Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese": Comments From Mudcat Discussion Forum & My Opinions & Recommendations

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision- August 18, 2023

This pancocojams post presents some comments from Mudcat Discussion Forum* about Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese". 

This post also shares my opinions about whether, when, and how these songs (and songs like them) should be sung.

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those whose examples are included in this post.
-snip-
This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series about this song. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/09/racially-derogatory-variants-of-old.html for the pancocojams post entitled "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese' Songs" Are Racially Derogatory Variants Of The Song "Old Shoe Boots And Leggings".

Also, click  https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/08/examples-of-crazy-baldheaded-chinese.html. for the pancocojams post entitled "Examples Of "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" Song That Include Contributors' Demographic Information".
-snip-
*Mudcat is an online international folk music forum. I was a member of Mudcat from 2004 to 2014. Almost all of the songs that are discussed on that forum are from Anglo-American and Anglo-European cultures. That forum also includes some discussion threads on certain types of Black American songs, on British and American children's rhymes, as well as a small amount of Caribbean folk songs. My main interest at Mudcat was English language children's recreational rhymes.

Both members and guests can post on Mudcat (i.e. add new discussion threads and/or comments to previous discussion threads). Almost all of the discussion threads are open to new comments regardless of how long ago those discussion threads were started.

****
COMMENTS FROM TWO MUDCAT DISCUSSION THREADS ABOUT THE SONGS "ONCE IN CHINA THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN" (or other titles for that song) AND  'THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE" 

Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.

A. https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6971

1.
Subject: RE: Lyrics requested ... Once in China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 09:23 AM

"From the TIME Magazine archive: (with formatting changed a bit by me)

"Chickery Chick

Dec. 3, 1945

 In the [18]70s, collegians at Amherst set the 100-year-old jingle to music and sang it over pots of ale, when they wanted to prove that they could walk a musical straight line. One of the many versions ran like this:

In China there lived a little man
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan,
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.
Chingery-rico-rico-day ekel tekel Happy man.
Kuan-a-desco cartty-o gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

Last week this old tongue twister, with new and even less intelligible lyrics, was the fast-climbing No. 2 seller in Billboard magazine's poll of record sales. It was well on its way to join Mairzy Doats and the Hut Sut Song in the jabberwocky Valhalla of the jukebox. Twenty-nine-year-old Arkansas-born Jo Proffitt had changed the Chinaman into a chick, and called it Chickery Chick. She sent the lyrics to Tin Pan Alleysmith Sidney Lippman, who added some new notes. Now it describes a chicken who got bored with saying "chick chick" all day, astounds his companions with some jived-up poultry poetry: Chickery-chick cha-la cha-la, Check-a-la-romey in a ba-nan-i-ka... .Tin Pan Alley actuarians estimate that the U.S. will need about three months to get over it.

-Copyright 1945 by Santly-Joy, Inc." "

**
2.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

"Under the Lilacs," Louisa May Alcott (see Joe Offer post, 26 Apr 05), was serialized in the children's "St. Nicholas Magazine." Chapter 21 with-

In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery Wangery Chan,-

appeared in vol. 5, no. 11, 5 Sept 1878.

This long-lived and popular children's magazine would ensure widespread disemination of the little rhyme."

**
3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Hugh
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM

"I remember a song I heard at summer camp in Canada in the 60s. Unthinkable that anyone would sing it now. Clearly of the same origin as many of the other songs mentioned here, but a little different....

"Once in China lived a man
Name was Chickeracka Chee Chi Cho
Arms were long and legs were short
Chinaman could walk nor snort."

And the chorus went something like:

"Hoke chickeracka cheek chickaloro
Bongo loro piggywiggy wango
Hoko poko hit 'im in the coco
Chitterbee chatterbee chee chi cho."

For some reason it really sticks in my head over 40 years later. In fact, I found this thread because it was running through my head today, so I googled "Once in China lived a man". Weird."

**
4.
Subject: Lyr. Add: Chingery Chan
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM

"Jim Dixon posted the first verse of this old Amherst song. Here is the entire song. Many versions and additions since it first appeared in the 1860's.

Lyr. Add: CHINGERY CHAN

1.

In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan;
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.

Chorus:

Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Happy man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

2.

Miss Sky-high she was short and squat;
She had money, which he had not;
To her he then resolved to go,
And play her a tune on his little banjo.

Chorus:

3.

Miss Sky-high heard his notes of love;
She held his wash-bowl up above;
She poured it on the little man,
And that was the end of Chingery-chan.

Chorus:

Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Injured man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

 

From the section on Songs of Amherst (E. C. Brayton), p. 178-179. No author cited.

H. R. Waite, Coll. and Ed., 1868, "Carmina Collegensia: A Complete Collection of the Songs of the American Colleges, with Piano-Forte Accompaniment. To Which Is Added a Compendium of College History." Oliver Ditson & Co. New York:-C. H. Ditson & Co"

**
5
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM

"The song was reprinted, without change, in the enlarged "Carmina Collegensia" of 1876."

**
6.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man
From: GUEST,R
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

"Wow! How cool that there is a website on this! My mom was a kindergarden teacher and taught me this song back in the early 70s. I loved it and made her sing it to me over and over and now I sing it to my son...he's only 5 months...unfortunately I won't be able to sing it once he understand and can repeat the words because it has now been deemed politically incorrect, but anyway...here is the version I know:

Once there was a China man
His name was Chicka chalu Chapan
His hair was short, his teeth were long
And this is the way he walked along,

Chicka chalu chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy, Chicka Challapy
Chicka Chalu, Chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy China Man

Alas this poor old man he died
And in his coffin did reside
They shipped him back to old Japan
And that was the end of the China Man

Chicka chalu chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy, Chicka Challapy
Chicka Chalu, Chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy China Man"

**
7.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 11:38 AM

"I do hope that "The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag" by Country Joe & the Fish has an equally long life as this politically incorrect ditty. The "Fish" song, in my opinion, has some redeeming value.

I would still hesitate to sing "Once in China there lived a man" to any general audience unless I first characterized it as an anti-Chinese song. And, yes, I can understand why it's so much fun to sing within the family but it is still a song of ethnic if not racial ridicule.

At least mull that over before passing it on to another generation."

**
8
Subject: Origins: Once in China there lived a little man.
From: GUEST,patchouliaison
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

"My great grandfather used to sing this song, and it's been handed down in the family. I find it entirely racist and have asked my parents to stop singing it to my baby. They, of course, we're horrified I would make this request. Basically, I'm trying to prove them wrong, that it is a quite offensive song. Any ideas on where it came from? The version we learned goes like this:"...
-snip-
This comment continues with the words to that version of the song. 

**
9.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:06 AM

"patchouliaison. I quite agree. I find this song racist and offensive and I woder why anyone would want to bother singing it.

Just for the record, there is a version on CD, but no, I'm not prepared to provide any details."

**
10.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:40 AM

"Has anybody here looked closely at the lyrics before jumping on the usual bandwagons?

I've just been looking through the original 5 verse version from c1836 and the full song is definitely about one person and in no way implies this person is in any way typical of any race, in fact quite the opposite. The song is vaguely 19th century comic and there's lots of nonsense employed particularly in the chorus. There is just one hint that it might be a proto-minstrel song. If there is any prejudice implied here might I suggest that it is one of mocking a disabled person?

However, I do agree that one wouldn't want to offend by singing the song in public simply for the reactions and false perceptions it might invoke.

In the early 19th century there were thousands of songs of a similar nature caricaturing the Irish or a fictional Irishman. Some of these stage songs eventually were adopted into the Irish traditional repertoire and are still sung today by the Irish. Is it fine for the Irish to sing them but nobody else? (A rhetorical question)"

**
11.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 04:59 PM

"This thread is a testament to what can be achieved by a forum such as Mudcat. For a researching folklorist it is a goldmine. A plethora of variants. can I just make my usual plea, if you post a version sung in your family or community can you please tell us where and when at least?

As for any racist allusions, it is worth reading Azizi's post somewhere in the middle."
-snip-
August 16, 2023  - Here's my statement about Steve Gardham's comment mentioning me (written on August 16, 2023 and posted here on pancocojams with any attempt to re-post it on Mudcat.)

I was a very active member of Mudcat from Sept 2004 to 2011 and was somewhat less active on Mudcat between 2012 to Nov 2014 when I voluntarily withdrew my membership from that forum (by stating that to that forum). When Steve Gardham wrote his comment referring to me in 2020 I hadn’t been active on Mudcat for around five or six years. (I don't recall reading that comment until I started working on this pancocojams post on August 15,2023).

After withdrawing my membership on Mudcat, I wrote a few comments on that folk music forum in 2015  as a guest (with the name GUEST, Azizi and not with any other name). At some point in 2015 I found out that the comments that I attempted to add to Mudcat discussion threads weren't showing up on that forum (without any error message or any other statement) so I stopped trying to post any information or comments on Mudcat.

[Update: August 17, 2023- I tried and successfully added a comment to the Mudcat discussion thread https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174&messages=43 about changing the problematic referent "Chinese" in the song "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" to the word "neighbor" changing that title and line to "The Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor". That comment that I added to that Mudcat discussion thread is the same as a portion of my editorial notes that are found in this pancocojams post. 
-end of August 17, 2023 Update]

The only comments that I wrote on that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" discussion thread  were three comments in 2007. Two of those comments were about how I was re-thinking my guess that the children's rhyme "Stella Ola Ola" came from Spanish sources after reading examples of the "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" song. My third post (comment) on that particular Mudcat discussion thread was welcoming a guest to Mudcat and commenting on his statement that it was weird that he remembered that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" song after forty years.
 
I still periodically visit Mudcat to read discussion threads and, as this pancocojams post demonstrates, a lot pancocojams posts include content from Mudcat discussion threads. 

I'm not sure what Steve Gardham's comment about me means. My guess is that his comment means that he thinks that a lot of my Mudcat posts were racist. I definitely don't agree with that.

As is the case with other members (and former members of that forum), anyone clicking on my name in any Mudcat thread would lead them to hyperlinked list of the dates and titles of all of my Mudcat comments. People can read those comments and judge for themselves whether they are racist or not. 

**
12.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 11:09 PM

"This is one of our earliest threads on "Chinaman" songs. And yes, it is still a f—king* racist song. And if you are more disturbed by the word "f—king*" than by the racism of this song, then maybe your head isn't screwed on right. I included the word "f—king*" as a test.

Mudcat is often criticized for allowing the posting of songs that are considered racist. But yet, Mudcat is a Website that studies folk songs, warts and all. It is not a site for cleaning up songs - "euphemization" is more-or-less anathema here. We post songs as they were originally sung, although we may clean them up a bit when we sing them.

But a song like this is pure racism, and can't be cleaned up like "The Cat Came Back" and "I've Been Working on the Railroad" or "Shortnin' Bread." This song is racist to the core. Sometimes, people will sing songs like this to illustrate the racism of the "Good Old Days," but songs like this should never be sung for enjoyment or entertainment. Songs like this may sound cute to some, but they're not. They're f—king* racist.

If you don't like the word "f—king*," get over it. If you're a racist, get over that, too.

Take a look at the Racist Songs** threads. We do not support racism in any way, but we do our best to report it accurately. There's a difference, although it may take a certain level of intelligence to understand that.

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor"
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.-

**This words are given as a hyperlink. Here’s that link: https://mudcat.org/threadgroup.cfm?threadgroupid=1694 Run Ni—er*** Run - Threads about racial stereotyping, offensive lyrics, coon songs, etc.

***This word is fully spelled out in this title.

I've decided to use amended spelling on pancocojams for the n word and for profanity because I'm aware that most public schools in the USA prohibit content with those words completely spelled out and I want to increase the possibilities of pancocojams being used as a supplement in those schools.

****

B. https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174

1.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 10:52 PM

"I am sick and tired of all this "Chinaman" crap.

It is all racist drivel.

OK, I get it: you all thought it was "cute" when you learned it. And you are nostalgic for the days when you didn't know any better.

Well, now you do know better. Or you ought to.

It is no longer cute. It is disgusting.

I propose all these "Chinaman" threads be closed immediately.

We already have more versions than anybody could possibly have the patience to read.

Give it a rest. Permanently."

**
2.  
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:54 PM

"Well, Jim, the message previous to yours has two verses not posted before. This thread has only 18 posts, so we really haven't exhausted the song. I'll admit that songs like this make me cringe, but I think they're the most recent true examples of the folk process, since they're not apt to be affected by publishing. Not many books are going to publish songs like this. Lingenfelter and Dwyer Songs of the West has a number of "Chinaman" songs, but that's about the only printed source I can think of. I share your disgust with this type of song, but I think it's essential to preserve them and worthwhile to see how many versions have developed.

I don't think people have done THIS song to death, but I can't figure out why so many people have posted to the Once in China thread. That thread has 218 posts, and has been going since 1998."

**
3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,betty
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:08 PM

"My mom taught it to me as a kid in the 90s.

My mother she told me to open the door
but I didn't wanna
I opened the door, he fell on the floor
the bald headed man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his coat
but I didn't wanna
took off his coat, he smelled like a goat
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his hat
but I didn't wanna
I took off his hat, he looked like a rat
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his shoes
but I didn't wanna
I took off his shoes, he sang the blues
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his pants
but I didn't wanna
I took off his pants, he started to dance
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his shirt
but I didn't wanna
I took off his shirt, he fell in the dirt
the bald head man from China

That's all I remember. I always wondered why my mom (born in the 60s) told me to undress a bald head man from China who showed up at my door"

**
4.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:12 PM

"My grandfather taught me this song back in the late 40's (it was Crazy Baldheaded Chinese). I would sing it at bedtime and it drove my parents nuts because I had to sing every verse I knew. Would take forever for me to finish - thus prolonging my bedtime. Great memory."

**
5.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:23 PM

"Does anyone remember the tune? Did it have it's own or was it from something else?

Looking back at some of the earlier posts - I serioulsy doubt that there was any intent to insult anyone with this song. No more so than say - This Little Piggy, etc. Children's songs don't have to do anything else but entertain. Young children have no bias. They only learn about bias from the adults and older children around them. Can't they just be silly without everyone worrying about offending someone or something?"...

**

6.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,BRoman
Date: 27 May 13 - 11:28 PM

"My grandmother sang this to me when I was a child. Our version is a little different, but as Ive been reading everyone seems to have different verses. To whom ever ridiculously blew their top over a children's song well it's stupid. Im sorry, but when I heard it as a child and even now to this day when I sing it to my children I do not think of it as racist nor do my children. It was a funny song that I remember growing up. Get over yourself. To everyone else thanks for the other versions I have thoroughly enjoyed reading and knowing that other people have had the pleasure of enjoying it as well."

**
7.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 May 13 - 10:17 PM

"I stand by my previous remarks."

**

8.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Crazy old woman from china
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 08:09 PM

"Lol Jim Dixon calm the f—k* down

its assholes like you who vote yes to ban soda

 

racism exists

it always has

and always will

 

as a child however who sang this

 

I was not racist - I was a f—king* kid enjoying a funny song"
-snip-
*These words are fully spelled out in this comment.

**
9.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,It's Just For Fun, That's All
Date: 27 May 17 - 11:27 AM

"Jim Dixon told me to close this thread,
But I didn't wanna.
I closed the thread, he filled me with lead,
The P.C. man from China."

 **
10.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 27 May 17 - 12:46 PM

"I think Patrick Sky should have included this song in his Songs That Made America Famous album, it would fit perfectly.

I'm so sick of all these Chinaman sh-t* that I actually enjoy its sickness. Could drive my fellow Chinamen nuts."
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

**
11.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:06 PM

"I heard this song performed in concert, probably in the 1980s, as "The Dirty Old Man from Fresno." (The performer had changed it to remove the anti-Chinese slur, which I fully approved of. It doesn't really matter to the song where the old man came from--it just needs two syllables. I kind of like the idea of replacing the placename with "Nowhere.") The performer also sang the English folksong it descended from, which I remember as "Old Shoes and Leggings." "

****

MY OPINIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT "IN CHINA THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN", "THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE" AND SIMILAR SONGS  
I'm aware that for some people "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" are nostalgic songs, but they are also anti-Chinese songs. 

I believe that songs like "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and/or songs like it shouldn't be taught in schools for entertainment or recreational purposes. However, I believe that "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and songs/rhymes like it (such as "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" should be presented as supplements to teaching about racism in the United States and elsewhere, and specifically about anti-Chinese actions, laws, and attitudes in the United States and elsewhere.

I'm aware that for some people have fond memories of the songs  "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese". However, there should be little doubt that those songs ridicule Chinese people. 

I therefore recommend replacing the words China and Chinese in those songs with another word. 

An anonymous commenter wrote in 2018 on the Mudcat folk music forum wrote that "I heard this song performed in concert, probably in the 1980s, as "The Dirty Old Man from Fresno." (The performer had changed it to remove the anti-Chinese slur, which I fully approved of. It doesn't really matter to the song where the old man came from--it just needs two syllables."...

That commenter also reminded people that the song "Old Shoes And Leggings" is probably the source song for "The Crazy Baldheaded  Chinese" ("The Crazy Man From China").

I'll add that that the song "Old Shoes And Leggings" is a Scottish song that dates from the 18th century. That song ridicules old men who are trying to court young women. The song "Old Shoes And Leggings" doesn't include the word "China" or "Chinese" and doesn't have any other racial, ethnic, or nationality references.

In the spirit of what that anonymous commenter wrote and closer to the spirit of that old Scottish song, my suggestion is that words "China" or "Chinese" be retired from the songs that are now known as "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and "The Crazy Old Man From China". Instead of those words, I recommend using the two syllable word "neighbor". As such, the title of "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" would be changed to "My Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor" and the title of "The Crazy Old Man From China" would be changed to "The Crazy Old Man, My Neighbor".

Corresponding to my 1950s childhood memories of this song, people would sing:
"My mother she told me to open the door
The little baldheaded neighbor bor bor
I opened the door. He fell on the floor
The little baldheaded neighbor bor bor"
-snip-

Or people could sing:
My mother she told me to open the door
But I didn't wanna

I opened the door. He fell on the floor
My crazy baldheaded neighbor.
-snip-
I believe that the word "neighbor" works pretty well as a replacement for the problematic word "Chinese" in that song because 1. the two syllable word "neighbor" isn't offensive and 2. the word 'neighbor"  somewhat explains why the mother told her child to open the door for that man who ended up doing those crazy things. 

People teaching the "The Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor" could use it as a way of reinforcing the lesson that children should not only be aware of "stranger danger" but should also be alert to the possibility that people they know might cause them harm. Therefore, regardless of who asks them, children should always refuse to do something they know isn't right or they feel isn't right. 

What do you think? I'm open to other suggestions besides the word "neighbor". The goal is to retire the offensive word and replace it with a word that isn't problematic. 

People replaced "the n word" in the "Eeny Meenie Miney Mo" counting out rhyme so successfully that few people even remember that derogatory term used to be a part of that rhyme. So substituting another word for an offensive word can be done if people choose to do it.

****

One reason why I think the song "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" is offensive is because the nonsense words in its chorus and verses were considered to be imitations of the way that non-Asians thought that Chinese people sounded when they spoke in their languages.

For example, here's an excerpt of the lyrics of one version of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man":
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUOfIdQ45Ck "Grammy: Chickety-Chickety Chan"
published by dinosaursareradical, Jun 12, 2012

"In Chinatown there lived a man
His name was Chickety-Chickety Chan
His feet were long and his toes were short
And this is the way the poor Chinamen talked

CHORUS:

Ooooh, chickety-chee chi-ly chi-lo
chickety-rummo inna-banana-wallya
wallya chi-na-key
inna-banana-ga-watchio"
-snip-
If the lyrics to these anti-Chinese songs were revised (cleaned up) and their racist versions weren't studied in schools/universities then some "history deniers" could claim that any anti-Chinese history ever happened in the USA and elsewhere.  

****
For the record (no pun intended), the tune that my sisters and I used for what we called "The Little Baldheaded Chinese" song closely fits the "Blow The Man Down" shanty (not that we knew that shanty when we were 7, 6, and 5 years old).

I should also mention that repeating the end of that word was the way that my sisters and I sung that song, but I haven't come across that pattern in any other examples of that song. I only suggest it because I remember it being  fun to do (Regardless of how much fun it may have been, our mother didn't allow us to sing that song again because she said it was "nasty").

****

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome. 

In Search Of Sources For "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Dilly Oso" Rhymes

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision - December 13, 2023.

This is Part II of a two part pancocojams series that traces the lightly competitive hand clapping game "Stella Ella Ola" (also known as "Quack Dilly Oso" and other titles) to folk processed forms of the chorus of the 1945 American novelty song "Chickery Chick".

Part II provides information, lyrics, and a video example of the 1945 hit novelty song "Chickery Chick". Part II also provides information, text examples, and one video each of "Stella Ella Ola" and "Quack Dilly Oso". Oso").

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/10/in-china-there-lives-great-man-sources.html for Part I of this series. Part I provides source information, text examples, and video examples of "In China There Lived A Great Man" (and other titles).

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural purposes, entertainment, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publishers of the videos that are included in this post.
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/12/the-real-direct-source-of-stella-ella.html "The REAL Source Of 'Stella Ella Ola" Rhymes: The Chorus Of The 1945 Novelty Song "Chickery Chick" " for a more concise pancocojams post about this subject.

****
PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE -Updated Nov. 6, 2023
I became aware of what I now call the "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Dilly Oso" family of children's hand clap rhymes in the 1990s and 2000s as a result of observing the recreational play of African American girls (sometimes joined by boys) around 7 - 12 years old years in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In the Pittsburgh neighborhood of East Liberty/Garfield where I live and where my daughter grew up and became an elementary school teacher, "Stella Ella Ola" rhymes were known as "Strolla Ola Ola" or "Slap Billy Ola",  "Quack Dilly Oso" was known as "Quack Diddley Oso".

Here's the words to "Strolla Ola Ola" that I remember hearing in Pittshburgh, Pennsylvania:
STROLLA OLA OLA
Strolla olla olla
Slap, slap, slap.
With ah "s" cheeka cheeka
cheeka cheeka flap jack.
Fah lay, fah lay,
fah lay, fah lay, fah lay
With ah 1- 2- 3- 4- 5.
-African American girls & boys (ages 6-12 years), Fort Pitt Elementary School, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; 10/2000 [This is the school in the East Liberty/Garfield area where my daughter taught for ten+ years. That school is no longer open.]
-snip-
"Strolla Ola Ola", "Stella Ella Ola" and other rhymes with similar names belong to the same family of handclap games. "Quack Dily Oso" also belongs to this same rhyme family.

**
Here's an example of "Stella Ella Ola" (as sung by my ten year old grand daughter (Nov. 6, 2023) :
Stella Ella Ola
slap jack slap jack
S chica chica
Chica Chica slap jack
Go slow go slow go slow
1,2, 3,4, 5

In 2001, I launched my (now no longer active) cocojams.com cultural website. That website was consistently online until October 2014. Most of the examples of children's recreational rhymes that were featured on that website were either submitted by visitors or gleaned from my online searchers. As a result, I realized that "Stella Ella Ola" or "Quack Dilly Oso" were the names that most people used to refer to a host of rhymes with similar structures and lyrics and which were chanted while playing lightly competitive group hand slapping games.

In 2004, I joined the online Mudcat folkloric music discussion forum, and was a very active member of that forum until 2009. My special interest in that forum were children's recreational rhymes and 19th African American religious and non-religious songs. In addition to presenting multiple examples of specific songs and rhymes, Mudcatters were (and still are) interested in determining or at least attempting to determine the source/s for those songs and rhymes. And some Mudcatters, like me, were (and probably still are) also interested in documenting how songs and rhymes remain the same or change during the same time and during different times among different populations.

All of this serves as background to my reactions in 2007 to a long running Mudcat discussion thread on the 19th century or older song "In China There Lived A Great Man". That song is the focus of Part I of this pancocojams series. Prior to reading song examples in that discussion thread, I had reached the tentative conclusion that some Spanish song or rhyme was the source of "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Dilly Oso" rhymes. I reached that conclusion because many of those rhymes contained the Spanish words such as "chica", "chico", "rico", "senorita" or some folk processed forms of those words. But I questioned that conclusion after reading song examples (and particularly the choruses of the songs) that were posted on that Mudcat discussion forum discussion thread of "In China There Lived A Great Man".

Here's my first comment on that discussion thread: (That comment was written in response to the example of "In China There Lived A Great Man" that had been posted right before it, and which included this chorus)
"Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Injured man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go."
-snip-
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6971
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:04 PM

"Chingery-rico-rico-day" ??!

Could "Once in China there lived a great man" be the source [or "a" source] for the children's handclap rhyme "Stella Ella Ola"?

If so, there goes my theory about "Stella Ella Ola's Spanish origin...

Here's an example of "Stella Ella Ola" for those who aren't familiar with it:

Subject: RE: Kids chant Stella Ola Ola / Stella Ella Ola
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 07 - 01:17 AM

wow, i'm surprised i found this...we used to sing it like this in the early 90s

Stella ella ola
clap clap clap
singin' es chico chico
chico chico cracker jack
es chico chico
falo falo
i gotta blow my nose
so, 1,2,3,4,5!

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=77066"

****
Here's the only response to my comment in that discussion thread- (The comment is from a participant in that discussion thread who went by the name of Q) 
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:48 PM

"I doubt a relationship. Chingery Chan was changed around by Louisa May Alcott; I think "Under The Lilacs," where she used it, (1878) is on line (also see the post by Joe up above.
There seem to be a number of these songs- children and the writers for them are inventive!

On the other hand-"
-snip-
I re-posted the same comment in that Mudcat "Stella Ella Ola" discussion thread which I started (see above link). However, I received no responses to that comment there either.
-snip-
Click http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3795/3795-h/3795-h.htm for a Project Gutenberg edition of Louisa May Alcott's 1878. The "In China There Lived A Great Man" example is given in Chapter 21.
-snip-
As somewhat of an aside, *Q (Frank Staplin) was the one who had informed me about that Mudcat folk music forum via an email that he sent to my cocojams.com website in 2004. Q also was the first person who included this information in that "In China There Lived A Great Man discussion thread about the 1945 American novelty song "Chickery Chick". If I'm not mistaken, there's only one other mention (to date) in that discussion thread about that "Chickery Chick" song.

But it wasn't until now (October 21, 2016) that my interest in determining the source or sources for "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Diddley Oso" songs was revived*.

I'm sharing my conclusions in this post that the main sources for "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Diddley Oso" rhymes are "Chickery Chick" and folk processed forms of "Chickery Chick"'s source song "In China There Lived A Great Man".
-snip-
My interest in determining the source or sources for Stella Ella Ola was revived IN 2016 because I happened to visit Mudcat (as I sometimes do) and saw that a new comment was posted to that rhyme's discussion thread that I started in 2005. Here's that comment:

"Subject: RE: Kids chant Stella Ola Ola / Stella Ella Ola
From: GUEST,Anon2
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 09:59 PM

I grew up in the greater Vancouver BC area, the version I learned was

Stella Stella Ola
Clap Clap Clap
Singing ess chiga chiga
Chiga chiga chap
Singing ess chiga chiga
Valo valo valo valo valo fire
1 2 3 4 5!

It's funny how it's so close but not identical to Anon's from Aug 2012.. though my version's nearly 20 years older than hers.

Anyone know the origin of this song/game?"
-snip-
Initially, I thought that "Stella Ella Ola" rhymes had a Spanish language origin. But I haven't found any examples of Spanish versions of these rhymes that originated in a Spanish language country/community (as opposed to being introduced to those populations.).

I now believe that the source for the large family of "Stella Ella Ola"/ "Quack Dilly Oso" rhymes (and other titles) is the chorus to the 1945 American novelty song "Chickery Chick" plus a great deal of folk processing (folk etymology; using oral tradition to change the words of songs/rhymes).

"Chickery Chick" is a re-working of the nonsense word filled choruses the 19th century or earlier racist (anti-Chinese) ridicule song "Chingery Chang" (also known as "Once In China There Lived A Great Man".) So "Chingery Chan" can also be said to be a source of the non-racist, nonsense word filled "Stella Ella Ola"/ "Quack Dilly Oso" rhymes.

****
INFORMATION ABOUT "CHICKERY CHICK"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Dee
"Sylvia Dee (born Josephine Moore Proffitt, October 22, 1914 – June 12, 1967) was an American lyricist and novelist best known for writing the lyrics to "Too Young", a hit for Nat King Cole, "The End of the World", a hit for Skeeter Davis and "Bring Me Sunshine". She also wrote songs for Elvis Presley in the films Blue Hawaii and Speedway. She was born in Little Rock, Arkansas.

She co-wrote "I Taught Him Everything He Knows" with Arthur Kent; this song was recorded by Ella Fitzgerald on her 1968 Capitol release Misty Blue. She was the lyricist for the 1947 Broadway musical Barefoot Boy with Cheek.

Dee wrote the words to a nonsense song that went to number 1 in 1945 called "Chickery Chick". The music was written by Sidney Lippman and it was played by Sammy Kaye's orchestra. Its nonsense lyrics included "Chickery chick, cha-la, cha-la"."...

****
LYRICS: "CHICKERY CHICK" LYRICS
(Sylvia Dee and Sid Lippman)

Once there lived a chicken who would say "chick-chick"
"Chick-chick" all day
Soon that chick got sick and tired of just "chick-chick"
So, one morning he started to say:

[Chorus]
"Chickery-chick, cha-la, cha-la
Check-a-la romey in a bananika
Bollika, wollika, can't you see
Chickery chick is me?"

Every time you're sick and tired of just the same old thing
Sayin' just the same old words all day
Be just like the chicken who found something new to sing
Open up your mouth and start to say
Oh!

[Chorus]"

From http://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/sammy+kaye/chickery+chick_20165481.html
-snip-
After reading the examples of "In China There Lived A Great Man" (and other titles) as found on the Mudcat discussion thread whose link is given above and as found elsewhere, I strongly believe that the chorus of the 1945 novelty hit song "Chickery Chick" is a re-working of the choruses of "In China There Lived A Great Man" without their problematic racial references.

I'm less certain about whether these two songs and the rhymes share the same or similar tunes. I'll leave that decision to someone who has a better musical ear than I do.

****
"CHICKERY CHICK" VIDEO: Chickery Chick by Sammy Kaye



beninski707, Uploaded on Jan 10, 2010

Here's an old 78 single that apparently topped the charts sometime in the 1940's. Chickery Chick by Sammy Kaye was the song. The wear on the record is evident as you hear it being played on an old console stereo with a Dual turntable. To all you people out there who know this and those who don't, enjoy!!
-snip-
Here are four comments from this sound file's discussion thread:
Peggy Dover, 2012
"Does anyone know if this song was also popular in the UK? My mom used to call my dad "Chickery" as a pet name. She sang this song."

**
Reply
Neil Murray, 2012
"Yes Peggy, this song was popular in Britain. It was the top selling song on sheet music from early March to late May in 1946 - with a one-week gap when Cruising Down the River was top for one week !"

** 
pedonbio, 2013
"This song was the Billboard #1 for three separate weeks in November and December, 1945." 

**
illiputlittle, 2016
"My mother always sang this song to me along with Mairzy Doats, Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo, and Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. I think her love of silly word songs fostered my love of words in general."

****
HOW "STELLA ELLA OLA"/"QUACK DILLY OSO" GAMES ARE PLAYED
"Stella Ella Ola" (and other titles such as "Quack Dilly Oso", "Strolla Ola Ola", and "Slap Billie Ola") is a hand slapping game that is played by a group of people standing (or, less often, sitting) in a circle. A designated starter slaps the hand of the person on her or his right while the group says the first word. That person slaps the hand of the person to her or his right while the group chants the next syllable. This continues with each syllable (or one syllable word) until the last syllable is chanted. The person whose hand is slapped on that last syllable is out. This continues until there are only two people remaining. Those two face each other and take turns slapping each other's hand while chanting the rhyme. The person whose hand is slapped at the end is "out" and the other person is the "winner".

****
A VIDEO OF "STELLA ELLA OLA" (with examples from that video's comment section)
Stella ella ola clap clap clap say yes chico chico



wadafera, Uploaded on Jul 20, 2008
jugando
-snip-
Read the comment in this pancocojams discussion thread from Chris about how adults in this video were volunteering in Nicaragua and taught this rhyme to the children. However, they learned that the children already knew a version of this rhyme  
-snip-
Examples of "Stella Ella Ola" from that video's discussion thread:
1. Lydia Dunn, 2010
"lol mines is
Stella Ella Ola Quack Quack Quack s chica chica chica chica slap jack falay falay falay falay falay with a 1, 2, 3...
lol mines is all wrong but this is what most of us say in Pittsburgh lol"

**
2. Colleen, 2010
"woah we did it such a different way at camp a few years back
Stella ella ola clap clap clap
sing it yes chiga, chiga, chiga chiga, chat chat
yes chiga chiga love love, love, love love 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
weird lol"

**
3. lydiad452, 2010
"lol mines is

Stella Ella Ola Quack Quack Quack s chica chica chica chica slap jack falay falay falay falay falay with a 1, 2, 3...

lol mines is all wrong but this is what most of us say in Pittsburgh lol"

**
4. "@lydiad452, 2011
"@Azizip17 lol i have a few friends from homewood (which is next to east liberty) that say it like that"
-snip-
Notice that this commenter mentioned my name in her reply to my comment. However, my comment (or comments) is/are no longer included in this discussion thread I believe my comment isn't included probably because I may have included a link to my (then active) cocojams.com website- something that either wasn't allowed by that YouTube channel's owner or by the YouTube administrator at that time. (It's allowed now, but I didn't try to add any other comments to this video's discussion thread since in Feb 2019 almost all discussion threads for YouTube videos including children were deleted and are no longer permitted. Some discussion threads- like this one-are still shown- and I don't want to risk its deletion. 

**
5. Caroline Burg, 2012
"Mine is Stella elle ola teega teega shack shack singing cola cola cola cola cola"

**
6. kkboo nyslome,2012
"mine was
Quack didly o so quack quack quack
from San toritsa ur momma smells like pizza so give it to ur teacher fah lo fah lo fah lo fah lo fah lo 123456789 ...10!"
-snip-
Notice that this example of "Quack Didly Oso" is in the discussion thread for a "Stella Ella Ola" video.

**
7. Jacqueline romans, 2013
"mine is stella ella ola clap clap clap sey it ess chico chico, blow blow, the toilet overflows say it 12345678910"

**
8. RaeKayz, 2013
"Ha, we do it differently!
Stella Ella Ola Quack Quack Quack
Say yes chico, chico, chico, chico, chat
Say yes chico, chico, below, below
The toilet overflows
So, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10!"
-snip-
The "Quack Quack Quack" in this example may explain the first word in the "Quack Didley Oso" rhymes. Notice also "chat" in that example. "Quack Quack Quack" is also given "Clap Clap Clap", "Shack Shack Shack", "Chat Chat Chat" etc. in some other examples from this rhyme family. But where did the words (names?) "Stella Ella Ola" come from?

**
9. Singing turtle forever
"stella ella ola chap chap chap singing s chico chico, chico chico cracker jacker s chico chico bologna bologna with cheese and macaroni fire 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10: thats how we sing it and on 10 you have to pull your hands away"

**
10. Beerwoman!, 2016
"Stella stella ola clap clap clap, singing es cheego cheego, cheega cheega chap, singing ess cheega chee-ga, val-o, val-o, say 1, 2, 3, 4, 5! - 90's, Vancouver BC"

Beerwoman!, 2016
"+Beerwoman! And it always ended on 5! That's the loser, five."

**
11. Ava Fountain, 2016
"The one I do is stella ola ola clap clap clap singing s Chica chica chica chica chap s chica chica blow blow blow your nose and 12345"

**
12. missmelodies52, 2016
"Stella ella ola clap clap clap singing es chico chico, chico chico chap, singing es chico chico aloa, aloa, aloa, loa loa 1 2 3 4 5!"

****

A VIDEO OF "QUACK DIDDLEY OSO" (with examples from that video's comment section)

Quack Diddly O' So



TiDoSTAR, Uploaded on Feb 10, 2007

Greese cast party
-snip-
This video documents the use (since at least the early 2000s) by teens and young adults of certain types of formerly children's (and mostly girls only) hand clap rhymes for fun and as stress reducers. Rhymes such as "Quack Diddley Oso" (also known as "Quack Dilly Oso", "Stella Ella Ola", and other names) and "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" (and similar titles) are chanted by groups while playing lightly competitive hand slap games.

Here are some examples of this rhyme from this video's discussion thread (given in chronological order with the oldest year given first; numbers are assigned for referencing purposes only:
1. Matthew Austin, 2007
"Quack Diddy oh so
Quack quack quack
Santa Rita
Rita rita rita
Fill-o Fill-o
Fill-o fill-o fill-o
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10"

**
2. Delaney Pierson, 2010
"quack diddly oso
quack quack quack
singing sam a rico rico rico rico
flora flora flora flora flora
1234"

**
3. Divine, 2013
"Quack a Didly o'so
Quack quack quack
Senorita your mama smells like pizza
Delora Delora i'll kick you out the door-a
Say 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10"

**
4. AmethystSoldier, 2013
"I love all of these variations!!! At my school, it was Quack dilly esta quack quack quack boom senorita rita rita rita Lavora Lavora Vora Vora 1234."

**
5. Tepimatsu-san-matsuno, 2013
"quack diddly o so
quack quack quack
from santa rico
rico rico rico
flordia flordia
florida florida florida
1234"

**
6. MakeupForever Kay, 2015
"Quack delioso quack quack quack hit it senorita your mother smell like pizza felloa felloa felloa lloa lloa hit it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 !"

**
7. schumache101, 2016
"Quack diddly oso quack, quack, quack, singing San Marico Rico, Rico, Rico Rico, flora, flora, flora flora flora, 1 2 3 4"

****
Click http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=77066#1370542" for more examples of "Stella Ella Ola"/Quack Didley Oso" rhymes. Also, click the tags given below for more examples of "Stella Ella Ola" and "Quack Diddley Oso" rhymes on pancocojams.

****
This concludes Part II of this two part series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

"Once In China There Lived A Great Man" (Sources, Text Examples, & Video Example)

Edited by Azizi Powell

Update: 10/23/2016 10:34 P.M.

This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series that traces the lightly competitive hand clapping game "Stella Ella Ola" (also known as "Quack Dilly Oso" and other titles) to the 1945 American novelty song "Chickery Chick" and that song's source - the 19th century or earlier song "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" (and other titles).

Part I provides source information, text examples, and video examples of "In China There Lived A Great Man" (and other titles).

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/10/in-search-of-sources-for-stella-ella.html for Part II of this series. Part II provides information, lyrics, and a video example of the 1945 hit novelty song "Chickery Chick". Part II also provides information, a few text examples, and two video examples of "Stella Ella Ola" and "Quack Dilly Oso".

The content of this post is presented for folkloric and cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publisher of the video that is included in this post.
-snip-
I'm publishing this post on this blog because of my interest in English language folk songs. Pancocojams usually highlights music, dance, vernacular terms, and other cultural aspects of African Americans and other Black people around the world. Publishing this post here doesn't mean that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" has anything directly to do with Black cultures.

****
PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
It's my position (and the position of some other people) that, in spite of the nostalgic appeal that it has for many people, "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" (also known as "Chingery Chan" and other titles) is an example of many 19th century English language songs that ridicule Chinese people. For example, an early title for this song was "The China Man With His Monkey Nose". Furthermore, the nonsense words in the chorus and other lyrics in many versions of that song ridicule the way some non-Chinese people thought that Chinese talked. Also, knowingly or unknowingly, some versions of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" conflate the native land of a Chinese man with Japan, thus reinforcing the view that all Asians are the same.

These quoted comments given below are from a discussion thread on the Mudcat folk music forum entitled "Lyrics requested ... Once in China There Lived A Great Man" That discussion thread began in 1998, but all but one of its comments are from 2005 to 2015. (as of the date & time of this post). Some of those comments trace this song to 19th century or earlier England. Note that this is just one of several Mudcat discussion threads on this song.

It should also be noted that these selected comments are just a small portion of the examples of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" which knowingly or unknowingly contain racist references that were posted to that Mudcat discussion thread by that forum's members and guests.

Part II of this series focuses in part on the 1945 American hit novelty song "Chickery Chick" and in part on the hand clap (hand slap) rhyme "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Dilly Oso". I believe that "Chickery Chick" is a re-worked version of the 19th century or earlier anti-Chinese song "Chingery Chang" (also known as "Once In China There Lived A Great Man".) Not only does the title of "Chickery Chick" begin with the same letters as "Chingery Chan", but its chorus filled with nonsense words mimics the choruses of most versions of that 19th century song that I have read.

"Chingery Chan"/"Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "Chickery Chick"(along with a great deal of folk processing) also appear to me to be sources of "Stella Ella Ola"/ "Quack Dilly Oso" hand clap rhymes.

A video rendition of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" is given in this post and video examples of "Chickery Chick" and "Stella Ella Ola"/"Quack Diddley Oso" are given in Part II of this series. Hopefully those people who have a better ear for music than me can share if they detect any similarities between these the tunes for these songs/rhymes.

****
SELECTED COMMENTS AND TEXT EXAMPLES
Pancocojams Editor:
All of these quotes are from http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6971 "Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man..." There are a total of 261 posts (comments) to date in that discussion thread.

I've selected comments that present the purported original version of "Chingery Chan" ("Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and early versions of this song. I've also selected comments that present more recent (20th century) examples of this song. And I have included comments -including a comment that I wrote on this discussion thread in 2009 -that address the anti-Chinese nature of these songs.

These comments are given in chronological order based on their publishing dates in that particular Mudcat forum's discussion thread.

I've assigned numbers to these comments/examples for referencing purposes only, I've also added a few brief comments after the "snip" (end of quote) notation.

1. Subject: RE: Lyrics requested ... Once in China
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:13 PM

"I'm guessing it's one of those songs from the late 19th century that made fun of Chinese immigrants to the U.S. You'll find a number of songs like that if you use our Filter and look for "china" (set the age back) - or click here*


I did find this on a Google search: [hyperlinked site no longer active]
once long ago, there lived a funny man.
his name was icka rocka icka rocka ran.
his legs were long as his feet were small.
and he couldn't walk at all.

EENY MEENY MING MONG PING PONG CHOW!
EASY VEASY VACKA LEASY, EASY VEASY VOW!
EENY MEENY MACKA RACKA RAY RI
CHICKA RACKA DOMINACKA
LOLLIPOPPA OM POM PUSH!"
-snip-
The word "here" is hyperlinked. The link leads to a list of Mudcat discussion threads for English language songs that make fun of Chinese people http://mudcat.org/?Title=china&age=25000 http://mudcat.org/?Title=china&age=25000."
-snip-
My guess is this is a mid 20th century folk processed example of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man". The chorus in that example is very similar to a rhyme found on http://kevanbundell.co.uk/blog/2014/10/22/eeny-meeny-miney-moe-eeny-meeny-macka-racka/ "Eeny meeny miney moe, eeny meeny macka racka" by Kevan Bundell, October 22, 2014. The author of that article describes "eenie meenie macka racka" as "Chinese counting" (i.e. mimicking the words or sounds that non-Chinese people thought that Chinese people made when they counted)

"Eeny meeny macka racka
Ooray dominacker
Dominacker chikaracker
Om pom push!"

****
2. From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Apr 05 - 03:29 PM

"It also comes up in the writings of Louisa May Alcott, from Under the Lilacs, Chapter 21:*

Few of the children had ever seen the immortal Punch and Judy, so this was a most agreeable novelty, and before they could make out what it meant, a voice began to sing, so distinctly that every word was heard,--

"In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery Wangery Chan."
-snip-
The title "Under The Lilacs" is given as a hyperlink. That hyperlink eventually leads to Project Gutenberg edition of Louisa May Alcott's 1878. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3795/3795-h/3795-h.htm

****
3. From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM

"Jim Dixon posted the first verse of this old Amherst song. Here is the entire song. Many versions and additions since it first appeared in the 1860's.

Lyr. Add: CHINGERY CHAN

1.
In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan;
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.

Chorus:
Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Happy man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

2.
Miss Sky-high she was short and squat;
She had money, which he had not;
To her he then resolved to go,
And play her a tune on his little banjo.

Chorus:

3.
Miss Sky-high heard his notes of love;
She held his wash-bowl up above;
She poured it on the little man,
And that was the end of Chingery-chan.

Chorus:
Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Injured man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

From the section on Songs of Amherst (E. C. Brayton), p. 178-179. No author cited.
H. R. Waite, Coll. and Ed., 1868, "Carmina Collegensia: A Complete Collection of the Songs of the American Colleges, with Piano-Forte Accompaniment. To Which Is Added a Compendium of College History." Oliver Ditson & Co. New York:-C. H. Ditson & Co."

****
4. From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM

"The song was reprinted, without change, in the enlarged "Carmina Collegensia" of 1876."

****
5. From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 11:38 AM

"I do hope that "The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag" by Country Joe & the Fish has an equally long life as this politically incorrect ditty. The "Fish" song, in my opinion, has some redeeming value.

I would still hesitate to sing "Once in China there lived a man" to any general audience unless I first characterized it as an anti-Chinese song. And, yes, I can understand why it's so much fun to sing within the family but it is still a song of ethnic if not racial ridicule.

At least mull that over before passing it on to another generation.

Charley Noble"

****
6. From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 06:08 PM

"In Chinatown there lived a man
His name was Chickety-Chickety Chan
His feet were long and his toes were short
And this is the way the poor Chinamen talked

CHORUS:
Ooooh, chickety-chee chi-ly chi-lo
chickety-rummo inna-banana-wallya
wallya chi-na-key
inna-banana-ga-watchio

This chinaman had plenty of wealth and
lived in a mansion all by himself the
people got good and bought him a boat
and sent the poor china man off to float

Ooooh, chickety-chee chi-ly chi-lo
chickety-rummo inna-banana-wallya
wallya chi-na-key
inna-banana-ga-watchio

This Chinaman, finely died
and in his coffin he deny
they shipped him back to old Japan
and that was the end of the poor Chinaman"

****
7. From: GUEST,Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:44 PM
"Hi,
This thread has been running for 3 years now and nobody has bothered to post the original. What a wonderful collection of variants though!

I'd be interested to know if they all go to the same tune. My parents sang their version to the ubiquitous first strain of 'In and out the windows'/'So early in the morning'/'Blue-tail fly' etc.
I'd say it dates at least from 1840 if not earlier as the earliest printer on broadside I have record of is John Pitts of 7 Dials London and he was in business before 1800. The usual title is 'Chinaman with a/the/his Monkey Nose'

This is the version printed by Bebbington of Manchester c1850

In China once there dwelt a great man
His name was Chick-a-chack-tan-ran-tan,
His legs were long and his feet so small
this Chinaman couldn't walk at all,
His servants used to carry him out,
Upon their backs, and the folks would shout,
O, lookee here comes!'--oh, dere he goes!
'The Chinaman with a Monkey Nose.

So Chickara-Choo-Chi-Cho-Chut-La
Chokolo roonee, ning o ping nang,
Padoger was dusta canta kee,
Gunnee po hutto pi China coo!

There are 4 more double verses


Looking at line 7 above I would guess it originated as an early solo minstrel-type song. It predates the Virginia Minstrels but there were plenty of solo blackface performers in Britain even back as far as the 18thc."
-snip-
I've added italics to highlight this sentence.

**
8. From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:13 AM

"Nobody has bothered to post the original"! Please, Mr. Gardham, you do us an injustice! You imply that we knew where to find the original, or that the original would have been easily found! I assure you, there is no lack of diligent searchers at Mudcat, but once in a while, we search and we fail to find.

I see now that The Bodleian Library collection of ballads has 7 versions of songs beginning "In China once there dwelt a great man" but none of them was printed by Bebbington of Manchester. Where did you find yours?

Here's the Pitts version, catalogued as Harding B 11(1415):

THE CHINA MAN WITH HIS MONKEY NOSE.

In China once there dwelt a great man.
His name was Chick-chack-tan-a-ran-tan.
His legs were long and his feet so small,
This China man couldn't walk at all.
His servants used to carry him out,
Upon their backs, and the folks would shout,
'O, lookee here comes'--'Oh, dere he goes!
The China man with his Monkey Nose.

So Chickara-Choo-Chi-Cho-Chut-la
Chockolo roonee, ning o ping nang,
Padoger wa dusta canta kee,
Gunnee po hottee pi China coo.'

This China man had plenty of pelf.
He liv'd in a mansion by himself,
And next door was his servant's abode.
Now was not that a singular mode?
Two men he hired to carry him out,
But they turn'd out to be robbers stout.
He paid them well, and gave them clothes,
The China man with his Monkey Nose.
So Chickara, &c.

One day this China man fell in love,
And fancied, he said, miss Telto Dove;
So one of his servants carried him quick.
The other bent forward with a stick.
On a two legg'd horse, he look'd such a gill.
They took him some miles and stopt on a hill,
Then into a ditch the robber throws
The China man with his Monkey Nose.
So Chickara, &c.

Some China ladies then from the town
Ran up the hill and roll'd him down
From top to bottom. They then began
To tickle and play with the China man.
From him they most took all his breath,
For they nearly kissed this man to death.
At any rate, they all stopp'd his woes,
The China man with his Monkey Nose.
So Chickara, &c.

These Chinese ladies, so fine and gay,
Resolv'd to carry him home next day;
So safe at his house they reach'd once more
With all the ladies, and lock'd the door.
The robbers plunder'd his house entire,
Then set the ladies and him on fire.
All in the house had a fire repose,
The China man and his Monkey Nose.
So Chickara, &c."

**
9. From: GUEST,Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 06:58 PM

"Sorry, Jim.
Didn't mean to be rude or clever.
The Bebbington/Pearson version is In Manchester Central Library.
I didn't bother noting down the Bodl versions cos I already had lots of versions. I have records of the following printers printing it in addition to Bebbington/Pearson no386 which is also in the Baring Gould BL collection.
Sanderson, Edinburgh
Poet's Box, Glasgow.
Hodges/Ryle/Such, London probably all derived from your Pitts version
Booth, Hyde

The Roud Index probably gives more."

****
10. From: GUEST,Mad
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 04:05 PM

"The version I learned from my grandmother goes like this:

Once there was a Chineseman
His name was Chikka Rakka Chi Chai Cho
His feet were long and his arms were short
This Chinese man couldn't walk nor talk

Chikka Rakka Chi Chai Cho chikalera
Bungalera piggy wiggy waggle
Ogo pogo anna banna coco
Cheraby cheraby chi chai cho

This Chinese man, he had a wife
And oh, they lived a terrible life
She cut off his pigtail, it was too long
And sold it for a Chinese song

Chikka Rakka Chi Chai Cho chikalera
Bungalera piggy wiggy waggle
Ogo pogo ana bana coco
Cheraby cheraby chi chai cho

It was always accompanied by a lot of clapping. I always thought she had made it up, so I'm happy to know that there are other people out there with their own versions of it. Makes me feel less crazy somehow :)"

****
11. From: GUEST,Bess
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 11:54 AM

"Holy cow, I had no idea that there were so many versions of this song. I learned this from my Quaker Liberal relatives who are now embarrassed to sing it because of it's racist overtones!

Chinkety Chinkety Chan

In Chinatown there lived a man
His name was Chinkety Chinkety Chan
His feet were long and his toes were short
And this is the way the poor Chinaman talked:

Ohhhhhhhhhh-
Chinkety-chee Cha-lye Cha-lo
Chinkety Romeo in a banana-ga
Wallika wallika chanikee
In a bannana-ga
WAH-chee-yow!"

****
12. From: GUEST,Guest33
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:00 PM

"I'm glad I found this thread! I've had this song stuck in my head. My mom was from Hammond/Chicago, and grew up in the 1930s. She sang a lot of silly war songs (The coffee in the Army...) and ethnic ditties of a sort that is not considered funny today (Snowball). Another Guest gave us a variant that is very close to what she would sing. I remember the tune, by the way, which doesn't seem to be part of the discussion. The glaring ignorance of geography was part of the joke.

Anyway, here's what our earlier Guest posted, with my mom's variant in CAPS:

A CHINAMAN FROM OLD JAPAN

and this is the way the Chinaman floats:

Chingaling chee, chi li, chi lo,
chingaling wallaga, in the bananaga,
wallaga, wallaga, CHAN OF THE SEA,
CHINGLAING CHAN WAS HE.

AT LENGTH Chinaman did die,
and in his coffin he did lie;
they sent him back to Old Japan,
and this is the way his epitaph ran..."

****
13. Azizi
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:50 PM

"For those who may be interested, here is an excerpt from a comment from another Mudcat thread about these types of songs:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,A proud Asian American - PM
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:01 PM

"Why would anyone want to continue a tradition such as this, a tradition that degrades an entire race of people? For what point and purpose? How would you feel if your people were subjected to such vile degradation, disrespect and hatred?

You really should think things through before you decide to pursue a topic.

And anyone who has ever uttered such filthy words for fun and amusement needs to do some serious soul-searching..."

-snip-

I realize that singing this song is a family tradition for some people. I also realize that a number of people are nostalgic about this songs because it reminds them of their childhood and of their parents and grandparents who may be gone.

I believe that there is some merit in documenting the variants and engaging in other folkloric study of these songs. However, I'm concerned about passing on to another generation this song and other songs like it because it ridicules a race or a nationality of people.

These comments may not make any difference to those who think these songs are just fun. But I hope people think about these points before they teach these songs to their children and to other children."

****
14. Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great ma
From: GUEST,Chris Brierley
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 02:40 PM

"A few thoughts for Azizi

This is a song about an anonymous person. It was probably fiction at the time. I think you are an idiot berating people for recalling their memories on this forum.

The song does not "degrade an entire race of people" however I could make a few comments about those funny yellow rice munchers if you like?"

****
15. From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 11:05 AM

"My mum used to sing this playground clapping song when she was a little girl in the 30's in the playground or in the streets of Bristol when there was not much traffic and relatively safe!

In China once there lived a great man,
His name was chikerocka choo chi pan
His legs were long and his feet were small
This little Chinaman couldn't walk at all

Chickerocka chickerocka cho chiker orum
Condo romum acki paki wak
Oko koko hit him on the boko
Ikipie ikipie okoko

My mum's younger sister, although a few years younger had a slightly different version although basically the same. Funny how things alter in a few years. When I was a little girl I knew the Eenie Meenie one that is mentioned right at the top as a playground clapping song. Irish comedian Frank Carson did a version of Eenie Meenie Macarraca and it did get into the UK hit parade I think it was at the end of the 70's or early 80's."

****
16. From: GUEST,Interested Party
Date: 21 Sep 10 - 04:27 AM

"I thought it was a cheer. My father recited it as:

"Rah-rah chicorah, chicorah rooney.
Rooney, rooney, ping pang pooney--
Palla-walla wah,
sing Chinee Ching!"

(Not very P.C.!)

It sounds like a cheer for football games--it has a kind of rhythm, and "Rah-rah", after all."

****
17. From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 06:36 PM

"My Mom's version was a little different but must be from the same original. It goes

Once in Japan there lived a man name Hiko-chiko-chickery-chan, Hiko Chiko chinaman, Wadame Kadame dusty-o willapy wallapy chineo.

One day the people of the town went up and brought the Chinaman down. Then the Chinaman he died and all the people for him cried.

And that was the end of Hiko-Chiko-Chickery-Chan, Hiko Chiko Chinaman, Wadame Kadame Dusty-o Willapy Wallapy Chineo."

****
18. From: GUEST,jhkinghill Reading UK
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:01 AM

"My Dad used to sing this--he learnt it from his mother and thinks she learnt it from her parents, so we are going back to mid-late 19thC Lancashire:
Once in China there lived a great man
and his name was Chicker-ricker-rookington
his legs were long but his feet were small
so that Chinaman couldn't walk at all
CHORUS: Soooooo--chicker-ricker-roo chy cho chucka-larum
Scandal-arum is a peg man
Cargo too-go is a giz gaz go
is a peg nay go
is a peg man
Cheero cheero chuck chucka largo is despatched in China
here he comes and here he goes
the Chinaman with a monkey's nose

Two smart men they carried him about
the people did laugh and the people did shout
they took him to the top of the hill
and rolled him down like a rolling pin (sometimes changed to 'beechams pill'by my mother, an English teacher and purist about rhyme
CHORUS repeated

I've never found anyone before outside of our family who had the remotest idea about this song, which we figured must have come into the family from trips to the old music halls--unless anyone knows of any sheet music for it?"

****
19. From: GUEST,canada
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:52 PM

"Hi, my dad who is from Lancashire and sang this song to us along with I'm a wee melody man but the way I remember is this way:

In China once there lived a man
His name was Chika-Racka-Chee-Chi-Chan
His head was big and his feet were small
And this poor Chinaman couldn't walk at all

Chika-Raka-chee-chi
Choo Cock-a-lorum
Cando, lorum, ninny pinny nap
Cat go, you go, etty cotty kitty ko
Ditty pie, Ditty pie, Chika-Rack-Chee-Chi


Talk about not being politically correct! But I'm in my early 60's and I remember this; that little golliwog from the jam jar lids and I had a book about ten little Ni***r boys sitting in the sun."
-snip-
This comment is given as it was published in that discussion thread.

****
20.[added to this pancocojams post 10/23/2016 12:39 AM.]
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 12 - 12:14 PM

"What an interesting thread. I heard this song from my grandfather, though never was sure if he picked it up during the war or as a schoolboy in London.

Unfortunately he used different verses that I don't see here.
There was one about 'combed his hair with a knife and fork' or something to that effect. The first verse ended with 'couldn't walk or talk' with 'talk' rhyming perfectly with short because of his accent.

The only verse I remember, which I always thought was the best, was the last one which I don't see here:

"They took him up in an aeroplane
And told him not too bash his brain
The word was said and he fell on his head
and that was the end of the Chineseman"

As far as the concerns on the board about the racist nature of this song goes, I don't think there is any risk that teaching this song will promote racist attitudes. It's just a fun look into the attitudes that prevailed back then.
Case in point: I heard that song all the time growing up, but it didn't stop me from learning Chinese, spending time in China, having Chinese friends, and dating Chinese women. It's a fantastic culture, that I greatly admire, but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying this ridiculous song."

****
21. From: GUEST,patchouliaison
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

"My great grandfather used to sing this song, and it's been handed down in the family. I find it entirely racist and have asked my parents to stop singing it to my baby. They, of course, we're horrified I would make this request. Basically, I'm trying to prove them wrong, that it is a quite offensive song. Any ideas on where it came from? The version we learned goes like this:

Once in China there lived a little man.
His name was Ching-a-ling-Ching-a-ling-Ching.
His legs were short and his feet were small,
And this little man couldn't walk at all.

Ching-a-ling-Ching-a-ling-Ching-a-ling-Ching,
Ride all day oh happy man.
You no fishy-go, shorty-o.
He wept and he wept in Chin-e-o.

Thanks for any tips on its origin!"

****
22. From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:06 AM

"patchouliaison. I quite agree. I find this song racist and offensive and I woder why anyone would want to bother singing it.

Just for the record, there is a version on CD, but no, I'm not prepared to provide any details."

****
23. From: GUEST,Kittymama
Date: 01 May 15 - 06:07 PM

"It's racist and offensive (for those who are collecting support for that position, patchouliason). We sing it privately, because it makes us think of our late mother, but we know better than to sing it in front of people. Which makes it sound as though we have a private little racist club, but, sigh, it is what it is. At least we've protected succeeding generations."
-snip-
This is the last comment to date in that Mudcat discussion thread.

****
VIDEO EXAMPLE: Once In China



keyshop41 Published on Nov 17, 2013

I was taught this song by my Mother when I was a child, she was taught this song by her Mother when she was a child. I have no idea how her mother learn it. I have always thought it was a fun song since I was a kid. I had decided to try to find out about it recently and found that many people knew about the song and were searching for it but were asking if anyone had a complete version. Some of the missing lyrics seemed to be be those which I know from my mother's version. Many people who searched for the song knew slightly different words than that which I knew but no one had posted a complete version of the song anywhere and no one had a video or sound bit posted to hear how their version of the words went. So, using my memory as best I could I decided to put the song onto a video and made up the chords to follow the tune that I was taught as a kid. I also decided to just do the lyrics that I was taught when I was a kid. When trying to find the song I discovered that many people knew the song as Once In China. The opening line of my version is, "In China once there lived a great man..." Maybe the opening line should be, "Once in China there lived a great man...." A little bit of a difference but since I was never told what the name of the song was by Mother maybe this is true? So,since so many people seem to be searching for a song named Once In China, this is my version of "Once In China."

I don't speak any dialect of Chinese so if I'm saying something offensive I apologize. This was not meant to be against anyone, I'm just doing a song that I was taught as a kid that it sounds like many other people have searched for.
-snip-
This example documents the tune (or a tune?) for the song "In China There Lives A Great Man" (or other titles).

****
This concludes Part I of this two part series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.