Timeline For "___ Went To Town" Or "I Went Downtown To See ___" Verses In American Folk Songs & Children's Recreational Rhymes

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post provides a timeline and some examples of American (United States) folk songs and children's recreational rhymes with a "__ Went To Town" or an "I Went Downtown To See ___") verse. 

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, cultural, entertainment, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composers of these songs and rhymes. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

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LINKS TO THREE CLOSELY RELATED PANCOCOJAMS POSTS 

Old Dan Tucker - Minstrel Song & Play Party Song

 https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/12/old-dan-tucker-minstrel-song-play-party.html

December 16, 2013

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Multiple Examples Of The Children's Rhyme "I Went Downtown" ("To See Charlie Brown" or "To See James Brown")

https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/01/multiple-examples-of-childrens-rhyme-i.html?sc=1763026021466

 January 4, 2017

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Some Examples Of "Ride The Horsey" Babies' & Young Children's Knee Bouncing Rhymes That Are Derived From A Verse In The 19th Century Song "Old Dan Tucker"

https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/11/some-examples-of-ride-horsey-knee.html
-snip-
Note: This post focuses on some examples of knee bouncing rhymes that are derived from a verse of the "Old Dan Tucker" folk song.

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TIMELINE, INFORMATION, AND EXAMPLES

around 1755- Yankee Doodle (also known as "Yankee Doodle Went To Town")
information from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Doodle
"Yankee Doodle" is a traditional song and nursery rhyme, the early versions of which predate the Seven Years' War and American Revolutionary War.[1] It is often sung patriotically in the United States today. It is the state song of the U.S. state of Connecticut.[2] Its Roud Folk Song Index number is 4501...

In British conversation, the term "Yankee doodle dandy" implied unsophisticated misappropriation of upper-class fashion, as though simply sticking a feather in one's cap would transform the wearer into a noble.

[...]

The song was a pre-Revolutionary War song originally sung by British military officers to mock the disheveled, disorganized colonial "Yankees" with whom they served in the French and Indian War. It was written at Fort Crailo around 1755 by British Army surgeon Richard Shuckburgh while campaigning in Rensselaer, New York.[15] The British troops sang it to mock American soldiers as simpletons who thought that they were stylish simply by sticking a feather in their hats.[1] It was also embraced by American troops, who added verses to it that mocked the British and hailed George Washington. By 1781, "Yankee Doodle" had become a song of national pride among Americans.[1][16][17]"...

An example of "went to town" verse in this song:
"Yankee Doodle went to town
A' ridin on a pony
He stuck a feather in his cap
And called it macaroni"

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1843- "Old Dan Tucker"
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dan_Tucker
"Old Dan Tucker", also known as "Ole Dan Tucker", "Dan Tucker", and other variants, is a popular American song. Its origins remain obscure; the tune may have come from oral tradition, and the words may have been written by songwriter and performer Dan Emmett. The blackface troupe the Virginia Minstrels popularized "Old Dan Tucker" in 1843, and it quickly became a minstrel hit, behind only "Miss Lucy Long" and "Mary Blane" in popularity during the antebellum period...

The first sheet music edition of "Old Dan Tucker", published in 1843, is a song of boasts and nonsense in the vein of previous minstrel hits such as "Jump Jim Crow" and "Gumbo Chaff". In exaggerated Black Vernacular English, the lyrics tell of Dan Tucker's exploits in a strange town, where he fights, gets drunk, overeats, and breaks other social taboos. Minstrel troupes freely added and removed verses, and folk singers have since added hundreds more. Parodies and political versions are also known"... 
-snip-
Early versions of "Old Dan Tucker" include verses with what is now commonly referred to as "the n word".  

Examples of "went to town" verses in the "Old Dan Tucker" song:

Old Dan Tucker down in town,
A-ridin' a goat and leadin' a hound,
The hound gives a howl an' the goat gives a jump,
An' throwed Old Dan a-straddle of a stump.

**

Old Dan Tucker down in town,
Swingin' the ladies all a-round,
First to the right and then to the left,
An' then to the one that you love best.

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-early 20th century to date-"Riding A Horsey To Town" (and similar titles of babies & young children) knee bouncing rhymes

Here's a description of the performance activity for these rhymes from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kniereitvers:

Kniereitvers (German for "a verse for riding on knees") is a nusery rhyme that is recited while two people play. Usually an older person plays with a younger one (mostly a child), with the child sitting on the older person's knee.

[...]

Accompanying actions

While playing and singing[6] the verses, the child sits on a parent's knees or lap facing the parent. The parent moves the knees up and down, imitating riding a horse. The parent holds on to the child's hands imitating holding reins. When it comes to the part where the parent says "the rider will go plop" the parent opens the legs or knees so that the child slips down towards the floor while holding hands the entire time. The parent will then pull the child back onto the lap.

This little acting game is a lot of fun for the child,[2] anticipating the 'fall' from the 'horse' and being saved by the parent, staying safe and sound.[7]...
-end of quote-

Examples:
From https://www.facebook.com/groups/AppalachianAmericans/posts/10160042147493648/ Ride Horsey Knee Bouncing Examples from Appalachian Americans Facebook page
[These examples are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only.]
1. Jackie Meadows, 2022
"The version I remember is

"Dr. Jones going downtown
Riding a billy goat, leading a hound.
The hound gave a bark, the goat gave a jump
And spilled Dr. Jones right straddle of a stump."

The adult would ride the child on their foot and "spill" them when the goat gave a jump. Every child in the family has loved this."

**
2. Julia Nichols, 2022
"I remember crossing your legs at knees and a small child would sit on top of foot and you would ride them up and down sing Trot little Horsey go to town watch out Horsey don’t fall down. I heard the song as this. Ida Red,Ida Blue she can put a saddle on a hump back mule,Ida Red going to town riding a Goat and leading a Hound the Hound barked and the Billy Goat jumped throwed Ida Red a straddle of a stump."

**
3. Kathy Carroll, 2022
"Old aunt Sally going downtown. Riding a billy goat leading a hound. Hound barked, billy goat jumped, throwed aunt Sally straddled a stump. (People in NC usually just put the name of the child on their knee in the song tho)"

-end of quotes-
Click __ for upcoming pancocojams post on this subject 

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-early to mid 20th century?- "Buster Brown Went To Town" And "I Went To Town To See Mrs. Brown (or "i Went Downtown Miss Brown" and similar titles)

Information about  the name "Buster Brown"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buster_Brown

Buster Brown is a comic strip character created in 1902 by Richard F. Outcault that was adopted as the mascot of the Brown Shoe Company in 1904. The characters of Buster Brown, Mary Jane, and his dog Tige became well known to the American public in the early 20th century. The Buster Brown suit reflected his outfit and became very popular for young boys.[1][2][3]

 Origin

The character of Buster Brown may have been loosely based on Granville Hamilton Fisher, a son of Charles and Anna Fisher of Flushing, New York. Outcault copied Fisher's physical appearance for his comic strip. The name "Buster" came from the popularity of Buster Keaton, then a child actor in vaudeville.[4] Roger Cushman Clark (1899–1995) of Deadwood, South Dakota was also described as the "original model" for the Buster Brown character.[5][6]"...

Examples: 
From http://www.seedharvestmusicacademy.org/baby--me.htm
1." Buster Brown went to town,
Riding a billy goat leading a hound.
Hound barked,
Billy Goat jumped,
And threw Buster Brown right over the stump!"

2. From https://scoop.previewsworld.com/Home/4/1/73/1016?articleID=176751 "Playtime with Buster Brown"
"Buster Brown
Went to town
With his pants
On upside down
He lost a nickel
He bought a pickle
The pickle was sour
He picked a flower
The flower was yellow
He bought him a fellow
The fellow was mean
He bought a bean
The bean was hard
He bought a card
And on the card
It said, "Red hot pepper!"

**
3. darwineann , 2007, https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080323122038AA6gzqe [This link is no longer active.]
"I went down town, to see Miss Brown. She gave me a nickel, to buy a pickle. The pickle was sour so she gave me a flower. The flower was black so she gave me a smack. The smack was hard so she gave me a card. And on the card it said: Little Spanish dancer turn around(turn around) . Little Spanish dancer touch the ground( and then you touch the ground) . Little Spanish dancer tie your shoe (jump on one leg, pretend to tie shoe). Little Spanish dancer sixty four ski doo" .

**
4.Ellen Mason, AACS Music Teacher, https://elitejumps.co/blogs/guides/jump-rope-rhymes-songs?page=2

I went downtown
To see Ms. Brown,
She gave me a nickel
To buy a pickle,
The pickle was sour,
So I bought a flower.
The flower was dead, she gave me a tack.
The tack was sharp, she gave me a harp.
The harp was broke, she gave me a cloak.
The cloak was tight, she gave me a kite.
The kite away flew, and I did too.
(Player runs out at too)

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-late 20th century? to this date- "I Went Downtown To See Charlie Brown" (or "I Went Downtown To See James Brown") 

information about the name "Charlie Brown" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Brown
"Charles "Charlie" Brown is the principal character of the American comic strip Peanuts, syndicated in daily and Sunday newspapers in numerous countries all over the world.

[...]

The character's name was first used on May 30, 1948, in an early Schulz comic strip titled Li'l Folks. The character made his official debut in the first Peanuts comic strip on October 2, 1950."...

Information about James Brown from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brown
"James Joseph Brown (May 3, 1933 – December 25, 2006) was an American singer, songwriter, dancer, musician, and record producer. The central progenitor of funk music and a major figure of 20th-century music,

[...]

Brown was one of the first ten inductees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on January 23, 1986. His music has been heavily sampled by hip-hop musicians and other artists.[3]"...

These examples are performed as partner handclap rhymes.

Numbers are given for referencing purposes only.
1. From https://ezebreezy.com/silly-school-yard-songs1/
"I went downtown
To see Charlie Brown,
He gave me a nickel
To buy a pickle,
The pickle was sour,
So I bought a flower.
The flower was dead, so this is what I said.
Down Down baby, do the roller coaster.
Sweet sweet baby. Never wash the dishes.
Naughty naughty baby, jumping out the window.
Itchy itchy soda pop, you are out.
Itchy itchy soda pop, you are out."

**
2. From Sarah, Octoblog, Schoolyard games; 7/17/2005 [blog no longer active]
"i Went down town to meet charlie brown
he gave me a nickle that bought me a pickle
the pickle was sour so he bought me a flower
the flower was dead so this is what he said:
down down baby down by the rollercoaster
sweet sweet baby never wana let you go
just because i kissed you doesnt mean i love you
shimmy shimmy coco puffs
shimmy shimmy pow
shimmy shimmy coco puffs
shimmy shimmy pow
My momy your momy live across the street
18,19 Alligator street
Boom Bang Choo Choo Train
wind me up i do my thang
( hit the person beside you)
Oops i'm Sorry!"

** 
3,  Avengethe 90s, 2014,
https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/2n9rio/miss_mary_mack_and_other_hand_clapping_games/
...."(gonna rock to the treetops all day long, huffin and a puffin and singin that song. all the little birdies on danbird street love to hear the robins go "tweet tweet tweet", rockin robin, tweet tweet, tweetle-eet, rockin robin, tweet tweet, tweetle-eet, mama's in the kitchen burning that rice, daddy's on the corner shooting them dice, brother's in jail, drinking ginger-ale, sister's on the corner selling fruit cocktail. went downtown to see james brown, he gave me a nickel, i bought me a pickle, the pickle was sour, so i bought me a flower, the flower was dead so this is what he said, black power, black power, your daddy needs a shower, don't laugh (haha) don't laugh (haha) your mama needs a bath!)"

**
4. AnonymousNovember 13, 2025 
https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/01/multiple-examples-of-childrens-rhyme-i.html
"I’m from New Orleans btw but ours was:

I went downtown to see James Brown, he gave me a nickel to buy me a pickle, the pickle too sweet, I want a piece of meat, the meat too rough, I wanna ride the bus, the bus too full, I wanna ride the bull, the bull too black, I want my money back, the money too green, I want some red beans, the beans too hot, I think I gotta fot (“fot” is how we say “fart”)"

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Visitor comments are welcome.

The History And Some Memories Of Versions Of The Liberian Folk Song "Banuwa"

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest Edition -November 23, 2024 (title change)

This is Part II of a two part pancocojams series about the Liberian folk song "Banuwa" that have been popularized in the United States and in other countries since the 1950s. 

That post presents an article excerpt and comments from other online sources about the Liberian folk song "Banuwa" including a comment from my 2014 pancocojams post.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2024/11/seven-video-examples-of-liberian-folk.html for Part I. That post showcases six YouTube videos of the song "Banuwa". (Notice that the earlier form of that word "Banua" was eventually changed to the phonetic spelling "Banuwa").

That pancocojam post also showcases a YouTube sound file of the 1963 African American Rhythm & Blues song "Bon-doo-wah".

The content of this post is presented for historical, folkloric, and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composers of the Liberian folk song that became "Banuwa". Thanks to all those who composed and arranged modified versions of that Liberian folk song. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.  

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SELECTED ONLINE SOURCES ABOUT THE LIBERIAN FOLK SONG "BANUWA" AND ITS MODIFIED VERSIONS THAT HAVE SPREAD FROM THE UNITED STATES AROUND THE WORLD 

I'm presenting the online article excerpt that is given as #1 below  as the first source I;m quoting because it provides the most comprehensive history of how the Liberian song "Banuwa" became a widely known African folk song in the United States and from there in many other countries worldwide.

I'm presenting the comment that is given as #2 below because that comment is what motivated me to re-visit the song "Banuwa" that I published a pancocojams post about in 2014. Thanks, John Dahlin for the information that you shared in your comment!

 

All of the other comments/quotes from video descriptions are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only. 

It should be noted that most of the YouTube videos of "Banuwa" either have no comments or their comment featured has been turned off, in some instances, because of YouTube's rule about no comments for children's videos.


ONLINE SOURCE #1

https://compvid101.blogspot.com/2012/09/lost-somewhere-in-translation-banuwa.html

Comparative Video 101 Friday, September 7, 2012 "Lost Somewhere In Translation: "Banuwa" "

Before the passing of Neil Armstrong and my resulting article last week on the John Stewart song about him intervened, I had originally intended this week's piece as a direct follow-up to the article on "Canastas y mas canastas/Coplas" from two weeks ago because of several interesting parallels between that Mexican tune and our present selection from Africa, "Banuwa." Both songs appeared in U.S. folksingers' repertoires about the same time in the mid-1950s; both are in languages other than English; both were interpreted by a number of high-profile artists - and both may well have been contextually misunderstood by the American performers who sang them - or who still do.

In that last respect, "Banuwa" may share more in common than you might at first guess with two other traditional numbers that originated in Africa, "Mangwani Mpulele" and "Wimoweh." If you glance at the piece on "Wimoweh" and pay especial attention to the remarks by Joseph Shabalala of Ladysmith Black Mambazo - and listen to that group's sublime rendition - it becomes immediately apparent that the "hunting chant" approach to the song presented by The Weavers, the Kingston Trio, and The Tokens is far off base in terms of the song's actual meaning. Likewise, "Mangwani" may well be a wedding song as Theo Bikel and Laura Brannigan present it, but if so it is closer to the naughty "Canastas/Coplas" than it is to Noel Stookey's wonderfully religious and romantic composition also called "The Wedding Song."

American folksingers' occasional inability to appreciate cultural contexts is hardly surprising, especially if we remember that the songs cited above found their way into our pop/folk music song bag well before the era of broadened legal immigration policies of the 1970s and of the economic globalization that began to take serious shape in the 1990s, both of which have begun to chip away at the parochialism that has afflicted our country fully as much as it has most others.

[…]

Though such cultural disconnects may sometimes result in unintentional offense (discussed in this blog, for example, in a song like the rewrite of "Si Me Quieres Escribir" into "Coast of California"), more often than not no harm is done by a folk process that converts one song into another, often very different in topic or intent from the original.

The Liberian song "Banuwa" exemplifies both a misunderstood original intent in some versions but a delightful transformation into a very different tune in others. The traditional number is tribal in origin and is said to be either a lullaby or a processional. Possibly so; take a look at the brief, simple lyric:

Banuwa, Banuwa, Banuwa yo

A la no, nehnio la no

Nehnia la no

Banuwa, Banuwa, Banuwa yo

 

which is generally translated as something like

 

Don't cry, don't cry, pretty little girl don't cry.

Don't cry, don't cry, pretty little girl don't cry.

Your father off at the village

Your mother's out for a while

Your brother's down by the river.

Don't cry little girl, don't cry.

 

This may be what it appears literally to be, a lullaby comforting a fussy and discontented little child. Compare it to, for example, "Rock-a-bye, Baby" - which, when you think about it, is really a pretty terrifying lyric, what with the breaking branch and falling baby. The soothing singing voice of the mother (traditionally) takes the terror out of it, we hope.

But consider the "Banuwa" lyric again - why would it comfort a child to know that father, mother, and brother are away from home? It sounds like cause for sadness or anxiety rather more than relief. That leaves open the possibility that the song functions on two levels, like most fairy tales and nursery rhymes do.

[…]

…the westerners who found the melody and harmony pleasing in the 1950s did not seem to know much about "Banuwa" except for its African pedigree. My friend Art Podell of the early New Christy Minstrels told me this morning that the song swept through Greenwich Village like wildfire mid-decade, and he had heard performers do it at college folk festivals as well. Pete Seeger seems not surprisingly to be the source of the tune in the U.S., as he was for dozens of songs from around the world. One of the first American recordings, if not the earliest, was by on a 1955 LP by a Village pick-up group directed by Seeger called The Song Swappers that included Erik Darling (soon to replace Seeger in the Weavers), Alan Arkin, and a chorus of teens from the Little Red Schoolhouse including a 17-year-old Mary Travers, later of Peter, Paul and Mary. This page from Smithsonian Folkways Records includes a sample of this version, and you can clearly hear Mary's not-yet-mature voice at the top of the vocal blend.

I would be willing to bet the farm that this record was in the possession of Kingston Trio founding member Dave Guard, who has the solo copyright for the next three versions and that he listed as "adapted by" for the KT's debut album. Most Trio fans will recognize from that Folkways page that the Song Swappers also include two more songs - "Bimini Gal" and "Oleanna" - that were later rewritten by other lyricists and that appeared on two other very early KT albums. Guard took his cue from the Swappers' more uptempo rendition of the African chant and turned it into a brief but entertaining calypso tune, reflecting his interest in that latter genre.

[…]

"Banuwa" has "legs" as they used to say on Broadway in all of its many versions. It is widely performed by choral groups worldwide, especially in the arrangement by Mike Brewer, who included it in his Three African Songs collection. Lullaby or flirting song or calypso, its essential simplicity and tunefulness guarantee that it will be around a lot longer than any of us will."

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ONLINE SOURCE #2
https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/12/three-examples-of-liberian-folk-song.html [comment]

Anonymous, November 17, 2024 at 12:03 PM 

"Hello!
I was browsing the internet while sipping my morning cup of coffee when a song from my childhood popped into my head- "Bon Doo Wah' by the Orlons (from Philadelphia!). I find the song on Youtube and enjoy listening as it conjures up some of my earliest memories. When reading the description of the song, it's noted that the melody is based on 'the calypso song Banua'. Down the rabbit hole I go! First stop - the Kingston Trio. Not really a fan of their music, but I hear the similar melody to the Orlons song. I could not find anything further relating the song to being a 'calypso' song, and more research takes me across the Atlantic to Liberia! Now I have learned all about this melody and it's origins. I was a radio DJ and ran record shops throughout the 80s and 90s and have always had an affinity for Caribbean and African music, and you have helped broaden my knowledge and connect it to my earliest memories! Your blog entry puts the icing on the whole learning experience. Thank You, John Dahlin"

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ONLINE SOURCE #3
Google search result for the question "What language is the song "Banuwa" in"

" AI Overview

"Banuwa" is a Liberian folk song, and the word itself translates to "Don't cry, little girl, don't cry" in the Liberian language, which is most likely a variation of Kolokwa (Liberian Kreyol), a pidgin language spoken widely in Liberia; essentially, it's considered a Liberian vernacular language with influences from English and various indigenous languages.

Key points about Banuwa:

Meaning: "Don't cry, little girl, don't cry"

Origin: Liberian folk song

Language: Considered to be in Liberian Kreyol (Kolokwa)"

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ONLINE SOURCE #4
YouTube video "African choir sings banuwa", published by Nico van den Berge, Jun 1, 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMe5EFqeHis 

[translated in this video description by the publisher from Dutch]
"One by one the choir members appear from their seat and walk to the stage in front. The choir of the African Bible University in Uganda sings Banuwa during the gradution ceremony of 2009. The Mzungu in the choir is my wife Inge. Does anybody know what the word Banuwa means? (we don't) nvandenberge@cs.com"
-snip-
The word "Mzungu" is a colloquial (sometimes considered to be offensive) term in East Africa which means "White person".

Comments from that video's discussion thread:

1. @zibblate, 2009
"I think I remember from junior high school it was, "Don't cry, Don't Cry, pretty little girl don't cry. Don't cry, Don't Cry, pretty little girl don't cry. Your father off at the village your mothers out for a while, your brothers down by the river. No need to sit and cry." Or close to that. But this sounds like a slightly different version than what we sang

**
Reply
2. @CodyAdamsMusic, 2011
"@zibblate We are doing this song in my school, and the only english in it is "Sing Noel, Sing Noel, Noel, Noel",  and "We sing a joyful Noel!" but the translation it showed on the bottom of the music for Banuwa, Banuwa, Banuwa Yo was "Don't cry, don't cry, pretty little girl don't cry", and honestly, my favorite part, "ala no neh ni a la no", it reminds me of the lion king lol"

**
Reply
3. @annieschmidt7301, 2018
"CodyAdamsMusic omg same im performing it tonite for a christmas concert"

**
Reply
4. @temitopefaleti7053, 2018
"CodyAdamsMusic That's what has been happening to me in the last few years; any time I am listening to one of Joseph Martin's cantatas and hear Sing Noel, I end up singing Banuwa"

**
5. @michaelkohl4541, 2016
"This song is from Liberia as far as I know.

And the main theme of this song is: Pretty girl, do not cry.

 

Greetings from Vienna, Austria, Central Europe."

**
Reply
6. @annieschmidt7301, 2018
"Michael Kohl actually it means sing noelle. We are singing it in choir"

**
Reply
7. @Foxy_kat1111, 2023
"Michael is right, Annie is not. It does mean, pretty girl do not cry. Most folk songs are uplifting and trying to make the FOLK happy! So check your facts next time, AnNiE"

**
8. @nvandenberge, 2010 [video publisher]
"@jesst666 Well, uh, don't know if this is THE original version. We tried to have it as original as possible, but who on earth knows the original version of a folk song like this? "
-snip-
This description statement and this comment were both quoted in Part I of this pancocojams post after that video (which is given as #3 in that post.]

The video publisher didn't indicate how he learned "Banuwa", but my guess is that he learned of it from a record of the American folk song version of that song.  

**
9. @wilcokloosterman, 2011
"Banuwa is a Liberian folk song used as a love song, lullaby, or even a processional. Here is the original text and translation:

 Banuwa, Banuwa, Banuwa yo

A la no, nehnio la no

Nehnia la no     

 

Don't cry, Don't Cry, pretty little girl don't cry.

Don't cry, Don't Cry, pretty little girl don't cry.

Your father off at the village your mothers out for a while, your brothers down by the river. No need to sit and cry."
-snip-
How old is this "original" text and does it pre-date the lyrics that American folk singers recorded? Also, what was this song's original tune? (It's likely that it wasn't Calypso.) 

**
10. @TheKappytime, 2014
"Quite nice.  Ww learned this song about 40 years ago at Washington Elementary School in Peoria,  Illinois, USA.  A few verses I somewhat recall..

" your daddy's gone to the river.

your mother's gone for a while

 so just be s still my darling.

no need to sit and cryyyyyy.... "

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ONLINE SOURCE #4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N30SyMvUS8A "Banuwa Liberian Folk Song Body Music"
published by eliana danzì, Jan 18, 2021

Solo voci e corpo per questo arrangiamento nato da un lavoro di gruppo del Seminario OSI online "La musica che ho", condotto da Eliana Danzì
-snip-
Google translate of this video description from Italian to English:
Only voices and body for this arrangement born from a group work of the OSI online Seminar "La musica che ho", conducted by Eliana Danzì
-snip-
There are a few comments in this video's discussion thread. All of those comments that I can make sense of praise that performance. 
-snip-
"Body music" is another referent for "body patting" / "patting Juba" and (doing) "Hambone".

Here's a link to another YouTube example of "Banuwa" that features people doing body patting while singing that song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm9Bn_zcAdQ "Banuwa - Pop. africana" published by Coral Ágora de Segovia, Sep 9, 2018  #CursoCantoCoralXXII #JavierCorcuera

Obra: Banuwa

Director: Javier Corcuera

Extracto del Concierto de Calle del XXII Curso de Canto Coral Ágora, grabado el 28 de agosto de 2018 en las escaleras de la Iglesia de San Martín (Segovia). 
-snip-
Google translate from Spanish to English:
"Extract from the Street Concert of the XXII Ágora Choral Singing Course, recorded on August 28, 2018 on the stairs of the Church of San Martín (Segovia)."
-snip-
That church is in Spain.

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ONLINE SOURCE #5
https://pdfbandmusic.com/products/banuwa "Banuwa", Beginning Band - Holiday Music, publisher Jerry Frazier [no publishing date is given for this page.]

" "Banuwa" is a Liberian folk song most often performed during the holiday season. The music represents quality and community among the people. The simple, yet lovely, melodic line is playable by beginning bands and which make the piece an excellent choice for the first beginning band concert."

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This concludes Part Ii of this two part pancocojams series.

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Seven Video Examples Of The Liberian Folk Song "Banuwa" In The United States & In Some Other Countries

Release-Topic, May 30, 2015

Provided to YouTube by Smithsonian Folkways Recordings

Banuwa Yo · The Song Swappers and Pete Seeger

Folk Songs of Four Continents

℗ 2004 Smithsonian Folkways Recordings / 1955 Folkways Records

Released on: 1955-01-01

[comments are turned off]

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series about the Liberian folk song "Banuwa" that have been popularized in the United States and in other countries since the 1950s. 

This post showcases six YouTube videos of the song "Banuwa". (Notice that the earlier form of that word "Banua" was eventually changed to the phonetic spelling "Banuwa").

This pancocojam post also showcases a YouTube sound file of the 1963 African American Rhythm & Blues song "Bon-doo-wah".

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2024/11/the-history-of-and-remembrances-about.html for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post is entitled "The History Of And Some Remembrances About Versions Of The Liberian Folk Song "Banuwa" ".

The content of this post is presented for historical, cultural, entertainment, educational, and aesthetic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composers of the Liberian folk song that became "Banuwa". Thanks to all those who composed and arranged modified versions of that Liberian folk song. Thanks to all those who are featured in these showcases videos, and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.   
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/12/three-examples-of-liberian-folk-song.html for the 2014 pancocojams post entitled "Four Examples Of The Liberian Folk Song "Banuwa" "
 
Two of the videos that are showcased in this 2024 post are included in that 2014 post.
 
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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
Unfortunately, there are no YouTube video performances of "Banuwa" from Liberia, West Africa.

Video #3 that is given below is the only YouTube video that is available at this time* that is performed by people in the African continent. However, that video is from Uganda, East Africa.

* https://compvid101.blogspot.com/2012/09/lost-somewhere-in-translation-banuwa.html Comparative Video 101: Lost Somewhere In Translation: "Banuwa", September 7, 2012
 "Though there are one or two YouTube videos of African groups performing "Banuwa," they are church groups from central and east Africa, more than a thousand miles distant in geography, language, and culture from the west African coastal origin in Liberia of the song. This first version is by a German choral group called SingLust, and except for a slight mispronunciation, they are doing the lyrics as noted above:

 Video unavailable. This video is private."...
-snip-
Other excerpts from that article are given in Part II of this pancocojams post. A few comments from Liberians and from people who lived in Liberia are also found in Part II of this pancocojams series. Those comments confirm that "Banuwa" was and still is a folk song from that West African nation. However, (again unfortunately), those comments don't provide information about the lyrics for that song or which Liberian language those lyrics come from and what those lyrics mean.     

If you know of any YouTube, Facebook, or any other social media examples of "Banuwa" from Liberia, West Africa, and/or if you know about when and how the song "Banuwa" was or is now performed in Liberia, please share that information in the comment section below. Thanks in advance.
-snip-
Here's a comment that I wrote in 2023 in the discussion thread for the pancocojams post entitled

Azizi Powell, November 28, 2023 https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/12/sing-noel-african-noel-videos-lyrics.html ""Sing Noel" (African Noel) videos & lyrics"
"Anonymous, in addition to watching a number of YouTube videos of "Banuwa Yo" and reading comments from the discussion threads for a few that had comments, I happened upon this 2012 article from a blog by Jim Moran entitled "Comparative Video 101" https://compvid101.blogspot.com/2012/09/lost-somewhere-in-translation-banuwa.html.

The article's title is Lost Somewhere In Translation: "Banuwa" and that title speaks to the opinion that folk musician/writer and folk music radio host Jim Moran has that the song "Banuwa" may have a different meaning than it has been given since it burst on the folklorist scene in the 1950s.

Jim Moran points out that in 2012 there are no renditions of this song -on YouTube or elsewhere by Liberians or by other West Africans and most of the videos of the song are by White people throughout the world (I'm paraphrasing what he wrote. That's still the case in 2023.

I've looked and could find no information about which Liberian tradition (which ethnic group in Liberia) does this song come from. Also, which language is this?

I think that it's not all that surprising that "Sing Noel" is based on "Banuwa Yo" since the African connection that both of these songs have is suspect (to me if not to anyone else.)

No matter how nice it sounds, I'd rather showcase and sing a traditional African song whose roots can be traced and at the very least, whose language can be identified."
-snip-
I still agree with what Jim Moran (and I wrote) about the so-called "Liberian" song "Banuwa". As of December 12, 2024, I still haven't come across any Liberian performances of "Banuwa" or any information about traditional Liberian sources for that song.

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #2 - Kingston Trio "Banua" (1958) 

cooltunes74,  Nov 2, 2012

From the self titled Capitol Lp.

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #3 -African choir sings banuwa

Nico van den Berge, Jun 1, 2009

English at the bottom.

Dit is een hele creatieve manier om met je koor op te komen. Om de beurt lopen de leden van het koor van de African Bible University (ABU) vanaf verschillende zitplaatsen uit het publiek naar voren en nemen hun plek in op het podium. De gelegenheid is het afstuderen van de eerste lichting studenten van de ABU, omdat deze universiteit 4 jaar geleden begon. (Die Mzungu is mijn vrouw Inge Houtman.) Het lied bestaat voornamelijk uit één woord: Banuwa (spreek uit: ba-noe-wa), dat op verschillende manieren wordt gezongen. Het is afkomstig uit het noorden van Afrika. Meer weten we er niet van. Is er iemand die weet wat dit voor lied is en wat de woorden betekenen? (nvandenberge@cs.com)

www.zendeling.wordpress.com

One by one the choir members appear from their seat and walk to the stage in front. The choir of the African Bible University in Uganda sings Banuwa during the gradution ceremony of 2009. The Mzungu in the choir is my wife Inge. Does anybody know what the word Banuwa means? (we don't) nvandenberge@cs.com
-snip-
The word "Mzungu" is a colloquial (sometimes considered to be offensive) term in East Africa which means "White person".

Here's a discussion thread comment from the publisher of that video that was written in response to a question (that is no longer given in that discussion thread) about the original words for that folk song:

 @nvandenberge, 2010
"@jesst666 Well, uh, don't know if this is THE original version. We tried to have it as original as possible, but who on earth knows the original version of a folk song like this? "

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SHOWCASE VIDEO - #4 - Banuwa - Folk Song from Liberia / Música folclórica da Liberian



nynoca16, May 30, 2013 [Brazil]

Sam estava na percução.
-snip-
Google translate: Portuguese to English:
"Sam was on percussion."
-snip-
nynoca16 is the mother of Sam who is one of the drummers in this Brazilian video.

The title for this video initially attributed this song to Libya (which is in North Africa) instead of Liberia (which is in West Africa). Several people wrote comments indicating that she had the wrong title. nynoca16 apologized for that mistake and indicated that she had written "Libya" in the title for the country where the song "Banuwa" came from because that was the country name that was given on that school's program. (Hopefully, that was an innocent mistake on the school's part, and the school hadn't been teaching students that the folk song "Banuwa" was from Libya.)  

nynoca16 also wrote that she was trying to change that country's name to the correct name, but was having some difficulty doing that. Thankfully, eventually she was able to correct this video's title and correctly attribute that song to Liberia.

Read that comment exchange at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHhDIVUBr3A

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #5 -Banuwa 



Jonathan Katz, Mar 23, 2017 No description has been added to this video.

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #6 -Banuwa

Strum Strike and Blow, Nov 7, 2021

Massed piece Banuwa

Strum Strike and Blow 2021

****
SHOWCASE VIDEO #7 - "Bon-doo-wah" 

The Orlons - Topic,   Jul 25, 2018

[…]

Composer  Lyricist: Kal Mann

Composer  Lyricist: David Appell

[Comments are turned off]
-snip-
According to the Internet, The Orlons released the song "Bon -Doo-Wah" in December 1963.

I was 13 years old at that time and I have no memory what so ever of that record. (I also don't remember any "Bandua"/ "Banduwa" folk songs in the United States from the 1950s on, and only learned about those folk songs as a result of my research for this post. 
 
The word "bon-doo-wah" in this R&B song is used as a refrain. I don't believe that that R&B group ever associated that record with the Liberian folk song "Banuwa" or its modified American folk song.

Here's some information about The Orlons from that group's Wikipedia page: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orlons
"The Orlons are an American R&B group from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, that formed in 1960.[1] The group won gold discs for three of their singles.

 [...]

In 1962, the group provided back-up vocals for Dee Dee Sharp's hits "Mashed Potato Time" and "Gravy (For My Mashed Potatoes)". They later found fame with their first national hit, "The Wah-Watusi", which reached No. 2 in the US pop chart[1] and which triggered the brief Watusi dance craze. They recorded their own versions of the Dee Dee Sharp songs for their debut album, The Wah-Watusi, which received a rating of 4.5 out of 5 from AllMusic in 2006.[4] They had a second hit in the same year with "Don't Hang Up", a No. 4 hit on the pop chart. The group had three hits in 1963: "South Street", the group's last Top Ten hit, which reached No. 3 on the Billboard chart; "Not Me", which reached No. 12; and "Crossfire", the group's last hit, which reached No. 19.[3]"...

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This concludes Part I of this two part pancocojams series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams

Visitor comments are welcome.

Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese": Comments From Mudcat Discussion Forum & My Opinions & Recommendations

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision- August 18, 2023

This pancocojams post presents some comments from Mudcat Discussion Forum* about Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese". 

This post also shares my opinions about whether, when, and how these songs (and songs like them) should be sung.

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those whose examples are included in this post.
-snip-
This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series about this song. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/09/racially-derogatory-variants-of-old.html for the pancocojams post entitled "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese' Songs" Are Racially Derogatory Variants Of The Song "Old Shoe Boots And Leggings".

Also, click  https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/08/examples-of-crazy-baldheaded-chinese.html. for the pancocojams post entitled "Examples Of "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" Song That Include Contributors' Demographic Information".
-snip-
*Mudcat is an online international folk music forum. I was a member of Mudcat from 2004 to 2014. Almost all of the songs that are discussed on that forum are from Anglo-American and Anglo-European cultures. That forum also includes some discussion threads on certain types of Black American songs, on British and American children's rhymes, as well as a small amount of Caribbean folk songs. My main interest at Mudcat was English language children's recreational rhymes.

Both members and guests can post on Mudcat (i.e. add new discussion threads and/or comments to previous discussion threads). Almost all of the discussion threads are open to new comments regardless of how long ago those discussion threads were started.

****
COMMENTS FROM TWO MUDCAT DISCUSSION THREADS ABOUT THE SONGS "ONCE IN CHINA THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN" (or other titles for that song) AND  'THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE" 

Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.

A. https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6971

1.
Subject: RE: Lyrics requested ... Once in China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 09:23 AM

"From the TIME Magazine archive: (with formatting changed a bit by me)

"Chickery Chick

Dec. 3, 1945

 In the [18]70s, collegians at Amherst set the 100-year-old jingle to music and sang it over pots of ale, when they wanted to prove that they could walk a musical straight line. One of the many versions ran like this:

In China there lived a little man
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan,
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.
Chingery-rico-rico-day ekel tekel Happy man.
Kuan-a-desco cartty-o gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

Last week this old tongue twister, with new and even less intelligible lyrics, was the fast-climbing No. 2 seller in Billboard magazine's poll of record sales. It was well on its way to join Mairzy Doats and the Hut Sut Song in the jabberwocky Valhalla of the jukebox. Twenty-nine-year-old Arkansas-born Jo Proffitt had changed the Chinaman into a chick, and called it Chickery Chick. She sent the lyrics to Tin Pan Alleysmith Sidney Lippman, who added some new notes. Now it describes a chicken who got bored with saying "chick chick" all day, astounds his companions with some jived-up poultry poetry: Chickery-chick cha-la cha-la, Check-a-la-romey in a ba-nan-i-ka... .Tin Pan Alley actuarians estimate that the U.S. will need about three months to get over it.

-Copyright 1945 by Santly-Joy, Inc." "

**
2.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

"Under the Lilacs," Louisa May Alcott (see Joe Offer post, 26 Apr 05), was serialized in the children's "St. Nicholas Magazine." Chapter 21 with-

In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery Wangery Chan,-

appeared in vol. 5, no. 11, 5 Sept 1878.

This long-lived and popular children's magazine would ensure widespread disemination of the little rhyme."

**
3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Hugh
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM

"I remember a song I heard at summer camp in Canada in the 60s. Unthinkable that anyone would sing it now. Clearly of the same origin as many of the other songs mentioned here, but a little different....

"Once in China lived a man
Name was Chickeracka Chee Chi Cho
Arms were long and legs were short
Chinaman could walk nor snort."

And the chorus went something like:

"Hoke chickeracka cheek chickaloro
Bongo loro piggywiggy wango
Hoko poko hit 'im in the coco
Chitterbee chatterbee chee chi cho."

For some reason it really sticks in my head over 40 years later. In fact, I found this thread because it was running through my head today, so I googled "Once in China lived a man". Weird."

**
4.
Subject: Lyr. Add: Chingery Chan
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM

"Jim Dixon posted the first verse of this old Amherst song. Here is the entire song. Many versions and additions since it first appeared in the 1860's.

Lyr. Add: CHINGERY CHAN

1.

In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan;
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.

Chorus:

Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Happy man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

2.

Miss Sky-high she was short and squat;
She had money, which he had not;
To her he then resolved to go,
And play her a tune on his little banjo.

Chorus:

3.

Miss Sky-high heard his notes of love;
She held his wash-bowl up above;
She poured it on the little man,
And that was the end of Chingery-chan.

Chorus:

Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Injured man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

 

From the section on Songs of Amherst (E. C. Brayton), p. 178-179. No author cited.

H. R. Waite, Coll. and Ed., 1868, "Carmina Collegensia: A Complete Collection of the Songs of the American Colleges, with Piano-Forte Accompaniment. To Which Is Added a Compendium of College History." Oliver Ditson & Co. New York:-C. H. Ditson & Co"

**
5
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM

"The song was reprinted, without change, in the enlarged "Carmina Collegensia" of 1876."

**
6.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man
From: GUEST,R
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

"Wow! How cool that there is a website on this! My mom was a kindergarden teacher and taught me this song back in the early 70s. I loved it and made her sing it to me over and over and now I sing it to my son...he's only 5 months...unfortunately I won't be able to sing it once he understand and can repeat the words because it has now been deemed politically incorrect, but anyway...here is the version I know:

Once there was a China man
His name was Chicka chalu Chapan
His hair was short, his teeth were long
And this is the way he walked along,

Chicka chalu chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy, Chicka Challapy
Chicka Chalu, Chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy China Man

Alas this poor old man he died
And in his coffin did reside
They shipped him back to old Japan
And that was the end of the China Man

Chicka chalu chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy, Chicka Challapy
Chicka Chalu, Chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy China Man"

**
7.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 11:38 AM

"I do hope that "The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag" by Country Joe & the Fish has an equally long life as this politically incorrect ditty. The "Fish" song, in my opinion, has some redeeming value.

I would still hesitate to sing "Once in China there lived a man" to any general audience unless I first characterized it as an anti-Chinese song. And, yes, I can understand why it's so much fun to sing within the family but it is still a song of ethnic if not racial ridicule.

At least mull that over before passing it on to another generation."

**
8
Subject: Origins: Once in China there lived a little man.
From: GUEST,patchouliaison
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

"My great grandfather used to sing this song, and it's been handed down in the family. I find it entirely racist and have asked my parents to stop singing it to my baby. They, of course, we're horrified I would make this request. Basically, I'm trying to prove them wrong, that it is a quite offensive song. Any ideas on where it came from? The version we learned goes like this:"...
-snip-
This comment continues with the words to that version of the song. 

**
9.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:06 AM

"patchouliaison. I quite agree. I find this song racist and offensive and I woder why anyone would want to bother singing it.

Just for the record, there is a version on CD, but no, I'm not prepared to provide any details."

**
10.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:40 AM

"Has anybody here looked closely at the lyrics before jumping on the usual bandwagons?

I've just been looking through the original 5 verse version from c1836 and the full song is definitely about one person and in no way implies this person is in any way typical of any race, in fact quite the opposite. The song is vaguely 19th century comic and there's lots of nonsense employed particularly in the chorus. There is just one hint that it might be a proto-minstrel song. If there is any prejudice implied here might I suggest that it is one of mocking a disabled person?

However, I do agree that one wouldn't want to offend by singing the song in public simply for the reactions and false perceptions it might invoke.

In the early 19th century there were thousands of songs of a similar nature caricaturing the Irish or a fictional Irishman. Some of these stage songs eventually were adopted into the Irish traditional repertoire and are still sung today by the Irish. Is it fine for the Irish to sing them but nobody else? (A rhetorical question)"

**
11.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 04:59 PM

"This thread is a testament to what can be achieved by a forum such as Mudcat. For a researching folklorist it is a goldmine. A plethora of variants. can I just make my usual plea, if you post a version sung in your family or community can you please tell us where and when at least?

As for any racist allusions, it is worth reading Azizi's post somewhere in the middle."
-snip-
August 16, 2023  - Here's my statement about Steve Gardham's comment mentioning me (written on August 16, 2023 and posted here on pancocojams with any attempt to re-post it on Mudcat.)

I was a very active member of Mudcat from Sept 2004 to 2011 and was somewhat less active on Mudcat between 2012 to Nov 2014 when I voluntarily withdrew my membership from that forum (by stating that to that forum). When Steve Gardham wrote his comment referring to me in 2020 I hadn’t been active on Mudcat for around five or six years. (I don't recall reading that comment until I started working on this pancocojams post on August 15,2023).

After withdrawing my membership on Mudcat, I wrote a few comments on that folk music forum in 2015  as a guest (with the name GUEST, Azizi and not with any other name). At some point in 2015 I found out that the comments that I attempted to add to Mudcat discussion threads weren't showing up on that forum (without any error message or any other statement) so I stopped trying to post any information or comments on Mudcat.

[Update: August 17, 2023- I tried and successfully added a comment to the Mudcat discussion thread https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174&messages=43 about changing the problematic referent "Chinese" in the song "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" to the word "neighbor" changing that title and line to "The Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor". That comment that I added to that Mudcat discussion thread is the same as a portion of my editorial notes that are found in this pancocojams post. 
-end of August 17, 2023 Update]

The only comments that I wrote on that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" discussion thread  were three comments in 2007. Two of those comments were about how I was re-thinking my guess that the children's rhyme "Stella Ola Ola" came from Spanish sources after reading examples of the "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" song. My third post (comment) on that particular Mudcat discussion thread was welcoming a guest to Mudcat and commenting on his statement that it was weird that he remembered that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" song after forty years.
 
I still periodically visit Mudcat to read discussion threads and, as this pancocojams post demonstrates, a lot pancocojams posts include content from Mudcat discussion threads. 

I'm not sure what Steve Gardham's comment about me means. My guess is that his comment means that he thinks that a lot of my Mudcat posts were racist. I definitely don't agree with that.

As is the case with other members (and former members of that forum), anyone clicking on my name in any Mudcat thread would lead them to hyperlinked list of the dates and titles of all of my Mudcat comments. People can read those comments and judge for themselves whether they are racist or not. 

**
12.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 11:09 PM

"This is one of our earliest threads on "Chinaman" songs. And yes, it is still a f—king* racist song. And if you are more disturbed by the word "f—king*" than by the racism of this song, then maybe your head isn't screwed on right. I included the word "f—king*" as a test.

Mudcat is often criticized for allowing the posting of songs that are considered racist. But yet, Mudcat is a Website that studies folk songs, warts and all. It is not a site for cleaning up songs - "euphemization" is more-or-less anathema here. We post songs as they were originally sung, although we may clean them up a bit when we sing them.

But a song like this is pure racism, and can't be cleaned up like "The Cat Came Back" and "I've Been Working on the Railroad" or "Shortnin' Bread." This song is racist to the core. Sometimes, people will sing songs like this to illustrate the racism of the "Good Old Days," but songs like this should never be sung for enjoyment or entertainment. Songs like this may sound cute to some, but they're not. They're f—king* racist.

If you don't like the word "f—king*," get over it. If you're a racist, get over that, too.

Take a look at the Racist Songs** threads. We do not support racism in any way, but we do our best to report it accurately. There's a difference, although it may take a certain level of intelligence to understand that.

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor"
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.-

**This words are given as a hyperlink. Here’s that link: https://mudcat.org/threadgroup.cfm?threadgroupid=1694 Run Ni—er*** Run - Threads about racial stereotyping, offensive lyrics, coon songs, etc.

***This word is fully spelled out in this title.

I've decided to use amended spelling on pancocojams for the n word and for profanity because I'm aware that most public schools in the USA prohibit content with those words completely spelled out and I want to increase the possibilities of pancocojams being used as a supplement in those schools.

****

B. https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174

1.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 10:52 PM

"I am sick and tired of all this "Chinaman" crap.

It is all racist drivel.

OK, I get it: you all thought it was "cute" when you learned it. And you are nostalgic for the days when you didn't know any better.

Well, now you do know better. Or you ought to.

It is no longer cute. It is disgusting.

I propose all these "Chinaman" threads be closed immediately.

We already have more versions than anybody could possibly have the patience to read.

Give it a rest. Permanently."

**
2.  
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:54 PM

"Well, Jim, the message previous to yours has two verses not posted before. This thread has only 18 posts, so we really haven't exhausted the song. I'll admit that songs like this make me cringe, but I think they're the most recent true examples of the folk process, since they're not apt to be affected by publishing. Not many books are going to publish songs like this. Lingenfelter and Dwyer Songs of the West has a number of "Chinaman" songs, but that's about the only printed source I can think of. I share your disgust with this type of song, but I think it's essential to preserve them and worthwhile to see how many versions have developed.

I don't think people have done THIS song to death, but I can't figure out why so many people have posted to the Once in China thread. That thread has 218 posts, and has been going since 1998."

**
3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,betty
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:08 PM

"My mom taught it to me as a kid in the 90s.

My mother she told me to open the door
but I didn't wanna
I opened the door, he fell on the floor
the bald headed man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his coat
but I didn't wanna
took off his coat, he smelled like a goat
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his hat
but I didn't wanna
I took off his hat, he looked like a rat
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his shoes
but I didn't wanna
I took off his shoes, he sang the blues
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his pants
but I didn't wanna
I took off his pants, he started to dance
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his shirt
but I didn't wanna
I took off his shirt, he fell in the dirt
the bald head man from China

That's all I remember. I always wondered why my mom (born in the 60s) told me to undress a bald head man from China who showed up at my door"

**
4.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:12 PM

"My grandfather taught me this song back in the late 40's (it was Crazy Baldheaded Chinese). I would sing it at bedtime and it drove my parents nuts because I had to sing every verse I knew. Would take forever for me to finish - thus prolonging my bedtime. Great memory."

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5.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:23 PM

"Does anyone remember the tune? Did it have it's own or was it from something else?

Looking back at some of the earlier posts - I serioulsy doubt that there was any intent to insult anyone with this song. No more so than say - This Little Piggy, etc. Children's songs don't have to do anything else but entertain. Young children have no bias. They only learn about bias from the adults and older children around them. Can't they just be silly without everyone worrying about offending someone or something?"...

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6.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,BRoman
Date: 27 May 13 - 11:28 PM

"My grandmother sang this to me when I was a child. Our version is a little different, but as Ive been reading everyone seems to have different verses. To whom ever ridiculously blew their top over a children's song well it's stupid. Im sorry, but when I heard it as a child and even now to this day when I sing it to my children I do not think of it as racist nor do my children. It was a funny song that I remember growing up. Get over yourself. To everyone else thanks for the other versions I have thoroughly enjoyed reading and knowing that other people have had the pleasure of enjoying it as well."

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7.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 May 13 - 10:17 PM

"I stand by my previous remarks."

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8.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Crazy old woman from china
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 08:09 PM

"Lol Jim Dixon calm the f—k* down

its assholes like you who vote yes to ban soda

 

racism exists

it always has

and always will

 

as a child however who sang this

 

I was not racist - I was a f—king* kid enjoying a funny song"
-snip-
*These words are fully spelled out in this comment.

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9.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,It's Just For Fun, That's All
Date: 27 May 17 - 11:27 AM

"Jim Dixon told me to close this thread,
But I didn't wanna.
I closed the thread, he filled me with lead,
The P.C. man from China."

 **
10.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 27 May 17 - 12:46 PM

"I think Patrick Sky should have included this song in his Songs That Made America Famous album, it would fit perfectly.

I'm so sick of all these Chinaman sh-t* that I actually enjoy its sickness. Could drive my fellow Chinamen nuts."
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

**
11.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:06 PM

"I heard this song performed in concert, probably in the 1980s, as "The Dirty Old Man from Fresno." (The performer had changed it to remove the anti-Chinese slur, which I fully approved of. It doesn't really matter to the song where the old man came from--it just needs two syllables. I kind of like the idea of replacing the placename with "Nowhere.") The performer also sang the English folksong it descended from, which I remember as "Old Shoes and Leggings." "

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MY OPINIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT "IN CHINA THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN", "THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE" AND SIMILAR SONGS  
I'm aware that for some people "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" are nostalgic songs, but they are also anti-Chinese songs. 

I believe that songs like "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and/or songs like it shouldn't be taught in schools for entertainment or recreational purposes. However, I believe that "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and songs/rhymes like it (such as "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" should be presented as supplements to teaching about racism in the United States and elsewhere, and specifically about anti-Chinese actions, laws, and attitudes in the United States and elsewhere.

I'm aware that for some people have fond memories of the songs  "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese". However, there should be little doubt that those songs ridicule Chinese people. 

I therefore recommend replacing the words China and Chinese in those songs with another word. 

An anonymous commenter wrote in 2018 on the Mudcat folk music forum wrote that "I heard this song performed in concert, probably in the 1980s, as "The Dirty Old Man from Fresno." (The performer had changed it to remove the anti-Chinese slur, which I fully approved of. It doesn't really matter to the song where the old man came from--it just needs two syllables."...

That commenter also reminded people that the song "Old Shoes And Leggings" is probably the source song for "The Crazy Baldheaded  Chinese" ("The Crazy Man From China").

I'll add that that the song "Old Shoes And Leggings" is a Scottish song that dates from the 18th century. That song ridicules old men who are trying to court young women. The song "Old Shoes And Leggings" doesn't include the word "China" or "Chinese" and doesn't have any other racial, ethnic, or nationality references.

In the spirit of what that anonymous commenter wrote and closer to the spirit of that old Scottish song, my suggestion is that words "China" or "Chinese" be retired from the songs that are now known as "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and "The Crazy Old Man From China". Instead of those words, I recommend using the two syllable word "neighbor". As such, the title of "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" would be changed to "My Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor" and the title of "The Crazy Old Man From China" would be changed to "The Crazy Old Man, My Neighbor".

Corresponding to my 1950s childhood memories of this song, people would sing:
"My mother she told me to open the door
The little baldheaded neighbor bor bor
I opened the door. He fell on the floor
The little baldheaded neighbor bor bor"
-snip-

Or people could sing:
My mother she told me to open the door
But I didn't wanna

I opened the door. He fell on the floor
My crazy baldheaded neighbor.
-snip-
I believe that the word "neighbor" works pretty well as a replacement for the problematic word "Chinese" in that song because 1. the two syllable word "neighbor" isn't offensive and 2. the word 'neighbor"  somewhat explains why the mother told her child to open the door for that man who ended up doing those crazy things. 

People teaching the "The Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor" could use it as a way of reinforcing the lesson that children should not only be aware of "stranger danger" but should also be alert to the possibility that people they know might cause them harm. Therefore, regardless of who asks them, children should always refuse to do something they know isn't right or they feel isn't right. 

What do you think? I'm open to other suggestions besides the word "neighbor". The goal is to retire the offensive word and replace it with a word that isn't problematic. 

People replaced "the n word" in the "Eeny Meenie Miney Mo" counting out rhyme so successfully that few people even remember that derogatory term used to be a part of that rhyme. So substituting another word for an offensive word can be done if people choose to do it.

****

One reason why I think the song "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" is offensive is because the nonsense words in its chorus and verses were considered to be imitations of the way that non-Asians thought that Chinese people sounded when they spoke in their languages.

For example, here's an excerpt of the lyrics of one version of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man":
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUOfIdQ45Ck "Grammy: Chickety-Chickety Chan"
published by dinosaursareradical, Jun 12, 2012

"In Chinatown there lived a man
His name was Chickety-Chickety Chan
His feet were long and his toes were short
And this is the way the poor Chinamen talked

CHORUS:

Ooooh, chickety-chee chi-ly chi-lo
chickety-rummo inna-banana-wallya
wallya chi-na-key
inna-banana-ga-watchio"
-snip-
If the lyrics to these anti-Chinese songs were revised (cleaned up) and their racist versions weren't studied in schools/universities then some "history deniers" could claim that any anti-Chinese history ever happened in the USA and elsewhere.  

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For the record (no pun intended), the tune that my sisters and I used for what we called "The Little Baldheaded Chinese" song closely fits the "Blow The Man Down" shanty (not that we knew that shanty when we were 7, 6, and 5 years old).

I should also mention that repeating the end of that word was the way that my sisters and I sung that song, but I haven't come across that pattern in any other examples of that song. I only suggest it because I remember it being  fun to do (Regardless of how much fun it may have been, our mother didn't allow us to sing that song again because she said it was "nasty").

****

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