Do Africans Think That Black Americans Are "Diluted"? (selected comments from a YouTube video discussion thread)

COOPSCORNER, Jan 31, 2025  JOHANNESBURG

Live from Johannesburg, South Africa! Mr. Jackson Cooper aka J-Coop tackles a very important question "What do South Africans think of Black Americans?". These answers will truly SHOCK you. Check it out... Enjoy!

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post presents a sample of comments from the discussion thread of a 2025 YouTube video about random "man on the street" style interviews that a young Black American conducted with random students from a Johannesburg, South Africa university. This post focuses on some of the comments in that discussion thread that focused on two of those university students in separate interviews* describing Black Americans as being "diluted".

The content of this post is presented for historical and socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to COOPSCORNER for conducting those interviews and for publishing this video.
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*Here's the Google Search results for the term "man in the street" - "A man-on-the-street interview is a type of informal interview where journalists ask random people questions in public places to gather opinions or reactions on a specific topic. This method is often used to capture the pulse of the community and provides diverse perspectives that can enhance storytelling."

Click 5:32 for the complete interview for a Black female student from Zimbabwe who said that Black Americans are "diluted and polluted". That part of her comment begins at 5:43. In response to the question "How do you view Black Americans"?, that student said "Okay, when it comes to us and black Americans, we are just two different groups. We are strictly from South Africa, from Africa, the roots of Africa and I feel like they are sort of like diluted in a way, polluted in a way"...  

(I didn't understand what this student said her first name is. The video captions didn't give that first name, but gave "Sambata" as her  surname.)

Click 9:17 for the beginning of the complete interview with Evans, a Black male student who was born in Zimbabwe. At 9:58, In response to the question "How do Zimbabweans view Black Americans", Evans said "Black Americans aren't really the same African as we are African. We view that as though oh no they're diluted". .

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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO'S DISCUSSION THREAD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XeK0MhRqxs

All of these comments were written in February and March 2025. These comments are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only.

1. nondumisobuthelezi4570
"As a South African, i find words like DILUTED & POLUTED to be so disrespectful."

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2. @papaomphile5094
"As i south African i sonehow got really annoyed when the Zimbabwean dude and the tall girl associated Americans with the word "diluted" thats disrespectful. We love and learn from our Brothers & sisters in the states ❤"

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3. WayneKitching
"I'm a South African and I cringed when the girl said about about Black Americans who have lost their culture but developed a unique culture."

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4. @benjaminsmith2287
"Only two people said that. And we are diluted compared to Africans. I liked how varied the responses were."

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5. @QueenBee-il1oj
"I agree on one hand the words DILUTED to describe African Americans is disrespectful. But on another view many of us do not know from what part of Africa we originated.  What Africans in the diaspora and what Africans on the continent need only to understand 1 thing and that is that we ARE BLACK AND PROUD.         James Brown theme."

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6. @Kii_J
"Calling us diluted yet the whole world including SA 🇿🇦 follows our culture is very interesting. America culture is black American culture as a whole."

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7. @tolucontent3795
"💯 agree..  that’s only that persons view not every African"

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8. @missqt48
"Why do a lot of FBA/AA/ Black Americans get triggered by ONE persons opinion?

How you gonna get on the WM internet and be mad at one person opinion 😄😄😄

If y’all had emotional intelligence you could rule the world! But very emotional people don’t go far in life!"
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"FBA" = "Foundational Black American" is a new term that refers to Black people who can trace their ancestry to at least one person who was enslaved in the United States. 

A similar referent, ADOS, (American Descendants Of Slavery), was first used online for that same population around 2016, but you rarely come across that term online anymore. The referent FBA began to be used online shortly after ADOS began. but FBA appears to be increasing its online use (my guess) particularly among Black people under the age of forty. .

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Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2024/06/article-excerpts-about-population.html for the pancocojams post entitled "Article Excerpts About The Population Referents "ADOS" (American Descendants Of Slaves) And "FBA" (Foundational Black Americans)".

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9. @jbell73986
"She called us polluted"

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10. @jbell73986
"And how the hell do you think that happened? Smh"

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11. @sharadawilliams6394
"I perceive ‘diluted’ to mean that we have little of our African culture. I think about how the Yorubas in Brazil still practice their Yoruba culture. I’m not privy of Brazil’s relationship with enslaved Africans during the TAST; how the enslavers treated them but here in America, our ancestors culture was stripped by their enslavers so what do expect. At least some of us have the desire to connect with people from the continent and learn but the disrespect from some of you can be a deterrent that has caused some FBAs to delineate. If it weren’t for my belief that you are our siblings was instructed, per Scripture, not hold a grudge against you, I would do the same thing.  Accusing us of being proud while you’re over there basically boasting against us hypocritical. Our culture was birthed out of struggle and adversity."

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12. @linthexplorer814
"Hi I am sorry I needed to comment.. as an African who grew up in the US the fact that Africans in the motherland use the terms diluted and polluted to describe African-Americans is so disrespectful.. black culture is so beautiful it’s so unique. It’s so diverse and it should be celebrated and it should be taught . I wish both sides would learn about each other’s histories to understand each other’s walks of life. & also at the end of the day as black people no matter where we are in the world we will fight similar battles so why put each other down because of different geographical locations? You will see that we have a lot more similarities than  differences. Thank you Cooper for these interviews. They are very insightful."

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13. @mel-bp1kp
"Diluted and Polluted she is speaking for herself not all of us hayi that was wrong."
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"Hayi" = South African exclamation that means "No!" [addition and correction welcome.]

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14. @gwendolynallen3218
"I like how he pointed out their hypocrisy and delusions. Dressed like us but we are white washed. What does that make you? 😂"

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15. @FBA-Reddawg2.0
"Salute to the two lovely south African Sista's in the green and black that didn't pre-judge FBA's off something they so on t.v. obviously 🤦🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️as for the few misimformed S.A.'s who said black Americans are "diluted" y'all need to go get y'all minds right ASAP😂🤨🤷🏼‍♂️ we created and molded  our very culture in America that got it out the mud fr that our ancestors built from scratch ❤️ 🔱 🖤💪🏼 some of these ppl have no clue what they even talking about  whose "diluted"🤨 Educate yourself before you speak next-time, black Americans set the trends that the world follows respect that fact just pay homage ✊🏼💯 education was for free this time sheesh respectfully 🤨🧐✌🏼"

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16. @ConnorDelport-ff3dw
"Wow, the disrespect through ignorance is embarrassing. Black Americans have a culture of their own, they don't have to be tied to Africa to be an authentic"

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17. @mtuflani
"This is a great video if anything on the diversity of opinions. Everybody has a culture. Those who say that BAs have lost their (African) culture need to understand that they have their own "unique" culture now which was formed through great adversity and now the results have has greatly influenced the globe. And it is rich and BA's should stand on it with pride. Just facts. Let us celebrate each other's wins from both sides and unite. It is not that deep. We can learn a lot from each other when we share cultures and become even stronger as melanated people"

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18. @pholilemhlanga8664
"We need to dissect the term Culture. We understand African American's were ripped off their African heritage, cultural norms, spiritual practices etc. The "diluted" term comes from the unfortunate circumstances African Americans face.  We need a longer discussion and learn more about each other. This is a great topic Mr Jackson, Thank you for opening communication channels."

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19. @mzinformation8602
"I love my African people,  especially South African,  but many will never understand 2hat itnis to be black in America until they've been black in America.  It's not the worse thing in the world, but it's a terrible feeling knowing that you are hated, feared,  misjudged,  and misunderstood. You can't judge all based on what you see and hear in the media. The diluted polluted was rude. Lol. Of course we're diluted.  We've been mixed with the blood and accents of our ancestors masters. Lol. Come to America and go from state to state.  The accents are different and so are some of the ways. Meaning many blacks in different states maintained some of their African roots a d traditions, but we see ourselves as one"

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20. @benjaminsmith2287
"I don't think mixed is what is meant by diluted. I think Westernized Africans is what is meant by diluted. The Africaness of a people whose ancestry started in Africa has been diluted/polluted."

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21. @benjaminsmith2287 Feb 2025
"The "diluted" comment made sense to me. I took no offense to it. Your comment makes sense to me as well. But there is a non-mainstream Black American that is a great presence too and shows more depth IMO."

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22. @MissKittyKilpatrick
"Diluted and polluted. Some people just say any foolish thing."

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23. @oyunazone6283
"Wow, Calling us Diluted, Confused and people with no culture is craazzzyy Work. I mean, didn't our Music genres like Jazz, Blues, Hip Hop RNB and Rock N Roll not help shape music all around the world? what about the trends we set like our fashion and Dances, The Inventions we made, Or how our ancestors built AMERICA with their bare hands? What About being Literally One of the top athletics groups in the world today? Our Social, Political AND Resilience Influences that even helped Black south Africans?! Soul Food?!  Like I can Literally Go On. We Know Who we Are...its just sad that after all this, a lot of these people still act like they don't. Whether people want to act like they know us or not we're still gonna keep moving mountains. God Bless."

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24. @SoulBuddy2222
"I am a black South African, and I agree with you about black American culture. But please understand that they are talking about culture in the narrow sense of the word and not the broad sense of the word.

When they talk about culture here, they mean cultural heritage handed down from generation to generation, including language and spiritual practices.

Even though many black South Africans have been westernized or americanised, they still follow certain cultural practices, like honoring and celebrating their ancestors etc.etc.

In my opinion, there is no right or wrong, it is just what it is. For example, majority of South African Indians lost their languages and adopted English as their home language, but retained their Hindu and Muslim religions, Indian cuisine as well as other cultural practices. I am also aware that there is a very small African American group, who were less westernized than the majority (there is a unique name for them, which I've forgotten). Based on their lifestyle and culture, they would relate more to Africans than most black Americans. The same applies to some of the blacks in the Caribbean, who retained a lot of their African heritage."

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25. @cHAWELO3
"Wow didn't expect people to be offended by the word diluted. As a black South African woman, I guess I understand as it's like saying you're not Black enough. You also have to take into consideration we don't see culture the same. To me it seems Black Americans regards culture as music, food, clothes, style, people and pioneers who sacrificed and shaped the strong heritage that they possess. Black American culture is so strong and undeniable. I could be wrong in many ways and open to correction😂😂😂 . As Africans, culture means something else to us. It's bloodline, clan names, spiritual vibrations, ancient traditions, languages, ideas, a genesis, legacy,etc. The food, clothes and physical stuff is semantics. But our roots are who we are."

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26. @Pheloooooo
"I think we're confusing culture and tradition, food, music, arts, style etc is exactly what a culture is, tradition is something that's passed down from generations and they've done just that with theirs, the only thing that wasn't passed down was their language(but maybe we can say they do😂cause only black americans speak english the way they do)they have african spirituality in their black american culture too except many of them don't acknowledge that side, which is how that too might die one day but if you go to New Orleans, that place is africa for real😂so spiritual and see a lot of african culture. We have to be careful not to be disrespectful with terms like not black enough, those people didn't ask for the history they have and we SANs have a lot in common with them too, black is genetics and they are black guys🤷‍♀️I think we could learn from each other hey, they come here n teach us how to make money, we pour in where they can't like finding their language, tribe etc plus they lived in 1st world country seeing ⚪️ people do things to keep them oppressed, they could show us those loopholes here in Africa"

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27. @cHAWELO3
"@Pheloooooo  You make fair points. I have never been to the U.S which is why I gave my perspective of Black America from not only what I have seen on TV but history documentaries, proud Black American artists in different mediums of art, books,etc. I had no idea that African spirituality is practiced by Black Americans. While I can believe it's also hard to believe given some of the things they say about Africa and how a lot of people say they don't know much about the continent.

Just to clarify I wasn't saying they aren't black enough but that us making statements that they are diluted can be perceived as stating that they aren't "black enough". So I understand why someone would take offence to such statements even if we claim there is no ill intent behind those words.

Learning from one another is essential now more than ever as white supremacy keeps popping up. Our unity benefits ourselves and the world."

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28. @vividratsculpordwarf
"We’re all colonized.  There is no difference. Our cultures in Africa have a western influence"

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29. @Tytrades
"Most of us are diluted but you can say the same about many Africans"

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30. @JaimieWinston-l1l
"I think another word should have been used tho"

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31. @JaimieWinston-l1l
"I kinda understand , but it’s not our fault our history was lost"

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32. @jessharris8294
"As a black American..I’m not offended. I get it… our black culture is very western"

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33. @Onetoomanytimez
"Might I say as a black American(not by choice) to be referred to as diluted is beyond ridiculous. We have an African presence here and African communities and we don’t speak this way. I’ve worked with different Africans from different tribes and they are nice people. But they do say Africans feel like they are the REAL black people. I personally feel like it’s a blessing to be born in your native land where you are the majority. However I think they might be so privileged by their circumstances that they ignore how we actually ended up so “diluted”. And to not have to bother yourself with the details (our history)just proves my point even more. We have an identity crisis because there’s a war on race here and we are constantly reminded of who we should be instead of who we are. We spend more time defending ourselves than living our lives. It’s a constant fight and it’s exhausting. My wife and I talk about moving to Africa a lot to escape. She has Cameroon blood and I I’m (black,native Chickasaw, Cherokee, and I have some Irish blood as well). My family were apart of the 1921 race massacre here in Tulsa,Ok. We have culture here but unfortunately it’s riddled with violence and barbarism by the hand of our oppressors. 

You would be surprised to know how much black people here resonate with the African diaspora but I can tell by Some of their responses that they prefer we learn their culture even if they choose to ignore our history. They sound pretty intelligent for the most part but there is a lot of ignorance present as well. They seem to be so proud of themselves that intern they devalue us it’s a shame. Being African American is more of a geo-political term(by way geographical disposition)to us but you guys say it like it’s our identity or nationality . They would be surprised to know how white washed they sound as well. Our history brought us here but our blood lineages is stretched abroad just like you."
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I reformatted this comment to increase its readability. 

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34. @shaunstorm9967
"South African here , y’all aren’t diluted   Yall just evolved according to being in the heart of the west  . Y’all went through horrible things and yet you persevered . Sports , Music and Hollywood are your domains of dominance but bet that’s not all you have accomplished, your culture is mainstream and your contributions to building the Us’s military along with it’s scientific monopoly is a testament to your excellence and potential . We are honored to call you brethren and sisters . We pray and move towards a future we work and live among each other .❤"

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35. @TheIntrovert83
"Thank You. That comment made me angry. ❤🖤💚"

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36. @agangproductions1042
"I'm a SAcan who has travelled America a bit. Black Americans  have their owñ culture, survival skills and hustles. I think we should respect and understand that they had to create their own culture as Black Americans , we shouldn't expect them to be African cos they know nothing about that and there is nothing wrong with that, infact we should sympathize with them for being stripped of their names, heritage et al. I wish they can be open to learning more about other nations and stop being ignorant.  Traveling from their side could help a great deal ( even travelling within America could open their perpective a bit) .

Remember, America is good with markerting itself so, be open to learning about the real porverty striken, homelessness, joblessness America too. Aweee!"

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37. @SamraySimon-fy7sq
"Pan-Africanism all the way, y'all!"

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38. @alvinedwards434
"This was good! Especially that last interaction. Each one, teach one! Love that. I understand why some would think we lack heritage or we are "watered down", but what they may not understand is Black people in America influence much of what the world is doing. Style, music, and culture. The world follows our lead! I blame media though, because they only show one side of us, but there are many brilliant Black minds here in the States that dont get highlighted. This was dope though! Keep it up, Jackson! Salute!"

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39. @TsweloMolema
"Black Americans are African by blood and no one can take that heritage away from them. There's a shared narrative (in this video) that they are lacking in black culture “diluted.” I believe music expresses their blackness more than anything from the polyphonic jazz in New Orleans, African American Spirituals, songs that came out of slavery all resemble a part of Africa and the ultimate expressions of blackness (similarly in SA, miners created gum booting as a mode of communication that later became a form of expression and art, we have struggle songs, deeply invested in local forms of jazz, our church song that are sometimes European melodies translated to our languages.) We South Africans love our cultural food; black Americans have that too. There’s differences in the expression of our blackness but that’s what it remains… BLACK. I would’ve thought that the average South African would be more sympathetic in this regard. Great video, love the approach you’re taking in understanding the local culture."

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40. @Azrael-s2z
"For South Africans it’s easy to spot the difference between coloureds and blacks and black Americans. They aren’t the same, the reason many South Africans view them as “diluted” is a cultural thing. They see black Americans as being heavily influenced by western values and customs, they have formed their own culture in America. For me the problem is, media shows some of the worst parts of black Americans and they are portrayed as racist or self centred. Many people mistake what the media shows as the majority of black Americans, but I have met some black American immigrants and loved my interactions with them and as they were my clients I had many interactions with them for 3 years. They are definitely different than their african brothers"

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41.@tommytremble3910
"Imagine a South Africa calling ANYONE white washed 😂"

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42. @benjaminsmith2287
"To be honest, Black Americans are western people with a bit of Black, sometimes Africanish, spice on it. So, we kind of seem like other Americans to a lot of people outside of the USA."

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43. @uncommon1170
"I think the problem is South Africans have learned about African Americans through the media and Hollywood.  The media has predominantly painted us in a negative light.  I am so proud to be African American because we are multi faceted, we are extremely talented, we are resilient and I could go on forever! Now the problem as far as us relating to South Africans is that we come from the USA which has influenced the globe, everyone learns about our country but unless an American has a special interest in another country, we can go our whole lives never even thinking about most countries.  We live in a melting pot and can easily experience so many cultures at home in the states.  Most of us didn't even grow up knowing anything about  South Africa.  I am glad that content creators are educating us on this beautiful country.  I'm thankful to Coop for the hard work he's doing out there. God willing I'll be going this year."

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44. @johnnieolivier1010
"A very insightful video. It's sad that a lot of the young people you interviewed lack the knowledge of the history of black Americans. The influence of black Americans in music, fashion, politics, entertainment, etc is reflected world wide. Black American innovations is so underrated, it's sad because in every sphere of industrialisation the foot prints of black Americans is visible"

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45. @TraveLAttitudes
"The reverse is true regarding African Americans when it pertains to the history of Africa. I’ve come across countless AA who are clueless on the Colonization of Africa"

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46. @MelissaToday
"The dialogue would have completely different with older more experienced, more educated adults. But good to see what young people think."

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47. @cohesivesouls
"Exactly the youth perception is totally different!!!!"

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48. @adoro-ble521
"Yeah or a mix of both"

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49. @oohbabybloo
"These are smart young people. I guarantee if you ask the same question for non-college student not educated or poor the answers will not be the same. "

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50. @eporter8213
"I think we all need read more about each other’s history to get a clearer picture of Black Americans and South Africans."

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51.@junkworks-ok6sg
" "Diluted" & "polluted" is a vile way of describing people."

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52. @michaelsmith8947
"Crazy huh?"

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53. @leszjacobs1637
"It’s not to offend. Africans and black Americans are culturally different that’s just a fact"

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54. @Thesincereservant
"This is a great video on a topic which needs to be elaborated on.

Are we forgetting our forefathers was striped from their land, brought to a foreign land, renamed and brainwashed of their heritage.

Fast forward, the children of the enslaved return to the land, lacking knowledge of who they are, what tribe they are from and no knowledge of their heritage, just to be looked at as foreigners by their brothers and sisters. WE ARE ONE, and the day we get this is the day we can build in all areas of life.

Do Chinese return to China and they say you’re American Chinese?

Do Indians return to India and they say your British Indian?

It’s time our people wake up and unite because we are all one.

Acts 7:6

And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years."

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55. @Thesincereservant
"@ If a person is born in London but both parents are chinese, is that person Chinese or British?"

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56. @MsUbhejane
"@Thesincereservant  Chinese descent and British nationality. There’s a difference between Genealogy and Nationality. I don’t know when the confusion happened, this was never a question. Also the fact that you were born in a certain country doesn’t translate that you will automatically take that nationality. Countries have different laws regarding citizenship and nationality."

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57. @QLivin
"@Thesincereservant  Stop comparing us to immigrants. We have had an ethno genesis. We are American not African."

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58. @nanas1319
"When it comes to disclipline I think there is no difference. It is instilled from an early age to respect elders, take care of family and the elderly. I think based on that we can find common traits among the black americans and south africans."

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59. @tommytremble3910
"This chick called us “diluted and polluted” and said we weren’t the same (people). But let a black American be critical of Africa and speak about them like they’re less then and we’d never hear the end of it or how we’re so self hating. If we not the same like y’all keep saying then it ain’t self hating. It’s just hating ignorant lames who happen to share your skin tone. 🤷🏾‍♂️"

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60. @mfundisombhele3856
"In every society you will always find foolish people & some will be the opposite ...so I hope Americans wont take some foolish opinions that some people have given in this platform.As a South African, I am extremely disappointed by some terrible choices of words used to describe Black American as "'diluted,polluted & white-washed"  that was so unintelligent of them!"

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61. @thepresidentialking9190
"We are not diluted versions of you guys! You have been lied to! 🫳🏾🎤"

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62. @jkelly1418
"Diluted?! Polluted?! I see why FBA stand on business the way they do. Blacks/FBAs we really only have us 🤷🏾‍♂️ "

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63. @ramerehoward9964
"Why is that just about half of the option mind set is that Us Foundational Black Americans are confused cause we know who we are why are We always under the microscope, why are we the lineage everyone likes to give there opinion on 🤷🏾 it must be something unique about Us 😆"

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64. @jkelly1418
"@ bet, I don’t speak for every FBA, there might be some that share the opinion of the interviewees but y’all are gonna call us diluted/polluted because we established our own culture."

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65. @tolucontent3795
"That was 2 out of the 10 people he interviewed…  every Africa doesn’t feel that way …"

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66. @lozi4163
"Show me videos of black South Africans leaving SA to America and interviewing young black Americans in universities asking them about South Africans, i mean we saw how ignorant old black Americans were regarding the Tyla issue let's not act holly. Until we come there and interview your young people in colleges then you might need to get off your high horse"
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A number of African Americans were very critical of Grammy award winning South African singer Tyla saying that she is Coloured and not Black. The Coloured category in South Africa is very different than the old, no longer used referent "Colored" as it was used to refer to African Americans. Read comment #70 below.

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67. @TheIrieman15
"Can't have it both ways. You guys are the most visible and influence black culture so you will be the most talked about."

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68. @ramerehoward9964
"@TheIrieman15  we shouldn’t get so much negative energy from other melanated kindred when we have always shown support & respect to our melanated kindred now us FBA’s have got feed up with it and are in straightening mode."

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69. @mandisamthembu9230
"I don't think very highly of black Americans after they attacked Tyla  for calling herself Coloured. My thing is people were refusing to be teachable, it's a race that is valid here in South Africa.. Our traumas are really not share you guys.. Pissed me off honestly, but we move 😅"
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A number of African Americans took exception to Grammy award winning South African singer saying that she was Coloured and not Black. However, it's important to recognize that the South African referent "Coloured" isn't the same thing as the old, retired term "Colored" that was used in the United States as a referent for African Americans. Some Black Americans (prior to the 1980s) referred to themselves and tp other Black Americans as "Colored" as a way of emphasizing their mixed racial ancestry and de-emphasizing their Black African ancestry. Tyla wasn't doing that in June 2024 when she shared on "The Breakfast Club", a very popular African American radio show/podcast that that she is "Coloured in South Africa and Black in the United States".  https://ew.com/tyla-addresses-her-racial-identity-never-denied-my-blackness-8663341 

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70.  @shanicescheepers1487
"Love the video Coop. I think you should probably get an older crowd for this topic maybe 10+ older, these students are still trying to find themselves, some just came out of school and might still need to learn more about what culture is.

Also I think the coloured topic is another one that confuse Americans because not all coloureds come from black or white dads some of us already have a long bloodline of mixed males because I read some of the comments on the coloured opinions in the video and it’s still misinterpreted as u have a black dad, ur black💀

Speaking for myself here, my dad has khoisan ppl in his bloodline where a netherland white male came and then a xhosa and then his coloured dad and then him and it became coloured because when it cane to his dad a lot of the san, netherland white and xhosa traditions and believes  were intertwined with each other

My mother has khoisan, netherlands white and cape malay(her dad) family where a lot of muslim and indian believes are mixed so being coloured here is not as straightforward as black and white u guys are forgetting the indigenous and oldest group of people in South Africa, the San. That’s why I say being coloured comes from a long bloodline of different believes and cultures that were mixed and made one.

Just to add we kept the Scheepers(Netherlands) Surname because my grandfather was a son to a single mother(who was also a mixed race woman)"

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71. @Christocentric_Lifestyle

"Guys please don't take offence of anything being said here. These are random people expressing their opinions, and they don't necessarily stand for all of us. And most are pretty stupid to be honest."

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72. @KamanoPilane2
"They're not stupid but are kids expressing themselves on their experiences"

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73. @TheDiaryofaRhubarbie
"Diluted and polluted gosh that hurts. I want to react to this but, idk. I do agree we are not the same."

**
74. @Mattilainen45
"Black Americans qnd coloureds both generally have some European ancestry, so they're kinda similar in that regard."

**
75. @evamathebula4448
"The opinion that black American culture is diluted or that they don't have culture is very common among afrikan not just south afrikan and its very wrong I see this rhetoric on twitter all the time. I say this a s a South afrikan. First how they dance, music their dialect AAVE, how they cook the foods during thanksgiving different from others is the same country, their music, is CULTUREEEEE. n we have appropriated most of it globally. I'm not sure if everyone do it but when they get married they jump a broom. A tradition they created because their marriage wasn't recognised during them dayz. And we pay lobola.

Just because they can't trace their tribe from Ghana or Nigeria from literally multiple generations and live or speak what that trobe is doesn't mean they are uncultured. Traditions and cultures are created and evolve. We have also evolved in our culture and traditions as well. Does that mean we're diluted now? No. Anyway it's all❤❤❤that's my 2s"

**
76. @apextraxx2903
"@18:39 This is the problem. They don't seem to realize that in America WE ARE THE CULTURE. That's why you see people around the world dressing and imitating us. The food, the music, the CIVIL RIGHTS black people enjoy across the world started was achieved by us and advocated for by us in other places, MULTICULTURALISM was not a thing until we fought for it here and integrated and then heavily advocated to end apartheid in Africa, sports heroes that broke racial barriers and created a path for athletes to compete and make millions in America, the thousands if patents & inventions etc etc etc.....we are Not Africans living in America, we are Black Americans that built America...THE CULTURE AND THE FOUNDATIONAL PHYSICAL THINGS WERE BUILT WITH OUR HANDS... during and after slavery.

 

With that being said y'all have some adorable woman.😀"

**
77. @mamadeebuildsahouse
"Point of correction: it's not Wits it's Vats! Secondly those few people aren't good sample. I say this as a South African American who is Xhosa."
-snip-
This comment refers to the nickname of University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa.

**
Reply
78. @MsMak03
"@mamadeebuildsahouse  it’s pronounced ‘Vits’, like ‘Bits’"

**
Reply
79. @KamanoPilane2
"You can't say people aren't good example when bcoz they are not sharing same sentiments as you. What's proud South African American Xhosa? 😂😂😂 Waitse la re tshegisa."
-snip-
Google translate from Xhosa to English
"Waitse la re tshegisa" = "You've been making fun of us."

**
Reply
80. @mamadeebuildsahouse
"@KamanoPilane2  No, i understand that. I feel like there is always a versus being created which isn't helpful. Many South Africans aren't exposed to americans, they rely on what they see on television which is very skewed and often a misrepresentation. So, i wanted people to know that the sample does not represent us as south africans. And for me personally, I've lived with Americans for more than 26 years.  and ordinary americans and you will be shocked how lovely they are." 

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"Dougla" & Other Referents In The Caribbean For African-South Asian People

Joshold, June 19, 2023

In the Caribbean, there exists a prominent ethnic group of mixed African and South Asian ancestry known popularly as the Dougla people. The Dougla people makeup a significant portion of the populations of Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, and Suriname, however, similar communities also exist in the French Antilles, where they are referred to as the Batazendyen or Chapé-Kouli. After the abolition of slavery in the 19th century, thousands of peasant workers from India were transported to the Caribbean by European colonial authorities in an effort to maintain the profitable sugarcane and cotton plantations. The vast majority of these Indian immigrants were from Northern India, however, a significant minority also originated from Southern India and were members of the Tamil or Telugu ethnic group. These newly-arrived Indians were placed under indentured labor contracts and were promised money upon completion of their contracts. Although the Indians worked alongside emancipated Afro-Caribbean laborers in the plantations, they lived in separate housing residences and had limited interactions with others outside their own communities. Later on, some members of the Indian community began forming relationships with their Afro-Caribbean neighbors and later intermarried with them. This led to the formation of a mixed-race Afro-Indian population known as the Dougla people.

The term "Dougla" originates from the Bhojpuri dialect of the Hindi language spoken by many of the Indentured Indian laborers and literally translates to the words "Hybrid", "Blend", or "Two-necked". The term Dougla has long been used in the rural areas of Northern India and mainly refers to someone whose parents belong to different Hindu castes. In the Caribbean, the term "Dougla" refers exclusively to people of mixed Afro-Caribbean and Indian ancestry and generally carries a positive connotation, however, some consider the term offensive in certain contexts. The Dougla people have greatly enriched the general cultural landscape of the Caribbean by helping blend Afro-Caribbean and Indian cuisine, music, and dance. The Dougla people have also historically played a significant role in bridging the gap between Afro Caribbean and Indo-Caribbean communities by helping promote understanding and unity between the two communities.

Timestamps:

Introduction - 0:00

History - 0:24

Origin of the term "Dougla" - 1:27

Contributions of the Dougla People - 2:01
-snip-
I reformatted this video summary to enhance its readability.
-snip-
A commenter in this video's discussion thread noted that the narrator incorrectly pronounced the word "Dougla". According to that commenter, the word "dougla" is pronounced "doo-la". Another commenter on another YouTube discussion thread wrote that "dough-lah" is pronounced like "dough" (as in bread dough) + gla (as in glad".). A commenter on yet another discussion thread wrote that "Dougla" is pronounced "doe-la" (with "doe" being the English word for deer) .

The beginning sound for "dougla" isn't pronounced like the male name "Douglas" and has an entirely different etymology than that Irish name.

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube video about "Dougla" and other referents in the Caribbean for African-South Asian* people.

This post presents an excerpt from the Wikipedia page on "Dougla" and also presents an exerpt from another online article on this subject.

In addition, some comments about this subject from three YouTube discussion threads are  included in this post. 

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the producer and publisher of this embedded video. 
-snip-
*In this pancocojams post the referent "South Asian" primarily refers to people from India. "Some of the people who are now referred to as "South Asians" used to be referred to as "East Indians".

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/10/what-terms-south-asian-or-desi-mean.html for the related pancocojams post entitled "What The Terms "South Asian" And "Desi" Mean (With A University Journal Excerpt About Skin Color & South Asian/Desi People)".

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WIKIPEDIA PAGE EXCERPT
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougla_people
"Dougla people (plural Douglas) are Caribbean people who are of mixed African and Indian descent. The word Dougla (also Dugla or Dogla) is used throughout the Dutch and English-speaking Caribbean.

Definition

The word Dougla originated from doogala (दोगला), which is a Caribbean Hindustani word that literally means "two-necks" and may mean "many", "much" or "a mix".[1] In the West Indies, the word is used only for mixed race Afro-Indians.[2] The word has its etymological roots in Hindi, where "do" means "two" and "gala" means "throat," potentially referring to people who could speak Indian and African languages.

The 2012 Guyana census identified 29.25% of the population as Afro-Guyanese, 39.83% as Indo-Guyanese, and 19.88% as "mixed," recognized as mostly representing the offspring of the former two groups.[3]

In the French West Indies (Guadeloupe, Martinique), mixed Afro-Indian people used to be called Batazendyen or Chapé-Kouli and in Haiti they were called Marabou.

History

There are sporadic records of Indo-Euro interracial relationships, both consensual and nonconsensual, before any ethnic mixing of the African and Indian variety.[4]

Other Indo-based types of mixed heritage (Indo-Chinese (Chindians), Indo-Latino/Hispanic (Tegli), Indo-English (Anglo-Indians), Indo-Portuguese (Luso-Indians), Indo-Irish (Irish Indians), Indo-Scottish (Scottish-Indians), Indo-Dutch, Indo-Arabs and Indo-Amerindian) tended to identify as one of the older, unmixed ethnic strains on the island: Afro, Indo, Amerindian or Euro or passing as one of them.[5]

In Trinidad culture

In 1961, the calypsonian musician Mighty Dougla (born Cletus Ali) described the predicament of Douglas:[6]

If they sending Indians to India,
And Africans back to Africa,
Well, somebody please just tell me,
Where they sending poor me,
I am neither one nor the other,
Six of one, half dozen of the other,
So if they sending all these people back home for true,
They got to split me in two
— Split Me in Two

Notable Douglas*

Cletus Ali, Trinidadian musician, better known as Mighty Dougla

Tatyana Ali, Indo-Trinidadian/Afro-Panamanian American actress

Foxy Brown, rapper (United States; Trinidadian and Tobagonian background)[9]

Super Cat, Jamaican deejay[10]

Mervyn Dymally, Trinidadian American politician[12]

Special Ed, rapper (United States; Jamaican background)

Melanie Fiona, Canadian singer

Marlene Malahoo Forte, politician (Jamaica)[13]

Kamala Harris, Vice-President of the United States (Jamaican and South Indian)

Maya Harris, lawyer and writer (Jamaican and South Indian)

Lester Holt, U.S. news anchor and journalist[17][18]

Kenny J, calysonian[19]

Diana King, singer (United States; born in Jamaica)[20]

Sir Trevor McDonald, Trinidadian British news anchor and journalist

Nicki Minaj, singer, rapper (United States; born in Trinidad and Tobago)

Rajee Narinesingh, LGBT activist (United States; Trinidadian and Tobagonian background)[21]

Luciano Narsingh, footballer (Netherlands; Surinamese background)

Roxanne Persaud, politician (United States; born in Guyana)[22][23][24]

Yendi Phillips, model (Jamaica)[citation needed]

Thara Prashad, American singer and model[25][26]

Toni-Ann Singh, Miss World 2019 (Jamaica)

XXXTentacion, rapper[29]
-snip-
Pancocojams Post: This is a partial list of the Notable people whose names are in that list]
A commenter in the discussion thread given as Source #3 given below also listed the R&B singers Genuwine and Chili as Douglas.

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ARTICLE EXCERPT
From https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/guyanas-dougla-politics#:~:text=JUNE%2018%2C%202015-,Guyana%27s%20%27Dougla%27%20Politics,Gaiutra%20, published by Bahadur,2015
" "Dougla" is a slur meaning "bastard" or "mutt." It has its origins in Bhojpuri, the dialect of Hindi spoken by the majority of Indians who migrated as indentured laborers in the 19th and early 20th centuries. In North India, the word was used to describe someone with parents of different castes. It had the strong connotation of pollution, since orthodox Hinduism saw relationships across caste as illegitimate. In the Caribbean, the word was applied to the children of black and Indian parents. Its sting was no less in this transplanted setting.

Despite the shortage of Indian women in indentured societies, very few relationships developed between Indian men and black women. Mutual distrust began with the first encounter, on boats from India where West Indian Blacks were seamen and Indians the human cargo. Indian women were sexually exploited by seamen of all races, but the crew were typically Black or white. And suspicions of the other persisted on plantations in Guyana, where Indians lived under a pass system that restricted their movements and kept them residentially separate from Africans — and where British colonial masters divided-and-ruled by placing Blacks in positions of authority over Indians, as "drivers" or sub-overseers in the sugar cane fields and as the policemen who often broke labor strikes and protests, sometimes with fatal violence. Africans, meanwhile, saw the Indians as imported scabs, a cheap and exploitable labor force meant to undercut their own bargaining power as newly emancipated workers. Cultural differences — language, religion, food — kept the two groups further apart. Exceptions existed. I found some century-old examples in British Colonial Office archives of black and Indian couples, but for the most part the two groups remained sexually separate, and "douglas" continued to be stigmatized. It remains a difficult identity to negotiate.

In recent years, however, the word has been reclaimed, with scholars of the Caribbean from Yale to the University of the West Indies exploring what precisely the imaginative category "dougla poetics," a sensibility in music and literature based in mixed roots, might mean.”…

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SELECTED COMMENTS
These discussion threads are given in no particular order. The sources are numbered for referencing purposes only.

YOUTUBE DISCUSSION THREAD  #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4YUeSU2iR0 [This is the discussion thread for the video that is embedded in this post.]

1. @tonycheny2309, 2023
"Yeah, I'm from Martinique (French West Indies) and Indians are about 8 to 10% of the population. Most of them are Tamils and largely mixed with Martinicans of African ancestry. Their culture has permeated in the Martinican culture, most notably through our cuisine and their religious practices remain vivid ("bondieu coolie"). As you mentioned, mixed people are called "chapé coolie" (half Indian) and some prominent politicians are from that ethnic group (most notably the current president of the autonomous body that governs Martinique). I must also mention that Aimée Cesaire, great poet and politician was partly from Indian ancestry. The Indians in Martinique are generally referred to as "Coolies", but since a revival of the Indian identity that dates back a decade or more ago, the term has become a little bit pejorative and "Zindien", a word taken from Guadeloupean kreyol is preferred"

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YOUTUBE DISCUSSION THREAD #2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwvmFIcGDlQ&t=76s A Mix of Indians and Africans in South America? People of Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana, published by Masaman, Jul 15, 2017

The nations of Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana are some of the most fascinating places to learn about in the entire world, being a mix of mostly Indian and African culture in the continent of South America, but how did this come to be?
1. @mickeledodson1428, 2017
"As a dougla guyanese person, theres some slight corrections i would like to make.

1. the term "dougla" is not applied to all mixes

2. it is only used for persons of african and indian descent

3. there are other terms of persons who are biracial such as boufiyana for persons of Amerindian and african descent

4. among the guyanese the word "cook up" is applied to persons who are multiracial (3 or more ethnic races). this is done because the meal cook up requires alot of ingredient while the individuals have alot of ethnic mixes.

not a point more of a fun fact these terms have originated from the creole language spoken. and the term of dougla (once again african and indian) is also used in other islands such as Trinidad because of how common the mixture is.

it was a very insightful video"

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Reply
2. @valinis7086, 2018
"Essequibo river Amazona  as a Guyanese born and raised in Berbice I have heard of those terms before, in school we would refer to our mixed friends as " cook up"  not being disrespectful or rude but done in a joking manner, also bufiyana is a common term used alot I'm not sure how you have never heard it before"

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Reply
3. @michaelregis1015, 2019
"Mickele Dodson instead of 'cook up' Trinidadians say 'calalou'.(calalou is basically a veggie green gravy that's made up of so many ingredients)"

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Reply
4. @TJ-rn6ux, 2019
"@michaelregis1015  what about coolie sumtimes I get referred coolie but I'm not full Indian I'm mixed I have a curly hair and if I take of my glasses I look distinct of a dougla person"

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Reply
5. michaelregis1015, 2019
"Young General well if someone is calling you a coolie then they're probably trying to insult because the word coolie is a derogatory term here used against Indians. Either that or they probably think that even though you are a dougla, you look more Indian than African."

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Reply
6. @SheldonY14, 2020
"I know I'm over two years late. And thank you for the explanation. However I'd like to point out that although the word Dougla was/is used for people mixed with Indian and African/Creole, it is now used for everyone that has the Dougla hair or is mixed.  So a Dougla could also be Indian, Chinese and Black or Indian, Indonesian and Black or sometimes Indonesian and Black or Chinese and Black etc. The other words for African mix Amerindian etc. aren't really used very often. The two most famous words to describe people who are mixed in Suriname are either  "Gemengd" (which translates to Mixed) or Dougla (especially if they have the Dougla curly hair)."

**
Reply
7. @goldaganeshdin2269, 2020
"I grew up knowing that mix of Indian and African is termed "duglah". Amerindians and African mix called "buffiana" Portuguese and African "santantone" however from the 90s the terms aren't so prevalent only buffiana and duglah I hear now. When you're multiracial well I have heard many terms used"cook-up" mix up"and even "cosmopolitan" I think the country areas the terms were mostly used. I grew up in the country."

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Reply
8. @siegghynss5742, 2021
"in Suriname it used to be the term for indian mix african( in the past). now its used for any mix race, since we have more  races in Suriname than Guyana..you dont know what you see nowadays..like every child has different races in them. I love my country Suriname"

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YOUTUBE DISCUSSION THREAD #3
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lojfq6kFLP0 "The DOUGLA - The People of BLACK&EAST INDIAN HERITAGE", published by REIGNofTEARS, Aug 11, 2020 

1. @DipanjanPaul, 2021
"Hehe in India 'dogla' means two faced or double standard.

BTW the people shown on this video are beautiful and look very much like the Habesha people"

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Reply
2. @pearls1404, 2022
"Yes even in the Caribbean this word was original a slur from hindi. I personally do not like to be called dougla and I prefer mixed"

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What The Terms "South Asian" And "Desi" Mean (With A University Journal Excerpt About Skin Color & South Asian/Desi People)

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post presents excerpts from four online sources that can serve as an introduction to the terms "South Asian" and "Desi". This post also presents an excerpt of a journal article about skin color referents for South Asian/Desi people.

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.
These excerpts are given with the hope that visitors will read the entire articles.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/10/dougla-other-referents-in-caribbean-for.html for a related pancocojams post entitled ""Dougla" & Other Referents In The Caribbean For African-South Asian People".

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ARTICLE EXCERPTS
These excerpts are numbered for referencing purposes only.

ARTICLE EXCERPT #1
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia
"South Asia is the southern subregion of Asia, which is defined in both geographical and ethnic-cultural terms. As commonly conceptualized, South Asia consists of the countries Afghanistan,[7] Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.[8]

[...]

There is no clear boundary – geographical, geopolitical, socio-cultural, economical, or historical – between South Asia and other parts of Asia, especially Southeast Asia and West Asia.[22]

The common definition of South Asia is largely inherited from the administrative boundaries of the Indian Empire,[23] with several exceptions. The current territories of Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan which were the core territories of the British Empire from 1857 to 1947 also form the core territories of South Asia.[24][25] The mountain countries of Nepal and Bhutan, two independent countries that were not under the British Raj but were protectorates of the Empire,[26] and the island countries of Sri Lanka and Maldives are generally included. By various definitions based on substantially different reasons, the British Indian Ocean Territory and the Tibet Autonomous Region may be included as well.[27][28][29][30][31][32][33] Myanmar (Burma), a former British colony and now largely considered a part of Southeast Asia, is also sometimes included.[17][19][34] Afghanistan is also included by some sources.[17][19][35][36]"...

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ARTICLE EXCERPT #2
From https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/brown-desi-south-asian-diaspora-reflects-terms-represent-erase-rcna1886 Brown, Desi, South Asian: Diaspora reflects on the terms that represent, erase them

“They each have a place, but they don’t entirely encompass each of the others,” one activist said.

Oct. 6, 2021,By Sakshi Venkatraman
"Over the last several decades, the diaspora of the Indian subcontinent has been labeled, relabeled and lumped together too many times to count. Indian and Pakistani immigrants were known as “Black” in 1980’s United Kingdom. The U.S. census classified them as “white” in 1970, and a host of transnational solidarity movements have cycled them through lengthy acronyms and broad umbrella terms.

[…]

Meant to encompass people with roots in Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and the Maldives (and within each country tons of distinct languages and cultures), the term “South Asian” was introduced in transnational movements in the ’80s.

Indo-Caribbeans and the diasporas in East Africa were also ushered into the movement and are now considered part of the label, Maira said.

“South Asian,” “brown” and “Desi” are three that are dominant today. For some, they’re apt names to describe inherently similar cultures and a connected history. Others say they paint over a vast array of peoples who make up the subcontinent and its diasporas. Erasure is rampant, some say, and it happens inside “South Asian” circles as much as outside them.

The debate has raged online for years — when referring to the diaspora, should we be as specific as possible or as inclusive as possible? And is there a way to do both?

The three terms sometimes don’t do what they were intended to, experts say, and it’s important to note that they don’t always mean the same thing.

[…]

Denali Nalamalapu, 26, who is South Indian American, said “South Asian” isn’t a single identity. When she describes herself or others, she likes to be regionally specific so everyone feels their backgrounds are being fully acknowledged.

Saying she’s from Andhra Pradesh, the state in India from which her family originates, might go over some people’s heads, she said. So when she is asked about her background, she tends to identify herself as “South Indian,” and that feels both holistic and distinct.

Nalamalapu said she thinks those in the U.S. also tend to recognize only North Indian culture when they think about South Asians. “They’re like, ‘What’s your favorite Bollywood movie?’” she said. “I don’t watch Bollywood. I watch Telugu movies or Tamil movies.”....

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ARTICLE EXCERPT #3
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi
"Desi…is a loose term used to describe the people, cultures, and products of the Indian subcontinent and their diaspora,[3] derived from Sanskrit देश (deśá), meaning "land, country".[4] Desi traces its origin to the people of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh,[c][1] and may also include people from Sri Lanka, Nepal, the Maldives and Bhutan.[5][6][7]

Usage

The word Desi is widely used by South Asians, as well those of the South Asian diaspora, to describe themselves; those of South Asian origin, especially Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, use the term "as a means of asserting or reclaiming a sense of pride" in being South Asian, "particularly in the face of racism, discrimination, and stigmatization" of minorities in various parts of the world.[8] With regard to usage of the word Desi, Helen Kim writes:[8]

'Desiness imagines a more conhesive, pan-South Asian American community that goes beyond nation, class, and religion. Instead, a 'desi' South Asian American community comes together over its shared experiences of being positioned as non-White 'others', often cutting across differences in caste, class, religion, and gender. In the UK, the term 'desi' is commonly used to describe British [South] Asian forms of cultural production such as music, literature, and television programming. For example, shows such as Desi DNA, featured on the BBC and BBC Asian Network, cover all areas of current British [South] Asian popular culture such as film, music, and the visual arts, including fashion and style. Club nights that feature [South] Asian music such as bhangra and [South Asian] hip hop, as previously mentioned, are often billed as 'desi' nights. The Internet radio station DesiHits.com, rivaling the BBC Asian Network in cultural significance as well as in the number of young [South] Asian listeners, plays all the current [South] Asian hits, which allows one to browse online by artist and by genre, listing them under categories such as 'desi beats', 'Bollywood', and 'hip hop'.[8]

Among teenagers who have ancestral roots in the Indian subcontinent, the term Desi is "embraced to elucidate a new inclusive identity of South Asians in the USA, who participate as 'public consumers and producers of a distinctive, widely circulating cultural and linguistic forms'."[9] To this end, channels such as MTV Desi have recognized "the transnational nature of Desi youth culture, writers, producers, and VJs" and have shared "a range of topics relating to life in South Asia and the South Asian diaspora worldwide".[10]

"Desi" is sometimes perceived as offensive among some South Asian expatriates,[11] as they claim that it erases the diversity of cultural identities within the South Asian community,[12] and that it primarily identifies the dominant North Indian community while excluding other South Asian groups.[11][13] However, there are those who resist the label, citing historical Indian imperialism and cultural hegemony as reasons for their reluctance.[11] They believe that terms like "Desi" impose a homogenous identity and fail to acknowledge the pluralistic nature of South Asian communities.[13] Alternatives like "South Asian" or "Brown" have been proposed, but they also have their limitations and can be perceived as misleading or exclusive.[13] While some individuals find the term "South Asian" inclusive and encompassing, others feel it does not fully capture their specific backgrounds.[11] The complexity and diversity of the diaspora necessitate recognizing multiple identities and resisting the tendency to homogenize or erase particular communities.[13]

History

The word "Desi" comes from the Sanskrit word "Desh" meaning "country". The word "Desi" is used to refer to something "from the country" and with time its usage shifted more towards referring to people, cultures, and products of a specific region; for example, desi food, desi calendars, and desi dress."...

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ARTICLE EXCERPT #4
From https://scroll.in/global/975071/is-the-term-desi-offensive-some-south-asian-americans-think-so "Is the term ‘Desi’ offensive? Some South Asian Americans think so

‘Rather than solidarity, Desi feels like an imposition.’
Anisha Sircar, Dec 08, 2020
" "Is the term “Desi” offensive?

Despite its long-standing usage within the South Asian community around the world, over the last few years, many have increasingly stopped using the term.

Some believe that the term “Desi” refers exclusively to Indians and excludes other South Asians. They also claim that it seems to primarily identify a section of dominant, upper-caste Indians, erasing the gamut of other cultural identities.

Desi literally means native of a desh (“country”). In the context of South Asian diasporic communities in the US, it is used colloquially to refer to those of South Asian descent, invoking a pan-ethnic rather than nationally bounded category, according to a paper by Sunaina Maira, a professor of Asian American Studies at the University of California, Davis, and author of a book on South Asian youth culture titled Desis in the House.

Maira believes: “In India, it is sometimes used more pejoratively to index a ‘country-bumpkin’.”

Many prominent figures have joined the debate about how whether the term is an appropriate label for the South Asian diaspora.

Among them is a Mumbai-based man who runs the film-focussed Instagram page “Vintage Desi” anonymously. He said he has received several messages from Indian Americans in recent years for using the term in his handle.

“When I started my page in 2018, I didn’t really think too much about my handle name…” this person said. “But over the last two years, I’ve become more conscious of it and have been thinking of changing it.”

He said he had started the page to use vintage cinema as a way to make cultural theory more accessible.

But after his posts started getting traction, many Indian followers pointed out that the word Desi is “very North Indian”, he said. They drew parallels with the Facebook group “Subtle Curry Traits” that has come into the limelight for its racial stereotypes and largely North Indian, upper-caste representation.

It wasn’t supposed to be this way, this person said: “Desi wasn’t a term that was earlier used by the ‘urbane’ class that identifies with it now.” …

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ARTICLE EXCERPT #5
From Vinay Harpalani, To Be White, Black, or Brown? South Asian Americans and the Race-Color Distinction, 14
WASH. U. GLOBAL STUD. L. REV. 609 (2015),

https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/law_globalstudies/vol14/iss4/9

Washington University Global Studies Law Review

"[page] 609
 
INTRODUCTION: COLORING RACE

People often use race and color terminology interchangeably in common parlance. When the renowned African American scholar W.E.B. Du Bois stated that “the problem of the twentieth century is the problem of the color line,”1  he was referring to rampant and overt racism faced by African Americans and non-European peoples all over the world. Within the United States, color terminology often dominates racial discourse due to common use of color-based racial designations such as “Black” and “White.” Color is thus often used as a synonym for race,2  but while the two do overlap, color is also distinct from race as colorism is from racism.3 The two are

[page] 610

intertwined, and it can be difficult to tease apart. However, one group that illuminates the distinction between the two is South Asian Americans—peoples in the United States whose ancestry derives from the Indian subcontinent.4

 South Asian Americans are a group that does not fit neatly within the dominant racial categories of Black and White and have a racially ambiguous identity within the United States.5

This is partly because of the large variety of skin tones within the group. Because South Asian Americans have been classified in various racial categories and vary significantly in skin tone, their experiences can uniquely relay how race is related to color.

Recent events in the media illustrate South Asian American racial ambiguity and color variation. For example, in February 2015, the experiences of South Asian Americans gave new meaning to Michael Jackson’s song, “Black or White.”6  First, Louisiana Governor and 2016 Presidential hopeful Bobby Jindal quipped, “You mean I’m not White?” when asked about a commissioned portrait that depicted him with lightened skin tone.7

Jindal blamed the criticism of his lightened image on the liberals’ obsession with race describing the controversy as “silly” and calling for “the end of race in America.”8

Just one week later in Madison, Alabama, police officers beat and severely injured Sureshbhai Patel–a fifty-seven-year-old immigrant grandfather who had only been in the United States for one week–after a suspicious caller identified him as “a skinny Black guy.”9

These two incidents show that in different contexts, South Asian Americans can be viewed as “Black” or “White.” Other color labels, such as “Brown,” are also sometimes used for South Asian 

[page] 611

Americans.10 Contrary to Michael Jackson’s lyrics;11 however, it does matter how South Asian Americans are labeled—or how we choose to label ourselves.

Such contrasting racial identities are not new for South Asian Americans. Elsewhere, I have written in depth about South Asian American racial ambiguity both in my personal experience,12 and more broadly as part of the history of racial classification in America.13 Building on my recent presentation at the very successful and enlightening Global Perspectives on Colorism conference at Washington University in St. Louis,14 this essay focuses specifically on the role of color in delineating South Asian American racial identities. Race and racism are extremely complex phenomena, and skin color and colorism are only one aspect of racial hierarchy and racialization.15 Nevertheless, color is the most common visual feature and symbol associated with race, and the relationship between the two is revealing–particularly for a group such as South Asian Americans. As noted earlier, South Asian Americans possess a wide range of skin tones, but due to our ambiguous positions in

[page] 612

America’s racial landscape—a venue defined largely by the Black-White paradigm—our experiences complicate the link between race and color in interesting ways. This essay explores how color intersects with other factors—including both local and national politics—to determine the racial characterization of South Asian Americans.

First, Part I briefly examines the relationship between race and color more generally, and asserts that skin color is the primary physical feature associated with race. In many cases, color has become a metaphor for race, but race is a social and political status that involves many dimensions beyond color. Traditionally, racial status has been associated with ancestry, but it has evolved to incorporate many other components often based on stereotypes and other forms of status. This essay further argues that individual actors can make claims to racial statuses, or can have those statuses ascribed on to them by others,16 and that skin color–or in the case of Jindal’s portrait, presentation of one’s skin color–is a part of this process. Color is thus an important component of the social construction of race, but it is by no means solely or even primarily determinative of race. Rather, social and political factors related to the situation and/or local environment play a large role.17

Second, Part II analyzes the role of skin color in the characterization of South Asian Americans as “White.” It takes a historical approach, starting with the racial prerequisite cases—where Whiteness was a legal status necessary for naturalization as a U.S. citizen—and proceeding up to Bobby Jindal’s recent comment and the notion of “honorary Whiteness.”18 

This Part examines both claims and ascriptions with respect to Whiteness, highlighting how skin color has usually not been the determining factor in whether South Asian Americans were considered to be “White.”

Third, Part III considers skin color in relation to the characterization of South Asian Americans as “Black.” Ascriptions of Blackness onto South

[page] 613

Asian Americans can result from misidentification, which may have been the case in the aforementioned incident involving Sureshbhai Patel. Such ascriptions can also serve to denigrate South Asian Americans as the “other”—through association with Black people. This Part examines the role of skin color in such ascriptions, and also in claims to Blackness by South Asian Americans. Although the latter are far less common than claims to Whiteness or ascriptions of Blackness, this Part highlights a recent example: the revelation by Vijay Chokal-Ingam—the relatively dark-skinned brother of Indian-American actress and comedian Mindy Kaling19—that he pretended to be Black on his medical school applications.20 Similar to Whiteness, this Part concludes that, while skin color can play a role in characterizations of South Asian Americans as Black, other factors are more significant.21

Fourth, Part IV considers other color and race-linked identities attributed to South Asian Americans–including “Brown.” This Part illustrates that, for all of these identities, there are facets that are much more significant than skin color.

Finally, the Conclusion discusses implications of the above for understanding race and racism, and also colorism as a phenomenon distinction from racism—one of the important aims of the Global Perspectives on Colorism conference.22"...

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Race And Ethnicity - Cabo Verde And Cape Verdeans In The United States (online excerpts)

Edited by Azizi Powell 

This pancocojams post presents general information about Cabo Verde and several excerpts about Cape Verdeans in the United States.

Pancocojams visitors are encouraged to read these entire articles. 

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owner.

Thanks to all those whose research and writing are quoted in this post. 

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INFORMATION ABOUT CAPO VERDE (formerly named "Cape Verde")
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde
"Cape Verde ...or Cabo Verde...; Portuguese: [ˈkabu ˈveɾdɨ]), officially the Republic of Cabo Verde, is an archipelago and island country in the central Atlantic Ocean, consisting of ten volcanic islands with a combined land area of about 4,033 square kilometres (1,557 sq mi).[10] These islands lie between 600 and 850 kilometres (320 and 460 nautical miles) west of Cap-Vert, the westernmost point of continental Africa. The Cape Verde islands form part of the Macaronesia ecoregion, along with the Azores, the Canary Islands, Madeira, and the Savage Isles.

The Cape Verde archipelago was uninhabited until the 15th century, when Portuguese explorers discovered and colonized the islands, thus establishing the first European settlement in the tropics. Because the Cape Verde islands were located in a convenient location to play a role in the Atlantic slave trade, Cape Verde became economically prosperous during the 16th and 17th centuries, attracting merchants, privateers, and pirates. It declined economically in the 19th century after the suppression of the Atlantic slave trade, and many of its inhabitants emigrated during that period. However, Cape Verde gradually recovered economically by becoming an important commercial center and useful stopover point along major shipping routes. In 1951, Cape Verde was incorporated as an overseas department of Portugal, but its inhabitants continued to campaign for independence, which they achieved in 1975.

[...]

Cape Verdeans are descendants of Africans (free or slaves) and Europeans of various origins. There are also Cape Verdeans who have Jewish ancestors from North Africa, mainly on the islands of Boa Vista, Santiago and Santo Antão. A large part of Cape Verdeans emigrated abroad, mainly to the United States, Portugal and France, so that there are more Cape Verdeans residing abroad than at home."...

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ONLINE ARTICLE  EXCERPTS

EXCERPT #1
From https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/07/06/cape-verdeans-face-identity-problem-in-us/48c820db-a050-45b4-a633-f3dc776351e0/ Cape Verdeans Face Identity Problem in U.S.

By Kathy SawyerJuly 6, 1980
"They came to this country from a miniature melting pot of their own -- the descendants of white Portuguese and black Africans. Theirs is an ethnic tapestry shot through with threads from the Chinese, the Jews, the Moors, the Indians.

For the 300,000 Cape Verdeans in the United States -- nearly as many as in the Cape Verde Islands -- the age-old question of identity is particularly profound.

"My children never knew they were black unitl they went outside the neighborhood," said Donna Cruz, a waitress in the historical waterfront section of this former whaling capital. "The way I was brought up, you'd never say you were black. You were Portuguese. You didn't hang around with Negroes . . . Now we're taught to have pride."

Cruz is a Cape Verdean-American, one of the thousands who emigrated to the United States over the last century to escape the perpetual poverty of their drought-swept island country off the west coast of Africa. They refer to their exodus as the only large-scale "voluntary," or non-slave, emigration from Africa.

[….]

Stretching along both sides of Akushnet Avenue, about 12,000 Cape Verdeans live in a neighborhood of clapboard and shingle homes and blocks of public housing. Jukeboxes in bars feature Cape Verdean "mornas," or laments of farewell, and women cook a rice-and-bean dish called jagcida or, in American slang, "jag."

Yet so few Americans know about them that when they venture outside their familiar neighborhoods -- here, in Pawtucket, Providence, Boston and a few other places -- as Cruz says: "It's very interesting trying to explain who we are and what we are."

[…]

In keeping with the great paradox of the modern American "melting pot," a contingent of Cape Verdeans traveled from New Bedford to Washington last fall to try to persuade the U.S. Census to give them their own category in the 1980 count. They wanted it based on their ethnic background as Cape Verdeans, not as race.

They won a concession: instructions on the long form only, asking citizens to be specific when they identify their origins and mentioning Cape Verdeans as an example.

But the burden of defining themselves remains with the individual Cape Verdeans.

Along "the avenue," (Akushnet was the name of the whaling ship that carried Herman Melville to sea and helped inspire "Moby Dick"), you can hear many variations, usually in good-natured tones, on their color question.

You hear about Cape Verdeans who, regardless of skin color, consider themselves white and will "hit you with rocks" if you consider them otherwise. You hear of the young Cape Verdean doctor who lives in the suburbs of Boston with his white wife and their children, and who comes home alone to visit his dark-skinned relatives.

You hear about the rising generation of Cape Verdeans, many of whom have taken up the banner of black pride, seeking refuge, as their parents often see it, in an unambiguous identity. "They feel left out; they want to belong somewhere," said one mother.

You hear about the tensions between the new arrivals and the "old guard." The newly arrived immigrants, intent on the economics of survival, are sometimes bewildered by the raised ethnic consciousness of their Americanized countrymen. Other new arrivals are disappointed by Americanized Cape Verdeans who have forgotten their native culture altogether.

Occasional outbreaks of gang violence between young blacks and Cape Verdeans occurred until the '60s focused national attention on civil rights issues. Then things began to change.

"We have a lot of the same problems, a lot of talk about over a beer, you know," said one young Cape Verdean, a plant worker, who said he thinks of himself as an Afro-American.

"Being a Cape Verdean is very, very complex," said Deonilda Rosa, an American-born Cape Verdean who works in the New Bedford office of Rep. Gerry E. Studds (D-Mass.) "You can get a different perception from each person you talk to."

At Alfred J. Gomes Elementary Mary G. Andrade teaches immigrant children who speak Portuguese and their own unwritten dialect Crioulo, about their culture as well as how to speak English as a second language.

She teaches them about both their Portuguese and their black African sides, she said, explaining; "I tell them we come in all colors, hair textures. We all have our own characteristics, our blackness, our whiteness, our in betweeness. "

[...]

Anyone asking for unemployment figures or other information learns that Cape Verdeans cause special headaches for local bureaucrats and public officials.

"It's a hell of a mess and there are no simple answers," said William Tansey of the state unemployment compensation office in New Bedford. He ran through a litany of the changing government code system as it might apply to Cape Verdeans: Portuguese/European, black, caucasian, "other than white," and so on.

"I have two Cape Verdeans in my office," he said.

 "One has two Cape Verdean parents and calls himself 'nonwhite, minority' and the other has one Cape Verdean parent and one from the Aozres. She calls herself 'white.' But there's hardly any difference in the color of their complexions."

 There was a time he sighed, "when 'nonwhite, other' kept everybody happy."

 In the days of school desegregation, some recalled the discomfiture of officials who had to go into classrooms and "visually determine" whether their schools were racially balanced.Their difficulties were compounded when some American blacks claimed to be Cape Verdeans.

In the struggle for jobs in the area's factories, fish processing plants and on merchant ships, Costa said, employers tend to lump all black faces together, regardless of what they call themselves.

Generally, Costa said, Cape Verdeans share equally with blacks and other low-income Americans the problems of unemployment, youthful drug addiction, low pay and lack of education. And they count under federal minority hiring requirements.

Some employers reportedly prefer to hire Cape Verdeans over Afro-Americans because they consider them "less black" but they still count under minority requirements. And some employers say they prefer Cape Verdeans because they not only count as minorities, but also are bilingual and can help in dealing with the large Portuguese population in New Bedford and nearby areas."....

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EXCERPT #2
https://globalboston.bc.edu/index.php/home/ethnic-groups/cape-verdeans/ Global Boston,
retrieved January 14, 2023

CAPE VERDEANS 
Settled by Portuguese in the mid-fifteenth century, the Cape Verde archipelago consists of ten arid islands off the coast of Senegal in West Africa. As the Portuguese imported slave labor from the mainland, the islands soon became a center of the slave trade and a provisioning point for ships traveling along the African coast. In the mid-nineteenth century, severe drought conditions and poverty drove many former slaves and mixed-race Cape Verdeans to seek work on whaling ships plying the Atlantic. Some later settled in the whaling port of New Bedford, setting in motion a migrant stream to southeastern Massachusetts that peaked between 1890 and 1921. Coming mainly from the islands of Brava and Fogo, the early migrants were disproportionately male, often migrating seasonally on packet ships run by Cape Verdean companies.

Migration declined dramatically in the early 1920s under US immigration restriction and tight Portuguese controls on Cape Verdean emigration. Even after passage of the 1965 Immigration Act, emigration rates remained low; it was not until the Republic of Cape Verde won its independence in 1975 that foreign visas became more widely accessible. By the 1980s, Cape Verdeans would be migrating across Europe, Brazil, and the US, but particularly to New England, which was well known because of its historic connections to the islands.

The new immigrants differed in many ways from the old. Their island origins have been more diverse—they come not only from Brava and Fogo but also from Saõ Tiago, Saõ Vicente, and Saõ Nicolau. The gender ratio of the new wave has been much more balanced, and the newcomers also include the more prosperous and educated as well as the poor.

Settlement

During the first wave of migration, most Cape Verdeans settled in New Bedford, as well as in adjacent areas of southeastern Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Over the course of the twentieth century, a small migrant community developed in Boston, but most of the city’s Cape Verdean population has arrived since 1975. Coming earlier than other African national groups (who mainly arrived after 1990), Cape Verdeans are the city’s largest African group and the sixth largest foreign-born group overall. Constrained by racial discrimination and segregation, Cape Verdeans have settled in predominantly black and Latino areas of Roxbury and Dorchester, especially in the area between Dudley Square and Upham’s Corner. The city of Brockton, an older industrial city located between Boston and New Bedford, has been another key settlement area, with Cape Verdeans making up roughly a third of the city’s foreign-born population in 2014."...

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EXCERPT #3
From https://vc.bridgew.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1024&context=jcvs

Journal of Cape Verdean Studies

Manuscript 1024

Where Blackness and Cape Verdeanness Intersect:

Reflections on a Monoracial and Multiethnic

Reality in the United States

Callie Watkins Liu

This item is available as part of Virtual Commons, the open-access institutional repository of Bridgewater State University, Bridgewater, Massachusetts.

© 2019 Callie Watkins Liu

Where Blackness and Cape Verdeanness Intersect: Reflections on a Monoracial and

Multiethnic Reality in the United States

Callie Watkins Liu

Stonehill College, USA

"Abstract

As a Black American and fourth generation Cape Verdean American growing up in the United
States, I’ve found that race and ethnicity are frequently conflated in ways that obscure my social reality and identity or put two integrated parts of myself into opposition with each other. In examining my own ethno-racial experience, I use critical race studies and identity construction to disentangle the structural concepts of race and ethnicity and build a frame work for understanding my own integrated existence within the United States. ….

[…]

Frequently Cape Verdean scholarship focuses on the Cape Verdeans in the Cape Verde
islands, or immigrant experiences and Diaspora communities. Immigrant related research might address questions of integration, identity or challenges such as deportation. The broader research looks at the transnational relationships across the diaspora and as they relate back to Cape Verde.

There is very little work, in the United States based research, that moves past the initial
immigration questions to look at life “post-integration.” This leaves out the experiences of
families like mine, where I am the fourth generation in the United States yet maintain a Cape
Verdean and American identity.

[…]

The False Dichotomy of Race or Ethnicity – Working to See Each and Both

Born to a Black American Father and Cape Verdean American mother, I was raised and
always identified as Black (or Black American)  and Cape Verdean, yet at different moments in my life people have asked me if I consider myself “Black or Cape Verdean?” This question
confused me tremendously, as though the person had just asked whether I was left handed OR did I have two feet? Two coexisting parts of myself unnecessarily and suddenly put into
opposition with each other. Over time, I’ve come to believe that much of this confusion comes
from how the distinct yet interrelated social constructions of race and ethnicity are often
conflated into one construct.

Ethnicity is commonly understood in the US as culture and heritage related to ancestry and place of origin. Though it may correlate with phenotypic traits (such as skin color, body type, hair texture), ethnicity is not defined by phenotype. Such an identity comes from a combination of heritage and internal assertion of belonging to that group. For example, my Cape Verdean ethnic identity comes from my ancestors being Cape Verdean combined with my own internal association with this ethnic membership. It is internally and not relatively defined.

Ethnicities are not mutually exclusive. The association with one ethnic heritage does not
automatically negate the validity of another heritage within the same person. Further, this
identity is in no way affected by the presence of someone else’s ethnicity. I am no more or less Cape Verdean if I stand next to a person who is ethnically Greek, Nicaraguan or Nigerian. My relationship to this identity only varies depending on my relationship to the Cape Verdean culture and community.

Ethnicity is not necessarily hierarchical or polar, while race is inherently so. Race in the
United States is an externally constructed (through policy, norms, practices and culture), 
polarized power relation based on phenotype that everyone is placed into. White only exists,
because there is “Black.” The sole definition of white is to not be black and to have more access to power, privilege and resources relative to Black or non-white populations. The US is a white supremacist society, where white, heterosexual, Christian, wealthy, cis-gendered men, are supposed to be at the top, and everyone else is supposed to be varying degrees of below that.

Though the US, like every society, is based on intersecting power structures, race is a dominant social structure and you generally do better, the closer you are to white and the further you are from black.

Even though the white supremacist racial hierarchy is socially constructed, it still carries
very real implications for people’s lives. Although the first Africans to arrive in the United States had many different ethnicities, generations of living this racialized existence together has generated a Black American ethnic culture, contingent upon yet distinct from the initial African ethnicities. For example, as Vilna Treitler describes in her book,

 “If I asked you to identify a group of people and told you that they are presumed to be
dark in skin tone, were largely concentrated in the Southern United States prior to 1970;
believe their people descend from persons who traveled from the African continent
involuntarily even if, more often than not, they cannot pinpoint the national origin of their
ancestor with any certainty; identify in great numbers with the Baptist faith; founded the
music tradition known as ‘jazz’ and are known for ‘soul music’ and ‘soul food’; and that
other Americans tend not to intermarry with them, your mind would conjure up the ethnic
group “African Americans’ (2013, 21).”

This reality that Treitler describes is unique to the United States and to this racialized group. Even though ethnicity is usually rendered invisible when talking about Black Americans, the Black American reality is that of a specific ethnic group constructed within the United States.
Thus, my own identity is the integration of two US based ethnicities, Cape Verdean American
and Black American.

While there are no externally imposed laws or policies regarding ethnic identification, there have been very rigid (yet frequently contradictory) ones with respect to race. The specific requirements of what made someone “black” in the US would vary state by state, but the “one drop” rule where a single drop of black ancestry made a person black is a prevalent ideology.

Regardless of how light or dark your own skin may be, if you have parents or any ancestors
considered black, you are black. In contrast, whiteness is lost once there is any non-white mixing because white is defined by “purity”. This means that even though there is lots of phenotypic variety in the United States, and long history of “miscegenation”, those nuances are ignored because they are erased from the national narrative.

There have been some fluctuations in terms of how groups are racialized, but the overall
system stays intact. For example, historically the Irish and Italian immigrants were considered
“ethnic whites” and “non-white”, but now they are considered white. Similarly, Arab Americans
who had been racially considered white, are recently becoming racialized into a distinct “nonwhite” category.

Though non-black groups in between may shift closer to one end of the racial spectrum or the other, Black and White are always in structural hierarchical opposition to each other with white always being on top and groups considered Black are never re-racialized into the White category.

In contrast to the US system, Cape Verdean national identity assumes mixed populations (racially and ethnically) and phenotypic diversity. The rigid racial system in the US is often an unwelcome and invasive experience for immigrants who come from places, like Cape Verde, where the social hierarchy is not based on such stringent racial categorizations.

 […]

Ethnicity is distinct from race, but ethnicity is used to racialize, or racially categorize, groups in the US and place them in the social hierarchy. Groups are categorized as White or nonwhite, then they may be Black or perhaps a racialized “other”. Racialization occurs based on phenotype, lineage and even place of origin. Regional racialization occurs when whole geographies along with anyone from that geography carries that racialization.

 For example, Latin American countries are racialized as “non-white” or “Brown” and even though a person may be racially white within Latin America, once they are in the United States, they are placed in the non-white category of “Latino.”

Cape Verdean population and families have vast phenotypic variety that challenge US based racial assumptions –like many other communities in the US and globally (e.g. Latin America, The Caribbean or Creole communities in the United States) – however, given that Cape Verde is considered part of Africa (which then defines you as Black) and almost everyone of Cape Verdean descent has (or is assumed to have) at least “one drop” of black blood, Cape Verdeans in the US would always be considered Black and not white.

Making Cape Verdean and Black racially synonymous, while ethnic particularities remain.

This structural reality of racialization may decide a person’s racial designation, yet 
individuals may or may not internalize that designation. Within my own family, even though
Cape Verdeans would generally be considered Black, the degree to which individuals might
embrace that (if at all) would vary. For example, my light skinned Cape Verdean grandmother
was angry that my mother had come home from college with a dark skinned Black American
boyfriend, and even when I was coming to understand race as a child, this same grandmother loved when I said she was white because of her skin tone, while my politically racialized mother who strongly identified as Black cried when I said she looked white. As Black Immigrants from the same immigrant community, each person navigates these dimensions differently. Everyone, in the United States has a race and an ethnicity though one may be more salient than the other for a variety of reasons. Race is an identity that is largely externally constructed and defined. If everyone else in society perceives you as part of that racial category, then that is part of your racialization regardless of how you see yourself. Ethnicity is largely an internal construction process, primarily determined by individual assertion as opposed to external imposition.

To ask the question are you “Black or Cape Verdean”, is to take a racial framework (polarized and hierarchal) and apply it to an ethnic question (multiple and not inherently hierarchical). To assert Cape Verdeanness is to primarily assert ethnic identity, even though that ethnicity has been racialized as Black. To assert Black Americanness is to primarily assert a racial identity, even though it also carries cultural and ethnic attributes. Even if the weights may shift more one way or the other, racial and ethnic identity are both present and do not have to exist in opposition to each other.

Phenotypically, I have Brown skin, with characteristics, such as hair texture and nose shape that clearly mark me as a Black person in the US. I have Black American ancestry from my Black American father. I am both perceived and understand myself as a Black person, in addition to the ways in which Cape Verdeans are automatically racialized as Black in the US.

Given my, Cape Verdean American mother, personal engagement with my Cape Verdean heritage and phenotypic diversity within Cape Verdean populations, I am also accepted and understood as Cape Verdean or Cape Verdean American. Because of my racial and ethnic embeddedness, I relate to, but am not limited by either of the social structures. Instead, I draw on both to expand how I relate to myself and others.

[…]

The US supremacy system has created a false dichotomy of race and ethnicity (through
policy, norms, and national narratives), where the presence of one frequently implies the denial or erasure of the other. This dichotomization and erasure can generate distance and hostility within and between Black and Cape Verdean (or Black immigrant) communities. Asserting ethnic identity may be interpreted (or many in fact be) denying Blackness, and immigrant communities may shun blackness in a range of implicit and explicit ways. Though I have experienced my identity in an integrated way, this has required that I push back on erasure or antagonism within my own communities. On my Cape Verdean side, I was frequently simply swept into the Kriola identity and the Black Americanness would mostly be ignored. While on the Black side, a person might respond “Naw girl, you just black,” in response to me naming my Cape Verdean identity.

I would suggest that Black immigrants are not simply rejecting Blackness but that this
might be a place where race and ethnicity are being conflated in this resistance. There may be both an ethnic resistance – to refuse the loss of ethnic connection in the face of an assumed assimilationist immigration trajectory in the United States – and, or, a racial resistance – the refusal to be categorized or see oneself in terms of stereotypes and perceived Blackness.

Black resistance to ethnic naming may be more nuanced as well. Given the myriad of ways that our Black existence is constantly being invalidated, threatened and undermined, along
with the persistent denial of Black ethnicity, and polarized racial structure, it’s not surprising that affirming ethnicity can be experienced as racial invalidation. By decoupling race and ethnicity and interrogating these resistances further I believe we would discover a more multifaceted understanding of these experiences. Historically, global liberation movements have played an important role in bridging racial and ethnic resentment fostered by the dominant power systems.

The1950s through the 1970s was a time of asserting positive identities in the African Diaspora. Cape Verde was entrenched in struggle for independence while Black Americans in the US were asserting their own Black racial identity and fighting for their own independence.

As Cape Verdeans were going from Portuguese, to black Portuguese, to Cape Verdean; Black Americans were going from colored, to negro, to African-American and Black31. Each striving to construct an identity and sense of self separate from the colonizer or oppressor. The cultural revolutions of the mid twentieth century brought many Black immigrants into to new racialized consciousness and connection to Black America.”…

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