Translate

Showing posts with label folk processing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label folk processing. Show all posts

Saturday, November 1, 2025

More Examples Of "The Spades Go Two Lips Together") with some comments about the meaning of the word "spades" in those rhymes

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision - May 30, 2026 [title change]

This pancocojams post presents more examples of "The Spades Go Two Lips Together" and similarly titled children's recreational rhymes.

These examples are gleaned from various online sources, including visitor comments from several pancocojams posts about these rhymes or from a pancocojams post about the meaning of the "the spades" referent.

This post also includes some comments about the meaning of the word "spades" in those rhymes.  

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, socio-cultural  and recreational purposes.

 All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Click "https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2020/10/examples-of-childrens-rhyme-two-lips.html for the 
October 25, 2020) "Examples Of The Children's Rhyme "Two Lips" Or "Tulips Together" (also known as "The Spades Go").

and 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html for the December 11, 2012 post "The Real Meaning Of The Spades Go and The Space Goes".  

****
THE EVOLUTION OF THE CHILDREN'S RECREATIONAL RHYMES THAT ARE NOW KNOWN AS "THE SPADES GO" OR "THE SPACE GOES"
Based on my informal study of these children's recreational rhymes, I have reached the conclusion that the title of the rhymes that are known as "The Spades Go" or "The Space Goes" were changed as a result of 
children's folk processing* from "True Love Forever" to "Tulips Together" and then to "Two Lips Together."

Eventually, White American girls began chanting "The spades go" in the beginning of "Two Lips Together" rhymes and several other recreational rhymes. Eventually, as a result of folk processing, some people (probably because they didn't understand the meaning of the words "the spades go" began using the words "the space goes". 

My position is that the words "the spades" in those rhymes is a neutral or positive referent for "Black people". In the context of those rhymes, that referent is meant to be non-offensive. "The spades go" is an acknowledgement that the words that follow and the chanters' accompanying actions are the way that Black American girls chant and perform those rhymes. As such, "the spades go" could be considered as praise for Black American girls.

I believe that the children who chant/ed "the spades" in this rhyme are/were unaware of the fact that in the wider American society, "spades" was and still is [in 2025 as I write this comment] used
 by some non-Black people as a derogatory referent for Black people.

*Folk processing" refers to ways that spoken words/lyrics or written compositions are changed because of accidental miss-hearing or miss-remembering. In those cases, the actual words are changed to words that similarly pronounced or spelled. Those versions are then circulated without people realizing that they weren't the actual words for those words/lyrics.

"Folk processing" can also be done on purpose. However, in those cases once those words or lyrics are changed, people may also not be aware that those aren't the original words in those compositions. 

****
WHEN WERE "THE SPADES GO TWO LIPS TOGETHER' (and similar titles for these rhymes) FIRST CHANTED?
The 
earliest example of "The Spades Go Two Lips Together" rhymes in the United States that I have found [as of the publication date for this 2025 pancocojams post] is 'the early 1950s"..

That example is quoted as D#1 in this 2025 pancocojams post.

I don't know whether these versions were chanted earlier (or at all) in other countries such as Great Britain, Canada, and Australia.  

**** 
SELECTED EXAMPLES OF  "THE SPADES GO TWO LIPS TOGETHER" (also known as "The Spades", "The Spades Go", or "Two Lips Together".

These online sources are given "as is" in no particular order. These comments/examples are given numbers under their online source.

A.https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=81350&messages=262&page=3 "I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes"

1. DebbyOlsen, 29 Dec.06
"Wow. I just joined and read this thread for the first time. Fantastic stuff--I've actually been thinking about these things lately as I raise my own children--I've been teaching them elimination rhymes from my childhood (near Boston, 1970s).

[...]

Now, the one I can't remeber much of but would really love to find someone who remebers started,

The spades go two lips together
Tie them forever
Bring back my love to me.
What is the meaning of this?
For all the fellows I've kissed
They tell the story
the story of l-o-v-e."...
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's note: The "..." in this comment are examples and comments about other recreation rhymes

**
2. Azizi, 29 Dec 06

"Greetings,  Debbie Olsen

Welcome to Mudcat. 

I'm interested in a several of the rhymes that you posted, but would like to concentrate on the one which starts with the line "the spades go."

I found a couple of examples of 'The Spades Go" [for want of a better name] on this website: http://streetplay.com/discus/ Girl's games; Clap and Rhyme section

Here's one example:
"The spades the spades the spades go iny miny popsa kiney i love bomaragn a hop a scoth a liver roch a peach a plum i have a stick of chewing gum and if u want the other half this is wut you say: amen amen amendiego sandieago bostn bruins rah rah rah boo boo boo criss cross apple sauce do me a favor get lost while ur at it drop dead either that or lose ur head bang on trash cans bang on tin cans i can u can nobody else can sitting on the bench nuthing to do along comes some one..cohey coochey coo! andu tickle the other person"
-Sally on Friday, May 6, 2005

-snip-

And here's a comment that I posted on that website on Sunday, February 26, 2006 :

"And btw, with regard to another rhyme printed earlier on this site [and seen elsewhere], in my opinion, regarding the introductory phrase "The spades the spades the spades go", "the spades" means "the Black people".

I don't think it's meant to be offensive. Nor would it be taken that way because if it is recited nowadays, few people would "get" the original meaning."

-snip-

I believe that referent is from the spades suit in the game of cards and/or from the familiar [at least in my experience] saying "Black as the ace of spades". In my opinion, "the spades go" initially alluded to the source for the rhyme [ie. Black children] and serves as an introductionary statement that this is the way the rhyme was performed by those children. However, to continue my theory, as a result of the folk process, that meaning of that line was lost.

**
Debby, your version of that rhyme says "Thee spades go two lips together". Check out these two examples that I found from the Archive through June 8, 2000 of the Girl's games; Clap and Rhyme section of that streetplay website:

"One I remember is:
Tulips together twilight in heaven bring back my love to me. It was probably 2 lips - but I was an

innocent kid back then."

-Allison on Monday, April 12, 1999 - 06:31 pm

**

"Allison:

I remember that ... didn't it start ...

The spades go tulips together
twlight in heaven
bring back my love to me?


Or something like that?

Two girls would hold hands, arms outstretched in front, and sway back and forth while singing the verses... :)

There was another one with this line~

shimmy shimmy
coco pop
shimmy shimmy pop
Any memory jogs here?? :) "
-Butirfli@aol... on Tuesday, April 13, 1999

-snip-

I'm curious as to which was the original phrase "two lips" or tulips"? I guess we may never know, but either way what a wonderful example of folk etymology."
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note November 1, 2025: 
"folk etymology" is a previous term for "folk processing".

**
3. Mo the caller, 30 Dec 06
"
I'm interested that you don't find 'spades' offensive Azizi. Nobody uses it in the UK except the sort of people who say 'w-gs'* and 'ni-ger'.*"
-snip-
*Pancocojams Editor's Note Nov. 1, 2025:
Those words are fully spelled out in that comment. 

**
Azizi, 30 Dec 06
"Hello, Mo.

In this recent Mudcat thread, Religious Trains & Chariot Songs [https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=97553] I wrote that I flinched when I [unexpectedly] came upon the n-word. What made me flinch was my knowledge of that word's use as a derogatory individual & group referent for Black people. However, I recognized that that the person who posted that example of a spiritual that included the 'n word' did so because he believes in the importance of presenting these songs with the words that were written down and/or recorded when they were first collected. Given that context, after I acknowledged my reaction to the n-word [in that example],I moved on to the topic at hand.

In my opinion, context is highly important. Even if a person's motivation is historical research and analysis, I would take great exception to spirituals and other songs being publicly sung without a substitution of another word for the 'n-word'. See my comment on 29 Dec 06 - 02:19 PM about the continuing use of 'Black slave dialect in performances of spirituals' in that same Mudcat thread. And yes, the inclusion of the n-word is one of the reasons why I don't like many hip-hop songs.uch a song-or any song including hip-hop songs.

That said, my energy would be spent up if I flinched everytime I read the 'n word' on certain Mudcat threads. I supposed I had that visceral reaction that time because -even though that particular thread included quite a number of spirituals-I hadn't prepared myself to read that word. If I see that a thread is about minstrel songs or spirituals, I know that I will probably read dialectic examples, and so it is my choice to either avoid those threads or prepare myself psychologically to read the n-word and those long retired [if they were ever totally real] Black dialectic phrasings. I believe that I have stated my aversion to the 'n-word' enough times on this discussion forum that my aversion is known. But I felt the need on that Train/Chariot thread to say that my reaction is more than mental-it is physical & emotional.

The word 'spades' doesn't have even half the same negative reaction for me as the 'n word'. I believe that this is because I have so little experience with the word 'spades' being used as a referent for Black people. I barely recall its use [among Black people toward other Black people] in the 1960s and 1970s]. And I personally have no knowledge of 'Spades' being used as a referent for Black people nowadays.

See this entry from Urban Dictionaryhttps://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spade
[warning-that page includes some profanity]:
"spade: A derogatory term for an African American, more commonly used in the post-Civil War era than today"

However, given your post, Mo, I gather that "spades" is currently used more often as a negative referent for Black people in the United Kingdom than in the USA. Is this what you are saying?

Having said this, I felt that I should include a message on that streetplay website and on this thread as a 'FYI" cautionary note to those who recite "The Spades go" rhyme-or teach this rhyme to children-that some people [I was thinking of Black people, but I can also understand how some non-Black people] might take exception to this referent and see it as being offensive, even if no offense was intended.

You will also note that in that same post on this thread that mentions 'the spades go two lips together', the poster mentions the '"Eeny meeny miney moe" rhyme and its' use of the 'n word' instead of the word 'tiger'. I decided to ignore that word and focus on what I considered to be a more worthwhile use of my energy & time-the presentation & analysis of examples of children's rhymes that are similar to 'The Spades Go' and had other similar lines.

Also, let me say this-because I'm a 'product' of the "Say It Loud, I'm Black And I'm Proud" movement, if [because] the word 'spades' as used for Black people refers to our dark skin color-then if I disliked that term, I would also be saying that I dislike black skin color. You see what I'm getting at?

Perhaps if I were a Black Briton who heard or read the term 'Spades' being used as a subsitute for the 'n-word', that word spades would be as loaded a term as the N-word is to me. Thankfully, I haven't had that experience.

Btw, Mo, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to think out load about the differences in my approach to these two words.

Happy New Year,

Azizi"

**
5. GUEST,susan, 19 Jul 10
"I remember parts of this song:

The spades go two lips together
tie them together
bring back my love to me.

What is the me-ee-eening
of all these flow-er-er-ers
they tel the sto-or-or-y,
the story of love,
from me to you.

I saw the ship sail away,
it sailed three years and a day,
my love is far far away,
and I love him so, oh yes I do.

My heart goes bump ba de dump bump,
bump ba de dump bump,
over my love for you.
You are my one and only,
I love you passionately,


I never thought about the meaning of these lyrics when I was young. Now when I search to find the lyrics I see posts referring to them as racist. I wonder though whether this was a song by black people about slaves being sold and separated. Does anyone know the rest of the lyrics and/or know the origin of this song?"
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note: Nov. 1, 2025: This Mudcat discussion thread includes examples of and comments about a number of children's recreational rhymes. "The Spades Go Two Lips Together" is only one of the rhymes that are featured in that discussion. That discussion thread is still open for comments.t folk music forum. The latest comment (as of November 1, 2025) is from June 24, 2021

My last comment on that discussion thread was in 2012 about a recreational rhyme that has nothing to do with "The Spades Go". I haven't been active on Mudcat since 2014 when I voluntarily left that forum, in part, to focus on this pancocojams blog and my other blogs. 

****
B.  Comments From Google Groups
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=19961227054600.AAA09110%40ladder01.news.aol.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain "alt.culture.us.1970s google groups  Subject: Old children's song, Category: Miscellaneous"

1. Asked by: hippo-ga, 27 Jul 2003 
"I used to play a game with my friends when we were kids.  You used to

clap hands and sing a song called "The spades go tow lips together,

twilights forever, bring back my love to me."  Can you help me find

the rest of the lyrics/verses?  Thank you."

**
2. Answered by:pinkfreud-ga on 27 Jul 2003
"Here's a longer version of this hand-clapping song:

 "The spades go
 Two lips together
 Twilight forever
 Bring back my love to me
 I love you one and only
 I love you personally
 And that's the story
 Of L-O-V-E love
 My heart goes
 Bum-ba-de-ump-bump
 Bum-ba-de-ump-bump
 Over the likes of you
 I saw the ship sail away
 It sailed a year and a day
 My love is far far away
 And I love him too
 Oh yes I do
 Cha cha cha
 Cross cross cross
 Applesauce
 Pumpkin pie"

**
3.
Request for Answer Clarification by hippo-ga on 27 Jul 2003 

Thank you so much...but the version I was looking for continued

with..My pinkies go rat tat tat tat tatetc..  where did you find these

lyrics?  Maybe I can continue...

**
4.Clarification of Answer by pinkfreud-ga on 27 Jul 2003 

Many thanks for the five-star rating and the nice tip!

 

I couldn't find any lyrics with pinkies going rat tat tat, but this

sort of chant tends to have different words in different locations.

Maybe the pinkies were limited to your geographical area and period of

time. It appears that the most common feature of all the variants is

the "bring back my love to me" part. Everything else is subject to

change, but love stays stable!"

**
5.
 lapi [gmail address deleted], March 14, 2018, https://groups.google.com/g/alt.culture.us.1970s [another link for this google groups page]

"Spades was always my favorite. Online, I cannot find the version we did, which is similar to the others, but different.


The spades go
Two lips together
Tie them forever
Bring back my love to me
What is the Me he ha ning
Of all these flo ha ha wers
This is my sto ho hory
My story of love
From me to you.

My heart goes
thumpatity thump thump
thumpatity thump thump
Over the site of you
You are my one and only
I love you per son ally
This is my sto ho hory
My story of love
From me to you.

My eyes go
blinkety blink blink
blinkety blink blink
Over the sight of you
You are my one and only
I love you per son ally
This is my sto ho hory
My story of love
From me to you.
Cha cha cha
**
6. pinkfreud, from rec.gardens newgroup
"Here's a description of the hand motions associated with this song,

from the last newsgroup post linked above:

"In Brooklyn, the elementary school girls would play hand games at the same time that
they chanted a rhyme. Two girls would face each other, then pat each other's hands in a particular pattern, which had to be learned. There were several patterns, which were taught from girl to girl.

For example, the right hand would face up and the left hand down for the first pat. Then the girl
would clap, and reverse the orientation of the hands. Then both hands would face upwards, then outwards, etc.

The facing girl had to do the reverse motion so they could pat each other's hands. Each pat was in time to the chanted rhyme.

The rhymes were nonsense verses, chanted in a singsong voice.

Here's a variant that is quite different, but with some of the same lines:

 I saw a ship sail away
 For a year a month and a day
 Now my love is far far away
 And that's the story of love from me to you.
 What is the meaning of all these flowers?
 They tell the story,
 And that's the story of love from me to you.
 Who shall I marry, Tom, Dick, or Harry?
 I'll marry Tom, but he's in Vietnam.
 I'll marry Dick, but he's too sick.
 I'll marry Harry, that's who I'll marry.
 And that's the story of love, from me to you.
 Where shall we live? In tiny Spain or in...
 Par-ra-ra-ri-ri, Par-ra-ra-ri-ri, Par-ra-ra-ri-ri-ri
 Dreams Do Come True..


(It seems likely to me that the "Par-ra-ra-ri-ri" at the end of those

lyrics is the beginning of the word "Paris," since there was a

previous mention in the song of "Where shall we live" and "Spain.")"...

****

C.  http://hubpages.com/hub/Recess-is-BACK-Hand-Clapping-Games, "Recess is BACK Handclapping games
1 .ratgirl, May 10, 2010 
"Does anyone know a hand clapping song called (I think?) "Ace of Spades"? It goes like this:

Ace of spades goes two lips together,
down and forever
bring back my love to me
what is the meaning meaning meaning
of all the flow-ow-ow-ow-flowers
they tell the sto-o-o-o-story
the story of love from me to you


Then I think it goes back to Ace of Spades, but I don't remember if there are any more verses, and I don't remember the specifics of the hand clapping.

Anyone out there know anything more?

Thanks!!!"

****
D .https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2020/10/examples-of-childrens-rhyme-two-lips.html "
Examples Of The Children's Rhyme "Two Lips" Or "Tulips Together" (also known as "The Spades Go"), October 25, 2020

[Pancocojams Editor's Note: Except for comment #8, comment #10, and comment #15, these comments don't include my "thank you" responses or any other comments that I made in this discussion thread. This compilation also includes an example of this rhyme that was sent to me by email..

1.Anonymous, September 21, 2022

"I grew up in Kansas City in the early 1950s. We clapped to:

In Spain it's
Two lips together
Twilight forever
Bring back my love to me
What is the mee ee ee eening
Of all of these flow ow ow owers?
They tell the sto oh oh oh ree
Of true love
From me to you"

**
2. 
Anonymous, September 28, 2022

"I remember playing this game in the first grade, Levittown NY, 1960

The spades go tulips together, my loves in heaven, bring back my love to me
What is the meaning of all the flowers, they tell a story, a story of love from me to you
I got a new car, it was shiny red
It tipped over, my husband dropped dead, from me to you chachacha
I can’t believe I remember this…. It was all sung to very sophisticated clapping games… so of the girls were amazing and never missed a beat"

**
3. Anonymous, October 12, 2022
"
The version I learned (white, Long Beach NY, circa 1970), the hand slap/clap motions were slap clap slap clap [switch] slap (repeat), which got substituted by fist bumps over the words, "boom bah di yump bump, boom bah di yump bump", first two (index and middle) fingers sliding on the words, "tit-tatty-tit tat, tit-tatty-tit tat", index fingers tapping each other on the words "click clacky click clack, click clacky click clack", and fingers tapping one's forearm over the words "you get a spanking, you get a spanking".

The rhyme I learned was called "The Ace of Spades" and it went

The spades go tulips together, twilights forever, bring back my love to me
What is the me-e-e-e meaning of all the flow-ow-ow-ow flowers
They tell the sto-o-o-o story
The story of l-o-o-v-e, l-o-o-v-e, l-o-o-v-e love.
My heart goes boom bah di yump bump, boom bah di yump bump over the love of you
My tears go tit-tatty-tit tat, tit-tatty-tit tat over the love of you
My sticks go click clacky click clack, click clacky click clack over the love of you.
The boys say, "Go break a window, go break a window" over the love of you
The girls say, "Why did you do it for, why did you do it for", over the love of you
The boys say, "To get a spanking, to get a spanking" over the love of you
The mothers say "You get a spanking, you get a spanking" over the love of you
The fathers say "Go out and play now, go out and play now" over the love of you.
The spades go tulips together, twilights forever, bring back my love to me [freeze sequence]

The freeze sequence rhyme we used for this was
Criss cross, applesauce, siddery cider, freeze with the arm motions
Cross one hand to opposite shoulder, cross the other hand to opposite shoulder, place the fist of the first hand on one's waist, place the fist of the second hand on one's waist, place the first hand on the opposite knee, place the second hand on the opposite knee, rapidly remove both hands and freeze."

**
4. 
Anonymous, April 30, 2023
"
I think this is probably a combination of different rhymes, but this is how we said it. This was white kids on Long Island (Garden City) in the late 50s, maybe very early 60s. At the time, I had no idea what "spades" meant.


The spades go tulips together
Tie them together
Bring back my love to me.
What is this thi-ing called love?
I do not kno-ow my love
It is the sto-ory of
The story of
Itsy bitsy, teeny-weeny
Abobobolini
Hopscotch, dominoch
There goes Liberach
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
Two-three-four
Let's get the rhythm of the opposite countries
Czechoslovakia
Boom steady boom
Yugoslavia
Boom steady boom
Let's get the rhythm of the opposite numbers
2, 4, 6, 8
Who do we appreciate?
When I get mad, I get frisky
When I get frisky, I drink whisky
When I drink whisky, I fall down!"

**
5. Anonymous, July 2, 2o23

"My siblings and I were talking late last night and somehow got onto clapping rhymes. We remembered one we learned in the late sixties and early seventies in East Aurora, a suburb of Buffalo, NY. It’s different than any others I’ve found google searching this morning, but similar in some places:


The spades go
Two lights together
Twilight forever
Bring back my love to me

What is the meaning, my love
I don’t know, my love
This is the sto-ory of
The story of:

Eenie meanie
Chacha cheenie
Ooh la
Batcha beenie
Ooh la
Double atchie
There goes Liberace!

The first part had vertical, then diagonal cross clapping, but the second was just patty cake as fast as possible."

**
Reply
6.  Anonymous, July 3, 2023
"
One more demographic note, we moved to Aurora, Colorado, a fast-growing suburb of Denver, in 1974. We taught the song to our schoolmates since no one knew it yet."

**
7. 
Anonymous, July 4 2023
"
We are white, of German/Irish heritage and were Catholic in a Catholic community in Buffalo.we were not from there originally. Our parents were from Albuquerque and Southern Illinois. In Denver we were no longer Catholic and the community was mostly white with some African Americans and no particular religious identity that I was aware of.


The reason I looked up the song, and found this conversation, is because it suddenly occurred to me as we sang it, 40-some years later, that the word “spade” might not be nice. It had never occurred to us. When I thought about it at all, I wondered what playing cards had to do with it, but the rest of the song was nonsensical too. I don’t remember knowing any black people at the time we learned the song."

**
Reply
8. Azizi Powell,July 4, 2023
"
Thanks, Anonymous for sharing those memories here on pancocojams.


As I've noted in this post, I don't think that most children who chanted this rhyme with the words "the spades go" knew the history of the word "spade" being used as a referent for Black people and that referent is rarely used now and I don't consider it a slur when I come across it in children's rhymes.

For more information about the words "the spades goes" or "the space goes" in children's rhymes, click this link for the pancocojams post entitled "The REAL Meanings Of "The Spades Go" & "The Space Go" In Playground Rhymes
http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html

Thanks again.

Best wishes!"

**
9. Anonymous, October 11, 2023
"
Oh wow, I had no idea it was the SPADES go! The version I knew (from early 1990s Manhattan, very multiracial Catholic School) was with a lot was a hand holding/swinging and clapping game (often played with more than 3 people) that went:


"the space goes, two times together i like the weather, bring back my love to me.
What is the me-ee-ee-eeaning of all the flo-ow-ooowers
that tell the sto-oo-oory
the story of:
L for lover boy
O for other Boy
V for victory,
E for enemy -

we had a fa-aa-aamily car
it was red and shi-iii-ny
my mother went i-i-i-in it and she dropped dead!
we had a fu--uu-uu-neral
it was very saa-aa-aaad
when it was oo-oo-oover
i was very glad

...I wish I remember the rest! Thank you for doing this!"

**
Reply
10. Azizi Powell, October 11, 2023
[Pancocojams Editor's Note: November 1, 2025: This is my second reply to this commenter]
"I meant to add that I still think that "the space goes" is a folk processed version of the words "the spades go" (meaning "This is the way that Black people say & do this rhyme"). I believe that's the case because the words "the space goes" doesn't make any sense."

**
11. Anonymous, December 30, 2023
"
I was just remembering this as an absurd song from my elementary school years and decided to search, found this very enlightening thread. I remember it from the an Orthodox Jewish school in Queens, NY in the early 80s. It makes sense that the parts about love would have been toned down as it spread through our very prudish school. But anyway, the whole thing makes no sense. Still, it had interesting hand motions so it was pretty popular.

The words as I remember:
The space goes
Two laps together
Twilights forever
Bring back my love to me!
What is the mea-ea-ea-ea-ea-ning
Of all the flo-o-o-o-owers
They look so pre-e-e-e-etty
They tell the sto-o-o-o-ory
The story of
E-el Oh Vee Ee (x4) Love!
My heart goes
Bumpetty bump bump (x3) bump!
My sticks go
Stick statty stick stack (x3) stack!
My pinkies go
Pink patty pink pank (x3) pank!
My guns go
Pee-ee O W (x3) POW!
I don't remember the motions except that we bumped balled fists for "bumpetty bump bump", index fingers for "stick statty..." pinkies for "pink patty .." and shaped our fingers like guns for the last part."

**
12.Azizi Powell, January 8, 2024
"
Here's a version of "Two Lips" ("Tulips") also known as "The Spades Go" that was sent to my email address on January 6, 2024 by Jen. Thanks for that version, Jen and thanks for including demographic information.


"Great to find you, I have a different version of the children’s hand slap rhyme then I seen mentioned (to my surprise!) the version I sang in the early 90’s in Somerville, Massachusetts is:

“The spades go two ways together tied up forever bring back my love to me
what is the meaning of this
of all the flowwwwers and gifts
tell me the stoooooory of L -O -V- E
my boyfriend bought a new car
he painted it red with a star
he got in an accccccident now he’s dead oh yes he’s dead
we bring him flowwwwwers on april showwwwers we like him better undressed oh yes undressed”🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

I was very surprised by tulips and twilights and no dead boyfriends lol."

**
13. Anonymous, September 23, 2025
"
I'm a white Oma in my 60's who used to play "the spades" at my Michigan Episcopal summer camp c. 1970. We loved it cause we could play w 2 to 50 girls (I think our record was 50 anyway - Huge circle!)

Our version went
The spades go
2 lips/tulips together
Tie them forever
Bring back my love to me.
What is the me-e-e-ning
Of all these flow-ow--ow-ers
They tell the S-t-o-r-y
The story of love from me to you
My heart goes
Thumpity thump thump (x2)
Over the thought of you (flat hand goes to fist for thumpity lines)
You are my 1 & only
I love you passionately
This is the stor-or-or-y
The story of love from me to you
I saw the ship sail away
It sailed a year & a day
My love is far far away
From the city of love from me to you

At that point we usually got the call for dinner or whatever, so while there was 1, maybe 2 more verses, I don't remember them

I tried doing the spades w my co-grandma a while back, but we couldn't coordinate our 2 versions"

**
Reply
14. Anonymous, September 23, 2025
"
P.S. we thought the spades referred to the playing cards"

**

Reply
15. Azizi Powell, November 1, 2025
"
Anonymous, for some reason, I'm just seeing your comments/example. Thank you so much for sharing this version of "The Spades". From what you wrote, I think you played it as a group hand slap/elimination game similar to how "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" is sometimes played.

You mentioned that your grandmother had a version of "The Spades" and her words and the way she remembers playing it was different than yours. That's not surprising.

I agree that most people think that words "the spades" in these rhymes are from the deck of playing cards. I think that's the origin of that (usually derogatory referent) being used for Black Americans -since the spades are the color black in decks of playing cards.

As I mentioned before in this post and elsewhere, I don't believe that children mean anything negative when the say "the spades go" at the beginning of a recreational rhyme. HOWEVER, children shouldn't get comfortable with that referent and start calling Black people "spades".

Thanks again!"

**
16. Anonymous, October 3, 2025
"I have been looking for this rhyme for a long time. I learned it as a hand clapping game at a my day camp in Suffolk County, Long Island in the mid 1970s. I never associated the word “spade” with African Americans. Here is the song as I remember it, but i cannot remember it in its entirety.


The spades go 2 hearts together
Twilight forever
Bring back my love to me.

What is the me-e-eaning of all the bites on your neck
They tell the stor-or-ory the story of love, from you to me.

When we get ma-a-arried we’ll have some
chil-il-ildren
Maybe 1 or two-oo-oo-oo or 3 or 4 or maybe more.

Where shall we li-i-i-ive
In sunny Spai-ai-ai-ain

that’s it. Does anyone know this version or remember how it ends?"

****
E.https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html 
The REAL Meanings Of "The Spades Go" & "The Space Go" In Playground Rhymes", November 1, 2012

[Pancocojams Editor: In this post I state my belief that in these children's recreational rhymes- the beginning phrase "the spades go" is a referent for Black American girls. I also state my belief that in those children's recreational rhymes that begin with the words "the space goes", those words are a folk processed form of "the spades go".

With the exception of comment #4 that is found belowi, I'm not including my "thank you" responses and other my comments that were published in that 2025 pancocojams discussion thread. These are only selected comments from that post's discussion thread]. 

1.
Akua Lezli Hope, January 15, 2016

"My recollection of The Spades Go is from Harlem on West 144th between 7th and Lenox and Hoe Avenue, the South Bronx, ( the two places I played, home and at my grandparents') circa 1960. From the clapping games where your palms were placed on another's, and according to the rhyme chanted you either slapped your partners palms or clapped your own between in syncopation, switching whose palms were on top or bottom as another part of the performance: 

The Spades go (hold hands and swing)

Two lips together (slap clap slap [switch] slap [switch] slap)

Twilight forever (slap clap slap [switch] slap [switch] slap)

Bring back my love to me ( slap clap slap [switch] slap [switch] slap [switch]slap)

What is the Me-e-ea –ning ( hold hands, swing. slap clap slap [switch] slap,[switch] slap [switch] slap)

of all these Flo-ow-ow –wers ( hold hands, swing. slap clap slap [switch] slap,[switch] slap [switch] slap)

They tell the Sto-or-ory ( hold hands, swing. slap clap slap [switch] slap,[switch] slap [switch] slap)

The story of l-o and v-e (hold hands, swing. slap clap slap [switch] slap [switch] slap)

l-o and v-e (slap clap slap [switch] slap [switch] slap)

l-o and v-e (slap clap slap [switch] slap [switch] slap)

love cha, cha cha (slap , swing, swing, swing)"

**
Reply
2. Anonymous, July17, 2024
"Akua, I began learning this hand clapping rhyme in my last months of elementary school in 1970 in Jackson Heights, NY. I landed on this page when I tried recalling the words and movements. Thank you for confirming my memory of, "twilight forever" instead of the frequently-cited line about tieing things together. And thank you for reminding me of the hand movements."

**
3. The Reader, February 27, 2016 
"Our rendition of this started with the words "In Spain." Isn't that funny? This was in Nashville in the 1960s. And this part went this way:

Shimmy shimmy puff
Shimmy shimmy puff
Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy Cocoa Puff!


Granny granny sick in bed
Called the doctor
This is what he said
Granny granny you're not sick
All you need is a backside Kick!

 

 

Pretty awful!!!"

**
Reply
4. Azizi Powell, February 27, 2016 
"Hello, Reader.

Thanks for sharing that rhyme with me and pancocojams visitors. I'm glad that you included some demographics (where and when you remember this version of what I call "The Spades Go" rhyme. It seems likely to me that "In Spain" is a folk processed form of "The Spades" and probably was an attempt to have those words make sense to the chanters."...

**
5. Nancy, July 28, 2019
"I was born in 1948 and grew up in Maplewood NJ. I am white and Jewish. Anyway, we played the hand clapping game The Spades. There was no racial means to it then. We had two verses, one beginning The spades go two lips together and the other My heart goes thumping thump thump. I remember very clearly walking by myself to schoo at the age of ten and making up a third verse:Oh tell me where is my lover, where is my lover,bring back my love to me. I saw a ship sail away.My love is far far away. I’ll wait ten years and a day. I love him true oh yes I do. I taught it to the other girls and three years later I heard it in summer camp in Massachusetts. I swear this is true. I still make up songs and parodies all the time. I guess things have to start somewhere. Thought you might be interested.."

**
6. Unknown, October 25, 2020 
"I grew up in Cranford, NJ and learned the version cited way above as "Two lips" probably in '63 when I was in third grade and learning clapping games. This was a high skill clapping game, because the pattern was harder, the song was longer and changed melody. While the pattern stayed the same (slap clap slap clap reverse slap) we changed how we held our hands - my heart goes was done with fists, and I saw the ship sail away was done with two fingers. I am a folksinger and music teacher. I was doing a residency in a school in Roxbury, MA in the 80's on songwriting, and the girls in the class were sharing a clapping game with me - a version of shimmy-shimmy cocoa puff - and I was about to share "The Spades" with them when it suddenly struck me what spades could mean - I had always thought it was cards, like a fortune teller! I quickly switched to "I woke up Sunday morning", and put it aside to think about later. I agree with you, I think it refers to the coolness and skill of the girls of color from who it was learned. I am still weeding out of my repertoire the songs that I have recently learned have racist roots, and will continue to do so as we learn more. love this thread!"

****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

Thursday, October 23, 2025

What Does "The Folk Process" Mean In The Context Of Children's Recreational Rhymes?

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post presents a definition of the phrase "folk process".

This post also presents information about "folk processing" as it relates to children's recreational rhymes.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric information.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

****
WHAT DOES THE "FOLK PROCESS" MEAN?
SOURCE #1
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_process
"Folk process

In the study of folklore, the folk process is the way folk material, especially stories, music, and other art, is transformed and re-adapted in the process of its transmission from person to person and from generation to generation. ,,,

History

The phrase was originally coined by musicologist Charles Seeger, father of the folk singer Pete Seeger,[2] but the underlying concept goes back to 1907, when Cecil Sharp[3] observed that the transmission of folk songs and the forms they took when they were collected and attested was the result of three factors: continuity, variation, and selection.[4] These factors were expanded on in 1954 by the International Folk Music Council, which wrote that:

Folk music is the product of a musical tradition that has been evolved through the process of oral transmission. The factors that shape the tradition are: (i) continuity which links the present with the past; (ii) variation which springs from the creative impulse of the individual or the group; and (iii) selection by the community, which determines the form or forms in which the music survives.

[…]

Mass culture and the folk process

Through the folk process, the subjects of folk song and narrative are adapted to better suit the times; lyrics can be added, or removed; parts that are no longer understood can be re-interpreted or discarded. The result is a new bit of folklore that the next generation will continue to preserve in its new form. The folk process started to become problematic, first, when it began to operate on the copyrighted and commercial products of mass culture, and the appropriation and commercialization by mass culture of folk narrative and music which, being distributed by the mass media, become the newly canonical versions of the tradition.

[…]

The Internet and digital media, enabling consumers of culture to copy, alter, and select bits of both folk and mass culture, has tended to accelerate the folk process.[2][10]”…

 ****
SOURCE #2
AI Overview [retrieved online via Google Search on Oct 23, 2025]
"The "folk process" is the way a community or "folk" transforms traditional material, especially songs, over time through a process of transmission, variation, and selection. It involves individuals and groups creatively reinterpreting and adapting folklore, leading to new versions that reflect regional differences, new technologies, and the changing tastes of the community. This process is central to the evolution of folk music and other forms of folklore, where songs and stories are not static but are continually shaped by the people who keep them alive.

Key aspects of the folk process

Transmission: Folklore is passed from person to person and generation to generation, often through oral tradition.

Variation: Individuals and groups creatively change the material. This can include altering lyrics, tunes, or the story's focus, sometimes due to mishearing lyrics (e.g., "mondegreen") or adapting to new circumstances.

Selection: The community determines which variants of a song or story survive and are passed on, and which fall out of use.

Adaptation: Folklore adapts to local conditions and new contexts. A classic example is the song "Streets of Laredo," which evolved from a sailor's lament to a cowboy's song as it moved across regions.

Continuity: The folk process connects the past with the present by constantly reinterpreting existing traditions, rather than creating completely new, standalone works.

Examples

A song originally written for a fiddle might be adapted for a banjo, changing the instrumentation.

Lyrics are often changed to be more relevant to the local community. A song about a specific historical event might be adapted to be about a teacher or a local landmark.

Musicians like Bob Dylan have used the folk process by taking traditional melodies and creating new, original songs based on them, which then become part of the ongoing tradition themselves."

****
VERSIONS OF HAND CLAP RHYMES
From "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapping_game
"
A clapping game (subset of hand games) is a type of usually cooperative (i.e., non-competitive) game which is generally played by two players and involves clapping as a rhythmic accompaniment to a singing game or reciting of a rhyme, often nursery rhymes. Clapping games are found throughout the world and similar games may be known throughout large areas with regional variation.

Nature of the games

Due to the communication skills and coordination required, simple clapping games are age appropriate for children age 24 months and above.[1] In many cultures clapping games are played by all sexes and ages, but in many European and European-influenced cultures, they are largely the preserve of girls.[2]

Claps commonly included in patterns are clapping one's own hands, clapping both hands of a partner, and clapping one hand of a partner, generally across such as the right hand of each player. The clapping may include other activities such as thigh slapping, or a final move such as touching the ground and freezing.[3] Sara Bernstein describes seventy-nine "basic hand-claps".[4]

Clapping patterns may be used with only specific rhymes, generically with most rhymes, or improvised. Children in different areas may be more or less strict about which claps accompany which rhymes but generally different clapping patterns may be used to accompany different rhymes. The rhymes are generally very similar to a jump-rope rhymes. Some games are played without a rhyme, such as 'Slide', and not all require the players to clap each other's hands, such as 'Sevens.'

Clapping games are a part of oral tradition. As such there are a variety of distinct clapping games or families of games. A game may be performed or played in various versions found in different areas and times and often according to ethnicity. For example, "Hello, Operator" may be called "Miss Susie" or "Miss Lucy" and may contain, omit, or vary verses or specific lines. Clapping patterns and actions may also vary. There is no canonical version of any game though children often fight over whose version is "right" or "real"."...
-snip-
I added italics to highlight this paragraph.

****
AN EXAMPLE OF A LIGHTLY FOLK PROCESSED RECREATION RHYME AND AN EXAMPLE OF A HEAVILY FOLK PROCESSED RECREATION RHYME

"Miss Mary Mack" is an example of a lightly folk processed children's recreational rhyme. There's hardily any divergence from the stand words to that rhyme.

In contrast, "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" is an example of a heavily folk processed rhyme. It's rare to find any versions of that rhyme that are the same.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/part-i-down-by-banks-of-hanky-panky.html for a pancocojams post that presents multiple versions of "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" which documents how examples of these rhymes celebrate being different from each other.  

****
QUESTIONS
What examples of folk processed "Down By The Banks of The Hanky Panky" rhymes do you know and have you noticed any changes in those rhymes?

What other children's recreational rhymes can you think of that are lightly folk processed and which children's recreational rhymes are hwavily folk processed? 

And what are the societal implications of performing folk processed rhymes? 

****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.