Latest revision- March 14, 2021
This is Part III of a three part pancocojams series that showcases the vlog [video blog] entitled "Let's Discuss: Black Girl Childhood Hand Games and Sing Songs" which was published on YouTube in 2014 by Ebony Janice Peace.
Part III presents my response to some points that were made in the 2014 vlog "Let's Discuss: Black Girl Childhood Hand Games and Sing Songs".
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2020/03/my-transcript-of-youtube-vlog-lets.html for Part I of this series. Part I showcases this vlog and presents my (unofficial) transcription of that video.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2020/03/black-girls-rhyme-examples-selected.html for Part II of this pancocojams series. Part II presents every comment from the discussion thread of the 2014 vlog "Let's Discuss: Black Girl Childhood Hand Games and Sing Songs" that include examples of children's hand game rhymes. This post also includes some other comments from that video's discussion thread.
The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural, folkloric purposes, and educational purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to EbonyJanice Peace and thanks to all others who are quoted in this post.
****
MY COMMENTS ABOUT THE EBONYJANICE PEACE'S 2014 VLOG "LET'S DISCUSS: BLACK GIRL CHILDHOOD HAND GAMES AND SING SONGS"
First let me repeat my thanks to EbonyJanice Peace for publishing a video blog (vlog) on YouTube on the subject of Black girls' hand games.
I'm an African American woman who has been interested in this subject since at least the mid 1985. Since that time until sometime in 2009 I have directly (face to face) collected examples of children's recreational rhymes, singing games, and cheers, mostly from Black girls in the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania area.
I share this to say that I'm not a casual commenter about the subject that EbonyJanice Peace discussed in her 2014 vlog and invited others to discuss. Unfortunately, although comments aren't prohibited on that video's discussion thread, few people took that vlogger up on her invitation to discuss "Black girl childhood hand games and singing games". Note that I commented in 2017 on that discussion thread. That comment is found in Part II of this pancocojams series along with several other comments from people who wrote about that topic instead of just sharing rhyme examples.
My sense is that EbonyJanice Peace addressed two distinct points in her vlog
1. How and why it is that the same examples or similar versions of the same hand clap rhymes and "sing songs" are found throughout the United States.
2. Her belief that the text (words) for many of these rhymes/sing songs are "inappropriate".
While several of the commenters in that vlog's discussion thread added documentation to point #1 (by sharing what state or nation their examples came from), no one offered any theories about how or why so many versions of African American girls' rhymes are the same or similar.
Most commenters who offered an opinion about the text of these children's rhyme agreed with that vlogger that their content was "inappropriate". Read #7 in Part II of this pancocojams series for the comment from one person who appears to offer another opinion and may have also addressed the question as to why these rhymes are similar.
I've divided my comments into two parts:
Part I (in which I share my theories about how and why so many African American girls recreational rhymes, singing games, and cheers are the same and similar)
and
Part II (my comments about the "inappropriate" words/lyrics in some of these rhymes).
Finally, many of the examples of rhymes that EbonyJanice Peace and commenters in her vlog's discussion thread share are showcased in various pancocojams post. An easy way to find those posts is to Google search the rhymes name followed by the word "pancocojams". Examples: writing "race in down down baby rhymes pancocojams" in Google search yields this link http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/01/racialized-versions-of-i-like-coffee-i.html.
Also, writing "your mama short and fat rhymes pancocojams" in Google search yields this pancocojams link http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/03/yo-greasy-grimey-granny-black-talk-in.html.
A third example is that writing "I met my boyfriend at the candy store pancocojams" in Google search yields this link: http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/01/bill-cosby-show-hand-clap-segment-i-met.html.
****
PART I: My theories about why many African Americans girls recreational rhymes (handclap rhymes, cheers, singing games etc.) are the same or very similar or the same prior to the internet*
These statements/theories are given in no particular order.
1. Black children's rhymes, singing games, cheers reflect, are created from, and help create African American culture. (Read the book excerpt that is given in Part II that addresses this point.)
[added March 27, 2020], In particular, foot stomping cheers conform to, honor, express certain African American cultural values and aesthetic preferences. Here are some of those values/aesthetic preferences:
a. The structure of all foot stomping cheers value the group more than the individual. The group voice is first, and every member of the group has the same equal length amount of time to be the group soloist.
b. Foot stomping cheers value being able to stay 'on beat" and being able to "get down" (perform dances and percussive movements very well). Some cheers more than others focus on dancing/doing movements very well more than other cheers, i.e.- the cheer itself provides the opportunity to show off the group (and each individual within the group's) dancing skills.
c. Some cheers more than others focus on/reflect the high value of females being tough and having attitude (and being respected for those "take no stuff from anybody) approach to life)
d. Some cheers more than others focus on/reflect the high value of being "fine" (physically attractive), and being sexy (having one or more boyfriends and being able to take any "man" they want from another female).
d. Some cheers more than others focus on/reflect the high value of self-bragging/taunting others.
e. Some cheers more than others express the high value given to resisting authority and not jumping to do whatever is demanded of them by the group [which represents "authority" in these cheers]. Read my comment in this post's discussion thread about what that pattern I refer to as "command, refusal, command, compliance" foot stomping cheers. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/05/examples-of-childrens-cheer-rock-boat.html for the 2013 pancocojams post entitled "Examples Of The Children's Cheer "Rock The Boat" that describe this pattern and provides text and video examples of these foot stomping cheers.
2. Many rhymes were passed down from parents and other adults to children (including in schools and community institutions). When people relocated, they carried their rhyme repertoire with them and shared them with people who lived where they moved. Folk processing (changing a word or words in a rhyme because of mishearing, misremembering or to make the word make more sense) resulted/results in some changes to the rhyme. Adding or substituting topical references (references to locations, stores, products etc that a person is familiar with) also accounts for some changes to these rhymes. In addition, rhymes are often updated to reflect particular experiences, and cultural references/issues that children experience (I believe that this may account for the racialized examples of "Down Down Baby". Click the link for those rhymes that is found above.)
3. Many rhymes were shared throughout the United States from direct (face to face) contacts from people visiting different cities and states and talking to family and friends over the telephone>
4. Many rhymes were shared throughout the United States via the mass media (books, newspapers, magazines, television, movies, radio)
5 The rhymes/singing games/cheers that are popular among African Americans meet our cultural aesthetics for formulaic, easy to remember, repetitive, rhyming verse structure, percussive rhythm and beats, call & response format, etc.
-snip-
*After people had increased internet access- particularly after YouTube first started in Feb. 2005- the internet came be cited as one reason why many of these rhymes are the same or so similar.
****
PART II
Rather than focus on the fact that some [and not all] Black girls' recreational rhymes, singing games, and cheers contain "inappropriate*" content, I believe that a better focus is to consider the purpose of recreational rhymes (including Black girls' rhymes), beyond that of entertainment, and physical activity.
These points are given in no particular order.
1. Black girls rhymes (handclap rhymes, cheers, singing games etc.) are forms of creative expression.
Here's a quote from Black Girlhood Celebration: Toward a Hip-hop Feminist Pedagogy By Ruth Nicole Brown
Page 43 (Google books)
[In her 2006 book The Games Black Girls Play: Learning the Ropes from Double-Dutch to Hip-Hop Kyra] "Gaunt* argues Black girls' sphere of musical activity represents one of the earliest formations of Black popular music culture. Girls are its primary agents: they are the leaders in composing the beats, rhymes, and multilimbed choreographies of handclapping games, cheers, and double Dutch, as well as their accompanying chants." (Gaunt, 2006. page 183)
2. Black girls rhymes provide opportunities to show off their movement skills such as (dancing, stepping)
3. Black girls rhymes provide opportunities to prepare for (try on) womanhood roles.
4. Black girl rhymes provide opportunities to flaunt societal rules/taboos with little or no consequences, particularly in settings where there are no adults.
5. Black girls rhymes provide opportunities to gain status.
With regard to all of these points, read this excerpt from Black Girlhood Celebration: Toward a Hip-hop Feminist Pedagogy By Ruth Nicole Brown; First printing edition (November 6, 2008)
Page 43 (Google books)
In “Eastgate” cheers were “serious” Black girl battles. In a social and cultural capital sense we were gangs. Groups of girls formed a posse and challenged girls on any street corner in particular to battle using our words and cheers to rhyme, our bodies to make beats.
Tell it tell it tell it like it is (uh hun)
tell it tell it tell it like it is
My name Nicole (tell it tell it)
I’m on the line (tell it tell it)
And I can do it (tell it tell it)
To the Capricorn sign (tell it tell it)
And you know what? (what?)
And you know what (what?)
Your man was in my body and he did some karate and he
knocked on my door, but he didn’t get no more.
That’s how I remember one of my favorite cheers; if I was an ethnomusicologist like [ ] Gaunt, I’d break down the musical notations and reference the popular songs
[page 44]
we sampled from and that sampled us. That memory, however, allows us to make sense of how Black girls speak through hip-hop to give meaning to their lives.** These games were banned from the schoolyard because they incited the same danger as red and blue colors in the city.***
Because I have the cultural capital to know what it means to do Black girl call-and -response in hip-hop fashion, playing games I can remember and no longer play, I believe that one gift of working with Black girls is that they require Black women to “go back” to missed memories or part of a Black girlhood they never knew as a means of communication and connection.…This is saving ourselves, not saving them from being Black girls and playing Black girls games.”...
-snip-
*In 2015, Dr. Kyra Gaunt commented in the discussion thread for the vlog that is the subject of this pancocojams series. Unfortunately, she only referred people to her book and didn't share any statements/opinions about this subject in that discussion.
**This sentence is written in italics to highlight it.
*** The reference to "red and blue colors" refer to warfare between the Crips and Bloods gangs.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/09/foot-stomping-cheers-alphabetical-list_22.html for several additional examples of the [foot stomping] cheer "Tell It".
****
This concludes Part III of this three part pancocojams series.
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
From 2000 to 2014 I also collected rhyme examples, children's cheers, and singing games from people who shared those examples on my no longer active cocojams.com cultural website. Many of those examples were shared by children and teens via an easy to use page on that website. People who shared examples there didn't have to give an email address and were encouraged to share their first name only, the type of recreational rhyme they were sending in, and certain demographics (their age, their gender, their geographic location, and their race. People could also share additional comments along with their examples. After I voluntarily deactivated cocojams.com, I re-published most of those examples on two of my cocojams2 google blog. A large number of those examples have also been showcased on this pancocojams blog.
In addition to those activities, since 2000 I have also collected examples of children's rhymes (with special attention to African American girls rhymes from books, records, and other offline published formats, and from actively searching online for those examples. My very active participation in the online Mudcat folk music discussion forum (and a number of discussion threads on this subject that I started on that forum) was one of the key ways that I collected and studied contemporary (post 1960s) children's recreational rhymes.
Prior to Feb. 28, 2019 when YouTube started disallowing comments on most of their children's videos (and deleted the discussion threads of most of of those videos) those YouTube discussion threads also provided a treasure trove of examples on contemporary children's recreational rhymes. A number of those rhymes were posted by Black (i.e. African American) girls and women.
In addition to those activities, since 2000 I have also collected examples of children's rhymes (with special attention to African American girls rhymes from books, records, and other offline published formats, and from actively searching online for those examples. My very active participation in the online Mudcat folk music discussion forum (and a number of discussion threads on this subject that I started on that forum) was one of the key ways that I collected and studied contemporary (post 1960s) children's recreational rhymes.
Prior to Feb. 28, 2019 when YouTube started disallowing comments on most of their children's videos (and deleted the discussion threads of most of of those videos) those YouTube discussion threads also provided a treasure trove of examples on contemporary children's recreational rhymes. A number of those rhymes were posted by Black (i.e. African American) girls and women.
I share this to say that I'm not a casual commenter about the subject that EbonyJanice Peace discussed in her 2014 vlog and invited others to discuss. Unfortunately, although comments aren't prohibited on that video's discussion thread, few people took that vlogger up on her invitation to discuss "Black girl childhood hand games and singing games". Note that I commented in 2017 on that discussion thread. That comment is found in Part II of this pancocojams series along with several other comments from people who wrote about that topic instead of just sharing rhyme examples.
My sense is that EbonyJanice Peace addressed two distinct points in her vlog
1. How and why it is that the same examples or similar versions of the same hand clap rhymes and "sing songs" are found throughout the United States.
2. Her belief that the text (words) for many of these rhymes/sing songs are "inappropriate".
While several of the commenters in that vlog's discussion thread added documentation to point #1 (by sharing what state or nation their examples came from), no one offered any theories about how or why so many versions of African American girls' rhymes are the same or similar.
Most commenters who offered an opinion about the text of these children's rhyme agreed with that vlogger that their content was "inappropriate". Read #7 in Part II of this pancocojams series for the comment from one person who appears to offer another opinion and may have also addressed the question as to why these rhymes are similar.
I've divided my comments into two parts:
Part I (in which I share my theories about how and why so many African American girls recreational rhymes, singing games, and cheers are the same and similar)
and
Part II (my comments about the "inappropriate" words/lyrics in some of these rhymes).
Finally, many of the examples of rhymes that EbonyJanice Peace and commenters in her vlog's discussion thread share are showcased in various pancocojams post. An easy way to find those posts is to Google search the rhymes name followed by the word "pancocojams". Examples: writing "race in down down baby rhymes pancocojams" in Google search yields this link http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/01/racialized-versions-of-i-like-coffee-i.html.
Also, writing "your mama short and fat rhymes pancocojams" in Google search yields this pancocojams link http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/03/yo-greasy-grimey-granny-black-talk-in.html.
A third example is that writing "I met my boyfriend at the candy store pancocojams" in Google search yields this link: http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/01/bill-cosby-show-hand-clap-segment-i-met.html.
****
PART I: My theories about why many African Americans girls recreational rhymes (handclap rhymes, cheers, singing games etc.) are the same or very similar or the same prior to the internet*
These statements/theories are given in no particular order.
1. Black children's rhymes, singing games, cheers reflect, are created from, and help create African American culture. (Read the book excerpt that is given in Part II that addresses this point.)
[added March 27, 2020], In particular, foot stomping cheers conform to, honor, express certain African American cultural values and aesthetic preferences. Here are some of those values/aesthetic preferences:
a. The structure of all foot stomping cheers value the group more than the individual. The group voice is first, and every member of the group has the same equal length amount of time to be the group soloist.
b. Foot stomping cheers value being able to stay 'on beat" and being able to "get down" (perform dances and percussive movements very well). Some cheers more than others focus on dancing/doing movements very well more than other cheers, i.e.- the cheer itself provides the opportunity to show off the group (and each individual within the group's) dancing skills.
c. Some cheers more than others focus on/reflect the high value of females being tough and having attitude (and being respected for those "take no stuff from anybody) approach to life)
d. Some cheers more than others focus on/reflect the high value of being "fine" (physically attractive), and being sexy (having one or more boyfriends and being able to take any "man" they want from another female).
d. Some cheers more than others focus on/reflect the high value of self-bragging/taunting others.
e. Some cheers more than others express the high value given to resisting authority and not jumping to do whatever is demanded of them by the group [which represents "authority" in these cheers]. Read my comment in this post's discussion thread about what that pattern I refer to as "command, refusal, command, compliance" foot stomping cheers. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/05/examples-of-childrens-cheer-rock-boat.html for the 2013 pancocojams post entitled "Examples Of The Children's Cheer "Rock The Boat" that describe this pattern and provides text and video examples of these foot stomping cheers.
2. Many rhymes were passed down from parents and other adults to children (including in schools and community institutions). When people relocated, they carried their rhyme repertoire with them and shared them with people who lived where they moved. Folk processing (changing a word or words in a rhyme because of mishearing, misremembering or to make the word make more sense) resulted/results in some changes to the rhyme. Adding or substituting topical references (references to locations, stores, products etc that a person is familiar with) also accounts for some changes to these rhymes. In addition, rhymes are often updated to reflect particular experiences, and cultural references/issues that children experience (I believe that this may account for the racialized examples of "Down Down Baby". Click the link for those rhymes that is found above.)
3. Many rhymes were shared throughout the United States from direct (face to face) contacts from people visiting different cities and states and talking to family and friends over the telephone>
4. Many rhymes were shared throughout the United States via the mass media (books, newspapers, magazines, television, movies, radio)
5 The rhymes/singing games/cheers that are popular among African Americans meet our cultural aesthetics for formulaic, easy to remember, repetitive, rhyming verse structure, percussive rhythm and beats, call & response format, etc.
-snip-
*After people had increased internet access- particularly after YouTube first started in Feb. 2005- the internet came be cited as one reason why many of these rhymes are the same or so similar.
****
PART II
Rather than focus on the fact that some [and not all] Black girls' recreational rhymes, singing games, and cheers contain "inappropriate*" content, I believe that a better focus is to consider the purpose of recreational rhymes (including Black girls' rhymes), beyond that of entertainment, and physical activity.
These points are given in no particular order.
1. Black girls rhymes (handclap rhymes, cheers, singing games etc.) are forms of creative expression.
Here's a quote from Black Girlhood Celebration: Toward a Hip-hop Feminist Pedagogy By Ruth Nicole Brown
Page 43 (Google books)
[In her 2006 book The Games Black Girls Play: Learning the Ropes from Double-Dutch to Hip-Hop Kyra] "Gaunt* argues Black girls' sphere of musical activity represents one of the earliest formations of Black popular music culture. Girls are its primary agents: they are the leaders in composing the beats, rhymes, and multilimbed choreographies of handclapping games, cheers, and double Dutch, as well as their accompanying chants." (Gaunt, 2006. page 183)
2. Black girls rhymes provide opportunities to show off their movement skills such as (dancing, stepping)
3. Black girls rhymes provide opportunities to prepare for (try on) womanhood roles.
4. Black girl rhymes provide opportunities to flaunt societal rules/taboos with little or no consequences, particularly in settings where there are no adults.
5. Black girls rhymes provide opportunities to gain status.
With regard to all of these points, read this excerpt from Black Girlhood Celebration: Toward a Hip-hop Feminist Pedagogy By Ruth Nicole Brown; First printing edition (November 6, 2008)
Page 43 (Google books)
In “Eastgate” cheers were “serious” Black girl battles. In a social and cultural capital sense we were gangs. Groups of girls formed a posse and challenged girls on any street corner in particular to battle using our words and cheers to rhyme, our bodies to make beats.
Tell it tell it tell it like it is (uh hun)
tell it tell it tell it like it is
My name Nicole (tell it tell it)
I’m on the line (tell it tell it)
And I can do it (tell it tell it)
To the Capricorn sign (tell it tell it)
And you know what? (what?)
And you know what (what?)
Your man was in my body and he did some karate and he
knocked on my door, but he didn’t get no more.
That’s how I remember one of my favorite cheers; if I was an ethnomusicologist like [ ] Gaunt, I’d break down the musical notations and reference the popular songs
[page 44]
we sampled from and that sampled us. That memory, however, allows us to make sense of how Black girls speak through hip-hop to give meaning to their lives.** These games were banned from the schoolyard because they incited the same danger as red and blue colors in the city.***
Because I have the cultural capital to know what it means to do Black girl call-and -response in hip-hop fashion, playing games I can remember and no longer play, I believe that one gift of working with Black girls is that they require Black women to “go back” to missed memories or part of a Black girlhood they never knew as a means of communication and connection.…This is saving ourselves, not saving them from being Black girls and playing Black girls games.”...
-snip-
*In 2015, Dr. Kyra Gaunt commented in the discussion thread for the vlog that is the subject of this pancocojams series. Unfortunately, she only referred people to her book and didn't share any statements/opinions about this subject in that discussion.
**This sentence is written in italics to highlight it.
*** The reference to "red and blue colors" refer to warfare between the Crips and Bloods gangs.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/09/foot-stomping-cheers-alphabetical-list_22.html for several additional examples of the [foot stomping] cheer "Tell It".
****
This concludes Part III of this three part pancocojams series.
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
