"Go Around The Corn, Sally" (19th Century Black American Corn Husking Work Song: information, lyrics, video examples)

Mary Buchmann,   May 9, 2021

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This post is largely a reprint of Part II of a three part pancocojams 2014 series about the African American corn husking song "Round De Corn, Sally". https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/06/four-examples-of-round-corn-sally.html 

This post (Part II) presents some background information about the song "Round The Corn, Sally" and presents four early text (word only) examples of "Around The Corn, Sally". That 2014 post has no pancocojams visitor comments

Three YouTube videos have been added to that 2014 post: two videos of the song "Go Around The Corn, Sally" and one video of the sea shanty "Go Around The Corner, Sally" which has its source in that corn husking work song. No changes have been made to the word only content of that 2014 post.

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/06/descriptions-of-corn-husking-corn-songs.html for Part I of this series. Part I provides excerpts from two online books about corn husking in the Southern United States during slavery. Part I also includes some comments about pre-mechanical corn husking in the United States apart from United States slavery.

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/06/three-examples-of-childrens-song-go.html for Part III of this series. Part III provides video examples and lyrics of the children's song "Go Around The Corn, Sally" which is adapted from the work song "Around The Corn ,Sally".

The content of this post is provided for historical, folkloric, cultural, and entertainment purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the performers and collectors of this song. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post. Thanks to all those who are featured in the videos that are embedded in this post and thanks to the publishers of those videos on YouTube.

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INFORMATION ABOUT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN WORK SONG "ROUND THE CORN SALLY"

Excerpt #1
From https://voices.pitt.edu/TeachersGuide/Unit1/Round%20the%20Corn(er)%20Sally.htm

Round the Corn(er), Sally

Traditional, 1700s

Song Background

Often novels and memoirs are the only sources for learning the history of a song. Such is the case with “Round the Corn, Sally.” Because it is mentioned in several early American novels, it is one of the earliest known examples of an African American slave song. Dena Epstein notes the presence of “Round the Corn, Sally” in one of the first novels of plantation life, George Tucker’s The Valley of Shenandoah (1824). In the novel The Old Plantation and What I Gathered There in an Autumn Month (1859), James Hungerford cites it as a rowing song. It is also mentioned in Richard Dana’s Two Years Before the Mast (1840).

Eileen Southern notes that “Round the Corn, Sally” was used to coordinate the movements of work teams. Enslaved people loading cotton along the Eastern Seaboard or Mississippi River likely sang “Round the Corn, Sally,” where it was adapted by the seafaring population and turned into a sea chanty. Interaction between various singing populations often gave rise to new songs. The melodies and rhythms of the two versions are similar, and they share a call-and-response structure. The expert chantyman improvised lyrics of the repeating phrase, while the sailors, hard at work, would repeat the chorus. This chanty was likely used to coordinate the crew’s movement raising sails, a strenuous effort made easier by singing. This version of the sea chanty probably dates from the mid-1800s (after California became a US territory), but “Round the Corn, Sally” is a much earlier slave song."
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Pancocojams Editor's Note: "Round The Corner, Sally" is the title of the sea shanties (chanties) versions of "Round The Corn, Sally". Except for the refrain "round the corner, Sally", there are no fixed lyrics for that shanty.  Some people believe that "the corner" that is referred to in that song is Cape Horn" at the tip of South America. Some people believe that "Sally" in this song is a general referent for sailors' girlfriends, and others believe that "Sally" is a referent for a loose woman who stands on street corners luring men.     

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Excerpt #2 [Information about the shanty "Round The Corner, Sally"  
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNvk3gsCkok&ab_channel=hultonclint [from that YouTube video's summary]
..."Another song is a candidate as a source for "Round the Corner, Sally."  It appears in the text of a James Hungerford, in which the author describes a visit to his cousin's plantation in Maryland in 1832.  With it's musical notations, it is considered to be the first extant text to contain slave songs. "Roun' De Corn, Sally" is described in the context of rowing a boat, but properly attributed as a corn-husking song.  In his 1989 book, ORIGINS OF THE POPULAR STYLE, pg.206, Peter Van der Merwe makes a connection between the similar phrase in the slave song and the chantey, thinking that "round the corn" was a corruption of the chantey phrase, due to confounding the "corn" context with the original meaning.  The original phrase, as supposed by Hugill, was a sort of "gal on the street," later reinterpreted as a sailor's lady-friend of locales that were around the "corner": Cape Horn.  However, some recent interpreters seem to suggest that the plantation song was a source"...

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EARLY EXAMPLES OF THE SONG "ROUND THE CORN, SALLY"

Example #1:
From http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/afro-american/afro-american-folksongs%20-%200148.htm Afro-American Folksongs, A Study In Racial And National Music by Henry Edward Krehbiel (1914, p. 48) [online book]
...“The paucity of secular working songs has already been commented on. Of songs referring to labor in the field the editors of "Slave Songs of the United States" were able to collect only two examples. Both of them are "corn songs," and the first is a mere fragment, the only words of which have been preserved being "Shock along, John." The second defied interpretation fifty years ago and is still incomprehensible:

Five can't ketch me and tea can't hold me—
Ho, round the corn, Sally I Here's your iggle-quarter and here's your count-aquils—
Ho round the corn, Sally] I can bank, 'ginny bank, 'gmny bank the weaver—
Ho, round the corn, Sally!" "

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Example #2
From http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/allen/fig111.html Slave Songs of the United States edited by William Francis Allen, Charles Pickard Ware, and Lucy McKim Garrison (1867)
[Musical Notation for "Round the Corn, Sally"]
68
"Five can’t catch me and ten can’t hold me
Ho, round the corn Sally
Ho, round the corn, round the corn, round the corn
Ho ,Ho, Ho round the corn Sally."

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Example #3:
From http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=52717
Posted By: Charley Noble
23-Oct-02 - 11:27 AM
Thread Name: Origin: Johnny Come Down to Hilo
Subject: Lyr.Add. Round' de Corn, Sally
...Most of us nautical singers are familar with the old sea shanty "Round the Corner, Sally" in which the corner refered to has been ascribed to Cape Horn. Well, try this old plantation corn husking song on for size:

ROUN' DE CORN, SALLY

(corn husking song collected by slaveholder James Hungerford's The Old Plantation and What I Gathered There in an Autumn Month, c. 1832, quoted in THE MUSIC OF BLACK AMERICANS by Eileen Southern, pp. 180)

Grand Chorus:

Hooray, hooray, ho! Roun' de corn, Sally!
Hooray for all de lubly (lovely) ladies! Roun' de corn, Sally!
Hooray, hooray, ho! Roun' de corn, Sally!
Hooray for all de lubly ladies! Roun' de corn, Sally!

Dis lub's er (a) thing dat's sure to hab you, Roun' de corn, Sally!
He hole (hold) you tight, when once he grab you, Roun' de corn, Sally!
Un (an) ole (old) un (one) ugly, young un (one) pretty, Roun' de corn, Sally!
You needen try when once he git you, Roun' de corn, Sally! (CHO)

Dere's Mr. Travers lub Miss Jinny, Roun' de corn, Sally!
He thinks she is us (as) good us any, Roun' de corn, Sally!
He comes from church wid her er (on) Sunday, Roun' de corn, Sally!
Un (He) don't go back ter town till Monday, Roun' de corn, Sally! (CHO)

My interpretations in ()'s.
Cheerily,
Charley Noble

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Example #4:
[This excerpt of "Round De Corn, Sally" was documented to have been sung by Black people while they marched around the plantation as part of their Christmas festivities, after going to the main house to receive gifts from their former master/mistress.]

From http://books.google.com/books?id=SHRAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA236&lpg=PA236&dq=round+de+corn+sally&source=bl&ots=7d8Yta7mK6&sig=0WAtB-T5dvoAu1mzkfKSPlnZ-3k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aHiYU47ZFIWdyATsx4KIBA&ved=0CCwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=round%20de%20corn%20sally&f=false The Literary Digest, Volume 10 1895 “Christmas In The South Long Ago”[p 236]

Hooray, hooray, ho
Round de corn, Sally
Hooray for all de lubly ladies
Round de corn, Sally
Dere a Master Howard lub Miss Betty
Round de corn, Sally
I tell you what, she a mighty pretty
Round de corn, Sally...
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This is followed by other lines that are difficult for me to decipher. However, it appears that those lines are other complementary comments about other (White) people on the plantation.

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YOUTUBE VIDEO EXAMPLE OF SCHOOL CHILDREN SINGING "GO AROUND THE CORN, SALLY"

River & Relic 2013 concert - Go Around The Corn, Sally

 

Arcege, Dec 6, 2013
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Here's the only comment (besides mine alerting people to this 2024 post) from this video's discussion thread:

@michaelbaker602, 2024
"Published in “Slave Songs of the United States” in 1867."

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YOUTUBE VIDEO EXAMPLE OF THE SEA SHANTY "GO AROUND THE CORNER, SALLY"
 
Round the corner Sally (Halyard Shanty)

YANKEE SAILOR,  Jan 14, 2021  #seashanties #seachanties #maritimehistory

These Halyard shanties can always be recognised by the two successive short pulls in the chorus. (ROUND) the corner (Sally)  for example.

Please help us grow this channel and share Maritime History with the world before it vanishes from our collective culture. Like and Subscribe!

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Ella Jenkins - Children's Songs "Who Fed The Chickens" And "Did You Feed My Cow?"

Smithsonian Folkways, Dec 5, 2012

Watch Ella Jenkins' performance of "Who Fed the Chickens?" from the Ella Jenkins Live at the Smithsonian DVD. Recorded with children from the Smithsonian Institution Early Enrichment Center, Ella made this video so kids at home could also participate. This song is included on her Smithsonian Folkways album 'Get Moving with Ella Jenkins.'...

All songs written or arranged by Ella Jenkins/Ell-Bern Publishing Co., ASCAP
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This isn't the first release date for this record.

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube video of  Ella Jenkins teaching the song "Who Fed The Chickens?" to a group of young children. This post also showcases a sound file of adults singing the song "Did You Feed My Cow?", a traditional African American song that  was arranged and popularized by Ella Jenkins.

In addition, this pancocojams post includes information about Ella Jenkins from her Wikipedia page and from an online tribute article about remarkable accomplishments to children's music.

The content of this post is presented for historical, cultural, entertainment, and aesthetic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.  

Thanks to Ella Jenkins for her music and thanks to all those who are featured in these YouTube examples. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publishers of these examples on YouTube.
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Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/10/jambo-ella-jenkins-lyric-sound-file.html for a 2012 pancocojams post entitled "Jambo" - Ella Jenkins (Lyrics, Sound File, & Video).
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This post on Ella Jenkins is part of an ongoing pancocojams series that showcases African American performing artists whose last names are included on the United States Census (2010) list of  most common Black American surnames.

For the purpose of this series, I'm usually limiting these posts to African American performing artists with a last name that is listed as one of the top 100 most common Black surnames in the United States.

For example, the United States Census (2010) documents that "Jenkins" is the #44th most common surname (last name) among Black people in the United States. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2024/09/the-fifty-most-common-black-last-names.html for the pancocojams post entitled "The Fifty Most Common Black Last Names In The United States And The List Of Fifty Most Common White Last Names In The United States (US Census 2010)".

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SHOWCASE YOUTUBE EXAMPLE #2

Ella Jenkins - Topic, May 21, 2015

Provided to YouTube by Smithsonian Folkways Recordings

Did You Feed My Cow? · Ella Jenkins

African-American Folk Rhythms

℗ 1998 Smithsonian Folkways Recordings

Released on: 1998-10-20
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This isn't the first release date for this record.

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INFORMATION ABOUT ELLA JENKINS
Excerpt #1
From  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Jenkins
"Ella Jenkins (born August 6, 1924) is an American singer-songwriter. Called "The First Lady of the Children's Folk Song", she has been a leading performer of folk and children's music.[1][2] Her album,

Multicultural Children's Songs (1995), has long been the most popular Smithsonian Folkways release. She has appeared on numerous children's television programs and in 2004, she received a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award.[3][4] According to culture writer Mark Guarino, "across her 67-year career, Jenkins firmly established the genre of children’s music as a serious endeavor — not just for artists to pursue but also for the recording industry to embrace and promote."[5]

Family and personal life

Jenkins was born in St. Louis, Missouri and grew up in predominantly lower-middle-class neighborhoods in the south side of Chicago. Although she received no formal musical training, she benefited from her rich musical surroundings. Her uncle Floyd Johnson introduced her to the harmonica and the blues of such renowned musicians as T-Bone Walker, Memphis Slim and Big Bill Broonzy. Her family frequently moved around the south side and, as she moved to different neighborhoods, she learned new children's rhythms, rhymes and games.[6] Gospel music became a part of her soundscape as neighborhood churches broadcast their services onto the street.[1] She also enjoyed tap dancing lessons at the local theater and was able to go to the Regal Theater to see such performers as Cab Calloway, Count Basie, and Peg Leg Bates. Cab Calloway is the person who she credits with getting her interested in call and response singing.[7] While attending Woodrow Wilson Junior College, she became interested in the music of other cultures through her Mexican, Cuban and Puerto Rican friends.[6] In 1951, she earned a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology with minors in Child Psychology and Recreation from San Francisco State University.[1] Here, she picked up songs of the Jewish culture from her roommates. Upon graduating, she returned to Chicago where she began her career."...

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Excerpt #2
From https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/smithsonian-center-folklife-cultural-heritage/2024/08/06/a-century-of-ella-jenkins-tributes-to-the-first-lady-of-childrens-music/ "A Century of Ella Jenkins: Tributes to the First Lady of Children’s Music"

Over her decades-long career as a beloved musical educator, Ella Jenkins has encouraged children to use participation and individual creativity to sing and learn together. Across forty albums, the “First Lady of Children’s Music” introduced the African American call-and-response form to an enormous audience of eager listeners and taught kids to sing, dance, count, share cultures and traditions, and play musical instruments of all kinds.

A GRAMMY Lifetime Achievement Award winner, she brought her music to the international stage, from our own Smithsonian Folklife Festival to Sesame Street, Barney and Friends, and Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood. Each of Ella’s albums is a monument to her legacy of fostering compassion and mutual understanding through music.
[...]

A Foundation of Folkways

The day Ella Jenkins brought a demo of herself singing a children’s song to Moses Asch in 1956 was important for her future and for Folkways Records. The label had always had children’s music as a major part of its catalog, but she became one of their bestselling artist for decades to come.  Ella’s sales made it possible for Asch to create a wide-ranging catalog of albums including tribal music and science sounds, which otherwise would not have supported themselves.

[...]

She went to San Francisco State University and studied sociology, child psychology, and recreation. She got a job at the YMCA in the 1950s singing with teens and creating programs that incorporated world music. She has always been good at getting children to sing along—frequently to call-and-response songs. These talents led her to host the Chicago public television show This Is Rhythm. The theme of rhythm was central to her programs and later work. By the time she went to see Asch at Folkways, she had decided to devote her life to music.

[...]

The first thing the Smithsonian did after acquiring Folkways in 1987 was make sure all of Ella’s records were in print. As soon as the compact disc appeared, Smithsonian Folkways created about forty titles in the format; roughly half were Ella’s."...
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Visitor comments are welcome.

Swingsetmamas - A Solar Eclipse Song For Kids (with a call & response pattern)

Swingsetmamas, Premiered Mar 9, 2024

Sing and learn about solar eclipses in this fun and catchy songs with AAC symbols and video of a real solar eclipse

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube animated video and song for children about the solar eclipse. A solar eclipse will be visible on April 8, 2024 in parts of Mexico, parts of the United States, and parts of Canada. 

This post includes information about that solar eclipse and lyrics to that song.

A warning about directly watching the solar eclipse is also included in this post.  

The content of this post is presented for educational and entertainment purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Swingsetmamas for this video and song and thanks to all those who were part of the production of this video and song. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post.

DISCLAIMER
This video and song are showcased on pancocojams although this video and song composition may have nothing to do with the stated mission of this blog i.e to showcase the culture of African Americans and other Black people throughout the world.

I'm showcasing this video and song because I'm impressed by its creativity and the way it educates children and other people about the solar eclipse. However, I'm concerned that this song doesn't emphasize the dangers of looking at the eclipse without the proper solar eclipse glasses. 

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INFORMATION ABOUT THE APRIL 8, 2024 SOLAR ECLIPSE
From https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/07/solar-eclipse-time-2024/73216068007/

Here are the major cities in each state where you can expect to experience totality in the United States (note that the included times do not account for when the partial eclipse begins and ends):

 

Dallas, Texas: 1:40-1:44 p.m. CDT

Idabel, Oklahoma: 1:45-1:49 p.m. CDT

Little Rock, Arkansas: 1:51-1:54 p.m. CDT

Poplar Bluff, Missouri: 1:56-2:00 p.m. CDT

Paducah, Kentucky: 2-2:02 p.m. CDT

Carbondale, Illinois: 1:59-2:03 p.m. CDT

Evansville, Indiana: 2:02-2:05 p.m. CDT

Cleveland, Ohio: 3:13-3:17 p.m. EDT

Erie, Pennsylvania: 3:16-3:20 p.m. EDT

Buffalo, New York: 3:18-3:22 p.m. EDT

Burlington, Vermont: 3:26-3:29 p.m. EDT

Lancaster, New Hampshire: 3:27-3:30 p.m. EDT

Caribou, Maine: 3:32-3:34 p.m. EDT

[...]

What is the path of the 2024 solar eclipse?

The eclipse begins in Mexico, and then crosses over into the U.S. through Texas. From there, the path of totality, which is approximately 115 miles wide, extends northeast, crossing through 13 states. In the U.S., totality will end in Maine, but the eclipse will eventually enter the maritime provinces of Canada.

Other major cities along the eclipse's path of totality include San Antonio and Austin, Texas; Indianapolis; and Rochester and Syracuse, New York."
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My hometown of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania isn't in the path of the total eclipse.

"The moon will not fully cover the sun, about 3% of the sun's rays will still be visible. That will begin around 2 p.m. and end around 4 p.m" https://www.google.com/search?

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WHY LOOKING AT A SOLAR ECLIPSE IS DANGEROUS
https://www.nbcdfw.com/solar-eclipse/looking-directly-at-the-sun-during-a-solar-eclipse-is-dangerous-heres-what-to-know/3508149/

...."Eye damage can occur without proper protection. The sun's bright rays can burn cells in the retina at the back of the eye. The retina doesn’t have pain receptors, so there’s no way to feel the damage as it happens. Once the cells die, they don’t come back.

Symptoms of solar eye damage, called solar retinopathy, include blurred vision and color distortion."...
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To emphasize, wearing regular sun glasses aren't adequate protection for your eyes when looking at a solar eclipse. 

Please stay safe. If you don't have the proper glasses, watch the eclipse online or on television.
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LYRICS: SOLAR ECLIPSE
(composers?/performers- Swing Set mamas)

The sun comes up
[The sun comes up]
Everyday
[Everyday]
Sometimes the moon
[Sometimes the moon]
Gets in the way
[Gets in the way]
The day gets dark
[The day gets dark]
When the shadow hits
[When the shadow hits]
What do we call it
[What do we call it]
A solar eclipse
[A solar eclipse]

It's a solar eclipse
[It's a solar eclipse]
Why does the sky 
[Why does the sky]
Look like this
[Look like this]
Put on your glasses
[Put on your glasses]
So you don't miss
[So you don’t miss]
Let's go outside
[Let’s go outside]
And look at]
[And look at]
[The solar eclipse]
[The solar eclipse]

When the Sun and the Moon
[When the Sun and the Moon]
Line up perfectly
[Line up perfectly]
A Moon Shadow
[A Moon Shadow]
[Is what we see]
[Is what we see]
The moon goes]
[The moon goes]
In front of the sun's light
[In front of the sun's light]
[And makes the day]
[And makes the day]
[Seem like the night]
[Seem like the night]

It's a solar eclipse
[It's a solar eclipse]
Why does the sky
[Why does the sky]
Look like this
[Look like this]
Put on your glasses
[Put on your glasses]
So you don't miss
[So you don’t miss]
Let's go outside
[Let’s go outside]
And look at the solar eclipse
[And look at the solar eclipse]

It's a solar eclipse
[It's a solar eclipse]
Why does the sky
[Why does the sky]
Look like this
[Look like this]
Put on your glasses
[Put on your glasses]
So you don't miss
[So you don’t miss]
Let's go outside
[Let’s go outside]
And look at the solar eclipse
[And look at the solar eclipse]

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I transcribed these lyrics from that animated video with a call & response pattern that may not be totally used throughout that entire video. 

Additions and corrections are welcome.

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Four Videos Of The Song "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" ("The Crazy Old Man From China" ) & One Video Of Its Source Song "Old Shoes & Leggins"

happyxlxface, Jun 13, 2008
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For the purpose of this post, this is considered to be Showcase Video #1. 

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Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest Revision -August 18, 2023
 
This pancocojams post showcases all of the YouTube videos that I've found to date of the old song "The Crazy Old Man From China". This song is also known as "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and similar titles.

This post also showcases a YouTube video of "Old Shoes And Leggins" which is the source song for "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese".

The Addendum of this post presents a few comments about the tunes that are used for "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese.:

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, socio-cultural, and entertainment purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are featured in these videos or who are quoted in this post. Thanks also to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
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This is part of an ongoing pancocojams series on the songs "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese".

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/08/anti-chinese-songs-such-as-in-china.html  for the pancocojams post entitled "Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese": Comments From Mudcat Discussion Forum & My Opinions & Recommendations."

Additional links to other posts in that series are included in that post. Click the tags below for other pancocojams post on or closely related to this subject.
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"The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" (also known as "The Crazy Old Man From China" dates from the 1940s if not earlier. The song "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" is even somewhat older (from the late 1920s?) "The Crazy Old Man From China" is a racialized version of the 18th century Scottish song "Old Shoes And Leggings" that ridiculed an old man courting young women. Ridiculing Chinese people was part of the anti-Chinese practices and laws that were rampant in the United States at those times (and unfortunately, are still all too common today in 2023).

Click https://www.lizlyle.lofgrens.org/RmOlSngs/RTOS-OldShoes.html for an article about the song "Old Shoes And Leggings". Verses of that song are quite similar to verses in "The Crazy Old Man From China" ("The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese"), for example:
 "My mother she told me to put him to bed
For the girls wouldn't have him.
I put him to bed and he stood on his head
With his overshoes on and his leggings." 

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A.

ADDITIONAL YOUTUBE VIDEOS OF "THE CRAZY OLD MAN FROM CHINA" (ALSO GIVEN AS "THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE"

These videos are given in no particular order.

No lyrics are given and there's no attempt to identify a familiar song whose tune is the same or similar to the tune that is used (since I don't feel competent enough to do that, but you can share your identification/guesses about these tunes in the comment section below.)


SHOWCASE Video #2 - The crazy old man from china

  

Ethan Cook, Jul 30, 2022

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #3 - crazy old man from china

home videos from tom w, Feb 19, 2019

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #4 - The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese

Carol Myers, Sept. 21, 2016

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B. FOLK SONG ORIGINALLY 18th CENTURYFROM SCOTLAND: 

Uncle Eck Dunford - Old Shoes & Leggins

misterbamboostick Jul 23, 2012

(from Harry Smith's 'Anthology of American Folk Music : Ballads').

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ADDENDUM: MUDCAT FOLK MUSIC FORUM COMMENTS ABOUT THE TUNES FOR THIS SONG
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174

Numbers are added for references only.   

1.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Bug Girl
Date: 16 May 12 - 04:56 PM

I learned it this way in the early 70's, it was definitely not to tune of Blow The Man Down. “…
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In 2007 in this same Mudcat discussion thread I shared my memories of this song (with the title "The Little Baldheaded Chinese" from around 1954/1955 in Atlantic City, New Jersey). I didn't include this information in my comment, but I believe the tune I remember was the same or very similar tune as the shanty "Blow The Man Down".

I'm not sure why that commenter mentioned "Blow The Man Down" as I can't find any previous comment in that discussion thread that indicated that that was the tune that was used for that song. It appears that the commenter must have heard or read someone connecting the tunes in those two songs together before since she was so adamant that they weren't the same.

2. 
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China

From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:23 PM

Does anyone remember the tune? Did it have it's own or was it from something else?....

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3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Nathan in Texas 
Date: 05 Jan 18 - 06:49 PM

When I learned this in elementary school in the 60s, the tune was almost the same as "A Sailor Went to Sea, Sea, Sea."

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Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese": Comments From Mudcat Discussion Forum & My Opinions & Recommendations

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision- August 18, 2023

This pancocojams post presents some comments from Mudcat Discussion Forum* about Anti-Chinese Songs Such As "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" & "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese". 

This post also shares my opinions about whether, when, and how these songs (and songs like them) should be sung.

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those whose examples are included in this post.
-snip-
This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series about this song. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/09/racially-derogatory-variants-of-old.html for the pancocojams post entitled "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese' Songs" Are Racially Derogatory Variants Of The Song "Old Shoe Boots And Leggings".

Also, click  https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/08/examples-of-crazy-baldheaded-chinese.html. for the pancocojams post entitled "Examples Of "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" Song That Include Contributors' Demographic Information".
-snip-
*Mudcat is an online international folk music forum. I was a member of Mudcat from 2004 to 2014. Almost all of the songs that are discussed on that forum are from Anglo-American and Anglo-European cultures. That forum also includes some discussion threads on certain types of Black American songs, on British and American children's rhymes, as well as a small amount of Caribbean folk songs. My main interest at Mudcat was English language children's recreational rhymes.

Both members and guests can post on Mudcat (i.e. add new discussion threads and/or comments to previous discussion threads). Almost all of the discussion threads are open to new comments regardless of how long ago those discussion threads were started.

****
COMMENTS FROM TWO MUDCAT DISCUSSION THREADS ABOUT THE SONGS "ONCE IN CHINA THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN" (or other titles for that song) AND  'THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE" 

Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.

A. https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6971

1.
Subject: RE: Lyrics requested ... Once in China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 09:23 AM

"From the TIME Magazine archive: (with formatting changed a bit by me)

"Chickery Chick

Dec. 3, 1945

 In the [18]70s, collegians at Amherst set the 100-year-old jingle to music and sang it over pots of ale, when they wanted to prove that they could walk a musical straight line. One of the many versions ran like this:

In China there lived a little man
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan,
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.
Chingery-rico-rico-day ekel tekel Happy man.
Kuan-a-desco cartty-o gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

Last week this old tongue twister, with new and even less intelligible lyrics, was the fast-climbing No. 2 seller in Billboard magazine's poll of record sales. It was well on its way to join Mairzy Doats and the Hut Sut Song in the jabberwocky Valhalla of the jukebox. Twenty-nine-year-old Arkansas-born Jo Proffitt had changed the Chinaman into a chick, and called it Chickery Chick. She sent the lyrics to Tin Pan Alleysmith Sidney Lippman, who added some new notes. Now it describes a chicken who got bored with saying "chick chick" all day, astounds his companions with some jived-up poultry poetry: Chickery-chick cha-la cha-la, Check-a-la-romey in a ba-nan-i-ka... .Tin Pan Alley actuarians estimate that the U.S. will need about three months to get over it.

-Copyright 1945 by Santly-Joy, Inc." "

**
2.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

"Under the Lilacs," Louisa May Alcott (see Joe Offer post, 26 Apr 05), was serialized in the children's "St. Nicholas Magazine." Chapter 21 with-

In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery Wangery Chan,-

appeared in vol. 5, no. 11, 5 Sept 1878.

This long-lived and popular children's magazine would ensure widespread disemination of the little rhyme."

**
3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man
From: GUEST,Hugh
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 05:22 PM

"I remember a song I heard at summer camp in Canada in the 60s. Unthinkable that anyone would sing it now. Clearly of the same origin as many of the other songs mentioned here, but a little different....

"Once in China lived a man
Name was Chickeracka Chee Chi Cho
Arms were long and legs were short
Chinaman could walk nor snort."

And the chorus went something like:

"Hoke chickeracka cheek chickaloro
Bongo loro piggywiggy wango
Hoko poko hit 'im in the coco
Chitterbee chatterbee chee chi cho."

For some reason it really sticks in my head over 40 years later. In fact, I found this thread because it was running through my head today, so I googled "Once in China lived a man". Weird."

**
4.
Subject: Lyr. Add: Chingery Chan
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM

"Jim Dixon posted the first verse of this old Amherst song. Here is the entire song. Many versions and additions since it first appeared in the 1860's.

Lyr. Add: CHINGERY CHAN

1.

In China there lived a little man,
His name was Chingery-ri-chan-chan;
His feet were large and his head was small,
And this little man had no brains at all.

Chorus:

Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Happy man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

2.

Miss Sky-high she was short and squat;
She had money, which he had not;
To her he then resolved to go,
And play her a tune on his little banjo.

Chorus:

3.

Miss Sky-high heard his notes of love;
She held his wash-bowl up above;
She poured it on the little man,
And that was the end of Chingery-chan.

Chorus:

Chingery-rico-rico-day,
Ekel-tekel. Injured man!
Kuan-a-desco-canty-o,
Gallopy-wallopy-china-go.

 

From the section on Songs of Amherst (E. C. Brayton), p. 178-179. No author cited.

H. R. Waite, Coll. and Ed., 1868, "Carmina Collegensia: A Complete Collection of the Songs of the American Colleges, with Piano-Forte Accompaniment. To Which Is Added a Compendium of College History." Oliver Ditson & Co. New York:-C. H. Ditson & Co"

**
5
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM

"The song was reprinted, without change, in the enlarged "Carmina Collegensia" of 1876."

**
6.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man
From: GUEST,R
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

"Wow! How cool that there is a website on this! My mom was a kindergarden teacher and taught me this song back in the early 70s. I loved it and made her sing it to me over and over and now I sing it to my son...he's only 5 months...unfortunately I won't be able to sing it once he understand and can repeat the words because it has now been deemed politically incorrect, but anyway...here is the version I know:

Once there was a China man
His name was Chicka chalu Chapan
His hair was short, his teeth were long
And this is the way he walked along,

Chicka chalu chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy, Chicka Challapy
Chicka Chalu, Chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy China Man

Alas this poor old man he died
And in his coffin did reside
They shipped him back to old Japan
And that was the end of the China Man

Chicka chalu chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy, Chicka Challapy
Chicka Chalu, Chalu Chapan
Challapy Allapy China Man"

**
7.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 11:38 AM

"I do hope that "The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag" by Country Joe & the Fish has an equally long life as this politically incorrect ditty. The "Fish" song, in my opinion, has some redeeming value.

I would still hesitate to sing "Once in China there lived a man" to any general audience unless I first characterized it as an anti-Chinese song. And, yes, I can understand why it's so much fun to sing within the family but it is still a song of ethnic if not racial ridicule.

At least mull that over before passing it on to another generation."

**
8
Subject: Origins: Once in China there lived a little man.
From: GUEST,patchouliaison
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

"My great grandfather used to sing this song, and it's been handed down in the family. I find it entirely racist and have asked my parents to stop singing it to my baby. They, of course, we're horrified I would make this request. Basically, I'm trying to prove them wrong, that it is a quite offensive song. Any ideas on where it came from? The version we learned goes like this:"...
-snip-
This comment continues with the words to that version of the song. 

**
9.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:06 AM

"patchouliaison. I quite agree. I find this song racist and offensive and I woder why anyone would want to bother singing it.

Just for the record, there is a version on CD, but no, I'm not prepared to provide any details."

**
10.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:40 AM

"Has anybody here looked closely at the lyrics before jumping on the usual bandwagons?

I've just been looking through the original 5 verse version from c1836 and the full song is definitely about one person and in no way implies this person is in any way typical of any race, in fact quite the opposite. The song is vaguely 19th century comic and there's lots of nonsense employed particularly in the chorus. There is just one hint that it might be a proto-minstrel song. If there is any prejudice implied here might I suggest that it is one of mocking a disabled person?

However, I do agree that one wouldn't want to offend by singing the song in public simply for the reactions and false perceptions it might invoke.

In the early 19th century there were thousands of songs of a similar nature caricaturing the Irish or a fictional Irishman. Some of these stage songs eventually were adopted into the Irish traditional repertoire and are still sung today by the Irish. Is it fine for the Irish to sing them but nobody else? (A rhetorical question)"

**
11.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 04:59 PM

"This thread is a testament to what can be achieved by a forum such as Mudcat. For a researching folklorist it is a goldmine. A plethora of variants. can I just make my usual plea, if you post a version sung in your family or community can you please tell us where and when at least?

As for any racist allusions, it is worth reading Azizi's post somewhere in the middle."
-snip-
August 16, 2023  - Here's my statement about Steve Gardham's comment mentioning me (written on August 16, 2023 and posted here on pancocojams with any attempt to re-post it on Mudcat.)

I was a very active member of Mudcat from Sept 2004 to 2011 and was somewhat less active on Mudcat between 2012 to Nov 2014 when I voluntarily withdrew my membership from that forum (by stating that to that forum). When Steve Gardham wrote his comment referring to me in 2020 I hadn’t been active on Mudcat for around five or six years. (I don't recall reading that comment until I started working on this pancocojams post on August 15,2023).

After withdrawing my membership on Mudcat, I wrote a few comments on that folk music forum in 2015  as a guest (with the name GUEST, Azizi and not with any other name). At some point in 2015 I found out that the comments that I attempted to add to Mudcat discussion threads weren't showing up on that forum (without any error message or any other statement) so I stopped trying to post any information or comments on Mudcat.

[Update: August 17, 2023- I tried and successfully added a comment to the Mudcat discussion thread https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174&messages=43 about changing the problematic referent "Chinese" in the song "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" to the word "neighbor" changing that title and line to "The Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor". That comment that I added to that Mudcat discussion thread is the same as a portion of my editorial notes that are found in this pancocojams post. 
-end of August 17, 2023 Update]

The only comments that I wrote on that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" discussion thread  were three comments in 2007. Two of those comments were about how I was re-thinking my guess that the children's rhyme "Stella Ola Ola" came from Spanish sources after reading examples of the "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" song. My third post (comment) on that particular Mudcat discussion thread was welcoming a guest to Mudcat and commenting on his statement that it was weird that he remembered that "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" song after forty years.
 
I still periodically visit Mudcat to read discussion threads and, as this pancocojams post demonstrates, a lot pancocojams posts include content from Mudcat discussion threads. 

I'm not sure what Steve Gardham's comment about me means. My guess is that his comment means that he thinks that a lot of my Mudcat posts were racist. I definitely don't agree with that.

As is the case with other members (and former members of that forum), anyone clicking on my name in any Mudcat thread would lead them to hyperlinked list of the dates and titles of all of my Mudcat comments. People can read those comments and judge for themselves whether they are racist or not. 

**
12.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Once in China there lived a great man...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 11:09 PM

"This is one of our earliest threads on "Chinaman" songs. And yes, it is still a f—king* racist song. And if you are more disturbed by the word "f—king*" than by the racism of this song, then maybe your head isn't screwed on right. I included the word "f—king*" as a test.

Mudcat is often criticized for allowing the posting of songs that are considered racist. But yet, Mudcat is a Website that studies folk songs, warts and all. It is not a site for cleaning up songs - "euphemization" is more-or-less anathema here. We post songs as they were originally sung, although we may clean them up a bit when we sing them.

But a song like this is pure racism, and can't be cleaned up like "The Cat Came Back" and "I've Been Working on the Railroad" or "Shortnin' Bread." This song is racist to the core. Sometimes, people will sing songs like this to illustrate the racism of the "Good Old Days," but songs like this should never be sung for enjoyment or entertainment. Songs like this may sound cute to some, but they're not. They're f—king* racist.

If you don't like the word "f—king*," get over it. If you're a racist, get over that, too.

Take a look at the Racist Songs** threads. We do not support racism in any way, but we do our best to report it accurately. There's a difference, although it may take a certain level of intelligence to understand that.

Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor"
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.-

**This words are given as a hyperlink. Here’s that link: https://mudcat.org/threadgroup.cfm?threadgroupid=1694 Run Ni—er*** Run - Threads about racial stereotyping, offensive lyrics, coon songs, etc.

***This word is fully spelled out in this title.

I've decided to use amended spelling on pancocojams for the n word and for profanity because I'm aware that most public schools in the USA prohibit content with those words completely spelled out and I want to increase the possibilities of pancocojams being used as a supplement in those schools.

****

B. https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=98174

1.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 10:52 PM

"I am sick and tired of all this "Chinaman" crap.

It is all racist drivel.

OK, I get it: you all thought it was "cute" when you learned it. And you are nostalgic for the days when you didn't know any better.

Well, now you do know better. Or you ought to.

It is no longer cute. It is disgusting.

I propose all these "Chinaman" threads be closed immediately.

We already have more versions than anybody could possibly have the patience to read.

Give it a rest. Permanently."

**
2.  
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:54 PM

"Well, Jim, the message previous to yours has two verses not posted before. This thread has only 18 posts, so we really haven't exhausted the song. I'll admit that songs like this make me cringe, but I think they're the most recent true examples of the folk process, since they're not apt to be affected by publishing. Not many books are going to publish songs like this. Lingenfelter and Dwyer Songs of the West has a number of "Chinaman" songs, but that's about the only printed source I can think of. I share your disgust with this type of song, but I think it's essential to preserve them and worthwhile to see how many versions have developed.

I don't think people have done THIS song to death, but I can't figure out why so many people have posted to the Once in China thread. That thread has 218 posts, and has been going since 1998."

**
3.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,betty
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:08 PM

"My mom taught it to me as a kid in the 90s.

My mother she told me to open the door
but I didn't wanna
I opened the door, he fell on the floor
the bald headed man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his coat
but I didn't wanna
took off his coat, he smelled like a goat
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his hat
but I didn't wanna
I took off his hat, he looked like a rat
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his shoes
but I didn't wanna
I took off his shoes, he sang the blues
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his pants
but I didn't wanna
I took off his pants, he started to dance
the bald head man from China

My mother, she told me to take off his shirt
but I didn't wanna
I took off his shirt, he fell in the dirt
the bald head man from China

That's all I remember. I always wondered why my mom (born in the 60s) told me to undress a bald head man from China who showed up at my door"

**
4.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:12 PM

"My grandfather taught me this song back in the late 40's (it was Crazy Baldheaded Chinese). I would sing it at bedtime and it drove my parents nuts because I had to sing every verse I knew. Would take forever for me to finish - thus prolonging my bedtime. Great memory."

**
5.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Pam A
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:23 PM

"Does anyone remember the tune? Did it have it's own or was it from something else?

Looking back at some of the earlier posts - I serioulsy doubt that there was any intent to insult anyone with this song. No more so than say - This Little Piggy, etc. Children's songs don't have to do anything else but entertain. Young children have no bias. They only learn about bias from the adults and older children around them. Can't they just be silly without everyone worrying about offending someone or something?"...

**

6.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,BRoman
Date: 27 May 13 - 11:28 PM

"My grandmother sang this to me when I was a child. Our version is a little different, but as Ive been reading everyone seems to have different verses. To whom ever ridiculously blew their top over a children's song well it's stupid. Im sorry, but when I heard it as a child and even now to this day when I sing it to my children I do not think of it as racist nor do my children. It was a funny song that I remember growing up. Get over yourself. To everyone else thanks for the other versions I have thoroughly enjoyed reading and knowing that other people have had the pleasure of enjoying it as well."

**
7.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 May 13 - 10:17 PM

"I stand by my previous remarks."

**

8.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Crazy old woman from china
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 08:09 PM

"Lol Jim Dixon calm the f—k* down

its assholes like you who vote yes to ban soda

 

racism exists

it always has

and always will

 

as a child however who sang this

 

I was not racist - I was a f—king* kid enjoying a funny song"
-snip-
*These words are fully spelled out in this comment.

**
9.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,It's Just For Fun, That's All
Date: 27 May 17 - 11:27 AM

"Jim Dixon told me to close this thread,
But I didn't wanna.
I closed the thread, he filled me with lead,
The P.C. man from China."

 **
10.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 27 May 17 - 12:46 PM

"I think Patrick Sky should have included this song in his Songs That Made America Famous album, it would fit perfectly.

I'm so sick of all these Chinaman sh-t* that I actually enjoy its sickness. Could drive my fellow Chinamen nuts."
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

**
11.
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Crazy Old Man From China
From: GUEST,Anonymous
Date: 05 Mar 18 - 06:06 PM

"I heard this song performed in concert, probably in the 1980s, as "The Dirty Old Man from Fresno." (The performer had changed it to remove the anti-Chinese slur, which I fully approved of. It doesn't really matter to the song where the old man came from--it just needs two syllables. I kind of like the idea of replacing the placename with "Nowhere.") The performer also sang the English folksong it descended from, which I remember as "Old Shoes and Leggings." "

****

MY OPINIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT "IN CHINA THERE LIVED A GREAT MAN", "THE CRAZY BALDHEADED CHINESE" AND SIMILAR SONGS  
I'm aware that for some people "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" are nostalgic songs, but they are also anti-Chinese songs. 

I believe that songs like "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and/or songs like it shouldn't be taught in schools for entertainment or recreational purposes. However, I believe that "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and songs/rhymes like it (such as "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" should be presented as supplements to teaching about racism in the United States and elsewhere, and specifically about anti-Chinese actions, laws, and attitudes in the United States and elsewhere.

I'm aware that for some people have fond memories of the songs  "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" and "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese". However, there should be little doubt that those songs ridicule Chinese people. 

I therefore recommend replacing the words China and Chinese in those songs with another word. 

An anonymous commenter wrote in 2018 on the Mudcat folk music forum wrote that "I heard this song performed in concert, probably in the 1980s, as "The Dirty Old Man from Fresno." (The performer had changed it to remove the anti-Chinese slur, which I fully approved of. It doesn't really matter to the song where the old man came from--it just needs two syllables."...

That commenter also reminded people that the song "Old Shoes And Leggings" is probably the source song for "The Crazy Baldheaded  Chinese" ("The Crazy Man From China").

I'll add that that the song "Old Shoes And Leggings" is a Scottish song that dates from the 18th century. That song ridicules old men who are trying to court young women. The song "Old Shoes And Leggings" doesn't include the word "China" or "Chinese" and doesn't have any other racial, ethnic, or nationality references.

In the spirit of what that anonymous commenter wrote and closer to the spirit of that old Scottish song, my suggestion is that words "China" or "Chinese" be retired from the songs that are now known as "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" and "The Crazy Old Man From China". Instead of those words, I recommend using the two syllable word "neighbor". As such, the title of "The Crazy Baldheaded Chinese" would be changed to "My Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor" and the title of "The Crazy Old Man From China" would be changed to "The Crazy Old Man, My Neighbor".

Corresponding to my 1950s childhood memories of this song, people would sing:
"My mother she told me to open the door
The little baldheaded neighbor bor bor
I opened the door. He fell on the floor
The little baldheaded neighbor bor bor"
-snip-

Or people could sing:
My mother she told me to open the door
But I didn't wanna

I opened the door. He fell on the floor
My crazy baldheaded neighbor.
-snip-
I believe that the word "neighbor" works pretty well as a replacement for the problematic word "Chinese" in that song because 1. the two syllable word "neighbor" isn't offensive and 2. the word 'neighbor"  somewhat explains why the mother told her child to open the door for that man who ended up doing those crazy things. 

People teaching the "The Crazy Baldheaded Neighbor" could use it as a way of reinforcing the lesson that children should not only be aware of "stranger danger" but should also be alert to the possibility that people they know might cause them harm. Therefore, regardless of who asks them, children should always refuse to do something they know isn't right or they feel isn't right. 

What do you think? I'm open to other suggestions besides the word "neighbor". The goal is to retire the offensive word and replace it with a word that isn't problematic. 

People replaced "the n word" in the "Eeny Meenie Miney Mo" counting out rhyme so successfully that few people even remember that derogatory term used to be a part of that rhyme. So substituting another word for an offensive word can be done if people choose to do it.

****

One reason why I think the song "Once In China There Lived A Great Man" is offensive is because the nonsense words in its chorus and verses were considered to be imitations of the way that non-Asians thought that Chinese people sounded when they spoke in their languages.

For example, here's an excerpt of the lyrics of one version of "Once In China There Lived A Great Man":
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUOfIdQ45Ck "Grammy: Chickety-Chickety Chan"
published by dinosaursareradical, Jun 12, 2012

"In Chinatown there lived a man
His name was Chickety-Chickety Chan
His feet were long and his toes were short
And this is the way the poor Chinamen talked

CHORUS:

Ooooh, chickety-chee chi-ly chi-lo
chickety-rummo inna-banana-wallya
wallya chi-na-key
inna-banana-ga-watchio"
-snip-
If the lyrics to these anti-Chinese songs were revised (cleaned up) and their racist versions weren't studied in schools/universities then some "history deniers" could claim that any anti-Chinese history ever happened in the USA and elsewhere.  

****
For the record (no pun intended), the tune that my sisters and I used for what we called "The Little Baldheaded Chinese" song closely fits the "Blow The Man Down" shanty (not that we knew that shanty when we were 7, 6, and 5 years old).

I should also mention that repeating the end of that word was the way that my sisters and I sung that song, but I haven't come across that pattern in any other examples of that song. I only suggest it because I remember it being  fun to do (Regardless of how much fun it may have been, our mother didn't allow us to sing that song again because she said it was "nasty").

****

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome. 

"Where The Watermelons Rot" (an original song by Madelynne Whitt based on "Down By The Bay Where The Watermelons Grow")

Brat TV, Aug 7, 2020

****
Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post focuses on the 2019 song "Where The Watermelons Rot" by Madelynne Whitt. That song is partly based on the folk song "Down By The Bay"/"Down By The Sea" (Where the watermelons grow)..

The complete lyrics for "Where The Watermelons Rot" are included in this post along with a few comments from that video's discussion thread.

In addition, this pancocojams post showcases a shortened version of "Where The Watermelons Rot" with the lyrics for that shortened version. 

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, and socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composer/s of the "Down By The Sea" ("Down By The Banks")  song.

Thanks also to Madelynne Whitt for her song "Where The Watermelons Rot". 
-snip-
This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series about the history of the song "Down By The Sea"/ "Down By The Bay" (including the 2020 adaption "Down By The Bay Where The Watermelons Rot." 

Although almost all pancocojams posts focus on African American culture and other Black cultures around the world, this "Down By The Sea"/"Bay" series is presented for general folkloric purposes. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-earliest-known-source-for-lyrics.html for the closely related pancocojams post entitled "The Earliest Known Sources For The Lyrics "Have you Ever Seen A Cow With A Green Eyebrow?" In "Down By The Sea Where The Watermelons Grow" Songs"

****
COMPLETE LYRICS - WHERE THE WATERMELON ROTS 
(composed by Madelynne Whitt)

Down by the bay (Down by the bay)
Where the watermelon rot ( where the watermelon rot)
If you go home (if you go home)
Just don't get caught (just don't get caught)

But if you do
Your mother will say
"Never trust a man under the sand
Down by the bay

When I go to sleep (when I go to sleep)
The book in my hand ( the book in my hand)
I know in my dream (know in my dream)
I'll see her there ( I'll see her there )

She isn't real
My parents lie
I know the truth but I can never tell you
Or thеy will all cry
Down by the bay (down by the bay)
Wherе the watermelons rot (where the watermelon rot)
If you go home (if you go home)
Just don't get caught ( just don't get caught)

But if you do
Our mother will say
"Don't run away I'll keep you safe
Down by the bay"

My father's home ( my fathers home)
Got me some shoes ( got me some shoes)
Out with the old (out with the old)
In with the new
He isn't real
My parents lie (lie)
I know the truth
But I could never tell you
Or they will all die

Down by the bay (down by the bay)
Where the watermelon rot (where the watermelon rot)
If you go home (If you go home)
Just don't get caught (just don't get caught)

But if you do
My mother will say
"You don't wanna know what's outside the window
Down by the bay'
But if you do
My mother will say
"You don't wanna know what's outside the window
Down by the bay''

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SHOWCASE VIDEO #2- "Where The Watermelons Rot/Down By The Bay" 🎃 By Madelynne Whitt (Maya Zoey)

 

-snip-
Here's the lyrics to this shortened version of  "Where The Watermelons Rot":

Down by the bay (Down by the bay)
Where the watermelon rot ( where the watermelon rot)
If you go home (if you go home)
Just don't get caught (just don't get caught)
But if you do
My mother will say
"You don't wanna know what's outside the window
Down by the bay''
-snip-
Based on TikTok clips, YouTube videos that I've watched and comments about this song that I've read, this appears to be the most common shortened lyrical version of Madelynne Whitt's song "Where The Watermelons Rot". 

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S COMMENTS ABOUT "WHERE THE WATERMELONS ROT"
"Where The Watermelons Rot" can be considered a contemporary version of the song "Down By The Sea (or "Down By The Bay' Where The Watermelons Grow".  "Down By The Sea" predates World War I (1914-1918). Early versions of this song include British soldier's song, a English language shanty (chanty) work song, and a children's nonsense rhyme version that includes the line "Have you ever seen a cow with a green eyebrow?" The most well known contemporary version of this song is the version by Canadian singer Raffi which was recorded in 1976.

In contrast to earlier "versions" of  "Down By The Sea"/"Bay", "Where The Watermelons Rot" has a known writer. Also, in contrast to those earlier versions, Madelynne Whitt's song doesn't include silly  rhyming verse such as "Did you ever see a cow with a green eyebrow?" and "Did you ever see a bear combing his hair?" Instead, "Where The Watermelons Rot" has a horror movie vibe.

Instead of focusing on the silly rhymes that were made in these earlier "versions" of "Down By The Bay" and/or making up their own nonsense rhyming verses, many commenters in YouTube videos of "Where The Watermelons Rot" (and other "versions" of "Down By The Bay" share their ideas of the what that song means. The interest in what the songs mean also extends to Raffi's and other singers' versions of "Down By The Bay". These "backstories" include tales of murder, kidnapping, the mother having dementia, the mother being on drugs, and more. 

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SOME COMMENTS ABOUT "WHERE THE WATERMELONS ROT"
These online sources are given in no order and are numbered for referencing purposes only.

Online Source #1
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnXZLA44u5Y [This is the video that is embedded in this pancocojams post.]
1.Scelly 19,2020
"I just love how they take a children’s song and make it to a whole horror song"

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2. Noelle Wastaken, 2020
"I remember a more kid friendlier version in elementary school

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Reply
3. 𝑳𝒂𝒄𝒆𝒚 ♥ 𝒉𝒐𝒓𝒔𝒆𝒔, 2021
"That’s what this is based off"

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4. Clover 🍀, 2020
"I heard my friend singing this and got very confused at first because I grew up knowing the more happy nursery rhyme / round. This is so surreal to listen to"

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5.Cherry,2020
"I... want theories, I want guesses, I want answers, I want to know the meaning behind this dark twist of the song."

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6. lee., 2020
"This song remind me of the show 'The Promised Neverland', the fake fosters, mother, new shoes, "I can never tell you or they will all die", "If you go home, just don't get caught". 'The Promised Neverland' is a show about Emma, Norman, and Ray, three 12 year old orphans living in a orphanage with Mother Isabella (I think was her name). After their friend Connie gets 'adopted' and leaves behind her favorite toy, Ray suggest the two go catch up to her before she leaves, they soon realize the 'orphanage' and Mother Isabella aren't what they seem."

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7. live_laugh_watermelon,2020
"I was listening to this and my sister obsessed with murder mysteries that was sitting beside me playing roblox suddenly started theorizing.

She was like:

OMG I feel like she's blind and was kidnapped by two people who keep her because they lost their daughter that looked like her and murdered her parents, (out with the old in with the new) and she knew these people weren't really her parents and the stench down by the bay she thought to be her actual parents corpses but the people who kidnapped her told her they were just rotting watermelons (my parents lie, he isn't real) . (don't trust the man from the sand) and she knows but has to keep pretending she doesn't until she finds a way to get away.

( if you go home, just don't get caught).

And I was like:

That sounds like a tiktok pov you watched earlier-"

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8. Azealia Banks, 2020
"Theory based on the Lyrics:

Her Father died at a very young age, he was a Watermelon Farmer so they thought it was fitting to bury him under the sand down by the bay near the Watermelons. (Never trust the man under the sand.) Her Mother tells her to never go down by the bay and that she'll keep her safe at home. She also tells her to lock the windows at night. One day however, she forgets too and she sees the spirit of her Father haunting her, curious she decides to investigate and she finds her Father's diary, the one she's holding the entire video, she gets curious and finally decides to go down the bay. She tries to find something but she sees the washed up shoes of her Father (My Father's Home, Bought me new Shoes) She starts to get haunted by her Father, she finally finds out the truth that her Father was killed by her Mother, She panics and doesn't know what to do (If you go home, just don't get caught) her mother than finds out that she knows and she murders her daughter and buries her body down by the bay. Her mother then is seen exiting the Bay."

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9. noonesnormal,2020
"Theory: She lost her husband and her baby girl. Her parents are trying to protect her and tell her that her hallucinations of them are real. She is aware they are dead and wants to go back home, but her parents don't want her going back home where her family died. She tries to kill herself down at the bay.

 

Edit: Thank you to everyone who liked my theory! I didn't even know people read it!"
-snip-
As of March 28, 2023 at 9:41 EDT, this comment has 7,200 likes and 91 replies.

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10. Dizzy_AnimeLover, 2021
"This would be perfect for an actual horror movie"

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11. JByepitsme, 2021
"I absolutely love this version❤. She sings and plays creepy very well. One my faves"

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12.☆ Existing ☆,2021
"I love this song, even if it's creepy :>"

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13. Priyanka Behera, 2022
"Yes true this is perfect for horror scenes and songs"

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14. Honey bunny,2022
"I actually have a theory about this song …. she actually killed her family by the bay and she buried them in the sand and her parents are trying to keep her from going to her home by the bay and her parents don’t want her going home because she’s mentally not OK this is just a theory"

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15. ♡ French-bread-vanilla ♡, 2023 
"The part where it says “she isn’t real, my parents lie” gives me horror movie chills. It sounds like one of the characters having like a spirit or demon or imaginary friend or enemy and nobody believing them and just trying to tell them it isn’t real but they know it is so there saying people are lying. It also ties well with the “I know the truth, but I couldn’t tell you or they would cry” it’s like the character wanting to tell people about it but they can’t."

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