Edited by Azizi Powell
Latest revision- November 7, 2019
This is Part II of a pancocojams series that documents selected YouTube discussion thread comments about commenters perceptions of certain rhymes being chanted or performed the wrong way.
Part II showcases YouTube videos of four different playground rhymes and selected comments from those videos' discussion threads about how those rhymes were said or performed. The featured playground rhymes are "Down Down Baby", "Double Double This", and "Welcome To McDonalds", and "Apple On A Stick".
These featured comments assert that a particular playground rhyme is "done wrong"* and some responses to those assertions.
This post also documents selected comments in which bloggers asserts that there's no one right way to say or perform a particular playground rhyme and simply share the way that they say and do that particular rhyme.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2015/09/youtube-comments-about-wrong-way-of.html for Part I of this post showcases a YouTube video of two young women performing ten "old school" playground rhymes (rhymes that they remember from their childhood or teen years).
The content of this post is presented for recreational and folkloric purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
****
EDITOR'S COMMENTS
A number of YouTube commenters write that a playground rhyme "goes" a certain way and that a person "did it wrong". In the context of a description of playground rhymes, how a rhyme "goes" means how it is said (chanted/sung) and/or how it is performed (the accompanying actions that are done while chanting the words to the rhyme). When a person said that the rhyme was "done wrong", she or he usually is referring to her or his perception that the words and/or the actions and/or the tune/tempo aren't those that she or he remembers as the "right" way of performing that playground rhyme.
In the almost fifteen years that I've been researching and collecting English language playground rhymes online I've noticed that an increasing number of commenters are moving from the position that there is only one "right" way of saying or performing any particular playground rhyme.
I believe that the very fact that multiple versions of playground rhymes are available for people to read and observe online is changing the way that children and other people think about playground rhymes. When I was growing up in the 1950s I assumed that the only way that a particular rhyme "went" (the words that were said and the way that hand game was played) was the way that I learned it. Nowadays, thanks in large part to YouTube, it appears to me that an increasing number of people are coming to the realization that there are usually multiple versions of a particular playground rhyme, and that there may not be any one "right version" (right way of doing or saying that particular rhyme).
People can attempt to find out and document the earliest version of a particular playground rhyme or early versions of that rhyme (the words, tunes, tempo of those versions and how they were performed). People can also surmise from observations and reading what were and what are the "usual" version/s of that rhyme is done (among certain populations within certain periods of time or during different periods of time). However, it's my position that variant forms of a playground rhyme (ones that are somewhat different from the "usual version/s") aren't particularly wrong. That said, a red flag about the authenticity of an online example that purport to be a child's remembrance of a playground rhyme if that version is quite different in themes, words, tune (cadence), and actions from other examples of that rhyme that I've come across.
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post, thanks to those who are featured in these videos, and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
****
FEATURED VIDEOS AND SELECTED COMMENTS
These videos are presented in chronological order according to their publishing dates with the oldest dated video given first. The quoted comments from those video's discussion thread are given below each video.
These comments are given in relative order based on their posting date with the oldest comments given first, except for replies. However, these comments may not be in consecutive order. I've assigned numbers to these comments for referencing purposes only.
Example #1: Down Down Baby Hand Clap Australia
yummum1978 Uploaded on Jun 6, 2010
The old school ground hand claps are back. This is the girls doing the down down baby hand clap. Good on ya girls
-snip-
"Old school" is an African American Vernacular English term that means "something from the past". The term is usually at least mildly positive.
-snip-
Selected comments:
1. dickysnicky, 2011
"my mum taught me dis thing but she learned it differently"
**
2. pepsicokemix , 2011
"This is how I learned it.
Down Down Baby, down down the roller coaster, sweet sweet baby, sweet sweet don't let me go. Shimmie Shimmie coca pop shimmie shimmie AH! I like coffe, I like tea, I like a little boy and he likes me! To the front, to the back, to the side side side, To the front, to the back, to the side side side, FREEZE!"
**
3. Melody2717, 2011
"I (from uk) used to do this: down down baby, down down the rollercoaster, sweet sweet baby, i'll never let you go, jimmy jimmy cocabow, jimmy jimmy pow, jimmy jimmy cocabow, jimmy jimmy pow, mama mama, sick in bed (all the same from here).
Weird how its basically the same all the way over here! Oh except it wasnt rhythm of the hot dog but rhtyhm of the heaaaarta (heart)"
**
4. yummum1978, 2011
"Hi 321Coffeequeen, I don't think it really matters how you do it along as you have fun. The girls had a great time learning it and performing it. P.S this is exactly the same one the 2 little girls off of sesame street did all those years ago."
-snip-
I can't find the comment that the video publisher yummum1978 is responding to.
Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-FpmUUc7U
"Sesame Street: Handclapping Chants" for the 1990s Sesame Street video of “Down Down Baby” that is mentioned in this comment.
**
5. nad pe, 2011
"u guys made a mistake its actually this: Down Down Baby Down Down the rollercoaster ( u do rollercoaster with ur hand) Sweet sweet baby sweet sweet dont let me go ( u do a and X with only two hands) Shimme Shimme Cocoa puff shimme shimme raaaw (u flip ur hair) shimme shimme cocoa puff shimme shimme raaaw mamamama sick in bed she called the docter and the docter said lets get the rythem of the head ding dong (repeat) lets get the rythem of the hands (repeat) lets get the rythem on the feet"
**
6. Ian Martinez, 2013
"I did it different than the Australian version but i live in the USA so what do you expect!!!!!!"
**
7. Noelle Romero, 2013
"We did it differently when I was in elementary. I live in the U.S,"
**
8. ChildoftheUniverse, May 2015
"LOL I love it . I grew up in the 80s in NYC and we did it the exact same way. It's amazing and I love that you kids are still doing this nowadays. Great job :-)"
****
Example #2: How to play the Double double clapping game
Kidspot, Published on May 23, 2013
Clapping games are a great way to improve motor skills and language development. Double double is a fun quick clapping game you can teach your kids.
-snip-
I find the comments about this playground rhyme (hand game) to be interesting because, unlike the other examples in this series, it's not the words to the rhyme that are in dispute. The commenters are asserting that the children in the video are performing the hand game wrong (i.e. different from the standard way that it's performed, at least in the United States where the hand game likely originated.) Can't there be more than one "right" way to play this particular hand game?
-snip-
Selected comments:
Except for the video uploader’s replies, all of the comments to date in this video's discussion thread are assertions that the girls in the video did this hand game wrong.
1. Keana Mooney, 2013
"Thats not how i do it"
**
REPLY
2. Kidspot, 2013
"Thanks for pointing out that there ARE other ways to do this, you're right! But that doesn't make this wrong!"
-snip-
There are no replies to this comment or to any other comment that Kidspot (this video's publisher) wrote.
**
3. Vineeta Ishwarlal, 2013
"this isn't the right way to do the clapping part"
**
4. Sophie Malcolm, 2013
"That isn't proper double is hands clenched"
**
REPLY
5. Kidspot, 2013
"Thanks for watching! There ARE other ways to play this game - you obviously play it differently. It's nice to see how different people play it though, don't you think?"
**
6. Hannah Castleton, 2014
"its wrong"
**
7. Courtney Craker, 2014
"That's wrong, it should be double, double with fists.. this this is your palms, and that that is the back of your hands
and its
double
double
this
this
double
double
that
that
double
this
double
that
double
double
this
that"
**
REPLY
8. diana Gonzalez, May 2015
"Your right that's how you do it"
**
9. Liena Dilone, 2014
"Not right fist is double"
-snip-
This comment is likely punctuated as [That is] Not right. [You make a] fist [on the word] double.
**
10. alwaysminecraft, 2014
"fist fist. pat backward 2 times , pat 2 times,fist then backward pat,backward pat then pat"
**
11. Chloe Sloger, May 2015
"you guys do it wrong learn the right way or dont do it at all"
**
12. Kidspot, May 2015
"+Chloe Sloger why do you think it is wrong? We are in Aussie, it may be slightly different around the world?"
****
Example #3: Welcome to McDonald's Hand Game | The Ciera and Olivia Show | July 28, 2014
Ciera and Olivia Show, Published on Jul 28, 2014
Welcome to McDonald's! Can I take your order? LOL Tell us if you like or ever heard of our hand game. Let us know if you'd like to see more of our hand games.
-snip-
Selected comments:
1.CanadianQueen76, 2014
"I have never heard of this hand game."
**
REPLY
2. Ciera and Olivia Show, 2014
"Olivia's friend made it up"
-snip-
In my (admittedly informal, mostly online) research of contemporary English language playground rhymes I've found that children will often claim that they made up a rhyme if they use even slightly different words for that rhyme. "Making up" a rhyme doesn't mean making it up "from scratch" (without there being any previous example that is somewhat changed by adding or subtracting words and/or actions.) And if a child believes that she or he made up a rhyme, then it's likely that child would think that her or his version of that rhyme wouldn't be wrong - since that version is the "original" form of that rhyme.
**
3. Naquia sutton, 2015
"I've heard of it but me and my friends do it a different way"
**
4. MLP K&B, 2015
"We do this to but we play it different. It goes with a different hand movement and it really hard and fast. You have to snap and hit your hips and stuff but I got it now. This is ours.
Welcome to McDonald's may I take your order,
Yes, you may. Yes you may.
I want a Big Mac, curly fries,
Soda pop and apple pie,
A Million dollars and a really cute guy,
(Clap, snap) To Go!!!
:3"
-snip-
":3" is a symbol for "smile"
**
5. Heather Vaniwarden, 2015
"That s not how you do it but I love how u do it love u😽"
**
janiah Simone, 2015
"I heard of the game McDonald's and I know how to do it but u did it wrong"
**
6. Melissa Brown, 2015
"That's not how it goes. It goes like this. Welcome to McDonalds May I take you order Yes I would like a Big fat falaya fish Quarter pound French fry Icee cold a milkshake Sunday is an apple pie "
**
REPLY
7. Bl4ckSting, 2015
"+Melissa Brown everyone can do it a different way"
**
8. The cool girl 😎😎, 2015
"Omg not trying to be mean but that's not how to play"
**
REPLY
9. Ciera and Olivia Show, 2015
"+The cool girl 😎😎 How do you play it?"
-snip-
As of this date, there's no published response to that question.
UPDATE: On February 28, as a result of YouTube's ban on comments on most YouTube videos featuring children under 13 years of age, all of the comments in this discussion thread (and every other discussion thread for videos in this post) have been deleted.
**
10. Taylor Nelson, 2015
"Sorry girls thats not how u play"
****
[Added November 7, 2019]
How to play Apple on a stick clapping game
Kidspot, May 23, 2013
Clapping games are a great way to improve motor skills and language development. Apple on a stick is a fun clapping game you can teach your kids.
Apple on a stick makes me sick
makes my heart go two-46
Not because you're dirty, not because you're clean
Not because you kissed a boy behind a magazine
Girls, boys, having fun
Here comes a cat with an annoying hum
It can suibble it can squabble it can even do the splits
But I betcha, I betcha, you can do this
Close your eyes and count to 10
(close eyes)
If you stuff it up you're a big fat hen
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10
You didn't stuff it up so you're my best friend
Hints and tips:
The game is made up of a few moves, repeated over and over in the same sequence. Watch the video to see the moves in slow motion.
1. Hands together, swish hands with other player.
2. Keep hands together, clap each outer hand to the middle.
3. Clap your outer hand to the other player's outer hand. Do it above your joined together hands.
4. Clap each outer hand to the middle.
5. Take outer hands, go under joined hands in middle and grab hands cross-ways. Let go.
6. Grab over hands together cross-ways and pat your hip twice with your free hand.
7. Take same hand (from hip) click it in the air twice then ...
8. Slap that hand together front-ways in the middle.
9. Slap that hand backs together in the middle.
10. Each player puts their hands together again and ... swish, start again.
-snip-
Here are several comments in which the commenters share the way they say or perform this rhyme, but don't assert that other ways of saying or doing this rhyme are wrong.
I added these comments which I had saved some time ago because they were deleted along with millions of other comments because of YouTube's February 2019 ban against posting comments to videos that feature children under 13 years old.
Florence S, 2017
"Never knew there were so much different ways to sing it till i scrolled through the comments, lol. Mines
"Apple on a stick, makes me sick. Makes my heart beat 2,40,6. Not because you're dirty not because you're clean. Not because you kissed a boy behind a magazine. Boys, girls, having fun. Here comes a lady with a pickle up her bum. She can do the cartwheel she can do the splits, but i bet ya, i bet ya, she can't do this. Close your eyes and count to 10 if you muck it all up your not my friend."
**
Latifa Yakubu, 2018
"I do it like this: apple on a stick makes me sick makes my heart beat 2/4/6 not because you're dirty not because you're clean just because you kissed the boy behind the magazine. Boys boys having all the fun here comes Mike with his tie undone he can do the wibble wobble he can do the splits but I bet you 10 dollars he Canne dae this close your eyes and count to ten if you mess up you have to start again
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
You didne mess up so you're ma best friend
BTW I live in Scotland so we use slang in ours"
**
Esther LeClaire, 2018
"I sing it this way:
Apple on a stick,
it makes me sick,
it makes my heart go 2 4 6!
Not because I'm dirty, not because I'm clean,
not because I kissed a frog behind a magazine!
So come on girls, lets have some fun,
here comes a lady with a big fat bum!
She can do the wiggle waggle, she can do the splits,
But I bet you ten bucks she can't do this!
Close your eyes and count to ten,
If you mess up, start over again!
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 8 9 10!"
**
Paul Somerville, 2018
"I say it like this
Apple on a stick it makes me sick. Makes my heart beat 2.46. Not because your dirty not because ur clean. Not because you kissed a boy behind a magazine. Boys girls having fun now here comes the lady with the big fat bum. She can wibble it and wobble it and do the splits but I bet ya I bet ya she can’t do this. Close your eyes and count to ten if u muck it up ur not my friend. 12345678910. You didn’t muck it up so ur still my friend and that’s the end of chapter ten amen"
****
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Showing posts with label children's playground rhymes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label children's playground rhymes. Show all posts
Friday, September 25, 2015
YouTube Comments About "The Wrong Way" Of Saying Or Doing A Particular Playground Rhyme, Part I
Edited by Azizi Powell
Latest revision- November 7, 2019
This is Part I of a pancocojams series that documents selected YouTube discussion thread comments about commenters perceptions of certain rhymes being chanted or performed the wrong way.
Part I of this post showcases a YouTube video of two young women performing ten "old school" playground rhymes (rhymes that they remember from their childhood or teen years). The featured comments are those which assert that a particular playground rhyme is "done wrong"* and some responses to those assertions. at th. This post also documents selected comments in which bloggers asserts that there's no one right way to say or perform a particular playground rhyme.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2015/09/youtube-comments-about-wrong-way-of_25.html for Part II of this post. Part II showcases three YouTube videos of three different playground rhymes and selected comments from those videos' discussion threads about how those rhymes were said or performed. The playground rhymes that are featured in that post are "Down Down Baby", "Double Double This", and "Welcome To McDonalds".
****
EDITOR'S COMMENTS
A number of YouTube commenters write that a playground rhyme "goes" a certain way and that a person "did it wrong". In the context of a description of playground rhymes, how a rhyme "goes" means how it is said (chanted/sung) and/or how it is performed (the accompanying actions that are done while chanting the words to the rhyme). When a person said that the rhyme was "done wrong", she or he usually is referring to her or his perception that the words and/or the actions and/or the tune/tempo aren't those that she or he remembers as the "right" way of performing that playground rhyme.
In the almost fifteen years that I've been researching and collecting English language playground rhymes online I've noticed that an increasing number of commenters are moving from the position that there is only one "right" way of saying or performing any particular playground rhyme.
I believe that the very fact that multiple versions of playground rhymes are available for people to read and observe online is changing the way that children and other people think about playground rhymes. When I was growing up in the 1950s I assumed that the only way that a particular rhyme "went" (the words that were said and the way that hand game was played) was the way that I learned it. Nowadays, thanks in large part to YouTube, it appears to me that an increasing number of people are coming to the realization that there are usually multiple versions of a particular playground rhyme, and that there may not be any one "right version" (right way of doing or saying that particular rhyme).
People can attempt to find out and document the earliest version of a particular playground rhyme or early versions of that rhyme (the words, tunes, tempo of those versions and how they were performed). People can also surmise from observations and reading what were and what are the "usual" version/s of that rhyme is done (among certain populations within certain periods of time or during different periods of time). However, it's my position that variant forms of a playground rhyme (ones that are somewhat different from the "usual version/s") aren't particularly wrong. That said, a red flag about the authenticity of an online example that purport to be a child's rememberance of a playground rhyme if that version is quite different in themes, words, tune (cadence), and actions from other examples of that rhyme that I've come across.
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post, thanks to those who are featured in these videos, and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
****
FEATURED VIDEO AND SELECTED COMMENTS
These comments are given in relative order based on their posting date with the oldest comments given first, except for replies. However, these comments may not be in consecutive order. I've assigned numbers to these comments for referencing purposes only.
Fun hand games
fatcat123455, Uploaded on Dec 24, 2011
old school hand games from way back.. can u remember any more??? i got like 10 of them
1.bo bo seantin tatin 2.miss mary mack
3. i dont want to go to mexico 4.tweet tweet tweet 5.my mother your mother 6. down down baby 7. little sally walker 8.double double this this 9. ini mini sicilini
10. i went to a chineese restaurant 11. ce ce my play mate
-snip-
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/10/various-playground-rhymes-performed-by.html for another pancocojams post that features this video.
Text examples (the words) to some of the rhymes that are included in that video may be found on pancocojams. Insert the title of the rhyme in the pancocojams search engine to find those posts. The texts to those rhymes can be found on pancocojams pages of my cocojams2 playground rhymes blog http://cocojams2.blogspot.com/
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note: November 7, 2019
On February 28, 2019 YouTube enacted a ban on comments for most YouTube videos that feature children under the age of 13 years. In addition to disallowing future comments, all of the comments that were written in those YouTube videos' discussion threads were deleted.
Since this video features young adults, this video's discussion thread isn't affected by that new policy.
Here are selected comments from that discussion thread. Most of these comments focus assertions that the women chanted or performed one or more of these rhymes "the wrong way" or responses to those assertions.
I've also included an exchange (that I participated in) about whether or not the performance of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant should be changed to remove the stretching eyes movement that the women did to mimic "Asian eyes".
Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.
1. bubbles bubbles, 2012
"wow nice i remember a lot of these. But u got them but some of its a little wrong but good job"
**
REPLY
2. NubianP6, 2012
"I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way to do these...it's mostly a regional thing. Several of them are a bit different from what I learned growing up in Florida, but I still recognized most of them... :)"
**
REPLY
3. Otha Day, 2012
"Agree - there is no right or wrong.....these are part of the folk tradition of music-making, story-telling, game-playing and dancing. As such, they change and evolve.....Growing up in Chicago, I recognize a number of them as variants on what kids used to do in the 60's and 70's. THANKS for sharing them! As a Black music educator and drum circle facilitator it is so good to see young Blacks beginning to make and share videos like this."
**
4. Otha Day, 2012
"I love these! Great job!! my only complaint is to have wished you to have changed the ending of "Chinese Restaurant" so that the stereotyped Asian faces part was excluded or better yet, changed to something that was celebratory and not derogatory. Otherwise, so glad that you shared."
**
REPLY
5. faeriefirefly917, 2012
"No way! Stop being so PC! Changing them would ruin them. Don't be so sensitive. This is in no way derogatory."
**
REPLY
6. Azizi Powell, 2012
"Actually, there are alot of derogatory words (& in this case accompanying mimicking actions) in children's rhymes. And the words to playground rhymes change all the time accidentally because of mishearing or misremembering or not recognizing a word or phrase & substituting that unfamilar word/phrase for another one. So there's nothing wrong with purposely changing a word/phrase that is offensive & hurtful. And if you were Asian, it's likely you'd fine that version offensive & hurtful."
**
REPLY
7. Azizi Powell, 2012
"Just like the "eenie meenie" rhyme was changed on purpose, that Chinese Restaurant rhyme has been & can be.
That said, I congratulate the two girls who made the video for documenting the way the rhymes were when they learned them. It's one thing to document the way rhymes were for the "folkloric record" & another thing to encourage children nowadays to perform them in the exact same way you remember."
**
REPLY
8. fatcat123455, 2012
"well the chinese restasurant was how i sang it as a kid... we didnt kno any better back then to kno if we were singing offensive things... but thx for the comments anywho :)"
**
9. lovethoseplumbs, 2013
"you did one wrong!"
-snip-
“did one wrong” may mean the words that are said and/or the actions that are done while chanting the words
**
REPLY
10. Visha Hicks, 2013
"she didn't do them wrong they change overtime"
**
REPLY
11. The K-POP NERD Fatema Kamal, 2013
"SHE SAID THE HAND GAMES WERE OLD SCHOOL ,SO MOST OF THEM WOULD HAVE A MODERN TWIST TO THEM. LIKE "I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEXICO". SHE DID ANOTHER VERSION, BUT I THINK MOST OF US ARE USED TO JUST THE WORDS:
SHAME SHAME
I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEXICO NO MORE MORE
THERE IS A BIG FA[T] POLICEMAN/WOMAN AT THE DOOR DOOR
IF YOU OPEN THE DOOR
HE'LL/SHE'LL PEE ON THE FLOOR
I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEXICO NO MORE MORE
NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND???"
**
12. LittleRedBug1, 2013
"some of those hand games r so wrong....learn the right way."
**
13. jaz lor, 2013
"thanks girls!! i was trying to remember them cuz I was teaching my 7 yr old daughter how to play. great job. she was showing me how they play now and the songs have stuff like kissing boys and says that barney is dumm."
**
14. Alicia Wilkins, 2013
"I remember alot of these, but the eenie meanie sicilini one, everyone has different words to it. Still, brought back a lot of memories. xD"
**
15. IAmLorraineV, 2013
"she didn't do them wrong they change overtime"
REPLY
16. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"IAmLorraineV not only over time, they also change depending on where you lived. It’s like that game whisper down the lane. These games were passed on by word of mouth so there are going to be slight variations."
**
17. Amy Carroll , 2014
"There is no wrong, just different versions! Good for you for holding onto these and trying to keep them alive."
**
18. period pooh!1!, 2014
"i went to the chineese market is wrong"
**
REPLY
19. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"Lanny2thicc I think different places just had different variations of the games. Kinda like how different places have different slang and such"
**
REPLY
20. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"Lanny2thicc makes me think of that game whisper down the lane..like these games we’re passed around by mouth so they’re going to change as you go down the line. Yknow what I mean?"
-snip-
It appears that the screen name "Lanny2thicc" was changed to " period pooh!1!"
**
21. william baldwin, 2015
"Mexico was wrong it goes like shame shame shame I don't wanna go to mexico no more more more there's a big fat policemen at the door door door if you open the door he gonna pee on your floor I don't wanna go to mexico no more more more STUPID GIRLS"
**
REPLY
22. Try New Things :3, 2015
"man that wrong they said it rite"
**
REPLY
23. Brianna Winchester, 2015
"+william baldwin Lmao that's the one I'm used to, too. But there's different variations of it obviously."
**
REPLY
24. Faith Paul, July, 2015
"They did it right Caz people learn that song different ways"
**
REPLY
25. Mollie Ralston, 2015
"+william baldwin , ive never herd it that way and it seems by these comments that your way is the uncommon way so youre wrong.STUPID BOY"
**
26. Shelley Coleman, March 2015
"at my school we do 2 versions of shame shame shame the firt one goes ... shame shame shame i dont want to go too mexico no more more more theres a big fat policeman at my door door door he grabed me by my collar then made pay a dollar i dont want to go too mexico no more more more then the second one is .... shame shame shame i dont want to go to mexico no more more more theres a big fat policeman at my door door door he grabbed me by the hips kissed me on lips i dont want to go too mexico no more more more"
**
27. Kristinaisbored, 2015
"I luved to play down down baby but I played it diffrent"
**
28. Joslyn DeRousse, 2015
"The vary last one they did i did while doing jump rope except for the end you say is it a boy,girl,twins or a alien and repeat until you mess up"
**
29. dance stars 52, 2016
"you guys didn't do miss marry mak right"
**
30. Pat Gor, 2018
"Yoll did mommy having a baby rong"
**
31. Cristina Joyce, 2019
"That isnt how you do my mother your mother"
**
32. Gee Idk, 2019
"I did I went to a Chinese restaurant differently
I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread. They wrapped it up in bubblegum and this is what they said said said. My name is chicka chicka boom boom I like karate. Punch you in the stomach. Oops I'm sorry. Don't tell mommy. Chinese, Japanese criss-cross apple sauce. Do me a favor and just get lost.
That's the way I did it"
**
33. 10oughnut Donut, 2019
"This prove that my hand game life was a lie when I was younger I would play those game a lot but people showed me those game wrong"
**
REPLY
34. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"10oughnut Donut nah, I think different places just had different variations. I’m from Philadelphia and some of the motions and rhymes were slightly different for my school."
****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams>
Visitor comments are welcome.
Latest revision- November 7, 2019
This is Part I of a pancocojams series that documents selected YouTube discussion thread comments about commenters perceptions of certain rhymes being chanted or performed the wrong way.
Part I of this post showcases a YouTube video of two young women performing ten "old school" playground rhymes (rhymes that they remember from their childhood or teen years). The featured comments are those which assert that a particular playground rhyme is "done wrong"* and some responses to those assertions. at th. This post also documents selected comments in which bloggers asserts that there's no one right way to say or perform a particular playground rhyme.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2015/09/youtube-comments-about-wrong-way-of_25.html for Part II of this post. Part II showcases three YouTube videos of three different playground rhymes and selected comments from those videos' discussion threads about how those rhymes were said or performed. The playground rhymes that are featured in that post are "Down Down Baby", "Double Double This", and "Welcome To McDonalds".
****
EDITOR'S COMMENTS
A number of YouTube commenters write that a playground rhyme "goes" a certain way and that a person "did it wrong". In the context of a description of playground rhymes, how a rhyme "goes" means how it is said (chanted/sung) and/or how it is performed (the accompanying actions that are done while chanting the words to the rhyme). When a person said that the rhyme was "done wrong", she or he usually is referring to her or his perception that the words and/or the actions and/or the tune/tempo aren't those that she or he remembers as the "right" way of performing that playground rhyme.
In the almost fifteen years that I've been researching and collecting English language playground rhymes online I've noticed that an increasing number of commenters are moving from the position that there is only one "right" way of saying or performing any particular playground rhyme.
I believe that the very fact that multiple versions of playground rhymes are available for people to read and observe online is changing the way that children and other people think about playground rhymes. When I was growing up in the 1950s I assumed that the only way that a particular rhyme "went" (the words that were said and the way that hand game was played) was the way that I learned it. Nowadays, thanks in large part to YouTube, it appears to me that an increasing number of people are coming to the realization that there are usually multiple versions of a particular playground rhyme, and that there may not be any one "right version" (right way of doing or saying that particular rhyme).
People can attempt to find out and document the earliest version of a particular playground rhyme or early versions of that rhyme (the words, tunes, tempo of those versions and how they were performed). People can also surmise from observations and reading what were and what are the "usual" version/s of that rhyme is done (among certain populations within certain periods of time or during different periods of time). However, it's my position that variant forms of a playground rhyme (ones that are somewhat different from the "usual version/s") aren't particularly wrong. That said, a red flag about the authenticity of an online example that purport to be a child's rememberance of a playground rhyme if that version is quite different in themes, words, tune (cadence), and actions from other examples of that rhyme that I've come across.
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post, thanks to those who are featured in these videos, and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
****
FEATURED VIDEO AND SELECTED COMMENTS
These comments are given in relative order based on their posting date with the oldest comments given first, except for replies. However, these comments may not be in consecutive order. I've assigned numbers to these comments for referencing purposes only.
Fun hand games
fatcat123455, Uploaded on Dec 24, 2011
old school hand games from way back.. can u remember any more??? i got like 10 of them
1.bo bo seantin tatin 2.miss mary mack
3. i dont want to go to mexico 4.tweet tweet tweet 5.my mother your mother 6. down down baby 7. little sally walker 8.double double this this 9. ini mini sicilini
10. i went to a chineese restaurant 11. ce ce my play mate
-snip-
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/10/various-playground-rhymes-performed-by.html for another pancocojams post that features this video.
Text examples (the words) to some of the rhymes that are included in that video may be found on pancocojams. Insert the title of the rhyme in the pancocojams search engine to find those posts. The texts to those rhymes can be found on pancocojams pages of my cocojams2 playground rhymes blog http://cocojams2.blogspot.com/
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note: November 7, 2019
On February 28, 2019 YouTube enacted a ban on comments for most YouTube videos that feature children under the age of 13 years. In addition to disallowing future comments, all of the comments that were written in those YouTube videos' discussion threads were deleted.
Since this video features young adults, this video's discussion thread isn't affected by that new policy.
Here are selected comments from that discussion thread. Most of these comments focus assertions that the women chanted or performed one or more of these rhymes "the wrong way" or responses to those assertions.
I've also included an exchange (that I participated in) about whether or not the performance of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant should be changed to remove the stretching eyes movement that the women did to mimic "Asian eyes".
Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.
1. bubbles bubbles, 2012
"wow nice i remember a lot of these. But u got them but some of its a little wrong but good job"
**
REPLY
2. NubianP6, 2012
"I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" way to do these...it's mostly a regional thing. Several of them are a bit different from what I learned growing up in Florida, but I still recognized most of them... :)"
**
REPLY
3. Otha Day, 2012
"Agree - there is no right or wrong.....these are part of the folk tradition of music-making, story-telling, game-playing and dancing. As such, they change and evolve.....Growing up in Chicago, I recognize a number of them as variants on what kids used to do in the 60's and 70's. THANKS for sharing them! As a Black music educator and drum circle facilitator it is so good to see young Blacks beginning to make and share videos like this."
**
4. Otha Day, 2012
"I love these! Great job!! my only complaint is to have wished you to have changed the ending of "Chinese Restaurant" so that the stereotyped Asian faces part was excluded or better yet, changed to something that was celebratory and not derogatory. Otherwise, so glad that you shared."
**
REPLY
5. faeriefirefly917, 2012
"No way! Stop being so PC! Changing them would ruin them. Don't be so sensitive. This is in no way derogatory."
**
REPLY
6. Azizi Powell, 2012
"Actually, there are alot of derogatory words (& in this case accompanying mimicking actions) in children's rhymes. And the words to playground rhymes change all the time accidentally because of mishearing or misremembering or not recognizing a word or phrase & substituting that unfamilar word/phrase for another one. So there's nothing wrong with purposely changing a word/phrase that is offensive & hurtful. And if you were Asian, it's likely you'd fine that version offensive & hurtful."
**
REPLY
7. Azizi Powell, 2012
"Just like the "eenie meenie" rhyme was changed on purpose, that Chinese Restaurant rhyme has been & can be.
That said, I congratulate the two girls who made the video for documenting the way the rhymes were when they learned them. It's one thing to document the way rhymes were for the "folkloric record" & another thing to encourage children nowadays to perform them in the exact same way you remember."
**
REPLY
8. fatcat123455, 2012
"well the chinese restasurant was how i sang it as a kid... we didnt kno any better back then to kno if we were singing offensive things... but thx for the comments anywho :)"
**
9. lovethoseplumbs, 2013
"you did one wrong!"
-snip-
“did one wrong” may mean the words that are said and/or the actions that are done while chanting the words
**
REPLY
10. Visha Hicks, 2013
"she didn't do them wrong they change overtime"
**
REPLY
11. The K-POP NERD Fatema Kamal, 2013
"SHE SAID THE HAND GAMES WERE OLD SCHOOL ,SO MOST OF THEM WOULD HAVE A MODERN TWIST TO THEM. LIKE "I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEXICO". SHE DID ANOTHER VERSION, BUT I THINK MOST OF US ARE USED TO JUST THE WORDS:
SHAME SHAME
I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEXICO NO MORE MORE
THERE IS A BIG FA[T] POLICEMAN/WOMAN AT THE DOOR DOOR
IF YOU OPEN THE DOOR
HE'LL/SHE'LL PEE ON THE FLOOR
I DON'T WANT TO GO TO MEXICO NO MORE MORE
NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND???"
**
12. LittleRedBug1, 2013
"some of those hand games r so wrong....learn the right way."
**
13. jaz lor, 2013
"thanks girls!! i was trying to remember them cuz I was teaching my 7 yr old daughter how to play. great job. she was showing me how they play now and the songs have stuff like kissing boys and says that barney is dumm."
**
14. Alicia Wilkins, 2013
"I remember alot of these, but the eenie meanie sicilini one, everyone has different words to it. Still, brought back a lot of memories. xD"
**
15. IAmLorraineV, 2013
"she didn't do them wrong they change overtime"
REPLY
16. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"IAmLorraineV not only over time, they also change depending on where you lived. It’s like that game whisper down the lane. These games were passed on by word of mouth so there are going to be slight variations."
**
17. Amy Carroll , 2014
"There is no wrong, just different versions! Good for you for holding onto these and trying to keep them alive."
**
18. period pooh!1!, 2014
"i went to the chineese market is wrong"
**
REPLY
19. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"Lanny2thicc I think different places just had different variations of the games. Kinda like how different places have different slang and such"
**
REPLY
20. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"Lanny2thicc makes me think of that game whisper down the lane..like these games we’re passed around by mouth so they’re going to change as you go down the line. Yknow what I mean?"
-snip-
It appears that the screen name "Lanny2thicc" was changed to " period pooh!1!"
**
21. william baldwin, 2015
"Mexico was wrong it goes like shame shame shame I don't wanna go to mexico no more more more there's a big fat policemen at the door door door if you open the door he gonna pee on your floor I don't wanna go to mexico no more more more STUPID GIRLS"
**
REPLY
22. Try New Things :3, 2015
"man that wrong they said it rite"
**
REPLY
23. Brianna Winchester, 2015
"+william baldwin Lmao that's the one I'm used to, too. But there's different variations of it obviously."
**
REPLY
24. Faith Paul, July, 2015
"They did it right Caz people learn that song different ways"
**
REPLY
25. Mollie Ralston, 2015
"+william baldwin , ive never herd it that way and it seems by these comments that your way is the uncommon way so youre wrong.STUPID BOY"
**
26. Shelley Coleman, March 2015
"at my school we do 2 versions of shame shame shame the firt one goes ... shame shame shame i dont want to go too mexico no more more more theres a big fat policeman at my door door door he grabed me by my collar then made pay a dollar i dont want to go too mexico no more more more then the second one is .... shame shame shame i dont want to go to mexico no more more more theres a big fat policeman at my door door door he grabbed me by the hips kissed me on lips i dont want to go too mexico no more more more"
**
27. Kristinaisbored, 2015
"I luved to play down down baby but I played it diffrent"
**
28. Joslyn DeRousse, 2015
"The vary last one they did i did while doing jump rope except for the end you say is it a boy,girl,twins or a alien and repeat until you mess up"
**
29. dance stars 52, 2016
"you guys didn't do miss marry mak right"
**
30. Pat Gor, 2018
"Yoll did mommy having a baby rong"
**
31. Cristina Joyce, 2019
"That isnt how you do my mother your mother"
**
32. Gee Idk, 2019
"I did I went to a Chinese restaurant differently
I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread. They wrapped it up in bubblegum and this is what they said said said. My name is chicka chicka boom boom I like karate. Punch you in the stomach. Oops I'm sorry. Don't tell mommy. Chinese, Japanese criss-cross apple sauce. Do me a favor and just get lost.
That's the way I did it"
**
33. 10oughnut Donut, 2019
"This prove that my hand game life was a lie when I was younger I would play those game a lot but people showed me those game wrong"
**
REPLY
34. Briana Jeanne, 2019
"10oughnut Donut nah, I think different places just had different variations. I’m from Philadelphia and some of the motions and rhymes were slightly different for my school."
****
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Visitor comments are welcome.
Sunday, October 6, 2013
Stereotypical References To American Indians In "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" Rhymes
Edited by Azizi Powell
This post is a continuation of this earlier post that I published about the performance of stereotypical motions while chanting versions of the contemporary English language playground rhyme "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant":
http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/anti-asian-rhymes-i-went-to-chinese.html.
I wrote an addendum to that post about the inclusion of problematic references to American Indians in some of those playground rhymes. Here's an expanded version of those comments:
In some examples of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" the Chinese and Japanese referents are followed by "Indian chief". My sense is "Indian chief" is a referent to American Indians and not South Asian Indians. It's my position that the phrase "Indian chief" is also problematic since only the leaders of Indians and Africans are referred to as "chiefs". Other ethnic groups have kings, emperors, and leaders. Think about it.
Isn't that dismmissive of those populations to only refer to their leaders as "chiefs"?
While references to American Indians in some examples of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" aren't as glaringly stereotypical
as names such as "Ching Ching Charlie" used as referents for Asian people or the use of "squinty eye" motion to mimic the eye shape that some Asian people have, I still consider referents such as "Indian chief" to be problematic. "Indian chief" has become so familiar to English speaking people as a result of its inclusion in the very old "Tinker Tailor" or "Rich man, poor man, beggerman, thief, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief rhyme, not to mention Hollywood movies & television Westerns, that we don't give that referent much thought. However, I recall when I was a child that when that "Rich man/poor man" rhyme was chanted as a way of predicting who we would marry, "Indian chief" was considered to be just as bad a mate as "poor man" and "beggerman".
Also not as glaring but still problematic in a number of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" rhymes is the use of "Woo" and "How" to represent the way that American Indians talk. Furthermore, in my opinion, allusions to the stoic Indian image (who stands silently without moving with his or her arms crossed) are problematic in that they reflect and reinforce a fake, one dimensional image of American Indians.
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stbasics.htm "The Basic Indian Stereotypes" debunks the use of the referent "Indian chief" to refer to leaders of American Indian populations:
"As James W. Loewen writes in his book Lies Across America, "Indeed, most American Indian 'chiefs' were never chiefs. Europeans projected chiefdom onto Native Americans because they
could not easily conceive of people living in a civil society without permanent formal rank. Also, making a 'chief' of a respected Native (and sometimes any Native who happened to be handy) gave a European leader an opposite with whom to deal—someone who could sell land, for instance....
-snip-
That article also includes comments debunking the Hollywood image of the American Indian war whoop.
*I'm using "American Indian" instead of "Native American", "First Nation", or any other general referent for this population. No disrespect is intended.
****
TEXT EXAMPLES
Examples of ""I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" that include what I consider to be problematic references to American Indians:
Example #1:
I went to a chinise restaurant,
To get a loaf of bread-bread-bread!
They wrapped it up in a five pound note,
and this is what they said-said-said!
My name is...
Hi-low gigalo
Gigalo hi-low
Willy Willy Wonkas
You've gone bonkers
The indian chief said
HOW!
-Anonymous (Darlington, UK), http://www.topix.com/forum/who/johnny-depp/TI2G2O7A8L4CVJ8S6, Aug 25, 2008
****
Example #2:
I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread
The waiter asked my name and this is what I said said said:
My name is Eli Eli
I know karate
Punch in the body Oops! I'm sorry
Don't Tell my Mommy
Chinese
Japanese
Indian Chief!
-Pete (Walpole, MA), http://www.topix.com/forum/who/johnny-depp/TI2G2O7A8L4CVJ8S6, Dec 7, 2008
****
Example #3:
We did "I went to a chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread-bread-bread.
She asked me what my name was and this is what I said-said-said. My...Name.. Is...
Ell-eye, Ell-eye, Chickle-eye,Chickle-eye,
pom-pom beauty, extra cutie
Indian chief stand still"
At the end you cross your arms and the first one to blink/move loses.
-Codi Berry, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wL_3pqqpxA, 2013
-snip-
Click http://www.hcn.org/issues/200/10426/print_view "The myth of the wooden Indian" for comments about the stereotype of the stoic Indian.
****
Example #4:
I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread, they wrapped it up in a five pound note, and this is what they said said said
My name is eli eli
chikali chikali
pom pom pooly
wally wally whiskey
chinese chopsticks
indians chiefs go woo woo woo woo woo
HOW!
-Simmy (Woodford Green, UK),http://www.topix.com/forum/who/johnny-depp/TI2G2O7A8L4CVJ8S6/p2
****
Example #5
So cool how there are so many different versions posted.
Mine is:
I went to Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread.
They asked me what my name was and this is what I said said said:
My name is L-I L-I pickali pickali pom pom beauty walla walla whiskey chinese japanese indiana CHIEF!
And when you said CHIEF! you shouted and crossed your arms over your chest...the first one to move, laugh or blink lost and everyone would just die laughing. So much fun when were little... :]
-JennxRIOT,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wL_3pqqpxA, 2010
****
EDITORIAL COMMENT
I believe that the stereotypical content in playground rhymes should be documented for the folkloric record, and also for the purpose of encouraging people interested in an eradicating stereotypes to the presence of this content.
In spite of children's attachment to the version of a rhyme that they first learned, given the large number of non-stereotypical versions of "I Went To The Chinese Restaurant, I believe that children can be complimented for their creativity but still be redirected to alternative, non-stereotypical examples of that rhyme. It's up to adults to educate the children in their care that the words and/or accompanying actions of these & some other playground rhymes are problematic and hurtful.
The children's rhyme "Eenie Meenie Miney Mo" stands as a strong testimony to the fact that offensive references can be completely excised from playground rhymes, as many adults today who grew up with that rhyme and are surprised to learn that it once included a pejorative reference for Black people.
****
RELATED LINKS
This post is intended as a companion post to these other pancocojams posts that examine the role of race and/or stereotypes in contemporary English language playground rhymes: http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/examples-of-anti-asian-references-in.html "Examples Of Anti-Asian References In Children's Playground Rhymes" and http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/01/racialized-versions-of-i-like-coffee-i.html "Racialized Versions Of "I Like Coffee I Like Tea"
****
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, recreational, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
Thank you for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are weclome.
This post is a continuation of this earlier post that I published about the performance of stereotypical motions while chanting versions of the contemporary English language playground rhyme "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant":
http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/anti-asian-rhymes-i-went-to-chinese.html.
I wrote an addendum to that post about the inclusion of problematic references to American Indians in some of those playground rhymes. Here's an expanded version of those comments:
In some examples of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" the Chinese and Japanese referents are followed by "Indian chief". My sense is "Indian chief" is a referent to American Indians and not South Asian Indians. It's my position that the phrase "Indian chief" is also problematic since only the leaders of Indians and Africans are referred to as "chiefs". Other ethnic groups have kings, emperors, and leaders. Think about it.
Isn't that dismmissive of those populations to only refer to their leaders as "chiefs"?
While references to American Indians in some examples of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" aren't as glaringly stereotypical
as names such as "Ching Ching Charlie" used as referents for Asian people or the use of "squinty eye" motion to mimic the eye shape that some Asian people have, I still consider referents such as "Indian chief" to be problematic. "Indian chief" has become so familiar to English speaking people as a result of its inclusion in the very old "Tinker Tailor" or "Rich man, poor man, beggerman, thief, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief rhyme, not to mention Hollywood movies & television Westerns, that we don't give that referent much thought. However, I recall when I was a child that when that "Rich man/poor man" rhyme was chanted as a way of predicting who we would marry, "Indian chief" was considered to be just as bad a mate as "poor man" and "beggerman".
Also not as glaring but still problematic in a number of "I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" rhymes is the use of "Woo" and "How" to represent the way that American Indians talk. Furthermore, in my opinion, allusions to the stoic Indian image (who stands silently without moving with his or her arms crossed) are problematic in that they reflect and reinforce a fake, one dimensional image of American Indians.
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stbasics.htm "The Basic Indian Stereotypes" debunks the use of the referent "Indian chief" to refer to leaders of American Indian populations:
"As James W. Loewen writes in his book Lies Across America, "Indeed, most American Indian 'chiefs' were never chiefs. Europeans projected chiefdom onto Native Americans because they
could not easily conceive of people living in a civil society without permanent formal rank. Also, making a 'chief' of a respected Native (and sometimes any Native who happened to be handy) gave a European leader an opposite with whom to deal—someone who could sell land, for instance....
-snip-
That article also includes comments debunking the Hollywood image of the American Indian war whoop.
*I'm using "American Indian" instead of "Native American", "First Nation", or any other general referent for this population. No disrespect is intended.
****
TEXT EXAMPLES
Examples of ""I Went To A Chinese Restaurant" that include what I consider to be problematic references to American Indians:
Example #1:
I went to a chinise restaurant,
To get a loaf of bread-bread-bread!
They wrapped it up in a five pound note,
and this is what they said-said-said!
My name is...
Hi-low gigalo
Gigalo hi-low
Willy Willy Wonkas
You've gone bonkers
The indian chief said
HOW!
-Anonymous (Darlington, UK), http://www.topix.com/forum/who/johnny-depp/TI2G2O7A8L4CVJ8S6, Aug 25, 2008
****
Example #2:
I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread
The waiter asked my name and this is what I said said said:
My name is Eli Eli
I know karate
Punch in the body Oops! I'm sorry
Don't Tell my Mommy
Chinese
Japanese
Indian Chief!
-Pete (Walpole, MA), http://www.topix.com/forum/who/johnny-depp/TI2G2O7A8L4CVJ8S6, Dec 7, 2008
****
Example #3:
We did "I went to a chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread-bread-bread.
She asked me what my name was and this is what I said-said-said. My...Name.. Is...
Ell-eye, Ell-eye, Chickle-eye,Chickle-eye,
pom-pom beauty, extra cutie
Indian chief stand still"
At the end you cross your arms and the first one to blink/move loses.
-Codi Berry, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wL_3pqqpxA, 2013
-snip-
Click http://www.hcn.org/issues/200/10426/print_view "The myth of the wooden Indian" for comments about the stereotype of the stoic Indian.
****
Example #4:
I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread, they wrapped it up in a five pound note, and this is what they said said said
My name is eli eli
chikali chikali
pom pom pooly
wally wally whiskey
chinese chopsticks
indians chiefs go woo woo woo woo woo
HOW!
-Simmy (Woodford Green, UK),http://www.topix.com/forum/who/johnny-depp/TI2G2O7A8L4CVJ8S6/p2
****
Example #5
So cool how there are so many different versions posted.
Mine is:
I went to Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread.
They asked me what my name was and this is what I said said said:
My name is L-I L-I pickali pickali pom pom beauty walla walla whiskey chinese japanese indiana CHIEF!
And when you said CHIEF! you shouted and crossed your arms over your chest...the first one to move, laugh or blink lost and everyone would just die laughing. So much fun when were little... :]
-JennxRIOT,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wL_3pqqpxA, 2010
****
EDITORIAL COMMENT
I believe that the stereotypical content in playground rhymes should be documented for the folkloric record, and also for the purpose of encouraging people interested in an eradicating stereotypes to the presence of this content.
In spite of children's attachment to the version of a rhyme that they first learned, given the large number of non-stereotypical versions of "I Went To The Chinese Restaurant, I believe that children can be complimented for their creativity but still be redirected to alternative, non-stereotypical examples of that rhyme. It's up to adults to educate the children in their care that the words and/or accompanying actions of these & some other playground rhymes are problematic and hurtful.
The children's rhyme "Eenie Meenie Miney Mo" stands as a strong testimony to the fact that offensive references can be completely excised from playground rhymes, as many adults today who grew up with that rhyme and are surprised to learn that it once included a pejorative reference for Black people.
****
RELATED LINKS
This post is intended as a companion post to these other pancocojams posts that examine the role of race and/or stereotypes in contemporary English language playground rhymes: http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/examples-of-anti-asian-references-in.html "Examples Of Anti-Asian References In Children's Playground Rhymes" and http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/01/racialized-versions-of-i-like-coffee-i.html "Racialized Versions Of "I Like Coffee I Like Tea"
****
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, recreational, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
Thank you for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are weclome.
Sunday, January 22, 2012
"Chicken In The Car And The Car Can't Go" Rhyme
Edited by Azizi Powell
"Chicken in the car" demonstrates how the words to a rhyme can remain very constant over time and among various populations, however the same rhyme can have different activities associated with it.
I got to thinking about "Chicken in the car" because I happened upon a very brief video* of a Caribbean vocalist/musician Brushy singing a song whose words, tune, and tempo is almost identical to my childhood remembrances of chanting "chicken in the car".
Brushy One String - "Chicken In The Corn" (Official Video)
Brushy OneString, Published on Mar 20, 2013
-snip-
Click http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H-67ILaqc for information about where this tune can be purchased online.
-snip-
*I replaced that brief video clip with the official video that is found above. The following comments are from that brief video clip of this song that was uploaded by rezsbc on Mar 22, 2010
"This clip if [sic] from the 'Rise Up Reggae Star,' check out their channel http://www.youtube.com/user/riseupmovie.
The tune also came out on a Roof International 7" in the early 90's with a dancehall mix on one side and brushy alone with the guitar on the flip! Brushy is the son of the late, great Jamaican legend Freddie McKay"
-snip-
Here's my partial transcription of "Chicken In The Corn"
Chorus
Chicken in the corn, mama eh - hay,
and the corn can't grow.
(Well-a) Chicken in the corn,
so the corn can't grow-o.
-snip-
UPDATE September 1, 2013 hat tip Guto Santana for alerting me to to this link that has the complete lyrics to Bushy's song and also has more information about Bushy: http://blog.riseupmovie.com/2013/04/29/brushy-one-string-chicken-in-the-corn-lyrics.aspx
-snip-
According to his spoken introduction to this song in another video "The King Of One String - Trailer", Brushy said he went to San Fransciso and a friend of his sung him this "old country song".
There are several other YouTube videos of Brushy singing this song, but I can't find its lyrics online. (It should be noted that the song "Chicken And Corn" - whose lyrics & video are available online - is a newly composed song which isn't the same as Brushy's rendition of "Chicken In The Corn".
-snip-
Where did Brushy (or his San Franscico friend) get this "Chicken In The Corn" song from? If it really is an "old country song", is it a precusor to the rhyme "Chicken in the car"?
As I mentioned, I remember chanting the "chicken in the car" lines given at the beginning of this page when I was a child (Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1950s, African American*). That is the full text of the rhyme that I remember. I don't recall it being said with any accompanying activity except swaying back & forth while chanting.
* I'm adding the location, date, and my race for the folkloric record.
I couldn't find any other online references to "Chicken in the corn" and my search for videos other than Brushy's of "Chicken in the car" was unsuccessful. But after a fair bit of sleuthing, I found "Chicken in the car" mentioned on the following websites: (Websites are assigned numbers for referencing sake which have no preferential ranking. These quotes are posted without editorial comment).
Online Source #1
From http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=27532
06-14-2000, 03:51 PM
njk8
"Does anyone know the origen or purpose of the saying, "Chicken in the car and the car can't go," and i believe it also has "and thats how you spell chicago."
**
funneefarmer ; 06-14-2000, 05:50 PM
"It's a tongue twister although I haven't found an origin yet.
From Collection of Tongue Twisters
"Knife and a fork bottle and a cork
that is the way you spell New York.
Chicken in the car and the car can go,
that is the way you spell Chicago. "
**
funneefarmer ; 06-14-2000, 06:43 PM
"Also...
Gordon "Wedge" Wedgewood
Author of the novel "Chicken in the Car and the Car Won't Go, CHICAGO", (Chicago as it was a half century ago)
And...
"Chicken In The Car" is a song done by Ralph Flanagan on the RCA label."
**
Ezstrete ; 06-14-2000, 07:05 PM
"This won't help too much but it was also a rhyme used during jump rope.
My first aweareness of it was about 1926 +/- a year or so.
It was a piece of nonsence like" Chevrolet---y'gotta shove 'er or let her lay"
or
"Bottle and cork spells NewYork"
Kid fun stuff "
**
Ukulele Ike ; 06-15-2000, 01:17 PM
"I first saw it in Carl Withers' collection A ROCKET IN MY POCKET: THE RHYMES AND CHANTS OF YOUNG AMERICANS (1948), a classic children's book that is still in print and which every parent ought to provide for their kids."
****
Online Source #2
Regarding the title of a new travel book on Chicago, Illinois:
http://chitownmoms.net/chicken-in-the-car-and-the-car-wont-go/
“The title stems from an old saying to help folks remember how to spell Chicago.”
****
Online Source #3
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105265/quotes
"Memorable quotes for A River Runs Through It (1992)
Mr. Sweeney: [delivering letter from Chicago, quotes old song] Chicken in the car. Car won't go. That's how you spell Chicago. Ha he he."
****
Online Source #4
Excerpt from
http://www.amazon.com/Knife-Fork-Bottle-Cork-Trilogy/dp/0964484633
"A Knife and a Fork and a Bottle and a Cork: That's How You Spell New York (Riddle Rhyme Trilogy) [Paperback]
Howard Schrager (Author)
Sarah Madsen (Illustrator)
Publisher: Lemontree Pr (July 15, 2010)
From the Author
"A number of years ago, I was watching the movie, Cinema Paradiso, when it cut to the scene of a hen roosting in an abandoned car. Immediately the words of a 1920s street rhyme my father had taught me flashed into my mind, Chicken in the Car, and the Car Can't Go... that's how you spell Chicago. He'd also taught me a companion rhyme that went A Knife and a Fork and a Bottle and a Cork...that's how you spell New York." Within days, I had decided to write a riddle rhyme for each of the 50 states." So says Howard Schrager, a teacher of 30 years standing.
Riddle Rhymes were part of children's culture for hundreds of years, and Schrager doesn't want to see them vanish. "Doing riddle rhymes requires listening, and, moreover, hearing. With games like Jeopardy, you either know the answer or you don't. With Riddle Rhymes you already know the answer, you just don't know which answer it is. You just have to hear the name arise inwardly, and to recognize it. This involves an interesting process of sound sifting, and provides a unique slant on thinking, and on competition."
****
Online Source #5
From
http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=29897
Subject: RE: Help: Illinois/Chicago Songs
From: Trapper
Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:30 PM
My dad went to Chicago when I was a kid for a Chef's convention, and the whole week before he left we were singing:
Chicken in the car
And the car won't go
That's how we spell Chi-ca-go!
-snip-
In summation,
1. I found no mention of the song "Chicken in the corn" except those on Caribbean vocalist/musician Brushy's videos.
2. "Chicken in the car" is described as a tongue twister; a jump rope rhyme; a piece of nonsense; a title of a song (Online Source #1); a title of a novel (Online Source #1); a title of a travel book taken from "an old saying to help folks remember how to spell Chicago" (Online Source #2); a song [chant]?*(Online Sources #3 and #5); a riddle; and a street rhyme (Online Source #4).
* My sense is that people in the United States often refer to rhymes & chants as "songs", and also describe their performance of rhymes & chants as "singing".
My recollection of "Chicken in the car" would also be placed under the "street rhyme" category.
3. The earliest dates that I found online for the "Chicken in the car" rhyme were 1926 +/- a year (Online Source #1) and 1920s (Online Source #4).
Note: The riddle "chicken in the car and the car won't go/that's how you spell Chicago" is also given on a few other websites in association with the verse:
Knife and a fork bottle and a cork
that is the way you spell New York.
-snip-
Although I was born & raised in New Jersey, a state that is considerably closer to New York than Illinois, I have no recollection of that "knife and fork" verse or any other riddle verse sung (chanted) along with "chicken in the car".
****
Update: 2/4/2012
Here's another verse that I found in Harlem Photographs 1932-1940 (Aaron Siskind)
Chicken in the car
Car wouldn't go
Chicken jump out
The car went slow.
-snip-
This was one of the short rhymes included in that ground breaking photography book.
From http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/1999/08/13/25807.html: "This was perhaps the first time a white photographer documented this black community."
****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
Chicken in the car and the car can't go.
That's how you spell Chi-ca-go.
"Chicken in the car" demonstrates how the words to a rhyme can remain very constant over time and among various populations, however the same rhyme can have different activities associated with it.
I got to thinking about "Chicken in the car" because I happened upon a very brief video* of a Caribbean vocalist/musician Brushy singing a song whose words, tune, and tempo is almost identical to my childhood remembrances of chanting "chicken in the car".
Brushy One String - "Chicken In The Corn" (Official Video)
Brushy OneString, Published on Mar 20, 2013
-snip-
Click http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H-67ILaqc for information about where this tune can be purchased online.
-snip-
*I replaced that brief video clip with the official video that is found above. The following comments are from that brief video clip of this song that was uploaded by rezsbc on Mar 22, 2010
"This clip if [sic] from the 'Rise Up Reggae Star,' check out their channel http://www.youtube.com/user/riseupmovie.
The tune also came out on a Roof International 7" in the early 90's with a dancehall mix on one side and brushy alone with the guitar on the flip! Brushy is the son of the late, great Jamaican legend Freddie McKay"
-snip-
Here's my partial transcription of "Chicken In The Corn"
Chorus
Chicken in the corn, mama eh - hay,
and the corn can't grow.
(Well-a) Chicken in the corn,
so the corn can't grow-o.
-snip-
UPDATE September 1, 2013 hat tip Guto Santana for alerting me to to this link that has the complete lyrics to Bushy's song and also has more information about Bushy: http://blog.riseupmovie.com/2013/04/29/brushy-one-string-chicken-in-the-corn-lyrics.aspx
-snip-
According to his spoken introduction to this song in another video "The King Of One String - Trailer", Brushy said he went to San Fransciso and a friend of his sung him this "old country song".
There are several other YouTube videos of Brushy singing this song, but I can't find its lyrics online. (It should be noted that the song "Chicken And Corn" - whose lyrics & video are available online - is a newly composed song which isn't the same as Brushy's rendition of "Chicken In The Corn".
-snip-
Where did Brushy (or his San Franscico friend) get this "Chicken In The Corn" song from? If it really is an "old country song", is it a precusor to the rhyme "Chicken in the car"?
As I mentioned, I remember chanting the "chicken in the car" lines given at the beginning of this page when I was a child (Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1950s, African American*). That is the full text of the rhyme that I remember. I don't recall it being said with any accompanying activity except swaying back & forth while chanting.
* I'm adding the location, date, and my race for the folkloric record.
I couldn't find any other online references to "Chicken in the corn" and my search for videos other than Brushy's of "Chicken in the car" was unsuccessful. But after a fair bit of sleuthing, I found "Chicken in the car" mentioned on the following websites: (Websites are assigned numbers for referencing sake which have no preferential ranking. These quotes are posted without editorial comment).
Online Source #1
From http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=27532
06-14-2000, 03:51 PM
njk8
"Does anyone know the origen or purpose of the saying, "Chicken in the car and the car can't go," and i believe it also has "and thats how you spell chicago."
**
funneefarmer ; 06-14-2000, 05:50 PM
"It's a tongue twister although I haven't found an origin yet.
From Collection of Tongue Twisters
"Knife and a fork bottle and a cork
that is the way you spell New York.
Chicken in the car and the car can go,
that is the way you spell Chicago. "
**
funneefarmer ; 06-14-2000, 06:43 PM
"Also...
Gordon "Wedge" Wedgewood
Author of the novel "Chicken in the Car and the Car Won't Go, CHICAGO", (Chicago as it was a half century ago)
And...
"Chicken In The Car" is a song done by Ralph Flanagan on the RCA label."
**
Ezstrete ; 06-14-2000, 07:05 PM
"This won't help too much but it was also a rhyme used during jump rope.
My first aweareness of it was about 1926 +/- a year or so.
It was a piece of nonsence like" Chevrolet---y'gotta shove 'er or let her lay"
or
"Bottle and cork spells NewYork"
Kid fun stuff "
**
Ukulele Ike ; 06-15-2000, 01:17 PM
"I first saw it in Carl Withers' collection A ROCKET IN MY POCKET: THE RHYMES AND CHANTS OF YOUNG AMERICANS (1948), a classic children's book that is still in print and which every parent ought to provide for their kids."
****
Online Source #2
Regarding the title of a new travel book on Chicago, Illinois:
http://chitownmoms.net/chicken-in-the-car-and-the-car-wont-go/
“The title stems from an old saying to help folks remember how to spell Chicago.”
****
Online Source #3
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105265/quotes
"Memorable quotes for A River Runs Through It (1992)
Mr. Sweeney: [delivering letter from Chicago, quotes old song] Chicken in the car. Car won't go. That's how you spell Chicago. Ha he he."
****
Online Source #4
Excerpt from
http://www.amazon.com/Knife-Fork-Bottle-Cork-Trilogy/dp/0964484633
"A Knife and a Fork and a Bottle and a Cork: That's How You Spell New York (Riddle Rhyme Trilogy) [Paperback]
Howard Schrager (Author)
Sarah Madsen (Illustrator)
Publisher: Lemontree Pr (July 15, 2010)
From the Author
"A number of years ago, I was watching the movie, Cinema Paradiso, when it cut to the scene of a hen roosting in an abandoned car. Immediately the words of a 1920s street rhyme my father had taught me flashed into my mind, Chicken in the Car, and the Car Can't Go... that's how you spell Chicago. He'd also taught me a companion rhyme that went A Knife and a Fork and a Bottle and a Cork...that's how you spell New York." Within days, I had decided to write a riddle rhyme for each of the 50 states." So says Howard Schrager, a teacher of 30 years standing.
Riddle Rhymes were part of children's culture for hundreds of years, and Schrager doesn't want to see them vanish. "Doing riddle rhymes requires listening, and, moreover, hearing. With games like Jeopardy, you either know the answer or you don't. With Riddle Rhymes you already know the answer, you just don't know which answer it is. You just have to hear the name arise inwardly, and to recognize it. This involves an interesting process of sound sifting, and provides a unique slant on thinking, and on competition."
****
Online Source #5
From
http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=29897
Subject: RE: Help: Illinois/Chicago Songs
From: Trapper
Date: 25 Jan 01 - 12:30 PM
My dad went to Chicago when I was a kid for a Chef's convention, and the whole week before he left we were singing:
Chicken in the car
And the car won't go
That's how we spell Chi-ca-go!
-snip-
In summation,
1. I found no mention of the song "Chicken in the corn" except those on Caribbean vocalist/musician Brushy's videos.
2. "Chicken in the car" is described as a tongue twister; a jump rope rhyme; a piece of nonsense; a title of a song (Online Source #1); a title of a novel (Online Source #1); a title of a travel book taken from "an old saying to help folks remember how to spell Chicago" (Online Source #2); a song [chant]?*(Online Sources #3 and #5); a riddle; and a street rhyme (Online Source #4).
* My sense is that people in the United States often refer to rhymes & chants as "songs", and also describe their performance of rhymes & chants as "singing".
My recollection of "Chicken in the car" would also be placed under the "street rhyme" category.
3. The earliest dates that I found online for the "Chicken in the car" rhyme were 1926 +/- a year (Online Source #1) and 1920s (Online Source #4).
Note: The riddle "chicken in the car and the car won't go/that's how you spell Chicago" is also given on a few other websites in association with the verse:
Knife and a fork bottle and a cork
that is the way you spell New York.
-snip-
Although I was born & raised in New Jersey, a state that is considerably closer to New York than Illinois, I have no recollection of that "knife and fork" verse or any other riddle verse sung (chanted) along with "chicken in the car".
****
Update: 2/4/2012
Here's another verse that I found in Harlem Photographs 1932-1940 (Aaron Siskind)
Chicken in the car
Car wouldn't go
Chicken jump out
The car went slow.
-snip-
This was one of the short rhymes included in that ground breaking photography book.
From http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/1999/08/13/25807.html: "This was perhaps the first time a white photographer documented this black community."
****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
Sunday, December 11, 2011
Sources Of The Movie Big's Rap "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop", Part 3
Written by Azizi Powell
This is Part III of a three part of a pancocojams series on playground rhymes sources for the "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" "rap" in the 1988 American movie Big.
Parts 2 & 3 include examples of older playground rhymes that are probable sources for or have some very similar words as the movie Big's rap "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop". Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-big-movie-rap-shimmy-shimmy_11.html for Part 2 of this post.
Part 1 of this post provides my general comments about children's playground rhymes. In that first part of this post, I also provided the words to three examples of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-big-movie-rap-shimmy-shimmy.html for
Sources Of The Movie Big's Rap "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" Part 1.
****
PART 3
METHOD OF POSTING EXAMPLES FROM SELECTED RHYMES
The featured line or phrase is given in capital letters, followed by numbered lines from the three examples of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap found in Part 1. The title of selected examples of "source rhymes" is given in capital letters followed by the code SR ("source rhyme" or "selcted rhyme") and an assigned number. These numbers are used consecutively throughout Parts 2-3 of this post. In each example, the focus line is given in italics to highlight that line.
ICE CREAM, SODA POP, VANILLA ON THE TOP
The lines "ice cream, soda pop, vanilla on top" is given as lines 7 and 8 of Example #1 of that rap. Those lines are also given as lines 11 and 12 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Refer back to SR #8 for a source example of those lines. Here's another source example of those lines:
"Ice Cream Soda"
The line "ice cream, soda pop, vanilla on the top" probably comes from this children's jump rope rhyme:
Source Rhyme #10:
"ICE CREAM" -
iIce cream soda
with the cherry on top
Tell me the name
of your sweetheartt.
A B C D E F G H etc.
Brenda Brenda
Do you love Kenny?
Yes, no, maybe so.
Yes, no, maybe so.
How many children will you have?
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.
Source: Let's Slice The Ice (Eleanor Fulton and Pat Smith; St. Louis, Missouri; Magnamusic-Baton; 1978; p. 29 [This is a collection of African Americans' children rhymes from various states; hereafter given as "Slice The Ice", with the example's page number]
****
OOH, SHELLY'S OUT WALKING DOWN THE STREET; 10 TIMES A WEEK
The lines "ooh Shelly's out walking down the street/10 times a week is given as lines 9 and 1O of Example #1 of that rap.
The very similar lines "Ooh Shelly, walking down the street/ten times a week!" is given as lines 13 and 14 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
I believe that "Ooh Shelly" is a folk etymology form of the phrase "I'll be". That phrase changed to "ah beep beep", in part because of the popularity of the 1968 Latin Boogaloo song "Bang Bang" by the Joe Cuba sextet. That song has the very infectious chanted chorus "beep beep! aaaaaah! beep beep ah!).
The "Ah Beep Beep"/ "I'll Be" rhymes often include the word "ungawa".
-snip-
[Update June 24, 2017]
Although it may be possible that the phrase "Oh Shelly" [or "Oh Shalida" or some similar sounding female name] is a folk processed form of the words "I'll be", it's also possible that those words are a folk processed form of the words "ah beep beep" came from the popularity of Donna Summer's song "Bad Girls". The words "Toot toot, hey, beep beep" and "beep beep uh-huh" are repeated in that hit record which also talked about girls "out on the street."
Girls hearing this song used the positive African American meaning of the word "bad" and ignored the part of those lyrics that said "talking ’bout the sad girls".
While it's probably that the 1968 Latin Boogaloo song "Bang Bang" contributed to the public's familiarity with the phrase "ah beep beep", that record wasn't the direct source for the "ah beep beep "phrase in children's rhymes. "Beep beep' is the sound of men honking their car horns at "bad girls" (i.e. prostitutes) who were "walking the streets", looking for customers. The horn honks were a sign that the men liked how the prostitutes were dressed and/or looked.
However, look at how closely the beginning words of the rhyme in the 1988 movie Big fit the beginning word for this street rhyme that is published in a 1973 book: [also given as Source rhyme #11 below]
[no title given]
I'll be I'll be
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gah-wah, un-gah-wah (baby)
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said it, I meant it,
I really represent it.
Take a cool, cool Black to knock me down.
Take a cool, cool Black to knock me down.
I'm sweet, I'm kind.
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree.
I'm a Castle Square Black.
Don't miss with me.
-John Langstaff and Carol Langstaff, editors Shimmy Shimmy Coke -Ca-Pop!: A Collection Of City Children's Street Games And Rhymes (New York, Doubleday & Company, 1973, p. 57)
-end of update-
"Umgawa" is a word that was coined in 1932 by Cyril Humes, a MGM screenwriter, for the Tarzan movies. In July 2004, Dr Techie, a commenter on http://wordoriginsorg.yuku.com/topic/8045/Umgawa#.VcFKDf3wtv4
wrote "For his books [about the fictitious character Tarzan], (Edgar Rice) Burroughs, created a complete ape language. Hume, who adapted Tarzan, the Ape Man (1932) for the screen, reduced Tarzan's language abilities considerably by inventing the all-purpose command Ungawa, which could mean up, down, halt or go."
-snip-
"Umgawa" was formed by changing one letter of the Kiswahili word "ungawa". The English translation of "ungawa" means "entangled". A similarly spelled word "ugawa" means "grouping". There is no word spelled "umgawa" in Swahili.
For the purposes of the Tarzan movies, the word "umgawa" could mean anything that the writers wanted it to mean. Although the original English spelling of the word in the Tarzan movies was "umgawa", "ungawa" is the spelling that has most often been used in the United States for this word.
Here's my transcription of a video clip that provides information about the Hollywood appropriation of the Swahili word "umgawa":
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRtsJtWVEU
Scott Tracy Griffin [White male], [identified as] Edgar Eice Burrough’s historian:
“The films used a combination of Swahili and made up words. One of my favorites is “Umgawa” which can mean anything we want it to mean. [smiling] It means “stop”, go away, come here, danger, or “Elephant, carry boy to safety.” [laughing]. “Umgawa” is a terrific word and is another one of our cultural touchstones. [.27]
[Another speaker: a White male]- “Originally, it meant “Get down”. But as time progressed, as the movies went on, it seemed to have a multiple layer of meaning. [chuckling]
[scenes from Tarzan movie: Tarzan talking to animals and to Black people in movies]
[same White male speaker] “And it became, you know, “Umgawa!” and everybody just rose to the occasion. [laughing] And they went into action.
[Video clip ends with a scene of Tarzan and Jane talking in a made up language].
-snip-
In the late 1960s & early 1970s, afro-centric African Americans took hold of that word and included it in a rhyme that both celebrated Black power and dared White people to challenge them for that pride. A common verse in those rhymes was "Ungawa!"/"Black power!" or "Ungawa/"We got the power" (with "power" in both examples pronounced like "po-wah").
Here are some examples of what I believe are probable source versions of the "Aah Beep Beep"/"Ungawa" rhymes:
Source Rhyme #11:
[no title given]
I'll be, be,
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gawa, un-gawa, (baby)
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said 1t I meant it.
I really represent it.
Take a cool, cool Black
to knock to knock me down.
Take a cool, cook Black to knock me out.
I'm sweet, I'm kind,
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree,
I'm a Castle Square Black,
Don't mess with me.
Source: Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop! A Collection of City Children's Street Ganes and Rhymes (John Langstaff and Carol Langstaff: Garden City, New York, Doubleday & Company,1973; p. 57)
**
Source Rhyme #12:
"AH BEEP BEEP"
Ah Beep Beep
Walkin down the street
Ugawa. Ugawa
That means Black power.
White boy.
Destroy..
I said it. I meant it
And I'm here to represent it.
Soul sister number 9
Sock it to me one more time.
Uh hun! Uh Hun!
Source: Tracey S.,(African American female}; Harrisburg, Pennsylvania; childhood remembrance,1968); collected by Azizi Powell, 2000
Editor: Comments that the informant shared with me about that rhyme can be found on this Mudcat thread that I started: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=112857#2392802 Number Nine In Songs & Rhymes
****
Source Rhyme #13:
"AH BEEP BEEP"
Ah beep beep, walking down the street
10 times a week
Ungawa, black power, Puerto Rican power
I said it, I meant it and now I represent it"
-Yasmin Hernadez, memories of childhood in a mixed Latina/o and African American neighborhood of New York City, 1980s; http://www.cocojams.com (School yard taunts page)
**
Source Rhyme #11:
"AH BEEP BEEP"
OMG i'm finally remembering it...
ahh beep beep walkin down the street
10 times a week...
ungawa, ungawa this is black power
destroy
white boy
i said it
i meant it
i really represent it
i'm a soul soul sista from a soul soul town
aint too many sista gonna keep me down.
if you don't like my apples
don't shake my tree
cuz i'm a soul soul sista named... Ja-nie
LOL
again i'm not black.
-Guest, janie (Guest, duh) http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6600 Downtown Baby; 2/29/2009
Note: There are two entries from that guest of that rhyme. The first entry was incomplete. Also, there are several other very similar examples of this rhyme (including one with the "n word)" and all of those examples "happen" to be from New York City. This may be an interesting coincidence or it may be the New York City area is where that rhyme originated.
I READ IT! I SAID IT!/ I STOLE MY MOMMA'S CREDIT!
These lines are given in lines 11 and 12 of Example #1 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" rap.
I READ IT! I SAID IT!/ I STOLE MY MOMMA'S CREDIT!
These lines are given in lines 15 and 16 in Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Comment: I believe that both of those verses are folk etymology forms of the African American folk saying "I said it/ I meant it/ (and) I'm here to represent it."
Refer to Source Rhymes #11-#14 for examples of that saying in children's playground rhymes.
****
I'M COOL I'M HOT/SOCK ME IN THE STOMACH THREE MORE TIMES
These lines are given in lines 13 and 14 of Example #1 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" rap and in lines 17 and 18 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Comment:
"I'm cool! I'm hot!" are examples of African American slang that were added to this rap because of their cultural cache. There are a lot of contemporary playground rhymes that refer to punching someone in the body. The line "sock it to me one more time" as found in the movie Big's rap, refers to punching someone. However, that's not the original meaning of the African American slang phrase "sock it to me".
"Hit me with it one more time" and "give it to me one more time" are sayings that had the same African American vernacular meaning as "sock it to me". None of those lines had nothing whatsoever to do with physically hitting someone. I associate "sock it to me" with Aretha Franklin's late 1960s hit song "Respect". In one part of that song she repeatedly sings "sock it to me". In that song "sock it to me" means "give it to me". I can leave it to your imagination as to what "it" is.
I also associate that saying most with superstar R&B singer James Brown's instruction to his drummer to "Hit me with it one time (and the drummer would play one beat). Then James Brown would say "Hit me with it two times" and the drummer would play two beats etc.
Here are two examples of playground rhymes that include the line "sock it to me". The first example also includes the line "I'm cool and calm" which is very similar to the "I'm cool. I'm hot" line in the movie Big's rap.
Source Rhyme #15:
"AHH BEEP BEEP"
Ahh, Beep Beep!
Walking down the street
Ten times a week
Ungawa!
Black Power!
Destroy!
White Boy!
I said it, I meant it
I'm here to represent it
I'm cool, I'm calm
I'm Soul Sister Number Nine
Sock it to me one more time!
Uh-Uh! Good God!
(from Brooklyn, New York in the early 70's...the Brownsville version:
**
Source Rhyme #16
"SOUL SISTER NUMBER 9"
Soul sister number 9
sock it to me one more time
said, un ungawa we got the power*
said un ungawa we got the power
Little Sally Walker’s walking down the street
She didn’t know what to do
so she jumped in front of me
She said, “Go on girl do your thing
Do your thing do your thing
Go on girl do your thing
Do your thing do your thing. Stop!
-The School Of Rock transcript embedded in video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvGia9u1McM 2003 American movie[This video is reposted below]
****
VIDEO
Soul Sister Number Nine (?)
Uploaded by rachelarmstrong on Jan 24, 2008
****
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This is Part III of a three part of a pancocojams series on playground rhymes sources for the "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" "rap" in the 1988 American movie Big.
Parts 2 & 3 include examples of older playground rhymes that are probable sources for or have some very similar words as the movie Big's rap "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop". Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-big-movie-rap-shimmy-shimmy_11.html for Part 2 of this post.
Part 1 of this post provides my general comments about children's playground rhymes. In that first part of this post, I also provided the words to three examples of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-big-movie-rap-shimmy-shimmy.html for
Sources Of The Movie Big's Rap "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" Part 1.
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PART 3
METHOD OF POSTING EXAMPLES FROM SELECTED RHYMES
The featured line or phrase is given in capital letters, followed by numbered lines from the three examples of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap found in Part 1. The title of selected examples of "source rhymes" is given in capital letters followed by the code SR ("source rhyme" or "selcted rhyme") and an assigned number. These numbers are used consecutively throughout Parts 2-3 of this post. In each example, the focus line is given in italics to highlight that line.
ICE CREAM, SODA POP, VANILLA ON THE TOP
The lines "ice cream, soda pop, vanilla on top" is given as lines 7 and 8 of Example #1 of that rap. Those lines are also given as lines 11 and 12 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Refer back to SR #8 for a source example of those lines. Here's another source example of those lines:
"Ice Cream Soda"
The line "ice cream, soda pop, vanilla on the top" probably comes from this children's jump rope rhyme:
Source Rhyme #10:
"ICE CREAM" -
iIce cream soda
with the cherry on top
Tell me the name
of your sweetheartt.
A B C D E F G H etc.
Brenda Brenda
Do you love Kenny?
Yes, no, maybe so.
Yes, no, maybe so.
How many children will you have?
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.
Source: Let's Slice The Ice (Eleanor Fulton and Pat Smith; St. Louis, Missouri; Magnamusic-Baton; 1978; p. 29 [This is a collection of African Americans' children rhymes from various states; hereafter given as "Slice The Ice", with the example's page number]
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OOH, SHELLY'S OUT WALKING DOWN THE STREET; 10 TIMES A WEEK
The lines "ooh Shelly's out walking down the street/10 times a week is given as lines 9 and 1O of Example #1 of that rap.
The very similar lines "Ooh Shelly, walking down the street/ten times a week!" is given as lines 13 and 14 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
I believe that "Ooh Shelly" is a folk etymology form of the phrase "I'll be". That phrase changed to "ah beep beep", in part because of the popularity of the 1968 Latin Boogaloo song "Bang Bang" by the Joe Cuba sextet. That song has the very infectious chanted chorus "beep beep! aaaaaah! beep beep ah!).
The "Ah Beep Beep"/ "I'll Be" rhymes often include the word "ungawa".
-snip-
[Update June 24, 2017]
Although it may be possible that the phrase "Oh Shelly" [or "Oh Shalida" or some similar sounding female name] is a folk processed form of the words "I'll be", it's also possible that those words are a folk processed form of the words "ah beep beep" came from the popularity of Donna Summer's song "Bad Girls". The words "Toot toot, hey, beep beep" and "beep beep uh-huh" are repeated in that hit record which also talked about girls "out on the street."
Girls hearing this song used the positive African American meaning of the word "bad" and ignored the part of those lyrics that said "talking ’bout the sad girls".
While it's probably that the 1968 Latin Boogaloo song "Bang Bang" contributed to the public's familiarity with the phrase "ah beep beep", that record wasn't the direct source for the "ah beep beep "phrase in children's rhymes. "Beep beep' is the sound of men honking their car horns at "bad girls" (i.e. prostitutes) who were "walking the streets", looking for customers. The horn honks were a sign that the men liked how the prostitutes were dressed and/or looked.
However, look at how closely the beginning words of the rhyme in the 1988 movie Big fit the beginning word for this street rhyme that is published in a 1973 book: [also given as Source rhyme #11 below]
[no title given]
I'll be I'll be
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gah-wah, un-gah-wah (baby)
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said it, I meant it,
I really represent it.
Take a cool, cool Black to knock me down.
Take a cool, cool Black to knock me down.
I'm sweet, I'm kind.
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree.
I'm a Castle Square Black.
Don't miss with me.
-John Langstaff and Carol Langstaff, editors Shimmy Shimmy Coke -Ca-Pop!: A Collection Of City Children's Street Games And Rhymes (New York, Doubleday & Company, 1973, p. 57)
-end of update-
"Umgawa" is a word that was coined in 1932 by Cyril Humes, a MGM screenwriter, for the Tarzan movies. In July 2004, Dr Techie, a commenter on http://wordoriginsorg.yuku.com/topic/8045/Umgawa#.VcFKDf3wtv4
wrote "For his books [about the fictitious character Tarzan], (Edgar Rice) Burroughs, created a complete ape language. Hume, who adapted Tarzan, the Ape Man (1932) for the screen, reduced Tarzan's language abilities considerably by inventing the all-purpose command Ungawa, which could mean up, down, halt or go."
-snip-
"Umgawa" was formed by changing one letter of the Kiswahili word "ungawa". The English translation of "ungawa" means "entangled". A similarly spelled word "ugawa" means "grouping". There is no word spelled "umgawa" in Swahili.
For the purposes of the Tarzan movies, the word "umgawa" could mean anything that the writers wanted it to mean. Although the original English spelling of the word in the Tarzan movies was "umgawa", "ungawa" is the spelling that has most often been used in the United States for this word.
Here's my transcription of a video clip that provides information about the Hollywood appropriation of the Swahili word "umgawa":
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRtsJtWVEU
Scott Tracy Griffin [White male], [identified as] Edgar Eice Burrough’s historian:
“The films used a combination of Swahili and made up words. One of my favorites is “Umgawa” which can mean anything we want it to mean. [smiling] It means “stop”, go away, come here, danger, or “Elephant, carry boy to safety.” [laughing]. “Umgawa” is a terrific word and is another one of our cultural touchstones. [.27]
[Another speaker: a White male]- “Originally, it meant “Get down”. But as time progressed, as the movies went on, it seemed to have a multiple layer of meaning. [chuckling]
[scenes from Tarzan movie: Tarzan talking to animals and to Black people in movies]
[same White male speaker] “And it became, you know, “Umgawa!” and everybody just rose to the occasion. [laughing] And they went into action.
[Video clip ends with a scene of Tarzan and Jane talking in a made up language].
-snip-
In the late 1960s & early 1970s, afro-centric African Americans took hold of that word and included it in a rhyme that both celebrated Black power and dared White people to challenge them for that pride. A common verse in those rhymes was "Ungawa!"/"Black power!" or "Ungawa/"We got the power" (with "power" in both examples pronounced like "po-wah").
Here are some examples of what I believe are probable source versions of the "Aah Beep Beep"/"Ungawa" rhymes:
Source Rhyme #11:
[no title given]
I'll be, be,
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gawa, un-gawa, (baby)
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said 1t I meant it.
I really represent it.
Take a cool, cool Black
to knock to knock me down.
Take a cool, cook Black to knock me out.
I'm sweet, I'm kind,
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree,
I'm a Castle Square Black,
Don't mess with me.
Source: Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop! A Collection of City Children's Street Ganes and Rhymes (John Langstaff and Carol Langstaff: Garden City, New York, Doubleday & Company,1973; p. 57)
**
Source Rhyme #12:
"AH BEEP BEEP"
Ah Beep Beep
Walkin down the street
Ugawa. Ugawa
That means Black power.
White boy.
Destroy..
I said it. I meant it
And I'm here to represent it.
Soul sister number 9
Sock it to me one more time.
Uh hun! Uh Hun!
Source: Tracey S.,(African American female}; Harrisburg, Pennsylvania; childhood remembrance,1968); collected by Azizi Powell, 2000
Editor: Comments that the informant shared with me about that rhyme can be found on this Mudcat thread that I started: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=112857#2392802 Number Nine In Songs & Rhymes
****
Source Rhyme #13:
"AH BEEP BEEP"
Ah beep beep, walking down the street
10 times a week
Ungawa, black power, Puerto Rican power
I said it, I meant it and now I represent it"
-Yasmin Hernadez, memories of childhood in a mixed Latina/o and African American neighborhood of New York City, 1980s; http://www.cocojams.com (School yard taunts page)
**
Source Rhyme #11:
"AH BEEP BEEP"
OMG i'm finally remembering it...
ahh beep beep walkin down the street
10 times a week...
ungawa, ungawa this is black power
destroy
white boy
i said it
i meant it
i really represent it
i'm a soul soul sista from a soul soul town
aint too many sista gonna keep me down.
if you don't like my apples
don't shake my tree
cuz i'm a soul soul sista named... Ja-nie
LOL
again i'm not black.
-Guest, janie (Guest, duh) http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6600 Downtown Baby; 2/29/2009
Note: There are two entries from that guest of that rhyme. The first entry was incomplete. Also, there are several other very similar examples of this rhyme (including one with the "n word)" and all of those examples "happen" to be from New York City. This may be an interesting coincidence or it may be the New York City area is where that rhyme originated.
I READ IT! I SAID IT!/ I STOLE MY MOMMA'S CREDIT!
These lines are given in lines 11 and 12 of Example #1 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" rap.
I READ IT! I SAID IT!/ I STOLE MY MOMMA'S CREDIT!
These lines are given in lines 15 and 16 in Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Comment: I believe that both of those verses are folk etymology forms of the African American folk saying "I said it/ I meant it/ (and) I'm here to represent it."
Refer to Source Rhymes #11-#14 for examples of that saying in children's playground rhymes.
****
I'M COOL I'M HOT/SOCK ME IN THE STOMACH THREE MORE TIMES
These lines are given in lines 13 and 14 of Example #1 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" rap and in lines 17 and 18 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Comment:
"I'm cool! I'm hot!" are examples of African American slang that were added to this rap because of their cultural cache. There are a lot of contemporary playground rhymes that refer to punching someone in the body. The line "sock it to me one more time" as found in the movie Big's rap, refers to punching someone. However, that's not the original meaning of the African American slang phrase "sock it to me".
"Hit me with it one more time" and "give it to me one more time" are sayings that had the same African American vernacular meaning as "sock it to me". None of those lines had nothing whatsoever to do with physically hitting someone. I associate "sock it to me" with Aretha Franklin's late 1960s hit song "Respect". In one part of that song she repeatedly sings "sock it to me". In that song "sock it to me" means "give it to me". I can leave it to your imagination as to what "it" is.
I also associate that saying most with superstar R&B singer James Brown's instruction to his drummer to "Hit me with it one time (and the drummer would play one beat). Then James Brown would say "Hit me with it two times" and the drummer would play two beats etc.
Here are two examples of playground rhymes that include the line "sock it to me". The first example also includes the line "I'm cool and calm" which is very similar to the "I'm cool. I'm hot" line in the movie Big's rap.
Source Rhyme #15:
"AHH BEEP BEEP"
Ahh, Beep Beep!
Walking down the street
Ten times a week
Ungawa!
Black Power!
Destroy!
White Boy!
I said it, I meant it
I'm here to represent it
I'm cool, I'm calm
I'm Soul Sister Number Nine
Sock it to me one more time!
Uh-Uh! Good God!
(from Brooklyn, New York in the early 70's...the Brownsville version:
**
Source Rhyme #16
"SOUL SISTER NUMBER 9"
Soul sister number 9
sock it to me one more time
said, un ungawa we got the power*
said un ungawa we got the power
Little Sally Walker’s walking down the street
She didn’t know what to do
so she jumped in front of me
She said, “Go on girl do your thing
Do your thing do your thing
Go on girl do your thing
Do your thing do your thing. Stop!
-The School Of Rock transcript embedded in video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvGia9u1McM 2003 American movie[This video is reposted below]
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VIDEO
Soul Sister Number Nine (?)
Uploaded by rachelarmstrong on Jan 24, 2008
****
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Sources Of The Movie Big's Rap "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop", Part II
Written by Azizi Powell
This is Part II of a three part of a pancocojams series on playground rhymes sources for the "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" "rap" in the 1988 American movie Big.
Part I of this post provides my general comments about children's playground rhymes. In that first part of this post, I also provided the words to three examples of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-movie-bigs-rap-shimmy-shimmy_11.html for Part 2 of this series.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-movie-bigs-rap-shimmy-shimmy.html for Part 3 of this series.
Parts 2 & 3 include examples of older playground rhymes that are probable sources for movie Big's rap "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop".
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POSTING EXAMPLES FROM SELECTED RHYMES
The featured line or phrase is given in capital letters. Underneath that title, information is given as to where that line or phrase is from with regard to the three recitations that Tom Hanks did of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap. Those three examples I'm referring to in this post are two times in the 1988 movie itself, and one time in 2009 during a BBC television show interview. Each of those examples are given in full in Part 1 of this series.
The title of the selected example of the "source rhyme" is given in capital letters followed by the code SR ("source rhyme" or "selected rhyme") and an assigned number. These numbers are used consecutively throughout Parts 2-3 of this post. In each example, the focus line is given in italics to highlight that line.
With those introductory comments, here is Part II of this series:
PART II
SOME COMMENTS & EXAMPLES OF "THE SPADES GO" AND "THE SPACE GO".
"The spades go" is given as line 1 in Example #2 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
"The space goes" is given as line 1 in Example #3 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
I believe that the phrase "the spades go" predates the phrase "the space goes". I also believe that "the space goes" probably first came about as a result of mishearing or misremembering the phrase "the spades go". That misheard or misremembered phrase then was transmitted as the "real" words of that rhyme.
It's my position that "the spade goes" originally meant the same exact thing as "The Black [people] go". That phrase was said to give the mark of authenticity to the words that followed, since Black people - and in this sense Black girls- were seen of the arbiters of "the real way" that handclap rhymes were supposed to be said and performed. For this reason, persons who are interested in the origin of playground rhymes can look at examples of rhymes that begin with "the spades go" or "the space goes", or -much less frequently- "the Blacks go", as an indication that the people reciting those rhymes believed that the words came from Black people - or that Black people (that is to say, Black females) were the role models for the way those rhymes were "supposed to be" performed.
I wrote a rather lengthy reply to a question that was posed to me on another forum about my rather tepid reaction as an African American to the inclusion of the phrase "the spades go" in a British playground rhyme. In summary, I indicated that whereas I have a strongly felt visceral reaction to the pejorative word which is now known as "the n word" regardless of who uses it, I don't have that same hit in the gut reaction to "the spades go". I believe that there are three main reasons for that:
1. Even though I believe that the phrase "the spades" is a referent for "Black people", it's not a referent that is used that often in the United States (at least, in my experiences).
2. Because it's children who are reciting rhymes that include the phrase "the spades go", I give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't know the pejorative meaning of "the spades". That pejorative meaning is sometimes alluded to in the colloquial expression "call a spade a spade". The racial meaning of that expression came about because in a deck of playing cards, the spade category of cards is the color black.
3. In the context of children's playground rhymes, the phrase "the spades" has no literal meaning nowadays, but merely serves as an introduction to the rhyme itself.
To read my full comment in that discussion about the phrase "the spades", on that folk music forum, visit http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=81350#1922124.
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SELECTED OTHER PLAYGROUND RHYMES EXAMPLES OF OF "THE SPADES GO"
Source Rhyme #1
"INY MINY POPSA KINEY"
The spades the spades the spades go iny miny popsa kiney i love bomaragn a hop a scoth a liver roch a peach a plum i have a stick of chewing gum and if u want the other half this is wut you say: amen amen amendiego sandieago bostn bruins rah rah rah boo boo boo criss cross apple sauce do me a favor get lost while ur at it drop dead either that or lose ur head bang on trash cans bang on tin cans i can u can nobody else can sitting on the bench nuthing to do along comes some one..cohey coochey coo! andu tickle the other person
Source: Sally on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 08:07 pm:
http://www.streetplay.com/discus/
[Note that I'm using the phrase after the introductory words "the spades go" as the title for this rhyme. Also, as an aside, note that this rhyme is written in essay form with little punctuation. For various reasons which are beyond this post, this is an increasingly common online way of writing children's playground rhymes.]
**
Source Rhyme #2:
"TWO LIPS"
I remember parts of this song:
The spades go two lips together
tie them together
bring back my love to me.
What is the me-ee-eening
of all these flow-er-er-ers
they tel the sto-or-or-y,
the story of love,
from me to you.
I saw the ship sail away,
it sailed three years and a day,
my love is far far away,
and I love him so, oh yes I do.
My heart goes bump ba de dump bump,
bump ba de dump bump,
over my love for you.
You are my one and only,
I love you passionately,
Source: Guest, susan; http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=81350 I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes [hereafter given as Mudcat: CR]
Note: The rhyme "Two Lips" will be the subject of an upcoming pancocojams post.
**
"the space goes"
Source Rhyme #3:
"BRING BACK MY LOVE"
The space goes true love together
twilight forever
Bring back my love to me
What is the matter?
When we get married
And have some children
We’ll name them
Sandra and Jane
and Billy and Tom
And Betty and Jimmy now,
Source: Let's Slice The Ice (Eleanor Fulton and Pat Smith; St. Louis, Missouri; Magnamusic-Baton; 1978; p. 30 [This is a collection of African Americans' children rhymes from various states; hereafter given as "Slice The Ice", with the example's page number]
**
Source Rhyme #4:
"APPLES ON A STICK"
The space goes
apple on a stick just makes me sick make my tummy go 2 4 6
not because im hungry
not because im clean
just because i kiss a boy behind the magazine
hey girls lets have some fun
here comes (name) with his pant undone
he can wiggle he can wobble he can do the twist
but most of all he cant do this close your eyes and count ten if you messs up start ova again
1, 2, 3, 4, ...
Source ; Cece; Whee Blog (website no longer viable); 10/9/2005
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Source Rhyme #5:
"CINDERELLA DRESSED IN YELLA"
Cinderella dressed in yella went up stairs to kiss her fella. She stepped on a crack and broke her back. Tried to stand and cut her hand. How many stitches did it take? The space goes boom boom skitty wat and tat and ah ah ah ah boom boom boom skitty witty wa wa, bubishka wa wa bubishka wa wa pow bang boom. I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread. She put it in a half brown bag and this is what she said said said, my name is ki yi yippee yi, yippe yi ki yi humble berry, chocolate cherry, walla walla Washington, chop chop chow
- a href="http://www.inthe80s.com/rhymes.shtml assessed 8/13/2009
**
Here's an example of a handclap rhyme with the introductory phrase "the Blacks go":
Source Rhyme #6
"SHIMMY SHIMMY COKE CA POP"
The Blacks go down down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet sweet baby
I don't wanna let you go
Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy
shimmy shimmy-pop!
Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy
shimmy shimmy coke-ca-pop!
[Source: Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!, A Collection of City Children's Street Games & Rhymes (John Langstaff, Carol Langstaff: Garden City, New York, Double Day & Co; 1973; p. 78)
****
SHIMMY SHIMMY ROCK ; SHIMMY SHIMMY COCOA POP
The lines "shimmy shimmy rock" is probably a folk etymology form of "shimmy shimmy cocoa pop". "Shimmy shimmy rock" is given as line 2 & line 4 of Example #1 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap, Those words are given as lines 6 and 8 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
The line "shimmy shimmy cocoa pop" is given as lines 1 and 3 of Example #1 of that rap. Those words are also given as lines 5 and 7 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Refer back to SR #6 for a source example of those lines.
****
DOWN DOWN THE ROLLER COASTER
The line "down down the roller coaster" is given as line 2 in Example #2 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
See SR #6 for a source example.
****
SWEET SWEET BABY SWEET SWEET DON'T LET ME GO
The lines "Sweet, sweet baby,/ sweet, sweet, don't let me go" are given as lines 3 and 4 of Example #3 of that rap.
Example #1 does not include these lines. "Sweet, sweet baby!/Sweet, sweet delectable!" is given as lines 3 and 4 of Example #2. I believe that "Sweet, sweet delectable" is a folk etymology form of "sweet, sweet, don't let me go".
Refer to SR #6 for a very similar source example of "sweet sweet sweet don't let me go".
Comment: The lines "sweet sweet baby/I'll never let you go" (or similar versions of those lines) are a core verse of "Down Down Baby" handclap rhymes. Here's a very widely known version of that rhyme:
Source Rhyme #7:
"DOWN DOWN BABY"
Down, down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet baby
I'll never let you go.
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Grandma, Grandma sick in bed.
Called the doctor and the doctor said,
Let's get the rhythm of the head.
Ding dong.
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
Clap, clap.
Let's get the rhythm of the feet
Stomp, stomp.
Let's get the rhythm of the
Hot dog.
Put it all together and what do you get?
Ding-dong, clap, clap. Stomp, stomp. Hot dog.
Say it all backwards and what do you get?
Hot dog. Stomp, stomp. Clap, clap. Ding dong!
-multiple printed source; including Mudcat: CR
Editor: A video of this rhyme is included below.
I MET A GIRLFRIEND A TRISCUIT/ SHE SAID A TRISCUIT A BISCUIT
The lines "I met a girlfriend a triscuit!/ She said a triscuit a biscuit!" are given in lines 5 & 6 of Example #1 and lines 9 & 10 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Here are two selected source examples of those lines:
Source Rhyme #8:
"DOEMENIQUE DOEMENIQUE"
Doeminique Doeminique a biscuit*
Ooh cheechee wah wah
A biscuit.
How do you like your lover
Ah biscuit.
He's so fine.
Oh a biscuit.
Just like cherry wine.
Oh a biscuit.
How do you know it isn't so.
Ice cream (ice cream)
Soda pop (soda pop)
Ginger-ale (ginger-ale)
Seven up (seven up)
Now it's time to do your thing,
Now freeze.
-"Slice The Ice", p. 32
*Also, see other similar phrases in this example.
**
Source Rhyme #9:
"DOWN DOWN BABY"
Down Down Baby, down by the roller coaster
Sweet Sweet Baby, my heart's in love
Ooh, che-chihuahua
Biscuit*
I solemnly love her
Biscuit
She is so sweet
Biscuit
Like a cherry treat
Biscuit
Touche Turtle, pull down your girdle
Biscuit
Ruth Archer; http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653 Down Down Baby-Race in Kid's Rhymes (Clapping rhyme, Atlantic City NJ, late 70's); posted on 4/10/2007
Editor: "Ruth Archer" is a White woman I "met" online who happens to be from my hometown (I've never met her in person).
*Also, see other similar phrases in this example.
**
Source Rhyme #10:
"RONALD MCDONALD HAD A BISCUIT"
Ronald McDonald had a biscuit *
Oooh, chee chee wah wah a biscuit
I had a boyfriend a biscuit
he was so fine a biscuit
like a cherry pie a biscuit
now watch me, now watch me, now watch me do my thing
I said a popcorn cherry pie
bang bang choo choo train
chally wally shake my body
tutti frutti shake my booty
uh i'm goin down uh into the ground
uh i'm comin up uh like hot stuff uh
she push me down uh into the ground
uh i'm comin up uh to kick your but
i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i thought you did karate!
-Tierney; http://www.cocojams.com (Handclap Rhymes page); 2/36/2009
*Also, see other similar phrases in this example.
-snip-
Part 3 of this post provides additional examples of probable playground rhyme sources for the remaining lines of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" rap.
****
VIDEO
Sesame Street: Handclapping Chants
Uploaded by SesameStreet on Mar 27, 2009
[Viewer comment- "this was 1986!]
This is Part II of a three part of a pancocojams series on playground rhymes sources for the "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" "rap" in the 1988 American movie Big.
Part I of this post provides my general comments about children's playground rhymes. In that first part of this post, I also provided the words to three examples of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-movie-bigs-rap-shimmy-shimmy_11.html for Part 2 of this series.
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/sources-of-movie-bigs-rap-shimmy-shimmy.html for Part 3 of this series.
Parts 2 & 3 include examples of older playground rhymes that are probable sources for movie Big's rap "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop".
****
POSTING EXAMPLES FROM SELECTED RHYMES
The featured line or phrase is given in capital letters. Underneath that title, information is given as to where that line or phrase is from with regard to the three recitations that Tom Hanks did of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap. Those three examples I'm referring to in this post are two times in the 1988 movie itself, and one time in 2009 during a BBC television show interview. Each of those examples are given in full in Part 1 of this series.
The title of the selected example of the "source rhyme" is given in capital letters followed by the code SR ("source rhyme" or "selected rhyme") and an assigned number. These numbers are used consecutively throughout Parts 2-3 of this post. In each example, the focus line is given in italics to highlight that line.
With those introductory comments, here is Part II of this series:
PART II
SOME COMMENTS & EXAMPLES OF "THE SPADES GO" AND "THE SPACE GO".
"The spades go" is given as line 1 in Example #2 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
"The space goes" is given as line 1 in Example #3 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
I believe that the phrase "the spades go" predates the phrase "the space goes". I also believe that "the space goes" probably first came about as a result of mishearing or misremembering the phrase "the spades go". That misheard or misremembered phrase then was transmitted as the "real" words of that rhyme.
It's my position that "the spade goes" originally meant the same exact thing as "The Black [people] go". That phrase was said to give the mark of authenticity to the words that followed, since Black people - and in this sense Black girls- were seen of the arbiters of "the real way" that handclap rhymes were supposed to be said and performed. For this reason, persons who are interested in the origin of playground rhymes can look at examples of rhymes that begin with "the spades go" or "the space goes", or -much less frequently- "the Blacks go", as an indication that the people reciting those rhymes believed that the words came from Black people - or that Black people (that is to say, Black females) were the role models for the way those rhymes were "supposed to be" performed.
I wrote a rather lengthy reply to a question that was posed to me on another forum about my rather tepid reaction as an African American to the inclusion of the phrase "the spades go" in a British playground rhyme. In summary, I indicated that whereas I have a strongly felt visceral reaction to the pejorative word which is now known as "the n word" regardless of who uses it, I don't have that same hit in the gut reaction to "the spades go". I believe that there are three main reasons for that:
1. Even though I believe that the phrase "the spades" is a referent for "Black people", it's not a referent that is used that often in the United States (at least, in my experiences).
2. Because it's children who are reciting rhymes that include the phrase "the spades go", I give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't know the pejorative meaning of "the spades". That pejorative meaning is sometimes alluded to in the colloquial expression "call a spade a spade". The racial meaning of that expression came about because in a deck of playing cards, the spade category of cards is the color black.
3. In the context of children's playground rhymes, the phrase "the spades" has no literal meaning nowadays, but merely serves as an introduction to the rhyme itself.
To read my full comment in that discussion about the phrase "the spades", on that folk music forum, visit http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=81350#1922124.
****
SELECTED OTHER PLAYGROUND RHYMES EXAMPLES OF OF "THE SPADES GO"
Source Rhyme #1
"INY MINY POPSA KINEY"
The spades the spades the spades go iny miny popsa kiney i love bomaragn a hop a scoth a liver roch a peach a plum i have a stick of chewing gum and if u want the other half this is wut you say: amen amen amendiego sandieago bostn bruins rah rah rah boo boo boo criss cross apple sauce do me a favor get lost while ur at it drop dead either that or lose ur head bang on trash cans bang on tin cans i can u can nobody else can sitting on the bench nuthing to do along comes some one..cohey coochey coo! andu tickle the other person
Source: Sally on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 08:07 pm:
http://www.streetplay.com/discus/
[Note that I'm using the phrase after the introductory words "the spades go" as the title for this rhyme. Also, as an aside, note that this rhyme is written in essay form with little punctuation. For various reasons which are beyond this post, this is an increasingly common online way of writing children's playground rhymes.]
**
Source Rhyme #2:
"TWO LIPS"
I remember parts of this song:
The spades go two lips together
tie them together
bring back my love to me.
What is the me-ee-eening
of all these flow-er-er-ers
they tel the sto-or-or-y,
the story of love,
from me to you.
I saw the ship sail away,
it sailed three years and a day,
my love is far far away,
and I love him so, oh yes I do.
My heart goes bump ba de dump bump,
bump ba de dump bump,
over my love for you.
You are my one and only,
I love you passionately,
Source: Guest, susan; http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=81350 I'm Rubber . You're Glue: Children's Rhymes [hereafter given as Mudcat: CR]
Note: The rhyme "Two Lips" will be the subject of an upcoming pancocojams post.
**
"the space goes"
Source Rhyme #3:
"BRING BACK MY LOVE"
The space goes true love together
twilight forever
Bring back my love to me
What is the matter?
When we get married
And have some children
We’ll name them
Sandra and Jane
and Billy and Tom
And Betty and Jimmy now,
Source: Let's Slice The Ice (Eleanor Fulton and Pat Smith; St. Louis, Missouri; Magnamusic-Baton; 1978; p. 30 [This is a collection of African Americans' children rhymes from various states; hereafter given as "Slice The Ice", with the example's page number]
**
Source Rhyme #4:
"APPLES ON A STICK"
The space goes
apple on a stick just makes me sick make my tummy go 2 4 6
not because im hungry
not because im clean
just because i kiss a boy behind the magazine
hey girls lets have some fun
here comes (name) with his pant undone
he can wiggle he can wobble he can do the twist
but most of all he cant do this close your eyes and count ten if you messs up start ova again
1, 2, 3, 4, ...
Source ; Cece; Whee Blog (website no longer viable); 10/9/2005
****
Source Rhyme #5:
"CINDERELLA DRESSED IN YELLA"
Cinderella dressed in yella went up stairs to kiss her fella. She stepped on a crack and broke her back. Tried to stand and cut her hand. How many stitches did it take? The space goes boom boom skitty wat and tat and ah ah ah ah boom boom boom skitty witty wa wa, bubishka wa wa bubishka wa wa pow bang boom. I went to a Chinese restaurant to buy a loaf of bread bread bread. She put it in a half brown bag and this is what she said said said, my name is ki yi yippee yi, yippe yi ki yi humble berry, chocolate cherry, walla walla Washington, chop chop chow
- a href="http://www.inthe80s.com/rhymes.shtml assessed 8/13/2009
**
Here's an example of a handclap rhyme with the introductory phrase "the Blacks go":
Source Rhyme #6
"SHIMMY SHIMMY COKE CA POP"
The Blacks go down down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet sweet baby
I don't wanna let you go
Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy
shimmy shimmy-pop!
Shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy
shimmy shimmy coke-ca-pop!
[Source: Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!, A Collection of City Children's Street Games & Rhymes (John Langstaff, Carol Langstaff: Garden City, New York, Double Day & Co; 1973; p. 78)
****
SHIMMY SHIMMY ROCK ; SHIMMY SHIMMY COCOA POP
The lines "shimmy shimmy rock" is probably a folk etymology form of "shimmy shimmy cocoa pop". "Shimmy shimmy rock" is given as line 2 & line 4 of Example #1 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap, Those words are given as lines 6 and 8 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
The line "shimmy shimmy cocoa pop" is given as lines 1 and 3 of Example #1 of that rap. Those words are also given as lines 5 and 7 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Refer back to SR #6 for a source example of those lines.
****
DOWN DOWN THE ROLLER COASTER
The line "down down the roller coaster" is given as line 2 in Example #2 of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pop" rap.
See SR #6 for a source example.
****
SWEET SWEET BABY SWEET SWEET DON'T LET ME GO
The lines "Sweet, sweet baby,/ sweet, sweet, don't let me go" are given as lines 3 and 4 of Example #3 of that rap.
Example #1 does not include these lines. "Sweet, sweet baby!/Sweet, sweet delectable!" is given as lines 3 and 4 of Example #2. I believe that "Sweet, sweet delectable" is a folk etymology form of "sweet, sweet, don't let me go".
Refer to SR #6 for a very similar source example of "sweet sweet sweet don't let me go".
Comment: The lines "sweet sweet baby/I'll never let you go" (or similar versions of those lines) are a core verse of "Down Down Baby" handclap rhymes. Here's a very widely known version of that rhyme:
Source Rhyme #7:
"DOWN DOWN BABY"
Down, down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet baby
I'll never let you go.
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Shimmy shimmy coco pa
Shimmy shimmy pow!
Grandma, Grandma sick in bed.
Called the doctor and the doctor said,
Let's get the rhythm of the head.
Ding dong.
Let's get the rhythm of the hands
Clap, clap.
Let's get the rhythm of the feet
Stomp, stomp.
Let's get the rhythm of the
Hot dog.
Put it all together and what do you get?
Ding-dong, clap, clap. Stomp, stomp. Hot dog.
Say it all backwards and what do you get?
Hot dog. Stomp, stomp. Clap, clap. Ding dong!
-multiple printed source; including Mudcat: CR
Editor: A video of this rhyme is included below.
I MET A GIRLFRIEND A TRISCUIT/ SHE SAID A TRISCUIT A BISCUIT
The lines "I met a girlfriend a triscuit!/ She said a triscuit a biscuit!" are given in lines 5 & 6 of Example #1 and lines 9 & 10 of Examples #2 and #3 of that rap.
Here are two selected source examples of those lines:
Source Rhyme #8:
"DOEMENIQUE DOEMENIQUE"
Doeminique Doeminique a biscuit*
Ooh cheechee wah wah
A biscuit.
How do you like your lover
Ah biscuit.
He's so fine.
Oh a biscuit.
Just like cherry wine.
Oh a biscuit.
How do you know it isn't so.
Ice cream (ice cream)
Soda pop (soda pop)
Ginger-ale (ginger-ale)
Seven up (seven up)
Now it's time to do your thing,
Now freeze.
-"Slice The Ice", p. 32
*Also, see other similar phrases in this example.
**
Source Rhyme #9:
"DOWN DOWN BABY"
Down Down Baby, down by the roller coaster
Sweet Sweet Baby, my heart's in love
Ooh, che-chihuahua
Biscuit*
I solemnly love her
Biscuit
She is so sweet
Biscuit
Like a cherry treat
Biscuit
Touche Turtle, pull down your girdle
Biscuit
Ruth Archer; http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653 Down Down Baby-Race in Kid's Rhymes (Clapping rhyme, Atlantic City NJ, late 70's); posted on 4/10/2007
Editor: "Ruth Archer" is a White woman I "met" online who happens to be from my hometown (I've never met her in person).
*Also, see other similar phrases in this example.
**
Source Rhyme #10:
"RONALD MCDONALD HAD A BISCUIT"
Ronald McDonald had a biscuit *
Oooh, chee chee wah wah a biscuit
I had a boyfriend a biscuit
he was so fine a biscuit
like a cherry pie a biscuit
now watch me, now watch me, now watch me do my thing
I said a popcorn cherry pie
bang bang choo choo train
chally wally shake my body
tutti frutti shake my booty
uh i'm goin down uh into the ground
uh i'm comin up uh like hot stuff uh
she push me down uh into the ground
uh i'm comin up uh to kick your but
i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i thought you did karate!
-Tierney; http://www.cocojams.com (Handclap Rhymes page); 2/36/2009
*Also, see other similar phrases in this example.
-snip-
Part 3 of this post provides additional examples of probable playground rhyme sources for the remaining lines of the movie Big's "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop" rap.
****
VIDEO
Sesame Street: Handclapping Chants
Uploaded by SesameStreet on Mar 27, 2009
[Viewer comment- "this was 1986!]
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