Edited by Azizi Powell
Latest Revision - Oct. 20, 2022
This pancocojams post presents a compilation of comments from three online discussion threads about whether Black women use the words "kinky", "nappy", "curly" and/or other words as references for their natural hair.
The content of this post is presented for historical, socio-cultural, and linguistic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Click https://www.medicinenet.com/what_are_the_four_types_of_hair/article.htm for the article entitled "What Are The Four Types Of Hair?"
Also, click https://www.dentalhairclinicturkey.com/blog/afro-hair-types-complete-guide/ for an article entitled "Afro Hair Types 4a, 4b, and 4c".
That article includes photographs and drawings that illustrates the different hair classifications.
In addition, click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/10/articles-about-black-natural-hair.html for Part II of a four part pancocojams series about current (as of October 2016) attitudes among African Americans about the word "nappy". That post is entitled "Articles About The Black Natural Hair Movements In USA, Brazil, France, Ivory Coast, & South Africa."
***
DO BLACK PEOPLE USE "KINKY" AND/OR "NAPPY" TO REFER TO THEIR HAIR?
There are numerous online Black (people's) hair forums and other online discussion threads in which Black women discuss Black (people's) hair care and other related topics including which words are used to refer to their hair.
The discussion threads that are showcased in this pancocojams post were somewhat randomly chosen and are presented in chronological order with the oldest discussion thread given first.
This compilation only includes selected comments from those discussions. The first discussion includes the numbers for the comments from that discussion thread. The second discussion includes numbers that I assigned for those selected comments. Those numbers were added for referencing purposes only.
This pancocojams compilation includes comments from 2009 to 2016.
Most of the participants in these discussion threads are African Americans. However, a few commenters are from the Caribbean or from the United Kingdom. A profile photograph for one of the commenters reveals that he is a Black male.
DISCUSSION THREAD #1
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/ Why the desire to use the word "curls" in
reference to kinky natural hair?
ajoyfuljoy, Aug 1, 2009, #1
"I've noticed a lot on various hairboards that a lot of
people say they love their "curls" when their hair is really kinky.
My natural hair is really kinky and coily, but I will never refer to it as
curly b/c it just isn't there.
I've noticed that not a lot of people seem to say or embrace
the words "kinky" or even "nappy." All I hear is curly.
What do you think about this? Do you say curly, nappy, kinky...what is your
word that you use to describe your natural hair and why?"
**
DarkVictory, Aug 1, 2009, #9
"There was another thread on this not too long ago. I call my
hair woolly or nappy. There are a few curls here and there in my head, but for
the most part if I just wash it and let it air dry it looks exactly like the
wool on a sheep. I think of nappy as a neutral fabric term, similar to calling
someone's hair flaxen. Knowing its negative weight for many people I don't use
it to describe someone else, but me, myself I call nappy."
**
Ronnieaj, Aug 1, 2009, #12
"I don't know what you mean when you say kinky. I'm not sure
if that' s meant to describe texture, appearance, or what, so I don't use it.
My hair is coily and curly. I have no sharp angles anywhere. So coily/curly is
the most appropriate way for me to describe my hair. My hair isn't nappy if I
keep it properly moisturized and detangled, so that word only describes my hair
if I've done something wrong. I'm not going to take the liberty of describing
someone else's hair for them (unless asked!), so I use the words most
applicable to describe my own hair."
**
jennboo, Aug 1, 2009, #13
"My hair is kinky, nappy, very textured, LOL.
There really is no other way to describe it... but i
personally don't take offense to those words :grin:
I don't have curls, or even coils.
I think lots of kinky-nappy folks refer to their hair as
'curly' bc it sounds better to other people."
**
Cheleigh, Aug 1, 2009, #17
"I use curly because that's what it is...a small curl. But I
also use coily, kinky, nappy, highly textured. It's all that and a whole lot
more. :grin: I probably use kinky curly/kinky coily most often.
By
the same token, I do not believe that all natural hair curls, so I do not
believe it's a one size fits all sort of thing."
**
music-bnatural-smile, Aug 1, 2009, #24
"IMO my hair is nappy, always has been to me... When I got to
college folks said it was wavy and curly...
Honestly I'm like... Call it what it is, if u got naps call
it a nap we all know what a nap is lol don't try to nice it up...
I think callin it a curl is destracting from the originality
of the texture...
I love my naps...
I won't be mad if you call em curls or waves though...
I actually hate the words kinky and coarse for some
reason...
That's just my two cents though. I do enjoy hearing everyone
else's opinion and appreciate the fact that we all hold unique perspectives."
****
https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-2
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009, #33
… "you should call you hair whatever you see it as. I just
also understand why some people, who wouldn't classify their hair as curly,
might not then use nappy or kinky to describe their hair.
Outside of the internet/hair boards, I have not
once heard someone (regardless of race) use the words nappy or kinky in a
positive way. I would be more inclined to describe my hair as coily if I didn't
use the term curly."
**
Loveygram, Aug 1, 2009, #35
"I never liked the word kinky because it's interchangeable
with weird.
The word Nap actually comes from a description of wool or
the downy surface of woven material.
Coil is something twisted into a spiral shap or a series of
rings and an old form of the word means trouble.
Frizzy means hair that is tightly curled and the commercials
say frizzies are something you should hate..
The english language doean't cut us any breaks
on how we describe our hair or our color so I guess whatever you feel
comfortable with using is the way to go :look:."
**
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009, #37
"music-bnatural-smile said:
'Lol I feel u boo I didn't want to say it so thankyou
lol... "My curls popped" is an irritating statement to me lol just
say ur naps look nice today lol, and they probably look great without the goo
lol I think it looks better honestly I love 4b hair without slime in it, its
got character... Its blackness... Something I always wanted as a mixed chickie'
[end of quote]
No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. :ohwell:
Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair
"blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it
"blackness" sound like you're stereotyping."
**
Ajoyfuljoy, Aug 1, 2009, #40
"SEMO said:
'No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. :ohwell:
Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair
"blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it
"blackness" sound like you're stereotyping.'
[end of quote]
My eyes glazed over that part. One of my loved ones is AA
and her type is probably 1b or something. Her hair is barely wavy. And yet she
isn't any less black than I am (well technically she has more European in her
blood but you know what I am saying!)
Not every AA person has that highly textured hair. But I was
referring to the highly textured hair in this thread.
And I hate to even call it an AA thing b/t I know that
Jewish people have kinky coily hair too! The whole world is so diverse. But for
the sake of this tiny thread I was just referring to AA with the coiliest
hair...not saying that our loosely textured hair sistas are any less AA :)"
**
Netta 1, Aug 1, 2009, #48
"I refer to my hair hair as nappy, kinky, frizzy, and
coily.
..and I don't think what people call their hair matters as
much as their attitude about natural afro textured hair in general...
least we forget that sometimes there are two transitions
into the world of "napdom" the first is physical and the second is
mental.."
**
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009. #49
"[quoting ajoyfuljoy's comment #40]
[end of quote]
I know. ;) My comment/question wasn't directed at you. And
maybe I'm too sensitive in this area. But having grown up in a predominantly
white area, like music-bnatural-smile has said she did, I also understand how
certain mentality's can inadvertently rub off on you (without you realizing
it).
And her comment reminded me too much of the fake
"compliments" that white people give sometimes when they really think
they're better than you and are trying to "humor" you. Like,
"your brown skin is so exotic and pretty. I hate how pale I am. I wish I
was more your color." :rolleyes: Knowing good and well they would NEVER
trade you places.
I'm trying not to put words in her mouth. These are just my
impressions and could be way off base. That's why I asked about it."
-snip-
The word in italics is the way that comment was written in that discussion thread.
**
dynamic1, Aug 1, 2009, #53
"VirtuousGal said:
I think more of a question would be, how did the phrase
kinky come about?"
[end of quote]
From the term kink.
-a short or tight twist or curl caused by doubling or
winding something upon itself or
-A tight curl, or bend in length of thin material, as one
caused by the tensing of a looped section of wire. or
-a short twist, curl, or bend in a thread, rope, hair, wire,
etc.
Kinky is not a negative word, unless one attributes having
kinky hair as something bad or wrong.
Regarding the topic -what difference does it make if someone
with tightly curled hair calls their hair curly. It is what it is. I use all
three terms; and I have had my hair referenced as kinky, curly and nappy by
others who embrace the terminology in a positive way.
Is this one of those "stay in your lane threads?"
(i.e "my hair is curly..no it isn't..let me save you from your delusion,
denial and self-hate)"
**
Carrie A, Aug 1, 2009, #56
"PiscesBlue10 said:
'Sooooo, what exactly is a curl, a kink and a coil?'
[end of quote]
Actually they are all synonyms. A kink is a shorter curl or
bend. A coil and a curl are interchangeable terms.
Also, people with all hair types use finishing/styling
products, it isn't a crime when kinky/curly/nappy naturals do it."
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-3
1QTPie, Aug 1, 2009. #62
"It all means the same thing to me. Kinky, coily, curly,
nappy."
**
music-bnatural-smile. Aug 1, 2009. #69
"SEMO said:
'No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. :ohwell:
Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair
"blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it
"blackness" sound like you're stereotyping."
[end of quote]
That was like a childhood thing... Pople hounded me for
having my hair thats all...
I'm not stereotyping but the world stereotyped me as
"white" for my hair... thats why I wanted 4b hair cuz I thought then
ppl would leave me alone...
its not my personal opinion, just a previous reaction I
had from an experience in the past
don't be rubbed wrong we all have pretty hair"
**
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009. #71
"[quoted comment #69 from music-bnatural-smile]
[end of quote]
I understand. Thanks for responding. I apologize for
jumping to conclusions. I just know, from personal experience, how living in
cerain environments can mess a person's mind up when it comes to certain
things."
**
Priss Pot, Aug 1, 2009, #72
"I call my hair kinky curly, but most times I just say kinky.
Doesn't bother me any."
**
bablou00, Aug 1, 2009, #73
"I just call it what I feel like that day. If it looks curly
its curly if it looks nappy and kinky its nappy and kinky. I have hair all thru
out that has a so called "curl" pattern but mostly my hair is
dominanted by 4b coils, curls, kinks, naps, etc....its just hair! IMO"
**
Shandell. Aug 1, 2009. #77
"I am a 4b/a with some coils in the front and back when it
dries it does not look curly it looks like black cotton with sporadically
placed coils. Someone saw may hair today and said, "she needs a perm
quick." I looked her in the eyes and smiled. LOL. Trust me they were not
considering my hair 'curly' either or they would have never been bold enough to
express their ignorance. My hair is considered 'nappy' but I call it 'natural'"
**
Junebug D, Aug 1, 2009, #79
"It's all the same to me. :) Though when I am being
descriptive, I would generally call type 3 hair curly and type 4 hair coily,
kinky, nappy. Nappy is not a negative word to me."
**
Austro-Afrikana, Aug 1, 2009, #90
"I don't say curly, wavy, kinky, coily and definitely not
nappy (i think it's rude). I've always just said that i have afro hair, simple."
****
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-4
Solitude, Aug 1, 2009. #91
"Austro-Afrikana said:
'I don't say curly, wavy, kinky, coily and definitely not
nappy (i think it's rude). I've always just said that i have afro hair, simple.'
[end of quote]
Yeah, I've always liked "afro-textured" hair.
That always seemed to be an accurate description of most of the hair types we
discuss on this board."
**
Awesomely Nappy, Aug 2, 2009, #95
"Tom-A-to, Tom-AH-to
Curl are Coils.
so i'm getting that if you have small curls, its ok to call
it coils. if you have small coils, its ok to call it kinks. if you like nappy,
call it naps then. whatever....
I call my hair what I call it depending on how it looks, how
i feel... sometimes I call it brillo, a kitchen, a comb breaker, the don
king... especially when I sleep on it without properly setting it the night
before. I wake up to a terribly matted mess... oh, I also call it a mess some
times... doesn't mean i think of it in a negative way or that I have issues
when I call it what I call it on those days...
I LOVE my hair. every nappy, coily, curl on my head. I love
it, and the only thing I'd change is for it to be longer. I love it so much, I
want more of it!!!
Sometimes I think its 4a, sometimes the front looks 3b.
sometimes my curls "pop":rolleyes: (and why is "poping the
curl" such a bad thing to say?), sometimes it looks like cotton candy.
Sometimes its wavy, sometimes its very curly and defined. Sometimes it looks
like a tangled mess, some times it looks like a coil-out. Sometimes its a mix
of a lot of different textures and I think that my hair has multiple
personalities.
I dont think less than(when I use so called bad words to
describe it) or greater than (when I uses so called positive words like curly
or 3-x) of my hair. When I describe it, its based on how I feel, how it looks
and how my mood is (frustrated with detangling, goofy, happy, sad because its
not doing what I want... excited when it does what I want...) what word my
tongue picks out from my vocabulary that best describes what it is I see and
feel on my head... shouldn't bother anyone...
I think that, yes, some folks have deeply rooted hair issues
and may try to "talk up" their situation despite what our eyes see as
reality... but not all people (knowingly) does that. if you say your hair has
big 3 curls, when its really 4a coils, then maybe thats what that person really
believes based on their interpretation on hair knowledge... few things-if
not-nothing (to do with hair) is written in stone. There is no law that says 4a
IS 4a or 3c IS 3c or that 4b cant have curls. most people on hair sites cant
even agree on what each type really is (i still dont realllllly know my own
hair type)... perception is a beast! But I wont get upset if someone
:rolleyes::nono::perplexed at me for me calling my "cottony" hair
"curls" instead of "kinks" or if because I have a 1x1 cubic
inch of a patch of 3a "curls" hair behind my ears, so I call all my
whole head of (4b "coils") hair 3b... if thats is what I believe. to
each their own. (ignorance is bliss, and maybe I just wanted to be happy that
day!:grin:)
All I know is, I love my hair... and it goes by many names!”…
**
song_of_serenity, Aug 2, 2009, #103
…."As for RECLAIMING the word "nappy?" While I have
no problem with anyone using the word, come on. RECLAIMING a word that was
FIRSTLY used as a negative thing? What? Reclaiming negativity? I'm not going to
recycle some idiots insult to me and "spin it" to make it positive.
We aren't short any words in this abundant english language that I can't steal
massa's word and use it for myself, ie "nig**r" and all the varieties
of it. UGH.
I personally have a problem with the word nappy because,
like many others have iterated on this post, the word has not historically been
used in a positive manner to describe textured or ethnic hair. I'm sure it's
not completely the same, but "reclaiming" the word to me is like trying
to reclaim the word ni**er as something positive. I know my comparison is in
the extreme, but it is how I feel. I feel very strongly about this.
To say that I should maybe call my hair nappy because that
is what it is is like closing a huge window filled with sunlight just to make
sure I am in the dark again for the satisfaction of someone else. I am not
trying to "pass" with my hair, and I am sure no one else here is
either. African American hair comes in so many textures, and for people who
have struggled with loving their hair...well....to learn how to take care of it
and to find that there are curls there - no matter how small or loose - only to
be told that they should embrace terms that may not fully describe their
hair...well..."
-snip-
This is the way this comment was written on that discussion thread.
**
melodies815, August 4, 2009, #104
..."I don't know...I feel like someone is trying to take
something precious from me, something I have gained from hours and days of
reading and washing and conditioning and doing all that we know now to do to
have hair in its best health and, therefore, appearance.
I don't like that feeling at all. No one has the right to
tell me that if I call my curls curls that I am deluded or deceived. I am not.
Now, to be clear, the sides of my head are more tightly coiled than the top and
back, but I still can see tiny curls there without working at it.
This morning, my husband rubbed his fingers through my hair
and told me..."Your hair is amazing. I never knew it looked like this..."
I didn't say this of myself. Someone who loved me said
it...and he said it having previously thought my hair was "nappy."
There was NOTHING positive about his former ideas about my hair.
If someone calls their hair curly, I think it's because it
is...whether those curls are tight or loose...and I think we have all gained a
tremendous education being here on this board. I would hope that no one would
want to take away the gains we've gotten through being educated on our hair
just to "keep it real" or to lessen anyone's irritation about which
terms we use. What is even more interesting to me is that ethnic hair continues
to change in appearance as it grows. As we saw earlier, what might appear to be
kinky when short might actually prove to be curly or wavy when long...
(I would prefer the term kinky to nappy. I find kinky to be
a beautiful term.)
(Last thing: I did not want to even post here because this
thread troubles me deeply for reasons I cannot yet fully understand. I think I
want to say thank you to the OP, but I'm not sure yet...) :perplexed:ohwell:"
****
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-5
nappi, Aug 3, 2009. #121
"i always say my hair is nappy or kinky because that is
the texture
to describe 4a/b as curly is wrong in my opinion"
-snip-
This commenter is a Black male [based on his profile photograph.]
**
BonBon, Aug 3, 2009. #124
…"At the end of the day if a Black woman 4a/b is natural and
looks in the mirror and says "I love my my hair, I love these little
curls", is it really any different than saying little kinks, coils,
napps??
The pont is this person loves their natural hair full stop.
Regardless of what they call it they are natural and choose to remain naturals
against BW beauty norms."
**
Cherokee-n-Black. Aug 3, 2009, #128
…"As people have said, coils are curls anyway
[...]
In response to the original post, however,
"kinky" and "nappy" have gained acceptance in recent years.
I'm sure there are plenty of us who remember a time when calling someone's hair
nappy or kinky would be an insult. And more to the point, in most cases, they
are curls, tightly coiled or curled, but curls nonetheless. I have no problem
referring to "kinky or nappy" hair as curly, but since
"curly" has so many variations, if people are o.k. with saying
"kinky" and "nappy" then it gets closer to the point.
But after seeing this post as an example of "kinky," I have to say,
maybe the perception's not as universal as I thought. LOL"
**
Oasis, Aug 3, 2009, #131
'Me calling my hair nappy is not me trying to take back or
reclaim the word or make it positive.
My hair is nappy.*shrugs* There is just no other way to
describe it."
-snip-
This is the way this comment is written in that discussion thread.
****
Cherokee-n-Black, Aug 3, 2009, #132
"Morenita said:
'@ Cherokee: Yeah, you'd be surprised. My hubby is from PR,
and he used to call my hair nappy/kinky before I schooled him.'
[end of quote]
Oh yeah...well, that's a whole 'nother discussion re: The
perception of some Black Spanish speakers! LOL. I guess I should have said I'd
be surprised if someone AA thought that was "kinky" or
"nappy." It's funny though, I always thought growing up,
"nappy" meant "uncombed." "
**
Nonie, Aug 3, 2009, #133
"I say nappy or kinky because that precisely describes my
hair, but I have no problem with the word curly either, because kinks and naps
are nothing more than tight curls.
In other words, all kinky/nappy hair is curly but not all
curly hair is kinky/nappy. What makes hair kinky/nappy is how tight/small
the curls are.
My kinky/nappy hair: Behold the tiny curls that look like
coils and behave like springs when stretched."
-snip-
The bold font in the way those words in this comment were written in that discussion thread.
**
Nonie, Aug 6, 2009, #139
"Poohbear said:
'Some kinky hair is curly. It's just not a loose curl. A
coil is a form or type of curl. When someone says their hair is curly, it does
not always mean loosely curled like a type 3 or type 2. If it's not straight,
it's curled. Even a wave can be considered a curl.'
[end of quote]
Thank you!
I think the word kinky confuses people because when they
first learned it, the hair that was being described as kinky didn't appear
curly to them so it's hard for them to shake that "deduced
definition" off. But if you look up the definition of the word, you will
see that kinky is definitely curly with one condition: the curls must be tight
and not loose.
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:
Tightly twisted or curled: kinky hair.
Encarta Dictionary: full of tight coils
Meriam Webster: closely twisted or curled
Wordsmyth: having tight twists or curls, as hair."
****
DISCUSSION THREAD #2
From https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair
What's the Difference between Kinky & Curly Hair?
10-17-2010, 10:19 PM #1, SweetDarkChocolate
Location, Houston
"I always wanted to know the specific difference between the
two. If someone would place explain it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks...
-Aug 2010: Last Relaxer
-Oct 2010: Micro Braids
*Currently Transitioning"
**
10-17-2010, 10:30 PM #2 alethean
Location, Michigan
"When referring to curl pattern: straight is nonexistent,
wavy is looser (than curly or kinky), curly is tighter, and kinky is even
tighter. The size of an individual curl tends to be smaller in kinky hair than
in curly hair. I can't be positive where the line from curly to kinky is. All I
know is mine is definitely kinky because not only are the individual curls no
larger than a pen spring, they don't clump together to make a
"defined" curl pattern, with or without curl defining product.
But other than that, I can't tell you, because some hair I
would still call curly, others would call kinky. And my sister would categorize
all non-straight hair "curly." Idk."
**
10-17-2010, 11:14 PM# 3 MommieDearest
"Hmmmmmm I kinda think that the distinction between curly and
kinky hair is arbitrary. Some people have a problem with the term
"kinky" or "nappy" in reference to hair. They will use the
term "tightly curled" or even "tightly coiled."
I define curly hair as hair that has very little or no
frizz, and curls on it's own without a curl definer, and curls even moreso WITH
a curl definer. As alethean stated above, curly hair "clumps."
I define kinky hair as hair that has frizz, does not curl on
it's own without a curl definer and does not REALLY "curl" with a
curl definer. Kinky hair does not "clump."
I define my hair as kinky or nappy. Curl definers do not
make my hair "clump." When I want to do a wash-and-go, I'm better off
using regular conditioner, leaving it in and giving my hair a vigorous shake.
My naps form into little tiny coils or "slinkies" that are kinda
cute. ;-)"
**
10-17-2010, 11:16 PM# 4 CinnamonBiscuit
"Kinky hair is just curly hair with a much tighter or more
extreme curl in each strand."
**
10-17-2010, 11:21 PM #5 dessertfirst
"It will vary according to each person. For me curly hair is
a looser curl pattern with more strands per clump of curls which gives it more
weight. Kinky hair to me is light hair with tiny curl pattern or zig zag, and
less hair goes into each clump which makes it shrink and frizz. My mom who's
African calls it curly, my dad who's bi-racial calls it nappy. Most days it
truly looks like both simultaneously."
**
10-17-2010, 11:27 PM #6 GalaxyGirl2012
"i dont think there's going to be a general
consensus but from my understanding kinky just means anything that isn't
straight, so that could be wavy, curly, or z shaped."
****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page2
10-17-2010, 11:43 PM #11 MS-gg
Location - Natural Hair Heaven
"Kinky=nappy. Kinky can be nappy curls or frizzy loose curls.
It is hair that is wild and not uniformed.
Curly=non nappy to most people although I tend to believe
that curly hair can be coily hair as well.
Coily=nappy and kinky, just a tighter curl pattern and not a
loosely curled pattern.
Even my definition is subject to change though
Last Relaxer March 23 2006, BC Sept 26 2006"
-snip-
Relaxer= Chemical hair straightener/perms; BC= Big Chop = getting relaxed hair cut off to go natural.
**
10-17-2010, 11:49 PM #12 Napia Mia
"Personally, I don't buy into nappy hair being smaller
version of curls. See my blog post
http://nappyme.wordpress.com/2009/11...he-word-nappy/ where I responded to a
young lady who admonished me for using the word "nappy" to describe
my hair.
I think the word curly just makes some people feel better
about having nappy hair. The word curly seems to be a safer, more politically
acceptable way to describe nappy hair in the off line world and around the
Internet as well. Saying nappy hair is curly to me is a way for folks with
nappy/kinky hair to not feel as if they're any different from someone who has
larger, naturally curls. It's like they're saying "see, my hair is no
different than yours...it's just a much, much much smaller curl."
Uhhh...yeah...whatever.
Kinky hair is coiled and/or a mixture of irregularly sized
coils, loops, and bends. In many instances you can have all that happening on
individual strands all over your head. Folks with uniform coils are likely to
have clumps that show themselves off in a defined way. The folks like me, with
all the irregularities will have what's commonly called 4B hair.
And adding to this, to me there's a distinct difference
between a curl and a coil [photographs inserted]
So I'm hard pressed to see why folks with nappy hair want to call their hair
curly. But that's just me... I don't look at my naps and see "curls";
I see kinks and that's fine with me.
Now I realize this will not be a popular opinion, but
eh...there it is."
**
10-18-2010, 02:06 AM #14 LBellatrix
"Kinky = no pattern / irregular pattern
Coily = small pattern (coils) that may or may not be visible
from a distance
Curly = larger pattern (curls) that are usually visible from
a distance
I have kinks and coils. The coils show more when my hair is
short (like right now). The kinks take over as the hair grows."
**
-18-2010, 03:24 AM#17 meraki
…"When I think about my hair, the words "nappy" and "curly"
come to mind most often. I don't think that's a contradiction in terms.
"Coily" is more accurate than "curly" for my hair. But for
me, that's 'hair board' talk that hasn't entered my head yet regularly as a way
to think about my hair.
I rarely talk about my hair outside of NP. If black people
talk to me about my hair, they tend to use the word "curly." I don't
use any descriptor. If I'm talking about my hair with people who aren't black,
I'm likely to say something like "because my hair is so/very/extremely
curly..." They know what a curl is, and I don't use "nappy" and
"kinky" with people who aren't black. Hey, that's me.
Considering all the issues we have about hair
and all the 'curl definition' pursuit we see, I'm sure that some people use the
word "curly" to run from the reality of their nappy hair. But I don't
think I do. I don't think I have Carrot Top curls, and I'm not fooling myself
or anyone else about what my hair looks like. I'm using the words that make
sense to me.”
-snip-
"NP"= nappturality.com discussion forum
****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page3
10-18-2010, 10:31 AM #22 Denny
Location - London, U.K
"I would not use the work 'kinky' as a hair descriptor
either, its a cultural thing kinky in the UK has nothing do with hair so its
not a question of being in denial. Use whatever term suits your cultural/social
environment, (in the UK nappy is what babies wear).
So for me outside of this board my hair is extremely curly
or cottony."
**
10-18-2010, 05:55 PM #27 Princess Pamplemousse
…"the various connotations behind the words "kinky" or
"nappy" don't change the sentiments behind this post. Lots of black
people do call their hair ~curly~ so as not to seem too different from the
white folks.
To people living outside of the US: are curly, wavy and straight the only words
in your lexicons that categorize hair? Before I started visiting e-boards, I
had no idea black people from anywhere called their natural hair curly"
**
10-18-2010, 06:55 PM#28 Kayin
"Originally Posted by Electra
'To people living outside of the US: are curly, wavy and
straight the only words in your lexicons that categorize hair? Before I started
visiting e-boards, I had no idea black people from anywhere called their
natural hair curly'
[end of quote]
I don't use the word "curly" to describe my hair
as my definition of curly is much the same as Nappy Me's. From what I can tell
that is also the sense in which other Caribbean people use the word.
In referring to my hair "natural" would be the
word used. I don't know a lot of Caribbean/WI people (at least outside of hair
boards) who try for a further breakdown. In fact in my experience the word
"natural" refers to people sporting a specific type of natural
texture, what would probably be classified as type 4 hair. If you are sporting
the type of hair shown in Nappy Me's photos you would be described as having
curly, not natural, hair.
As for "nappy", never heard it growing up in
connection with hair. Like Denny, nappy for me was a noun referring to a baby's
diaper (in my case I heard it used to refer to cloth as opposed to disposable
diapers). The only Caribbean person I can recall using the word
"nappy" to describe hair is Tanya Stephens (Jamaican reggae artist)
in one of her songs. I'm presuming her usage is due to American influence?
****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page4
10-19-2010, 12:05 AM #31 moriahsuperstar
"Quote Originally Posted by Denny
'Because we all don't live in a country where the word
'nappy' is associated with hair.'
[end of quote]
"I agree.
Also, I've just always thought of the word "nappy"
as a very derrogatory term, a sister of the other "n" word because
that is always the context in which it has been used. So I just continue not to
use it at all in my vocabulary."
**
10-19-2010, 11:02 AM#33 beautifulleo
"I usually describe my hair as curly. I use the term nappy
and kinky interchangeably.
Transition date: April 2007"
-snip-
"transition date" = date changed from relaxed (straightened, permed) hair to natural hair
**
10-19-2010, 02:39 PM #36 cg1
Location - Baton Rouge [Louisiana]
"I am not a fan of that word either... I dont see anyone's hair as nappy. I
think i prefer tightly coiled over kinky too.
Just BC'd 10/1"
-snip=
BC= Big cut [had hair cut off that was permed to go “natural”]
**
10-19-2010, 02:55 PM #38 naturally yours
"i consider my hair kinky curly because i have type 4a which
is in the kinky category but my curls clump define without product."
**
10-19-2010, 04:25 PM #39 Denny
Location - London, U.K
"Quote Originally Posted by Electra
'To people living outside of the US: are curly, wavy and
straight the only words in your lexicons that categorize hair? Before I started
visiting e-boards, I had no idea black people from anywhere called their
natural hair curly '
[end of quote]
Well growing up my in my world my hair was just hair neither
straight, curly, wavy or whatever and the words nappy or kinky were never used
in relation to hair not cos they were considered bad words but they have different
definitions in the UK (or did have). Growing up if I had to describe my hair to
other people it would have been I had black or afro hair.
Black people with wavy hair were told she had that 'Indian'
hair (the older generation would say she/he have 'coolie hair') - folks knew
what type of hair you were refering to."
**
10-19-2010, 04:35 PM #40 Denny
Location - London, U.K
"I would consider afro type hair extremely curly hair. I have
no problem with the new words (for me) learnt on NP that others use (coily,
kinky, nappy etc). But to me if there is a curl spectrum - afro hair that
tangles on itself are at the extreme end of it and hair like Halle Berry/Mariah
Carey/Leona Lewis wavy hair/looser curls are at the other end. So IMO I don't
see using 'curly' as a descriptor as a denial of the nappy, kinky,coily,
cottony hair that we have.
The coil/napps/kinks strands whatever curls up don't they,
it does lie straight. (Pull out a strand and look at it). Curls can range from
hair that coils up to hair that slightly bends - they are all curls.
Until there is a black hair council that is elected to
decide these things call it whatever you want lol"
****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page5
10-19-2010, 04:45 PM #42 ya~akua
"personally, i dont think that there is a difference between
kinky and curly...its all the same to me...some people that ive come across
prefer curly to kinky because they think that it sounds better...some black
women that i know are offended by the terms kinky and nappy..."
**
10-19-2010, 10:43 PM #47gr2006
Location - Spring Lake, N.C
"In my opinion, kinky hair is curly hair, but the kinks are
very, very small curls. I use coily, curly, and kinky interchangably. Even
though my hair is 4b/4c, I see the tiny spirals, loops, and "z" bends
that make tiny wave and curl patterns. From root to tip as I seperate my hair,
I see the very, very tiny waviness and curliness of the strands.
I don't prefer the term nappy. It always reminded me of
diapers. But people can use whatever terms they want at the end of the day.
There's really no right or wrong answer when it comes to the opinions of coily
vs. nappy vs. kinky vs. curly.
Kinky hair aka afro hair strands are highly textured.
Sometimes you can actually feel it by running your fingers down a strand, the
tiny crinkles that make up the strand. They are not smooth. It can definitely
have curly or coily tendencies.
But for real, let's face it, IRL if a person describes so
and so's hair as curly, people are going to automatically think of <insert
NM's curlie girl pic here> hair, not afro textured curly hair. On hairboards
we can attempt to claim our afro textured hair as curly but our hair isn't
usually the first type of hair that comes to mind outside of hair boards and
that's fine with me.”…
****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page6
10-20-2010, 10:09 AM #54 Denny
Location - London, U.K
"Quote Originally Posted by Electra
'I guess...I don't see why there has to be a "curl
spectrum". Curly hair is curly, nappy (black) hair is obviously something
different, otherwise we wouldn't need all these qualifying terms when
explaining that it's curly. Folks would just say--my hair is curly, instead of
my hair is kinky-curly, coily-curly, tightly curly, small-y curly....It's like,
you may as well say: All hair is hair...so there's no need to have words like
curly, straight, wavy nappy, kinky, coily etc. anyway!
I think my question boils down to: Why can't black hair
stand alone? Why is the definition of our hair confined within the limits of
another type of hair? But re the bolded lol you're right their's no afro
council (that I'm aware of) so..free for all.’
[end of quote]
Well I equate it to a colour spectrum most people in the
African Diaspora are 'brown' however we are not all the same brown tone, some
of us are technically not brown at all (e.g Vanessa Williams end of the
spectrum) however we all call ourselves 'black people' without always
qualifying our different brown tones.
Even tho we are as brown as the average Sri Lankan.
So to me just as are they are different tones of brown
people within our community there are different types of curly hair. One can be
a subset of a set without losing ones uniqueness."
**
12-17-2010, 04:50 PM #58 Chocolate CurlyGirl
"Personally I think kinky refers to TEXTURE, not curl
pattern. One can have kinky and curly hair in my opinion. Not everyone with
large curls has silky hair, so that wouldn't disqualify them as being curly.
The diameter of the curl may be large but the texture may be kinky."
**
12-17-2010, 04:56 PM #59 Olahh
Location - Georgia
"U can have both. Kinky= a hair strand that bends and turns .
Curly= a hair strand that forms a ringlet or O shape."
****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page7
12-17-2010, 11:03 PM #61 MissNic
Location - London
"I have to agree with Denny and Kayin. In the UK amongst
black people if your hair is unprocessed its called natural hair or afro hair.
So i describe my hair as just being natural. If i had a silkier texture then it
would be described as "coolie". however if you wanted to be rude you
would call their hair "picky" particularlly if they had peppercorns
even if their hair was processed"
-snip-
"processed" = chemically "relaxed", "permed", "straightened"
**
12-17-2010, 11:15 PM #62 Denny
Location - London, U.K
" 'Picky' have not heard that word in a looooong time lol, it
was used in my circle for uncombed natural hair that looked unkempt/messy."
**
12-17-2010, 11:56 PM #63 mymy
"Quote Originally Posted by Denny
" 'Picky' have not heard that word in a looooong time lol, it
was used in my circle for uncombed natural hair that looked unkempt/messy.’
[end of quote]
My mom told me that this is a term that was used when she
was growing up in GA."
**
12-18-2010, 06:46 PM #65 kuzucan
Location - washington
"Quote Originally Posted by Soul Rebel
"Agreed. I work with hair nearly daily. Even with nappies
with consistent curl patterns, the texture is usually *completely* different,
and I have to treat the hair very differently.'
[end of quote]
Interesting! Thanks for discussing the distinction. I would
consider my hair curly and kinky, but texture wise it is very soft. My man has
this quintessential "baby" hair around the edges and wavy/kinky hair
but his hair is very coarse feeling and the individual strands feel thicker and
wider than my fine hair."
**
12-18-2010, 07:55 PM #66 NiceNapLady
"Both terms (kinky and/or curly) can be used to describe
natural hair. I see it as a matter of how you view your own natural hair and
what you've been taught to believe cultural environment wise (whether you think
your hair or someone else s hair is kinky, curly).
Also...IMO if your hair stretches when pulled and bounces
back once let go...then your hair is curly, or coily, or kinky, or all in the
same.
-snip-
Commenter’s quote:
"I am my hair and my hair is me, God gave it to me the way he
wanted it to be, so I am here now sporting it, for the rest of the world to
see!" NiceNapLady
**
12-19-2010, 07:57 PM #68 candlowe
Validated and Nappified
Location - London
"Let me clarify the word "nappy" in the UK this
word is used for what the Americans call "diaper". Thus we associate
the word "nappy " with babies. So we don't use that word to describe
natural hair. The older generation of Caribbean people would refer to someone
who has "good hair" as "coolie" hair. So for me
"coolie" is an insult and for me there is no such thing as "good
hair" just healthy natural hair.
On the question what is the difference between
"kinky" and "curly" that is a difficult question as with
afro hair there can be so many textures on one head of hair. Also, people who
are mixed race can also have kinky hair and some people who are not can have
curls. Look at Somalies and Ethiopians and compare them to people who are
Nigerians or South Africans. So to categorise people on the racial basis is
misleading in itself."
**
12-19-2010, 11:37 PM #69 Crowning_Glory
Location - Alabama
"I think that kinky and curly can coexist or be totally
separate. I see no reason why either would have to be exclusive. I generally
just describe my hair as an afro or fluffy. But I also have kinky and curly
hair. To me curly or coily just means forming a loop/circle and my hair does
that. I'm not even sure what I think kinky is because I rarely think of it
outside of nappturality but I'd say I think fluffy. Also since I think of
curly/coily in terms of an individual strand and not a section of hair it
definitely can apply to many of our natural hair textures. Because, if I see an
individual strand pulled out of someones scalp and it forms little loops, coils
or spirals I'm not going to say it isn't curly because it doesn't have another
hair to clump with so coily or curly doesn't seem to have anything to do with
definition to me."
****
DISCUSSION THREAD #3
From
http://urbanbushbabes.com/kinky-vs-nappy-is-there-a-difference/
[The link to this article and its comments is no longer active.]
KINKY VS NAPPY: IS THERE A DIFFERENCE? Posted by Cipriana Quann 2/24/11[?]
"You have heard the hairnology of kinky and
nappy thrown around the websphere, blogsphere, and forumsphere time and time
again. Is there a difference in the connotation of the two and if so why?"
Comments:
1. Roxanne Millwood, 2014
…"I REFUSE to call my hair Nappy. I cringe when I hear the
word, such negative connotations. Ewww........I don't even familiarize myself
with natural hair sites if they have they word "nappy" apart of their
site's name or blasted all over their page. I find it so degrading. Black hair
is beautiful! It is "kinky" because you never know what the curl
pattern will be..It's a beautiful surprise. :-) How can we call something
beautiful and unique to its wearer "nappy"?? To take it a step
further it is like using another word I dislike when describing
"black" hair--"Good Hair" <--I don't like that word too!
Looks like I ended up having a lot to say! LOL!!
**
Reply
2. Kodessa31 , 2014
"I so agree with the term " good hair" as being
derogatory. It makes me cringe inside when ppl refer to good hair only being
long and thick. Anybody's hair could be long and thick all you have to do is
take care of it. This society and their choice of words! Tisk!"
**
Reply
3. 13ga, 2016
"kinky is just as bad a term as nappy"
**
4. Aiych, 2014
"I only hear nappy used pejoratively. Also, my mom always uses it to describe her
new growth in between relaxers, and not positively. She will say something like "I can't
stand when my hair gets nappy like this!", and I'm sitting there with my
kinky fro like "ok take your complaints to God and maybe if you pray hard
enough he'll cast that cursed nappy gene out of your DNA foreva
hallelujerrr!" -__- "
**
5. ArialynnRose, 2014
"I've always used
nappy to mean "tangled and knotted", whereas "kinky" simply
refers to a person's curl pattern. So, in my usage, "nappy" could be
used for any hair type -- even white people with a tangled and knotted mess on
top of their head.
To use both of them in a sentence, I'd say, "I detangle
my kinky hair on a regular basis in order to keep it from getting nappy."
So, yes, I see "nappy" and "kinky" as
intrinsically different."
**
Reply
6. Monniej01, 2014
"there is a difference, in my opinion. kinky refers to texture, where as nappy
refers to a condition. maybe it is just
context, but i think nappy can be corrected.
in my mind it means hard, brittle, dry, matted or difficult to
control. with the proper maintenance and
techniques nappy can be transformed.
kinky is the texture of the hair that grows out of your head. jmho~"
****
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