Black Women Discuss Whether They Use "Kinky", "Nappy", "Curly", Or Other Words To Refer To Their Natural Hair

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest Revision - Oct. 20, 2022

This pancocojams post presents a compilation of comments from three online discussion threads about whether Black women use the words "kinky", "nappy", "curly" and/or other words as references for their natural hair.

The content of this post is presented for historical, socio-cultural, and linguistic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Click https://www.medicinenet.com/what_are_the_four_types_of_hair/article.htm for the article entitled "What Are The Four Types Of Hair?"
 
Also, click https://www.dentalhairclinicturkey.com/blog/afro-hair-types-complete-guide/ for an article entitled "Afro Hair Types 4a, 4b, and 4c".

That article includes photographs and drawings that illustrates the different hair classifications.

In addition, click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/10/articles-about-black-natural-hair.html for Part II of a four part pancocojams series about current (as of October 2016) attitudes among African Americans about the word "nappy". That post is entitled "Articles About The Black Natural Hair Movements In USA, Brazil, France, Ivory Coast, & South Africa."  

***
DO BLACK PEOPLE USE "KINKY" AND/OR "NAPPY" TO REFER TO THEIR HAIR?
There are numerous online Black (people's) hair forums and other online discussion threads in which Black women discuss Black (people's) hair care and other related topics including which words are used to refer to their hair. 

The discussion threads that are showcased in this pancocojams post were somewhat randomly chosen and are presented in chronological order with the oldest discussion thread given first.

This compilation only includes selected comments from those discussions. The first discussion includes the numbers for the comments from that discussion thread. The second discussion includes numbers that I assigned for those selected comments. Those numbers were added for referencing purposes only.

This pancocojams compilation includes comments from 2009 to 2016.

Most of the participants in these discussion threads are African Americans. However, a few commenters are from the Caribbean or from the United Kingdom. A profile photograph for one of the commenters reveals that he is a Black male.

DISCUSSION THREAD #1 
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/ Why the desire to use the word "curls" in reference to kinky natural hair?

ajoyfuljoy, Aug 1, 2009, #1
"I've noticed a lot on various hairboards that a lot of people say they love their "curls" when their hair is really kinky. My natural hair is really kinky and coily, but I will never refer to it as curly b/c it just isn't there.

I've noticed that not a lot of people seem to say or embrace the words "kinky" or even "nappy." All I hear is curly. What do you think about this? Do you say curly, nappy, kinky...what is your word that you use to describe your natural hair and why?"

**
DarkVictory, Aug 1, 2009, #9
"There was another thread on this not too long ago. I call my hair woolly or nappy. There are a few curls here and there in my head, but for the most part if I just wash it and let it air dry it looks exactly like the wool on a sheep. I think of nappy as a neutral fabric term, similar to calling someone's hair flaxen. Knowing its negative weight for many people I don't use it to describe someone else, but me, myself I call nappy."

**
Ronnieaj, Aug 1, 2009, #12
"I don't know what you mean when you say kinky. I'm not sure if that' s meant to describe texture, appearance, or what, so I don't use it. My hair is coily and curly. I have no sharp angles anywhere. So coily/curly is the most appropriate way for me to describe my hair. My hair isn't nappy if I keep it properly moisturized and detangled, so that word only describes my hair if I've done something wrong. I'm not going to take the liberty of describing someone else's hair for them (unless asked!), so I use the words most applicable to describe my own hair."

**
jennboo, Aug 1, 2009, #13
"My hair is kinky, nappy, very textured, LOL.

 There really is no other way to describe it... but i personally don't take offense to those words :grin:

 I don't have curls, or even coils.

 I think lots of kinky-nappy folks refer to their hair as 'curly' bc it sounds better to other people."

**
Cheleigh, Aug 1, 2009, #17
"I use curly because that's what it is...a small curl. But I also use coily, kinky, nappy, highly textured. It's all that and a whole lot more. :grin: I probably use kinky curly/kinky coily most often.

By the same token, I do not believe that all natural hair curls, so I do not believe it's a one size fits all sort of thing."

**
music-bnatural-smile, Aug 1, 2009, #24
"IMO my hair is nappy, always has been to me... When I got to college folks said it was wavy and curly...

Honestly I'm like... Call it what it is, if u got naps call it a nap we all know what a nap is lol don't try to nice it up...

I think callin it a curl is destracting from the originality of the texture...

I love my naps...

I won't be mad if you call em curls or waves though...

I actually hate the words kinky and coarse for some reason...

That's just my two cents though. I do enjoy hearing everyone else's opinion and appreciate the fact that we all hold unique perspectives."

****

https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-2
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009, #33
… "you should call you hair whatever you see it as. I just also understand why some people, who wouldn't classify their hair as curly, might not then use nappy or kinky to describe their hair.

Outside of the internet/hair boards, I have not once heard someone (regardless of race) use the words nappy or kinky in a positive way. I would be more inclined to describe my hair as coily if I didn't use the term curly."

**
Loveygram, Aug 1, 2009, #35
"I never liked the word kinky because it's interchangeable with weird.

The word Nap actually comes from a description of wool or the downy surface of woven material.

Coil is something twisted into a spiral shap or a series of rings and an old form of the word means trouble.

Frizzy means hair that is tightly curled and the commercials say frizzies are something you should hate..

The english language doean't cut us any breaks on how we describe our hair or our color so I guess whatever you feel comfortable with using is the way to go :look:."

**
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009, #37
"music-bnatural-smile said:

'Lol I feel u boo I didn't want to say it so thankyou lol... "My curls popped" is an irritating statement to me lol just say ur naps look nice today lol, and they probably look great without the goo lol I think it looks better honestly I love 4b hair without slime in it, its got character... Its blackness... Something I always wanted as a mixed chickie'

[end of quote]

No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. :ohwell: Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair "blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it "blackness" sound like you're stereotyping."

**
Ajoyfuljoy, Aug 1, 2009, #40

"SEMO said:

'No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. :ohwell: Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair "blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it "blackness" sound like you're stereotyping.'

[end of quote]

My eyes glazed over that part. One of my loved ones is AA and her type is probably 1b or something. Her hair is barely wavy. And yet she isn't any less black than I am (well technically she has more European in her blood but you know what I am saying!)

Not every AA person has that highly textured hair. But I was referring to the highly textured hair in this thread.

And I hate to even call it an AA thing b/t I know that Jewish people have kinky coily hair too! The whole world is so diverse. But for the sake of this tiny thread I was just referring to AA with the coiliest hair...not saying that our loosely textured hair sistas are any less AA :)"

**
Netta 1, Aug 1, 2009, #48
"I refer to my hair hair as nappy, kinky, frizzy, and coily.

 ..and I don't think what people call their hair matters as much as their attitude about natural afro textured hair in general...

 least we forget that sometimes there are two transitions into the world of "napdom" the first is physical and the second is mental.."

**
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009. #49

"[quoting ajoyfuljoy's comment #40]

[end of quote]  

I know. ;) My comment/question wasn't directed at you. And maybe I'm too sensitive in this area. But having grown up in a predominantly white area, like music-bnatural-smile has said she did, I also understand how certain mentality's can inadvertently rub off on you (without you realizing it).

And her comment reminded me too much of the fake "compliments" that white people give sometimes when they really think they're better than you and are trying to "humor" you. Like, "your brown skin is so exotic and pretty. I hate how pale I am. I wish I was more your color." :rolleyes: Knowing good and well they would NEVER trade you places.

I'm trying not to put words in her mouth. These are just my impressions and could be way off base. That's why I asked about it."
-snip-
The word in italics is the way that comment was written in that discussion thread.

**
dynamic1, Aug 1, 2009, #53
"VirtuousGal said:

I think more of a question would be, how did the phrase kinky come about?"

[end of quote] 

From the term kink.

-a short or tight twist or curl caused by doubling or winding something upon itself or

-A tight curl, or bend in length of thin material, as one caused by the tensing of a looped section of wire. or

-a short twist, curl, or bend in a thread, rope, hair, wire, etc.

Kinky is not a negative word, unless one attributes having kinky hair as something bad or wrong.

Regarding the topic -what difference does it make if someone with tightly curled hair calls their hair curly. It is what it is. I use all three terms; and I have had my hair referenced as kinky, curly and nappy by others who embrace the terminology in a positive way.

Is this one of those "stay in your lane threads?" (i.e "my hair is curly..no it isn't..let me save you from your delusion, denial and self-hate)"

**
Carrie A, Aug 1, 2009, #56
"PiscesBlue10 said:

'Sooooo, what exactly is a curl, a kink and a coil?'

[end of quote]

Actually they are all synonyms. A kink is a shorter curl or bend. A coil and a curl are interchangeable terms.

Also, people with all hair types use finishing/styling products, it isn't a crime when kinky/curly/nappy naturals do it."

From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-3

1QTPie, Aug 1, 2009. #62
"It all means the same thing to me. Kinky, coily, curly, nappy."

**
music-bnatural-smile. Aug 1, 2009. #69
"SEMO said:

'No offense but, this post rubs me the wrong way. :ohwell: Especially since you are 3c (as noted in your siggy). How is 4b hair "blackness?" Are those without it less black? Calling it "blackness" sound like you're stereotyping."

 [end of quote]

That was like a childhood thing... Pople hounded me for having my hair thats all...

I'm not stereotyping but the world stereotyped me as "white" for my hair... thats why I wanted 4b hair cuz I thought then ppl would leave me alone...

its not my personal opinion, just a previous reaction I had from an experience in the past

don't be rubbed wrong we all have pretty hair"

**
SEMO, Aug 1, 2009. #71
"[quoted comment #69 from music-bnatural-smile]

[end of quote]

I understand. Thanks for responding. I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I just know, from personal experience, how living in cerain environments can mess a person's mind up when it comes to certain things."

**
Priss Pot, Aug 1, 2009, #72
"I call my hair kinky curly, but most times I just say kinky. Doesn't bother me any."

**
bablou00, Aug 1, 2009, #73
"I just call it what I feel like that day. If it looks curly its curly if it looks nappy and kinky its nappy and kinky. I have hair all thru out that has a so called "curl" pattern but mostly my hair is dominanted by 4b coils, curls, kinks, naps, etc....its just hair! IMO"

**
Shandell. Aug 1, 2009. #77
"I am a 4b/a with some coils in the front and back when it dries it does not look curly it looks like black cotton with sporadically placed coils. Someone saw may hair today and said, "she needs a perm quick." I looked her in the eyes and smiled. LOL. Trust me they were not considering my hair 'curly' either or they would have never been bold enough to express their ignorance. My hair is considered 'nappy' but I call it 'natural'"

**
Junebug D, Aug 1, 2009, #79
"It's all the same to me. :) Though when I am being descriptive, I would generally call type 3 hair curly and type 4 hair coily, kinky, nappy. Nappy is not a negative word to me."

**
Austro-Afrikana, Aug 1, 2009, #90
"I don't say curly, wavy, kinky, coily and definitely not nappy (i think it's rude). I've always just said that i have afro hair, simple."

****
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-4

Solitude, Aug 1, 2009. #91
"Austro-Afrikana said:

'I don't say curly, wavy, kinky, coily and definitely not nappy (i think it's rude). I've always just said that i have afro hair, simple.'

[end of quote] 

Yeah, I've always liked "afro-textured" hair. That always seemed to be an accurate description of most of the hair types we discuss on this board."

**
Awesomely Nappy, Aug 2, 2009, #95
"Tom-A-to, Tom-AH-to

 Curl are Coils.

 so i'm getting that if you have small curls, its ok to call it coils. if you have small coils, its ok to call it kinks. if you like nappy, call it naps then. whatever....

 I call my hair what I call it depending on how it looks, how i feel... sometimes I call it brillo, a kitchen, a comb breaker, the don king... especially when I sleep on it without properly setting it the night before. I wake up to a terribly matted mess... oh, I also call it a mess some times... doesn't mean i think of it in a negative way or that I have issues when I call it what I call it on those days...

 I LOVE my hair. every nappy, coily, curl on my head. I love it, and the only thing I'd change is for it to be longer. I love it so much, I want more of it!!!

Sometimes I think its 4a, sometimes the front looks 3b. sometimes my curls "pop":rolleyes: (and why is "poping the curl" such a bad thing to say?), sometimes it looks like cotton candy. Sometimes its wavy, sometimes its very curly and defined. Sometimes it looks like a tangled mess, some times it looks like a coil-out. Sometimes its a mix of a lot of different textures and I think that my hair has multiple personalities.

I dont think less than(when I use so called bad words to describe it) or greater than (when I uses so called positive words like curly or 3-x) of my hair. When I describe it, its based on how I feel, how it looks and how my mood is (frustrated with detangling, goofy, happy, sad because its not doing what I want... excited when it does what I want...) what word my tongue picks out from my vocabulary that best describes what it is I see and feel on my head... shouldn't bother anyone...

I think that, yes, some folks have deeply rooted hair issues and may try to "talk up" their situation despite what our eyes see as reality... but not all people (knowingly) does that. if you say your hair has big 3 curls, when its really 4a coils, then maybe thats what that person really believes based on their interpretation on hair knowledge... few things-if not-nothing (to do with hair) is written in stone. There is no law that says 4a IS 4a or 3c IS 3c or that 4b cant have curls. most people on hair sites cant even agree on what each type really is (i still dont realllllly know my own hair type)... perception is a beast! But I wont get upset if someone :rolleyes::nono::perplexed at me for me calling my "cottony" hair "curls" instead of "kinks" or if because I have a 1x1 cubic inch of a patch of 3a "curls" hair behind my ears, so I call all my whole head of (4b "coils") hair 3b... if thats is what I believe. to each their own. (ignorance is bliss, and maybe I just wanted to be happy that day!:grin:)

All I know is, I love my hair... and it goes by many names!”…

**
song_of_serenity, Aug 2, 2009, #103
…."As for RECLAIMING the word "nappy?" While I have no problem with anyone using the word, come on. RECLAIMING a word that was FIRSTLY used as a negative thing? What? Reclaiming negativity? I'm not going to recycle some idiots insult to me and "spin it" to make it positive. We aren't short any words in this abundant english language that I can't steal massa's word and use it for myself, ie "nig**r" and all the varieties of it. UGH.

I personally have a problem with the word nappy because, like many others have iterated on this post, the word has not historically been used in a positive manner to describe textured or ethnic hair. I'm sure it's not completely the same, but "reclaiming" the word to me is like trying to reclaim the word ni**er as something positive. I know my comparison is in the extreme, but it is how I feel. I feel very strongly about this.

To say that I should maybe call my hair nappy because that is what it is is like closing a huge window filled with sunlight just to make sure I am in the dark again for the satisfaction of someone else. I am not trying to "pass" with my hair, and I am sure no one else here is either. African American hair comes in so many textures, and for people who have struggled with loving their hair...well....to learn how to take care of it and to find that there are curls there - no matter how small or loose - only to be told that they should embrace terms that may not fully describe their hair...well..."
-snip-
This is the way this comment was written on that discussion thread.

**
melodies815, August 4, 2009, #104
..."I don't know...I feel like someone is trying to take something precious from me, something I have gained from hours and days of reading and washing and conditioning and doing all that we know now to do to have hair in its best health and, therefore, appearance.

I don't like that feeling at all. No one has the right to tell me that if I call my curls curls that I am deluded or deceived. I am not. Now, to be clear, the sides of my head are more tightly coiled than the top and back, but I still can see tiny curls there without working at it.

This morning, my husband rubbed his fingers through my hair and told me..."Your hair is amazing. I never knew it looked like this..."

I didn't say this of myself. Someone who loved me said it...and he said it having previously thought my hair was "nappy." There was NOTHING positive about his former ideas about my hair.

If someone calls their hair curly, I think it's because it is...whether those curls are tight or loose...and I think we have all gained a tremendous education being here on this board. I would hope that no one would want to take away the gains we've gotten through being educated on our hair just to "keep it real" or to lessen anyone's irritation about which terms we use. What is even more interesting to me is that ethnic hair continues to change in appearance as it grows. As we saw earlier, what might appear to be kinky when short might actually prove to be curly or wavy when long...

(I would prefer the term kinky to nappy. I find kinky to be a beautiful term.)

(Last thing: I did not want to even post here because this thread troubles me deeply for reasons I cannot yet fully understand. I think I want to say thank you to the OP, but I'm not sure yet...) :perplexed:ohwell:"

****
From https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/why-the-desire-to-use-the-word-curls-in-reference-to-kinky-natural-hair.387468/page-5

nappi, Aug 3, 2009. #121
"i always say my hair is nappy or kinky because that is the texture

 to describe 4a/b as curly is wrong in my opinion"
-snip-
This commenter is a Black male [based on his profile photograph.]

**
BonBon, Aug 3, 2009. #124
…"At the end of the day if a Black woman 4a/b is natural and looks in the mirror and says "I love my my hair, I love these little curls", is it really any different than saying little kinks, coils, napps??

The pont is this person loves their natural hair full stop. Regardless of what they call it they are natural and choose to remain naturals against BW beauty norms."

** 
Cherokee-n-Black. Aug 3, 2009, #128
…"As people have said, coils are curls anyway

 [...]

In response to the original post, however, "kinky" and "nappy" have gained acceptance in recent years. I'm sure there are plenty of us who remember a time when calling someone's hair nappy or kinky would be an insult. And more to the point, in most cases, they are curls, tightly coiled or curled, but curls nonetheless. I have no problem referring to "kinky or nappy" hair as curly, but since "curly" has so many variations, if people are o.k. with saying "kinky" and "nappy" then it gets closer to the point. But after seeing this post as an example of "kinky," I have to say, maybe the perception's not as universal as I thought. LOL"

**
Oasis, Aug 3, 2009, #131
'Me calling my hair nappy is not me trying to take back or reclaim the word or make it positive.

My hair is nappy.*shrugs* There is just no other way to describe it."

-snip-
This is the way this comment is written in that discussion thread.

****
Cherokee-n-Black, Aug 3, 2009, #132
"Morenita said:
'@ Cherokee: Yeah, you'd be surprised. My hubby is from PR, and he used to call my hair nappy/kinky before I schooled him.'

[end of quote]

Oh yeah...well, that's a whole 'nother discussion re: The perception of some Black Spanish speakers! LOL. I guess I should have said I'd be surprised if someone AA thought that was "kinky" or "nappy." It's funny though, I always thought growing up, "nappy" meant "uncombed." "

**
Nonie, Aug 3, 2009, #133
"I say nappy or kinky because that precisely describes my hair, but I have no problem with the word curly either, because kinks and naps are nothing more than tight curls.

In other words, all kinky/nappy hair is curly but not all curly hair is kinky/nappy. What makes hair kinky/nappy is how tight/small the curls are.

My kinky/nappy hair: Behold the tiny curls that look like coils and behave like springs when stretched."
-snip-
The bold font in the way those words in this comment were written in that discussion thread.

**
Nonie, Aug 6, 2009, #139
"Poohbear said:

'Some kinky hair is curly. It's just not a loose curl. A coil is a form or type of curl. When someone says their hair is curly, it does not always mean loosely curled like a type 3 or type 2. If it's not straight, it's curled. Even a wave can be considered a curl.'

[end of quote]

Thank you!

I think the word kinky confuses people because when they first learned it, the hair that was being described as kinky didn't appear curly to them so it's hard for them to shake that "deduced definition" off. But if you look up the definition of the word, you will see that kinky is definitely curly with one condition: the curls must be tight and not loose.

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Tightly twisted or curled: kinky hair.

Encarta Dictionary: full of tight coils

Meriam Webster: closely twisted or curled

Wordsmyth: having tight twists or curls, as hair."

****
DISCUSSION THREAD #2
From https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair What's the Difference between Kinky & Curly Hair?

10-17-2010, 10:19 PM #1, SweetDarkChocolate
Location, Houston

"I always wanted to know the specific difference between the two. If someone would place explain it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...

-Aug 2010: Last Relaxer

-Oct 2010: Micro Braids

*Currently Transitioning"

**
10-17-2010, 10:30 PM #2 alethean
Location, Michigan

"When referring to curl pattern: straight is nonexistent, wavy is looser (than curly or kinky), curly is tighter, and kinky is even tighter. The size of an individual curl tends to be smaller in kinky hair than in curly hair. I can't be positive where the line from curly to kinky is. All I know is mine is definitely kinky because not only are the individual curls no larger than a pen spring, they don't clump together to make a "defined" curl pattern, with or without curl defining product.

But other than that, I can't tell you, because some hair I would still call curly, others would call kinky. And my sister would categorize all non-straight hair "curly." Idk."

**
10-17-2010, 11:14 PM# 3 MommieDearest
"Hmmmmmm I kinda think that the distinction between curly and kinky hair is arbitrary. Some people have a problem with the term "kinky" or "nappy" in reference to hair. They will use the term "tightly curled" or even "tightly coiled."

I define curly hair as hair that has very little or no frizz, and curls on it's own without a curl definer, and curls even moreso WITH a curl definer. As alethean stated above, curly hair "clumps."

I define kinky hair as hair that has frizz, does not curl on it's own without a curl definer and does not REALLY "curl" with a curl definer. Kinky hair does not "clump."

I define my hair as kinky or nappy. Curl definers do not make my hair "clump." When I want to do a wash-and-go, I'm better off using regular conditioner, leaving it in and giving my hair a vigorous shake. My naps form into little tiny coils or "slinkies" that are kinda cute. ;-)"

**
10-17-2010, 11:16 PM# 4 CinnamonBiscuit
"Kinky hair is just curly hair with a much tighter or more extreme curl in each strand."

**
10-17-2010, 11:21 PM #5 dessertfirst
"It will vary according to each person. For me curly hair is a looser curl pattern with more strands per clump of curls which gives it more weight. Kinky hair to me is light hair with tiny curl pattern or zig zag, and less hair goes into each clump which makes it shrink and frizz. My mom who's African calls it curly, my dad who's bi-racial calls it nappy. Most days it truly looks like both simultaneously."

**
10-17-2010, 11:27 PM #6 GalaxyGirl2012
"i dont think there's going to be a general consensus but from my understanding kinky just means anything that isn't straight, so that could be wavy, curly, or z shaped."

****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page2

10-17-2010, 11:43 PM  #11 MS-gg
Location - Natural Hair Heaven

"Kinky=nappy. Kinky can be nappy curls or frizzy loose curls. It is hair that is wild and not uniformed.

 Curly=non nappy to most people although I tend to believe that curly hair can be coily hair as well.

 Coily=nappy and kinky, just a tighter curl pattern and not a loosely curled pattern.

 
Even my definition is subject to change though

Last Relaxer March 23 2006, BC Sept 26 2006"
-snip-
Relaxer= Chemical hair straightener/perms; BC= Big Chop = getting relaxed hair cut off to go natural.

**
10-17-2010, 11:49 PM #12 Napia Mia
"Personally, I don't buy into nappy hair being smaller version of curls. See my blog post http://nappyme.wordpress.com/2009/11...he-word-nappy/ where I responded to a young lady who admonished me for using the word "nappy" to describe my hair.

I think the word curly just makes some people feel better about having nappy hair. The word curly seems to be a safer, more politically acceptable way to describe nappy hair in the off line world and around the Internet as well. Saying nappy hair is curly to me is a way for folks with nappy/kinky hair to not feel as if they're any different from someone who has larger, naturally curls. It's like they're saying "see, my hair is no different than yours...it's just a much, much much smaller curl." Uhhh...yeah...whatever.

Kinky hair is coiled and/or a mixture of irregularly sized coils, loops, and bends. In many instances you can have all that happening on individual strands all over your head. Folks with uniform coils are likely to have clumps that show themselves off in a defined way. The folks like me, with all the irregularities will have what's commonly called 4B hair.

And adding to this, to me there's a distinct difference between a curl and a coil [photographs inserted]

So I'm hard pressed to see why folks with nappy hair want to call their hair curly. But that's just me... I don't look at my naps and see "curls"; I see kinks and that's fine with me.

Now I realize this will not be a popular opinion, but eh...there it is."

**
10-18-2010, 02:06 AM #14 LBellatrix
"Kinky = no pattern / irregular pattern

Coily = small pattern (coils) that may or may not be visible from a distance

Curly = larger pattern (curls) that are usually visible from a distance

I have kinks and coils. The coils show more when my hair is short (like right now). The kinks take over as the hair grows."

**
-18-2010, 03:24 AM#17 meraki
…"When I think about my hair, the words "nappy" and "curly" come to mind most often. I don't think that's a contradiction in terms. "Coily" is more accurate than "curly" for my hair. But for me, that's 'hair board' talk that hasn't entered my head yet regularly as a way to think about my hair.

I rarely talk about my hair outside of NP. If black people talk to me about my hair, they tend to use the word "curly." I don't use any descriptor. If I'm talking about my hair with people who aren't black, I'm likely to say something like "because my hair is so/very/extremely curly..." They know what a curl is, and I don't use "nappy" and "kinky" with people who aren't black. Hey, that's me.

Considering all the issues we have about hair and all the 'curl definition' pursuit we see, I'm sure that some people use the word "curly" to run from the reality of their nappy hair. But I don't think I do. I don't think I have Carrot Top curls, and I'm not fooling myself or anyone else about what my hair looks like. I'm using the words that make sense to me.”
-snip-
"NP"= nappturality.com discussion forum

****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page3

10-18-2010, 10:31 AM #22 Denny
Location - London, U.K

"I would not use the work 'kinky' as a hair descriptor either, its a cultural thing kinky in the UK has nothing do with hair so its not a question of being in denial. Use whatever term suits your cultural/social environment, (in the UK nappy is what babies wear).

So for me outside of this board my hair is extremely curly or cottony."

**

10-18-2010, 05:55 PM #27 Princess Pamplemousse
…"the various connotations behind the words "kinky" or "nappy" don't change the sentiments behind this post. Lots of black people do call their hair ~curly~ so as not to seem too different from the white folks.

To people living outside of the US: are curly, wavy and straight the only words in your lexicons that categorize hair? Before I started visiting e-boards, I had no idea black people from anywhere called their natural hair curly"

**
10-18-2010, 06:55 PM#28 Kayin
"Originally Posted by Electra
'To people living outside of the US: are curly, wavy and straight the only words in your lexicons that categorize hair? Before I started visiting e-boards, I had no idea black people from anywhere called their natural hair curly'

[end of quote]

I don't use the word "curly" to describe my hair as my definition of curly is much the same as Nappy Me's. From what I can tell that is also the sense in which other Caribbean people use the word.

In referring to my hair "natural" would be the word used. I don't know a lot of Caribbean/WI people (at least outside of hair boards) who try for a further breakdown. In fact in my experience the word "natural" refers to people sporting a specific type of natural texture, what would probably be classified as type 4 hair. If you are sporting the type of hair shown in Nappy Me's photos you would be described as having curly, not natural, hair.

As for "nappy", never heard it growing up in connection with hair. Like Denny, nappy for me was a noun referring to a baby's diaper (in my case I heard it used to refer to cloth as opposed to disposable diapers). The only Caribbean person I can recall using the word "nappy" to describe hair is Tanya Stephens (Jamaican reggae artist) in one of her songs. I'm presuming her usage is due to American influence?

****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page4

10-19-2010, 12:05 AM #31 moriahsuperstar
"Quote Originally Posted by Denny
'Because we all don't live in a country where the word 'nappy' is associated with hair.'

[end of quote]

"I agree.

 Also, I've just always thought of the word "nappy" as a very derrogatory term, a sister of the other "n" word because that is always the context in which it has been used. So I just continue not to use it at all in my vocabulary."

**
10-19-2010, 11:02 AM#33 beautifulleo
"I usually describe my hair as curly. I use the term nappy and kinky interchangeably.

Transition date: April 2007"
-snip-
"transition date" = date changed from relaxed (straightened, permed) hair to natural hair

**
10-19-2010, 02:39 PM #36 cg1
Location - Baton Rouge [Louisiana]

"I am not a fan of that word either... I dont see anyone's hair as nappy. I think i prefer tightly coiled over kinky too.

Just BC'd 10/1"
-snip=
BC= Big cut [had hair cut off that was permed to go “natural”]

**
10-19-2010, 02:55 PM #38 naturally yours
"i consider my hair kinky curly because i have type 4a which is in the kinky category but my curls clump define without product."

**
10-19-2010, 04:25 PM #39 Denny
Location - London, U.K
"Quote Originally Posted by Electra 
'To people living outside of the US: are curly, wavy and straight the only words in your lexicons that categorize hair? Before I started visiting e-boards, I had no idea black people from anywhere called their natural hair curly '

[end of quote]

Well growing up my in my world my hair was just hair neither straight, curly, wavy or whatever and the words nappy or kinky were never used in relation to hair not cos they were considered bad words but they have different definitions in the UK (or did have). Growing up if I had to describe my hair to other people it would have been I had black or afro hair.

Black people with wavy hair were told she had that 'Indian' hair (the older generation would say she/he have 'coolie hair') - folks knew what type of hair you were refering to."

**
10-19-2010, 04:35 PM #40 Denny
Location - London, U.K

"I would consider afro type hair extremely curly hair. I have no problem with the new words (for me) learnt on NP that others use (coily, kinky, nappy etc). But to me if there is a curl spectrum - afro hair that tangles on itself are at the extreme end of it and hair like Halle Berry/Mariah Carey/Leona Lewis wavy hair/looser curls are at the other end. So IMO I don't see using 'curly' as a descriptor as a denial of the nappy, kinky,coily, cottony hair that we have.

The coil/napps/kinks strands whatever curls up don't they, it does lie straight. (Pull out a strand and look at it). Curls can range from hair that coils up to hair that slightly bends - they are all curls.

Until there is a black hair council that is elected to decide these things call it whatever you want lol"

****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page5
10-19-2010, 04:45 PM #42 ya~akua
"personally, i dont think that there is a difference between kinky and curly...its all the same to me...some people that ive come across prefer curly to kinky because they think that it sounds better...some black women that i know are offended by the terms kinky and nappy..."

**
10-19-2010, 10:43 PM #47gr2006
Location - Spring Lake, N.C

"In my opinion, kinky hair is curly hair, but the kinks are very, very small curls. I use coily, curly, and kinky interchangably. Even though my hair is 4b/4c, I see the tiny spirals, loops, and "z" bends that make tiny wave and curl patterns. From root to tip as I seperate my hair, I see the very, very tiny waviness and curliness of the strands.

I don't prefer the term nappy. It always reminded me of diapers. But people can use whatever terms they want at the end of the day. There's really no right or wrong answer when it comes to the opinions of coily vs. nappy vs. kinky vs. curly.

Kinky hair aka afro hair strands are highly textured. Sometimes you can actually feel it by running your fingers down a strand, the tiny crinkles that make up the strand. They are not smooth. It can definitely have curly or coily tendencies.

But for real, let's face it, IRL if a person describes so and so's hair as curly, people are going to automatically think of <insert NM's curlie girl pic here> hair, not afro textured curly hair. On hairboards we can attempt to claim our afro textured hair as curly but our hair isn't usually the first type of hair that comes to mind outside of hair boards and that's fine with me.”…

****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page6

10-20-2010, 10:09 AM #54 Denny
Location - London, U.K

"Quote Originally Posted by Electra 
'I guess...I don't see why there has to be a "curl spectrum". Curly hair is curly, nappy (black) hair is obviously something different, otherwise we wouldn't need all these qualifying terms when explaining that it's curly. Folks would just say--my hair is curly, instead of my hair is kinky-curly, coily-curly, tightly curly, small-y curly....It's like, you may as well say: All hair is hair...so there's no need to have words like curly, straight, wavy nappy, kinky, coily etc. anyway!

I think my question boils down to: Why can't black hair stand alone? Why is the definition of our hair confined within the limits of another type of hair? But re the bolded lol you're right their's no afro council (that I'm aware of) so..free for all.’

[end of quote]

Well I equate it to a colour spectrum most people in the African Diaspora are 'brown' however we are not all the same brown tone, some of us are technically not brown at all (e.g Vanessa Williams end of the spectrum) however we all call ourselves 'black people' without always qualifying our different brown tones.

Even tho we are as brown as the average Sri Lankan.

So to me just as are they are different tones of brown people within our community there are different types of curly hair. One can be a subset of a set without losing ones uniqueness."

**
12-17-2010, 04:50 PM #58 Chocolate CurlyGirl
"Personally I think kinky refers to TEXTURE, not curl pattern. One can have kinky and curly hair in my opinion. Not everyone with large curls has silky hair, so that wouldn't disqualify them as being curly. The diameter of the curl may be large but the texture may be kinky."

**
12-17-2010, 04:56 PM #59 Olahh
Location - Georgia
"U can have both. Kinky= a hair strand that bends and turns . Curly= a hair strand that forms a ringlet or O shape."

****
https://www.nappturality.com/forums/threads/133334-What-s-the-Difference-between-Kinky-Curly-Hair/page7

12-17-2010, 11:03 PM #61 MissNic
Location - London

"I have to agree with Denny and Kayin. In the UK amongst black people if your hair is unprocessed its called natural hair or afro hair. So i describe my hair as just being natural. If i had a silkier texture then it would be described as "coolie". however if you wanted to be rude you would call their hair "picky" particularlly if they had peppercorns even if their hair was processed"
-snip-
"processed" = chemically "relaxed", "permed", "straightened"

**
12-17-2010, 11:15 PM #62 Denny
Location - London, U.K
" 'Picky' have not heard that word in a looooong time lol, it was used in my circle for uncombed natural hair that looked unkempt/messy."

**
12-17-2010, 11:56 PM #63 mymy
"Quote Originally Posted by Denny 
" 'Picky' have not heard that word in a looooong time lol, it was used in my circle for uncombed natural hair that looked unkempt/messy.’

[end of quote]

My mom told me that this is a term that was used when she was growing up in GA."

**
12-18-2010, 06:46 PM #65 kuzucan
Location - washington
"Quote Originally Posted by Soul Rebel 
"Agreed. I work with hair nearly daily. Even with nappies with consistent curl patterns, the texture is usually *completely* different, and I have to treat the hair very differently.'

[end of quote]

Interesting! Thanks for discussing the distinction. I would consider my hair curly and kinky, but texture wise it is very soft. My man has this quintessential "baby" hair around the edges and wavy/kinky hair but his hair is very coarse feeling and the individual strands feel thicker and wider than my fine hair."

**
12-18-2010, 07:55 PM #66 NiceNapLady
"Both terms (kinky and/or curly) can be used to describe natural hair. I see it as a matter of how you view your own natural hair and what you've been taught to believe cultural environment wise (whether you think your hair or someone else s hair is kinky, curly).

Also...IMO if your hair stretches when pulled and bounces back once let go...then your hair is curly, or coily, or kinky, or all in the same.
-snip-
Commenter’s quote:
"I am my hair and my hair is me, God gave it to me the way he wanted it to be, so I am here now sporting it, for the rest of the world to see!" NiceNapLady

**
12-19-2010, 07:57 PM #68 candlowe
Validated and Nappified
Location - London

"Let me clarify the word "nappy" in the UK this word is used for what the Americans call "diaper". Thus we associate the word "nappy " with babies. So we don't use that word to describe natural hair. The older generation of Caribbean people would refer to someone who has "good hair" as "coolie" hair. So for me "coolie" is an insult and for me there is no such thing as "good hair" just healthy natural hair.

On the question what is the difference between "kinky" and "curly" that is a difficult question as with afro hair there can be so many textures on one head of hair. Also, people who are mixed race can also have kinky hair and some people who are not can have curls. Look at Somalies and Ethiopians and compare them to people who are Nigerians or South Africans. So to categorise people on the racial basis is misleading in itself."

**
12-19-2010, 11:37 PM #69 Crowning_Glory
Location - Alabama
"I think that kinky and curly can coexist or be totally separate. I see no reason why either would have to be exclusive. I generally just describe my hair as an afro or fluffy. But I also have kinky and curly hair. To me curly or coily just means forming a loop/circle and my hair does that. I'm not even sure what I think kinky is because I rarely think of it outside of nappturality but I'd say I think fluffy. Also since I think of curly/coily in terms of an individual strand and not a section of hair it definitely can apply to many of our natural hair textures. Because, if I see an individual strand pulled out of someones scalp and it forms little loops, coils or spirals I'm not going to say it isn't curly because it doesn't have another hair to clump with so coily or curly doesn't seem to have anything to do with definition to me."

****
DISCUSSION THREAD #3
From 
http://urbanbushbabes.com/kinky-vs-nappy-is-there-a-difference/ 

[The link to this article and its comments is no longer active.]

KINKY VS NAPPY: IS THERE A DIFFERENCE? Posted by Cipriana Quann 2/24/11[?]
"You have heard the hairnology of kinky and nappy thrown around the websphere, blogsphere, and forumsphere time and time again. Is there a difference in the connotation of the two and if so why?"

Comments:
1. Roxanne Millwood, 2014
…"I REFUSE to call my hair Nappy. I cringe when I hear the word, such negative connotations. Ewww........I don't even familiarize myself with natural hair sites if they have they word "nappy" apart of their site's name or blasted all over their page. I find it so degrading. Black hair is beautiful! It is "kinky" because you never know what the curl pattern will be..It's a beautiful surprise. :-) How can we call something beautiful and unique to its wearer "nappy"?? To take it a step further it is like using another word I dislike when describing "black" hair--"Good Hair" <--I don't like that word too! Looks like I ended up having a lot to say! LOL!!

**
Reply
2. Kodessa31 , 2014
"I so agree with the term " good hair" as being derogatory. It makes me cringe inside when ppl refer to good hair only being long and thick. Anybody's hair could be long and thick all you have to do is take care of it. This society and their choice of words! Tisk!"

**
Reply
3. 13ga, 2016
"kinky is just as bad a term as nappy"

**
4. Aiych, 2014
"I only hear nappy used pejoratively.  Also, my mom always uses it to describe her new growth in between relaxers, and not positively.  She will say something like "I can't stand when my hair gets nappy like this!", and I'm sitting there with my kinky fro like "ok take your complaints to God and maybe if you pray hard enough he'll cast that cursed nappy gene out of your DNA foreva hallelujerrr!"  -__- "

 **
5. ArialynnRose, 2014
"I've always used nappy to mean "tangled and knotted", whereas "kinky" simply refers to a person's curl pattern. So, in my usage, "nappy" could be used for any hair type -- even white people with a tangled and knotted mess on top of their head.

To use both of them in a sentence, I'd say, "I detangle my kinky hair on a regular basis in order to keep it from getting nappy."

So, yes, I see "nappy" and "kinky" as intrinsically different."

**
Reply
6. Monniej01, 2014
"there is a difference, in my opinion.  kinky refers to texture, where as nappy refers to a condition.  maybe it is just context, but i think nappy can be corrected.  in my mind it means hard, brittle, dry, matted or difficult to control.  with the proper maintenance and techniques nappy can be transformed.  kinky is the texture of the hair that grows out of your head.  jmho~"

****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.