Amplifying African American Influences On The Use Of The English language Words "Bro", "Br'er", "Bruh", "Bruhz", And/Or "Brah"

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a four part pancocojams series about the use of the words "Bro, "Br'er", "Bruh", "Bruhz" and "Bra" as referents (particularly in the United States).

This post presents excerpts of various internet articles and AI Overview write-ups about the use of those words. These excerpts are presented as a timeline. 

This timeline and the other posts in this pancocojams series strives to amplify the historical and cultural record as a way of helping to correct what I perceive to be the scarcity of details and/or the minimization of the tremendous role that African American culture has had and continues to have on the use of the words "bro" and "bruh" in American English and in the use of the English language throughout the world. 

Additions and corrections are very welcome.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/06/examples-of-omega-psi-phi-fraternity.html for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post showcases three YouTube videos of the historically Black Greek letter fraternity Omega Psi Phi, Inc. That post also includes selected comments from those video's discussion threads. Those comments document examples of the use of the words "brother", "bruhs",and "bruhz" by members of that fraternity and by other commenters..

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/06/uyleesboutique-april-2-2025-remember_0196860863.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. That post showcases two YouTube videos of the character Bruh-man from the 1990s television series Martin. Selected comments from the discussion thread for one of those videos of Bruh-Man are included in that post.

Click  https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/06/im-not-your-brah-bro-bruh-videos.html for Part IV of this pancocojams series.  That post showcases YouTube videos, information, and comments about the use of "bro" as a referent for females as well as males.

The content of this post is presented for historical, linguistic, and socio-cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all the sources that are quoted in this pancocojams post. Read the titles and links for some of those resources within this time line list.

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TIMELINE OF THE USE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE WORDS "BRO:, "BR'ER", "BRUH", AND "BRA"- 17TH THROUGH THE 2020s    

the late 17th century - late 18th century
"Though usage of bro as an abbreviation of “brother” can be traced back to at least 1660, conversational uses more similar to what we hear today begin cropping up in the mid- to late 18th century, according to lexicographer and Indiana University English professor Michael Adams. He points to the text of a 1762 burlesque play titled Homer Travestie, which includes the word bro several times. “That suggests maybe it’s low or underworld speech—a type of slang of the period,” Adams says. “Brother would often be shortened to bro in this period, in the same way that many names were radically shortened, so that William would be shortened to Wm. You just skip all the letters you didn’t really need to identify the person. So in casual correspondence, that was the way people referred to each other, and it may have migrated into speech.” [From https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/08/bro-slang-origins-history-and-overuse-suggests-the-term-may-not-last.html "The End of Bro: The term’s ubiquity may signal its demise." by Matthew J. X. Malady, August 13, 2014

**
1877
"The first documented use of "br'er" in print is in the 1870s, specifically popularized by  (White American Joel Chandler Harris starting around 1877. He incorporated the term—a Southern African-American vernacular spelling of "brother"—into written folktales in the Atlanta Constitution, later publishing them in the 1881 book Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings". [from AI overview #1]

**
the early 20th century
"Bro’s use as a simple abbreviation appears to have remained fairly consistent during subsequent centuries. But its slang usage really took off during the past 100 years or so as it gained popularity in the black community as a replacement for brother in conversation. (Use of the term brother in the black church, Adams says, can be definitively dated back to at least the early 20th century, though “that’s partly just the emergence of African-American culture into print, so it’s quite likely that brother associated with the church has a longer history. It just ends up not being recorded anywhere.”)" [From https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/08/bro-slang-origins-history-and-overuse-suggests-the-term-may-not-last.html "The End of Bro: The term’s ubiquity may signal its demise." by Matthew J. X. Malady, August 13, 2014]

**
the mid to late 20th century
"While the heavy use of brother by those participating in social movements during the 1960s helped propel bro into the realm of casual conversation among activists, its more broad ascendance into the pop cultural pantheon after that was mostly due to lots of white kids trying to seem cool by emulating black slang. As the 20th century advanced, first brother and then bro became progressively more common in black speech says Geoffrey Nunberg, a linguistics expert who teaches at Berkeley’s School of Information. “Then,” he adds, “like everything else in black English, it’s appropriated and reinterpreted both deliberately and unwittingly by other speakers.” [From https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/08/bro-slang-origins-history-and-overuse-suggests-the-term-may-not-last.html "The End of Bro: The term’s ubiquity may signal its demise." by Matthew J. X. Malady, August 13, 2014]

**
the late 1980s -the 1990s
"the Bruhs" used as a referent for members of the historically Black Greek letter fraternity Omega Psi Phi, Inc.
" There is no specific, universally agreed-upon calendar date or single archival document that historians cite as the absolute first time an Omega Psi Phi member uttered or wrote the colloquial term "Bruhs" (or "Bruhz").

Because the term is an informal, vernacular evolution of the formal title "Brother," its tracking requires understanding how it transformed from official records into the fraternity's distinct subculture:

The Formal Baseline: 1911
"From the very inception of the fraternity on November 17, 1911, at Howard University, the official and documented referent for a member has always been "Brother" (e.g., Brother Edgar A. Love, Brother Oscar J. Cooper). Every official document, from the original minutes of the Alpha Chapter to national conclave records, strictly mandates this formal title.

African American Vernacular English (AAVE) & Slang Evolution
The shift from the formal "Brother" to the colloquial "Bruh" or "Bruhz" is tied to broader developments in 20th-century Black linguistics rather than a top-down administrative decree:

Late 20th-Century Shift:

While "brother" has been standard since 1911, the phonetic spelling and specific stylized pronunciation of "Bruh" became widely recognized inside the fraternity’s campus subculture during the mid-to-late 20th century. This directly mirrors the timeframe when other distinct, informal cultural traditions (such as "hopping" and barking) became commonplace alongside the widely known external nickname "Ques".

Intra-Fraternity vs. Extra-Fraternity:

Informally, members refer to one another internally as The Bruhs (signifying an unbreakable, organic familial bond) while external peers frequently use "Ques" or "Que Dogs". 

Official Stance on Vernacular

Because "Bruhs" is considered an informal colloquialism, it does not appear in official esoteric rituals or constitutional mandates, which prioritize the formal, historic title established by the founders. However, the phrase is completely embraced in modern times, utilized heavily in chapter-level communications, step show chants, and official fraternity media channels." [from AI Overview #2-retrieved June 2, 2026 ]

**
"There is no recorded historical evidence or official citation that pinpoint a specific issue, page, or date where "Bruhs" or "Bruhz" made its absolute first print appearance in The Oracle.

 Because The Oracle (first published in Spring 1919) serves as the official, scholarly, and administrative journal for the "aristocracy of the Omega Psi Phi intellect", its formal publication standards have strictly guarded how language is printed. The trajectory of how these vernacular terms transitioned into the magazine reveals why a definitive "first date" remains elusive.

1.  The Strict Formal Standard of The Oracle
For the first several decades of The Oracle's existence (from the 1920s through the 1970s), editors maintained rigorous guidelines regarding fraternal nomenclature. Authors, chapter reporters, and grand officers were explicitly expected to use the formal title "Brother" (e.g., Brother Walter H. Mazyck or Brother Edgar A. Love).Slang variations were widely considered unpolished campus vernacular and were intentionally excluded from national, public-facing print. If a chapter reporter submitted a notes section using street or campus slang, it was typically scrubbed by the editorial board before publication.

2.     The Shift to Chapter Reports (Late 20th Century) When colloquialisms like "Bruhs" or "Bruhz" did eventually breach the pages of The Oracle, it did not happen via a formal cover story or a grand officer's message. Instead, it surfaced incrementally during the late 1980s and 1990s.

This inclusion happened via Undergraduate Chapter Reports. As the editorial tone shifted to accommodate authentic campus life, regional and local undergraduate chapters began incorporating their localized chants, step show lyrics, and casual greetings into their submitted updates (e.g., "The Bruhz of [X] Chapter have been working hard..."). Because these sections feature thousands of small text blurbs from across the country over many decades, historians have not isolated the single earliest printed typo or stylized submission.

Modern Official Legal Adoption
While its exact editorial debut remains an uncatalogued part of the fraternity's oral-to-written history, the modern era has seen total institutional acceptance:

Trademark Status
"Bruhz" is no longer just unwritten slang; it is an officially legally protected asset. Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc. holds registered trademarks for the term "BRUHZ" for apparel and organizational branding.

Modern Print & Digital Media
Today, the term is freely used across official fraternity digital campaigns, health initiatives (such as the Omega Training Camp tailored for "Bruhz"), and current digital issues of The Oracle. [from AI Overview #3-retrieved June 2, 2026]

**
1993-1995
"Bruh-Man" (played by comedian Reginald Ballard) is Martin Payne's eccentric, freeloading upstairs neighbor from the hit 90s sitcom Martin. Famous for his slow drawl, signature walk, and badly fitting clothes, he constantly sneaks into Martin's apartment via the fire escape to mooch food and lounge around

Key Characteristics & Lore
The "F-a-a-a-ah 'Scape": Despite living directly upstairs on the fifth floor, Bruh-Man almost never uses the front door. He uniquely enters and exits through Martin's apartment window via the fire escape.The Catchphrases: His most famous taglines include "Bruh-Man from the fifth flo'" and "Nuttin'... just chillin'".

The Math: He frequently declares he lives on the fifth "flo'" while holding up exactly four fingers...

Famous Mannerisms -Bruh-Man is beloved for his distinct Texas-inspired country dialect. He had unique pronunciations that became fan favorites, [such as] commonly referring to:Sandwiches as "sammiches"...[AI Overview #4-retrieved June 2, 2026 ]

**
the late 19th century to the 1990s
[This is the AI results for my query "Did White surfers and white fraternities'  use of the word "bro" come after black fraternities' use of the word “bruh?”]

"Yes. The slang use of both words is rooted in African American English (AAVE) and predates their widespread adoption by white surfers and collegiate fraternity members by decades.A breakdown of the historical timeline illustrates this evolution:Late 19th and Early 20th Centuries: The term "bruh" (and its earlier variant "brer") traces back to Black Southern dialects and folklore in the 1890s. By the early 1900s, "bro" was adopted in Black communities as a familiar title to address male friends and peers.

 A breakdown of the historical timeline illustrates this evolution:

Late 19th and Early 20th Centuries: The term "bruh" (and its earlier variant "brer") traces back to Black Southern dialects and folklore in the 1890s. By the early 1900s, "bro" was adopted in Black communities as a familiar title to address male friends and peers.

 Mid-20th Century: During the Civil Rights Movement, the usage expanded further within Black communities as a term of solidarity.

1960s – 1970s: White counterculture and youth subcultures (including Southern California surfers) adopted "bro" from Black slang. Surfers popularized the word and its variant "brah," embedding it into their culture.

 1990s: The stereotypical white "frat bro" or "surfer bro" archetype became cemented in mainstream pop culture (as seen in films like Encino Man), solidifying an association that had originated in Black culture decades prior." [AI Overview #5- retrieved June 3, 2026]

**
the mid 20th century
"In an earlier time, the term "bro" was actually used to refer to African-American men. Today, it's a term that refers to beer-chugging frat boys in Abercrombie cargo shorts. The good folks at Oxford explain how this happened.

[...]

What they [the Oxford blog] found was that the term "bro" used to refer to African-American men, a derivation of "brother." They write:

Bro’s meaning had begun to expand by the mid-20th century. It came to refer simply to a man (a synonym of ‘fellow’ or ‘guy’), or sometimes more specifically a black man. The rock critic Lester Bangs wrote in 1976, "if we the (presumably) white jass-buffs couldn’t get with it maybe it was only meant for the bros.

That usage of the word shifted in the ensuing decades, partly through the general appropriation of African-American culture. There were other reasons, too: One of the turning points they unearth is the cultural touchstone known as Encino Man:

By the 1970s, though, bro began to break new ground, untethered from brother. It came to mean not merely a guy, but a male friend. For instance, in the film script for the 1992 comedy Encino Man, the stage directions state: “Stoney and Hank have been bros since grammar school.”

It's been over 20 years since Encino Man was released in theaters. Today, as NPR pointed out, bros are predominantly white. Oxford explains that "by being the sort of person who says 'bro,' a person becomes a bro. In the immortal utterance 'don’t tase me, bro' it is not the person doing the tasing who is the bro, but the person being tased."…[https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/2013/10/how-encino-man-changed-race-bros/310146/ "How the Bro Became White" By Alexander Abad-Santos, October 9, 2013
-snip-
That excerpt is the end of the free portion of this article [for those who aren’t subscribed to the Atlantic.com.

**
from the 16th century to the 2020s
"Over many hundreds of years, a number of words have emerged that abbreviate "brother" including "bro," "bra" and now "bruh." The earliest evidence of an abbreviated use of "brother" is with the word "bro," used as early as the 16th century, said Jesse Sheidlower, former editor-at-large of the Oxford English Dictionary and an adjunct professor at Columbia University.

"Bro" usually came before "a man's name or to a character, especially the name of an animal," Sheidlower said. In African American folklore, we see "bro" being used in this way during the 19th century, especially in the Caribbean and Southern U.S., he said.

The first known use of the word "bruh" appeared much later, in the 1890s, according to Merriam Webster.

Back then it was being spelled "brer" and comes from the "Br'er Rabbit," a series of stories by Joel Chandler Harris, an American journalist and folklorist who wrote these stories from the African American oral tradition, Sheidlower said.

How has internet culture brought us to "bruh"

For a long time, "bruh" was put aside in favor of "bro" or "bra" (as surfers liked to call each other).

The use of "bruh" is a perfect example of how internet culture and especially TikTok, have transformed how people talk to each other, according to Brennan, who used to work at Know Your Meme, a website dedicated to documenting internet phenomena. [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/bro]

"I think 'bro' and 'bruh' are great examples of how words evolve over time and take their meaning so far away from what it used to be," Brennan explained.

[…]

It really began with the age of the 2010s meme culture, a far simpler time in our internet's history, when the use of "bro" became widespread. While "bro" can be used as a way to refer to a friend, the internet evolved its meaning to refer to a stereotypical frat boy and their style and culture as "bro culture," Brennan said.

Brennan herself wrote the Know Your Meme page dedicated to explaining the use of  "bro."

Phrases and memes like "U Mad Bro?" became a sensation and so did "Come at me, bro" (from Jersey Shore fame). And then you have, "Don't Tase me, bro!" a phrase plucked from a viral video of a University of Florida student begging security officers not to Tase him during a Q&A with then-U.S. Sen. John Kerry. (They Tased him anyway.)

A short-lived app called Vine, where users watched and posted 6 second long videos that played on a loop, brought us to "bruh," according to Cohen, the media studies professor.

Twelve years ago high school basketball player Tony Farmer collapsed after hearing his sentence in criminal court for kidnapping, assaulting and robbing a former girlfriend. A creator on Vine used this clip and put the sound effect of someone saying "bruh" as Farmer collapsed. As far as we know, that is the origin of "bruh" on the Internet, Cohen said.

[…]

"You could probably have a complete conversation with one word just based on how you use it. It can be despair or it could be excitement or it could be just a reference," he said.

Brennan added, "But the meaning is defined by everything happening in the moment around it, and it is a temporal word where I could say it five times a day, and each time could be like a different meaning of a sentence and it's just one sound."

Brennan had some advice for parents grappling with this new turn of phrase.

 "Don't be afraid of the slang. Just zoom out and think about how words are all made up by people, even the ones that aren't slang, and read your context clues." [https://www.npr.org/2025/06/25/nx-s1-5443929/bruh-meaning-explained-word "Brother to Bruh: How Gen Alpha slang has its origins in the 16th century", June 25, 2025 "Heard on All Things Considered" by Jaclyn Diaz

**
the 1990s to date (2026)
"The use of "bro" as a universal, gender-neutral form of address for females began to gain mainstream traction in the 1990s and 2000s, largely popularized by skate and surf culture. By the 2010s, it evolved into an everyday slang staple embraced by Gen Z and Millennials

The shift in language can be broken down into a few distinct phases:

1990s (Skate and Surf Origins): Terms like "bro," "dude," and "brah" started losing their strictly masculine definitions on the West Coast. Surfers and skaters began using these terms as casual, non-offensive greetings for anyone in their social circle, regardless of gender.

2010s (Internet and Meme Culture): With the explosion of 2010s internet meme culture, "bro" and its variant "bruh" went viral. During this era, it shifted from being a mere synonym for "fellow" to a versatile pronoun replacement used in place of an individual's name.

Present Day (Mainstream Normalization): Today, "bro" functions similarly to "guys." Rather than meaning "brother," it acts as a casual, friendly exclamation to capture someone's attention ("Bro, listen..."). It is widely used by women towards both male and female friends.

Why did this happen? Linguists note that the phenomenon is similar to how "guys" evolved to refer to mixed-gender groups or women. When a society lacks a casual, gender-neutral equivalent to address an individual, masculine-coded words are often adopted as a neutral default." [AI Overview #6-retrieved June 3, 2026]

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"No Kings (Again!)" – A Revolutionary Musical | The Founders Rise for the No Kings Protest (video & lyrics)

John D. Cundle, Oct 12, 2025  #PoliticalSatire #MusicalTheatre #FoundingFathers

🎶 “No Kings (Again!)” is a revolutionary musical number, reimagining the Founding generation rising from parchment and history to join the modern No Kings Protest.
Featuring Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson, and Angelica in a powerful Pixar-style cinematic world, this anthem blends hip-hop, gospel, and orchestral fire to remind us:

🕯️ Liberty was written in ink and blood — not in gold and crowns. ✨ ABOUT THE SONG: “No Kings (Again!)” was written as a satirical, theatrical, and educational piece — celebrating the spirit of democracy and freedom from tyranny. 🎭 Musical Style: Hamilton-inspired hip-hop theatre, gospel chorus, and cinematic orchestra 🎥 Animation Style: 3D Pixar realism — historical figures reimagined in modern protest settings 🎙️ Message: Democracy lives through courage, unity, and the voices of the people ⚖️ DISCLAIMER: This musical work is a fictional and artistic satire created for educational and entertainment purposes. It does not depict or endorse any real person, organization, or political group. All characters are stylized, historically inspired figures representing ideas, not individuals. The song advocates peaceful civic engagement and freedom of expression. 💬 Join the Movement: Share your own “No Kings” moment in the comments — what does liberty mean to you today? Use the hashtag #NoKingsAgain to show support for democracy and freedom of thought. This video follows all YouTube Community Guidelines and advertiser-friendly standards. It contains no hate speech, graphic imagery, misinformation, or targeted political content. 🕊️ “No Kings, No Crowns — Forever Free.” #NoKingsAgain #Satire #Democracy #Freedom #Revolution #Liberty #AmericanHistory #PoliticalSatire #BroadwayStyle #NoKingsProtest #EducationalMusic #FoundingFathers #MusicalTheatre

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcase the videos and the auto-generated transcript of the lyrics for the animated musical "No Kings (Again)".

The content of this post is presented for historical, political, socio-cultural, and motivational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to John D. Cundle and all those who are associated with this powerful and creative song and video.

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LYRICS FOR "NO KINGS (AGAIN) FROM THE AUTO-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT

[Printed without time stamps]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSy821UsSlM&list=RDrSy821UsSlM&start_radio=1

Transcript

"No kings! — we said it once before! We bled on the floor for that score!
Now I wake from the grave, and I can’t ignore— The crown’s back knocking at democracy’s door!

I wrote the papers, fought  the war, built the banks,
Now I’m watching monarchists rewriting thanks. See, tyranny’s trending, truth’s on decline,
They’re selling red coats on a party line.
We drafted the covenant — liberty’s clause, But now every con-man thinks he is the laws.

I fought King George III so you’d never kneel, Now wannabe emperors make freedom a deal.
I picked the pen for the people’s creed, But power’s a weed — it feeds on greed.
You crown one man “divine” again? Then light the fuse, my fiery friend.

Checks and balances? They’re bounced like cheques! And the throne’s in gold with a news-feed neck!
If “we the people” forget to shout, Then history’s whisper will fade right out!

No kings, no crowns, no golden rings! We built this house on mortal things!
Ink and blood, our sacred mix, Don’t trade it back for politics!

No kings — we mean it still, Freedom ain’t a tax write-off on the hill!
I walked away from power when I could’ve stayed.

That’s the oath of a patriot, not a trade. So hear me, citizens — don’t be afraid,
When tyrants tweet, march  louder than they parade.

I warned them — faction is the monarch’s twin! The mob gets drunk, the tyrant walks in!
History loops like a chorus line, So sharpen your quills — it’s protest time!

You want immunity? Nah, accountability! A president’s just temporary civility!
“Divine right” don’t trend in a republic feed — We spilled our blood so you’d read, not kneel!

No kings! No crowns! We stand unbowed! Raise your voice, raise your flag, raise it LOUD!
Liberty’s heartbeat drums again, The people rise where monarchs end!

No kings — our anthem’s still alive, Democracy ain’t a thing to survive — it thrives!
No kings! No crowns! Forever free! From Yorktown to D.C.!

From Boston tea to you and me! NO KINGS — THAT’S THE LEGACY!
History repeats when courage sleeps. Awaken, Republic — liberty keeps."

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What The Word "Knickerbocker" Means In The Children's Recreational Rhyme & Action Song "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine"

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest update- June 14, 2026

This is Part I of a three part pancocojams series on the English language recreational rhyme "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine" (and similar titles). 

This post presents information about the origin and meaning of the words "knickerbocker". "Knickerbocker  Number nine", and "Knicks" (the name of the National Basketball Team").

The Addendums to this post presents information about and examples of the phrase "number 9" in United States' culture and in British culture.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/examples-of-dr-knickerbocker-number.html  for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post presents some (word only) examples of the rhyme "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine".  

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/doctor-knickerbocker-number-9-videos.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. That post showcases some YouTube videos of the song/rhyme "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine".  

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The content of this post is presented for historical, cultural, and folkloric purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

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THE ORIGIN AND MEANING OF THE WORD "KNICKERBOCKER"
From https://www.nba.com/knicks/history/knickerbocker  NBA presented by Chase 

[This is a complete reprint from Chase Banks. No publishing date is given. I retrieved this post on Oct. 9, 2025.]

"The term "Knickerbockers" traces its origin to the Dutch settlers who came to the New World - and especially to what is now New York - in the 1600s. Specifically, it refers to the style of pants the settlers wore...pants that rolled up just below the knee, which became known as "Knickerbockers", or "knickers".

In 1809, legendary author Washington Irving solidified the knickerbocker name in New York lore when he wrote the satiric A History of New York from the Beginning of the World to the End of the Dutch Dynasty under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker. Later known as Knickerbocker's History of New York, Irving's book introduced the word "knickerbocker" to signify a New Yorker who could trace his or her ancestry to the original Dutch settlers.

With the publication of Irving's book, the Dutch settler "Knickerbocker" character became synonymous with New York City. The city's most popular symbol of the late 19th and early 20th centuries was "Father Knickerbocker", complete with cotton wig, three-cornered hat, buckled shoes, and, of course, knickered pants.

At the same time, the term "Knickerbocker" became indelibly linked to anything and everything New York...from Jacob Ruppert's Knickerbocker Beer to the 1938 Broadway musical Knickerbocker Holiday (which starred Walter Huston and featured the haunting "September Song") to famed society gossip columnists Cholly Knickerbocker (the nom de plume used by Maury Paul and Igor Cassini) and Suzy Knickerbocker (Aileen Mehle).

The Knickerbocker name had its first use in the sports world in 1845, when Alexander Cartwright's Manhattan-based baseball team - the first organized team in baseball history - was named the "New York Knickerbockers" or the "Knickerbocker Nine." The Knickerbocker name stayed with the team even after it moved its base of operations to Elysian Fields at Hoboken, NJ in 1846. (The baseball link may have prompted Casey Stengel to joyously exclaim, "It's great to be back as the manager of the Knickerbockers!" when he was named pilot of the newborn Mets in 1961).

Thus, the Knickerbocker name had been an integral part of the New York scene for more than a century when the Basketball Association of America granted a charter franchise to the city in the summer of 1946. As can best be determined, the final decision to call the team the "Knickerbockers" was made by the club's founder, the legendary Ned Irish.

The late Fred Podesta, the longtime Garden executive who passed away in 1999, once recalled, "The name came out of a hat. We were all sitting in the office one day - Irish, (publicity man) Lester Scott and a few others on the staff. We each put a name in the hat, and when we pulled them out, most of them said Knickerbockers, after Father Knickerbocker, the symbol of New York City. It soon was shortened to Knicks."

In keeping with another New York tradition, the team's colors have always (except for the years from 1979-80 through 1982-83) been orange, blue and white...the official colors of New York City.

So now you know."

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WHY WAS THE 'KNICKERBOCKER NINE" AN EARLY NICKNAME FOR NEW YORK'S KNICKERBOCKER BASKETBALL TEAM?
From https://hooptactics.net/premium/basketballbasics/bb8rulesevolution.php
"Originally, there was no set rule on the number of players. The idea was that the game could be played by any number of players. However, that did not work out. After experimenting with teams up to 50 players, early games were primarily played by nine players on each side - the reason being that 18 students showed up for Naismith's class. In 1897 five players became the mandatory team size."

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WHEN WAS THE SONG/RHYME "DOCTOR KNICKERBOCKER" (ALSO KNOWN AS 
DOCTOR KNICKERBOCKER NUMBER NINE" FIRST DOCUMENTED?
from AI Overview
"The exact historical origin and first documented print date of the "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine" folk rhyme remain unrecorded, as it originated as an unauthored, oral schoolyard clapping and jump-rope chant. However, its cultural pieces and modern commercial releases provide a clear timeline of how it developed:"...
-snip-
This write-up continues with history about the New York Knickerbockers basketball team and indicates that "The song ["Doctor Knickerbocker"] achieved massive global fame when it was covered by the Australian kids' group The Wiggles on their May 2008 album You Make Me Feel Like Dancing.
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/doctor-knickerbocker-number-9-videos.html for Part III of the pancocojams series on "Dr. Knickerbocker" children's rhymes for a 1973 sound file of a version of that song that was sung by African American children from the Gullah culture of St. John's Island, South Carolina.

This may be the earliest documentation of that song/rhyme.

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ADDENDUM #1- SOME OTHER EXAMPLES OF THE PHRASE "NUMBER NINE" IN AMERICAN CULTURE

QUOTE #1 - "CLOUD NINE"
From https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2iy68n/eli5_where_did_the_saying_im_on_cloud_nine_come/ "Where Did The Saying "I'm On Cloud Nine Come From?" 
[deleted], 2014
"Whenever a phrase includes a number, like the whole nine yards, at sixes and sevens etc., then attempts to find its derivation usually focus on the number. 'On cloud nine' is no exception. A commonly heard explanation is that the expression originated as one of the classifications of cloud which were defined by the US Weather Bureau in the 1950s, in which 'Cloud Nine' denotes the fluffy cumulonimbus type that are considered so attractive. Another explanation is that the phrase derives from Buddhism and that Cloud Nine is one of the stages of the progress to enlightenment of a Bodhisattva (one destined to become a Buddha).

Neither of these explanations holds water. To begin with, both the cloud classifications and the Buddhist stages to enlightenment have ten levels. To single out the last but one stage of either is rather like attributing the source of the 'whole nine yards' to American Football, where it is ten yards rather than nine that is a significant measure. Also, the fact that nine is far from the only number that has been linked with clouds, argues against those origins. Early examples of 'cloud' expressions include clouds seven, eight, nine and even thirty-nine.

It seems that it is the clouds themselves, rather than the number of them, that were in the thoughts of those who coined this phrase. The imagery was originally of a 'cloud cuckoo land' or 'head in the clouds' dreaminess, induced by either intoxication or inspiration, rather than the 'idyllic happiness' that we now associate with the phrase. The early references all come from mid 20th century USA and the earliest that I've found is in Albin Pollock's directory of slang, The Underworld Speaks, 1935:

"Cloud eight, befuddled on account of drinking too much liquor."

'Cloud nine' comes a little later, for example, in The Oxnard Press-Courier, August 1946:

"I think he has thought of everything, unless the authorities pull something new on him out of cloud nine."

Around the same period we find clouds seven and thirty-nine, in The San Mateo Times, April 1952 and Ross’s Hustlers, 1956, respectively:

"Mantovani's skilled use of reeds and strings puts this disc way up on Cloud Seven."

"That stuff is way up on Cloud Thirty-nine."

The early favourite was 'cloud seven' and many of the oldest citations use that form, as in this piece from The Dictionary of American Slang, 1960, which was the first printed definition of the term

"Cloud seven - completely happy, perfectly satisfied; in a euphoric state."

This early preference for seven as the significant number may have been influenced by the existing phrase 'seventh heaven'.

Since the 1980s or so, 'cloud nine' has become predominant. That has probably been influenced by the use of 'cloud nine' in popular music - George Harrison adopted the term as the title of his 1987 album and, more notably, The Temptations' 'psychedelic soul' album of the same name, in 1969."

****
QUOTE #2 - 'SOUL SISTER NUMBER 9" 
From AI Overview (as a result of my October 13, 2025 Google Search question "What does Soul Sister #9 mean?")  
"Soul sister number nine" means a "superlative soul sister" in playground rhymes, suggesting the person is the best of the best. The phrase combines "soul sister," a term for a close female friend, with "number nine," a spiritually powerful number that represents enlightenment, universal love, and completion. The implication is that she is an exceptional soul sister with the highest qualities.

Soul sister: Originally used to describe a Black woman, the term has evolved to mean a close female friend who deeply understands you and shares a deep connection, similar to a soulmate but without a romantic connection.

Number nine: This is considered a spiritually significant number across many cultures and religions, symbolizing completion, spiritual enlightenment, universal love, and inner strength.

"Number nine" in rhymes: In the context of playground rhymes, "number nine" is used to show a superlative or exceptional quality. It's a way of saying that the person is the ultimate or the best."
-snip-
Click https://cocojams2.blogspot.com/2014/11/soul-sister-number-9-in-childrens.html for the 2014 post " "Soul Sister Number 9" In Children's Playground Rhymes". Here's one example of the words "Soul sister number 9" in children's playground rhymes:

"I'll be. be
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gawa. Un-gawa {baby}
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said it, I meant it.
I really represent it.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me down.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me out.
I'm sweet, I'm kind.
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree.
I'm a Castle Square Black
Don't mess with me."
- John Langstaff, Carol Langstaff Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!, A Collection of City Children's Street Games & Rhymes {Garden City, New York, Double Day & Co; p. 57; 1973} 

-snip-
Another widely known children's recreational rhyme that includes the phrase "number nine" is "Engine Engine Number Nine". However, in that rhyme, it appears that the words "number nine" are the train or trolley's name and don't refer to how exceptional that train or trolley is. 

Here's an excerpt from a page that features several examples of the rhyme "Engine, Engine Number Nine" 
https://www.firstcry.com/intelli/articles/engine-engine-number-9-nursery-rhyme/  "Engine Engine Number 9 Nursery Rhyme For Kids" by Angela Naik, November 19, 2022
"Here’s the most popular version of the Engine Engine Number Nine poem used by kids to pick an ‘It’:

 Engine, engine number nine,

Going down Chicago line,

If the train goes off the track,

Do you want your money back?

Yes, no, maybe so!

 

Y-E-S Spells Yes And You Are It!

 

Or

 

N-O Spells No And You Are It!"   

****

ADDENDUM #2-  THE USES OF THE PHRASE "DOCTOR'S ORDERS NUMBER NINE" IN BRITISH CULTURE

From https://www.reddit.com/r/wiggles/comments/1bn1fhb/dr_knickerbocker_9/

r/wiggles

Proof-Creme-1133, 2024

Dr. Knickerbocker #9

Music

What is the meaning of this song and the significance of the number 9 can someone explain?""

**

Past_Cut_7986, 2025
"In the uk we say “doctor’s orders, number 9” during the game of bingo. A doctor asks you to say “nine” while they check your tonsils as it moves your throat just right. Maybe Dr Knickerbocker is asking to look in peoples throats 😂"
-snip-
The first commenter in that discussion shared information about the first basketball team in history- New York City's Knickerbocker Nine".

****
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Visitor comments are welcome.

The History Behind The Children's Recreational Rhyme "Benjamin Franklin Went To France" (with commentary, information, video, and examples)

HistoryPod, October 25, 2023

Franklin was a notable figure in the Continental Congress and was one of the Committee of Five that drafted the Declaration of Independence. At the time of its signing the Thirteen Colonies and Great Britain had been at war for more than a year, and the Patriots were in need of foreign support. France had already been secretly providing weapons and other essential equipment to fight the British, but a more formal agreement was desirable. On October 26, Franklin departed for France as commissioner for the newly-named United States. Accompanied by his 16-year-old grandson who served as his secretary, his primary aim was to secure essential diplomatic and financial support. Franklin's tenure in France, which lasted for nearly nine years, was marked by significant achievements. He was quickly welcomed into French society, and forged connections with important government officials. However the French Foreign Minister, Comte de Vergennes, was unwilling to formally commit to the American cause until Washington’s victory at the Battle of Saratoga in October 1777 demonstrated that the United States had the potential to win. On February 6, 1778, France formally allied with the American colonies when they signed the Treaty of Amity and Commerce and the Treaty of Alliance. This alliance brought much-needed military aid, including troops, naval support, and supplies that eventually led to the American victory at Yorktown in 1781. Franklin later negotiated and signed the Treaty of Paris which formally concluded the seven-year struggle. **** Edited by Azizi Powell This pancocojams post presents historical information about the American historic figure Benjamin Franklin. This post also presents an example of the English language children's recreational rhyme "Benjamin Franklin Went To France" and my theory that the history of Benjamin Franklin in France inspired and/or preserves a portion of that history. The Addendum to this post presents examples of variants of that rhyme that substitute another famous person's name for the name "Benjamin Franklin". The content of this post is presented for historical and recreational. and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Benjamin Franklin for his legacy. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the producer and publisher of this embedded video.

**** PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE The mission of this pancocojams blog is to document and share aspects and examples of African American and other Black cultures throughout the world. However, this pancocojams post, and some other pancocojams posts about children's recreational rhymes and children's singing games shouldn't be construed to mean or suggest that these showcased rhymes originated with Black people. One connection to Black culture and this post exists because undoubtedly some Black children have chanted and performed movements to this rhyme. Another connection to Black culture exists because I'm a Black American woman who is interested in collecting, researching, and sharing English language children's recreational rhymes from the United States and/or from other nations. **** INFORMATION ABOUT BENJAMIN FRANKLIN from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
"Benjamin Franklin (January 17, 1706 [O.S. January 6, 1705][Note 1] – April 17, 1790) was an American polymath: a leading writer, scientist, inventor, statesman, diplomat, printer, publisher and political philosopher.[1] Among the most influential intellectuals of his time, Franklin was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States; a drafter and signer of the Declaration of Independence; and the first postmaster general.[2]"... **** ARTICLE EXCERPT ABOUT BENJAMIN FRANKLIN IN FRANCE From https://www.history.com/news/benjamin-franklin-france "Ben Franklin in Paris: How He Won France’s Support for the Revolutionary War"

As colonists faced tough odds in the Revolutionary War, America's first diplomat worked his charm to win France's vital backing.

By: Dave Roos, March 20, 2024
"The Founding Fathers may have been idealistic about Enlightenment principles like “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness,” but they were deeply realistic about the chances of a scrappy, underfunded colonial army to defeat the wealthy and powerful British Empire.

To win the Revolution, America needed allies, but more importantly it needed manpower, munitions and a lot of money.

That’s how 70-year-old Benjamin Franklin—famed inventor, publisher and elder statesman of the Continental Congress—found himself sailing to France in October of 1776. Although a monarchy itself, France was America’s best hope for backing the colonists in their bid for freedom from Great Britain, France’s perennial rival.

Franklin spent the next nine years in Paris as America’s first foreign ambassador. Without Franklin’s celebrity status, savvy networking abilities and unapologetic Francophilia, the American Revolution would almost certainly have failed. Instead, Franklin convinced France to nearly bankrupt its own government in order to ensure American independence.

[…]

A Celebrity on a Secret Mission

In accepting his mission to France, Franklin put his life on the line. Not only was the Atlantic crossing treacherous for all of the normal reasons—stormy seas, shipboard illnesses, piracy—but Franklin was also sailing as a traitor. By signing the Declaration of Independence just months earlier, Franklin would have been hanged if captured by the British Navy.

Franklin survived the arduous journey—his seventh trans-Atlantic crossing—and arrived in Paris as a bona fide 18th-century celebrity.

“Franklin was the most famous American in the world,” says biographer Stacy Schiff. “He was the discoverer of electricity, a man of genius, a successor to Newton and Galileo. He also counted among the greatest celebrities in Paris; he could not walk through the street without attracting a crowd.”

Franklin’s unmistakeable image—wearing glasses and a fur cap instead of a wig—was embossed on collectible candy dishes, stitched into clothing and engraved into snuff boxes and walking sticks.

[…]

While Franklin himself was famous, most French people knew nothing about the American Colonies or their politics. Even foreign ambassadors stationed in France had no idea why the famed scientist had come to Paris.

[…]

Bluffing His Way to an Alliance

For his first 18 months in Paris, Franklin was in a difficult position. The Continental Army suffered a string of defeats and it wasn’t at all clear that the Americans had a fighting chance. Versailles was quietly supportive of the Revolution, but the French crown couldn’t risk backing the wrong horse and getting ensnared in another losing war with England.

So Franklin did something that his younger American colleagues found incredibly frustrating—he played the waiting game. Now in his 70s, Franklin had little to prove and was in no hurry to prove it. Instead of banging on the door of the French foreign minister, the Count de Vergennes, Franklin attended salons with influential aristocrats and engaged in a very French, very laissez-faire charm offensive.

[…]

Franklin lived a type of double life. To outside observers, he was the quintessential cultured French gentleman, the type who arrived appropriately late for appointments and greeted unexpected guests with wine and unrushed conversation. But in private, Franklin put in 14-hour days, often waking in the middle of the night to finish piles of paperwork.

Franklin was so good at making hard work look easy that he fooled even his American colleagues into thinking he was more interested in flirting with French widows than laboring for the Revolution.

[…]

“Nothing could have been more critical to our Revolution than that affection,” says Schiff. “Every other American envoy who approached Versailles bungled along the way. Franklin was inventing the foreign service out of whole cloth. And he was, as we know from so many other realms, a brilliant inventor.

Franklin was almost 80 when he crossed the Atlantic a final time and returned to a Philadelphia he hardly recognized. America had changed immensely in the nine years he was laboring abroad, and that included a new generation of politicians. Franklin had hoped to receive some compensation for his difficult mission—as others had—but Congress didn’t want to dwell on the debt America owed to France.

"The French mission had been, hands down, the most taxing assignment of Franklin’s life,” says Schiff. “Congress never offered a settling of accounts, a reward, or so much as a single syllable of thanks.”

****
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN WENT TO FRANCE [children's rhyme]
Benjamin Franklin went to France

To teach the ladies how to dance.

First the heel, and then the toe,

Spin around and out you go.

https://globaltoynews.com/2023/04/18/jump-rope-chants-are-they-becoming-extinct/

Jump Rope Chants; Are They Becoming Extinct?

by Global Toy News Posted on April 18, 2023
-snip-
The words for the children's rhyme "Benjamin Franklin Went France" are very stable with no changes. For instance,  the original (?) words "spin around" are used in every example that I came across on the internet instead of "turn around".  Also, I haven't found any extensions (usually consisting of lines from other stand alone rhymes) that are added to the words for the basic "Benjamin Franklin Went To France" rhyme.  The lack of variant words for the basic rhyme and the lack of extensions are very unusual in contemporary (1960s on) English language children's rhymes. Notice the differences in the three examples of "Charlie Chaplin Went To France" that are showcased in this post's Addendum.

****
ADDENDUM- "CHARLIE CHAPLIN WENT TO FRANCE" AND SOME OTHER VARIANTS OF THE RHYME "BENJAMIN FRANKLIN WENT TO FRANCE"
I haven't come across any authors for these "__ Went To France" rhymes or any documented date for when any of these rhymes were first chanted. I'm guessing that "Benjamin Franklin Went To France" is the original title of these rhymes because the history of Benjamin Franklin's role as "party going" celebrity in France explains the words of this rhyme. That's not the case with the other celebrities whose name is given in their versions of this rhyme. .   

****
The following quotes are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only. 

QUOTE #1
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skipping-rope_rhyme
…."For a line of potential jumpers, the jumpers were restricted on time by the length of the chant. They jumped in at the beginning, jumped out at the end, and the next jumper took their turn.

Charlie Chaplin went to France

To teach the ladies how to dance.

First the heel, then the toe,

Then the splits, and around you go!

Salute to the Captain,

Bow to the Queen,

And turn your back on the Nazi submarine!

In another version, the teacher is "Benjamin Franklin."[7] In the Charlie Chaplin rhyme, the child jumping had to follow directions as the rope was turning: touching the heel of one foot on the ground; touching the toe of the same foot on the ground; doing a (short) split of the feet, turning around, saluting, bowing, and jumping out from the turning rope on the last line. This rhyme, c. 1942, reflects children's awareness of World War II.[3][4]

An Australian version of the Charlie Chaplin Skipping Song, as sung at Salisbury Primary School in Brisbane, Australia in the mid 1950s, is as follows:

Charlie Chaplin went to France,

To teach the ladies how to dance,

First he did the Rumba,

Then he did the twist,

Then he did the Highland Fling,

And then he did the splits.

There's also "Betty Grable went to France,/To teach the soldiers how to dance." (The rest is the same.)"

****
QUOTE #2

From  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rucp0rWs4pU&t=163s -@janetgrooms6377, 2021
CHARLIE CHAPLIN WENT TO FRANCE

"Charlie Chaplin went to France

To Teach the girlies how to dance.

A heel, A toe, around we go!

Salute to the Captain and Bow to the Queen,

And touch the Bottom of  the Submarine!

****
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Why Is Country Music Considered White Music? (2019 Huffingon Post video, article excerpt, & video comments)

HuffPost. Jul 16, 2019

Country music was born out of the black American experience. And yet, while black artists from Beyonce to Lil Nas X have written important country songs, country music is still considered by many to be mostly a space for white artists. Exploring the complicated racial legacy of country music reveals why the genre often goes from being a musical form to a vehicle for difficult conversations around race and identity.
-snip-
No reader comments are shown with this 2019 article.

****
Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube video about Country Music in the United States that was published by Huffington Post in July 2019.

An excerpt of a July 2019 Huffington Post article on that subject is also presented in this pancocojams post.

The content of this post is presented for historical, socio-cultural, and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Huffington Post for publishing this article and this video. Thanks to all those who were associated with this article and this video. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this pancocojams post.

****

ARTICLE EXCERPT: WHY IS COUNTRY MUSIC CONSIDERED SO WHITE

Country music is deeply rooted in the black American experience, and yet the genre hasn't quite lost its original racial designation.

By Isaac Himmelman, July 17, 2019

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/country-music-black-artists_n_5d2de760e4b085eda5a25516

..."Music scholars often acknowledge the black musical influence on country music chords, pointing out things like the African origin of the banjo and the genre’s deep roots in blues music.

[...]

“Country music is a stand-in for a lot of conversations that we are too often afraid to have, or even when we want to have them, we don’t necessarily have the language to do so effectively,” said Charles Hughes, a music scholar and the director of the Lynne and Henry Turley Memphis Center at Rhodes College.

For example, when Beyoncé performed her song “Daddy Lessons” at the 2016 Country Music Association Awards alongside the Dixie Chicks, she faced backlash from some country fans who called into question her country bona fides. This further sparked the conversation around which artists get to call themselves “country,” and perhaps more to the point, which artists don’t.

“A lot of folks really celebrated [the CMA performance], not just as a really cool example of what country music could sound like, but also as potentially a symbol of the changing — or, at least, loosening — boundaries, in terms of who and what gets to be country,” Hughes said. At the same time, “the moment created that same old anger that we’ve seen too often about ... what country music is supposed to represent in terms of race, in terms of gender, in terms of a certain kind of identity.”

Country music’s association with white identity goes back not just to the beginning of country music, but to the beginning of musical genre itself, Hughes said.

Starting in the 1920s, at the dawn of the recorded music industry and at the height of the Jim Crow era, record companies began marketing genres like gospel and blues specifically to black audiences as “race music” or “race records.”

“The record industry marketed and promoted and created a language about the music from the beginning, and this continues through this day in some way, in which whiteness is, if not on the surface, then right below it.”

- Charles Hughes, music scholar

Meanwhile, white audiences were sold country music — or, as it was originally called, “hillbilly music.” The genre was musically and thematically rooted in the black American experience, and yet, it “was very explicitly thought of as being the music of white southerners or white folks who had recently moved out of the south into northern or western cities,” Hughes said.

Despite the work of black country artists like Charley Pride or Ray Charles’ seminal country album “Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music,” the genre has never quite lost its original racial designation.

“The record industry marketed and promoted and created a language about the music from the beginning, and this continues through this day in some way, in which whiteness is, if not on the surface, then right below it,” Hughes said.

Still, there is reason to believe the genre could be changing. A new crop of diverse artists, including Jimmie Allen and Kane Brown, are making waves on the country music charts.".
-snip-
The bold font was used in that article.

****
SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO'S DISCUSSION THREAD

Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VIRtikKEnw&t=477s

1. @_Peremalfait, 2020
"If you listen to early recordings of blues and country there's very little difference one from the other except for the race of the musicians. So that's probably your answer right there. Segregation. Black and white musicians borrowed from one another all the time, listening to each other over the radio, but were not allowed to play together or collaborate."

**
2. @vr6535, 2020
"Buna I wrote my senior thesis on the origins of country music. Country was folk and brought of by slaves on the ships; and your right the blues melted with the mountain folk (hillbillies) who played banjos in south. It eventually evolved into Opry style and influenced Tejano music in Texas/Mexico. It’s all combines :)"

**
Reply
3. @damuni1,2020
"@vr6535  So based on your research for your senior thesis, did Irish, Scottish, English and Welsh folk music had minor influence in the development of country music compared to African folk music? Or how would you allot the percentages of influence?"

**
Reply
4. @_s827, 2020
"@damuni1  hi, I play early country music ("old time music", the Appalachian fiddle and banjo stuff and ballad singing that evolved from the Irish music you're excited about). Country music was developed from fiddle/banjo stringband music after the coming of recording companies and radio in approx the 1930's.  That fiddle/banjo music is absolutely a hybrid of European and African music styles and instruments, and absolutely no one (except ignorant angry people on the internet in 2020) disputes that. 

The most important and unfortunate part of the story of that music is that when recording companies arrived on the scene, they artificially segregated Southern music into white "hillbilly music" (the name for country before they called it country) and "race records" (blues and  everything else related to folk music played by Black people). Eventually Black fiddling and banjo playing died down substantially due to lack of support from the recording, radio, and entertainment industry. There is ENDLESS oral history from musicians of all races from the South that indicates that the removal of Black musicians from the 'country' category was artificially induced by the recording industry that eventually created country music."

**
Reply
5. @shepglennon8760, 2022
" @damuni1  it's also important to note that AP Carter, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, and Jimmie Rodgers, the first and second generations of country music Mt Rushmore, all were mentored by Black artists."

**
Reply
6. @shepglennon8760, 2022
"Dead Bear, if it's so Celtic then why did AP Carter and Jimmie Rodgers, Hank Williams Sr and Johnny Cash all have Black mentors?"

**
7. @veridicusmaximus6010, 2020
"It's considered so white because that is who the majority musicians are - Duh!"

**
8. @sunflowerz54, 2021
"Oh for Pete sake have you ever heard of Charlie pride!!!"

**
9. @majesticalshimmer6105, 2021
"Dude country music isn't tied to race i know many black folks who love country music"

**

10. @k.8297, 2022
"Black people and old timers in general HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN that COUNTRY MUSIC WAS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN INVENTION! Once again, white americans who seek to white-wash american history WILL ALWAYS DENY THIS TRUTH, but we KNOW OUR HISTORY and country WAS NEVER WHITE to begin with, but was APPROPRIATED like everything else in America! Was not Elvis' "Hound Dog" ORIGINALLY Recorded by Big Mama Thornton A BLACK WOMAN back in 1952? Elvis was singing the COVER SONG of a black woman the ENTIRE TIME, but they LET YOU THINK it was originally his... Black and Indigenous People of America KNOW OUR HISTORY! Do you know yours???'

**
11. @NoBody-pf2nv,2023
" "You can't talk about music without talking about race." What nonsense.

Why is it always that "educated" scholars at university have to conflate race and identity with the very things that unite us all the most? There is nothing to gain from it.

The only thing it allows is for is the justification to force a group of people to hate themselves or their ancestors and be sorry for something they have no control over.

Disliked."

**
Reply
12. @DaRegime, 2023
"Literally the entire society we live in was founded and groomed on the basis of race and identity. Everything done/most of the things we have today was influenced by black people in some shape or form. This is NOT to say White folk aren't talented and don't contribute because they are/absolutely do contribute, and I would never discredit them. But thats literally the point, white people in these mediums have erased the black identity, or rather DNA, and claimed it as solely their own. That's the issue. That's always been the issue, and it should not be forgotten/not discussed so easily. Have nothing but love for you, but these types of videos need to be out there and people have to stop being so angry when faced with the truth."

**
13. @gregcager2, 2024
"Black people already know country music came from us my grandfather loves him some lightnin hopkins and if u listen to him u can't get  no country than that it just the record company call it the blues, country music to me it just the white  man blues and like everything in America especially back then  blacks start something whites redo it call it something else rock and roll and country music have there foundation in the blues.

**
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