Dave and Ava - Nursery Rhymes and Baby Songs,
-snip-
Total # of views as of April 15, 2022 at 12:08 PM EDT - 13,152,270
****
Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post showcases the 2015 Dave & Ava YouTube video of the "Five Little Monkeys Jumping On The Bed" song and rhyme.
This post also includes selected tweets from Dave & Ava's twitter account that were published from 2015 to March 2022. Those tweets focus on Dave & Ava's "Five Little Monkeys" cartoon and some other Dave & Ava cartoons in which Black people are stereotypically drawn as monkeys (or monkeys are stereotypically drawn as Black people).
In addition, this post reprints all of the comments to date that were posted to my 2014 pancocojams post entitled "The Racist Roots Of The Five Little Monkeys Chant" https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-racist-roots-of-five-little-monkeys.html
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note:
That the Dave & Ava cartoon channel is based in Ukraine isn't central to the issue of that cartoon company drawing Black people as monkeys. However, it does point to the fact that racism exists in the Ukraine, just as racism exists throughout all or most nations in the world.
That said, I support Ukraine in the war that Russia started.
****
SELECTED TWEETS
From https://twitter.com/daveandava/status/662206166676537344?lang=en
@daveandava
Nov 5, 2015
🐒 NEW! FIVE LITTLE
MONKEYS🐒
Every kid can confirm: it’s more fun to jump on the bed than
to sleep in it!
[The Dave & Ava "Five Little Monkey" video is attached to this tweet.]
**
ItsZaib
@iSpeakTheTrut13
Oct 16, 2016
Replying to
@iSpeakTheTrut13
and
@daveandava
When u see a representation of a symbol thats been used to
justify hate, it heightens sensitivities
**
ItsZaib
@iSpeakTheTrut13
Oct 16, 2016
It's too easy to dismiss it when you've never been forced to
deal with that perspective.
**
Brenda Niani
@niyanibibs
Mar 31, 2020
Replying to
@iSpeakTheTrut13
and
@daveandava
@ann_kinz
did you notice too ?
I just googled out of curiosity and boom !!
**
Laura Holmes
@LauraMHolmes87
Oct 31, 2016
Replying to
@daveandava
our job is to prepare our children for the world & teach
history & mistakes that were made. "If" a cartoon offends you
(cont)
**
Laura Holmes
@LauraMHolmes87
Oct 31, 2016
Replying to
@daveandava
(cont) or your child. That's when you teach your child
what's right and wrong. I honestly think they did a good job to (cont)
Laura Holmes
@LauraMHolmes87
Oct 31, 2016
Replying to
@daveandava
(cont) cover up the fact that most nursery rhymes were
created in an ignorant time of the world!
**
Roamtowngirl 🌻💔🇺🇦
@roam_town_girl
Jul 2, 2019
....said the white woman. Wow, you can’t sweetly candy coat your way out of a case of abject racism. It is sad that you tried.
Irene
@aireen233
Nov 23, 2016
You're not alone. I was shocked at the imagery in some of
their videos too. Disappointing.
@daveandava
**
RC
@rnc0909
Nov 28, 2016
Replying to
@daveandava
@JerzPaisana Yep. I noticed this too when my kiddo was
watching this. Disappointing.
Across Madrid Walking Tours
@AcrossMadrid
Jun 22, 2017
I am not comfortable with the monkey family being the only hybrid creatures in these cartoons. They are offensive. Oh and am Caucasian btw!
**
Across Madrid Walking Tours
@AcrossMadrid
Jun 22, 2017
Replying to
@daveandava
Am absolutely disgusted by the BLATANT racism and objectification of black people in these cartoons. They are not acceptable whatsoever.
Angus Bearn
@angusbearn
Oct 1, 2017
Replying to
@daveandava
I'm puzzled why there are white kids, but a family of black
monkeys. That doesn't look very 2017 to
me! All human or all monkeys better?
**
Kizito
@leeryda
Nov 8, 2017
Replying to
@daveandava
@CayIhejieto
please read the
comments to this tweet. You might want to discontinue playing
@daveandava
due to this racist
angle
Ryan Merritt
@GotMerritt
Dec 21, 2017
Replying to
@daveandava
Wow-White guilt is prevalent in this thread. Okay guys, calm
down. Your baby doesn’t know anything about racism,YOU are the one w/ the guilt
One That Got Away
@OneThatGotAway7
Nov 9, 2018
No, it is people like the creators of Dave & Ava who
guarantee that parents will never let their children forget that racism hasn’t
died in society; it is now reinforced through toddler cartoons. SMH
Kumo 😷🇺🇸
@Kumo_1865
Jun 5, 2018
Replying to
@daveandava
I came across this while trying to look up info on Dave and
Ava. My children love your youtube channel! Thank you for providing quality
entertainment when it seems to be sparse on that website with mostly those
silly toy reviews. Both you and Blippi
have the two best channels!
@teejaywrites
Jul 16, 2018
Replying to
@daveandava
This video is abhorrent. Do I really need to explain why? Here goes: I guess this white Christian mom sees the whitewashed reality- this is blatant racism. Not okay.
IZON Bayelsa
@Loxodonta
Jun 18, 2018
Replying to
@daveandava
There is clearly intentional racist coding happing in some
of these videos. My 2yo pointed at the
female monkey and exclaimed to my absolutel horror 'mommy'. She doesn't know anything about racism but
it's clear in her mind that these creatures are more human than simian.
Grumpy Owl Momma
@owl_momma
Jan 13, 2019
Replying to
@daveandava
I was really enjoying your channel, until this clip showed
up. Not okay. It's very racist.
@HighlanderMc
Apr 20, 2019
Replying to
@daveandava
I just googled Dave and Ava racist to see if I was the only one paranoid enough this but indeed it is racist if more than one person is feeling bad about it and noticing the same hypocritical one sided depicting of other humans in monkey yes it is racist...
Leighton Smith
@Leighto55299924
Jun 12, 2019
Same here bro. I found some of the references very uncanny... so i decided to do a google search and it auto completed
**
Roamtowngirl 🌻💔🇺🇦
@roam_town_girl
Jul 2, 2019
Replying to
@daveandava
Blatantly racist and shameful. I too saw it once and immediately went online to find out if I was the only one who thinks so. I CLEARLY am not. We will never watch your programming again and I will tell as many as I can about this. SHAMEFUL!!!!
**
Roamtowngirl 🌻💔🇺🇦
@roam_town_girl
Jul 16, 2019
Replying to
@daveandava
Still have racist images I see. I have told all the moms and grandmothers I know about this and they are in agreement. My grandson now says , “the bad one” when your show comes on. We can’t change it fast enough.
Cree Quaker
@CreeQuaker
Aug 8, 2019
Replying to
@daveandava
Absolutely racist - I was pretty shocked to see this.
Djsharp
@Djsharp7
May 28, 2020
Replying to
@daveandava
Yes was loving the songs until I noticed that everytime anyone of color was depicted on here they were monkeys. Clearly its not just monkeys when the doctor and mother was a monkey as well and no other kids on the show are black until you see the monkeys
**
Sally Redondo Padilla
@RedondoSally
Jun 18, 2020
Replying to
@daveandava
I just watched at my granddaughter's house. She is not even 2, and I was sickened at the racism. It is BAD! It needs to be removed, not still playing for years!
B Johnston
@ethenyj
Jun 25, 2020
Replying to
@daveandava
@YouTube
I'm shocked that you're still allowing this to be shown on your platform after a number of people have confirmed it to be triggering.
@daveandava
what's your response?
**
Leah Gallo
@leahgallophoto
Jul 4, 2020
Replying to
@daveandava
This is totally a racist portrayal, down to the hair styles. Not ok!
Rajat Gupta
@RajatGu91767352
Dec 20, 2020
Replying to
@daveandava
Shocked that these videos are still up. Maybe not intentional but given recent conversations totally not appropriate, especially being a children's cartoons. You guys need to review all Monkey videos you have up on YT. My child will not be watching anymore Dave and Ava videos.
**
Emma Berg
@emma___berg
Mar 30, 2021
Replying to
@daveandava
I had this on for my child to watch and was in absolute disbelief how blatantly racist this is. Having this on was a #parentfail. If you don't see the similarity between the imagery here and that of racist imagery of the Jim Crowe era, you're in denial of your own bias.
**
VE
@Virgo2Abangboom
Apr 3, 2021
Replying to
@daveandava
I just saw a sickening D&A clip where five monkeys who are clearly representing Africans (hairstyles, clothes) steal apples and bananas from the white kids and run away. The white kid makes the wp sign and says “OK”.
@daveandava
you aren’t fooling anyone
@hellandreason
Apr 30, 2021
I like how every few months someone else finds this thread after searching about how Dave and Eva is insanely racist.
Rose
@stilwtrrunsdeep
Jun 16, 2021
Replying to
@daveandava
@daveandava
should be removed from YouTube it is VERY racist. Especially this monkey family who is clearly portrayed as a black family. This is very bad for children. Your company should be ashamed!
Netta🖖🏽💫
@the_plug151
Aug 6, 2021
It’s 2021 and it’s still insanely racist
**
Katie
@KcRobinson81
Sep 16, 2021
I just watched this episode and was shocked. I googled as well just to make sure I'm not insane. It was BLATANT
**
Cynthia Sammi
@cyndiiloop08
Sep 18, 2021
Replying to
@daveandava
VERY offensive
Latino Privilege
@JuNic7586 Dec 31, 2021
Dec 30. 2021.
Yep. Still racist.
Sarai Juelz
@saraijuelz
Jan 22 [2022]
Replying to
@daveandava
I googled to see if anyone felt my sentiments after just seeing this cartoon for the first time after Finger Family came on… My daughter will NOT be watching this. My mouth was twisted up the whole time and they have the nerve to have the boy monkey in a basketball uniform
Kerisha
@Kerisha4truth
Mar 21 [2022]
Replying to
@daveandava
Yeah it’s the hairstyles for me that rang alarm bells and I had to confirm this with my husband. There’s a monkey in cocomelon and it looks like a monkey but this is blatantly suppose to be black family. Never watching this again!
COMPLETE REPRINT OF COMMENTS FROM THE PANCOCOJAMS POST "
http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-racist-roots-of-five-little-monkeys.html
These comments are given in chronological order except for replies. I added numbers for referencing purposes only. Thst post indicates that there are 56 comments. However, according to my count, the total number of comments is 55 and not 56. My counting may be off as I believe that I have included every comment in that discussion thread (except one that I added giving the link to this post).
In July 2017 I congratulated Dave & Ava's channel for the changes in the way that they drew Black people that some commenters had brought to my attention and that I saw when I viewed a couple of their cartoons. (comment #37 below).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzAh_yDUIRE
This is what prompted me to publish that pancocojams post on that topic.
Thank you so much for posting this and sharing it with the world! I am 46 and honestly don't ever remember hearing any version at all of the "ten little monkeys" song during my own childhood, but the song popped up on a favorite children's website of my son. Unfortunately for us, it disappeared suddenly, and because my son is autistic, it was incredibly difficult to reconcile him to its loss. It was only after contacting the website moderators that we learned that they had taken it down after learning it had racist roots. I went researching and found your site! I wasn't sure what to do, as my son loves the song and likes to sing it, etc. I really do not want him to inadvertently offend people by singing it in public, but teaching him about this kind of social complexity right now is challenging. Anyway, it was so nice to find this terrific information and hear your very thoughtful ideas on the subject. Thank you!
Nyx Qualls,
Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your concern. In my opinion, even though "Five Little Monkeys" has racist roots, it can be enjoyed by children and still sung in public.
There are lots of "Five Little Monkeys Jumping On The Bed" videos on YouTube. I think that the racist connotations of this song occur when the monkeys are drawn to look like some Black people.
As a non white parent I have been quite appalled by the more recent depictions of the so-called 5 little monkeys being made very much in the image of black people. I think this is no accident at all. I feel that black and non-white parents as a whole should really monitor the usage of these so-called youtube nursery rhymes paying particular attention to the imagery being used (e.g. Depictions of black people as criminals, monkeys, wolves etc). It has been my experience that these utterly racist depictions normally occur near the middle of the longer (say 50 minute) runs of nursery rhymes and they are easy to miss unless you are sitting with the child and looking at the screen with them. It is depressing to watch such horrible Jim crow style programming being wrapped into a sweet modern looking format. As a parent of color I feel that these nursery rhymes can be used to promote white supremacy in a very deceptive way. I thank the author of this blog for pointing out the origins of some of these seemingly harmless songs. This has been a constructive dialogue.
Thanks anonymous for your comment. And you're welcome.
As a grandmother of a two year old, I've also experienced what you wrote about racist depictions of Black people occurring in long series of nursery rhymes and other children's songs. And I agree that those depictions would be missed if an adult wasn't sitting with the child and watching the screen with them. I offer this series as an egregious example: Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed | Nursery Rhymes Collection | Nursery Rhymes Dave and Ava https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oaMuB4qQDM
And although I usually LOVE chuchu TV's children's series
(and my granddaughter loves those videos too), I dislike their version of Five
Little Monkeys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWO9uP_VJV8
In addition to what I believe are negative racial depictions, I'm also concerned with some versions of "Five Little Monkeys" which show the other monkeys laughing when one of them falls out the bed and bumps his or her head.
I can't find the version of "Five Little Monkeys" that I used to show my granddaughter (who I regularly babysit). There are so many other good YouTube videos for children that I've not replaced that video with another Five Little Monkeys video that I would consider acceptable.
Ms. Powell,
Thank you again. This is very constructive and informative. Hopefully more people can be made aware so that we can guard against some of the stereotypical programming that seems to perpetuate itself across generations. It really seems like the nursery rhyme monkey imagery on YouTube could fall right in line with some of the minstrel type imagery of the late 1800's.
Again, thank you for the information, discussion, and helpful links.
You're welcome, anonymous.
I thought about publishing a post that includes examples of what I consider to be contemporary racially stereotypical children's cartoon animations, but instead I've decided to focus on presenting some historical and contemporary examples of positive Black culture.
Best wishes!
How in the world is This Racist do you think you're monkeys what how silly
With regard to my comment to Nyx Qualls dated February 13, 2016 at 2:12 PM,
I should have written "drawn to look like stereotypical images of Black people" instead of "drawn to look like Black people".
9. Azizi Powell February 23, 2016 at 9:48 AM
I found the version of "Five Little Monkeys" that
I show to my granddaughter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1NcLZBZ1k Five
Little Monkeys | Family Sing Along - Muffin Songs
Also, the monkeys don't laugh when one of them falls off the bed.
If you know other animated examples of that song that you like, feel free to share them.
10. JeremyMarch 5, 2021 at 2:48 PM
Dear Azizi Powell,
In this video I hear the sound of chittering laughter each time a monkey falls out of the bed. On another note, the monkeys seem to be gendered by their clothing, for example, a monkey with a pink bow on their head, but the lyrics refer to the monkey "bumping his head".
I must respectfully disagree with the claim that this song has been sufficiently corrected as it still maintains "little monkeys" in place of the other offensive words used to refer to Black children, since this wording is entirely within the tradition of racist words used to dehumanize Black children. I would argue that any single-word attempt to correct this song is likely to be insufficient, because it cannot hope to reckon with the long racist history of the song. Paraphrasing Angela Davis, I would argue that it's not enough for us to make a non-racist form of this chant - we must make an anti-racist version. Perhaps something like...
"Five white supremacists on their pyramid,
One not white enough they had to get rid,
People called a protest and the people said,
Let's tear down this racist pyramid!"
The song could go on to detail some other ways that white supremacy excludes people and creates hierarchies of power and control, such as perfectionism (not perfect enough), purity (not pure enough), strength (not strong enough), etc...but perhaps this isn't quite enough. I note that it shows that white supremacists are eliminating people that don't conform to their philosophy, but the people are effectively waiting for the white supremacists to eliminate themselves while just shouting to tear down the pyramid. I would like to depict the people in a more powerful active role in undermining white supremacy and racism. Any thoughts?
Thanks for your comment, Jeremy.
I choose not to make any other comments about any "Five Little Monkeys" video or that rhyme.
12. Molly Stern CoachingAugust 19, 2016 at 6:52 PM
I'm so glad I'm not the only one watching Dave and Ava and thinking oh my gosh they are portraying the black family as monkeys! Totally unacceptable!!
Hi Molly.
So I'm not the only one who thought this, un?
And I liked watching a few other episodes of that cartoon with my pre-school granddaughter- until I began to watch that one with her and saw the way they depicted Black people . After that- the entire series is off the list of which cartoons my granddaughter can watch.
No you're not alone! Especially when the two white kids look perfectly human and all the other animals just look like animals. Then all of a sudden there is the monkey family that definitely looks like it's suppose to be a human-animal cross. It's awful, it's off our list too.
I'm glad that you stopped watching Dave and Ava cartoons because of the way that they depicted monkeys to look like Black people. I turned off that Dave and Ava series because of the way that they drew the monkeys in that five little monkeys cartoon and my granddaughter hasn't been allowed to watch that series since that time.
If enough people who watched Dave and Ava cartoons stop watching that series because of the offensive way that they drew those monkeys and if enough people who would watch Dave and Ava cartoons boycott Dave and Ava cartoons because of that depiction, then maybe the producers of those cartoons will get a clue and draw monkeys so that they don't look like stereotypical Black people.
16. Laura PhillipsSeptember 19, 2016 at 1:45 PM
What is up with Dave and Ava? It's not just the appalling "5 Little Monkeys," it's the "Apples and Bananas" song where, not only do the monkeys steal from the white kids (who chase them), they dance. The whole show is just creepy.
Laura Phillips,
Ugh! I hadn't watched Dave and Ava's "Apples and Bananas" animation until you mentioned it in your comment.
You are right. The drawing of the monkeys with their stereotypical Black hairstyles is appalling.
The author of this page http://ukrainegoodnews.com/dave_and_ava_breaks_records_in_usa.html, written in May 2015, indicates that "For one month and a half 15 000 000 Americans have watched 'Dave and Ava' cartoon. It is an incredible success not just for Ukrainian 3D animation but for all Ukrainian cinematography.
Animation 'Dave and Ava' is 100% Ukrainian product: idea, plot, direction, team of 3D animators, composers, voice actors and financing."
The cartoon is produced at animation studio in Lviv. However, the cartoon is available in English because it was produced for English speaking audience."....
-snip-
There are no comments to date for that article. I just wrote this comment:
"The animators of Dave and Ava cartoons should be aware that their depictions of monkeys (including their hairstyles) are offensive to Black people. (see for instance, the Dave and Ava "Five Little Monkeys" and the Dave and Ava "Apples And Bananas" cartoons.)
And it is not just Black Americans who have noted this and are letting others know about it. Read for example the comments on this blog http://pancocojams.blogspot.co...
Hopefully, the animators will become more socially conscious and change these drawings.
-signed the editor of that above mentioned blog and a grandmother who will never allow her pre-school grandchildren watch Dave and Ava because of those stereotypical depictions."
-snip-
It appears that that comment was published without the specific link for this post. I added a reply with the title of this blog post.
It's a cartoon. Y'all should be ashamed. You promote it. Looking for the bad in kids cartoons. Leave the people of dave and ava alone. My daughter loves them. It's people like this who keep the hate alive. Quit grasping at straws.
Thanks John, I 100% agree with you. If you ask a 2 yr old what the song means he will tell you it's monkeys jumping on the bed!!! Parents are the real issue reading too much into a simple cartoon.
20. AnonymousSeptember 22, 2016 at 12:03 PM
I am neither black or white, my husband is of East Indian descent and I am asain. We were both very disturbed by the racial connotations depicted in Dave and Ava when watching with our 1 year old son and have decided to boycott the show from our house.
Thanks, anonymous.
I appreciate your comment. Dave and Ava's animators should be aware of the racist connotations in their cartoons and change those drawings, for all of our children's sake.
This comment was posted to http://ukrainegoodnews.com/dave_and_ava_breaks_records_in_usa.html in reply to my comment written on September 22, 2016
Jaquelynn Herrera Azizi Powell • 3 days ago [October 9, 2016]
"Agreed. My 19 month old daughter pointed to a group of African Americans and yelled "Monkeys!" I was mortified and couldn't understand why she was so adamant. I mentioned it to my mother who put it together...I now bypass all those nursery rhymes."
I wrote this in reply:
Azizi Powell Jaquelynn Herrera • a few seconds ago
"Thanks for your comment, Jacquelynn Herrera.
Hopefully, the producers of Dave and Ava cartoons are aware of the negative consequences of the stereotypical depictions in their cartoons and will change them."
Dave and ava have since added an actual black character who is not a stereotype. she appears to be the kids mom.
Thanks for that information, Anonymous.
What is a name of a cartoon in which this character appears?
Hi Azizi,
I believe they have been including her in most of the recent ones. Apples and bananas part 2 I believe it's called is one of them.
-Andrew
Thanks for that information, Andrew.
I watched the Dave & Ava Apples and bananas part 2 video that you referred me to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0FiMc7BOT0&t=869s.
I found the artists' depiction of Black people to be very much improved from the five little monkey video that I had critiqued and mentioned in this pancocojams post.
You (or another anonymous commenter) wrote that the Black woman with the curly hair and glasses "appears to be the kids mom". I'm curious if she is identified as their biological mother or their step mother in one of this cartoon's episodes and if so which one?
Also, I noticed that in the "Miss Polly Had A Dolly" segment [beginning at 12:40 in that same video] Ava plays with a Black doll who is also drawn without stereotypical characteristics. I'm very pleased with that depiction.
The "Wheels On The Bus" segment beginning around 12:20] has a monkey family that appears to drawn as though they are a Black family. Given the stereotype [in the USA and I think elsewhere] of Black people as monkeys I'm not thrilled about that depiction and would have preferred that the characters on the bus be drawn as some other animals and not monkeys. That said, the drawings were considerably better than the "Five Little Monkeys" caricatures of Black people that I commented on before. (For instance, the little girl in the "Wheels On The Bus" segment had her hair in a pony tail and not the multiple braids sticking out of her hair like the previous drawing of the girl monkey had.
Thanks again for letting me (and other pancocojams visitors) know about this (and other) new Dave & Ava episodes.
And thank you very much to the artists and other production staff of this Dave & Ava cartoon!
The Wheels on the Bus one actually bothered me the most, as a white bus rider who's used to being the only white person on a bus in a major US city. It makes me wonder if it's truly an accident/coincidence or if someone involved in making the cartoon had had that experience. It definitely seems inappropriate to show to American children who might ever ride buses.
28. Azizi PowellOctober 26, 2020 at 8:30 AM
Thanks for your comment Jillian.
For the record, I choose not to revisit that cartoon and I choose not to speculate about the motives of those associated with making that or other cartoons.
****
I find their videos blatantly racist! Main characters have bright blue and green eyes subliminally representing the perceived racial class of Caucasians. The main characters always look way better than the rest of the characters, usually represented as non-Caucasians in every video, as if non-Caucasians can never look as good.
Initially, I did not think much of it, but as I watched more along with my son it stared to hit me that it was in fact racist, very much so. Out of all their videos, I find "Five Little Monkeys" video especially racist.
I am not for hyper political correctness, but I find Dave and Ava cartoons to be racist and wrong.
It's no surprise that they are from Ukraine.
As pointed by others as well, I have boycotted that channel at our residence.
Thanks for your comments, Brian Scott.
That's a bit rich, especially accusing creators of being racist and immediately making generalizations about their nation as a whole.
The absolute majority of Ukrainians have never seen a black person in real life, the country has no history of slavery and racial tensions to the extent that the US and certain European countries do, and there is therefore no inherent evil monkey stereotypes. Characters from the 'Five Little Monkeys' actually seem to be loosely based on an old Soviet cartoon about five mischievous young monkeys living in a zoo with other anthropomorphic animals, and the trouble they cause to their ever-exhausted but ingenious mum and everyone else. A nod to parents from their expected audience, who are likely to remember these cartoons fondly from their own childhood.
I am sure the creators found their product very unexpectedly popular outside of their own country (where it was marketed as series for early years English acquisition) and were mortified by how the global community read the message behind the characters. They actually made a massive effort introducing a much better representation of racial diversity into the new series. Dave and Ava's mother (stepmother?) introduced in the new episodes, is actually Black.
Here is the original Soviet cartoon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2K2l02C9As&t
Unknown, thanks for your comment.
I refer you to all the comments that I've made about my opinions about the depictions on that series.
Recently Dave and Ava have replaced many of the songs that had the monkey family in them with a group of kittens including the 10 in the bed video
https://youtu.be/25WIA-7LZFg new version with kittens
35. Azizi PowellApril 2, 2017 at 7:48 PM
Thanks for sharing that information, Rose Whiting.
When I put that link in Google, it directed me to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25WIA-7LZFg&feature=youtu.be.
36. AnonymousJuly 16, 2017 at 11:59 AM
People this a nonsense.... It has become a childs song. And its used as such.... No one is being racist with this version of the song.... So why bring it there? Dave and ava has by far been the best in my opinion at being catchy educational and fun for my little one and many others... Why pick apart somthing out of thier control? My little one love 5 little monkeys and it definatly isnt out of racist slander!
37. Azizi PowellJuly 16, 2017 at 2:20 PM
Thanks for your sharing your opinion, Anonymous.
I've agree that Dave and Ava videos might be educational and fun. I pointed out what I believed-and still believe-to be stereotypical depictions of Black people in that particular video and I've since learn those depictions were in some other videos from that animated series and have since been changed.
I just came across this in a Southern cookbook entitled "The Southern cook book of fine old recipes" on the internet archive. The entire cookbook has offensive imagery and poetry but I was shocked to see this rhyme, exactly as described in the first part of your article, complete with imagery of two children in bed. It is on page 34 of the cookbook: https://archive.org/details/southerncookbook00lustrich if you'd like to see it for yourself. I've sung this song with my kids and had no clue of its roots, well needless to say, now I won't be singing this anymore.
39. AnonymousDecember 30, 2017 at 1:14 AM
I forgot to mention that the cookbooks publication date is 1935, it is from the archive of antique cookbooks...
40. Azizi PowellDecember 30, 2017 at 9:57 AM
Anonymous, thanks very much for sharing information about the 1935 book "Southern Cook Book of Fine Old Recipes".
I didn't know about that book before you alerted me to it.
Here's the song fragment from that book that mentions "shortnin' bread":
Two little ni&&ers lyin in bed,
One of 'em sick an' de odder mos' dead.
Call for de doctor, an' de doctor said,
"Feed dem darkies on short'nin bread."
Source: Southern Cook Book Of Fine Old Recipes, compiled & edited by Lillie S. Lnstig, S. Claire Sondheii, Sarah Rensel [with] decorations [illustrations] by H. Charles Kellui; published by Culinary Arts Press, Reading, Pennsylvania, 1935) ; republished on https://ia802607.us.archive.org/25/items/southerncookbook00lustrich/southerncookbook00lustrich.pdf
[page 34]
The "n word" is fully spelled out in this song fragment and in other song fragments in that book.
-snip-
Most of the song fragments that are included in that 1935 cookbook are from Black American secular songs. I plan to publish a pancocojams post that highlights all of the song fragments that are included in that 1935 book and will add the link to that post in this pancocojams comment section.
Thanks again, Anonymous!
People are insane.
I was saw the dave and eva five monkey family and thought it depicts black people as monkeys. I decided to check it online and saw this post. They should remove that particular monkey family song to show that they have changed. Some people claim that they are just depicting animated monkeys, why not depict white people also after all there are beige coloured babus (monkey) that has caucasian like colour of skin. That Dave and Eva video is pure subliminal racist message to kids.
43. MotunrayoJanuary 24, 2019 at 10:23 PM
OMG!!! I started watching this horrible cartoon called Dave and Ava and wstched this 5 little monkeys. I was so appalled by it. It is extremely racist. When did monkeys stat having two legs and braiding their hair? You tube must take it down with the apples and banana song as well. Higy creepy and disgusting. It really has a white supremacist undertone and any intelligent person will realize this. What a shame on these perpetrators of evil.. I wish we can all sign a petition so that it can be banned on youtube.
Thanks for your comment, Motunrayo.
I've already shared my opinion about that particular Dave and Ava cartoon and I understand that the animators have improved their depictions of certain characters.
45. UnknownFebruary 27, 2019 at 4:48 PM
Im sorry but I dont find any trance of racist subliminal, in fact there was a baby African American doll being held by the caucasian baby girl. I don't think they would be irresponsible or be idiots to portray something like this. They have animals of or sorts on the show. I guess thats liberals way of thinking.
46. Azizi PowellFebruary 27, 2019 at 6:13 PM
Thanks for your comment, Unknown.
As to my opinion about whether this particular episode of this cartoon is racist or not, read my previous comments.
47. AnonymousMarch 12, 2019 at 4:27 PM
Opinions may come and go. The outer appearance nor the color of ones skin determines who a person really is inside. The content of ones character reveals the heart. The Bible says "from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." God is love. No one can change the word of God, no matter what other people think about you.
Thanks for your comment, Anonymous.
49 UnknownSeptember 26, 2019 at 1:55 AM
strange that some people get offended with this cartoon
50. Azizi PowellSeptember 15, 2020 at 9:39 AM
It's disturbing that some people don't get offended by that cartoon.
51. AnonymousAugust 10, 2021 at 1:47 AM
My family is POC from Africa, my mind is blown. Our grandmother used to sing these songs to us, as her grandmother did to her, but especially the shortning song, the word "darkie" was replaced by "doggie" (as in dog) we never questioned it but wow they didn't even change the song, they just replaced one word and its such a similar sounding word at that... and to think I've been singing it to my daughter. lord have mercy!
52. Azizi PowellApril 15, 2022 at 10:58 AM
Note: It's April 15, 2022 and I just noticed a typo in my response to this comment. Here's my edited comment:
Azizi Powell, August 10, 2021 at 12:17 PM
Hello, Anonymous.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with this song.
I don't think this song is inherently offensive. I believe it
can be sung for enjoyment when the offensive word that was used is changed to a socially appropriate word (such as "darkie" changed to "doggy").
53. AnonymousAugust 10, 2021 at 12:21 PM
Question? (familiarity) whether learners from different cultural backgrounds recognize everything required to understand the poem
Question? (ideology) whether the lesson being taught by the poem resonates with the values of different cultures?
Anonymous, here are my responses to both of your questions as I understand them.
With regard to the Five Little Monkeys" song/rhyme:
I believe this song or rhyme was created for entertainment (fun) purposes and not to teach any lesson.
It is a historical fact that in that song "monkeys" replaced offensive referents for Black people.
Western cultures have negatively connected "monkeys" with Black people. If that isn't the case where a person lives, they won't understand why the song can be considered offensive to Black people.
I believe people learning a song should know the cultural history of a song. The fact that a song has a negative history or some parts of the song can still be used negatively doesn't necessarily mean that it is always "wrong" to sing that song.
With regard to the "Five Little Monkeys" song, I consider some contemporary examples of videos of that song to be offensive (stereotypical) because of the way that they are/were drawn. I also consider some videos of that song to be problematic if characters are drawn/shown laughing at characters who fall out of the bed.
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Well looks like I'm late to the party. This show is clearly posing monkeys as black people and I hate that cause my daughter likes this show. I thought I might be jumping the gun, so I looked up this site and another. Most are in agreement that this is not ok. We're done w Dave and Ava
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, Anonymous.
DeleteI appreciate it and I agree that it's not okay to draw Black people as monkeys.