Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post presents selected comments about being Black in France from the discussion thread of a 2018 (vlog) "Black in Paris - It's Different than Being Black in the States". That video log was published by Roman Around The World, Apr 19, 2018.
These selected comments are from Black people living in France or other European countries.
The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to Roman Around The World for publishing this vlog and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
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Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2019/11/youtube-discussion-about-black-people.html for a closely related pancocojams 2019 post entitled "Black People Nodding At Black Strangers In Europe, In The United States, & Elsewhere".
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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THE DISCUSSION THREAD OF THE VLOG "Black in Paris - It's Different than Being Black in the States" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNiWNfzP1sw
(Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.)
1. Gaverne Bennett, 2018
"This is a very interesting video. I lived in Paris for about 5 years. Ok, I think I agree with what you are saying but there are much, much deeper levels going on with Paris and France than maybe you perceived. Difficult to say everything here but talk to somebody from Martinique (or of Martiniquiuan descent) or alternatively of Algerian descent. They will tell you the real score. Just to let you know I am of Jamaican descent but I was born and grew up in the UK, London in case you are wondering. France, the UK, and the US really are different countries on this subject I have found.Profoundly different.
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2. Roman Around The World, 2018
"Yes. The issues of race in Paris are indeed deep. I'm planning future videos with people born and raised in France. Conversation to be continued...."
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3. Gaverne Bennett, 2018
"The people to talk to are people of Algerian descent..."
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4. flokiz z, 2018
"@Gaverne Bennett algerians are hypocrites , and racist arabs , why would she go talk to an arab? HUGE racism between blacks and maghreb(morocco, algeria, tunisia) in France, maghrebian women(algerians,morrocans, tunisians) like black guys(and the world "like" is too kind to use) and it creates a huge racism here between arabs and blacks, they are not africans, those are arab colonizers"
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5. Veronique428, 2018
"flokiz z I do agree when it comes racism towards black people, arabs are far to be our allies nor in France nor in Africa.
But there is many African born and raised in France whom she could speak to‼️"
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6. Rowhider RC & Racing, 2019
"@Veronique428 My wife, a black african women lived for 4 years in Marocco and was regulary called "Ni&&er*" and other racists insults... Not a single time in 10 years in France"
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*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.
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7. Rom's, 2019
"Gaverne Bennett algerian people generaly hate the french ! so they 're going to bash france ! france has a particular and complicated relationship with algeria and algerians in the common history between the two nations, algerians in france are often in confrontation with white french and the authorities !! And don't forget that they are Muslims and therefore their culture is Islam and not the French culture which poses a real problem in France !"
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8. Patrice Moniz, 2020 [This comment is reformatted to enhance its readability.]
"Very interesting video, and as a Black French man ,who was born and raised in France during 25 years. I've lived and studied in New York for nearly 2 years and established in London ,in the U.K. ,since nearly 10 years, I do have an accurate point. Sorry in advance for the long comment
Being black in France is definitely not the same as being black in the US. Definitely, I can't blame Black Americans for it. This is just the "segregation effects" sad to see but when you think about it, it is not that far after all. Back in the US as a Black French, I was pretty shocked to see all those black things going on, if you make it big as a Black there, he might be mentioned somehow ,like you made it despite being black. I'm a professional dancer and I heard Misty Copeland in an interview (first Black Principal Ballerina at the American Ballet) "I made it, despite starting ballet at 13 (which is late for ballet) I'm quite short and I'm black" that shocked me, truly shocked me. Being black is still a thing in the US, white and black Americans, both keep cultivating it.. no ones fault, I mean, slavery is to blame for sure, people who perpetrated that atrocity are to blame.
It seems pretty hard for black Americans out there to just forget and move on, can't blame them..so many reminders of their blackness...Think about it, in the 90's you could read in the US news : "Madonna is dating this guy despite him being black" yeah ,in the 90's not so long ago (watch the truth or dare movie to see this interview) That's what I'm saying,it seems like there is still to many white people in America who can't let it go and I believe there is just to many of them and in very high positions. However I didn't feel it when I was in the US not at all. As there, I wasn't black, I was French..likewise, it is cool to be French in America whatever the color of your skin. It is another story in France.
I've recently moved to France again, just for a year ,I had to deal with stuff..both my wife and I (she's mixed race french/arabic and she definitely looks arabic) after being in London for so long ,coming back to France was shocking as we felt "Black and Arabic" at many occasions, soooo many.. can't even explain, in London we are French in France we are Black and Arabic and that was very violent, like a slap in the face. The only difference with the US, big difference though, makes colored people's life easier, true, I don't complain, thank God I wasn't black in America..in France it is very discreet, taboo, but we definitely feel it. You both girls can't as in France you are not black you are Americans, and that's so cool. Also being light skin definitely made a difference in my life as a French black man. I'm also named Patrice ,which is very French. My dark skinned black friends called Mustapha and Mamadu had both very different lives, trust me. My life was very easy in France because I'm (café au lait) like they are saying. Many people even told me ,many times "Look at this African guy, always the same, so rude and smelly, (After noticing my shocked face) Oh, don't take it personally Patrice, you're different Patrice, you are light and pretty, it doesn't apply to you at all, come on, you are not really black!"
Oh yeah! Or white people impressed by my perfect French speech "Oh your French is perfect young man! No accent at all, my God this is so rare!! Oh, hold on, you are "métisse" right? One of your parent is French that's why!" No no both my parents are light skinned from Cape Verde..
and I can go on forever...But indeed it is very different that the life of a black man in America. We didn't experience any segregation. We are French ,it is true, many white French agree with that but behind closed doors is another story but thank God, there is more smart white French in France and that's a big difference. But you both can't feel it, I'm sure you both have good French skills but maybe not as sharp yet, you can't get this "racisme ordinaire" right, it is very discreet, maybe you will after 10 more years.
Finally, I believe London is the perfect balance between Paris and New York, this city is so tolerant and open to the world, nothing comparable to the US or Paris, really, they are so avant garde. Here your color doesn't matter, you can truly succeed, sincerely, there is racism of course, but it is very rare to witness. Finally, France is my country ,I'm French and proud of it, I was made in France and I've been blessed my entire life for meeting the right people. Some French are definitely racist and now they feel like they can say it out loud, but I forgive them, France is still beautiful and even if I can't live there anymore, this negative mentality doesn't suit me anymore, I will always be French and proud. Vive la France!"
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9. Jamilla Diallo, 2020
"@Patrice Moniz so true. I lived in France for a while and am light skinned. People would ask me from which part of the Caribbean I was from.They were shocked when I said I am not from Martinique or Guadeloupe but from Africa.Also, I got the " you are not really black" which is a racist microagression. Like you can only be Black if you are dark skinned."
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10. Patrice Moniz, 2020
"Jamilla Diallo yeap! but if one day something goes wrong with your white friends, oh, you are black again! Thank God not all the same..! Stupid people are everywhere.. take care Jamilla"
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11. Dominique ho-sing-ming, 2020
"Jamilla Diallo: this is not some sort of aggression. We recognize people can be mixed too and respect that."
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12. Andy Fos, 2020
"@Patrice Moniz Imagine a black guy from the banlieue listening to this conversation on how it is to be black in France.
Now imagine a black guy who grew up on a council estate in London hearing you say London is so tolerant....same thing.
They are Americans in Paris, you are French in London. Being abroad you act differently to the people who grew up there and people act differently towards you until the honeymoon is over."
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From https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/apr/04/photographer-banlieue-monsieur-bonheur-department-93-paris-france-fox-news-no-go-zone "The banlieue, the working-class areas that encircle Paris and other French cities, are used to being demonised. On 24-hour news channels and in parts of the French press, these suburbs are seen as breeding grounds for hooliganism, drug trafficking and radical Islam."...
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13. Patrice Moniz, 2020 [This comment is reformatted to enhance its readability.]
"Andy Fos and I decided to rise way above that ,the honeymoon will end when I will decide to. I have a successful life and career because I've used my blackness as an advantage despite everything you said. I'm blessed. Well, I grew up in a very simple household by a banlieue and my closest friends where all from the banlieue and we were still extremely happy and fortunate to be born and raised in France. This is just small incidents ,lack of education, fears which can't stop us. I'm not living based on how people will react to me, We are the ones in charge of our destiny and "whatsif" won't help anyone. And Imagine everyone was black in the world? And Imagine people in Syria? Let's not complain.
Yes London is tolerant and I mean it. It is from personal experience. All this is from personal experience. We all experienced things differently and the way we react is KEY. Many of my black and arabic friends from the banlieue live today very successful and prosperous lives. Do not let your neighborhood define your future. With this "whatif" mindset you can't go forward. Send lights on your journey and even the racists will fall in love with you and change for good. Again by experience, I saved the souls of many racists around me in France and London. By educating them, trust me, true story. We can't save them all but we can make a difference. We are not victims.
I don't live my life by imagining. I'm writing down my own story as many of my colored friends did, we dreamt and today we are living the dream. And France definitely helped on that. No bitterness, no hate, no "whatif", move on. Send good on your journey and good will ALWAYS come back to you, wherever you are born. You can be born on a council estate and die in a Mansion. ALL ON YOU."
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14. Andy Fos, 2020
"@Patrice Moniz You yourself said when you went back to France you felt Black and your girlfriend felt Arabic again etc...
Anyway my point was not about success or where you start and where you finish but about perspective.
If I walk into a shop and am treated like a king and the next guy walks into the same shop and is treated like a criminal, is it a great shop or a terrible one?
If I say to these ladies " You are wrong", can they accept that? Of course not, they experienced it BUT there are other experiences and perspectives based on various factors.
I am glad you feel successful and in control of your own destiny. We are not alone in the world, shouldn't we care about the experiences of others too?"
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15. T.J. JAZZ, 2020
"@Patrice Moniz Loved your response! "You're not like them" "your not really black" ....If I got paid everytime an ignoramous said that to me... "Our" story is complicated...and it is also what makes us nod at eachother on the street, rough points, but beautiful as well❤"
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16. Sam Sy, 2020
"Moreover, and I speak as a black french man in France right now, you should consider that in Paris black American are thought to be the epitome of « coolness » so they would be treated differently. Prejudices exists in every country..here it.s just French prejudices.
But the black recognizing other black thing is universal..🙂 A nod , a hand gesture , a look ..that’s all it takes to remind us we are all from the same « village» really."
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17. Eve P, 2020
"@Sam Sy thanks for sharing. I think we (as a black French woman) better bond with each other because of our African or Caribbean backgrounds and also we do share afro American pop culture because there's not enough contents from afropean people"
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18. Bonjourlemonde, 2020
"Sam Sy so true Black american is what is cool in usa. Jazz, hip hop, soul, urban fashion, Black panthères etc: The fighters"
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19. Harold Matouba, 2020
..."Racism is forbidden in France but french pratices racism against black, arabs, gypsies, muslims. Great companies, public organism even trade labour were pointed by activists for storing data concerning these population. "each race a mark". One for the black (not the same for the African and the Caribbean) , another for arabs and muslims etc. I notice that french people love to be considered as a "human race protector" . BS"
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20. Edwin Swezey, 2020
"When I first came to France in 1972, 95% of my reason was to escape American racism. I was surprised to find that the French did have a racist streak at the time, but it was against Arabs, as they remembered the "dirty" Algerian war for independence. That has worn off over the years, since most Arabs in France aren't from Algeria and a lot of those that are here play on the championship soccer teams. They're f&&king* heroes, now.
As for blacks, Kim's experience is just what I have always felt - you just walk down the street (even in 1972) and don't even notice when another black person is walking on the same sidewalk. It just makes no difference. And there are mixed-race couples, too: That was pointed out to me by an American I met in the 1980's, but I had never noticed that before."
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*This word is fully spelled out in this post.
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21. Oumar DIALLO, 2020 [This comment is reformatted to enhance its readability.]
"France was described much as your experience in that everyone was considered French and expected to adopt French culture and identity", you are so right about this point, I'm Senegalese and I have been in France for 4 years as a student and engineer now, one day my boss told me that " Oumar I think you are not deeply concern about french culture, as like Oumar you don't use to it or Oumar you did not assimilate yourself inside french culture. I was shocked like never before, it looks like I have to be as they are, I have to be french, think in french way, have a french behaviour, a kind of universel culture which all people must enjoy etc. but I cannot be like that ✋, I'm so related and proud on my Senegalese culture, So that's something really disgusting for me.
last summer, after back from my vacations in Senegal, I was talking to one of my colleagues, She asked me a question like "Oumar how was your vacations, and how did you felt the first weeks back to your country, honestly the question was "do they (senegalese citizens) seem bizarre for you because for a while you did not have been in Senegal", my answer was like " yeah my vacation was really good, and honestly when my plane landed in Dakar airport, it was like I never have been in france, I just forgot french society, I was normal as everyone, free as everyone, speaking wolof instantantly, I was at home so there is nothing better than that" and she was shocked because of what I have said, surprised she was, I was too.
I'm always shocked about this kind of things, what I can say is " I can integrate into French society and I did but I will never be assimilated". in contrast, I have been in China for 5 months and never felt so real abroad, so good. for Chinese, you cannot be a Chinese and that's fine for me, you are what you are and it's fine for them and I really think this is why I have liked there, the way of feeling that I'm the Senegalese even if there are huge cultural differences between me and them, and those differences were what was beautiful between us, were the attraction.
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22. Williams Bulambo, 2020 [This comment is reformatted to enhance its readability.]
"Hey great video! Great energy! Great spirit! Just a couple of things i want to go back on though.. i am black, born in france, raised in africa, moved back to france when i was a teen and my step-dad is american so i kinda mingled with the three cultures.
(1) The excitement of seeing another black person only occurs when you’re in a mostly white environment, like u said if u see tons of black people everyday obviously you won’t be that much excited
(2) Interracial couples are shamed especially by the families of both parties. White people want nothing to do with other races because they are lowkey racist and other races want nothing to do white people because the « white man ». Moreover what’s interesting is that there’s even a relunctance of other races mixing together because we’re different in our culture, color, religion or even country. Some black parents in france tell their kids not to bring home black people from certain countries.
(3) Even though there is this great sense of belonging to the country we’re still not equal and reminded everyday. We might not say it as often as black americans but as a person you’re aware that you’re not just french if your ancestors were other than white. You’re always going to be french AND.
(4) We do get together as a community of black people, even more often than you think. Certain nuances should be taken in account. Black people who grew up in predominantly white neighborhoods are going to hang out with and mostly have white friends. The opposite is true too meaning white ppl who grew up predominantly black/arabic(these are the more common distinctions) are going to hangout with and mostly have friends of both or either or race. Exceptions exist too. For example i have friends of both parties. The gag is i only hang out with either or, never with both.
(5 and final) It is considered racist to classify the population by color however the government bypasses that by classifying the population by origin. For example which country your parents or your parents’s parents come from. It just depends how many generations your family’s been here for.
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23. Maghreb Al 3arabi, 2020
"In France we think the same thing of America, that every one is equal and that there are no differences between race colors etc..
i'm disapointed that it's not the case.
But honestly, after watching your video i think that it's the same thing every where on this earth; every one prefer his//her own community and culture,
And we reject the person who is not "like us".
Here in France, there is a LOT of racism and discrimination, ask black people who are born here you'll see;
I am a Muslim Arab and i choose to return to my grandparents country. I can't stand France anymore even thoug i'm born here.
Peace and have good travels around this world👍❤"
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