Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post presents information and comments about the racial history in the United States of the numerical church names "First Baptist Church" and "Second Baptist Church.
The content of this post is presented for historical and socio-cultural purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
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BACKGROUND FOR THIS POST
I got the idea of publishing a post on the racial history of the church names "First Baptist Church" and "Second Baptist Church" from reading the sub-thread about that subject in the YouTube video of African American stand up comedian Josh Johnson's set entitled "Drake VS Kendrick Explained to White People" (May 28, 2024). That set was a comedic explanation of the long standing feud between Hip Hop artists Kendrick Lamar and Draje that resulted in Lamar's mega-hit song "Not Like Us", among other tracks that the two rappers recorded to diss (insult) each other.
Some commenters in that video's discussion thread expanded on the following portion of Josh Johnson's comments where he compared the custom of rappers' proclaiming that they are the best with churches naming themselves "the first":
(from that video's auto-generated transcript (given with added capitalizations and punctuation and with implied words in brackets)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3uWj2MpydI
from 2:33 - 3:14
"Like, okay, "Hip Hop as a sport... like Hip Hop as you know,[is] a fun thing a
contest to see who's actually the best cuz everybody, everybody calls themselves
the best on every song. Eventually someone has to be the best. You know, every rapper believes
that they're the best. And they say so in their music. {It's] a lot like how one city will have several
First Baptist Churches. When you look around you're like one of y'all has to actually be first.
Right, this can't how can y'all even all claim to be first. This is confusing you know""...
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COMMENTS ABOUT CHURCH NAMES FROM THE DISCUSSION THREAD FOR THE VIDEO OF THAT STAND UP COMEDIAN'S SET
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3uWj2MpydI
Here are all the comments from the sub-thread of that discussion thread in which people talked about the "First Baptist" and "Second Baptist" Church names. All of these comments were published in June 2024. Numbers are added for referencing purposes only. (Full disclosure- I couldn't resist adding a comment at the end of that sub-thread as of this date.)
1. @elilost
"The 1st Baptist Chruch joke, what a great read of the room
10/10"
2. @mr.h1389
"I'm come back and hit the like button I don't wanna be the
six hundred sixty like"
-snip-
This comment refers to the very large number of comments that were published in that entire discussion thread. That video was published May 28, 2024 and as of August 19, 2024 at 10:46 AM, there was a total of 3,522,586 views and a total of 8,106 comments. I only read a small number of those comments.
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2.
"But did the people in the room really know what's usually
the difference between a 1st Baptist Church and a 2nd Baptist Church?"
**
Reply
3. @positivevibesveda
" @svenkoprek2566
what’s the difference"
Reply
4.
"That one got me too for how wildly risky it was"
**
Reply
5. @MxSae
"Read this right when he said that lmao"
Reply
6.
"I am half white but I'm not American so I didn't get it
unfortunately"
Reply
7.
" @positivevibesveda Not sure if this goes through now as my first
reply doesn't show up: Historically 2nd Baptist Churches (applies to other
denominations too) are mostly founded by abolitionists and thus - at least
historically - Black Churches"
Reply
8.
"@svenkoprek2566 I don't really think it's a racial joke
although what you say is true.
"First" Baptist Churches are supposed to be the actual first
Baptist church in that city/town. Josh is pointing out cities/towns can't
really have multiple "First" churches.
I dont think I've ever actually seen a "second Baptist church" in name. New churches apply the naming convention so they are the "First Baptist Church" in the designated area. That's why a lot of "First Baptist" churches will actually say "First Baptist Church of [insert neighborhood/subdivision/street name]. I live in a part of America that had the highest ratio of churches to people so it's always funny watching church politics from the outside.
Reply
9.
"@toastedt140 , you wrote that you don't think that you've ever seen a "Second Baptist Church". I'm African American and there was and still is a Second Baptist Church in Atlantic City, New Jersey, the city where I was born and lived in until I went off to college. Second Baptist Church, Atlantic City is a Black church. There was/is a First Baptist Church in that city and the congregation-at least when I lived there (up to 1965) was White.
As a result of reading your comment & others in this sub-thread, I did a Google search and found out that there's a Second Baptist Church in Penn Hill, Pennsylvania (very near Pittsburgh, Pa where I've lived for 50+ years). The photos on that church's page suggest that it's an African American church. Google also had listings for a lot of churches with the name "Second Baptist Church" throughout the United States. And, thanks to Google search, I found a Quora page with the title "Is there a "second" Baptist Church or are they all firsts?" Here's part of a comment from that page: " Generally speaking, First Baptist Churches are founded by Caucasian Baptists. Second Baptist Churches are founded by African American Baptists. This pattern holds true throughout the country at about 90% ratio in my experience. (This isn’t just a guess. I spent three years selling magazine and web subscriptions to churches in the United States. It was my bread and butter to understand who I was dealing with.)".
-snip-
That entire comment and other comments from that Quora page are found immediately below.
SELECTED COMMENTS ON THE SUBJECT OF CHURCH NAMES
From https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-second-baptist-church-or-are-they-all-firsts "Is There A Second Baptist Church Or Are They All Firsts?"
This compilation consists of selected comments from "related" discussion threads that were quoted on that page and also had their own Quora page.
These comments are numbered for referencing purposes only.
1. Jim Wayne, 019
B.A. from Duke University (Graduated 1967)
"Yes, in some southern cities there were Second Baptist
Churches, but they were not common
The Baptists are divided among themselves into a number of different groups, often called conference or associations. Membership in those groups are voluntary; a church that disagrees with the denomination can leave it by a vote of the congregation. Most Second Baptist Churches over time changed their name to either a Biblical reference (e.g.: Shiloh, Calvary, St. Paul’s) or a geographical one (e.g.: Oak Street, Riverside, Green Hill). I am familiar with only one Second Baptist Church, which changed its name when it moved from one Baptist association to another.
As you probably know, denominations with stronger central
authorities often have Second churches and even those with higher numbers. In
Chester, PA, there is a historic Fifth Presbyterian Church. There is also one
in Springfield, IL., and a Fourth Presbyterian Church in Chicago, IL.
2. Peter Mardenborough, 2019
Pastor (1995–present)
"Related
What's the difference between 1st and 2nd Baptist churches?
The previous answers are accurate but lack a certain
American nuance that is helpful for when you go visiting church bodies with
these names.
Generally speaking, First Baptist Churches are founded by Caucasian Baptists. Second Baptist Churches are founded by African American Baptists. This pattern holds true throughout the country at about 90% ratio in my experience. (This isn’t just a guess. I spent three years selling magazine and web subscriptions to churches in the United States. It was my bread and butter to understand who I was dealing with.)
There is a town in Southeastern Illinois where the First Baptist Church name was held by African Americans. They were forced, practically at gunpoint, to sell the name to their Caucasian brothers back in the late 1800s.
There are exceptions to this tendency, but personal experience with the following churches confirms the pattern:
Second Baptist Church of Wheaton, IL
Second Baptist Church of Elgin, IL
Second Baptist Church of Evanston, IL
Second Baptist Church of Shelbyville, IN"
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3. Mark Allen Myers, 2023
"Related
Why are Baptist churches sometimes called First Baptist
Church (?); and are there second or third Baptist Churches?
The “First Baptist Church” is a traditional naming
convention for Baptists. The first Baptist church established in a given town
is usually called “First Baptist Church of wherever”. Since most communities
have a First Baptist Church somewhere, they’re extremely common. I should note,
however, that the true “First Baptist Church” in America is First Baptist
Church in Providence, Rhode Island. It was founded by Roger Williams, who was
kicked out of Plymouth for disagreeing with the Puritans’ religious ideas. He
founded his own church in 1638 and it’s been there ever since.
****
4. Mark Thomase, 2021
Studied Theology at Fuller Theological Seminary
"Related
Why are Baptist churches sometimes called First Baptist
Church (?); and are there second or third Baptist Churches?
My parents were married at the Fifth Baptist Church of
Washington, DC. I can’t say for certain, but this at least implies that there
were First, Second, Third, and Fourth Baptist Churches as well. Why Baptists in
Washington didn’t get more creative with their naming, I don’t know.
In Boulder, Colorado, there was the First Baptist Church downtown, and the much smaller Second Baptist Church a few blocks away. The difference was that the First Baptist Church was mostly white and the Second Baptist Church was mostly Black."
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4. Linden Malki, 2020
Owner/Manager/Parts Specialist
"In many cases, as towns and cities grew, it was common for
Baptist communities to call themselves “First Baptist Church”; I’m sure that
they expected more churches to be formed. Very often the next one to be
established was by Black families, who were often the “Second Baptist Church”.
As someone has commented, most churches with numerical names have changed their
names to something more theological and distinctive."
5. Dale Richesin, 2019
Graduate, Divinity School, University of Chicago
"Originally Answered: Why cant you ever find a second baptist church?
For churches founded before 1960, throughout most of the
U.S., primarily the east, First Baptist Church (or Methodist or Presbyterian)
was white, and Second Baptist Church (or Methodist or Presbyterian ) was black.
Today, many First and Second churches may be black, white, or mixed."
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