The Black American Roots Of The Minstrel/Play Party Song "Old Dan Tucker" (Part I)

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a pancocojams series on the American minstrel/play party song "Old Dan Tucker" (also given as "Ole Dan Tucker").

This post presents information and commentary about the history of the song "Old Dan Tucker".

Much of the content of this series was published in a different format in this 2013 post: 

"Old Dan Tucker - Minstrel Song & Play Party Song" 
https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/12/old-dan-tucker-minstrel-song-play-party.html

This 2026 post also includes the three comments that have been published in that 2013 post as of July 11, 2026.* However, the videos of that song that were included in that 2013 post are now showcased in Part II of this 2026 pancocojams post. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/07/youtube-examples-of-old-dan-tucker-part.html for Part II of this 2026 pancocojams series on the song "Old Dan Tucker". That post showcases some YouTube examples of that song along with some information and at least one version of the lyrics to that song.  

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

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Thanks to the unknown early composers of this song. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post. .

-snip-

*This 2026 post includes the three comments that were published  in that 2013 post as of July 11, 2026. One of those comments is from a pancocojams blog reader and one of those comments is my reply written in 2013 . The third comment is my expansion on my 2013 reply that I wrote on July 11, 2026 after reading my 2013 reply.

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INFORMATION ABOUT THE SONG "OLD DAN TUCKER"
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dan_Tucker
"Old Dan Tucker", also known as "Ole Dan Tucker", "Dan Tucker", and other variants, is a popular American song. Its origins remain obscure; the tune may have come from oral tradition, and the words may have been written by songwriter and performer Dan Emmett. The blackface troupe the Virginia Minstrels popularized "Old Dan Tucker" in 1843, and it quickly became a minstrel hit, behind only "Miss Lucy Long" and "Mary Blane" in popularity during the antebellum period...

The first sheet music edition of "Old Dan Tucker", published in 1843, is a song of boasts and nonsense in the vein of previous minstrel hits such as "Jump Jim Crow" and "Gumbo Chaff". In exaggerated Black Vernacular English, the lyrics tell of Dan Tucker's exploits in a strange town, where he fights, gets drunk, overeats, and breaks other social taboos. Minstrel troupes freely added and removed verses, and folk singers have since added hundreds more. Parodies and political versions are also known...

Composition
The origin of the music of "Old Dan Tucker" has always been obscure, and no sheet music edition from 1843, its year of its first publication, names a composer. The first performance of the tune (but not lyrics) may have happened as early as 1841.[40] The music may in fact be from the oral tradition or may have been a product of collaboration.[33]

...[Some of the lyrics to “Old Dan Tucker]... seem to partially derive from an earlier minstrel song called "Walk Along John" or "Oh, Come Along John", first published in various songsters in the early 1840s.[46] Some verses have clear echoes in versions of "Old Dan Tucker":
Johnny law on de rail road track,
He tied de engine on his back;
He pair's his corn wid a rail road wheel,
It gib 'em de tooth ache in de heel.

Possible slave origin
A story dating to at least 1965 claims that "Old Dan Tucker" was written by slaves about a man named Daniel Tucker who lived in Elbert County, Georgia. Tucker was a farmer, ferryman, and minister who appears in records from the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The story, as related by Mrs. Guy Rucker, the great-great-granddaughter of one of Tucker's neighbors, claims that Tucker became quite well liked by the slaves in his area through his ministry to them.[49]

According to this interpretation, the lyrics address Tucker directly. The chorus, "You're too late to get your supper" is a kindhearted taunt to a man who often arrived after dark, forcing his hosts to scrape up a meal for him.[49] The song's occasional lewdness is explained by the natural impromptu nature of its supposed origin.[50]

"Old Dan Tucker" does show evidence of black influence. For example, bizarre imagery in folk versions of the song (e.g., "toothache in his heel") may be a sign of legitimate black input (or of someone poking fun of slaves who had an incomplete knowledge of English).[45] "Old Dan Tucker" most closely resembles African music in its call-and-response refrain.[35]

Daniel Tucker was buried in Elbert County in 1818.[51] The Elbert County Chamber of Commerce today promotes his grave as a tourist attraction due to his possible connection with the character from the song."
-snip-
Here's another comment about the possible Black American origin of this song and the possible connection between the Egbert County Dan Tucker and the character mentioned in that song from http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=27246 "Old Dan Tucker", posted by Bill D, 10 May 03 - 12:14 PM
"My wife was just looking thru some old newspapers saved by her aunt in Georgia in 1945 and found an entire article on Rev. Daniel Tucker, with photographs of the gravesite, and of Fiddlin' John Carson. ...I will try to scan the article, which claims the the original song was begun by the local Negroes, who adored Rev. Tucker...the implication being that Dan Emmett merely added to it and popularized it. (not surprising, given the loose way 'ownership' and credit was treated in those days)......THe article in the Atlanta Journal gives a LOT of history of Rev. Tucker and the area and culture

In the meantime, search found this page with this quote in it [hyperlink no longer viable]

"Old Dan Tucker"
Rev. Daniel Tucker owned a large plantation on the Savannah River and is buried near his old hometown, "Point Lookout", six miles from here. Born in Virginia, February 14, 1774, Daniel Tucker came here to take up a land grant. A revolutionary soldier, planter and minister, he owned and operated Tucker's Ferry near his home. He died April 7, 1818 - but not "of a toothache in his heel". Esteemed by his fellow planters, he was loved by the Negroes who composed the many verses of the famous ditty, "Old Dan Tucker", a favorite song at corn shuckings and social gatherings. Marker is on GA 72 southeast of Middleton."
-snip-
Click that Mudcat link for the "original" lyrics that are credited to Daniel Emmett, and other comments that include lyrics for that song. Here's a quote* followed by a comment that was posted by Dicho Date: 04 Jun 02 - 10:53 PM

" "Composed by Dan D. Emmet, and sung by him with unbounded applause in Howe's Amphitheatre of the Republic, New York." Page 622 in "Marsh's Selection, or Singing For the Million, Containing the Choicest and Best Collection of Admired Patriotic, Comic, Irish, Negro, Temperance, and Sentimental Songs Ever Embodied in One Work." Three volumes in one, New York, Richard Marsh, 374 Pearl Street, 1854. Reproduced in Newman I. White, 1928, American Negro Folk Songs, pp. 446-447 (1965 reprint)."

Some verses borrowed from Negro song, some Negro folk song verses were borrowed from Emmett. A complete version of a minstrel song. Note: Spelling preserved."
-snip-
WARNING:
Some verses of early versions of "Old Dan Tucker" include what is now known as "the n word".

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EXCERPT FROM THE 2015 ONLINE ARTICLE ABOUT THE SONG "OLD DAN TUCKER" 

from https://henscratches.wordpress.com/2015/08/11/wilder-wednesday-the-dark-side-of-old-dan-tucker/ "Wilder Wednesday – The Dark Side of Old Dan Tucker

Posted August 11, 2015 by Teresa Lynn in History, Music"...
Wilder Wednesday posts are inspired by the Little House on the Prairie series of books [written by  Laura Ingalls Wilder, and much later adapted into a popular American television series.]

..."

The Ingalls family loved music, most often supplied by Pa’s fiddle. Laura recorded dozens of songs that the family enjoyed. One of these is Old Dan Tucker, more strongly associated with Little House on the Prairie due to the character of Mr. Edwards, who sang it often on the TV show.

 

The song dates from the middle of the nineteenth century. It is not certain who wrote it, although it is often attributed to Dan Emmett (who also wrote Dixie). It is certain that his blackface troupe Virginia Minstrels made it popular.

 

Wait…did I just say “blackface?” Yes, I did, and that term should be explained for those unfamiliar with it. Merriam-Webster defines it as “makeup applied to a performer playing a black person, especially in a minstrel show; also: a performer wearing such makeup.” What the definition does not say is that blackface minstrel theater was more than just makeup; it was an exaggerated, stereotypical portrayal of caricaturized black people, meant to be humorous. (I’ll discuss minstrel shows, including Pa’s – Pa’s! – participation in one, more in a future post.)

 

In the case of Old Dan Tucker, the original words were written to be performed by a troupe, with some verses sung – and acted out, an essential ingredient in minstrels – by “Dan” and other verses sung by other members as observers of Dan’s antics. Despite some claims to the contrary, there is no doubt that Dan was supposed to be black. The vernacular of the song, particularly Dan’s own verses, was overplayed Black English (now often called Ebonics). An early playbill calls the show “a Virginian Refrain, in which is described the ups and downs of Negro life.”

 

It was the usual practice for blackface troupes to portray people of color as ignorant and uncouth, or worse. Old Dan Tucker, according to the 1843 lyrics (which can be found at the end of this post), was a fighting, drunken glutton who had no sense of, or didn’t care about, social mores. He sometimes speaks of himself in the third person, as a child might, which is to further show his simple-mindedness. Part of the appeal of this portrayal is that it allowed “lower class” whites to poke fun at the culture of the “upper class” in an analogous way, as opposed to outright finger-pointing, which would only further cement their own lesser-mannered class.

 

It is important to note that both black and white performers used blackface. Black minstrel performers often satirized the behavior of whites, including their racist attitudes, and promoted abolition. By the 1870s, white minstrel shows were giving up blackface (often incorporating other ethnic stereotypes, such as the blarney-filled, drunken Irishman, or greedy, conniving Jews, instead) and black performers were taking over blackface theater. Some African Americans saw it as a means of spreading their own culture, while others realized that it was a much easier way to earn a living than most avenues available to them (which was mostly menial labor). This does not, of course, excuse the caricaturizations of black people by white minstrel performers in blackface.

 

Old Dan Tucker was immediately successful and became a popular song across the country. In fact, it was one of the top 3 most popular songs in 1843, thanks in large part to the Virginia Minstrels.

However, its lyrics did not remain static. Performers added, deleted, and changed verses as it suited them. Hundreds of different versions have been recorded. Some of these promoted specific causes; for example, in 1844 a group called the Hutchinson Family Singers turned it into “a song for emancipation” with abolitionist lyrics. Other versions were designed to eliminate the racist portrayal of blacks and convert it into a generic, fun tune.

 

That is how we today think of Old Dan Tucker. Its history should not make us shun the song, but learn from it. Let its modernized verses bring to mind Mr. Edwards and his helpfulness and neighborliness – to everyone, regardless of their race or color – and enjoy it as an entertaining bit of Americana”…
-snip-
This article includes the lyrics for the 1843 version of "Old Dan Tucker" that were sung by the Virginia Minstrels.

This 2015 article is the only content in this pancocojams post that isn't included in the 2013 pancocojams post on this song. 

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"OLD DAN TUCKER" PERFORMED AS A PLAY PARTY SONG

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_party
"A play party is a social event in which people gather to sing and dance. Play parties began in the 1830s in the United States as a route around strict religious practices banning dancing and the playing of musical instruments. The areas most influenced by the practice were the Southern and Midwestern parts of the United States. Folk songs, many of European and English origin, were used as means to give the attendants choreographed movements for each phrase. No instruments were played at the events, as they were banned by the religious movements of the area. Singing and clapping were used to convey each song. Because dancing was banned, the movements took on the quality of children's games. Though the performance of play parties dwindled in the 1950s, music educators use them as ways to incorporate music and dance in their classrooms.

Some traditional examples of play-parties are: Skip to My Lou, Coffee Grows on White Oak Trees, Shoot the Buffalo, Buffalo Gals, Won't You Come Out Tonight, B.I.N.G.O., Pop Goes the Weasel, Old Dan Tucker."
-snip-
From http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=27246 posted by Dicho, 29 Apr 02 - 09:36 PM
"...here is a "playparty" version from Missouri.

OLD DAN TUCKER
"In this game all the players choose partners and form a big circle, holding hands. An odd boy is called "Old Dan," and he stands alone in the center. Everybody sings lustily:
Old Dan Tucker down in town,
Swingin' the ladies all a-round,
First to the right and then to the left,
An' then to the one that you love best.

At the words "first to the right" it is "Old Dan's" privilege to pull a girl out into the ring by her right hand, turn her around once, and thrust her back into her place again. When they sing "then to the left" he takes another girl out by the left hand and swings her as before. At the words "then to the one that you love best" every boy swings his own partner. It is at this moment that "Old Dan" tries desperately to grab a girl for himself, and if he succeeds, the man who has lost his partner must be the next "Old Dan."

The following stanza is a sort of chorus, used to keep "Old Dan" in the ring as long as possible, since he has no opportunity to get a partner while it is being sung.

Git out of the way for old Dan Tucker,
He's too late to git his supper,
Supper's over and breakfast a-cookin',
An' Old Dan Tucker standin' a-lookin'.

If "Old Dan" really wishes to expedite matters he can use one girl for all three movements of the game, and thus be sure of getting himself a partner, but this is not considered the sporting thing, and is not often done- usually not unless "Old Dan" loses his temper. Several other verses are used as filler in this game:

Old Dan Tucker down in town,
A-ridin' a goat and leadin' a hound,
The hound gives a howl an' the goat gives a jump,
An' throwed Old Dan a-straddle of a stump.

Old Dan Tucker he got drunk,
Fell in the fire and kicked out a chunk,
Fire coal got in Dan's old shoe,
Oh my golly how the ashes flew!"

From Mr. Carl Durbin, Missouri, 1927.
Found in minstrel shows as early as 1841. Often credited to Dan D. Emmett. A related piece, "Get Out of the Way, Old Johnny Tucker" (Negro Minstrel's Song Book, 1850), and many other citations.

Vance Randolph, 1982, Ozark Folksongs, Vol. 3, pp. 301-304. Several other sets of verses given from Missouri and Arkansas.
-snip-
Here are lyrics for this song from http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/playparty-indiana/playparty-indiana%20-%200178.htm "Indiana Play Party Song"

"Old Dan Tucker's still in town,
Swinging the ladies all around,
First to the East and then to the West,
Then to the one that you love best.

Chorus
Get out of the way of Old Dan Tucker!
He's too late to get his supper.
Supper's over and breakfast's cooking,
Old Dan Tucker's stands a-looking.

Old Dan Tucker's a fine old man,
Washed his feet (or face) in the frying pan,
Combed his hair with a wagon wheel
And died with a tooth-ache in his heel.

[version collected from] Mrs. Leslie Beall, Versailles, Indiana]
Get out o' the way for Old Dan Tucker,
He's too late to get his supper.
Some are black and some are blacker,
Some are the color of a chew a' terbacker.

Ripley County [Indiana] variants.
Swing three ladies, Old Dan Tucker [3 times]
Down in the valley.
Promenade round Old Dan Tucker [3 times]
Down in the valley"

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COMMENTS FROM THE 2013 PANCOCOJAMS POST ON "OLD DAN TUCKER"

UnknownApril 27, 2021 at 9:54 AM

I am curious on the author opinion about it is still permissible for one to continue using a song that its original intentions were about slave expressing their suffering and oral history. However, I feel that once the minstrel had a hold of the song it tainted and sour the song and take away the slave experiences.

ReplyDelete

Replies

1. 
   Azizi PowellApril 27, 2021 at 3:08 PM

   Unknown, I think that every person has to make up her and his mind about the use of compositions that are categorized as "minstrel songs".
   
   I would prefer that these songs be taught in to older students along with their music history.

   Delete
2. 
   Azizi PowellJuly 11, 2026 at 11:38 AM

   For what ever reason, I woke up today with the song "Old Dan Tucker" in my mind. I didn't remember publishing this 2013 pancocojams post, but searched for it on this blog and found this post.
   
   More than five years later, I wish I had expanded upon my response to unknown's comment . Here's my response now:
   
   With regard to my comment that "every person has to make up her and his mind about the use of compositions that are categorized as "minstrel songs", I realize that now (in the 2020s United States if not elsewhere", the school system's administrators determine which subjects are taught in music classes, history classes, and "social studies" classes (if "social studies classes even still exist in the United States since the beginning of the 21st century.
   
   I still believe that the full history of the song "Old Day Tucker" should be taught to older students (i.e. students in the 6th grade on up) and to intellectually advanced students. The black faced minstrel history of that song (and of many other American "old time" songs, is part of those song's full histories. Not including that history is "white washing' those songs and therefore not paying homage to their original Black composers, or their early Black composers.
   
   Furthermore, not providing age appropriate information about America's past-including Black faced minstrelsy that was performed by White singers/musicians and by Black singers/musicians robs children and youth of opportunities to learn from this nation's past-including lessons about how people were (and still are) mistreated, treated unequally under the law, and/or ridiculed because of their race, ethnicity, gender, religion etc.
   
   For these reasons, I support the introduction and teaching of old time music to children and youth. However, I believe that prior to university level, students should be informed-in age appropriate language-that they are learning modified versions of these songs. My sense is that those modified versions shouldn't include the n word", Ebonics dialect, and negative references to race and gender when they are sung for entertainment purpose.

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This concludes Part I of this two part pancocojams series on the song "Old Dan Tucker".

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

"Oh, Dem Golden Sneakers" - Fox News Said Black People Will Vote For Trump Because Black People Love Sneakers

DirtTvCelebrityMedia, Feb 22, 2024

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcases a Feb. 22, 2024 YouTube video that addresses the statement about Black people that a White host made during a show the day before on the conservative channel Fox News. That host shared indicated that Black people would vote for former President Donald Trump for President because Trump had launched a line of sneakers and Black people love sneakers.

This post presents an excerpt that provides background about Trump's line of sneakers and presents  comments from several YouTube discussion threads and from a Huffington Post discussion thread that react to the statements that were made by that Fox host.

The beginning part of the title for this pancocojams post "Oh. Dem Golden Sneakers" is a play on the title of  a popular 1879 minstrel song "Oh Dem Golden Slippers". That song was written by African American American James A. Bland. Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh,_Dem_Golden_Slippers  for information about "Oh, Dem Golden Slippers" and click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A_tG9dYX4s for a YouTube sound file of that late 19th century song .

A small number of the comments in this compilation provide information about this subject and/or succinctly state their opinions about this subject. However,  I selected most of the other comments in this compilation because I consider them to be witty and representative of African American "flavor" ("spirit"). This "flavor" (spirit) is usually reflected not just by what is said (that the statement was stereotypical and therefore racist), but also how the commenters expressed what they said. I'm particularly interested in documenting their use of  African American Vernacular English words, sayings, grammatical constructs, and spelling. 

The content of this post is presented for historical, socio-cultural, and linguistic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those commenters who are quoted in this post.

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DISCLAIMER 
There are many more YouTube videos and other online comments about this incident than the discussion threads that are showcased in this pancocojams post. These just happened to be the examples that I read and watched.
 
This post doesn't mean to imply that all of the commenters who are quoted herein are African Americans.

This post also doesn't mean to imply that the only reactions to that Fox News host were witty. Furthermore, just because some of the online comments about that Fox New host's statements could be considered witty, doesn't mean that the people making those comments weren't serious about what they said, and/or angry about what that Fox host said.

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EXCERPT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP SELLING SNEAKERS
Excerpt #1
From https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/17/politics/trump-sneakers-pay-millions-new-york-trial/index.html

Trump launches sneaker line a day after judge’s order to pay nearly $355 million

By Kate Sullivan, CNN

Updated 9:04 PM EST, Sun February 18, 2024
"Former President Donald Trump on Saturday launched a sneaker line, a day after he and his companies were ordered by a judge to pay nearly $355 million in his New York civil fraud trial.

The former president unveiled “Trump Sneakers” at Sneaker Con in Philadelphia. He placed a pair of gold sneakers, which a new website has listed for $399 and named the “NEVER SURRENDER HIGH-TOP SNEAKER,” on the podium as he spoke.”…

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Excerpt #2
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-raymond-arroyo-says-black-people-will-vote-for-trump-because-they-love-sneakers

Calling Trump’s sneakers a “big deal” in the “inner city,” Raymond Arroyo leaned into racial stereotypes about Black people to suggest they will go MAGA in 2024.

Justin Baragona, Updated Feb. 22, 2024 
"Leaning especially hard into well-worn racial stereotypes, Fox News pundit Raymond Arroyo this week insisted Black Americans will support Donald Trump in this presidential election because “they love sneakers.”

[...]

“[Trump] somehow survives, which must drive his opponents crazy, because even the sneaker thing. I was on social media last night. Very interesting as you see Black support eroding from Joe Biden,” the Fox News co-host declared based on tweets he read.

“This is connecting with Black America because they love sneakers!” Arroyo added. “They’re into sneakers… this is a big deal, certainly in the inner city. So when you have Trump roll out his sneaker line, they’re like, ‘Wait a minute, this is cool!’”...

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SELECTED COMMENTS ABOUT THIS TOPIC FROM VARIOUS ONLINE DISCUSSION THREADS.
The comments that are included in this pancocojams compilation from Source #1 are from the discussion thread of the YouTube video that I embedded in this post. 

The sources for the other comments in this post are given in no particular order. Those sources are numbered for referencing purposes only. 

I've included brief explanations for a few of these comments, but I haven't highlighted or included any definitions of the African American Vernacular English words and sayings that are found in these comments. I also haven't added explanations for most of the play on words and other comments about stereotypes that are included in this compilation.  

All of these comments are from Feb. 22, 2024. 

SOURCE #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqfL0Lm4gss, published by DirtTvCelebrityMedia, Feb 22, 2024

1. @sandrahardison4918
"Just openly racist."

**
2. @acsayjerbaihu
"Peewee Herman has really gone down in the world"
-snip-
This commenter-and one other person in that discussion threads whose comment I placed immediately below this one -believes that the Fox News host looks like the character "Pee-wee Herman" that was portrayed by American comedian Paul Reuben . Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pee-wee_Herman for information about "Pee-Wee Herman".

**
3. @maxprivate3805
"Who is that PeeWee Herman host at Faux Newz?"

**
4. @moorreese
"This is what Republicans think of us. And some of you will vote for them."

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SOURCE #2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpt8Zxzhhd8 "Blacks will vote for Trump because of sneakers!", published by The Amazing Lucas, Feb. 22, 2024

1. @bigcoop3717
"Those shoes are ugly. You’ll get clowned wearing those"

**
Reply
2. @RickMcGuire-bl2vs
"They are to collect,lol."

**
3. @Thefundraiser96
"And they wonder why they never get the black vote with stuff like this, im waiting for maga yamaka hats for the jews and maga Sombreros for the Mexicans.:

**
4. @Kingboss709
"When i saw that fox news said that i literally lost brain cells trying to find the logic sh-t* its so bad my soul took damage"
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

**
5. @darkmankind
"Somebody distorted the message: Many of us may be sneakerheads, but we are not stupid. Ain't no way in hell.️"

**
6. @mikeyserrano9748
"Cant wait for the campaign ads of "drinking kool aid with the blacks" from some racist midwestern state"
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/02/the-stereotype-of-african-americans.html for a 2012 pancocojams post entitled "The Stereotype Of African Americans & Kool-Aid".

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7. @beebbeec280
"This is what they think of us….

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8. @bakihanma6770
"Add grape soda and fried chicken, Trump will have us all. It’s a damn shame people equate us to such foolishness."

**
Reply
9. @paulomilan515
"@RickMcGuire-bl2vs Lucas talked about that 2 episodes ago keep up son"
-snip-
"Lucas" is the vlogger host of this YouTube channel. The use of the word "son" in this comment implies that the commenter is "schooling*" a male who is younger than he is, or whose comment shows that he needs to be taught about that matter like younger people who attend school and learn from older people who know more than they know.

**
10. @teachergotgame2203
"He’s coming out with a Stop The Stealitos for the ladies next."

**
11. @geraldineking6071
"You forgot hot sauce !"

**
12. @DefenderOfLogic
"Hillary (D) brings hot sauce. Trump (R) brings shoes. Only difference is Trump makes money in the process."
-snip-
(D) = Democratic
(R) = Republican

Hillary= Hillary Clinton

 **
13. @rhodegraham
"Well Trump did try to get the Mexican vote by posing with a taco bowl in 2016  during Cinco de Mayo."

**
14. @abduahs9366
"Anyone who votes for Trump because of f—king* sneakers should no longer be allowed to vote and more importantly be taught what good sneakers look like."
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

**
15. @qwright242
"Ridiculous. The shoes are ugly and their policies match it"

**
16. @DaSmoov54
"All that's missing is Jimmy Walker busting in Fix News shouting DY-NO-MYTE!!"
-snip-
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmie_Walker
"James Carter Walker Jr. (born June 25, 1947) is an American actor and comedian. He portrayed James Evans Jr. ("J.J."), the older son of Florida and James Evans Sr., on the CBS television series Good Times, which ran from 1974 to 1979, and was nominated for a Golden Globe Award in 1975 and 1976 for his role. While on the show, Walker's character used the catchphrase "Dyn-O-Mite!" which he also used in his mid–1970s TV commercial for a Panasonic line of cassette and 8-track tape players and a 2021-2023 Medicare commercial"...
-snip-
Jimmie Walker is African American. 

**
17. @NPUnplugged
"If that was the case Michael Jordan would be president tf"

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SOURCE #3 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtUv3uZmCg

Donald Trump and Fox News Think The Air Grift Ones Will Win Him The Black Vote!! published by PoliticsByTabitha, Feb. 22, 2024

1. @Dixon_Yamada
"The new clown outfit of 2024 is a red hat and gold sneakers. You can see these clowns a mile away. So each pair cost approximately $399 dollars. I guess the economy is doing great under President Biden if the clown shoes are sold out"

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Reply
2. @robingales6126
"Right on"

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3. @NorrthCafe
"It is over the top that they can't hear the racism in their comments. So pathetic."

**
4. @PaperMario64
"I'm black. Never owned a pair of ridiculously priced sneakers, don't "love" sneakers, or collect them. Once you learn how much it costs to make these brand names versus what they charge and how they pay workers, it all becomes disgusting. Sadly, its the younger folks that don't understand the racist dog whistles and don't know when they are being insulted."

**
Reply
5. @kcufelgoog3225
"Lot of older folks don't understand thedog whistles as well, and don't know when they are being insulted"

**
6. @michellelaguerre8760
"I what  I know for sure of young Black people, they absolutely hate fakes sneakers of any kind and These  sneakers says FAKE, FAKE,"

**
7. @chaebaker3012
"I would not even pay $5 for them at goodwill"

**
8. @titanman8302
"Those shoes didn't look much more expensive than the $12 converse I used to buy back in the 70s. So, considering the fact 37% of the country can't afford a $400 emergency situation, which means with black folks it's more like $200. Any black person who spent $400 on those shoes need to have their head examined."

**
9. @asterillachild5
"“They love sneakers”! Boy, I’m insulted that they think we can be hoodwinked and lead astray by sneakers. Sis you got me on Koonish! That’ll make Merriam Webster 2024!  Keep doing you!"

**
10. @Gatorsfan601
"I’d rather wear Ronald McDonald’s clown shoes."

**
11.@brendawilliams5787
"I won’t vote for him if gold coins came out his mouth and backside. You can get them at Temu any way . They are all full of it. I don’t wear sneakers but I do vote"

**
12. @stacywacy4995
"Not one of my black family members or friends would spend $400 on a gaudy gold pair of sneakers.  I won't even buy the $40 dollar Made in China t-shirts.  Forget the $400 knock offs.  That is not a blue collar worker that has a family to feed plopping down $400 for a pair of sneakers. We will never ever vote for Donald Trump.  Nobody I know bought the shoes."

**
13. @Avant402
"I will never vote for Trump or buy his garbage shoes. I’ve asked my nephews (all 7 of them) what they thought about Trump’s sneakers and they clearly said NO the shoes are tacky and not worth the $400. And it’s stupid of trump and his people to think black Americans are going to vote for him based on this!"

**
14. @carrie0508
" “WE DON’T NEED A WALKER, WE NEED A RUNNER!”……..but not in THOSE shoes!"
-snip-
"We don't need a Walker, we need a Runner!" was the statement that Pastor Jamal Bryant made in his speech in support of Rev. Raphael Warnock, the Democratic candidate for the United States Senate in Georgia in October 2022. Rev. Warnock was competing against former professional football player Hershel Walker. Rev. Warnock was the winner of that Senatorial seat.  

**
15. @njokimcelroy2952
"I don’t know a single Black person who would be caught dead in those ugly shoes. You couldn’t give me a pair."

**
16. @carolynharrison6987
"What an insult!  Just put out cheap glitzy sneakers.  There were less than 10 pair made.  Folks have to pay 399 to order.  NO refund.  They MAY be delivered in August after 45 has spent your $.  You can look up conditions of ordering online."

**
17. @dianneyung111
"Yep, as far as people like him are concerned we blacks like shiney things and loose shoes.  Racist much?

To answer you question. No.  FYI. The shoes don't actually exist.  This was a preorder for delivery in late June or July.   The grift continues."

**
18. @ririlove1962
"i approve this message... Nuthin but FACTS!!! Ugliiass shoes & the jokes on them"

**
19. @BrazilianGirlChannel
"Omg. They are so out of touch it sound like an SNL skit."
-snip-
"SNL" = "Saturday Night Live" television series

**
20. @woolleyweaves
"I'm waiting for the video posts that show they are falling apart after first use, cause you know that's next. News at 11!"

**
Reply
21. @BCB458
"The gold will start to fall off in 2 weeks.  It is also most likely toxic."

**
22. @BWTM
"I came here for LOLz"

**
23. @gail5343
"Nope didn’t buy nor did any members of my family. The grifter strikes again. Can’t wait to hear when they come apart like the steaks, university etc., all of the things he touches or endorses. SMH"

**
24. @stewrobb2329
"This was the same party that said black people would vote for trump because he got arrested".
-snip-
"party" = political party [referring to the Republicans]

**
25.@plantmaster3339
"The sneakers have NOT been made, NO company named to make them, NO shipping date and NO REFUND ."

**
26. @Deb.-on9ep
"Tabitha, you are crazy girl! Air Grift Ones"

**
27. @LilliLamour
"Chiiiiiiile"

**
28. @rell127
"The Jan 6's lol"

**
29. @cherylmoore8960
"Hell 2 Nawh Nawh...."

**
30.@butterflyd1269
"I'm not buying those Jan6s!!! TRump's cult better buy that trash! Wonder Woman remakes!!!"

**
31.@azucenathegysy
"Hell no,i wouldn't if i could afford hell would freeze over before id buy them!"

**
32. @CarollemMen-cl8nz
"They trying to say that Black people love their sneakers and will pay $399 for it.

I wish I would pay

3 cents for anything belonging to Donald Con Trump.

Vote [blue wave emoji]"

**
33. @wandajenkins9426
"No !!! And Hell No"

**
34. @cynh2910
"Tabitha, this is exactly how they think of us. I would rather purchase from Walmart before
I give DJT one  dime of my money.

 What's that saying.. A fool and his money is easily parted.."

**
35. @libe2431
"OMG.  I am not sure why this surprised me. Just when I think they are hitting a new low, they go LOWER.  That crap for $400.00 come on."

**
36. @SIRSWAUN
"Hell Naw I didn't buy them hideous Treason 6's"

**
37. @jaysouthphil7505
"Did I buy that trash....HELL NO!!!  And I'm a real sneaker head and from Philly!!!!"

**
38. @thereddude49
"I think he bought his own air grift  ones clown shoes. Trying to start a buzz for the  grift ."

**
39. @starbaby849
"I’m black and wouldn’t be caught dead in those gaudy, cheap looking shoes. They look  like they are so cheaply made the soles will fall off when you walk."

**
40. @audreyhickson7895
"And u know damn well we ain't buying them shoes lol..."

**
41. @curly73ful
"Don't forget the mugshot. Because we're all criminals... we could relate. We love sports, crime & gym shoes. This is what they think about us.

BTW please don't flood Raymond Arroyo with mean tweets"

**
42. @JHarris.000
"They look like they were already on Te__mu and he just said that he would upcharge and sell them. T is for Te__mu"

**
43.@audreyhickson7895
"I can't say what I want to say"

**
44. @thomasgresham5253
"Dontwhiteboysbuysneakersididnot "

**
45. @JHarris.000
"I think those shoes were already on teamoo"

**
46. @cassandrahemby5953
"Trump sneakers in our community...Yeah right️ LMAO"

**
47. @chilepleasestop9118
"No i didn't buy them uglass shoes."

**
48. @Cassw997
"Hades NO!"

**
49. @cynthiagonzalez537
"Fox Entertainment continues to insult African Americans intelligence."

**
50. @ceeceeclarke6130
"We are Not a monolith"

**
51. @karenbarrett6734
"These broadcasters are in an alternate universe"

**
52. @clouddanh1983
"The shoes rename: the Con man, the grifter,  the I will take your 400, the inflation,
the smelly 6"

**
53. @barbarawortham8865
"So all we care about is sneakers? Wow!"

**
54. @patriciasprings5769
"The disrespect is crazy"

**
55. @saundraking7168
"Not just NO but HELL NO!"

**
56. @ncqueenbee9838
"No person I know bought or would buy those tacky sneakers."

**
57. @ndcoach29
"This just gets stranger and stranger and they’re delusional."

**
58. @crystalscott9948
"They also insulted us on mugshot day! Remember we were suppose to want to vote for him then as a reason for having his mugshot taken as if all black folks have a record"

**
59.@stephanieclark6154
"Homie don't play THAT!!!!"
-snip-
"Homie don't play that" was the signature statement that the character "Homie Da Clown" made in the African American comedic skit series In Living Color. 

**
60. @thecrow7483
"A con man at sneaker con with a con pair of sneakers"

**
62. @sharonwilliams6082
"Heck no too the no"

**
63. @greatboniwanker
"Selling in "Potus White" <WtF!!> or "T-Red" but the picture shows some bs gold kicks!"

****
SOURCE #4
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fox-news-raymond-arroyo-trump-sneakers_n_65d791f3e4b0189a6a7d3e94 "Fox News Pundit Insists Trump Sneakers Will Win Him Black Votes"

Raymond Arroyo said the $399 shoes are a way for Trump to connect with Black voters because "they love sneakers, published by David Moye, Feb 22, 2024

1. James Matthews
"So this is what Fox News thinks of us (the blacks)? ‘Dangle some over priced ugly, no style sneakers in front of us and you got our vote?’ Not only is this patronizing it’s insulting in subtle racism.

File this under reason number 5,543,890,543,676,986,123 why this brother will never be a Republican."

**
2. Michael Riley
"Why stop at shoes?  Trump fried chicken and watermelon is just around the corner! /s"

**
3. Roberta T. Geraldo
"Black Trump supporters-this is what Republicans think of you. Remember that when you go to the polls, or are trashing us women of color when we shake our heads at how you can support someone that sees you all as “Jamal”.

You see not one attempt to truly appeal to EVERYONE with decent American policies, but back-handed insults insinuating that Black men will vote based on a beat up, run over TEMU shoe. 🤦🏼‍♀️"
-snip-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temu_(marketplace)
"Temu is an online marketplace operated by the Chinese e-commerce company PDD Holdings.[6][7] It offers heavily discounted consumer goods[8] which are mostly shipped to consumers directly from China.[9][10]"...
-snip-
Temu products are very inexpensive, but some people believe that the quality of those products is  poor. 

**
4. S K
"Pretty sure that's not gonna work out the way he thinks it will."

**
5. Dan D
"Sounds a bit racist and assuming to me."

**
Reply
6. S K
"Maybe just a lil' bit..."

**
7. Tom A
"Trump doesn’t make these sneakers. He’s just selling his name for them. The sneakers are made by a shady company operating out of a UPS box. In their write up they say, the sneakers are not guaranteed to look as shown in the mock-ups. The real sneakers will not be made until August or later. No returns, no guarantees. Ha."

**
Reply
8. B K
"Can’t wait to see the garbage that people will get for $400, what fools"

**
9. PhiltheMachinist
"Put some taps on those shoes and tell the black folk to get to dancin'."

**
10.  Think Please
"This seems at least a little be like a racial stereotype, don't you think?"

**
11. Evelyn Bain
"They think a pair of extremely overpriced hideously ugly sneakers is going to make up for his lifetime of racist comments and actions?"

**
12. JA hudgens
" How They   Still See Us"
-snip-
This comment has a poster attached to it. The poster shows a Black man playing a banjo as depicted in the late 19th century minstrel period. The poster also has the words “Oh Dem Golden Slippers".

**
13. Delvon Ramirez
"There you have it, folks, proof that racists at Fox see Black Americans as "they." They don't see Black Americans as "us" in this country. SMH."

**
12. Delvon Ramirez
"The idiotic shoes win ridicule for Trump from any demographic."

**
13. undrgrnd girl
"african american connoisseurs of sneakers aren't fooled by trumps racist ploy or his poorly made shoes that don't seem to even exist yet."

**
14. Clyde A Armstrong II
"Anybody willing to throw down 400 bucks for trashy sneakers proves how well the economy is actually doing. Thanks, Joe!"
-snip-
"Joe"= United States President Joe Biden

**
15. Anastasia Beaverhousen
" "So when you have Trump roll out his sneaker line, they’re like, ‘Wait a minute, this is cool,’” he continued. “He’s reaching them on a level that defies and is above politics...”

 

This has got to be one of the most racist and simultaneously ridiculous things I've ever heard anyone say. And that's saying a lot.

Wow."

**
16. Tom Lloyd
"The shoes look like part of a clown costume which is fitting for Republicans."

**
17. James Herrick
"Let them wear sneakers. Imperious condescension worthy of the plantation."

**
18. victor lawrence
"Just wait till Trump Chicken & Waffles opens in the hood."

**
19. ch ga
"Ya can't make this stuff up"

**
20. victor lawrence
"Trump was on QVC selling MAGA-ritas, in an effort to attract Latinos..."

**
21. carl schnur
"Trump made it ok to say outrageous and racist things."

**
Reply
22. Stephen Stafford
"No. That is never okay.

 

Trump does nothing to copy or emulate."

**
23. Matt Mason
"Naturally Fox Noise go straight for the racist jugular..."
-snip-
Attached to this comment is a photo that looks like the Mad Magazine icon. The photo has the words

“CONGRATES!!
YOU’VE UNLOCKED THE NEXT LEVEL OF STUPID!"

**
24. Deanna Perkins
"I mean, really? Not even trying to hide their racism anymore, huh? Ignorant jerks!"

****

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome. 
   

Selected Comments From A Mudcat Folk Music Discussion Thread On "Jim Along Josie" (2002-2009)

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision - Nov. 24, 2023

This pancocojams post presents some comments* from the Mudcat folk music forum about the 19th century song "Jim Along Josie".

The content of this post is presented for historical, folkloric, and cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all Mudcat members and guests who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
*Comments written on Mudcat discussion forum are referred to as "posts".

This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series on the 19th century American song "Jim Along Josie".. Click the "Jim Along Josie" tag for other pancocojams posts about this song. 

****
PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
Nov. 24, 2023 Update: I just realized that Guest Richie (comment #1) included misinformation that I unwittingly wrote in a cocojams page [published around 2001 -2002] about "Jim Along Josie".  I'm referring to Guest Richie's statement that a "josie" was a name for a woman's undergarment.

I also just realized that the paragraph under the title "Slave Dance Songs (on-line)" in Guest Richie's comment that is given as #5 in this pancocojams compilation was quoted from that same cocojams page that focused on the dance song "Jim Along Josie"  I wrote the description that was given on that page which Guest Richie quoted. My main source for that description wasThomas W. Talley's 1922 book Negro Folk Rhymes: Wise And Otherwise
 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/27195/27195-h/27195-h.htm. pages 296-297. I don't have a copy of that cocojams page (or any cocojams page) and don't recall if I added a citation for that book on that page.

Several Mudcat members on that discussion thread questioned the source for the information that I shared about the meaning of the word "josie" in reference to the song "Jim Along Josie", on that Mudcat discussion thread, resulting in one guest emailing me. (That is how I learned about Mudcat). I returned his email and in 2004 I wrote a comment as a guest to that forum which corrected that misinformation about the word "josie" that I had included in that 2001 or 2002 cocojams page. .All of those comments (except for guest's email to me, but including guest's recollection of my initial reply to his query about the source I used for the meaning of the word "josie") are given below in this pancocojams  compilation.

In August or September 2004, shortly after I wrote that comment correcting my erroneous information about one meaning of the word "josie", I joined the Mudcat folk music forum.  I remained a very active member of that online forum until the middle of November 2014 (with some periods of publishing gaps after 2011). My main interest on that forum was American  children's recreational rhymes and children's singing games. 

**
This pancocojams compilation doesn't include all of the comments that I wrote on that Mudcat discussion thread about "Jim Along Josie". I didn't include all of my comments on that discussion thread because some of them were a little off-topic or a lot off-topic. That said, I did include one of my off-topic comments in this compilation because I felt/and still feel strongly about what I wrote.

**
As is the case with most Mudcat discussion threads, this Mudcat discussion thread about the song "Jim Along Josie" is still open for comments (as of the publishing date of this pancocojams post.) I wrote the last comment in that discussion thread that includes content (in March 2009). That comment isn't included in this compilation because it mostly consists of me conversing with the previous commenter. The actual last comment in that discussion thread as of Nov. 22, 2023 consists of a possible troll posting with just the screen name "Guest IvanB" and no content.

****
SELECTED COMMENTS
I'm aware that my choice of comments for this pancocojams compilation could be considered somewhat arbitrary. People interested in this subject are encouraged to read the entire discussion thread.

These comments are written as they are found in that discussion thread with the exception of what is now called "the n word" since I use amended spelling for that word on this blog and elsewhere.

These selected comments from that Mudcat folk music forum are quoted without any explanatory notes.

Numbers are added to comments in this compilation for referencing purposes only

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=52464&messages=60&page=1

1.
Subject: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 01:34 AM

"Are the "Jim Along Josie/Josey" lyrics related to several songs including "Limber Jim/Buck-Eyed Jim," "Cotton-Eyed Joe," "Jaybird Died of the Whoopin' Cough?"

Here is a verse of the 1840 Minstrel lyrics:

Now way down south, not very far off,
A bullfrog died wid de hooping cough,
And de other side of Mississippi as you must know,
Dare's where I was christen'd Jim Along Joe.

 

One 1853 version: "Here come a little gal wid a josey on;" (using the word, josey, as a type of under garment). Any more info on this?

Other versions of Jim Along Josie?

Thanks,

Richie

****
2.
Subject: Lyr Add: JIM ALONG JOSIE (Play-party song)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 02:04 AM

Tom Glazer's Treasury of Folk Songs has it as a play-party song:

Hey Jim Along, Jim Along Josie,
Hey Jim Along, Jim Along Jo,
Hey Jim Along, Jim Along Josie,
Hey Jim Along, Jim Along Jo.

Walk Jim Along, Jim Along Josie,
Walk Jim Along, Jim Along Jo,
Walk Jim Along, Jim Along Josie,
Walk Jim Along, Jim Along Jo.

Hop Jim Along, Jim Along Josie,
Hop Jim Along, Jim Along Jo,
Hop Jim Along, Jim Along Josie,
Hop Jim Along, Jim Along Jo.

(Or anything else you can think of,

like crawl, roll, swing, etc.)

Somewhat similar text in the Handy Play-Party Book which cites its source as Katherine F. Rohrbough of Greene County, New York, about 1870.

Hey, Jim along, Jim along Josie,
Hey, Jim along, Jim along Joe!
Any pretty girl that wants a beau, sing,
Hey, Jim along, Jim along Joe!

Click to play

Here are the dance instructions:

FORMATION: The Virginia Reel formation:

four to six couples, boys in one line, facing partners in opposite line.

ACTION: Old Virginia Reel figures used. Preceding the individual action the lines all advance and go through the first 5 movements with partners opposite. All clap the first note of each 8 beats. All clap in time to the refrain.

Movements are summarized here:
1.First girl and last boy forward and bow (4 measures) All movements repeated immediately by first boy and last girl---another 4 measures.

2.Turn with the right hand around.

3. Turn with both hands joined.

4. Back to back, pass by the right (Dos-a-dos).

5. Back to back, by the left shoulders.

6. First couple chassez the center (slide step) to the foot of the set and back to place, with both hands joined.

7. Right hand to your partner and reel. (Right to your partner, left to the side.)*

8. Head couple comes back up the center and all follow down the outside.

9. Join hands with partners, return to place and make an arch.

10. Head couple goes under arch to the foot. Repeat from beginning with new (second) couple at the head.

Too damn complicated for me...

****
3.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: John Minear
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:40 AM

Richie, I'm interested in your suggestion of a possible connection between "Jim Along Josie" and the "Limber Jim/Buckeye Jim" tradition. You can find a discussion of "Limber Jim/Buckeye Jim" here. There is obviously a connection between the lyrics about

Now way down south, not very far off,
A bullfrog died wid de hooping cough,

from "Jim Along, Josie" and,

Way down yonder in a wooden trough,
An old lady died with the whooping cough.

which is from "Limber Jim".

 

But I am more intrigued by the phrase "Jim along, Josie". It reminds me of "go limber, Jim, you can't go". We were never able to really pin down what "go limber, Jim" meant. I wonder what "Jim along" means. And is there any significance to the use of "Jim"? Is it more than a name? It would seem so in the "Jim along, Josie" context.

Masato, I appreciate your thoroughness in laying out the minstrel background of this piece. I've never come across anything similar for "Limber Jim/Buckeye Jim" and would imagine that it is later than the minstrel tradition but draws floating verses/phrases from that tradition. - T.O.M.

****
4.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:51 AM

JIM ALONG JOSIE:

Now way down south, not very far off,
A bullfrog died wid de hooping cough,
And de other side of Mississippi as you must know,
Dare's where I was christen'd Jim Along Joe.

Hey get along, get along Josey,
Hey get along, Jim along Joe!

BUCK-EYED JIM:

Way up yonder above the moon,
A jay-bird lived in a silver spoon.
Way down yonder in a sycamore trough
An old lady died with the whoopin'-cough.

Go limber, Jim; you can't go.
Go weave and spin, you can't go, Buckeye Jim.

JAYBIRD DIED OF THE WHOOPIN' COUGH also BILE DEM CABBAGE:

Jaybird died of the whoopin' cough,
Sparrow died of the colic.
'Long come a frog with a fiddle on his back
Inquirin' his way to the frolic.

-Richie

****
5.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 08:06 AM

Turtle Old Man-

Here's more info. It's not clear if this was in the African- American tradition before 1838, which is the date I have for "Jim Along Josie," or the song became part of the tradition after becoming popular.

From Slave Dance Songs (on-line):

"Jim-Along-Josey" appears have been a popular dance song among enslaved African American in the late 19th century. Adults performed this partner dance almost the same way as square dancing is performed. A man who didn't dance called out the moves that the people had to do. A fiddle (violin) and other instruments would play the music for the dancing. The dancing would go on for a long time because the caller would remember as many verses as he could and also would make up (improvise) new verses to chant. "Jim" is a still common nickname for the male name "James". "Josey" was a common man's or woman's nickname (from "Joseph" or "Josephine"). "Josey" was also the name of an article of under clothing. "Josey" was also used as a name of this dance step. "The phrase "all the go" is like the current slang phrase "all that". They are both used to refer to something that is considered the best, or the most favorite, or something that is the done in the latest, most popular style. The sentence "the bullfrog died with the whooping cough" appears in a number of African American slavery and immediate post-slavery folk songs. The "whooping cough" is probably a reference to a disease called tuberculosis. "Jim Along Josie" is found in quite a few American folk songs books. Unfortunately, these books rarely mention the song's African American origin.

-Richie"

****
6.
Subject RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 10:46 AM

"Here's some info about Jim Along Josie and Cotton Eyed Joe:

 A HORSE NAMED ROVER:

The 'B' part is a common strain which can be found in collections from European countries (Germany), and in the chorus of the American minstrel ditty "Jim Along Josey" (1840). A version of the tune is found in Ford (1940, pg. 60) as "Cotton Eyed Joe." (From Ceolas)

COTTON EYED JOE:

Verse: Way back yonder a long time ago
Daddy knew a man called Cotton-eyed Joe
Blew into town on a travelin' show
Nobody danced like the Cotton-eyed Joe.

CHORUS: Cotton-eyed Joe, Cotton-eyed Joe
Where did you come from? Where did you go?
Where did you come from? Where did you go?
Where did you come from Cotton-eyed Joe?

JIM ALONG JOSIE:

Now way down south, not very far off,
A bullfrog died wid de hooping cough,
And de other side of Mississippi as you must know,
Dare's where I was christen'd Jim Along Joe.

Hey get along, get along Josey,
Hey get along, Jim along Joe!
Hey get along, get along Josey,
Hey get along, Jim along Joe!

 -Richie

****
7.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: masato sakurai
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 11:35 AM

From "The Journal of an African Cruiser," by An Officer of the U.S. Navy, in The United States Democratic review, Volume 16, Issue 83 (J.& H.G. Langley, etc., May 1845, p. 483) [N.B. the date]:

"August 2, 1843.--Liberia.--We were visited by Governor Roberts, Dr. Day, and General Lewis, the latter being Colonel Secretary, and military chief of the Settlement. They looked well, and welcomed me back to Liberia with the cordiality of old friendship. The Governor was received by the Commodore, Captain and officers, and saluted with eleven guns. He and his suite dined in the cabin, and some of the officers of the Porpoise in the ward-room. In the evening, we brought out all our forces for the amusement of our distinguished guests. First, the negro band sang 'Old Dan Tucker,' 'Jim along Josey,' and other ditties of the same class, accompanied by violin and tambourine. Then Othello played monkey, and gave a series of recitations. [...]" (p. 483)"

A parody of "Jim Along Josey," from The Living age ... (Volume 9, Issue 110) (New York etc.: The Living age co. inc. etc., June 20, 1846, p. 627).

~Masato"

****
8.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: masato sakurai
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 12:01 PM

From S. Foster Damon, "Notes to 'Jim Along Josey' [Firth & Hall edition (1840)]", in Series of Old American Songs (Brown University Library, 1936, No. 24):

"Jim Along Josey" was another sweeping success in the burnt-cork tradition. It was written by Edward Harper, who sang it in his drama, The Free Nigger of New York, about 1838 (E.L. Rice: Monarchs of Minstrelsy, p 24). In February 1839, John Washington Smith was singing it at the Bowery Amphitheater (Odell: Annals IV, 324). Thereafter, everybody sang it. It was developed into a number of extravaganzas and afterpieces: Jim Along Josey (Chatham Theater, 1840); Jim Along Josey, or the Ticket Taker (Bowery, 1840); The Black Ghost, or the Nigger Turned Physician (1841); and The Masquerade (1843).

The stricter sects, which prohibited dancing, whether square or round, admitted "Jim Along Josey" as a game and not a dance, although to uncritical eyes the players seemed to be doing something easily mistaken for a Virginia reel. For the game, see the Journal of American Folk Lore (XXIV, 295 ff): "Play Parties and Games of the Middle West"."

****
9.
Subject: Lyr Add: JIM ALONG JOSIE
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 02:11 PM

"JIM ALONG JOSIE

From: Slavery Dance Song's (On-line)

Caller: Oh, I'm from Louisiana, as you all know
           That's where Jim-Along-Josey's all the go.
           The *Black folk's rise when the bell do ring
           And this is the song that they do sing:

 Group: Hey get along Jim-Along Josey
             Hey get along Jim Along Jo!

 Caller:  Away down south, a long ways off, 
              The bullfrog died with the whooping cough. 
              And on the other side of Mississippi, as you know 
              Thats where I first called Jim Along Jo.       

 Group:  Hey get along Jim-Along Josey!
              Hey get along Jim Along Jo!

 Notes: *I believe this was edited here for racial content. Chorus is similar (Hey! Black-eyed Susie) also to "Black-Eyed Susie". The phrase "all the go" is like the current slang phrase "all that". They are both used to refer to something that is considered the best, or the most favorite, or something that is the done in the latest, most popular style. (see notes in my above post)."

 ****
10.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 02:16 PM

"Collections of secular Negro folk rhymes (White, Talley, Odum, etc.) are full of material the Negroes obtained from blackface minstrels. Songs such as Jim Along Josie, Kemo Kimo and Jim Crow quickly entered Negro folk music from the minstrel source. The shipboard vignette provided by Masato is an important illustration of this fact.

Did some of the rhymes, which are used over and over in several different songs (Jaybird, animals with (w)hooping cough, way up yonder, etc.) originate with blacks? Possible, but almost impossible to document because they were not collected until late. When collectors became active, after the Civil War, attention focused on the spiritual songs. The large body of secular songs and dances were ignored until after 1900. By then, it was too late to be certain of origins.

The many sources checked by Dena Epstein for her work on pre-Civil War Negro music ("Sinful Tunes and Spirituals") turned up very little. Interviews for the Slave Narrative may contain some information on the party songs, but too few of the interviewers were interested in music. There are tantalizing remarks in the few I looked at. The former slave will say something like "We used to sing a song about..." but the interviewer will push on to another topic. One of the few was found by Katlaughing (Go tell Aunt Rhoda variant).

One interesting verse in Epstein:

Hurra for good ole Massa,
He give me de pass to go to the city.
Hurra for good ole Missus,
She bile de pot and gie me de licker.
Hurra, I'm goin' to de city.

 

If there was a minstrel troupe in town, slaves on a pass would pick up the songs and make them their own. As pre-Civil War references show, the slaves were sometimes made to sing and entertain the master and his guests. Unfortunately, there are very few references to song content.

Slaves from different plantations would meet briefly and pass on all sorts of information while carrying out tasks for the master (freighting supplies, taking produce and materials to the mills, etc.). Songs and jokes would certainly be included in the gossip."

****
11.

Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 12:42 AM

"TWO MORE EXAMPLES:

1. Yaller Gal with a Josey on, The Baltimore: F. D. Benteen, 1849. As sung by Nightingale Ethiopian Serenaders

 

I see'd a dashing yaller gal,
One day upon the levee,
Her form was round her step was light
But wa'nt her bustle heavy!

She cast a tender glance on me,
And my heart was gone Oh!
She was the taring yaller gal,
That had a josey on,

Chorus: Oh yes, we all remember her
She used to hoe the corn,
She's the dashing yaller gal
That had a Josey on.

2. From Bert Mayfield was born in Garrard County, May 29, 1852, two miles south of Bryantsville on Smith Stones place.

 One song we would always sing was:

 Who ting-a-long? Who ting-a-long?
Who's been here since I've been gone?
A pretty girl with a josey on.

-Richie"

****
12.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 07:46 AM

"Here are some of my notes from Warner's web-site on tom P. Smith (Joe's last post):

HEY, GET ALONG JOSIE. (Git Along Josie) Tom Smith, b. Guyandotte, W. VA. NYC, 1952. Damon calls the song "Jim Along Josie", and says it was written by New York minstrel-performer Edward Harper in 1838. Frank Warner remembered the song from his childhood in Tennessee and North Carolina.

Tom Smith was a dignified gentleman and a neighbor in Greenwich Village. Mr. Smith had grown up in the 1890's in Huntington, West Virginia, which had been a stop on the road for those headed west in the nineteenth century. His father had learned songs from a mountain woman hired to sew for the family and his mother's family had brought many English songs to Virginia. Mr. Smith learned songs from African-Americans in town and minstrel era songs too. He was also a polished storyteller and a grand talker.

Peggy And Mike Seeger have a version on American Folk Songs for Children, Rounder. Anyone have those lyrics?

-Richie"

****
13.
Subject: Lyr Add: JIM ALONG JOSIE (Oklahoma versin)
From: masato sakurai
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 08:53 AM

"Peggy and Mike's version is from Ruth Crawford Seeger's American Folk Songs for Children (Doubleday, 1948, pp. 72-75; with music):

JIM ALONG JOSIE

(OKLAHOMA)

1. Hey jim along, jim along Josie,
Hey jim along, jim along Jo.
Hey jim along, jim along Josie,
Hey jim along, jim along Jo.

2. Walk jim along, jim along Josie,
Walk jim along, jim along Jo. (Repeat)

3. Hop jim along, jim along Josie,
Hop jim along, jim along Jo.

IMPROVISATION and RHYTHMIC PLAY: Josie may have thoughts or motions other than those in the traditional yext given above.

4. Run, jim along, jim along Josie, etc.

5. Jump, jim along, jim along Josie, etc.

6. Tiptoe along, jim along Josie, etc.

7. Crawl along, jim along, jim along Josie, etc.

8. Swing along, sing along, jim along Josie, etc.

9. Roll, jim along, jim along Josie, etc.

 

An invitation is sometimes appreciated:

 

Let's go walking, jim along Josie, etc.
Let's go running, jim along Josie, etc.
Let's sit down now, jim along Josie, etc.

For rhythmic play the music should be repeated many times without stopping. The words will probably be sung only once, or not at all.

ACCOMPANIMENT: Speed and type of accompaniment may be adapted to the various rhythmic activities. The sample variations which follow are suggestions only. Do not use them if you can make your own. In all of them the chordal basis is the same.

The simple dance-song Jim Along Josie is said to be based on an old minstrel song. It is widely known, especially as a game or play-party song. In some versions Josie appears to be the dance itself:

Hold my mule while I dance Josie.

In a very old one, still sung, "Josie" is something to wear:

Who's been here since I been gone?
Pretty little girl with a josey on.

"Hey jim along" is also sung "Hey get along," "Hi come along," "Hey jam along," "Come-a-get along," "Come-a-high, jim along."

~Masato"

****

Subject: Lyr Add: JIM-ALONG JOSIE (from Vance Randolph)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 01:25 PM

"A few late-collected verses from Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, vol. 3 (revision) pp. 385-386.

Had an old horse, his name was Ball,
Hitched him up but he wouldn't pull at all.

Cho.

Hey jim-along, jim-along Josie,
Hey, jim-along, jim-along Jo.

Swung my hick'ry an' Ball he sprung
We bid fare-thee-well to the wagon tongue.

Fire in the mountain, fun, boys, fun,
Cat's in the cream jug, run, gals, run.

Hogs in the 'tater patch, that I know,
Cows in the cornfield told me so.

First to the white house, then to the jail,
Tore my pants on a rusty nail.

Old dog Towser standin' on the gate,
Smelled meat a-fryin' an' he said he couldn't wait.

1926, Mrs Elizabeth Typer, Arkansas.

 

Ducks in the mill pond, geese in the clover,
Tell them pretty gals I'm a-comin' over.
How you gittin' 'long, gittin' 'long, Josie?
How you gittin' 'long, gittin' 'long, Jo?

1928, Clyde Sharp, MO"

****
14.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 16 Oct 02 - 11:15 PM

"Turtle Old Man-

Here are some thoughts about the meaning of the title, "Jim Along Josey."

In the title "Jim Along Josey" the word- Josey, is used as a name (could be a man's or woman's name) The word "Josey" is an African-American dance step and also a minstrel slang for a type of undergarment. The word, Jim, is not really used for a name. "Get Along Josey" could just as easily be substituted for "Jim Along Josey."

There is one version posted entitled, "Git Along Josie"

Just don't ask me what "King Kong Kitchie Kitchie Ki-Me-O" means!

-Richie"

****
15.

Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 12:29 AM

"In the older versions, "Sing Song" is used. I believe King Kong is a later change to make it sound more African. Similarly, "won't you try me, oh" seems earlier. "Kitchie" seems to be a later, more nonsensical rendering.

Is Josey an undergarment? I believe that the word comes from joseph, a riding cloak for a woman, and the sort of get-up that well might appear in a minstrel show. Josephs were worn as late as the 1860s (reference to one by George Elliot)."

****
16.

Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 05:55 PM

"Would still like to know what the authority is for josey being an undergarment. www.cocojams.com has that statement under Jim-along-josie, but cite no basis for that statement."

****
17.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 10:47 PM

"Guest-

 Perhaps we could try and E-mail the site.

 Personally, I really like your info about Josey being derived from a "joseph, a riding cloak for a woman, and the sort of get-up that well might appear in a minstrel show."

 

That was excellent and it sure makes more sense to me.

Who is George Elliot? Do you have any other info about this?

 

-Richie"

****
18.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 03:28 PM

"Azizi Powell of Cocojams kindly answered with these comments:

"Thomas Talley's Negro Folk Songs" is where "Jim Along Josey" is found. Here, "Josie" is a girl's name (nickname for Josephine?). This predates blackface minstrels. I also recall songs that mentioned a girl with a "josey" on or taking off her josey. Your definition is probably the correct one. Mine was a guess. I appreciate the information and I'll write you back with the sources for these songs and will do other research because I saw josey as clothing mentioned in some book about word origins.

I'll check it out, and thanks for contacting. It was my hope that this kind of exchange would occur as a result of the site. Sorry that I haven't had the funding to continue putting new examples on. I don't know HTML and haven't been able to recruit someone to assist me with this project."

I will email back and point out the many threads here at Mudcat, and a little on how to access them. The email address she(?) provided is azizip17@hotmail.com.

I couldn't find "Jim Along Josey" in Talley's Negro Folk Rhymes (1990 ed.). There may be another book called Negro Folk Songs.

 

Ian, obviously I don't know much about female British authors (except for 20th century crime writers). I pulled my remarks off Google. She came up because she made the latest reference to a joseph that I could find. I was interested in how long that name was used for that kind of cloak and found her quote in the OED."

****
19.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 11:44 PM

"It's easy to see the folk process at work here. Compare the above post to the third verse of my original post:

Oh! When I get dat new coat I expects to hab soon,
Likewise new pair tight-kneed trousaloon,
Den I walk up and down Broadway wid my Suzanna,
And the white folks will take me to be Santa Anna.

 

Thanks to all who have contributed."

 
****
20. 
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:35 AM

"I'm writing this to correct information I made some two years ago on my website cocojams.com that I see have found there way here and Lord knows where else. Let me first apologize and offer the following information as a way of making up for any confusion I caused.

Firstly, I wrote that Jim Along Josey is included in Thomas Talley's 1922 Negro Folk Rhymes. I was mistaken. The versions I was speaking of are found in Dorothy Scarborough's 1925 book on the Trail Of Negro Folk Songs. That Folklore Associates' edition of Scarborough's book, published in 1963 has three different versions of Jim Along Josie {pps 104-106), one called Jim Along, Josey, one called Hold My Mule, and one that Scarborough notes is "a variant of the Josey song".

I also said that a josey was a woman's undergarment. I was wrong. As someone wrote in this thread or another, "Josey" is a woman's coat. See John Russell Bartlett, The Dictionary of Americanisms: New York Crescent Books, originally published 1849. "Joseph, a very old riding coat for women, scarcely now to be seen or heard of-Forby's Vocabulary. A garment made of Scotch plaid, for an outside coat or habit, was wornin New England about the year 1830, called a Joseph by some a Josey.

    Olivia was drawn as an Amazon, sitting upon a bank of
    flowers, dressed in a green Joseph.-Godsmith, Vicar of Wakefield .

I still believe that is "Josey" was {sometimes}used as dance name. See the lines "Hold my mule while I dance Josey

       Hold my mule while I dance Josey
       Hold my mule while I dance Josey
       Oh, Miss Susan Brown."

 

The other two verses given are: "Wouldn't give a nickel if I couldn't dance Josey". and "Had a glass of buttermilk and I danced Josey".

 

However it may be possible that an earlier name for the "Josey" dance was "Jim Along, Josey." In that case "Jim Along" probably was the equivalent of the phrase "Get a-long", which Scarborough uses in the chorus of this song "Hey, get a-long, get a-long, Josey

                     Hey, get a-long, Jim a-long, Jo!
                     Hey, get a-long, get a-long Josey,
                     Hey, get a-long, Jim a-long Jo!

  

I find it interesting that Scarborough consistently uses a comma in the title and "Jim Along" lines. This may reinforce the notion that "Jim Along" means the same thing as "Get along". But sometimes a word may have multiple meanings in the same song perhaps because the lines are mixed and matched by different people, and often the song changes over time and space. So the 3rd verse of Scarborough's first version of "Jim Along, Josey" reads
                     Away down south, a long ways off
                     A bullfrog died wid de whooping-cough
                     And t'other side of Mississippi, as you know
                     Was whar I was called fust Jim A-long Jo.

 

In that context, anyway, a person {one can assume a man} was given the nickname Jim Along,Jo. Probably then his name was Joe and he got along?? Who?? Where? How? Oh well,I'm not going to continue this speculation...

 But, since I don't think that I have seen the variant version that Scarborough shared in your database {though that doesn't mean it's not there}, I'll include it in this message.

 "Here is a variant of the Josey song, that combines stanzaas from other well-known favorites, This was sent to me by Virginia Fitzgerald, from Virginia.

 As I was going up a new-cut road,
I met a Tarrepin an' a Toad.
Every time the Toad would jump,
The Tarrepin dodge behind a stump.
O! rall, rall Miss Dinah gal,
O! do come along, my darling!
O! rall, rall, Miss Dinah gal,
O! do come along, my darling!
My ole Missis promise me
When she died she'd set me free'
Now ole Missis dead an' gone,
She lef' olde Sambo hillin' up corn.

Hey, Jim a-long, Jam a-long a-Josie,
Hey, Jim a-long, Jam a-long, Joe!
Hey, Jim a-long, Jam a-long, from Baltimo'!
You go round an' I go through
.......................

You get there befo' i do,
Tell 'em all I'm comin' too.

Hey, Jim a-long, Jam a-long, Josie
Hey, Jim a-long, Jam a-long, Joe!
Hey, Jim a-long, Jam a-long, from Baltimo'

--

It should be noted that "You get there before I do, tell my friends I'm coming to" is a floating verse found in a number of African American spirituals.

Also, let me take this opportunity to thank you for the interesting information and often insightful comments found on this website!

Ms. Azizi Powell"

****
21.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 07:56 AM

"Sam Cowell - the great Sam Cowell said he wrote Jim Along Josie. He claimed to have written lots of songs that he didn't though. He did, however grow up singing with Black Americans. He was born in 1820 and left America in 1840. Nothing conclusive there but a piece of the puzzle.

Cheers, Joy"

 ****
22.
Subject: RE: Jim Along Josie: lyrics and origin
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 13 Sep 06 - 11:53 AM

"The distinguished actor and vocalist Madame Lucia Vestris sang a parody of 'Jim Along Josey' in an extravaganza based on 'Beauty and the Beast' in Covent Garden in the late 1840s. The song (by Planché) was published as 'The Celebrated Rose Song: Oh get along - get along do!' The lithographed portrait figure on the sheet music front shows Vestris in character in oriental dress with what appears to be a slightly dusky complexion. It would be interesting to know whether she blacked up (even if ever so slightly) for the part.

A collection of minstrel songs published by Turner & Fisher (NY and Philadelphia) about 1840, entitled 'Jim Along Josey Roarer, an entire new collection of negro songs' (running title 'Nigga Songs') testifies to the popularity of JAJ at that time. The title page decoration is of a dancing, barefoot figure in what may be sailor attire. It has all the characteristics of contemporary caricatures of African Americans.

Publishers and performers of early minstrel songs seemed to be happy to blur the origins of their material until such time as primacy and profit became serious issues. Harper, like Cowell claimed JAJ, and no doubt they and other minstrels did invent songs in the genre. I can't myself believe that that genre itself sprang into existence in the 1830s without drawing heavily from African American sources and pre-existing songs. But..."

 ****
23.
Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
From: GUEST,Gibb
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 11:05 PM

"I've recently come across a reference to another possible relative of "Jim Along Josey"; thought I'd plug it into this old thread if that's OK.

Well, "Haul Away Joe"/"Haul Away for Rosie" is one of the best known chanteys. I'd never felt that much one way or the other what its source might be. Anyway, JG Jewell, in AMONG OUR SAILORS (1974), wrote about sailor "songs"--apparently, although we do have references back to the 1850s (about events of 1840s), the term "chantey" was not in so wide a use yet. He writes:

"When hauling taut the weather main-brace they sing a perversion of the old negro melody, "Hey Jim along, Jim along, Josey!" but the sailors put it—

"Way, haul away—haul away, Josey—
Way, haul away—haul away, Joe!"

 I'd not come across that connection made in print before. ( I know Doerflinger (in his revised text of SONGS OF SAILOR AND LUMBERMAN) consulted Jewell, but there is a gap in his notes to "Haul Away Joe." ) It sounds like a reasonable relationship to me though; wonder what others think.

Gibb"

****
24.
Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 09:07 AM

"I started posting a response to the last post and comment about other phrases in previous post, but before doing that I feel the need to write this:

 When I read threads like this, I have to steel myself to get through the use of the "n" word and the use of the word "Negro" spelled with a small "n" instead of being capitalized like other group referents such as "British", "Jewish", "Chinese", French, Spanish, and "Japanese" are.* I mention this because I feel that it should be a matter of record on threads like this so that present day readers and future readers are/will be aware that some people have/had this reaction. The reason why I continue reading these types of threads is because I find the information interesting. However, I think that quite a few Black people might have the initial (and ongoing) negative reaction to these usages, and as a consequence of that, they stop reading the thread and other threads in this forum. Which is a shame, for a whole host of reasons.

 *There was a concerted, hard fought movement by Black Americans in the mid to late 1950s to get newspapers and text books and other public media and private entities to capitalize the "n" in the word "Negro". That movement was successful, but shortly thereafter the formal group referent changed first to "Afro-Americans" and then to (what it is now} "African Americans".

 Note that the referent "African American" is always capitalized. There is more leeway with the accepted informal group referent "Black"(people). Some people capitalize the beginning letter, and some people don't. I always capitalize it and also always capitalize the "w" in White (people) because of that practice I mentioned earlier.

I should also note that sometimes African Americans will purposely use the word "Negro" with either a capital "n" or a small "n" to refer to Black Americans who the writers believe are talking and/or acting in ways that are detrimental to overall Black interests and stature (to put it another way, these people are said to be acting like "Toms". "Toms" is a short form of the insulting referent Uncle Tom).

**

With that said for the record, I'll add another post to this thread with my thoughts about the name "Josie" and other comments about some phrases found in a previously posted example of this dance song."

****
25.

Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 09:35 AM

" "Way, haul away—haul away, Josey—
Way, haul away—haul away, Joe!"

It occured to me when I read Guest Gibs post that I know a woman whose name is "Josie". "Josie" used to be a far more common nickname for Josephine than it is now, probably because the name "Josephine" is rarely given now). As it happens, this African American woman's given name is "Josie" and not "Josephine".

 

But this thought made me wonder about the name "Josey" as a personal name for a man as found in that old dance song. In particular, I thought of how a non-Spanish speaking person might pronouce tghe name "Jose" as "Joe-see". Given that some crews came from the Caribbean, has the Spanish language influence on chantey songs-and on other African American/Black Caribbean dance songs been identified?"...

****

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=52464&messages=60&page=2

26.

Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
From: GUEST,Gibb
Date: 03 Mar 09 - 10:39 PM

"Hi Azizi,

You wrote:

"But this thought made me wonder about the name "Josey" as a personal name for a man as found in that old dance song. In particular, I thought of how a non-Spanish speaking person might pronouce tghe name "Jose" as "Joe-see". Given that some crews came from the Caribbean, has the Spanish language influence on chantey songs-and on other African American/Black Caribbean dance songs been identified?"

 

The thing about chanteys if that, more often than not, their lyrics have nothing to do with the sea! In this case, I see no reason to search for a sea origin of "Josie" since we already have the (hypothesized) pre-chantey origin: "Jim Along Josey." Trying not to exaggerate too much, it seems like half the chanteys were made this way, taking stock, catchy, rhythmic phrases from pop tunes of the day, play songs, older work songs, folk rhymes, and jusr adapting them. To respond to your question though, I don't know of any significant influence of Spanish language on chanteys. As far as a Spanish influence on Black Caribbean dance songs, that is a pretty huge topic, but I think the answer is yes...with qualification. One would have to say where they are drawing lines at "Spanish." Much of the Caribbean dance music shares a common rhythmic sensibility. Stuff you might associate as "Cuban" (and therefore Spanish?) is shared with Jamaican music, for example. The burning question is, why are they similar? Is it because they share a common sensibility back from African music, or is it more recent cross-pollination? Anyways...

 

Back on topic...kinda....if Jim Along Josie and Haul Away Joe are relatives, that adds some pretty strong irony to our present conundrum. In this light, the use of "Haul Away Joe" on the slave ship in "Roots" is pretty absurd. And due to the Clancy Brothers' schtick, people strongly associate the chantey with the Irish (that's not to say chanteys can't have multiple associations/resonances, and Irish sailors did sing it) -- when I was searching for a thread for "Haul Away Joe," I came across one post where the person said he couldn't stand to hear that chantey sung with an American accent!

 

Gibb"

****
27.
Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 12:59 AM

"Thanks for your response, Gibb.

 

I appreciate learning that information about shanteys.

 

I often wondered why "Haul Away, Joe" was used in Roots as opposed to some other song. I suppose it was used because it was already relatively well known, though I wonder how many people knew that it was a shanty. When I watched Roots, I didn't know that term-actually I knew it in the context of huts but didn't know it in the context of songs. :o)

 

It's good to learn something new.

 

Best wishes,

 

Azizi"

****
28.

Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
From: GUEST,Gibb
Date: 04 Mar 09 - 10:15 AM

"Azizi,

 My ~guess~ as to why they would have used "Haul Away Joe" in Roots:

 It was set pre-1776. However, we don't have any evidence to exactly what chanteys might have been sung prior to the 19th century. We know there was some kind of chanteying, but it is all conjecture which of the songs (i.e. the ones known to us today) would have been used, if at all. One of the popular ones to conjecture existed back then is "Haul on the Bowline." That one has similarities to "Haul Away Joe." So my guess is that, pressed to speculate on what may have existed, they chose those two."

****

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