The West Indian And Black American Origins Of Many 19th Century Shanties (Part II: Comments from Mudcat Folk Music Forum)

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part II of a two part pancocojams series about West Indian and Black American origins of many 19th century sea shanties.

The content in this post is quoted from two selected internet articles that quote various sources.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/09/the-west-indian-and-black-american.html for Part I of this pancocojams series. That post includes some comments from various Mudcat folk music forum discussion threads on this subject. 

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the unknown composers of these sea shanties and thanks to the collectors of these work songs. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Some of the content of this pancocojams post is included in the 2022 pancocojams post entitled "Information About Sea Shanty Collector Stan Hugill And Information About Harding, A West Indian Man Who Was The Source For A Number Of Shanties." 

https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2022/03/information-about-sea-shanty-collector.html

These posts are part of an ongoing pancocojams series on African Americans and West Indians chanties (shanties). Click the tags given below for previous posts and subsequent posts on this subject. 

****
DISCLAIMER
This post isn't meant to be comprehensive. Please read these entire Mudcat discussion threads (which I believe are still open for comments as of the September 2026 date of this pancocojams post. Also, read other online and off-line sources about this subject.

****
PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTES

Some sources about sea shanties include the referent "negro" spelled with a lower case "n".

That referent for Black people -spelled with the lower case "n" or spelled with an upper case "n") is outdated and and has been considered to be very offensive for a number of decades.

That said, the use of that referent by some non-Black people in the past may not have been meant to be offensive, at least not has offensive as it is considered now (in the 2020s). 

**
The Mudcat folk music forum member whose screen name is "Gib Sahib" is the same person who is identified in Part I, Source #2 of this pancocojams series as Dr. Gibb Schreffler from the Department of Music at Claremont California's Pomona College.
  
****
COMMENTS ABOUT BLACK ORIGINS OF MANY 19TH CENTURY SEA SHANTIES
From https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7810  

1. 

Subject: RE: Where am I to go From Barry Finn Date: 23 Jul 98 - 02:46 PM "Enter into the search box, Where Am I To Go Me Johnnies*, & you'll find it there along with midi music. Hugill doesn't say much about this halyard shanty except that he got it from a fellow shantyman, Harding the Barbarian from Barbadoes, a Black sailor who had shipped on Yankee, Brittish, Bluenose & West Indian vessels, a fine shantyman & a 1st rate sailor. He also says he never seen it in print. Barry"

****
From https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=46147

1. Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Huckleberry Hunting (Pumping Chantey)
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 02:01 PM

… "I did once read through Hugill with an eye to which shanties were from Harding, but I didn't keep a strict list. My goal at the time was to sketch a rough picture of the percentages of what chanteys came from where. Needless to say, that is impossible to say with any accuracy since as many people would disagree on the origins (or dismiss the effort as rather pointless). The number of course will also vary widely depending on what you count variations. For whatever it's worth though, here are some of my stats:

Total number of shanties, not including textual variants or little "sing outs," is about 181. Usually I counted each different tune as a different chantey. "Blow the Man Down" was counted as a single chantey, despite there being "Flying Fish" version, "Blackballer" version, etc.

Of these, 78 were of "Black" origin. Out of those 78, I filed 47 as Black American and 31 as Caribbean. Keep in mind that this also includes minstrel song types, which are difficult to distinguish from authentic African-American songs of the period. Also, the Caribbean number may seem low because many of the chantey, even if learned from Harding, seemed to originate in the Southern U.S., as minstrel songs, etc.

 14 were "Irish" or Irish-American. This does not include the minstrel songs, which are often a sort of Black-Irish combo. As already noted, I included those under "Black"--a bias in my count, I guess.

8 were "American," exclusive of "Black" or "Irish."

"All Others," an undifferentiated category, numbered 80.

I did not note which were "English" specifically, though that number was comparatively few. Moreover, many of these are forebitters that Hugill admitted into the collection on the criterium that he'd hear one person say they had been used as a capstan song. A contrary statement one could make is that they are all really "English," since it was Stan, an Englishman, who sang them!

Take those numbers with several teaspoons of salt.

Gibb"

****
From https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=119776

[Pancocojams Editor's Note:
Some comments from Gib Sahib include the word "here" as a hyperlink to a online source that isn't given in those comments. I haven't added those hyperlinks in this compilation. Please refer back to those comments in that original Mudcat thread and click on that word if you are interested in following through on those hyperlinks.] 

1.Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 07:09 AM

"The Bahamian "The Captain Go Ashore" was recorded by Frederick McQueen, Andros Bahamas. And also by the Boat Band ("Take Me over the Tide, Harbourtown casette, 1990, to be reissued on CD May 1 2009 hint hint).

This is one of the shanties mentioned by Dana in "Two years before the mast", as being sung on American ships in thne 1850's. Hugill(introduction to "Shanties of the Seven Seas") thought the song was lost, but luckily Fwederick McQueen(and the Boat Band!) knew otherwise"

**
2. Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 10:47 AM

"Specifics, as always, are welcome. Thanks, guys.

It is not so much that these chanteys (not just the few I've listed so far, but the larger category) have "never" been performed, but rather that they have been performed so infrequently (or within such a limited area, as Ross suggested) that they are very poorly known to the chantey audience at large. The second part to this is, again, the issues of how the performances were created, i.e. whether they are imagined, as best as possible, from written text. I would guess that most of these recordings that one finds are recreations of the text.

The Bahamian recordings by Lomax present us with a slightly reverse scenario. We have these "authentic" versions, recorded for posterity and there is not so much of an issue of knowing what they are like (although more than one version is always helpful). Moreover, in several cases these recordings have been seized upon by revival singers and have since become both fairly well known and based on an aural source.

Abrahams' book is obviously the best source so far if we are just looking for Caribbean shanties, in conjunction with the more recent performances by the Barrouallie Whalers. But there are plenty of other chanteys that seem to have been popular back in the day, collected by Hugill, Bullen, Terry, Sharp, & Harlow that don't appear in these.

Out of the few listed so far, "Round the Corner, Sally" is definitely the most common, but I'm not sure if Hugill's significantly unique West Indian version is a part of that knowledge.

As a related note, one book that I don't seem to ever see mentioned, but which should accompany Abrahams', is Horace Beck's FOLKLORE AND THE SEA. He prints the following chanteys, having covered (in an albeit much more sketchy way) a similar ground as Abrahams:

Yado

Sam Gone Away

Ring Down Below

Ding Well

Mountains so High (related to Poor Lucy Anna / Louisiana)

Drive Her Captain Drive Her

Stormalong ("Yankee John" version)

Long Time Ago

Blow Boys Blow

Bulldog

Man o' War Sailor

Hilo

Rosabella

Old Moses

Pappy You Done Dead

 

Those being noted, the focus (for me) is not on "Caribbean" chanteys per se, it just happens that many of these chanteys in this category have been sourced from West Indian singers."

** 

3.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 11:03 AM

"So here is a summary so far of sources for the songs listed.

Mudder Dinah (Hugill's version A)

Print: Hugill, SEVEN SEAS; Bullen, SEA LABOUR + SEA WAIF

Performers: Rika Ruebsaat (?); Chris Roe /Broadside/St. Elmo's Choir

 

Mudder Dinah (version B)

Print: Hugill, SEVEN SEAS; Sharp, FOLK-CHANTEYS; Colcord (copy of Sharp)

Performers: Rika Ruebsaat (?)

 

Shinbone Al

Print:Hugill, SEVEN SEAS; Bullen; Harlow

Performers: Theresa Tooley

 

Round the Corner, Sally

Print: Hugill (a different version sung by Harding); Sharp; Terry; Dana (title only)

Performers: Paul Clayton; Theresa Tooley; more..."

**
4.
Subject: RE: "Rare" Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 11:45 AM

"In my last post I forgot to list:

 

Mudder Dinah (Version A)

Performer: Pint & Dale

 

Round the Corner Sally

Performer: Pint & Dale

 

These two seem to have used Hugill's text as a source for non-chantey style music. 

Tom Lewis also performs "Round the Corner," but in his own, new version.

Johnson Girls and Forebitter do "Roun' de Corn," a plantation song with a related phrase."

**
5. 
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Padre
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 12:12 PM

"Roger D. Abraham's book is called, "Deep the Water, Shallow the Shore (Three Essays on Shantying in the West Indies)" Published for the American Folklore Society by the University of Texas Press in 1974.

It contains the following songs:

 

A Coolie is Nobody

All through the rain and Squally Weather (Blow My Bully Boy, Blow my Blow)

Bear Away Yankee, Bear Away Boy

Blackbird Get Up

Blow the Man Down

Bully Long Time Ago

Caesar Boy, Caesar

Caesar oh Caesar

Dan-Dan-Oh

Do my Jolly Boy

Feeny Brown

Fine Time o' Day

Fire Down Below

Georgy, Me Neck-a-Broke

Gray Goose Gone Home

Haul Away, Haul Away

Hey, Bully Monday

Jane and Louisa

John,John the Water Man

Johnny Come Down with a Hilo

Judiano

Lee-Lee-o, Lee-Lee

Little Boy Lonzo

Long Time Ago

Man-o-War Sailor

Michael Row the Boat Ashore

Oh, Louisiana

Oh, Mr. Cobeau

Oh, My Rolling River (Solid fas')

Pull away Me Boy

Royo Groun'

Shub Her Down

Sintali

St. Peter Down at Courland Bay

Those Girls From Bermuda

Tinnego

We Are Bound Down South Alabama

When You Go, Tell Julia

who No Been Out

Woman Belly Ful o' Hair

Yankee John, Stormalong

Yard-o

 

The Boarding Party sang several of these songs:

Yard-o

Solid Fas'

Blackbird Get Up

Caesar, Oh Caesar"

** 
6.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 05:10 PM

"Here's another of this category:

"Walkalong, Miss Susiana Brown."

Print: Hugill; Colcord

Performance: William Fender (on Folktrax CD)

Some notes:

It is a halyard chantey. Hugill doesn't mention whom he learned it from; one presumes either Harding or "Harry Lauder."

The phrase "walkalong" is reminiscent of Gulf port cotton stowing songs, including the phamous "General Taylor / Walk-'em-along John" variant of the Stormalong theme.

The other collector who gives a version of this one is Joanna Colcord, who files it under the title "Juley." In her version, the name Susiana appears as Juliana.

There is a version of this recorded on cylinder in the James Madison Carpenter collection, by a William Fender, who notes to have learned it from a stevedore in the West Indies in 1888. It goes by the name "Saucy Anna," and though I've not heard it, I'm reasonably sure it is a related song. Mudcatter dick greenhaus notes it's inclusion on a Folktrax CD, under the title "Walkalong, You Saucy Anna," here

I know a few people here have that CD; I wonder how they would compare it to Hugill or Colcord's noted version. Of course I'd also be interested to hear whether anyone out there has included this in their repertoire.

My unripe rendition is here

I've had to alter the rhythm in one part of Hugill's notation, where it didn't make much sense; again, his transcriber seems to have been defeated by syncopation or some other irregular rhythm. Also, the notation is plagued by a common problem in his text, where the durational values on notes suddenly become doubled for a phrase, then halved again in the next phrase. I used Colcord's version to get an idea, but ultimately it is just a guess about which rhythms were really intended.

**
7.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 05:28 PM

"Jerry,

Thank you very much for your details on what Stan recorded off record. I find it interesting (but not surprising) that although his SEVEN SEAS is pretty much the largest collection of chanteys, he is only known for performing a relatively small set of those. In his later books (for numerous easy to guess reasons, I think) he trims off all these "Harding chanteys" (Perhaps that is a better way to group them!). I wonder to what extend he "knew" them them well (i.e. in order to perform them) or knew them just enough to log them in his very inclusive first book.

"John Kanaka" is a funny anomaly, since I'd put it in this category and yet Hugill evidently liked it and chose to popularize it. Maybe it was because he liked doing that yodel. Maybe the story of "samoan" lyrics was gimmicky. But for whatever reason, the very similar and probably more popular "Mobile Bay / John Come tell us as we haul away" hasn't made it to any kind of renown.

Also interesting is that the more recent, wonderful interest in Caribbean chanteying still does not quite fill the gap of what seems to be many Caribbean-or-Southern-U.S.-or-minstrel-based chanteys that were once actually well known by Euro-Americans. It's mostly a different repertoire (I think?) than that represented by Abrahams, the Nevis whalers, etc."

**
8.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: doc.tom
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 05:48 PM

"A few related notes - if they help at all!

Horace Beck: FOLKLORE AND THE SEA - his Rosabella is not the one 'everybody' sings. That came from John Short (Yankee Jack) to me & BB, thence to Collins & Mageean, thence to the world. It is one of Short's that Sharp did not publish. Short is the ONLY source apart from two close singe-verse variants noted by Carpenter.

Gibb Sahib's reference to Round the Corner Sally, above, include Sharp & Terry as sources - they both published John Short's version. At the time of publication,SHARP says: "I do not know of any printed version of this chantey, nor have I myself collected any variants", and TERRY says: "I have not heard anyone save Mr. Short sing this shanty." HUGILL - "Mentioned by Dana in Two Years Before the Mast... Terry & Sharp are the only two collectors who give it and both had it from the same shantyman, Mr. Short… My version is one of Harding's."

Similarly, with Bully In The Alley, SHARP says: "I have no variants of this nor do I know of any printed version of it." HUGILL:"Another halyard shanty of negro origin which I came across in the West Indies is Bully In The Alley. Sharp gives a version sung to him by Mr. john Short of Watchet in which all the refrains are the same but I feel that this version has all the signs of being in a worn condition, as though Mr. Short's memory, in this case, didn't serve him well... This shanty may have been one used originally by cotton screwers." In fact, Short's version is structurally different to the one Stan gives (and everybody else subseqently sings), and does appear to be much closer to an original hoosier's chant then Stan's!

It's fascinating to find that, of those shanties that Sharp/Terry published from John Short, which were not in other publications, Stan almost invariably a his own version either from 'Harding the Barbadian' or 'picked up in the West Indies'. Makes you wonder!

As to who sings them now, well, all John Short's versions of shanties (57 in all) will be newly recorded in the next 12 months in the 'Short Sharp Shanty' projects - see www.umbermusic.co.uk/s&aprojects.htm

I shall follow this thread with interest - thanks for starting it.

TomB"

**
9.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: JeffB
Date: 30 Mar 09 - 06:31 PM

"Some years ago Johnny Collins and Jim Mageean recorded "Coming of Age" (Columns Disc/ Universal Productions), a cracking good collection of 21 favourite shanties to celebrate 21 years singing together. If you can get hold of it, you will hear a number of WI shanties in fine style. Quoting their sleeve notes :-

Bully in the Alley - (WI halyards) One of several negro shanties referring to the place Shinbone Alley (geographical or anatomical?).

John Dead - (WI whaling) Collected in Barouvalie, St Vincent, by Roger Abrahams. It was used for calling out any 'chicken' negro whaler (Grey Goose [so-called in the shanty]) to come out and hunt "Mr Fox" (the whale). Brought to our attention by the fine Scottish shantyman Rob Mhacgregor.

Blackbird get up [mentioned by Padre above] - (WI whaling shanty) A shanty from Roger Abraham's collection "Deep the Water, Shallow the Shore", from the negro whalers of Barouvalie, St Vincent, who always sang this shanty when being rained upon.

The CD has a number of other shanties collected from black crews, but not necessarily Caribbean.

Not sure if you would include Florida for your purposes, but the CD also includes "Johnson girls", which the notes say was collected in 1940 from the crew of the Menhaden fishing vessel "The Boys", working out of Mayport.

A. L. Lloyd's version of "Emma let me be (Sail 'er down the bay to Julianna)" is well known, but Lloyd apparently altered the distinctive cadence of the song. Would like to know what it sounded like in the mouth of a WI shantyman. Subtle changes by collectors can be really significant, as any who can compare the "standard" version of "Sailboat Malachi" with the original recording of Frederick McQueen ("The Real Bahamas") will appreciate.

Not sure if you could strictly call it a shanty, maybe more of a stevedores' song, is "Fire Marengo".

I'm told that people of mixed race in the Caribeban in 19th cent were called "cholas", so perhaps "Shallow Brown" could be included. Admittedly, not at all rare.

Do you want to draw a line between Caribbean shanties and those sung by black American crews? If so, things could get tricky, but you would be able to include "Shiny-o", which had a
thread to itself last year."

**
10.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 02:01 PM

"Tom,
I was going to go through which of John Short's shanties were 'covered' by Stan as Harding/WestIndies - but it'll be a few weeks yet: will post when it's done. From the other direction, has anyone listed the 'Harding shanties' from Seven Seas? (or the 'picked up' for that matter).

That would be very insightful, good idea.

I did once read through Hugill with an eye to which shanties were from Harding, but I didn't keep a strict list. My goal at the time was to sketch a rough picture of the percentages of what chanteys came from where. Needless to say, that is impossible to say with any accuracy since as many people would disagree on the origins (or dismiss the effort as rather pointless). The number of course will also vary widely depending on what you count variations. For whatever it's worth though, here are some of my stats:

Total number of shanties, not including textual variants or little "sing outs," is about 181. Usually I counted each different tune as a different chantey. "Blow the Man Down" was counted as a single chantey, despite there being "Flying Fish" version, "Blackballer" version, etc.

Of these,

78 were of "Black" origin. Out of those 78, I filed 47 as Black American and 31 as Caribbean. Keep in mind that this also includes minstrel song types, which are difficult to distinguish from authentic African-American songs of the period. Also, the Caribbean number may seem low because many of the chantey, even if learned from Harding, seemed to originate in the Southern U.S., as minstrel songs, etc.

14 were "Irish" or Irish-American. This does not include the minstrel songs, which are often a sort of Black-Irish combo. As already noted, I included those under "Black"--a bias in my count, I guess.

8 were "American," exclusive of "Black" or "Irish."

"All Others," an undifferentiated category, numbered 80.

I did not note which were "English" specifically, though that number was comparatively few. Moreover, many of these are forebitters that Hugill admitted into the collection on the criterium that he'd hear one person say they had been used as a capstan song. A contrary statement one could make is that they are all really "English," since it was Stan, an Englishman, who sang them!

Take those numbers with several teaspoons of salt.

Gibb"

**
11.
Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 31 Mar 09 - 03:17 PM

"I'm going to try to make a few notes on some of the chanteys that have been mentioned.

I don't think many of the Caribbean chanteys that appear in Abrahams' book (to the extent that he also made recordings of them), or that we find reintroduced by the Nevisian whalers or in Lomax's recordings represent a broken link in oral tradition -- precisely because we have these as aural sources directly from an oral source. Many of them are indeed less known (though note the fact that, for example, that Lomax's recordings in the Bahamas, mentioned by Fred above, were drawn from by early folk revival groups). While they are less known, we have a chance of knowing them directly from an oral source.

That not only Hugill, who by happenstance got many chanteys from Black chanteymen in the Caribbean, but also Sharp, Terry, etc. collected some of the same chanteys (by name, at least) from Englishmen suggests that these were a stock of chanteys that were widely known among the international set of sailors. This may be a bit different than localized chanteys like "Feeney Brown" and such. It's the former set that I think is "extinct" or "endangered," despite us having them in print.

Then there is the category of really "lost" chanteys that we don't have much knowledge about because they have only been named in books, without many lyrics and without melody. greg stephens brought up the example of one of these that seems to have been rediscovered. Here is his thread on that topic. "Fire Maringo" would be another that could fit into that category. The issue with these is that, unless and until they are rediscovered, they remain as vague references. By contrast, the many less-known chanteys in Hugill et.al. are at least notated out.

So adding some of the chanteys that have been mentioned…

*************

"Coal Black Rose"

Print: Hugill

Performers: Tom Sullivan (recorded on "Salt Atlantic Chanteys); Finn & Haddie (here)

Notes:

Learned by Stan Hugill from Harding. It is another one of those chanteys which can be presumed to be developed from a snatch of a popular minstrel song. In this case, the song "Coal Black Rose" is believed to be one of the earliest minstrel songs, popularized by George Washington Dixon by 1829 and henceforth part of the standard repertoire of blackface performers. A copy of the sheet music to the song can be seen here

 

The opening phrases, especially about the banjo, with the onomatopoeia (as well as some of the melodic contour, I think) are similar enough to make it probable the chantey is partly derived from the popular song.

*******

"Come Down, You Bunch of Roses"

Print: Hugill, in several books; Doerflinger

Performers: hmm…very many, but few. See below

 

Notes:

Despite it being apparently very well known, I think this one belongs to this category of broken-oral-link chanteys. Doerflinger's printed version comes from another text. Hugill's come from the oral source, Harding, but so far as I know he hasn't passed that version on orally to others. In fact, he appears to later forsake Harding's version (in SEVEN SEAS) in favor of a popular revival version.

 

I've tried to analyze what I think is the trajectory of this chantey, since the end of sail, here. The gist of my argument is that Bert Lloyd refashioned the song, from who knows what, and that his version became so ubiquitous that even Hugill adopted it.

 

Now, we do have those Caribbean recordings of a sibling or parent version of the song, as noted by Fred and Barry. So there is an oral source. One question would be whether these are the same as the developed chantey.

 

I've made an attempt to recreate Hugill's original/Harding's version here

 

********

"Bully in the Alley"

 

Note that this is different than the "Shinbone Al" mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

At first glance, one might not include this one among the "broken link" chanteys of this thread, simply because Hugill recorded it. It is available to many, and many have learned it. In fact, it is so well known (in a form) that it has reached the level of Disney-fication, here and here

 

However, two points. One is that Hugill's notation of this chantey in SEVEN SEAS is significantly different from the popular versions. I don't have his recording, so I can't tell if the popular versions are based on that (which differs from text) or if they derive from someone's reworking of it. Second, see TomB's points, above, that John Short's rendition had some significant differences. So there is a case for saying that the oral tradition of this chantey has been broken, or at least that the way most people know it now is "off." Who popularized the current version going around (was it Starboard List, as Lighter mentions)?

 

Regardless, it is similar to a lot of these other chanteys.

 

*****

"Lowlands Low"

 

Print: Hugill

Performers: Ian Cambell; Mystic Seaport Chanteymen; Roll & Go

 

Revived in the 60s by Ian Campbell and Co.? This is post-SEVEN SEAS, but I don't know if he learned it from print or oral.

Incidentally, there are a number of recordings, by revival singers in the 60s-70s, that are recreated from text. Often they have "mistakes" in them, imperfect readings of the texts, and through their spread on record they've spread these off versions. An example might be Louis Killen's version of "Hilo Johnny Brown" which seems it must derive from Hugill but has too many inaccuracies. It may well be that he learned it from Hugill directly, in which case – sadly all too often the case—it's Hugill's notation that is way off."

**
12.
Subject: RE: 'Rare' Caribbean shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 11:26 PM

...."This time regarding Hugill's Caribbean sources. Note: these do not correspond to all of his shanties that he believed were of Caribbean origin. Rather, they're those that he learned from men in or of the Caribbean.

There are 55 in total, at my count -- I may have missed some. So, a good third of the shanties in Hugill's text came from theses guys

From HARDING 'THE BARBARIAN' OF BARBADOS - 36 shanties:

Stormalong, John

'Way Stormalong John

Stormalong, Lads, Stormy

Sally Brown

Randy Dandy O!

High O, Come Roll Me Over

Where Am I to Go, M'Johnnies

Roll, Boys, Roll

The Codfish Shanty

Ranzo Ray (C)

Hilo, Come Down Below

Hello Somebody

Shallow Brown (B)

Can't Ye Hilo?

The Gal with the Blue Dress

Johnny Come Down the Backstay

Rise Me Up from Down Below

John Kanaka

Hooker John

Haul 'er Away (A)

Old Moke Pickin' on the Banjo

Gimme De Banjo

Haul Away, Boys, Haul Away

Walkalong, My Rosie

Coal Black Rose

Bunch o' Roses

'Way Me Susiana

Do Let Me Lone, Susan

Doodle Let Me Go

Sing Sally O (Mudder Dinah) (A)

Sing Sally O (B)

Round the Corner, Sally

Essequibo River

Alabama (John Cherokee)

Dan Dan

Hilonday

 

From "OLD SMITH" OF TOBAGO:

Lowlands Low

Walkalong You Sally Brown

Hilo Boys Hilo

Good Morning Ladies All (A)

Sing a Song, Blow Along (Dixie Land)

Tiddy High O

 

From HARRY LAUDER of ST. LUCIA:

Heave Away Boys, Heave Away (B)

Sister Susan (Shinbone Al)

Eki Dumah

Bulley In the Alley

 

From TRINIDAD, anonymous:

Roller Bowler

Miss Lucy Long

Miss Lucy Loo

 

From ST. LUCIA, anonymous:

Heave Away Boys, Heave Away (A)

 

WEST INDIES in general, anonymous:

Roll the Woodpile Down

Tommy's on the Tops'l yard

Haul 'er Away (B)

Good Morning Ladies All (B)

Won't Ye Go My Way?

If Hugill was writing his book in today's era of scholarship, Harding might be listed as a co-author!"

****
13.
Subject: RE: 'Rare' Caribbean shanties of Hugill, etc
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Nov 23 - 07:40 PM

"Here's "Yella Gal" (Hugill/Harding's "Do Let Me Lone") from

Brathwaite, Percy A. and Serena Brathwaite. _Folk Songs of Guyana: Queh-Queh, Chanties and Plantation Themes._ [self-published: Georgetown?], 1967.

 

“Queh-Queh also sung as Chanty”

YELLA GAL

 

Refrain:

Do leh me lone, Lulu, do leh me lone,

        Hurray, me yella gal, do leh me lone

Do leh me lone, Lulu, do leh me lone,

        Hurray, me yella gal, do leh me lone

 

Solo: Put me face pon Lulu face, Lulu faint away, oh

Chorus: Hurray, me yella gal, Lulu faint away

 

Solo: Ah put me han’ pon Lulu head, Lulu faint away, oh.

Chorus: Hurray me yella gal, Lulu faint away.

 

Solo: Ah put me han’ roun’ Lulu neck / An’ she faint away, oh

Chorus: “then Refrain, etc.”

 

Solo: Ah put me han’ roun’ Lulu waist, “etc.”

Chorus: “then Refrain, etc.”

 

Includes notation, including a harmonized (4-part) refrain. However, there appear to be numerous errors in the transcription where the rhythm doesn't make sense."
-snip-
A "yella gal" ("yellow girl") is a light skinned Black female.

Note the comment that is given in #9 of this compilation that the Caribbean term "cholo" means "a person who is mixed" (of some Black/non-Black ancestry). Many- but not all-people who are "mixed" (contemporary term "biracial") identify as Black. Some of these people are light skinned and some aren't.  Also, some Black people appear to be first generation mixed, but aren't. 

**

This November 2023rd comment is the latest comment that is posted to that Mudcat discussion thread as of September 5, 2026 at 1:05 PM. That thread is still open for comments. 

****
This concludes Part II of this pancocojams series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome. 

Examples Of Shanties That Were First Shared By Black Shantymen: Stormalong (video, information, & some lyric examples)

Seán Dagher, Dec 1, 2020

Alfred Bulltop Stormalong* is a legendary sailor. There are many stories about him (all true) and many songs about him. This version features some of the verses with the best news for sailors (a pay raise, good food, lots of rum, good weather) to raise everyone's spirits. Stormalong – Lyrics 1. Stormalong and around we'll go. Storm, Stormalong! Oh Stormalong and around we'll go. Stormalong, me Johnny! 2. Old Stormy was a captain bold. A grand old man of the days of old. 3. Old Stormy loved a sailor's song. His voice was true and his heart was strong. 4. But now Old Stormy's dead and done. We marked the place where he was gone. 5. I wish I was Old Stormy's son. I'd build a ship of a thousand ton. 6. I'd sail this wide world round and round With gold and silver I'd be found. 7. I'd fill her up with Jamaican rum. I'd give out drinks to everyone. 8. We'd all drink as much as a sailor can. And bloody great bottle for the shantyman. 9. I'd feed you well and I'd raise your pay. I'd fill your cups three times a day. 10. For fifty years we'd sail the seas. We'd have no gales, but a good stiff breeze. -snip- "Alfred Bulltop Stormalong" isn't necessarily the name of the captain in all of the Stormalong shanties.

**** Edited by Azizi Powell This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube video of one version of the shanty "Stormalong". This post also includes some information about the character "Stormalong" and some text (word only) examples of Stormalong shanties. The content of this post is presented for folkloric and entertainment purposes. All copyrights remain with their owners. Thanks to all shantymen and singers of these shanties, Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to Seán Dagher for sharing a version of that shanty on YouTube.  -snip-
This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series on African Americans and West Indians chanties (shanties). 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2022/03/information-about-sea-shanty-collector.html for the pancocojams post entitled "Information About Sea Shanty Collector Stan Hugill And Information About Harding, A West Indian Man Who Was The Source For A Number Of Shanties".

Also, click the tags given below for previous posts and subsequent posts on this subject.

****
INFORMATION ABOUT STORMALONG AND LYRIC VERSIONS OF STORMALONG

These excerpts are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only.

Excerpt #1
http://www.contemplator.com/sea/stormalong.html
Information

This shanty  was originally sung around the pumps and later used as a capstan shanty. According to Hugill there is no doubt it is of African-American* origin. It dates to at least the 1830s and 40s.*

Hugill lists several shanties of the "Stormalong family;" Mister Stormalong, Stormy Along, John, Stormalong, Boys, Stormy, Way Stormalong John, Walk Me Along, Johnny (Storm and Blow) and Yankee John, Stormalong. Most of these were halyard shanties, but Mister Stormalong and Storm Along, John were also sung at the pumps. In most of the Stormalong songs there was a pattern of praising the dead seaman or praising the son of the dead seaman.

Lyrics
Stormie's gone, the good old man,
To my aye storm a-long!
Oh, Stormie's gone, that good old man;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

They dug his grave with a silver spade,
To my aye storm a-long!
The shroud of finest silk was made;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

They lowered him with a golden chain,
To my aye storm a-long!
Their eyes all dim with more than rain;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

He was a sailor bold and true,
To my aye storm a-long!
A good old skipper to his crew;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

Of captain brave, he was the best,
To my aye storm a-long!
But now he's gone and is at rest;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

He lies low in an earthen bed,
To my aye storm a-long!
Our hearts are sore our eyes are red;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

He's moored at least and furled his sail,
To my aye storm a-long!
No danger now from wreck or gale;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long.

Old Storm has heard the angel call,
To my aye storm a-long!
So sing his dirge, now one and all;
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm a-long
-snip-
The referent "African American" here may include Black people living in or from the "West Indies" (the Caribbean). 

****
Excerpt #2
[Pancocojams Editor's Note: This discussion thread started 02 Oct 01 - 01:47 PM with a commenter Guest MudWeasel asking “. Who was this fella? I caught one reference to him as a "semi-lengendary" maritime figure.”]

1. From https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=39676
Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 04:31 PM

Hi MudWeasel.accoring to A.L.Lloyd, Stormalong was "the blusterous old skipper who stands his ground alongside Davy Jones and Mother Carey among the mythological personages of the sea. Some took him to be an embodiment of the wind, others believed he was a natural man..." ( Folk Song In England, 1967 ). All the best, Harry.

**
2. Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 04:49 PM

I've wondered about this, too, MudWeasel. The lyrics in the Digital Tradition are one of several versions found in Stan Hugill's Shanties from the Seven Seas, which has about ten pages on this series of songs. What makes me wonder, is that the Stormalong mentioned in these songs does not seem to be the tall-tale character "Old Stormalong" I've heard about in children's stories. I think the legend may have been corrupted by Walt Disney and his ilk.

I found a story called "Old Stormalong, the Deep-Water Sailorman" in Botkin's Treasury of American Folklore. The story was taken from Here's Audacity! American Legendary Heroes by good old Frank Shay (1930). The story includes lyrics similar to what we have in the Digital Tradition*, so Shay apparently sees a connection. [Shay is best known for his book called My Pious Friends and Drunken Companions.

Here's what Shay says in his American Sea Songs and Chanteys (1948):

OLD STORMALONG is the only heroic character in the folklore of the sea: he was born, like the great clipper ships, in the imaginations of men. There is a legend, told in prose, of the time he was quartermaster of the Courser, the world's largest clipper. Stormy was taking his vessel from the North Sea through the English Channel, which was just six inches narrower than the Courser's beam. He suggested that if the captain sent all hands over to plaster the ship's side with soap he thought he could ease her through. It was a tight passage but the ship made it, the Dover cliffs scraping all the soap off the starboard side. Ever since, the cliffs at that point have been pure white and recent observers say the waves there are still foamy from the Courser's soap.

-Joe Offer-

 * https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5561

STORMALONG

Old Stormy he is dead and gone
To me way you Stormalong!

But now he's dead an' gone to rest,
Ay! Ay! ay! Mister Stormalong!

Of all ol' skippers he was best,
But now he's dead an' gone to rest,

He slipped his cable off Cape Horn,
Close by the place where he was born.

Oh, off Cape Horn where he was born,
Our sails wuz torn an' our mainmast gorn.

We'll dig his grave with a silver spade.
His shroud of finest silk was made.

We lowered him down with a golden chain,
Our eyes all dim with more than rain.

He lies low ln his salt-sea bed,
Our hearts are sore, our eyes wuz red.

An able searnan bold an' true,
A good ol' skipper to his crew.

 He's moored at last an' furled his sail,
No danger now from wreck or gale.

Old Stormy heard the Angel call,
So sing his dirge now one an' all.

Oh, now we'll sing his funeral song,
Oh, roll her over, long an' strong.

Old Stormy loved a sailors' song,
His voice was tough an' rough an' strong.

His heart wuz good an' kind an' soft,
But now he's gone 'way up aloft.

For fifty years he sailed the seas,
In winter gale and summer breeze.

But now Ol' Stormy's day is done;
We marked the spot where he is gone.

So we sunk him under with a long, long roll,
Where the sharks'll have his body, an' the divil have his soul.

An' so Ol' Stormy's day wuz done,
South fifty six, west fifty one.

Ol' Stormy wuz a seaman bold,
A Grand Ol' Man o' the days of old.

From Shanties of the Seven Seas, Hugill

**
3. Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 05:09 PM

In "The Shanty Book" Richard R. Terry writes:

Who Stormy was is undiscoverable, but more than a dozen shanties mourn him.

Joanna Colcord, in "Songs of American Sailormen" notes:

Bullen says of the next shanty, "it embodies all of the adoration that a sailor used to feel for a great seaman, gives it expression, as it were, though i have never been able to learn who the antitype of Stormalong could have been. I suspect that he was just the embodiment of all the prime seamen the sailor had ever known, and in this song he voiced his heart's admiration."

Keep those silver spades polished -- Tom
-snip-
Here's some information about Bullen:
From https://www.qaronline.org/blog/2021/08/20/did-you-know-sea-shanties-were-important-part-sailing
"Frank Bullen (1857-1915), a shantyman and author, compiled a book of shanties titled “Songs of Sea Labor.” According to Bullen, lyrics changed quite readily and were often left up to the imagination of the caller. There would be a starting verse or two and fixed phrases for the chorus. “Many a Shantyman was prized in spite of his poor voice because of his improvisations. Poor doggerel they were mostly and often very lewd and filthy…much opportunity for laughter.”  Many of Frank Bullen’s travels took him to the West Indies and the southern United States where he credits finding new shanties in the harbors."
-snip-
"Tom" is this commenter's first name.

**
4. Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: Madam Gashee
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 05:48 PM

According to Stan Hugill "Perry calls him 'Old Storm an' Blow', a name found more usually in Negro versions"
-snip-
Since the mid 1960s the word "Negro" is no longer used referent for Black people in the United States. 

**
5. Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 07:36 PM

A bit more on Old Stormalong and his exploits:

According to "A Treasury of American Folklore" (B.A. Botkin, Ed., Crown Publishers, NY, NY, 1944) Old Stormalong was the greatest, boldest and strongest of the deep-water sailors in the age of mast and canvas. He first arrived on ship with his trunk bearing the initials A.B.S. He claimed they stood for Alfred Bulltop Stormalong, but the captain took one look and declared: "A.B.S. Able-Bodied Sailor. By your size and strength they should measure the talents of all other seamen." And so it's been ever since.

A man of prodigious size and strength, he was every inch a legend among his fellow salts. Said one: "He took his whale soup in a Cape Cod dory...his fav'rite meat was shark. He like ostrich eggs for breakfast and then he would lie back on the deck and pick his teeth with an eighteen foot oar."

Stormalong was a big man and he liked to serve on a ship to match. By all accounts, he was the most loyal of sailors...until a bigger ship passed his way. In a trice, he was over the side with his trunk and making steadily for his new berth aboard a better ship.

The last ship her served aboard was the Courser, "her rigging so immense that no living man could taker her in at a single glance. Her masts penetrated the clouds and the top sections were on hinges so they could be bent over to let the sun and moon pass."

Among other exploits, he was credited with making the Cliffs of Dover white, the result of soaping the sides of his ship so that it could just squeak through the English Channel. He also dug the Panama Canal by virtue of piloting his mighty ship across the Isthmus during a mighty hurricane.

Not coincidentally, Old Stormalong met his end as the Age of Sail was slipping beneath the waves, overtaken by the coming of the steamships, a mode of travel he could neither respect nor abide.

(and with that, I'll be a-weigh, hey!)

**
6. Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 07:46 PM

Nice summary, Mountain Dog. I was going to do that, but didn't get around to it. Still, I don't see the connection between the Stormalong of the stories, and the Stormalong of the chanteys.

**
7.  Subject: Lyr Add: OLD STORMY
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:14 PM

Charles Nordhoff, in "Seeing the World," (issued under other titles at various times in the 19th c.) tells of the "mythical personage 'Old Stormy,'"

The foreman of the gang of English and Irish sailors who worked at screwing cotton in Mobile Bay, the "chanting-man" (later referred to as the chantey man with reference to another chantey) leads, and the work gang provided the chorus:

Lyr. Add: OLD STORMY

Old Stormy, he is dead and gone,
Chorus- Carry him along, boys, carry him along,

Oh! carry him to his long home,
Chorus- Carry him to the burying-ground.

Oh! ye who dig Old Stormy's grave,
Chorus- Carry him along, boys, carry him along,

Dig it deep and bury him safe,
Chorus- Carry him to the burying-ground.

Lower him down with a golden chain,
Chorus- carry him along, boys, carry him along,

Then he'll never rise again,
Chorus- Carry him to the burying-ground.

Grand chorus- Way-oh-way-oh-way- storm along,
Way- you rolling crew, storm along stormy.

Nordhoff says, "The English and Irish sailors, who, leaving their vessels here, remain until they have saved twenty or thirty pounds, then ship for Liverpool, London, or whatever port may be their favorite, there to spend it all away, and return to work out another supply. Screwing cotton is, I think, fairly entitled to be called the most exhausting labour that is done on shipboard."

The copy of the book that I have (given to a boy) bears an inscription by a ship's captain, Capt. McNeil Bryd- "The romance of the sea is buried in the coal-bunkers." Dec. 18, 1868.

The line, 'Lower him down with a golden chain,' is present in a number of burying songs of both blacks and Appalachian and Ozark whites; where it originated (along with bury him with a silver spade) is unknown although it is often attributed to black slaves or to the West Indies.

Hugill remarks on its presence in blackface minstrel songs. My guess is that it is from one of the Old Order white denominations.

**
8.  Subject: RE: Hist. Origins: Stormalong?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 May 11 - 08:34 AM

Then there's this old minstrel song which may be derived from a stevedore worksong or not:

As sung by J. Smith of White's Serenaders at the Melodeon, New York City, from White's New Ethiopian Song Book, published by T.B. Peterson & Bros., Philadelphia, US, © 1854, p. 71,

Storm Along Stormy

O I wish I was in Mobile bay,
Storm along, Stormy.

Screwing cotton all de day,
Storm along, Stormy.

O you rollers storm along,
Storm along, Stormy.

Hoist away an' sing dis song,
Storm along, Stormy.

I wish I was in New Orleans,
Storm along, Stormy.

Eating up dem pork an' beans,
Storm along, Stormy.

Roll away in spite ob wedder,
Storm along, Stormy.

Come, lads, push all togedder,
Storm along, Stormy.

I wish I was in Baltimore,
Storm along, Stormy.

Dancing on dat Yankee shore,
Storm along, Stormy.

One bale more, den we'be done,
Storm along, Stormy.

De sun's gwan down, an' we'll go home.
Storm along, Stormy.

****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome. 

 

 

Information About Sea Shanty Collector Stan Hugill And Information About Harding, A West Indian Man Who Was The Source For A Number Of Shanties

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision: March 27, 2022

This pancocojams post presents information about Stan Hugill and Harding, A Black sailor  who shared a number of shanties with him.

One of these quotes includes a list of West Indian songs in Stan Hugill's 1961 book Shanties from the Seven Seas.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, and educational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Hugill and Harding for their folkloric legacies. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
This post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series on African Americans and West Indians chanties (shanties). Click the tags given below for previous posts and subsequent posts on this subject.

****
INFORMATION ABOUT STAN HUGILL AND ABOUT "HARDING THE BARBARIAN"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Hugill
"Stanley James Hugill (/'hju:ɡɪl/) (19 November 1906 – 13 May 1992)[1] was a British folk music performer, artist and sea music historian, known as the "Last Working Shantyman" and described as the "20th century guardian of the tradition".[1]

Biography

He was born in Hoylake, Cheshire, England,[2] to Henry James Hugill and Florence Mary Hugill (née Southwood). His sailing career started in 1922, and he retired to dry land in 1945.[2] He notably served as the shantyman on the Garthpool,[1] the last British commercial sailing ship (a "Limejuice Cape Horner"), on her last voyage which ended when she was wrecked on 11 November 1929 off the Cape Verde Islands.[1]

[…]

In the 1950s he also taught sailing skills (and sang sea shanties) on the sail-training ship Pamir but was not on its ill-fated last voyage.[1]

[…]

When laid up with a broken leg in the 1950s, he began to write down the shanties that he had learned at sea, eventually authoring several books and releasing several LPs of performances later in coordination with a Merseyside folk group called Stormalong John.[1] Although "shanty" is also spelled "chantey", Hugill used the former exclusively in his books.

[…]

Shanties from the Seven Seas (1961; abridged edition 1984)"...
-snip-
This is the earliest publishing date for this book.

****
Excerpt #2

Subject: RE: Where am I to go From Barry Finn Date: 23 Jul 98 - 02:46 PM Enter into the search box, Where Am I To Go Me Johnnies*, & you'll find it there along with midi music. Hugill doesn't say much about this halyard shanty except that he got it from a fellow shantyman, Harding the Barbarian from Barbadoes, a Black sailor who had shipped on Yankee, Brittish, Bluenose & West Indian vessels, a fine shantyman & a 1st rate sailor. He also says he never seen it in print. Barry -snip-

https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7810 

****
Excerpt #3
From http://www.fresnostate.edu/folklore/ballads/Hugi170.html
"Hugill-ShantiesFromTheSevenSeas got this ["Roll Boys Roll” shanty] from his friend "Harding the Barbarian," a black sailor and shantyman from Barbados. Harding said it originated in the West Indies and was popular in ships which carried chequerboard crews. – SL" 
-snip- 
"Chequerboard crews" refers to sailing crews that were composed of Black sailors and White sailors.

****
Excerpt #4
From https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=389056178386468&story_fbid=661317391160344
Szanty Szoguna - Shoguns' Sea Shanties
September 23, 2020
Way Stormalong, John

This shanty same as "Stormalong, Lads, Stormy", came from the same shantyman  "Harding, the Barbadian Barbarian" from Barbados. About Harding, the Stan Hugill calls him master of the 'hitch" - the singing wild yelps at certain points in hauling song. In both foregoing shanties and in the one which follows - which Stan Hugill also obtained from him - he would give vent to many wild 'hitches', absolutely impossible for a white man to copy. It was originally used at the pumps.

"Shanties from the Seven Seas" by Stan Hugill (1st ed: p 77).

Way Stormalong, John

Oh, Stormy's gone that good ol' man,

   - 'Way, Stormalong John!

Oh, Stormy's gone that good ol' man,

   - 'Way-ay, Mister Stormalong John.

               *2*

A good ol' skipper to his crew,

An able seamen bold an' true,

               *3*

We dug his grave with a silver spade,

His shroud o' finest silk wuz made.

               *4*

Old Stormy heard the Angel call,

So sing his dirge now one an' all.

               *5*

He slipped his cable of Cape Horn,

Close by the place where he wuz born.

               *6*

I wisht I wuz Ol Stormy's son,

I'd build a ship o' a thousant ton

               *7*

I'd sail this wide world round an' round,

With plenty o' money I'd be found..

               *8*

We'd sail this ol' world round an' round,

An' get hot rum oh, I'll be bound.

               *9*

I'd load her up with Jamaicy rum,

An' all me shellbacks they'd have some.

               *10*

We'd git our drinks, lads, every man,

With a bleedin' big bottle for the shantyman.

               *11*

I'd load 'er up with grup an' gin,

An' stay in the port that we wuz in.

               *12*

I'd feed ye well, an' raise yer pay,

An' stand ye drinks three times a day.

               *13*

An' whin we git to Liverpool Town,

We'll dance them judies round an' round.

               *14*

Oh, Stormalong an' around we'll go,

Oh, Stormalong through ice an' snow.

               *15*

When Stormy died he made a will,

To give us sailors gin to swill.

https://youtu.be/vPuXyXnDv1E

****
Excerpt #5
From http://www.tynefolk.uk/folk-articles-shanties-black-origins  Sea Chanties...Black Origins 

A look into the origins of these wonderful songs is long overdue.

by Jim Mageean [no publishing date given but copyright 2021]
..."Our greatest shanty collector Stan Hugill ascribed about 120 of the shanties from his 'bible' 'Shanties from the Seven Seas' (1961) to Black American and Caribbean origins. These were mostly collected from his West Indian informants Harding the Barbadian, Tobago Smith and 'Harry Lauder' from the Island of St. Lucia. He even tried to imitate the yelps and 'hitches' these black shantymen put into their singing of the shanties. Many of these had never appeared in a shanty collection before including 'ESSEQUIBO RIVER', ROLL,BOYS.ROLL' and 'WHERE AM I TO GO'. He also collected the great favourite South Sea Island shanty 'JOHN KANAKA' which he claimed was 'one of a body of Poynesian shanties'. Stan also made frequent reference to his experience of 'checkerboard crews' (one watch black and one author Frank Thomas Bullen who along with his friend W.F.Arnold wrote 'Songs of Sea Labour' in 1914watch white) where shanty-swapping must have occurred.

 Many of Stan's shanties had previously been put in print by British collectors without any mention of their negro origin. These include 'BULLY IN THE ALLEY' (Cecil Sharp), 'COME ROLL ME OVER' (John Masefield), 'HILO, BOYS, HILO' (Richard Runciman Terry) and 'PAY ME THE MONEY DOWN' (Laura Alexandrine Smith). Of course, Hugill was a shantyman himself and shipped as a common sailor in the fo'c'sle. Most of the other collectors did not have this experience.

[...]

Sadly, apart from Hugill and Bullen, no other major British collector seems to acknowledge the black origins of some of the shanties they collected. Most seemed keen to promote them as part of an English folklore heritage. Consequently the revivals in shanty singing and folk singing that occurred in the 1920's and 1960's assumed this to be the case. With the new worldwide revival in interest in shanties that has begun it is important that we portray them as 'world music' with a multi-ethnic background with particular emphasis on the black origins of many of them."
-snip-
 "Negro" spelled with a lower case "n" was the norm in the 19th century and early 20th century, but even then some people, especially Black people, considered the lack of a capitol letter for "Negro" to be offensive. 
-snip-
"Bullen" is "Frank Thomas Bullen who along with his friend W.F.Arnold wrote 'Songs of Sea Labour' in 1914"...

****
Excerpt #6
From https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=46147

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Huckleberry Hunting (Pumping Chantey)

Subject: RE: Rare' Carib. shanties of Hugill, etc

From: Gibb Sahib

Date: 31 Mar 09 - 02:01 PM
… "I did once read through Hugill with an eye to which shanties were from Harding, but I didn't keep a strict list. My goal at the time was to sketch a rough picture of the percentages of what chanteys came from where. Needless to say, that is impossible to say with any accuracy since as many people would disagree on the origins (or dismiss the effort as rather pointless). The number of course will also vary widely depending on what you count variations. For whatever it's worth though, here are some of my stats:

Total number of shanties, not including textual variants or little "sing outs," is about 181. Usually I counted each different tune as a different chantey. "Blow the Man Down" was counted as a single chantey, despite there being "Flying Fish" version, "Blackballer" version, etc.

Of these, 78 were of "Black" origin. Out of those 78, I filed 47 as Black American and 31 as Caribbean. Keep in mind that this also includes minstrel song types, which are difficult to distinguish from authentic African-American songs of the period. Also, the Caribbean number may seem low because many of the chantey, even if learned from Harding, seemed to originate in the Southern U.S., as minstrel songs, etc.

 14 were "Irish" or Irish-American. This does not include the minstrel songs, which are often a sort of Black-Irish combo. As already noted, I included those under "Black"--a bias in my count, I guess.

8 were "American," exclusive of "Black" or "Irish."

"All Others," an undifferentiated category, numbered 80.

I did not note which were "English" specifically, though that number was comparatively few. Moreover, many of these are forebitters that Hugill admitted into the collection on the criterium that he'd hear one person say they had been used as a capstan song. A contrary statement one could make is that they are all really "English," since it was Stan, an Englishman, who sang them!

Take those numbers with several teaspoons of salt.

Gibb"

****

Subject: RE: 'Rare' Caribbean shanties of Hugill, etc

From: Gibb Sahib

Date: 01 Apr 09 - 11:26 PM

....This time regarding Hugill's Caribbean sources. Note: these do not correspond to all of his shanties that he believed were of Caribbean origin. Rather, they're those that he learned from men in or of the Caribbean.

There are 55 in total, at my count -- I may have missed some. So, a good third of the shanties in Hugill's text came from theses guys

From HARDING 'THE BARBARIAN' OF BARBADOS - 36 shanties:

Stormalong, John

'Way Stormalong John

Stormalong, Lads, Stormy

Sally Brown

Randy Dandy O!

High O, Come Roll Me Over

Where Am I to Go, M'Johnnies

Roll, Boys, Roll

The Codfish Shanty

Ranzo Ray (C)

Hilo, Come Down Below

Hello Somebody

Shallow Brown (B)

Can't Ye Hilo?

The Gal with the Blue Dress

Johnny Come Down the Backstay

Rise Me Up from Down Below

John Kanaka

Hooker John

Haul 'er Away (A)

Old Moke Pickin' on the Banjo

Gimme De Banjo

Haul Away, Boys, Haul Away

Walkalong, My Rosie

Coal Black Rose

Bunch o' Roses

'Way Me Susiana

Do Let Me Lone, Susan

Doodle Let Me Go

Sing Sally O (Mudder Dinah) (A)

Sing Sally O (B)

Round the Corner, Sally

Essequibo River

Alabama (John Cherokee)

Dan Dan

Hilonday

 

From "OLD SMITH" OF TOBAGO:

Lowlands Low

Walkalong You Sally Brown

Hilo Boys Hilo

Good Morning Ladies All (A)

Sing a Song, Blow Along (Dixie Land)

Tiddy High O

 

From HARRY LAUDER of ST. LUCIA:

Heave Away Boys, Heave Away (B)

Sister Susan (Shinbone Al)

Eki Dumah

Bulley In the Alley

 

From TRINIDAD, anonymous:

Roller Bowler

Miss Lucy Long

Miss Lucy Loo

 

From ST. LUCIA, anonymous:

Heave Away Boys, Heave Away (A)

 

WEST INDIES in general, anonymous:

Roll the Woodpile Down

Tommy's on the Tops'l yard

Haul 'er Away (B)

Good Morning Ladies All (B)

Won't Ye Go My Way?

If Hugill was writing his book in today's era of scholarship, Harding might be listed as a co-author!"

****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.