Edited by Azizi Powell
Pancocojams Editor's Note:
Most of the content of this post was published in July 2013 http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/what-afro-european-afropean-mean.html
That 2013 post has nine comments which might be of interest to readers of this post. One of those comments which I wrote is given as an Addendum to this post. This post also includes an excerpt about the 7th Biennial Afroeuropean Network Conference in Lisbon, Portugal on July 4-9, 2019.
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This pancocojams post provides information & commentary about the group referents "Afro-European" and "Afropean". Links to additional posts about this population & two videos that feature persons from this population are also included in this post.
The content of this post is presented for cultural, sociological, educational, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
Disclaimer: As I am an African American living in the United States, I wouldn't dream of speaking for Afro-Europeans/Afropeans, although, according to my understanding of the definitions of "Afro-European" and "Afropean", if I were to move to Europe, I would be considered a member of that population.
Additions & corrections to the information & commentary in this post are very welcome.
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DEFINITIONS OF "AFRO-EUROPEAN" & "AFROPEAN"
"Afro-European" is a referent for persons of Black African descent who were born in or who live in European nations. A second definition of "Afro-European" is that it refers to mixed racial persons of Black African & White European ancestry.*
"Afropean" is a shortened form of that same referent.
The term "Afro-European" follows the same structure of such population referents as "Afro-American", "Afro-Cuban", and "Afro-Caribbean". Each of these terms are formed by combining the prefix "Afro" (meaning "African") with the word "European".
*I wrote "White European" because I think that the world is moving away from a time when the term "European" is a synonym for "White".
Some could maintain that "African American" could be a referent for a person of any race from Africa who now lives in the United States of America [notwithstanding the fact that "America" actually refers to much more than the USA]. Therefore, I suppose "Afro-European" could also refer to White people from Africa who now live in Europe. (Or maybe the referent for White Africans would be "Euro-Africans". However, I've never seen "Euro-African" used & I'm not promoting its use.)
But defining "Afro-European" as a person of any race from Africa now living in Europe" doesn't appear to be the usual meaning of the term "Afro-European". However, it's the reason why in the definition above I added the word "Black" before the phrase "African descent".
And would "Asian Africans" be a generalized referent for Asians living in Africa or who were born in Africa? There are, after all, White people and other People of Color besides Black people living in or who were born in most African nations. I wonder if there are any generalized, pan-African referents for that population which includes those who are racially mixed and/or who aren't racially mixed. Given the rising number of Chinese in Africa, it seems to me that such a racial referent may be needed now or in the immediate future.
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Here are two definitions of "Afropean" from urbandictionary.com :
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afropean (Note: These examples are presented in chronological order with the oldest date first.)
1. Afropean
Person who relates both to Africa and Europe. Usually a person of African descent who lives in Europe and has European tastes and tendencies. Also children of both African and European parentage.
"English is your first language and you don't speak an African language, not even your mother tongue? You're so Afropean!"
"Khaki pants? This is a city not the bush - you're not African anymore. You're Afropean."
"His father's Dutch and his mother's Namibian, the boy's Afropean."
by Mutaleni Nadimi Aug 9, 2006
2. Afropean:
Term to describe the trans-cultural influences of (..usually...) mixed race individuals, or members of the black diaspora living in Europe. First coined by Talking Heads singer David Byrne, to describe the music of Belgo-Congolese group 'Zap Mama'.* Later popularized by Afro-French sister duo Les Nubians.
"They burst onto the international music scene more than a decade ago, with a blend of European and African styles they call "Afropean."**
-An Afropean, Feb 25, 2012
*Read more about Zap Mama & David Byrne in the online examples section below. I'm not certain whether Zap Mama or David Byrne coined the album title "Afropea" or if that form of the referent "Afropean" was used prior to the involvement of Zap Mama with David Byrne's record company. Also, click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/zap-mama-erykah-badu-bandy-bandy.html to find an example of a later Zap Mama song entitled "Bandy Bandy".
**This is a quote from a 2011 NPR program about the duo
“Les Nubians”. http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/134822770/Afropean-Soul-Sisters-Bring-A-Nu-Revolution
A video of "Les Nubians" is found below.
Additional definitions of "Afro-European:/"Afropean" are found throughout this post.
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A FEW ONLINE EXAMPLES OF THESE REFERENTS
Note: My sincere thanks to the editors & authors of these blogs, websites, facebook page, and other online examples.
The first use of a form of the referent “Afropean” that I found was from 3/1991 (the title of a Zap Mama album). "Zap Mama" is a Belgium neo-soul singing group & also the stage name of its lead singer Marie Daulne who is of Belgium/Congolese ancestry:
EXCERPT #1
"....In 1989, she [Marie Dauline] founded the group Zap Mama to merge the African and European aspects of her identity.[15] Daulne auditioned scores of female singers looking for the right combination of voices for an a cappella ensemble.[16] "When I did my first album, I was looking for girls that were the same mix as me--African and European," she says.[10] "I wanted to put these two sounds together to prove that to have blood from white and black was perfect harmony on the inside."
In 1992, Zap Mama came to the United States for the first time to perform at New Music Seminar in New York. There, they met David Byrne and agreed to let him reissue Zap Mama's first recordings as Adventures in Afropea 1[9] on Luaka Bop Records.[17] By the end of the year, Billboard announced it was the top seller for "world music."-From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zap_Mama
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EXCERPT #2:
http://www.caar-web.org/fileadmin/user_upload/files/call_for_contributions_encyclodedia_of_afro-european_studies.pdf
“The project Afroeurope@ans: Black cultures and identities in Europe funded by the Spanish Ministry of Science & Technology, is pleased to circulate this call for contributions to its exciting new project – the creation of the first online multilingual Encyclopedia of Afro-European Studies. The Encyclopedia constitutes a seminal step in a series of activities undertaken by the Afroeurope@ans Project since 2004, including the organization of biannual conferences, the publication of the e-journal AFROEUROPA: Journal of Afroeuropean Studies and a collection of essays Afroeurope@ans: Culture and Identities (Cambridge Scholars, 2009) and expanding the network of scholars, artists, and activists through academic exchange and cultural events.
The Encyclopedia will cover a range of topics related to the presence of Africans or people of African descent throughout Europe from the shores of the Atlantic to the Ural mountains including Spain, France, Italy, Portugal, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, the Nordic countries, etc".
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EXCERPT #3
http://afroeuropeansistersnetwork.blogspot.com/2009/10/2010-conference-about-women-and-control.html
“Welcome to the Afro European Sisters Network (AESN). A site that focuses on networking black women in and outside of Europe. As women tell their stories it allows others to learn lessons from their lives. Sharing this knowledge will also empower women with the ability to become one.”
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EXCERPT #4
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-is-afroeurope-who-are.html "What is Afro-Europe? Who are the Afro-Europeans or black Europeans?"
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 by Sibo Kano*
*Pancocojams Editor's Note: Sibo Kano is Afro-Flemish [from Belgium]
"...The central question is what a Nigerian in Italy, an Angolan in Sweden, a Jamaican in the UK and a mixed race Congolese in France or Germany have in common. Europe is not even united so how would black people coming from different nations feel united within Europe? We don’t even have a common language. Below I will give my opinion on this issue.
...What we have in common is the western and European experience, and the way we are categorized within Europe as a certain kind of people. Whether you are in France, Germany, Italy or any other European country, the majority white people of Europe perceive people of African ancestry in quite the same way. This categorization isn’t entrenched in the laws of European nations, but for centuries in the past it was. It isn’t something we can easily describe nor can we demonstrate it through clear facts and figures. However, through a history of relations between Europe and the darker peoples of the planet, the ‘black man’ has received a certain place. Although racial slavery has been abolished, and racist laws eradicated from law books, the concepts and ideas inherited from more than 5 centuries of African-European relationships are still there. Whatever the colour of our skin, we are part of this history...An anomaly
Black people in Europe, whether with brown or black skin, whether born there or not, whether having a white parent or not, whether adopted or not, whether they speak the national language or not, whether integrated or not, ...are all perceived as a certain kind of foreigners. They are not supposed to be there. But in reality most black people in Europe have built their homes in Europe, have adopted European cultures as their own and are perfectly integrated. If not the first generation, then certainly their children...
This experience; being perceived as foreigners from a common continent (whether being really a foreigner or not), is central in the creation of our identity. Identity is based on the relationship you have with others. I do think that most Europeans of African ancestry, i.e culturally integrated black people, would prefer just to be seen as part of the country where they are living, fully accepted as members of that society. In reality it is not so. Even when they have actually forgotten the cultures and languages of their ancestors and only know the Western world as their world, they will still be seen as an anomaly within the Western world, even after generations...
The presence of black people in Europe is a logic consequence of the African-European history. Europe seems not to accept this logic."...
-snip-
Sibo Kano wrote me in 2013 that he "meant the African Diaspora as a whole".
Unfortunately, the afroeurope.blogspot is no longer active.
I'm glad that I happened upon that afro-europe blog in 2012. My first comment on that blog was in response to a 2009 post by Sibo Kano about being Afro-European. Excerpts of that post are found in this pancocojams post and that comment that I wrote is found in the Addendum to this post.
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EXCERPT #5
http://afroeurope.blogspot.nl/2010/12/break-blogging-black-from-netherlands.html "The break: Blogging Black from the Netherlands and how I became an Afro-European" by Erik K. [lead editor of Afro-Europe International Blog]
"...my Afro-European element what I perhaps share with other Afro-Europeans is that I want to have a piece of the country where I was born and raised in. It’s position I don’t even have to defend. Being black and European means that I also have an Afro-European connection on issues like race, black success and other specific black issues. But there is one issue that I consider very important, I don’t only have connection with Afro-Europe, but also with Africa."
-snip-
Note from Pancocojams editor:
In the one year that I started blogging on afro-europe.com, I've noticed that there have been some other African American commenters on that site, as well as some South American commenters. For that reason, I think that Erik K would probably now amend his comment above to write "I don't only have connections with Afro-Europe, but also with Africa and the rest of the African Diaspora". That's certainly how I feel.
Update: Afroeurope blog editor Erik K. confirmed my guess in a comment that he added to this post on July 4, 2013.
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EXCERPT #6
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2013/07/photo-book-afropean-odyssey-black.html July 1, 2013 Photo book: "An Afropean Odyssey" - A Black European Travel Narrative
This post includes selected photographs and a video of photographs from award winning writer, photographer, and London television host Johny Pitts.
"Video: A photo-montage from my travels around Europe looking at Afropean/ Black European culture with Joy Denalane's 'Vier Frauen' (Sara Tavares, Chiwoniso, Déborah, Joy Denalane) as a the soundtrack.
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EXCERPT #7
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Afro-European-Sisters-Network/112233385459365
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EXCERPT #8
http://blog.blackwomenineurope.com
"English - Blackwomenineurope, Afroeuropeans, Expatriates
A place to celebrate women of the African Diaspora living in Europe."
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FEATURED VIDEOS
Example #1: Faces of Afro-European people
AfroPrideTV, Uploaded on Jan 14, 2012
Here's the words that are found on the screen in the beginning of this video:
“Black people in Europe (Sometimes referred to as Afro-Europeans), although this term is also used to describe people of mixed African and European descent, especially in the former European colonies, are black people who are residents or citizens of European countries. They include immigrants as well as European-born people of Black African descent.
A council of European parliamentary assembly report on immigration from sub-Saharan Africa gives the number of sub-Saharan African migrants to Europe as between 3.5 and 8 million concentrated mainly in Belgium, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom. The report also notes that these figures are likely underestimated because of illegal migration.”
Notes:
This video features photographs of famous movie stars, athletes, singers and other famous Afro-Europeans. Most of the examples are from the United Kingdom. This video also includes people of African descent from Turkey.
As one might expect from a YouTube viewer comment thread of a video of this subject, many of the comments about this video are argumentative & racist. Nevertheless, there are some interesting comments on that comment thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVHHQOikZpY
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Warning for public school use: There's a very brief photograph of topless women in this video. Pancocojams usually doesn't include videos of such scenes.
Example #2: Les Nubians- Sugar Cane (What is Black Beauty?)
Nina513, Uploaded on Aug 8, 2010
A video dedicated to the beauty that is Les Nubians has been LONG overdue on youtube. This video is dedicated two these two sisters and the African ancestors who shine through them. They inspire so many people around the world through their music, style and honesty.
This song is off of their debut album "Princesses Nubiennes" and happens to be one of my favorites from them. Play close attention to the meaning of this song and the pictures included.
God bless!
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EXCERPT FROM THE May 2018 NOTICE: "CALL: “AFROEUROPEANS: BLACK IN/VISIBILITIES CONTESTED”
"7th Biennial Network Conference, Lisbon (4-7 July 2019)
The 7th Biennial Network Conference: “Afroeuropeans: Black In/Visibilities Contested” is an important platform for the production of knowledge in the pertinent field of transdisciplinary research on racism, black cultures and identities in Europe. It also offers the opportunity to strengthen and widen networks between scholars, activists and artists that question structural racism and are critically engaged with the production of postcolonial knowledge on european blackness and the african diaspora. This dialogue and networking is promoted through keynotes and panels, round-tables, individual speakers and artistic and cultural activities.
The title of the conference incorporates the tensions, ambiguities and paradoxes of Blackness in Europe. At the same time as black histories, cultures and social conditions are made invisible in hegemonic accounts on Europe, there is a hypervisibility and presence of black stereotyping in European popular culture. Also, while the concept of race has largely disappeared from political, sociological and administrative discourses (in continental Europe), and while the disengagement with institutional and structural racism has been reframed in new capitalist post racial rhetorics, racial markers still have currency, and black bodies continue to be invoked as either tolerated guests at best, or threatening intruders at worst. The consequence is the practice of “embodying an identity that is declared impossible even though lived by millions”, namely as non-white Europeans, and specifically as Black Europeans. This identity has become even more conditioned by a new mainstreaming of right-wing discourses and the tightening immigrant and refugee policies that affect people of African descent.
The conference addresses not only these relations of domination, and racial modes of exclusion, but engages primarily with the continuous contestations and resistance these in/visibilites have gone by. We turn our gaze to the disregarded histories and cultures, and inquire past, new and continuous forms of Afroeuropean political, social, cultural and artistic interventions and resistance. This implies taking into account the different positionalities within European Blackness, linked for instance to diasporic origins, language, gender, social class, citizenship status, sexuality, dis/abilities, as well as the varying geo-spatial and post-colonial historical formations.
Call for panels
The organizing committee of the 7th Biennial Network Conference seeks panel contributions that speak to one or more of the following agendas:
[...]
> Black Cities: Public Space, Racism, Urban Cultures and Segregation: We invite panel proposals that address black racialization in urban life and the experiences (and insertions) of people of African descent. We are interested in broadening the debate both on the problems that affect black people in the contemporary cities – segregation, racism, subalternity, stigmatization, ghetto –, as well as analyzing the Afroeuropean interventions into the public space: lifestyle, artistic expressions, urban cultures and identities.
[...]
> Theorizing Blackness and Racial Europe: Panels in this thematic area address the theoretical questions that shape the whole of social relations and the social experience of Afroeuropeans, discussing the very definition(s) of Race, Racism, Blackness as well as Whiteness and how this co-produces Europe as a spatial-temporal formation.
Deadline for submission of proposals: 30.09.2018 (extended)
Further information: Afroeuropeans209: https://afroeuropeans2019.wixsite.com/afroeuropeans2019"
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ADDENDUM: Republished comment that I wrote in 2009 and posted to the comment section of the 2012 pancocojams post on this topic (whose link is given)
"Here's a comment that I wrote to http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-is-afroeurope-who-are.html about the "Afro-European" referent:
"Greetings!
I've just read this 2009 post & the comments and want to commend most of those who have written thus far, but particularly you, Sibo Kano. Your January 20, 2010 11:49 AM post was so on point. It should be required reading and processing for all those people trying to understand the transition Europe and other places in the world are going through with regard to race/ethnicity.
I'm African American and grew up in the 1950s when "White" and "European" were considered to be synonymous referents. Even in that decade there were Europeans who were People of Color (mixed White/non-White or otherwise). But now as you wrote, Sibo, as a "logical consequence of Western history" and as a natural result of globilization, there are even more People of Color in Europe, some born there and some immigrated there.
As an outsider looking in, I suppose that those persons who live in Europe (and elsewhere) who are biologically White/non-White could advocate for a change in the definition of who is "White". But even if that was the path that one wanted to take, it seems to me (again as an outsider), that given the realities of racism in the world, it would be pyschologically healthier and more realistic for those persons in Europe to consider themselves as Black or Brown and as part of the larger referent of "African Europeans" or "Afro-European", with the specific applicable referent such as "Afro-Belgium"; "Afro-Italian", "Afro-British" etc.
In my lifetime we African Americans went through a number of self-referents before "African Americans" became our largely accepted formal group & individual referent (with "Black American" still being used as an informal referent for the same population, and more people of African descent who live in the USA- not to mention more people of African descent who live in the Americas apart from the USA).
In the USA, over time, the hyphens are usually dropped in group names so African-American is almost always written as "African American".
In my lifetime (around the 1970s), the term "Afro-American" was used but was later rejected. I think that was in part because "afro" didn't reference any geographical place like "African" does, and in part because an "afro" was a hair style. That said, if "Afro-European" is the accepted general term for people of African descent in Europe - which it appears to have become - then that referent is the one I will use.
As was and is the case in the USA, people have "the right and the responsibility to name themselves and speak for themselves rather than to be named and spoken for by others". [That quote is from the "Kawaida" philosophy of Maulana Karenga, the founder of the Black holiday, Kwanzaa.]
Thanks for what you are doing to make the world a better place for Black people, for Brown people, and for all people."
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Showing posts with label Group referents. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Group referents. Show all posts
Tuesday, September 18, 2018
Friday, January 22, 2016
Why Referents Like "The Blacks", "The Jews", "The Whites" Are Considered Racist
Edited by Azizi Powell
In two days I've come across two online examples of group referents preceded by "the" such as "The Blacks" and "The Whites".
The first example that I read was businessman and Republican Presidential nominee Donald Trump's comment that "The Whites Don't Get BET Nominations". This was in response to some celebrities' announced boycott of the 2016 Academy Awards event because there were no Black nominees. http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/donald-trump-weighs-in-on-oscars-boycott-whites-dont-get-bets-w162113 is one article which led with that comment.
I read several articles about Donald Trump's comment. While some articles that reported this indicated that Donald Trump's comment was racist, none of them indicated why they reached that conclusion, and no bloggers who posted to those articles' discussion threads [at the time that I'm writing this post] commented about Trump's use of the term "the Whites".
Donald Trump has also used the term "the blacks" as noted in http://gawker.com/the-collected-quotes-of-donald-trump-on-the-blacks-1719961925 Jason Parham, 7/24/15
(2008) “I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.”
-snip-
The second use of such referents that I came across within the last two days was in an article about Jep Robertson and his wife adopting a Black boy. The Robertsons are part of the family featured in the "Duck Dynasty" television series.
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3410879/Duck-Dynasty-star-Jep-wife-adopt-black-baby-boy-say-family-patriarch-accused-racism-loves-new-grandson.html
"The adoption of Jules comes two years after family patriarch Phil made racist comments in an interview with GQ.
'I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once"...
'The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field …They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’ — not a word!'
They were godly; they were happy. No one was singing the blues.'"
-snip-
I added italics to highlight that phrase.
The ellipses in this quote were found in the article.
-snip-
This post puts aside discussions about the boycott of the 2016 Academy Awards event, and also puts aside discussions about what Phil Robinson said or whether Jep Robertson and his wife should or should not have adopted a Black child, given the racial views of Jep's father and possibly Jep himself. Instead, I'm focusing on the use of the terms "The Blacks" and similar terms.
This post presents selected online comments about those referents that I've found from three blog posts that I've found on this subject. Most of these quotes were selected because I believe they better explain why I-and a number of other people-have problems with these types of referents.
I consider those group referents cringe worthy, problematic, if not racist because they consider everyone who is part of a large, heterogeneous population as one lumped together group for whom some generality is being made or being implied. That generality often is stereotypical, but need not be stereotypical for that referent to be off-putting.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
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SELECTED QUOTES ABOUT THE USE OF TERMS SUCH AS "THE BLACKS", "THE JEWS", AND "THE WHITES"
These quotes are presented in chronological order based on their posting dates within these specific articles or blog posts. I've assigned numbers for referencing purposes only.
From http://ask.metafilter.com/10648/What-was-so-offensive-about-the-blacks What was so offensive about "the blacks"? [47 responses total]
question posted by yalestar, October 3, 2004 11:07
1. "Oddball semantics question: Yesterday my wife and her mother were talking about chutney for some reason. Her mother remarked that she always thought that chutney was something that "the blacks" ate. Setting aside the fact that chutney is an Indian thing, what is so distasteful about mom-in-law's choice of words? [MI]
Now I've never known mom-in-law to espouse any particularly racist points of view before, and I don't think any were intended here. But the wife and I were both caught off guard by it, and are also finding ourselves pretty fascinated at the semantics at play here. For example, I don't think I would have given it a second thought if mom-in-law had said "the Greeks" or "the Swedes." But for some reason, hearing her say "the blacks" was very cringe-inducing.
So, what's the deal here? Why does saying "the blacks" sound so blunt and wrong? Or are we just reading too much into some colloquialism from yesteryear (mom-in-law grew up in rural Nebraska)?
-snip-
Responses
2. posted by vacapinta at 11:20 AM on October 3, 2004
"Your mom-in-law was using a broad categorical to talk distantly about a group of people for which there exists some history of racial tension. In this case, she is using that same racial classification to make the reference.
Your mom-in-law may have been making an innocent statement but the phrase "The blacks..." has a bad history behind it and anyone not aware of this is either living in a cultural cave or simply insensitive.
Using "The Greeks.." I'd argue can sound bad too if used in an area where some tension exists. If I say "The Turks..." here in California nobody may think twice. But the same phrase used in European cities currently full of class-conflict and mild xenophobia, well, it may not be interpreted so well."
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3. posted by dame at 11:34 AM on October 3, 2004
"To me it has something to do with the "the"—it seems to block off very squarely a group of others as Other. It has an air of "those people" to it; it implies a monolithic block of Not Us.
For that reason, I wouldn't say "the Jews" either; I'd say gefilte fish is a Jewish food or Jews eat gefilte fish. Likewise I'd say sushi is eaten by Japanese people.
Does that make sense?"
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4. posted by coelecanth at 11:42 AM on October 3, 2004
"My theory is that it would be arrogant to presume to speak for all Greeks everywhere. When you say "the Greeks" there's some implicit boundary to the generalization: maybe you mean "the Greeks" to be Greek citizens generally. In this case the boundary is people actually living in Greece. Maybe you mean the Greeks who live in the neighborhood up the street. Maybe you mean the ancient Greeks. In all cases there's an implicit limit to your generalization.
When your mother in law says "the blacks" there is no way for you to implicitly limit the generalization. It sounds as if she's speaking about all black people everywhere, or can't be bothered to make any finer distinction. To your ear it sounds as if she's implying that skin color determines taste. If that sounds racist to you, it should. Your mother-in-law may not actually be a racist but she's saying something that sounds that way."
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5. posted by falconred at 12:28 PM on October 3, 2004
"Agreed, the "The" for whatever reason is only used by people who see themselves as different from the group mentioned. The way you hear conservative christians talk about "the gays", etc."
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6. posted by headspace at 12:43 PM on October 3, 2004
"Speaking from the midwest here, I'd find it distateful because in my experience, if the information is racial and irrelevant to the subject, then it's putting up a divider between "us" and "them," indicating that there's some kind of novelty in what "they" do just based on the color of their skin, with the implication that it's not something "we" would do.
My mom is the one who taught me to respect all people, period, but she will occasionally tell a story she read in the newspaper and start with "This black guy..." I needle her because she never says "This white guy from Shipton won the lottery," but she'll always say, "This black guy from Shipton won the lottery." I've harrassed her enough that now she says, "This black guy- and his race has nothing to do with it!- won the lottery," so she at least knows it's a tic, but it's so ingrained into her that she can't get rid of it entirely. I chalk it up to her generation."
-snip-
Bold font was used in this comment.
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7. posted by jessamyn at 12:57 PM on October 3, 2004
"I think it has to do with using one characteristic of a person [in this case race] to sort of stand in for the person or actually all people from the race. The lit. term for this is metonymy, or that's what I think of. So, instead of saying "black people" which is a noun followed preceded by a modifier, you are taking the modifier and using it to stand in for the noun, in a way saying "this noun can be reduced to one adjective". When I was going to college in the PC heydey one of the things that was put forward as a more appropriate way to discuss people from other races/cultures was to make sure that you noted somehow that they are people [general term that we all belong to] first, with the racial or cultural attribute also. So instead of saying "the blacks" you can say "black people" and it makes it a more human, personal and [in my opinion] appropriate way to discuss others, also less likely to be misconstrued. "Turkish people" and "Jewish people" as phrases do not have the barb potential that Turks or Jews do. Whether or not her assertion about chutney was or was not accurate, this is the crux of why it sounds weird to me."
**
8. posted by yalestar at 1:57 PM on October 3, 2004
"God bless AskMetafilter and all who sail with it. It's great to have a bunch of people who can succinctly explain what I often find so elusive.
I agree that it's defintely the "the". I like that thing that jessamyn laid out especially: there's something very subtle yet eminently less blunt about saying "black people" instead of "the blacks." Not that ascribing some trait to all people is ever really a good idea, but from a semantics standpoint, one is definitely better than the other.
It also occurs to me that the phrase "the blacks" kinda smacks of a time when most of the US referred to a whole race of people as if their presence amounted to some sort of national crisis, e.g. "the negro problem." "
**
9. posted by geoff. at 1:48 PM on October 3, 2004
"Okay after about the fifth time, is there a way to use the word black as one would use the word WASP. If a family moved in next to me and wore nothing but khakis, lacoste and drove an Acura --- I'd say "yeah we have a WASPy family next to us". If a family moved in that wore Phat Farm (or whatever it's called) and had all black Cadillacs with spinning rims, I'd say "yeah we got some real black neighbors". Now if a black family moved in that was more culturally "normal" I'd never say "that's a black family". I can't really think of a better way to put this, but is there a way to refer to someone's culture without applying underlying racist undertones? Or is this an impossibility with our current language restrictions? I mean this honestly as I've referred to things as "black" before without being racist but simply to specify a very specific culture. Really, I'd like to know so I don't accidently offend someone."
-snip-
Read #12 for a response to this comment.
**
10. posted by headspace at 2:00 PM on October 3, 2004
"Unfortunately, since you're using both black here as shorthand to say "These folks are living up to the stereotype of X," there's no way you can use it and not sound like a jerk. I think the only time you can use it and not be offensive is if you're using it as a statement of fact, "She's the first black president of Whatever Co.," for example."
**
11. posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:07 PM on October 3, 2004
"if the information is racial and irrelevant to the subject
[quoting another blogger]
That's a very good distinction. Sometimes it has nothing to do with racist overtones, you're just trying to narrow the group so someone understands who you're talking about.
For example, I was helping facilitate a neighborhood meeting a couple weeks ago, and there was a single black couple there (welcome to Nebraska). They had some interesting things to say, and later when I was talking about it with my boss, I said, "the black couple had some good points."
When you're just trying to make a distinction in a large group, I don't think it's poor form to say, "the black guy" or "the black couple" -- in fact, I've seen people try and find semantical ways around saying those very words, when in fact it would be far easier and clearer if they just said "the black guy." Personally, I think it's more racist to try and talk around saying "black" or "jewish" or whatever than to just come out and say it. It shows you're systematically thinking about not trying to draw distinctions.
Occasionally when I say something like "the Hispanic couple" I'll get a wierd look from white people, as if I've crossed some PC-no-fly-zone. Look, it's OK, folks. Really. The more the terminology is used correctly, the faster our civilization can grow past these stupid distinctions.
There's a huge difference between using an all-inclusive group ("those jews all stick together," "those black people talk funny," etc.) and using it to try and be more specific when dealing with particular individuals. Connotation is important. Unless you've got an enormous chip on your shoulder, and there's nothing you can do about those people. :)
-snip-
Italics were found in the quote.
**
12. posted by dame at 2:22 PM on October 3, 2004
"Well, see geoff., there's a number of big problems in that question right there. I assume your question was asked in good faith, so I'll try to answer it that way, but be assured the phrasing there includes a number of offenses. Of course, lots of people might disagree with me, but as you'll see that's rather the point.
1. WASP stands for a specific kind of white person, not all white people. So to say that a family is WASPy is less offensive because you are really pointing to a galaxy of traits in which the skin color is only a single (and not the most salient factor). But a number of people would still be offended to see you reduce you neighbors to a stereotype (see also: white trash).
2. Your assumption that wearing Phat Farm & driving Cadillacs with rims makes people "real blacks" is ignorant and rather insulting. Really, that is just the image *you* have of blacks, mostly through the media I'm guessing. But there is no one type of real black, just as there is no type of real white. Who is more white, someone from rural Minnesota or someone from San Francisco? That's seems like a stupid question, right? They are just different people with different traits based on differing community. Just so, there are poorer urban blacks (who seem to be the basis of your stereotype) and weathier suburban blacks who do things like Jack & Jill and uber-wealthy blacks who have been vacationing in tony enclaves on Martha's Vineyard for generations. Not one group is "really" black, just a different sort.
3. Now for the most ignorant comment: if a black family moved in that was more culturally "normal" I'd never say "that's a black family".
What is "normal" precisely? Like you? In many neighborhoods, you would be abnormal. To assume that someone who comes from a different, less culturally dominant community is abnormal is the height of rudeness and insesitivity and the foundation for a lot of racism. That person may be perfectly "normal" for their context. But here you apply your own context as though it were universal and "correct."
I hope that's an adequate beginning for your question. I'm really not the best person to speak to this but I'm here now.
If you are really interested in not being insulting, I would work on not assuming skin color equals particular traits on its own. I would also try learning something about the history and traditions of one of America's great minorities, or heck, all of them. Then, I might try traveling in order to experience different "normals."
On preview: Headspace says it so much better.
And no, Space Coyote, "restricting language" doesn't make people less racist. Seeing how particular phrases reflect racist assumptions, and then discussing those assumptions might."
-snip-
The blogger who asked whether restricting language makes people less racist used the name "Space Cadet" and not "Space Coyote". That for the actual name "Space Cadet". The blogger posting as "dame" corrected her mistaken use of that screen name.
**
13. posted by shepd at 8:51 PM on October 3, 2004
"I think it's the lack of inclusion and the extreme exclusion of the phrase that's causing the rub.
With the choice of phrase your grandmother used, it suggests that only a black person would eat chutney. Clearly, this would indicate that a white person that ate chutney would be considered a black person in her eyes. History does the rest to make this phrase a poor choice.
Taking out the "The" doesn't help it. "Blacks eat chutney!" is the shortest you can make it, and it still sounds terrible.
An alternate phrase, if you had, in fact, only seen black people eat chutney, would be "Chutney is preferred by black people." This would not mean a white person would be "black" by association should they enjoy chutney, but would mean that you had seen more black people eating chutney than white people.
I think an alternate phrase like that leaves the door open to a more scientific or cultural answer than skin colour determining your food preferences. For example, perhaps black people prefer chutney because, as a culture, they were exposed to it earlier in history than white people.
"The blacks eat chutney" makes it clear that by having black skin one automatically would want to eat chutney, which is clearly silly thinking."
**
14. posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:39 PM on October 3, 2004
"I can see some utility for "black" as a more or less descriptive term for someone of African ancestry, if only because otherwise, there's no convenient shorthand for the commonality between Lenny Henry and Nelson Mandela. (Whether there is a genuine commonality worth identiying is a good question, of course). It can't be an appearance thing, because frankly I'm probably darker than Colin Powell most of the time, and it can't be a cultural thing, for reasons well put above.
Searching for these descriptive terms is potentially offensive in that there are some categories that polite people are blind to. There is no good label for distinctions we're ashamed of making.
(PS: as a New Zealander, I'm aware that I could be deaf to a lot of nuances in this discussion, so bear that in mind)."
**
15. posted by vacapinta at 9:53 AM on October 4, 2004
"nthdegx, I wasn't saying that the word "blacks" is inherently offensive but that the construct "The blacks..[insert generalization]" sits in most American minds (this may be different in the UK or across the world) as the template for an offensive statement.
I'm not arguing its the only force at work here but it does explain why I cringe when someone in California begins a sentence with "The Mexicans..." but dont cringe when I am in France and someone begins a sentence the same way (its usually followed by e.g. some praise for mexican food unlike the former which usually expresses some vague anti-immigrant sentiment)"
****
From Why-is-saying-blacks-racist
Why is saying "blacks" racist? Why is saying "blacks" racist?
[question, no name given, no date]
1. "I sometimes say "blacks" as a short form of black people (e.g. "The blacks live in that neighborhood").
Recently, a coworker pointed out that this is racist. Why is this so? I also say whites."
**
[response]
2. Carter Moore, American, former Congressional aide and Federal employee, Written 1 Feb 2015
[upvoted by Britt Smith, black person.
"Depends on the context.
Whenever I'm quoting statistical data, populations are usually broken out by self-reported race/ethnicity. As such, I end up writing a lot of sentences like, "Compared to Whites, Blacks are [x] more likely..." It sounds weird in casual conversation, sure, but that's how most major studies collect data.
Now, if you're about to make some sort of sweeping generalisation about culture and habits, and the only thing you're citing is your personal Appendix of Selective Stereotypes, I'd be skeptical of your intentions.
**
3. Britt Smith, black person, Written 1 Feb 2015
"I suppose it isn't actively racist but it just sounds weird to me. Like when people say "the Jews". Usually people who say this are about to say something racist in my experience."
****
From https://www.quora.com/Black-People-is-it-less-racist-to-say-the-black-race-black-people-African-Americans-blacks-or-people-of-color
[question]
1. "Black People: is it less racist to say "the black race", "black people", "African-Americans", "blacks", or "people of color"?
I'm white, I don't know anything about racism and I want to know if how I am addressing you as a group is racist and which ways might be less racist and preferred."
**
2. Alvin Grissom II, Ph.D. Student, Computational Linguistics, Computer Science Written Nov 5, 2015
""African-American" is safe, but it sometimes sounds like you're trying too hard. "People of color" usually refers to anyone who isn't considered white (which says something about what people assume is the default human being, but I'll leave that). "Black" sounds fine, as does "black people" Avoid "blacks," and do not under any circumstances say "the blacks" or "the black race." When you place "the" in front of "blacks," it sounds like black people are something Other and bad. When you say "the black race," it assumes that (1) race is something we all agree is real outside of people's minds, and (2) that black people are a single race. Even if (1) were true, which it isn't, (2) most certainly wouldn't be true. In general, such terms as "the black race" and "the white race" are the purview of separatist groups.
More broadly, I think black people are usually pretty accommodating to people who make an effort, as long as it doesn't seem patronizing or otherwise overbearing. If this comes up in a conversation and you don't know what to say, if you humbly explain your lack of experience and ask for clarification, most will be more than happy to explain to you what they prefer, and might even be happy that you care enough to ask. Obviously, your mileage may vary. But you shouldn't have to be walking on eggshells. If you make a faux pas, just apologize."
****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
In two days I've come across two online examples of group referents preceded by "the" such as "The Blacks" and "The Whites".
The first example that I read was businessman and Republican Presidential nominee Donald Trump's comment that "The Whites Don't Get BET Nominations". This was in response to some celebrities' announced boycott of the 2016 Academy Awards event because there were no Black nominees. http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/donald-trump-weighs-in-on-oscars-boycott-whites-dont-get-bets-w162113 is one article which led with that comment.
I read several articles about Donald Trump's comment. While some articles that reported this indicated that Donald Trump's comment was racist, none of them indicated why they reached that conclusion, and no bloggers who posted to those articles' discussion threads [at the time that I'm writing this post] commented about Trump's use of the term "the Whites".
Donald Trump has also used the term "the blacks" as noted in http://gawker.com/the-collected-quotes-of-donald-trump-on-the-blacks-1719961925 Jason Parham, 7/24/15
(2008) “I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.”
-snip-
The second use of such referents that I came across within the last two days was in an article about Jep Robertson and his wife adopting a Black boy. The Robertsons are part of the family featured in the "Duck Dynasty" television series.
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3410879/Duck-Dynasty-star-Jep-wife-adopt-black-baby-boy-say-family-patriarch-accused-racism-loves-new-grandson.html
"The adoption of Jules comes two years after family patriarch Phil made racist comments in an interview with GQ.
'I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once"...
'The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field …They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’ — not a word!'
They were godly; they were happy. No one was singing the blues.'"
-snip-
I added italics to highlight that phrase.
The ellipses in this quote were found in the article.
-snip-
This post puts aside discussions about the boycott of the 2016 Academy Awards event, and also puts aside discussions about what Phil Robinson said or whether Jep Robertson and his wife should or should not have adopted a Black child, given the racial views of Jep's father and possibly Jep himself. Instead, I'm focusing on the use of the terms "The Blacks" and similar terms.
This post presents selected online comments about those referents that I've found from three blog posts that I've found on this subject. Most of these quotes were selected because I believe they better explain why I-and a number of other people-have problems with these types of referents.
I consider those group referents cringe worthy, problematic, if not racist because they consider everyone who is part of a large, heterogeneous population as one lumped together group for whom some generality is being made or being implied. That generality often is stereotypical, but need not be stereotypical for that referent to be off-putting.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
****
SELECTED QUOTES ABOUT THE USE OF TERMS SUCH AS "THE BLACKS", "THE JEWS", AND "THE WHITES"
These quotes are presented in chronological order based on their posting dates within these specific articles or blog posts. I've assigned numbers for referencing purposes only.
From http://ask.metafilter.com/10648/What-was-so-offensive-about-the-blacks What was so offensive about "the blacks"? [47 responses total]
question posted by yalestar, October 3, 2004 11:07
1. "Oddball semantics question: Yesterday my wife and her mother were talking about chutney for some reason. Her mother remarked that she always thought that chutney was something that "the blacks" ate. Setting aside the fact that chutney is an Indian thing, what is so distasteful about mom-in-law's choice of words? [MI]
Now I've never known mom-in-law to espouse any particularly racist points of view before, and I don't think any were intended here. But the wife and I were both caught off guard by it, and are also finding ourselves pretty fascinated at the semantics at play here. For example, I don't think I would have given it a second thought if mom-in-law had said "the Greeks" or "the Swedes." But for some reason, hearing her say "the blacks" was very cringe-inducing.
So, what's the deal here? Why does saying "the blacks" sound so blunt and wrong? Or are we just reading too much into some colloquialism from yesteryear (mom-in-law grew up in rural Nebraska)?
-snip-
Responses
2. posted by vacapinta at 11:20 AM on October 3, 2004
"Your mom-in-law was using a broad categorical to talk distantly about a group of people for which there exists some history of racial tension. In this case, she is using that same racial classification to make the reference.
Your mom-in-law may have been making an innocent statement but the phrase "The blacks..." has a bad history behind it and anyone not aware of this is either living in a cultural cave or simply insensitive.
Using "The Greeks.." I'd argue can sound bad too if used in an area where some tension exists. If I say "The Turks..." here in California nobody may think twice. But the same phrase used in European cities currently full of class-conflict and mild xenophobia, well, it may not be interpreted so well."
**
3. posted by dame at 11:34 AM on October 3, 2004
"To me it has something to do with the "the"—it seems to block off very squarely a group of others as Other. It has an air of "those people" to it; it implies a monolithic block of Not Us.
For that reason, I wouldn't say "the Jews" either; I'd say gefilte fish is a Jewish food or Jews eat gefilte fish. Likewise I'd say sushi is eaten by Japanese people.
Does that make sense?"
**
4. posted by coelecanth at 11:42 AM on October 3, 2004
"My theory is that it would be arrogant to presume to speak for all Greeks everywhere. When you say "the Greeks" there's some implicit boundary to the generalization: maybe you mean "the Greeks" to be Greek citizens generally. In this case the boundary is people actually living in Greece. Maybe you mean the Greeks who live in the neighborhood up the street. Maybe you mean the ancient Greeks. In all cases there's an implicit limit to your generalization.
When your mother in law says "the blacks" there is no way for you to implicitly limit the generalization. It sounds as if she's speaking about all black people everywhere, or can't be bothered to make any finer distinction. To your ear it sounds as if she's implying that skin color determines taste. If that sounds racist to you, it should. Your mother-in-law may not actually be a racist but she's saying something that sounds that way."
**
5. posted by falconred at 12:28 PM on October 3, 2004
"Agreed, the "The" for whatever reason is only used by people who see themselves as different from the group mentioned. The way you hear conservative christians talk about "the gays", etc."
**
6. posted by headspace at 12:43 PM on October 3, 2004
"Speaking from the midwest here, I'd find it distateful because in my experience, if the information is racial and irrelevant to the subject, then it's putting up a divider between "us" and "them," indicating that there's some kind of novelty in what "they" do just based on the color of their skin, with the implication that it's not something "we" would do.
My mom is the one who taught me to respect all people, period, but she will occasionally tell a story she read in the newspaper and start with "This black guy..." I needle her because she never says "This white guy from Shipton won the lottery," but she'll always say, "This black guy from Shipton won the lottery." I've harrassed her enough that now she says, "This black guy- and his race has nothing to do with it!- won the lottery," so she at least knows it's a tic, but it's so ingrained into her that she can't get rid of it entirely. I chalk it up to her generation."
-snip-
Bold font was used in this comment.
**
7. posted by jessamyn at 12:57 PM on October 3, 2004
"I think it has to do with using one characteristic of a person [in this case race] to sort of stand in for the person or actually all people from the race. The lit. term for this is metonymy, or that's what I think of. So, instead of saying "black people" which is a noun followed preceded by a modifier, you are taking the modifier and using it to stand in for the noun, in a way saying "this noun can be reduced to one adjective". When I was going to college in the PC heydey one of the things that was put forward as a more appropriate way to discuss people from other races/cultures was to make sure that you noted somehow that they are people [general term that we all belong to] first, with the racial or cultural attribute also. So instead of saying "the blacks" you can say "black people" and it makes it a more human, personal and [in my opinion] appropriate way to discuss others, also less likely to be misconstrued. "Turkish people" and "Jewish people" as phrases do not have the barb potential that Turks or Jews do. Whether or not her assertion about chutney was or was not accurate, this is the crux of why it sounds weird to me."
**
8. posted by yalestar at 1:57 PM on October 3, 2004
"God bless AskMetafilter and all who sail with it. It's great to have a bunch of people who can succinctly explain what I often find so elusive.
I agree that it's defintely the "the". I like that thing that jessamyn laid out especially: there's something very subtle yet eminently less blunt about saying "black people" instead of "the blacks." Not that ascribing some trait to all people is ever really a good idea, but from a semantics standpoint, one is definitely better than the other.
It also occurs to me that the phrase "the blacks" kinda smacks of a time when most of the US referred to a whole race of people as if their presence amounted to some sort of national crisis, e.g. "the negro problem." "
**
9. posted by geoff. at 1:48 PM on October 3, 2004
"Okay after about the fifth time, is there a way to use the word black as one would use the word WASP. If a family moved in next to me and wore nothing but khakis, lacoste and drove an Acura --- I'd say "yeah we have a WASPy family next to us". If a family moved in that wore Phat Farm (or whatever it's called) and had all black Cadillacs with spinning rims, I'd say "yeah we got some real black neighbors". Now if a black family moved in that was more culturally "normal" I'd never say "that's a black family". I can't really think of a better way to put this, but is there a way to refer to someone's culture without applying underlying racist undertones? Or is this an impossibility with our current language restrictions? I mean this honestly as I've referred to things as "black" before without being racist but simply to specify a very specific culture. Really, I'd like to know so I don't accidently offend someone."
-snip-
Read #12 for a response to this comment.
**
10. posted by headspace at 2:00 PM on October 3, 2004
"Unfortunately, since you're using both black here as shorthand to say "These folks are living up to the stereotype of X," there's no way you can use it and not sound like a jerk. I think the only time you can use it and not be offensive is if you're using it as a statement of fact, "She's the first black president of Whatever Co.," for example."
**
11. posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:07 PM on October 3, 2004
"if the information is racial and irrelevant to the subject
[quoting another blogger]
That's a very good distinction. Sometimes it has nothing to do with racist overtones, you're just trying to narrow the group so someone understands who you're talking about.
For example, I was helping facilitate a neighborhood meeting a couple weeks ago, and there was a single black couple there (welcome to Nebraska). They had some interesting things to say, and later when I was talking about it with my boss, I said, "the black couple had some good points."
When you're just trying to make a distinction in a large group, I don't think it's poor form to say, "the black guy" or "the black couple" -- in fact, I've seen people try and find semantical ways around saying those very words, when in fact it would be far easier and clearer if they just said "the black guy." Personally, I think it's more racist to try and talk around saying "black" or "jewish" or whatever than to just come out and say it. It shows you're systematically thinking about not trying to draw distinctions.
Occasionally when I say something like "the Hispanic couple" I'll get a wierd look from white people, as if I've crossed some PC-no-fly-zone. Look, it's OK, folks. Really. The more the terminology is used correctly, the faster our civilization can grow past these stupid distinctions.
There's a huge difference between using an all-inclusive group ("those jews all stick together," "those black people talk funny," etc.) and using it to try and be more specific when dealing with particular individuals. Connotation is important. Unless you've got an enormous chip on your shoulder, and there's nothing you can do about those people. :)
-snip-
Italics were found in the quote.
**
12. posted by dame at 2:22 PM on October 3, 2004
"Well, see geoff., there's a number of big problems in that question right there. I assume your question was asked in good faith, so I'll try to answer it that way, but be assured the phrasing there includes a number of offenses. Of course, lots of people might disagree with me, but as you'll see that's rather the point.
1. WASP stands for a specific kind of white person, not all white people. So to say that a family is WASPy is less offensive because you are really pointing to a galaxy of traits in which the skin color is only a single (and not the most salient factor). But a number of people would still be offended to see you reduce you neighbors to a stereotype (see also: white trash).
2. Your assumption that wearing Phat Farm & driving Cadillacs with rims makes people "real blacks" is ignorant and rather insulting. Really, that is just the image *you* have of blacks, mostly through the media I'm guessing. But there is no one type of real black, just as there is no type of real white. Who is more white, someone from rural Minnesota or someone from San Francisco? That's seems like a stupid question, right? They are just different people with different traits based on differing community. Just so, there are poorer urban blacks (who seem to be the basis of your stereotype) and weathier suburban blacks who do things like Jack & Jill and uber-wealthy blacks who have been vacationing in tony enclaves on Martha's Vineyard for generations. Not one group is "really" black, just a different sort.
3. Now for the most ignorant comment: if a black family moved in that was more culturally "normal" I'd never say "that's a black family".
What is "normal" precisely? Like you? In many neighborhoods, you would be abnormal. To assume that someone who comes from a different, less culturally dominant community is abnormal is the height of rudeness and insesitivity and the foundation for a lot of racism. That person may be perfectly "normal" for their context. But here you apply your own context as though it were universal and "correct."
I hope that's an adequate beginning for your question. I'm really not the best person to speak to this but I'm here now.
If you are really interested in not being insulting, I would work on not assuming skin color equals particular traits on its own. I would also try learning something about the history and traditions of one of America's great minorities, or heck, all of them. Then, I might try traveling in order to experience different "normals."
On preview: Headspace says it so much better.
And no, Space Coyote, "restricting language" doesn't make people less racist. Seeing how particular phrases reflect racist assumptions, and then discussing those assumptions might."
-snip-
The blogger who asked whether restricting language makes people less racist used the name "Space Cadet" and not "Space Coyote". That for the actual name "Space Cadet". The blogger posting as "dame" corrected her mistaken use of that screen name.
**
13. posted by shepd at 8:51 PM on October 3, 2004
"I think it's the lack of inclusion and the extreme exclusion of the phrase that's causing the rub.
With the choice of phrase your grandmother used, it suggests that only a black person would eat chutney. Clearly, this would indicate that a white person that ate chutney would be considered a black person in her eyes. History does the rest to make this phrase a poor choice.
Taking out the "The" doesn't help it. "Blacks eat chutney!" is the shortest you can make it, and it still sounds terrible.
An alternate phrase, if you had, in fact, only seen black people eat chutney, would be "Chutney is preferred by black people." This would not mean a white person would be "black" by association should they enjoy chutney, but would mean that you had seen more black people eating chutney than white people.
I think an alternate phrase like that leaves the door open to a more scientific or cultural answer than skin colour determining your food preferences. For example, perhaps black people prefer chutney because, as a culture, they were exposed to it earlier in history than white people.
"The blacks eat chutney" makes it clear that by having black skin one automatically would want to eat chutney, which is clearly silly thinking."
**
14. posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:39 PM on October 3, 2004
"I can see some utility for "black" as a more or less descriptive term for someone of African ancestry, if only because otherwise, there's no convenient shorthand for the commonality between Lenny Henry and Nelson Mandela. (Whether there is a genuine commonality worth identiying is a good question, of course). It can't be an appearance thing, because frankly I'm probably darker than Colin Powell most of the time, and it can't be a cultural thing, for reasons well put above.
Searching for these descriptive terms is potentially offensive in that there are some categories that polite people are blind to. There is no good label for distinctions we're ashamed of making.
(PS: as a New Zealander, I'm aware that I could be deaf to a lot of nuances in this discussion, so bear that in mind)."
**
15. posted by vacapinta at 9:53 AM on October 4, 2004
"nthdegx, I wasn't saying that the word "blacks" is inherently offensive but that the construct "The blacks..[insert generalization]" sits in most American minds (this may be different in the UK or across the world) as the template for an offensive statement.
I'm not arguing its the only force at work here but it does explain why I cringe when someone in California begins a sentence with "The Mexicans..." but dont cringe when I am in France and someone begins a sentence the same way (its usually followed by e.g. some praise for mexican food unlike the former which usually expresses some vague anti-immigrant sentiment)"
****
From Why-is-saying-blacks-racist
Why is saying "blacks" racist? Why is saying "blacks" racist?
[question, no name given, no date]
1. "I sometimes say "blacks" as a short form of black people (e.g. "The blacks live in that neighborhood").
Recently, a coworker pointed out that this is racist. Why is this so? I also say whites."
**
[response]
2. Carter Moore, American, former Congressional aide and Federal employee, Written 1 Feb 2015
[upvoted by Britt Smith, black person.
"Depends on the context.
Whenever I'm quoting statistical data, populations are usually broken out by self-reported race/ethnicity. As such, I end up writing a lot of sentences like, "Compared to Whites, Blacks are [x] more likely..." It sounds weird in casual conversation, sure, but that's how most major studies collect data.
Now, if you're about to make some sort of sweeping generalisation about culture and habits, and the only thing you're citing is your personal Appendix of Selective Stereotypes, I'd be skeptical of your intentions.
**
3. Britt Smith, black person, Written 1 Feb 2015
"I suppose it isn't actively racist but it just sounds weird to me. Like when people say "the Jews". Usually people who say this are about to say something racist in my experience."
****
From https://www.quora.com/Black-People-is-it-less-racist-to-say-the-black-race-black-people-African-Americans-blacks-or-people-of-color
[question]
1. "Black People: is it less racist to say "the black race", "black people", "African-Americans", "blacks", or "people of color"?
I'm white, I don't know anything about racism and I want to know if how I am addressing you as a group is racist and which ways might be less racist and preferred."
**
2. Alvin Grissom II, Ph.D. Student, Computational Linguistics, Computer Science Written Nov 5, 2015
""African-American" is safe, but it sometimes sounds like you're trying too hard. "People of color" usually refers to anyone who isn't considered white (which says something about what people assume is the default human being, but I'll leave that). "Black" sounds fine, as does "black people" Avoid "blacks," and do not under any circumstances say "the blacks" or "the black race." When you place "the" in front of "blacks," it sounds like black people are something Other and bad. When you say "the black race," it assumes that (1) race is something we all agree is real outside of people's minds, and (2) that black people are a single race. Even if (1) were true, which it isn't, (2) most certainly wouldn't be true. In general, such terms as "the black race" and "the white race" are the purview of separatist groups.
More broadly, I think black people are usually pretty accommodating to people who make an effort, as long as it doesn't seem patronizing or otherwise overbearing. If this comes up in a conversation and you don't know what to say, if you humbly explain your lack of experience and ask for clarification, most will be more than happy to explain to you what they prefer, and might even be happy that you care enough to ask. Obviously, your mileage may vary. But you shouldn't have to be walking on eggshells. If you make a faux pas, just apologize."
****
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
Wednesday, July 3, 2013
What "Afro-European" & "Afropean" Mean
Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post provides information & commentary about the group referents "Afro-European" and "Afropean". Links to additional posts about this population & two videos that feature persons from this population are also included in this post.
The content of this post is presented for cultural, sociological, educational, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Disclaimer: As I am an African American living in the United States, I wouldn't dream of speaking for Afro-Europeans/Afropeans, although, according to my understanding of the definitions of "Afro-European" and "Afropean", if I were to move to Europe, I would be considered a member of that population.
Additions & corrections to the information & commentary that is presented in this post are very welcome.
****
DEFINITIONS OF "AFRO-EUROPEAN" & "AFROPEAN"
"Afro-European" is a referent for persons of Black African descent who were born in or who live in European nations. A second definition of "Afro-European" is that it refers to mixed racial persons of Black African & White European ancestry.*
"Afropean" is a shortened form of that same referent.
The term "Afro-European" follows the same structure of such population referents as "Afro-American", "Afro-Cuban", and "Afro-Caribbean". Each of these terms are formed by combining the prefix "Afro" (meaning "African") with the word "European".
*I wrote "White European" because I think that the world is moving away from a time when the term "European" is a synonym for "White".
Some could maintain that "African American" could be a referent for a person of any race from Africa who now lives in the United States of America [notwithstanding the fact that "America" actually refers to much more than the USA]. Therefore, I suppose "Afro-European" could also refer to White people from Africa who now live in Europe. (Or maybe the referent for White Africans would be "Euro-Africans". However, I've never seen "Euro-African" used & I'm not promoting its use.)
But defining "Afro-European" as a person of any race from Africa now living in Europe" doesn't appear to be the usual meaning of the term "Afro-European". However, it's the reason why in the definition above I added the word "Black" before the phrase "African descent".
And would "Asian Africans" be a generalized referent for Asians living in Africa or who were born in Africa? There are, after all, White people and other People of Color besides Black people living in or who were born in most African nations. I wonder if there are any generalized, pan-African referents for that population which includes those who are racially mixed and/or who aren't racially mixed. Given the rising number of Chinese in Africa, it seems to me that such a racial referent may be needed now or in the immediate future.
****
Here are two definitions of "Afropean" from urbandictionary.com :
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afropean (Note: These examples are presented in chronological order with the oldest date first.)
1. Afropean
Person who relates both to Africa and Europe. Usually a person of African descent who lives in Europe and has European tastes and tendencies. Also children of both African and European parentage.
"English is your first language and you don't speak an African language, not even your mother tongue? You're so Afropean!"
"Khaki pants? This is a city not the bush - you're not African anymore. You're Afropean."
"His father's Dutch and his mother's Namibian, the boy's Afropean."
by Mutaleni Nadimi Aug 9, 2006
2. Afropean:
Term to describe the trans-cultural influences of (..usually...) mixed race individuals, or members of the black diaspora living in Europe. First coined by Talking Heads singer David Byrne, to describe the music of Belgo-Congolese group 'Zap Mama'.* Later popularized by Afro-French sister duo Les Nubians.
"They burst onto the international music scene more than a decade ago, with a blend of European and African styles they call "Afropean."**
-An Afropean, Feb 25, 2012
*Read more about Zap Mama & David Byrne in the online examples section below. I'm not certain whether Zap Mama or David Byrne coined the album title "Afropea" or if that form of the referent "Afropean" was used prior to the involvement of Zap Mama with David Byrne's record company. Also, click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/zap-mama-erykah-badu-bandy-bandy.html to find an example of a later Zap Mama song entitled "Bandy Bandy".
**This is a quote from a 2011 NPR program about the duo
“Les Nubians”. http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/134822770/Afropean-Soul-Sisters-Bring-A-Nu-Revolution
A video of "Les Nubians" is found below.
Additional definitions of "Afro-European:/"Afropean" are found throughout this post.
****
A FEW ONLINE EXAMPLES OF THESE REFERENTS
Note: My sincere thanks to the editors & authors of these blogs, websites, facebook page, and other online examples.
The first use of a form of the referent “Afropean” that I found was from 3/1991 (the title of a Zap Mama album). "Zap Mama" is a Belgium neo-soul singing group & also the stage name of its lead singer Marie Daulne who is of Belgium/Congolese ancestry:
"....In 1989, she [Marie Dauline] founded the group Zap Mama to merge the African and European aspects of her identity.[15] Daulne auditioned scores of female singers looking for the right combination of voices for an a cappella ensemble.[16] "When I did my first album, I was looking for girls that were the same mix as me--African and European," she says.[10] "I wanted to put these two sounds together to prove that to have blood from white and black was perfect harmony on the inside."
In 1992, Zap Mama came to the United States for the first time to perform at New Music Seminar in New York. There, they met David Byrne and agreed to let him reissue Zap Mama's first recordings as Adventures in Afropea 1[9] on Luaka Bop Records.[17] By the end of the year, Billboard announced it was the top seller for "world music."-From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zap_Mama
****
http://www.caar-web.org/fileadmin/user_upload/files/call_for_contributions_encyclodedia_of_afro-european_studies.pdf
“The project Afroeurope@ans: Black cultures and identities in Europe funded by the Spanish Ministry of Science & Technology, is pleased to circulate this call for contributions to its exciting new project – the creation of the first online multilingual Encyclopedia of Afro-European Studies. The Encyclopedia constitutes a seminal step in a series of activities undertaken by the Afroeurope@ans Project since 2004, including the organization of biannual conferences, the publication of the e-journal AFROEUROPA: Journal of Afroeuropean Studies and a collection of essays Afroeurope@ans: Culture and Identities (Cambridge Scholars, 2009) and expanding the network of scholars, artists, and activists through academic exchange and cultural events.
The Encyclopedia will cover a range of topics related to the presence of Africans or people of African descent throughout Europe from the shores of the Atlantic to the Ural mountains including Spain, France, Italy, Portugal, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, the Nordic countries, etc".
****
http://afroeuropeansistersnetwork.blogspot.com/2009/10/2010-conference-about-women-and-control.html
“Welcome to the Afro European Sisters Network (AESN). A site that focuses on networking black women in and outside of Europe. As women tell their stories it allows others to learn lessons from their lives. Sharing this knowledge will also empower women with the ability to become one.”
****
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-is-afroeurope-who-are.html "What is Afro-Europe? Who are the Afro-Europeans or black Europeans?"
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 by Sibo Kano*
*Pancocojams Editor's Note: Sibo Kano is Afro-Flemish [from Belgium]
"...The central question is what a Nigerian in Italy, an Angolan in Sweden, a Jamaican in the UK and a mixed race Congolese in France or Germany have in common. Europe is not even united so how would black people coming from different nations feel united within Europe? We don’t even have a common language. Below I will give my opinion on this issue.
...What we have in common is the western and European experience, and the way we are categorized within Europe as a certain kind of people. Whether you are in France, Germany, Italy or any other European country, the majority white people of Europe perceive people of African ancestry in quite the same way. This categorization isn’t entrenched in the laws of European nations, but for centuries in the past it was. It isn’t something we can easily describe nor can we demonstrate it through clear facts and figures. However, through a history of relations between Europe and the darker peoples of the planet, the ‘black man’ has received a certain place. Although racial slavery has been abolished, and racist laws eradicated from law books, the concepts and ideas inherited from more than 5 centuries of African-European relationships are still there. Whatever the colour of our skin, we are part of this history...An anomaly
Black people in Europe, whether with brown or black skin, whether born there or not, whether having a white parent or not, whether adopted or not, whether they speak the national language or not, whether integrated or not, ...are all perceived as a certain kind of foreigners. They are not supposed to be there. But in reality most black people in Europe have built their homes in Europe, have adopted European cultures as their own and are perfectly integrated. If not the first generation, then certainly their children...
This experience; being perceived as foreigners from a common continent (whether being really a foreigner or not), is central in the creation of our identity. Identity is based on the relationship you have with others. I do think that most Europeans of African ancestry, i.e culturally integrated black people, would prefer just to be seen as part of the country where they are living, fully accepted as members of that society. In reality it is not so. Even when they have actually forgotten the cultures and languages of their ancestors and only know the Western world as their world, they will still be seen as an anomaly within the Western world, even after generations...
The presence of black people in Europe is a logic consequence of the African-European history. Europe seems not to accept this logic."...
****
http://afroeurope.blogspot.nl/2010/12/break-blogging-black-from-netherlands.html "The break: Blogging Black from the Netherlands and how I became an Afro-European" by Erik K. [lead editor of Afro-Europe International Blog]
"...my Afro-European element what I perhaps share with other Afro-Europeans is that I want to have a piece of the country where I was born and raised in. It’s position I don’t even have to defend. Being black and European means that I also have an Afro-European connection on issues like race, black success and other specific black issues. But there is one issue that I consider very important, I don’t only have connection with Afro-Europe, but also with Africa."
-snip-
Note from Pancocojams editor:
In the one year that I started blogging on afro-europe.com, I've noticed that there have been some other African American commenters on that site, as well as some South American commenters. For that reason, I think that Erik K would probably now amend his comment above to write "I don't only have connections with Afro-Europe, but also with Africa and the rest of the African Diaspora". That's certainly how I feel.
Update: Afroeurope blog editor Erik K. confirmed my guess in a comment that he added to this post on July 4, 2013.
****
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2013/07/photo-book-afropean-odyssey-black.html July 1, 2013 Photo book: "An Afropean Odyssey" - A Black European Travel Narrative
This post includes selected photographs and a video of photographs from award winning writer, photographer, and London television host Johny Pitts.
"Video: A photo-montage from my travels around Europe looking at Afropean/ Black European culture with Joy Denalane's 'Vier Frauen' (Sara Tavares, Chiwoniso, Déborah, Joy Denalane) as a the soundtrack.
****
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Afro-European-Sisters-Network/112233385459365
****
http://blog.blackwomenineurope.com
"English - Blackwomenineurope, Afroeuropeans, Expatriates
A place to celebrate women of the African Diaspora living in Europe."
****
FEATURED VIDEOS
Example #1: Faces of Afro-European people
AfroPrideTV, Uploaded on Jan 14, 2012
Here's the words that are found on the screen in the beginning of this video:
“Black people in Europe (Sometimes referred to as Afro-Europeans), although this term is also used to describe people of mixed African and European descent, especially in the former European colonies, are black people who are residents or citizens of European countries. They include immigrants as well as European-born people of Black African descent.
A council of European parliamentary assembly report on immigration from sub-Saharan Africa gives the number of sub-Saharan African migrants to Europe as between 3.5 and 8 million concentrated mainly in Belgium, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom. The report also notes that these figures are likely underestimated because of illegal migration.”
Notes:
This video features photographs of famous movie stars, athletes, singers and other famous Afro-Europeans. Most of the examples are from the United Kingdom. This video also includes people of African descent from Turkey.
As one might expect from a YouTube viewer comment thread of a video of this subject, many of the comments about this video are argumentative & racist. Nevertheless, there are some interesting comments on that comment thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVHHQOikZpY
****
Warning for public school use: There's a very brief photograph of topless women in this video. Pancocojams usually doesn't include videos of such scenes.
Example #2: Les Nubians- Sugar Cane (What is Black Beauty?)
Nina513, Uploaded on Aug 8, 2010
A video dedicated to the beauty that is Les Nubians has been LONG overdue on youtube. This video is dedicated two these two sisters and the African ancestors who shine through them. They inspire so many people around the world through their music, style and honesty.
This song is off of their debut album "Princesses Nubiennes" and happens to be one of my favorites from them. Play close attention to the meaning of this song and the pictures included.
God bless!
****
Thanks to all those who are mentioned in this post. Special shout out and special thanks to Erik K from http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/ Although that blog's posts & comments will be available for reading and new comments will still be able to be added to those posts, regretfully the lead editor Erik K. has decided that the post by Johhny Pitts that is mentioned above is the last post that will be published on that blog.
I'm glad that I happened upon that afro-europe blog in 2012. My first comment on that blog was in response to a 2009 post by Sibo Kano about being Afro-European. Excerpts of that post are found above, and that comment that I wrote is found in the comment section to this post.
****
Thank you for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
This pancocojams post provides information & commentary about the group referents "Afro-European" and "Afropean". Links to additional posts about this population & two videos that feature persons from this population are also included in this post.
The content of this post is presented for cultural, sociological, educational, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Disclaimer: As I am an African American living in the United States, I wouldn't dream of speaking for Afro-Europeans/Afropeans, although, according to my understanding of the definitions of "Afro-European" and "Afropean", if I were to move to Europe, I would be considered a member of that population.
Additions & corrections to the information & commentary that is presented in this post are very welcome.
****
DEFINITIONS OF "AFRO-EUROPEAN" & "AFROPEAN"
"Afro-European" is a referent for persons of Black African descent who were born in or who live in European nations. A second definition of "Afro-European" is that it refers to mixed racial persons of Black African & White European ancestry.*
"Afropean" is a shortened form of that same referent.
The term "Afro-European" follows the same structure of such population referents as "Afro-American", "Afro-Cuban", and "Afro-Caribbean". Each of these terms are formed by combining the prefix "Afro" (meaning "African") with the word "European".
*I wrote "White European" because I think that the world is moving away from a time when the term "European" is a synonym for "White".
Some could maintain that "African American" could be a referent for a person of any race from Africa who now lives in the United States of America [notwithstanding the fact that "America" actually refers to much more than the USA]. Therefore, I suppose "Afro-European" could also refer to White people from Africa who now live in Europe. (Or maybe the referent for White Africans would be "Euro-Africans". However, I've never seen "Euro-African" used & I'm not promoting its use.)
But defining "Afro-European" as a person of any race from Africa now living in Europe" doesn't appear to be the usual meaning of the term "Afro-European". However, it's the reason why in the definition above I added the word "Black" before the phrase "African descent".
And would "Asian Africans" be a generalized referent for Asians living in Africa or who were born in Africa? There are, after all, White people and other People of Color besides Black people living in or who were born in most African nations. I wonder if there are any generalized, pan-African referents for that population which includes those who are racially mixed and/or who aren't racially mixed. Given the rising number of Chinese in Africa, it seems to me that such a racial referent may be needed now or in the immediate future.
****
Here are two definitions of "Afropean" from urbandictionary.com :
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afropean (Note: These examples are presented in chronological order with the oldest date first.)
1. Afropean
Person who relates both to Africa and Europe. Usually a person of African descent who lives in Europe and has European tastes and tendencies. Also children of both African and European parentage.
"English is your first language and you don't speak an African language, not even your mother tongue? You're so Afropean!"
"Khaki pants? This is a city not the bush - you're not African anymore. You're Afropean."
"His father's Dutch and his mother's Namibian, the boy's Afropean."
by Mutaleni Nadimi Aug 9, 2006
2. Afropean:
Term to describe the trans-cultural influences of (..usually...) mixed race individuals, or members of the black diaspora living in Europe. First coined by Talking Heads singer David Byrne, to describe the music of Belgo-Congolese group 'Zap Mama'.* Later popularized by Afro-French sister duo Les Nubians.
"They burst onto the international music scene more than a decade ago, with a blend of European and African styles they call "Afropean."**
-An Afropean, Feb 25, 2012
*Read more about Zap Mama & David Byrne in the online examples section below. I'm not certain whether Zap Mama or David Byrne coined the album title "Afropea" or if that form of the referent "Afropean" was used prior to the involvement of Zap Mama with David Byrne's record company. Also, click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/07/zap-mama-erykah-badu-bandy-bandy.html to find an example of a later Zap Mama song entitled "Bandy Bandy".
**This is a quote from a 2011 NPR program about the duo
“Les Nubians”. http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/134822770/Afropean-Soul-Sisters-Bring-A-Nu-Revolution
A video of "Les Nubians" is found below.
Additional definitions of "Afro-European:/"Afropean" are found throughout this post.
****
A FEW ONLINE EXAMPLES OF THESE REFERENTS
Note: My sincere thanks to the editors & authors of these blogs, websites, facebook page, and other online examples.
The first use of a form of the referent “Afropean” that I found was from 3/1991 (the title of a Zap Mama album). "Zap Mama" is a Belgium neo-soul singing group & also the stage name of its lead singer Marie Daulne who is of Belgium/Congolese ancestry:
"....In 1989, she [Marie Dauline] founded the group Zap Mama to merge the African and European aspects of her identity.[15] Daulne auditioned scores of female singers looking for the right combination of voices for an a cappella ensemble.[16] "When I did my first album, I was looking for girls that were the same mix as me--African and European," she says.[10] "I wanted to put these two sounds together to prove that to have blood from white and black was perfect harmony on the inside."
In 1992, Zap Mama came to the United States for the first time to perform at New Music Seminar in New York. There, they met David Byrne and agreed to let him reissue Zap Mama's first recordings as Adventures in Afropea 1[9] on Luaka Bop Records.[17] By the end of the year, Billboard announced it was the top seller for "world music."-From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zap_Mama
****
http://www.caar-web.org/fileadmin/user_upload/files/call_for_contributions_encyclodedia_of_afro-european_studies.pdf
“The project Afroeurope@ans: Black cultures and identities in Europe funded by the Spanish Ministry of Science & Technology, is pleased to circulate this call for contributions to its exciting new project – the creation of the first online multilingual Encyclopedia of Afro-European Studies. The Encyclopedia constitutes a seminal step in a series of activities undertaken by the Afroeurope@ans Project since 2004, including the organization of biannual conferences, the publication of the e-journal AFROEUROPA: Journal of Afroeuropean Studies and a collection of essays Afroeurope@ans: Culture and Identities (Cambridge Scholars, 2009) and expanding the network of scholars, artists, and activists through academic exchange and cultural events.
The Encyclopedia will cover a range of topics related to the presence of Africans or people of African descent throughout Europe from the shores of the Atlantic to the Ural mountains including Spain, France, Italy, Portugal, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, the Nordic countries, etc".
****
http://afroeuropeansistersnetwork.blogspot.com/2009/10/2010-conference-about-women-and-control.html
“Welcome to the Afro European Sisters Network (AESN). A site that focuses on networking black women in and outside of Europe. As women tell their stories it allows others to learn lessons from their lives. Sharing this knowledge will also empower women with the ability to become one.”
****
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-is-afroeurope-who-are.html "What is Afro-Europe? Who are the Afro-Europeans or black Europeans?"
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 by Sibo Kano*
*Pancocojams Editor's Note: Sibo Kano is Afro-Flemish [from Belgium]
"...The central question is what a Nigerian in Italy, an Angolan in Sweden, a Jamaican in the UK and a mixed race Congolese in France or Germany have in common. Europe is not even united so how would black people coming from different nations feel united within Europe? We don’t even have a common language. Below I will give my opinion on this issue.
...What we have in common is the western and European experience, and the way we are categorized within Europe as a certain kind of people. Whether you are in France, Germany, Italy or any other European country, the majority white people of Europe perceive people of African ancestry in quite the same way. This categorization isn’t entrenched in the laws of European nations, but for centuries in the past it was. It isn’t something we can easily describe nor can we demonstrate it through clear facts and figures. However, through a history of relations between Europe and the darker peoples of the planet, the ‘black man’ has received a certain place. Although racial slavery has been abolished, and racist laws eradicated from law books, the concepts and ideas inherited from more than 5 centuries of African-European relationships are still there. Whatever the colour of our skin, we are part of this history...An anomaly
Black people in Europe, whether with brown or black skin, whether born there or not, whether having a white parent or not, whether adopted or not, whether they speak the national language or not, whether integrated or not, ...are all perceived as a certain kind of foreigners. They are not supposed to be there. But in reality most black people in Europe have built their homes in Europe, have adopted European cultures as their own and are perfectly integrated. If not the first generation, then certainly their children...
This experience; being perceived as foreigners from a common continent (whether being really a foreigner or not), is central in the creation of our identity. Identity is based on the relationship you have with others. I do think that most Europeans of African ancestry, i.e culturally integrated black people, would prefer just to be seen as part of the country where they are living, fully accepted as members of that society. In reality it is not so. Even when they have actually forgotten the cultures and languages of their ancestors and only know the Western world as their world, they will still be seen as an anomaly within the Western world, even after generations...
The presence of black people in Europe is a logic consequence of the African-European history. Europe seems not to accept this logic."...
****
http://afroeurope.blogspot.nl/2010/12/break-blogging-black-from-netherlands.html "The break: Blogging Black from the Netherlands and how I became an Afro-European" by Erik K. [lead editor of Afro-Europe International Blog]
"...my Afro-European element what I perhaps share with other Afro-Europeans is that I want to have a piece of the country where I was born and raised in. It’s position I don’t even have to defend. Being black and European means that I also have an Afro-European connection on issues like race, black success and other specific black issues. But there is one issue that I consider very important, I don’t only have connection with Afro-Europe, but also with Africa."
-snip-
Note from Pancocojams editor:
In the one year that I started blogging on afro-europe.com, I've noticed that there have been some other African American commenters on that site, as well as some South American commenters. For that reason, I think that Erik K would probably now amend his comment above to write "I don't only have connections with Afro-Europe, but also with Africa and the rest of the African Diaspora". That's certainly how I feel.
Update: Afroeurope blog editor Erik K. confirmed my guess in a comment that he added to this post on July 4, 2013.
****
http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2013/07/photo-book-afropean-odyssey-black.html July 1, 2013 Photo book: "An Afropean Odyssey" - A Black European Travel Narrative
This post includes selected photographs and a video of photographs from award winning writer, photographer, and London television host Johny Pitts.
"Video: A photo-montage from my travels around Europe looking at Afropean/ Black European culture with Joy Denalane's 'Vier Frauen' (Sara Tavares, Chiwoniso, Déborah, Joy Denalane) as a the soundtrack.
****
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Afro-European-Sisters-Network/112233385459365
****
http://blog.blackwomenineurope.com
"English - Blackwomenineurope, Afroeuropeans, Expatriates
A place to celebrate women of the African Diaspora living in Europe."
****
FEATURED VIDEOS
Example #1: Faces of Afro-European people
AfroPrideTV, Uploaded on Jan 14, 2012
Here's the words that are found on the screen in the beginning of this video:
“Black people in Europe (Sometimes referred to as Afro-Europeans), although this term is also used to describe people of mixed African and European descent, especially in the former European colonies, are black people who are residents or citizens of European countries. They include immigrants as well as European-born people of Black African descent.
A council of European parliamentary assembly report on immigration from sub-Saharan Africa gives the number of sub-Saharan African migrants to Europe as between 3.5 and 8 million concentrated mainly in Belgium, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom. The report also notes that these figures are likely underestimated because of illegal migration.”
Notes:
This video features photographs of famous movie stars, athletes, singers and other famous Afro-Europeans. Most of the examples are from the United Kingdom. This video also includes people of African descent from Turkey.
As one might expect from a YouTube viewer comment thread of a video of this subject, many of the comments about this video are argumentative & racist. Nevertheless, there are some interesting comments on that comment thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVHHQOikZpY
****
Warning for public school use: There's a very brief photograph of topless women in this video. Pancocojams usually doesn't include videos of such scenes.
Example #2: Les Nubians- Sugar Cane (What is Black Beauty?)
Nina513, Uploaded on Aug 8, 2010
A video dedicated to the beauty that is Les Nubians has been LONG overdue on youtube. This video is dedicated two these two sisters and the African ancestors who shine through them. They inspire so many people around the world through their music, style and honesty.
This song is off of their debut album "Princesses Nubiennes" and happens to be one of my favorites from them. Play close attention to the meaning of this song and the pictures included.
God bless!
****
Thanks to all those who are mentioned in this post. Special shout out and special thanks to Erik K from http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/ Although that blog's posts & comments will be available for reading and new comments will still be able to be added to those posts, regretfully the lead editor Erik K. has decided that the post by Johhny Pitts that is mentioned above is the last post that will be published on that blog.
I'm glad that I happened upon that afro-europe blog in 2012. My first comment on that blog was in response to a 2009 post by Sibo Kano about being Afro-European. Excerpts of that post are found above, and that comment that I wrote is found in the comment section to this post.
****
Thank you for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
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