Ti's Hot Mess History, Feb 7, 2022
If you have ever had even a surface level conversation about
blacks in The United States of America, chances are that you have heard of the
brown paper bag test or the paper bag test. Very briefly, in case you haven’t
heard of it…
The brown paper bag test is an early 1900’s discriminatory
practice that blacks used against other blacks - in which an individual’s skin
tone is compared to the color of a brown paper bag. One was said to pass the test by having a
skin tone that matched the hue of the paper bag or was lighter than the paper
bag. What did passing the test mean? Access to privileges. Those privileges
could be anything from gaining membership to sororities, fraternities and other
social clubs to gaining admission to schools and even churches. Definitely not an example of black people at
our finest hour.
But today, I want to discuss the black and partially black
people who opened the door that allowed the paper bag test to become a reality.
The lighter black Americans who used the brown paper bag test as a tactic to
distance themselves from darker black Americans actually had a predecessor
group of light complexion blacks, biracials, mulattos, quadroons and octoroons
who prided themselves on THEIR proximity to whiteness; and saw dark
complexioned black as inferior. The
pre-brown paper bag testing group was called the Blue Vein Society. As their
name suggests, they delighted in having skin that was so white, that their blue
veins could be seen through it. And they wanted absolutely nothing to do with
other blacks whose veins were concealed by their dark skin. And they went out
of their way to make their disdain for those dark skinned blacks to be made
public.”….
-snip-
The narrator indicates that the first mention of Blue Vein Society was in a
newspaper in 1873.
****
Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube video and some comments from its discussion thread about The Blue Vein Society and the brown paper bag test.
Most of these comments in this compilation are from African Americans. A few commenters are from people from the Caribbean and elsewhere.
The content of this post is presented for historical, socio-cultural, and educational purposes.
All copyrights remains their owners.
Thanks to Ti's Hot Mess History for researching and publishing this video and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
The term "Blue Vein Society" wasn't the name of any particular organization or organizations (institutions), but refers to the type of social organizations/institutions that prohibited membership or participation by people whose skin was darker than a certain complexion.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/03/article-excerpt-lousiana-creole-people.html for the closely related pancocojams post entitled "Article Excerpt - "Louisiana Creole People" (as historical background for information & comments about the Blue Vein Societies and the brown bag tests)."
****
DISCLAIMER: Some commenters specifically mentioned Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc, Jack & Jill of America, and The Links as Blue Vein Society (type) organizations. This is a small example of the social organizations that either considered themselves or were considered "Blue Vein Societies.
Judging from online content, these organizations no longer adhere to these colorist rules.
Click Wikipedia links for information about these organizations.
****
SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO'S DISCUSSION THREAD
2022
1. Lailah Lynn Media
"Awesome video, Ti. A
lot of people deny this type of history.
But it's real and it's affected generations of people."
**
Reply
2. Ti's Hot Mess History
"Thank you so much, Lailah!
You're right. It WAS real and is
real now. There's even denial in this
comment section. It's shameful."
Reply
3. Leah Ben Israel
"Also in the Caribbean"
**
4. Addicted To Success
"Colorism, featurism (typically hate against our nose and
lips), and texturism (hate against Afro textured hair) is still HIGHLY rampant
in our community. We need to do better! Dark skin women are the ones mainly
impacted now."
5.
"Unfortunately, we are still living like this today! As a little girl I was called every
derogatory name because I am dark skin. Just thinking about it hurts me! Thanks for the video! I never heard about the
Blue vein Society."
**
6. S Larvadain
"I’m from New Orleans and yes this was true in many
households at one time. I believe my great grandparents were like that just
because one of my grandfathers is darker and he said he had to meet my
grandmother’s parents to get approval. It’s something that no one should be
proud of."
**
Reply
7. green byrd
"@S Larvadain No, it is definitely not something to be
proud of. Something similar happened to my uncle. A classmate from college took
him home for the weekend and was told not to bring him back. This was in 1968.
Everyone in her family was very light, and they let him know (through their
non-verbals) that he was not considered to be their equal. Pathetic!"
Reply
8.
"T La I’m definitely aware but was sharing my family’s
experiences because my city was notorious for colorism at one time. So that was enough to deal with. I’m on a
lighter spectrum and feel bad for how that slave mentality divided us and still
to this day in many ways."
**
Reply
9. S Larvadain
"@green byrd Definitely !
I’m just happy my siblings and I wasn’t raised with that mindset."
**
Reply
10. green byrd
" @S Larvadain Me too! 😊"
**
Reply
11. La Jo
"My daddy called them the 7th Warders because that's where
the light skins lived when he was growing up in the late 40's-60's"
-snip-
This comment refers to the 7th Ward New Orleans, Louisiana neighborhood.
**
Reply
12. La Jo
"Also the Autocrat Club was light skinned and shunned the
darker skins which is why the Zulu club was created. When whites started
wanting to be a part of Zulu then so did they"
Reply
13.
"Don't forget the backwoods of North Carolina. Colorism is
alive and well."
**
Reply
14. Just Andrea
"My mom told me not to adopt a dark skinned child because
they would not look like my husband and I. I was like, come on man. That's
crazy. But she grew up in Mississippi and that's how they think. I am very very
fair but I've always wanted to be darker."
Reply
15.
"So true when i was growing up i use to hear black boys say
my mother or aunt or grandma told me to marry a white woman so i can have
pretty kids when i grow up.A lot of black people feel that way today,When a
black man don't have anything he'll want that black woman by his side,but let
that joker become famous,he will want everything except a black woman.The black
man go to thinking that their better than us.Check out the NFL sports.Their
wives or girlfriends are white or mixed with another race.Just because you
marry outside your race don't mean your kids will be pretty!!!"
**
Reply
16. S Larvadain
"@Laurie Williams It’s funny you mention white women. My mom
always said back in the day they would get money and get them a high yellow
woman 😂. My mom said they don’t even want us (light
skinned women) anymore, they want straight up white because they’ve got easier
access to them now."
-snip-
"high yellow" = informal term for a very light skinned person
Reply
17. TG Hamilton
"Yep, the women were also called the Washington, D.C. Pinks.:
**
Reply
18. green byrd
"@TG Hamilton OMG! 🙄"
**
Reply
19. TG Hamilton
"@green byrd My 80+ year old elders are light skinned. They were too dark for the DC Pinks, but a few cousins were white passing. They were also DC Pinks back in the day."
Reply
20.
"@TG Hamilton Fix it Jesus! 😂"
**
Reply
21. TG Hamilton
"@green byrd Mostly deceased now, but I didn't even know
that some of my own second cousins were white passing. I was like....WHAT?!*
But, I get it. There was a time when their survival may have depended on it as
there were hard and obvious barrier to prosperity and education if you were
Black. It is what it is/was."
**
Reply
22. green byrd
"@TG Hamilton Sad, but true."
Reply
23.
"South America as well"
**
Reply
24. Christa
"As a native of south Louisiana I can confirm this is
accurate. There are a few other
Louisiana communities that can be added to the list."
Reply
25.
"Green Byrd, don't also forget in Georgia, especially in the
ATL area and Methodist! My grandfather's family were for the most part all
light skinned, Methodist and had businesses and trade. My grandfather married a
dark skinned, beautiful, smooth skinned, high cheek bone, silky haired black
woman and his family tried to lose contact with him."
-snip-
"ATL"= Atlanta, Georgia
**
Reply
26. green byrd
"@sand mors Wow. Never heard that about Methodists, but I
was Methodist growing up and come to think of it, they did have a thing about
the "big important" churches preferring light skinned pastors. So
crazy!"
**
Reply
27. Nicole Smith
"Yes it the
Caribbean there's a lot of colorism. There was a saying that was said by my
great grandmother it goes if you black stay back, if you brown stick around and
if you're white/fair skin welcome or come around something to that effect. This
whole thinking 🤔
and mentality came from slavery and
trickled down to our grandparents and parents. We need to break this cycle but
I still see colorism being perpetuated in our generation and society which is
pretty sad and stupid 😔
at the same time."
Reply
28.
"@Nicole Smith
You're from the Caribbean? I'm from Ohio and I heard the same saying,
just phrased a little differently: "If you're white, you're alright. If
you're yellow, you're mellow. If you're brown, stick around. But if you're
black, get back." So, from the beautiful Caribbean to land locked Ohio,
looks like the same foolishness is embedded in the culture. You're right. It is sad and stupid."
**
Reply
29. sand mors
"@TG Hamilton but there was some passers that also helped
the black cause, example: there was a multiracial man who passed as white and
infiltrated the KKK and shared that information with black groups preventing
possible lynchings and house burning. Not all light skinned people are against
their dark skinned brethren. I say, use it to your advantage if you can pass to
help your people."
-snip-
"passers" = people with some Black African descent who "passed" for White
**
Reply
30. Foluke Bady
"As a Washingtinian you are absolutely correct. I saw it as a child and teen and
furthermore, I see it in more discreet cunning ways in industries, sororities,
spiritual organizations."
**
30. Nichola Lewis
"This video is a lot to unpack! I've never heard of the Blue
Vein Society, but growing up in the New Orleans 7th ward I'm familiar with the
brown paper bag test. Colorism deeply affected families by pitting the light
against the darker relatives. The lighter your complexion and the more European
features you had, you were crowned the "favorite". Imagine being a
child and only seeing pictures of your light complexioned relatives featured prominently
around the house while the darker relatives were in the photo album."
**
31. Chica Robertson
"Color-struck is what we used also.. It's now called
colorism..."
**
32. An Uncolonized Mind
"I am so tired of this Light skinned vs Dark skinned mess.
I have heard My mom say negative things all my life.
My mom was born in
the 40s & is light skinned & brainwashed.. still to this day.
My little brother is light like her & our dad is dark skin, I came out somewhere in
the middle. So she always favored him more, than she does me.
My dad used to say she is "color struck" I
honestly don't know how, they came to be married. 🤷🏾♀️
We are all black, no
matter the shade. This has always seemed very stupid to me."
**
33. Ronald Higgins
"It's a sad sickness that we as black folks are going to have
to keep dealing with. It hasn't entirely gone away. Its not as blatant and ugly
as it was years ago, but it is still with us. I had an aunt who would always
tell me to get a light skin yellow gal. I paid her no mind. Plus I was a young
boy at the time and didn't really
understand the depth of that comment. Now that I am much older and do, how sad
it was."
**
34. karlkilcrease51
"Here in Pittsburgh, up to the early 1970's our high yellers
were called The Five Hundreds. They had a private club, The Loendi and they
held the paper bag test close to their hearts. We laughed at these wannabes,
with their heads full of fur, and regardless of how light they were, the
Pittsburgh whites still called them "The N Word," with impunity."
-snip-
Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
**
35. lionessawaking42412
"My dad taught me about the paper bag test….he hated it. My
dad could ‘pass’ the test and yet he hated how divisive it was to black
community.
**
36. Darren Ridley
…."it starts with us being brutally honest about
the situation. There are no groups, organizations even cities or towns that
excluded light skin blacks. This doesn't mean light skin blacks didn't have
colorism issues , it's just not the same."
**
Reply
37. BlindMellowJelly
" @Darren Ridley True but I heard tales of how when a light
guy came into one of the juke's back in the day men would pull guns on them
cause they thought they would mess with their wife or GF. Many do not know how
painful it is for a entire Town to turn their back on you because you might be
light. Cab Calloway and Duke Ellington spoke of this and how relatives and
loved ones just hated them for no real reason. That is the conditioning whitey
passed on to them and they arent educated enough to have seen the pain. I have
a whole side of my families (both sides) that will never ever know me or my
grandchildren because of this topic. I just hope one of mine does not marry any
and create genetic f—kery*.
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.
**
38. Yona Avraham
"I knew about both the blue vein society and the intraracial
prejudice in the black race.
Nothing has changed.Today they call it a preference,but if
you look at celebs and who is promoted it's still the light skinned woman over
the dark skinned woman and the dark skinned man over the lighter skinned man."
**
Reply
39. Tee Willi
"Even in commercials. You rarely see brown or dark skinned
little girls. In the off chance that the family is brown to dark, only the
little girl will light or look "mixed" with softer textured big hair.
It's not much better for brown and dark women. And the more black people are in
commercials, the more light, or mixed big haired black women appear. Also
notice how it's mostly black people paired with non-black partners in commercials.
This is rarely seen for other races."
**
40. Gemini Queen
"I have a friend whose mother would have passed the brown
paper bag test, and whose father would not have passed. She said her father told her, "don't
ever think that you're better than someone else because you are lighter than
them, because that means that anyone who's lighter than you is better than
you." She also said her mother grew
up poor and her father was the one who was privileged."
**
41. Janita Poe, Ph.D.
"We have the rainbow in my extended family and I can tell
you, as some know, this issue cuts ALL ways:
1) The valuing of light exists in Black people of all hues.
In fact, the most over-the-top hate towards the darker-skinned fam that I've
seen has come from medium-skinned peeps who seem to care a lot about color.
2) A lot (not all!) of light-skinned blacks wish they were
darker and try very hard to be loved by the only community they've ever known.
3) As a people, we may bully the darkest child on the
playground but as adults it's absolutely the reverse. e.g. It is the norm for a
sister to say "I'm not attracted to light skinned men" -- often right
in front of them -- and no one blinks (Imagine the reverse. All h... would
break loose on the speaker). "The blacker the berry, the sweeter the
juice" is an anthem in some circles as are other sayings that uplift and
affirm our darkest.
My view is that the healing needs to happen for us all."
**
42. Exquisite Beauty by Jacqueline
"Hello Ti, unfortunately I knew about most all of this.
Colorism is alive. It runs on both
sides, light and dark, and keeps people divided. My great great aunts , grandmother and great
aunts were some of the school teachers in those days. Many of them left the deep south to teach in
the north. Also, my quadroon grandad
stopped speaking to my mom for five years because she married a dark man! Her first love, was very light like her, and
granddad liked him. I knew about those
stupid tests because I grew up in Alabama, and they still did a bit of that
during my lifetime. Great episode!"
**
Reply
43. Exquisite Beauty by Jacqueline
"@Ashanti
Edwards I have no side in this
mess. My parents are from the opposite
spectrum of appearance. My dark skinned
dad always told me he chose my mom because in his words "black ____are
evil". So obviously there was some
self hatred there. I actually was
excluded from a club my darker biological brothers belong to because I take
after my mom, and was considered "watered down". "Y all" must mean you are
generalizing based on my appearance, and that defines the problem."
**
Reply
44. Ashanti Edwards
"@Exquisite Beauty by
Jacqueline clearly you have a side
because after all that was presented in the video you commented that colorism
is on both sides. You cant find examples of dark skinned blacks doing all the
things the light skinned blacks have done throughout history. What's the name
of this club that excluded you? Generalizing based on your light skin doesnt
define the problem at all. Making death threats and harassing people for no
other reason that they are dark skinned defines the problem. Excluding people
from the workforce because they are dark skinned defines the problem. Coveting
your white blood defines the problem. Stop tryna deflect from that with petty
examples that clearly are the extreme exception and tryna equate them to the
behavior that was the rule for light skinned people."
**
Reply
45. Jessica Williams
"@Ashanti Edwards Darkskinned folks may not have formed groups
and alienated lightskinned folks, but getting bullied everyday because of your
complexion is more than some hurt feelings. I didn't have to go through this,
but my lightskinned sisters did. My brother, although he is light as well
didn't go through it because they were too afraid of him. Black people as a
whole have abused each other, but everyone wants to act like abuse against
lightskinned black folks is okay, or they try to downplay it like it is nothing
serious or just some hurt feelings."
**
46. S Larvadain
"Being from New Orleans, I’ve heard of the paper bag test
from my grandparents. Most of the beautiful sisters holding up the paper bag in
your video would not have passed. My
family is an old Creole family and that is one of the embarrassing stain on
black American history."
**
Reply
47. S Larvadain
"Curly💞 I never said being Creole is an embarrassment.
I said colorism is an embarrassing stain on the black community. I’m Creole on both sides, born and raised in
New Orleans with family who still speak Creole.
I’m true to it but we can’t deny that many Creole families practiced
colorism."
**
48. Felicia Jenkins
"I grew up in the 70's-80's and unfortunately have some
relatives who don't want anything to do with me cause I'm not light skin. I was
the darkest one in my house but never got that kind of rejection from my mother
who is very light or brother. Meanwhile
those relatives I've been fortunate enough to not be around are not missed."
**
49. David Buirst
"I saw some documentaries about Creoles that blew my mind. I couldn't
believe so much started from that including sororities, fraternities and social
clubs..
Love the fact you said it produced cycles that lasted
generations and still exist"
**
50. Terminator X
"My grandma once encountered a paper bag party at
Tuskegee University…She was denied entry."
**
51. Nicole Smith
"Rosa Parks was not the first person to not give up her seat on the bus. A few years
prior there was a 15 year old girl named Claudette Colvin read up on her that
did this not giving up her seat on the bus. But the difference between Rosa and
Claudette was colorism and ageism. Rosa got the shine cause of being lighter
hue than Claudette also Rosa was mature in age. While Claudette the true and
first activist remained in the back for us to research."
**
52. N̳o̳v̳a̳☆HittingTheGroundRunning ♏️2.0
"This reality is a painful part of my childhood.
Colorism is horrible in the Caribbean community"
**
53. Alfreda Gross
"I am a great grandma! The year 1967. Because the inside of my wrist
is light with blue veins running through I was invited to join our neighborhood
light skin girls, bougie, upper class club. Sadly beautiful girls darker than a
paper bag were never asked.to join. Afro hair, I’m black and I’m proud was
shameful to most of our light skinned parents,
Doctors , Judges , Attorneys , teachers, preachers who so called arrived
were full of self hate. SMH"
**
54. Sheila B
"It's sad we still live in these days and times. My mother
was 1 of 14 all by the same man and woman . Different complexions dark skin ,
light skinned, bright and pecan. Not once did any of them think they were
better than the other. My mom never raised her children to think or feel less
than. Yes, I'm light skinned came from a beautiful pecan woman, my biological
mother. Only classmates made an issue of being light. Not my family. People still haven't grown
up."
**
Reply
55. Jessica Williams
"Amen!! I'm brown from a very lightskinned mother
and she never raised us to be that way. I raise my girls the same way. People
start in on complexion conversation with them and they look at them like they
are stupid. It's so many more important things in life than somebody's blue
veins and paper bags. I hate that it was our people who came up with this dumb
ish!!"
**
56. biggasmelly
"Great Story Thank you.
This mindset still exists in Jamaica to this day. Where
Light skinned Black people and very Light skinned Black people who look nearly
white are called "BROWNING" They get all the top jobs in the Banks,
and nearly all major corporations. In the Parliament they are the majority
compared to the darker skin Black politicians. Historically it has always been
this way in Jamaica since the abolition of Slavery. Take a look at a photo of
the current Prime Minister of Jamaica to see what i am speaking about.."
**
57. Andrea Brown
"This is so true my mom family treated darker skin people
like myself and darker like they were less than I just thought it was something
that was done only in her family but as I got older I noticed that not only did
this happen in my mom family it was happening every where. Which is so
unfortunate because my dad is light skin that if he wanted to he could pass for
another race he never did that thankfully he taught me that no matter what you
look like or what complexion I am I was special to him thank you dad for that❤️"
**
58. gabriella johnson
"Girrrrl you have just blown my mind!!
Omgawd I thought Spike Lee movie “School Daze” was deep but this “Blue Vein
Society “ is scary because I’m dark skinned and it still carry’s on in Chicago
and in the BLACK COMMUNITY"
**
59. Thomas Malone
"I've heard about this. My (now) late
grandmother used to talk about her aunt Sarah being in a sorority that was
afflicted* with the blue vein society. She always made it sound like a badge of
honor or something.it is the first time i ever heard of something my
grandmother would talk about in actual history."
-snip-
*Afflicted= is a typo for “affiliated”
**
60. Melanie Allen
"Great video! I’m from and live in
Shreveport, LA. I never knew Shreveport had it’s own Blue Vein Society.
Colorism has really done a number on our community."
**
61. Minsky Brown
"That was a fascinating and well produced
video, thank you.
As a Black Brit of Caribbean descent I
had heard stories of my maternal Grandmother showing & telling people her
blue veins and stating that she was royalty. I now get the context which may
have caused her to do so in the 1920's.
And yes, please do the vid on colourism
pre slavery."
**
62. Jane Toler
"Yes,
I knew about the Blue Vein Society. My mother told me about it. She said
one of the largest Baptist church in Washington
D.C. was a blue vein church until a light skinned preacher came to that
church as their new pastor and his wife was dark skinned. The church changed
after that."
**
63. Black Butterfly
"I subscribed! Thank you for the
video and sad that this behavior is generational.... I remember being treated
differently growing up being darker than my light skinned sisters. I was
literally called a 'tar baby' going to an all white school in the 80's!!!!!!
But lo and behold in '98' I was asked if I was my son's nanny because he's
light skinned and me being that dark skinned woman. The feeling that came
behind that question - I can not put into words..."
**
64. Squalli 1
"I didn't know what colorism was until I
went to school in the 50's & was called "high yellow." I later
learned this was taught in the home that I didn't learn. As an adult in the
70's, I have applied at Black owned businesses which practiced the brown paper
bag rule. One employer did not hire an applicant unless his wife gave the
okay-appearance mattered to her. I believe colorism starts in the home &
the women whom run them. Girls are highly impacted by colorism growing up as
they see female celebs/entertainers & their impact on our society. It
somehow trickles down generationally."
**
65. Mz. Jackson
"This is a topic that truly hits home for
me on a very personal level and has profoundly shaped and impacted my own sense
of identity, community and belonging for as far back as I can remember. And
unlike the experience of many of my fellow mixed or light complected black
Americans, my upbringing was quite unusual in that I am descended from multiple
generations of so-called "Blue vein"
Negroes dating all the way back to at least the time of the Louisiana Purchase and most likely even
earlier, however records, dairies, ledgers and other documents produced prior
to the American Revolution are nearly impossible to come by - especially with
respect to those forebears who were enslaved. As an historian and archivist of
Black Diasporic Studies, I have spent a great number of years researching my
family's lineage on both maternal and paternal sides and have been quite
successful in obtaining a relatively substantial trove of information regarding
my ancestors, although to be fair, any success is credited mainly to the
impeccable collection of family paperwork, letters, journals and photos my
grandmother had accumulated over the course of her impressive life of 102 years
and bequeathed unto me shortly before her passing.
Speaking of passing (lol), my paternal
grandmother spent the greater portion of her life assuming the identity of a
Spanish woman or sometimes a French woman, depending upon the audience or
situation. As a light skinned Creole woman growing up in the Jim Crow South,
she, like her parents and their parents before them, had belonged to that
unique self-appointed class of
privileged black people whose fair skin, naturally wavy to straight hair
and seemingly European looking features
earned her an "elite" status
recognized by both blacks and whites ever since the first biracial babies began
to appear in the western hemisphere shortly after the arrival of Columbus.
Lighter skinned blacks typically enjoyed a significantly higher
"privileged" status than their darker counterparts in just about
every colony and nation in the New World,
particularly in such places as Saint Domingue (Haiti), Brazil, Cuba,
Argentina and the United States, however it should be noted that the practical
advantages awarded by such privileges varied astronomically between colonies
and even between states. In some very rare instances, lighter blacks were
granted some of the same rights as Whites. In Saint Domingue, for example,
prior to the Haitian Independence, a series of codes de Noire or black codes
were passed by France outlining the rights and privileges afforded to the gens
de colour libere or free men of color. These people were nearly exclusively
mixed or light complected blacks and were often the offspring of unions between
French elite and black enslaved women. They were permitted to receive an
education- often
In the U.S., it is perhaps unsurprising that a similar tradition of favoritism would develop in New Orleans, due most likely to the tremendous French influence of the city. Even long after Louisiana entered the US as a state and adopted a much harsher legislative attitude towards free blacks, New Orleans more or less maintained its traditions with respect to the more privileged treatment of lighter skinned folks.
From that tradition emerged the Creole community from which my
family descended. After the end of slavery in 1865, my great-great grandfather
established a bank and even served in local government for a term before being
forced out by Klan. Nonetheless , he and his wife lived quite well even when
everyone around them were struggling. From what I've learned of them, I am
ashamed to admit I find very little if anything redeemable about their
character or lack thereof. They were elitists and, while I don't know whether
they actually participated in the Blue Vein society, they were indeed poster
children for the cause! This deep sense of arrogance and entitlement passed on
down to their children and grandchildren
until, finally discarded by my dad. The psychological wounds, however,
remain and today I struggle with the guilt and shame of inheriting a shameful
legacy as well as the light skin and European features that unfairly won my
forebears unmerited favor and privilege
in a society ruled by the very ones who beat and raped those like my great
great great-grandmother whose children subsequently became the blue veins of
the following generation."
**
66. Bernadette Devereaux
"My mother’s side of the family had light
skin and hazel eyes. My uncle married a woman that his mother and sisters
always referred to her as “that Black gal” behind her back. Being called Black
was quite offensive until James Brown’s “Say it loud. I’m Black and I’m proud.” "
**
67. meeka boo
"I enjoyed watching. I learned some things about
our history of colorist. I want to mention that Spike Lee's movie, School Daze
gave a history lesson. In regards to Sororities and Fraternities and the
inflected division based in skin color/tones."
**
68. EbTheCeleb
"I’ll say this both my grandfathers (very dark men with wavy
hair) married very high yellow women. My mother’s mom shunned her because she
came out dark like her dad but her sister did not. It’s damaged my mother
greatly and me a bit. Her mom was so mean to me as a baby. Im broken but I
figure still obviously darker than her :( this is heartbreaking because it’s
real. I’ve seen my mothers mom in town and pasty ass would tilt her head up n
walk right past me. I mean she was white! Her only give away was her hair she
had very course hair."
**
69. Frances Walker
"Just to let you know, being called "high yella" is
offensive just as it is offensive calling someone "Nig-a*",
"darkie", "blackie", "blurple", etc. I don't know
why brown skin people think it's okay to talk about light skinned people
calling them "high yella"! It is NOT OKAY to say "HIGH
YELLA!""
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.
**
70. kerman725 n5
"Cab Callaway insisted that his dark skinned dancers after he
took over from Duke Ellington. He
insisted that they be paid higher wages.
His popularity was so strong the owners gave in."
**
71.
"No one mentioned the second test. Run a fine
tooth comb through your hair, if it catches a snag, you failed. I passed the paper bag test but failed the
hair test."
**
Reply
72. I'am V
"And most of them wouldn't pass the hair test or the size
test as well. Because most of them
probably don't have the size of top model Naomi Campbell. That goes to show you black people as a whole
need to wake up out of foolishness."
**
73. Sandra Brooks
"In my family I had heard bring home someone who can use my
comb. But our family feels we Black Black period. Cause white Privilege only
see Black from the darkest to the lightest. We still Black"
74.
"Thank you for this video Ti. I never knew such an
organization ever existed. I know colorism is asinine, but this group of black
folk really took it to another level. Everything you told us about the "
blue vein" was terrible, but the story about them threatening the dark
skin man's life because he was with a light skin woman was the worse one for
me."
**
75. Brandon Page
"Thanks Ti, for once again, digging up little known black
history facts. I definitely have never heard of the blue vein society, &
it's disgusting to know that blacks were doing that to each other, so soon
after slavery ended. Well, I definitely would not pass the brown bag test, lol,
but my father would, as he is part German, & very light skinned. My mother
was a beautiful dark skinned black woman.
**
76. Kathleen King
"Some of those "blue veiners" passed for white and
left the black community entirely"
**
77. SJanez91
"Thanks for this information Ti! I've heard of the Blue Vein
Society before. Stedman Graham, Oprah's man and Maria Cole, Nat King Cole's
wife families were allegedly were part of that society. I remember Natalie
Cole's autobiography, Maria and her family were something else. They did not
want her marrying Nat because he was DS, they didn't care that he was wealthy
and famous either. Maria's first husband was an Tuskegee airmen named Neal
Spurgeon Ellington who died two years after they got married was LS so they
looked at Nat as an downgrade for Maria."
**
78. Supremmo
"There were two books some years back that
covered this topic. One was the Color Complex and the other was Our Kinda
People by the late Lawrence Otis Graham. Check those two books out when you
have a chance."
**
79. can i kickit
"Thank you so much for making this video Ti...sometimes when
I try to talk to people about colorism.... they try to sweep it under the rug,
act like it's something new or act like it doesn't exist at all...I keep
telling people colorism has been around in our community and even more intimately in our own families..we need
to first acknowledge it, then learn more about it and lastly have healthy
discussions so as not to repeat the destructive behaviors...self reflection can
be hard but it is sooo necessary for change....this was an awesome video well
done👏👏"
80.
"News flash: some people still think in this manner. This
isn't a problem of the past although it tends to manifest in different ways
now... And it isn't restricted to the U.S., sadly..."
**
81. Valley girl
"I just found your channel. I grew up in this
population. My mother was in all the social clubs that upheld this mindset till
the early 70's when the Civil Rights movement finally penetrated these groups.
My family and I were the darkest in those groups for years. we squeaked through
because we are the color of the paper bag and my father had a DR., to his name.
I also think because we are a West Indian family on both sides. I remember my
HS boyfriend and his family passed and his mother couldn't stand me because I
didn't pass. My grandfather passed and when he took my mom to Barbados to see
family for the first time when she was 5, her aunts couldn't understand why my
mother was so black. My mom was lighter than a paper bag and never forgot that
or the feeling of being unwanted.. Don't get me wrong. I loved my childhood. I
always felt like a stranger in a strange land."
**
82. A.D. Owens
"My wife’s grandmother told me about the
paper bag and blue vein parties in NYC. She was fairly light too, but she
didn’t get in the parties."
**
83. Tzuriah
"I had never heard of the paper bag test
or the blue veined society. They make my heart hurt."
**
84. Kaleah Collins
"My aunt would scrub my skin with Ajax
when I bathed . I got darker as I got older. But I was at least the color of
the brown paper bag as a little girl my veins still show through my red tinted
skin She would tell me about the test and that I would pass still because my
hair wasn't nappy and though I was brown skin I was Carmelo tone with red tint
. I didn't have such features many would say no your not really black you dnt
look Real black you dnt have black features or hair 🤔. My 2x great grandmother who was native by
birth but looked white she raised all 14 of her children as black . She passed
as mulatto instead of Indian just so she didn't have to send her future
children to the forced residential schools . She raised her children My great
grandmother and all her siblings no matter the color as black . My own
daughters could be considered as white in some ways. My eldest is lighter then
my youngest but they are both very much racial ambiguous. I show them and tell them these stories as
well as stories the stories of how light skinned almost white children was
still slaves and woman was used as whores for the rich elite."
-snip-
"Ajax" is a brand name for a household cleaning product that is not meant to be used on people's skin.
**
85. You'll Like It Too
"Self hatred is as old as time itself.
Blue Vein is new to me. Thanks for sharing!! Now, Jack and Jill are groups such
as this are what I've heard of."
**
86. Terrilyn Woodfin
"Unfortunately, I now understand why my
mother and I were ostracized in darker skinned black communities. I still have
remnants of trauma possibly because of this."
**
87. elvmat1
"Thanks for the interesting video! I have
certainly heard of the Blue vein society, paper bag test etc-I am from NC.
Also, Washington DC was a particularly bad place for that cause they controlled
the public schools and had some power. Most of these people had some social
pull only. The nickname for many of the Light skinned DC folks was "the
Pinks". Whole towns in NC had
mostly light Black people like the notorious Ashoskie. The tyranny of the Blue
vein society was ended by the rise of HBCU's educating Black people of all
complexions and with the better paying jobs and education for darker Blacks,
many a Blue vein woman married a dark skinned professional man! A lot of that
went out the window if it was a wealthy
doctor who was Dark versus a Blue vein who was just a Barber-same fools messing
around about the dumb paper bag would move heaven and earth to get Light Mary
to marry that doctor,lol! BTW, a lot of Blue vein jobs were actually service
jobs around Whites like chefs, Barbers and seamstresses etc. When real
educations and careers began to arise, many dark people outcompeted the Blue
veins at HBCUS and elsewhere , and that caused way more mixing and less color
segregation among Blacks. Colorism did not die of course but that organized
Blue Vein stuff did. Plus some of the most active and helpful people in Civil
rights were these almost white folks who helped go where darker folks could not
go. A good book about the efforts of these folks to get rights for the whole
race is "Light Bright and Damn near white" which Lena Horne's
daughter complied. Its a great book!"
**
88. Dieezah Translator-Songwriter
"The same way of thinking and acting
often occured in the Caribbean colonies and mulattos would marry mulattos or
quadroons. My great grandmother broke that streak when she fell under the spell
of the dark-skinned black man who would become her spouse and the father of her
12 children. She fell for his educated mastery of French as he was making a
public speech. He was one of the first black school teacher on the island after
slavery was abolished... (Abolition here happened in 1848)"
**
89. Ronda my music
"My first job I worked at a school that
taught business , auto and cosmetology. The president was a very light skin
woman with what some refer good hair. Once a month her society group (in the
1970's) would have their meeting in her conference room. Every woman was very
light and a few could pass for white. I asked the other secretary who was very
dark . Why are all of them light in this group. She just smile and wink as long
as you can pass the paper bag test you can join. Never heard that before so
when I went home I compare myself to a paper bag . (I know it was stupid,)
Never paid attention to the color of bags . Just felt strange . Even though I
was lighter than the bag. I felt I wouldn't want to be in there group. It just
didn't feel right and it wasn't right."
**
90. Catherine English
"There's a whole community in Camden Co
NJ where all the folks are fair and had to marry fair skinned mates . My sister
in law and her urban are a couple married in
this fashion . My sister in law
was also the first black home coming
queen in Pennsauken NJ ."
**
91. Beth5171
"OOOOOOOOoooohhhh speak on it Sis!!!!!
❤❤❤❤💯💯Time to put some TRUTH on the subject...hello black
Sororites and Fraternities!!😏💋"
**
Reply
92. sherritay
"Oooo that's so true my mother is very lite skined went to college
a certain sorority who she remain nameless invited her to pledge they didn't
look at a grade she had my mama could have been as dumb as a post but as long
as that skin didn't get darker she was ok to pledge there sorrority my mother
was very offended and pledged another sorrority"
**
Reply
93. Beth5171
"@sherritay
Wow!! How disgusting! And while you are ever gracious and polite in
saying they shall remain nameless, I'm not as gracious 😂😂❤
Definitely sounds like an AKA move 😏
🐷&🐸 Pink and Green 😊"
**
Reply
94. sherritay
"@Beth5171
now see I wasn't naming any names lol but my mom did go on to pledge DST"
-snip-
"DST" =Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
**
95.Kelly Variste
"Bravo!👏👏👏 I enjoyed watching this video I grew
up in New Orleans in the 1980's and 90's and I can attest from firsthand
experience the intra-racial division and the blatant colorism. New Orleans
society is a three tier racial class system black, white and creole nothing
in-between well at least prior to Hurricane Katrina. Now this where it gets
complicated you had dark-skinned creoles who looked like Tatiana Ali or Philip
Michael Thomas who were just as elitist as the light-skinned ones because they
were the product of elitist freed dark-skinned blacks who were social climbers
and intermarried into these light-skinned black families. So consequently these
folks became the black elite so unfortunately to this day those elite black
families are the New Orleans's black bourgeoisie that are involved in every
level of local politics and the business class. These people are so siddity
tell it ain't even funny the ultimate sell-outs. So this video really brought
me back home for sure."
**
96. Cindy
"Colorism goes both ways! I am
multiracial. Just like my Scandinavian mother, I was born with blonde hair and
blue eyes and yep, you can see my blue veins! Growing up in a predominantly
black neighborhood was hell for me, as I heard
things like how "I thought I was cute" "Zebra",
"Halfbreed" and even more vicious, hateful comments on a daily basis.
I grew up with dark skinned girls I barely knew, wanting to fight me just
because of how I looked. Funny when
racism is the topic, that flip side I experienced, is rarely mentioned. I would
have joined the Blue Veined Club in a minute! At least I would have been
accepted!"
**
97. 17thNO
"Same here born in New Orleans in the
late 70s and raised in the 80s and 90s. It was wild how that color thing was.
But...then when darker brothers were becoming the street dudes/dope boys that
was runnin thangs and would do anything to get a "fiya red girl" and
would give up all their bread to get them, the red girls started flocking to
them. Also some of the darker girls would do anything to have lightskinned
"cute/pretty" babies. So things changed."
-snip-
"Red girls" = probably refers to "redbones", an informal, usually considered non derogatory term that refers to particular shades of light brown, particularly with red tinges
**
Reply
98. Kelly Variste
" @17thNO
Ah yes! You described it perfectly. That color thing was just as bad as
the race thing not just color but hair texture and facial features. All of
those traits or characteristics was directly associated with your class and
familial status. Classism in New Orleans is so multi-layered it's not enough
space to explain it all.😂😂😂"
**
Reply
99. 17thNO
"@Kelly Variste
Real we all felt it. Family, school, jobs, dating. It was crazy."
**
Reply
100. Lechiffresix six
"@Kelly Variste
its like we can never a break from racism frankly. this one L we need to
hold it even though colorism is a mutation of white supremacy but as conscious
folk we need to kill it off.
when black americans founded Liberia, Africa .
they installed colorism , and a very rigid form of it down there . and because
bad habits can never be erradicated."
**
101. Denise Muhammad
"We Got A Lot Of Work To Do. I'm Thankful
For Sisters Like Freddie Washington, Lena Horne And Brother Adam Clayton Powell
Who Didn't Suvscribe To This Foolishness. They Hated Their Own, Hated
Themselves, And Was Dealing With No Reality That Caucasian Race Rejected Them
Also.. Its Sad, But We Are Still Experiencing This Sick Mindset, The Social
Structure Of Amerika Has Assist This Type Of Thinking To Develope into A System. We Must Straighten
This Out, We Are Not Going Anywhere Without Each Other."
**
102. DJDowe
"There were sororities, Jack and Jill and
debutante balls only for light skinned people. My father went to Hampton
because he was too dark for Howard in his day."
**
103. Livi JoJo152
"They still have these clubs and
sororities but the colorism is gone thankfully. Definitely in Jack and Jill and
the soros. The old women's clubs are still kind of like this sadly. I think
it's ending though. The Boomers are in charge of those more now. I think it was
their parents who were just really holding onto all that, who got it from their
parents, who were essentially coming from WEB Dubois and his lot. The Boomers
grew up with the whole black pride movement and were going against their
parents even though they had to be in the deb balls/cotillions still. My mom
and aunts were involved in all that stuff but they were also sneaking out and
protesting for the movement. They cared much more about the latter, but grew up
and joined the clubs. Change happened. I do think this is still a horrible
issue in our community that needs to be addressed, but this is the case from
what I've observed being a child of this world."
**
104. Christophiel
"Hate to tell you this but I got a LOT of
hatred growing up from my darker skinned people.... I had to learn the hard way
that I was hated for my skin color to the point where my life was in danger, my
self esteem destroyed, and I had business trying to hang around people who made
me and my family miserable. Truth is
darker skinned people in general hate light skinned people except for light
skinned women who are coveted by dark skinned men."
**
Reply
105. Janita Poe, Ph.D.
"No one wants to discuss this side of the
issue, Christophiel. Our community is lock step with the narrative that
light-skinned blacks think they are better when the truth is we ALL have issues
around all these colors were were born into."
**
Reply
106. Christophiel
"@Janita Poe, Ph.D. Persecution, chased thru the halls at school,
spit upon, social outcast.... Even the teachers got in on the 'fun'. Not wanting to be around those who despise me
does not equate to me thinking I'm better than them. I was better treated by my white and Latin
friends than I ever was by my so called brothers and sisters..."
**
107. Memewalker B
"I grew up in an ethnic enclave where
Blacks of varying hues lived and interacted. In my own family, three of my
uncles were involved in The Nation of Islam. Two of these were light completed
with straight hair and one darker completed with nappy hair. Many of the
activists that identified completely with the Black community had lighter skin.
Adam Clayton Powell was far more militant than Martin Luther King and even
referred to Dr. King as an Uncle Tom. Malcolm X himself was of mixed racial
ancestry. I am fair and my brother is dark and we share the same ancestry. I
personally abhor the reverse colorism of late where Zoe Saldana seen as Nina
Simone in your presentation was pilloried for her. It does seem OK to not have
a lighter-skinned Black actor portray Thurgood Marshall. Get over yourself as
Black women of all hue are being celebrated in fashion and film these days.
they are ALL beautiful. This is from a seventy-year-old grandma before you
decide to be disrespectful."
**
Reply
108. AE3007
"With all due respect, “respect” is
earned, not automatic. Phrases like “get over yourself “ are highly dismissive
of the collective experience of most dark skin peoples. And Zoe apparently
realized albeit late what she chose to do was simply put, wrong, and attempted
an apology, of sorts."
**
109. Baheeja Williams
"My grandfather was Blue vein passed for
White during the Depression
But he was Cree Native American changed
the name to be accepted as an African American they had more rights
They were cotillion folks but my Mum was dark and could not attend."
**
110. Rebecca Augustine
"As my grand-dad once opined, "You
haven't seen prejudice until you've seen it among [blacks] of differing skin
tones!" (Back in the 1950s, polite Caucasians said "Negroes" at
the time.)"
**
111. tafi mutekwe
"Caste system in the black community."
**
112.Abena Williams
"The writer is referring to the darker
skinned blacks as full blooded Ethiopians. Around that time “Ethiopian” was
used almost synonymously with “African” "
**
113. originalprinceeq
"Now it's the exact opposite. Have you
been to Atlanta? Dark skin gets together to specifically hate on light skin ...
it's never ending ..."
**
114. Aiai Monkey
"Colorism is in itself rooted in racism
and plantation practices of the old south. Many "light skinned"
blacks, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries were mixed race
with a white father or grandfather. The politics are mind numbing"
**
115. Beverly Hintzen
"Colorism was one of the issues in the
Rawanda genocide in 1994. Colorism is not only an African American problem."
-snip-
"Rawanda" is a typo for the name of the East African nation of Rwanda.
**
116. victor vazquez
"White America also try to do similar
thing a century ago in Puerto Rico. During WW1 they separated Puerto Ricans bye
color. They also attempted to do a population census bye color in P.R. in the
early 1900s. They introduce as a mandate sterilization to woman garment workers
in the late 50s to early 60s and made it a priority for dark skin Puerto Rican woman. We didnt fall for the
Yankee trap. We are not a color we are Puerto Ricans."
**
117. Juan Jones
"If only you knew that still goes on
today as quite as it's kept. Back in the day we would call them passe pour
blanc or short pass'er blanc, oh and they'd get mad, because they knew we knew
they were black. Till this day you could lose your life trying to marry a light
skin person in Louisiana and you darker than a paper bag, or they will shun
you. frfr."
**
118. Tee Willi
"First I'd ever heard of the Blue Vein
society. But I had heard "light, bright, darn near white"
black folks referred by the old folks as blue bloods. Colorism is truly a sick,
sick, SICK mental disorder. Please do the video on pre-slavery colorism, as
well as one on the effects of colonial emperialism throughout the diaspora
(including Africa) as it relates to colorism."
**
119. Gordon Franklin Terry, Sr. M.Ed.
"My grandma would pass the paperbag test
and help her darker sisters into her clubs. The links"
**
120. The Al Show
"Notes on the video:
1) Biracial and mixed race people prior
to the Civil War had their own communities and organizations in places like
Charleston, SC and New Orleans, LA. This changed with the Plessy V Ferguson
SCOTUS decision. Likely the founding of BVS came as part of the effort to
retain mixed race organizations but within black communities because of changes
in the law and encroaching segregation.
2)
The Arizona Republican item shows you how blunt , matter of fact and in
your face race and racial matters could be decades ago. The fact it called for members of "European blood" tells you all you need to know in that
aspect.
3) I never knew much of anything about
the Blue Vein Society but that last item makes one think they tried to
intimidate others. Quite disturbing
4) Im.biracial and its interesting how
some of the mixed race people in these photos look."
-snip-
Plessy was a light skin Creole of Color.
**
121. Aimee-Lynn Donovan
"Yes my grandmother passed for white for
employment , but never shunned brown or black. My grandfather was very dark."
**
122. Sarah Bewley
"I guess the Morial family of Louisiana
were "Blue Veins", I have family members in my family that are blue
veins from the State of Tennessee, yet my father is a tan brown and my Mom is a
"Blue Vein"."
**
123. SagesseNoir
"I wonder how these blue veins would
react to family like mine: Dark skin dad,
light mother (some called her red
bone), with light daughter and dark son. And a lot of my family from the
Carolinas are like this...some as light as Halle or Barack, some as dark as
Michelle Obama or Denzel."
**
124. LoveWorkProject
"I knew about this light, bright, damn
near white hierarchy, but I didn't know about the death threats, the
blocking of employment, etc. It's
interesting however that they would label as "superior" their own
oppressors; which, as we know, is a sign of serious self-hatred. But thanks a bunch for this. I'd like to see more of these
"extra" pieces of history that remain obscure, especially since you
do such a marvelous job of integrating the still-life pictures which underscore
the point you are making. Thanks
again. Much love"
**
125. Brown Bagz
"Yes I was in subjected to the paper and test when I tried to join Jack
& Jill"
**
126. Ken_yatta
"In Guyana it’s the Indians and lighter skinned individuals
that get those jobs. You forgot to mention the light and mixed woman who always
win the beauty pageants."
**
127. Lawrence Phelps
"Never heard of the brown bag test or the Blue Vein Society
but here in Maryland there was a close knit group called Proctors who were
similar to Blue Vein. Light skinned and
intermarried. When I got my first interview for the US Government, the Manager was a very nice woman who was
light skinned. She hired me. A few of the blacks called her an Oreo that
startled me."
**
128.
"I’m glad you published this. It’s time we tackle this in our
OWN community because this is a situation that was bought about by US. To
whites we all were inferior, that’s why they bought the 1 drop rule out. They
didn’t care about how white you looked. So, we as a people perpetualed this sin among ourselves, so it’s time we
address it. Even our entertainers and
sports figures are highly involved when you hear them always talking
about their preferences. Where did this can of self hate come from? No, not the
white man, it started in our own bullying and inferiority complexes right in
our OWN neighborhoods and in the distinctions made in our own families. We are
a beautiful people made up of so many color spectrums of dark browns to yellow
tones. Let’s love and honor that and stop the divisions among us so that we can
elevate as a people."
**
129.Keyna McQueen
"Blue veins means you can see their veins through their
skin..simple and dumb but true"
130.
"Growing up in the UK as a dark skinned black woman of West Indian
parentage, I can assure you, dark skin 'colorism' is alive and well. I believe
I experienced more of this from my black kin-folk than the white man."
****
2023
131. Abraham Isaac Mucius III
"So is preferring dark skin a form of colorism?
There are still some families in the D.C. area and of course New Orleans that
actively work to maintain their light complexion. Children are told not to
marry anyone with brown or dark brown skin. Colorism is definitely still a
problem."
**
132. Hannah landfair
"When I used to live in Alabama, the kids used to pick with me because I am lightskin I wanted to be dark skinned so bad."
**
133. Tiffany Baldwin80
"Thank you for this history I always
thought the brown paper bag test came from somebody white I feel away that our
own people did this and it created this division which is still going on today
I am a dark woman with a light-skinned daughter who definitely pass the brown
paper bag test"
****
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