Comments From A 2016 Online Discussion By Freemasons About Prince Hall Shriners Doing The Camel Walk (Also Known As "Riding")

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post presents selected comments from a six page 2016 Freemason discussion thread entitled "Representing The Craft": Do you think that representing the craft as if it were a college fraternity has a positive or negative impact? 

This pancocojams compilation of those comments focuses on comments that refer to the Prince Hall Shriners' dance/strutting custom referred to as "riding".  A video of "riding" is included in one of the comments that is quoted from that discussion.

The Addendum to this post showcases three additional YouTube videos of Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Shriners doing their versions of the  Camel Walk that they refer to as  "riding". 

The content of this post is presented for historical and cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post. Thanks to all those who are featured in the YouTube videos that are embedded in this post and thanks to the publishers of these videos on YouTube.
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2024/02/general-information-about-prince-hall.html for the closely related post entitled "General Information About Prince Hall Masons & Prince Hall Shriners (2024 Update)."

Also, click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/09/prince-hall-shriners-tradition-of.html for a 2017 pancocojams post with someYouTube videos and comments about Prince Hall Shriners "riding" (performing their processional strutting version of the Camel Walk dance.

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
The 2016 discussion thread that is excerpted in this pancocojams post includes a survey that has the following results:

Do you think that representing the craft as if it were a college fraternity has a positive or negative impact? 

Negative impact -          24 votes     82.8%
Positive Impact -             4 votes     12.8%
Doesn't really matter-      2 votes      6.9%
I don't really care             1 vote       3.4 %

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DISCLAIMER
i have never been a member of the female organizations that are affiliated with Freemasons or Shriners.

I've added some explanatory notes under some of these comments.

Additions and corrections are welcome.

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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS DISCUSSION THREAD
The numbers in this compilation are the numbers these comments have in that online discussion. 

I've used italic font for the quotes that are part of these comments.

https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/representing-the-craft.26835/

lilhut3579

Mar 27, 2016

#1

"Lately I've been seeing an increase in younger Masons representing the fraternity in a college fraternity like manner. Mainly PHA Masons. I wonder why? Not saying its a bad thing. I myself had a pretty "shiny" jacket made. Its the older brothers who seem to have more a problem with it. I want to know thoughts on this from not only PH brothers but Mainstream brothers as well.

p.s.

 

I'm 24 any brother out there younger than me?"

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Derinique Kendrick

Mar 28, 2016

#9

"If paraphernalia is what we are talking about in terms of representing the organization then it isn't a big deal in my eyes. I agree that alot of the older brothers have a lot of critique when it comes to younger brothers wearing paraphernalia. I think it becomes a problem if said brother(s) decide he or they want to throw a college party. The difference is, those fraternities are social groups whereas Masonry is not a social group but every now and then you come across ones who treat it as such and that is where the issue comes in. Am I right, @Travelling Man91?"

** 

mrpierce17

Mar 29, 2016

#17

"lilhut3579 said:

Lately I've been seeing an increase in younger Masons representing the fraternity in a college fraternity like manner. Mainly PHA Masons. I wonder why? Not saying its a bad thing. I myself had a pretty "shiny" jacket made. Its the older brothers who seem to have more a problem with it. I want to know thoughts on this from not only PH brothers but Mainstream brothers as well.

p.s.

I'm 24 any brother out there younger than me?

Can you expand on what you mean when you say representing the fraternity like a college frat we are upright moral men and any Mason should carry himself as such"

** 

acjohnson53

Mar 29, 2016

#18

"ahhh we don't stomp the yard...But we can do the camel walk.....LOL"

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https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/representing-the-craft.26835/page-2

Ripcord22A

Mar 31, 2016

#23

"lilhut3579 said:

So I mean the regalia mostly and there has been a hand sign. i assume its making a square but basically making a square with the index finger and thumb.

Our regalia is nothing like that of a GREEK frat. they wear hoodies and what not with their letters on em. As for hand signs of its not the DG and PS of a degree, the GHSD or the grips then it is not masonic"

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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Mar 31, 2016

#25

"There are some similarities between PHA and the Divine 9 fraternities. Most of the Divine 9 fraternities founders were PHA at some point in time. They both use lines to initiate candidates (well not sure if all PHA do). They are similarities in the ritual as well. Their rituals used ours as a blueprint or pattern. I belong to a Divine 9 fraternity. Divine 9 fraternities are historically Black ones in case you were wondering. I am not saying that PHA is like a college frat, I am saying there are similarities."
-snip-
"Divine Nine" is the informal name for the National Pan-Hellenic Council. That Council consists of five historically Black Greek letter fraternities and four historically Black Greek letter sororities. Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Pan-Hellenic_Council for more information about the Divine Nine. 

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The Traveling Man

Mar 31, 2016

#31

"I don't think jackets, hats, etc are symbolic of a college frat. It's no different than someone in the union to wear a union shirt or jacket, or an employee to wear something bearing the name or logo of his job. I don't have a jacket yet, but I have Masonic shirts, earrings, rings, bracelets, pins and car decals. I'm proud to be a Mason so I show it. But it isn't so much for the public to see as it is for other Brothers to notice it. Where I'm at I see it more with the older members. They have the jackets, the license plates, multiple pins, etc. I see it more with Brothers from my Grand Lodge than with the PHA Brothers, but I suspect it's probably about even. I'm 33 and the members in my Lodge that are younger than me I haven't seen with Any of those items yet."

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Dontrell Stroman

Apr 1, 2016

#35

"I will say that some lodges near college universities govern themselves in a way that a college fraternity does. They pledge, party, "Step" and design their jackets in a way college frats do. I would not venture out to say this is a PHA thing. I know many clandestine AF&AM have lodges set up all over the big cities in TN. A lot of times brothers see guys acting and dressing this way, and automatically assume it's a PHA thing. I don't think it's a unrealistic assumption due to the fact how would you know PHA from clandestine mason without asking or seeing a charter. They use the same symbols as all regular masons."
-snip-
Read a comment in the pancocojams comment section below about the meaning of "clandestine Masonic lodges".

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Dontrell Stroman

Apr 1, 2016

#36

"Without a doubt I believe it's younger masons. In my own experiences, I've yet to see a older mason acting that way. That's not to say their aren't some out."

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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Apr 1, 2016

#37

"Travelling Man91 said:

Without a doubt I believe it's younger masons. In my own experiences, I've yet to see a older mason acting that way. That's not to say their aren't some out here.

There are many PHA Shriners videos on youtube doing the camel walk. I assume you have to be a PHA mason to be a PHA Shriner. Kinda like stepping.

PHA Shriners Bringing In The New Year

BTNKD1, Feb 12, 2008  #209

How Nasty Does a Noble have to be? I appreciate all of the views that this video is getting. "Ride Clyde"

Fayum Temple #209 Manhattan Kansas.
-snip-
music -  George Clinton - Atomic Dog
"PHA" = Prince Hall Affiliated" Shriners
"Nobles" is a referent to PHA Shriners; "Nasty Nobles" is a complimentary referent to how well PHA Shriners do their "riding"(strutting walk).  "Ride Clyde"is a rhyming term that PHA Shriners use to refer to "riding".  

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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Apr 1, 2016

#39

"Travelling Man91 said:

I don't know much about the Shriner's due to the fact that I am not one, but I am aware that PHA Shriner's do the "Camel walk". My objection is, Shriner's and Freemasons are two different and separate organizations. That might be the custom and tradition for PHA Shriner's to do the camel walk, but it's not for PHA freemasonry.

So those are not PHA masons? I never said it was the custom. You said you never saw older brothers act that way. There were definitely some older brothers in that video."

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Dontrell Stroman

Apr 1, 2016

#40

"Yes they are masons, but they are not acting under freemasonry when it comes to dancing. They are doing something their appendent body come up with. I still haven't seen older freemasons, meaning just blue Lodge brothers dancing and acting like a College frat. But it's not a Masonic offense to dance anyways. I saw Shriner's doing a dance for their organization, but I've yet to see PHA masons representing the blue lodge dance in that kind of way."
-snip-
blue lodge= a referent for "mainstream" freemasons (not PHA Masons

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https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/representing-the-craft.26835/page-3

Bloke

Apr 1, 2016

#41

"I dont think the camel dance would fly at our Shrine Club, but each to his own..."

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MBC

Apr 2, 2016

#50

"MRichard said:

There are many PHA Shriners videos on youtube doing the camel walk. I assume you have to be a PHA mason to be a PHA Shriner. Kinda like stepping.

I just find it quite ridiculous that they do this "walk" with our fezzes. I think wearing our fezzes to do this somehow may damage the image of Shriners...

I am fine of any people doing anything but they were wearing a fez and got filmed... I don't know how the public says when they watch this(?)

P.S. Sorry for my old school conservative British view."

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Glen Cook
G. A. Cook

Apr 2, 2016

#52

"MBC said:

Oh no... Smh...

I just find it quite ridiculous that they do this "walk" with our fezzes. I think wearing our fezzes to do this somehow may damage the image of Shriners...

I am fine of any people doing anything but they were wearing a fez and got filmed... I don't know how the public says when they watch this(?)

P.S. Sorry for my old school conservative British view.

Recognising we are speaking of both Egyptian (PHA) and International Shrine, Shrine has Clowns, Oriental Bands, funny little cars...I assure you, this is relatively modest behaviour and really not offensive in the Shrine context. Placing an "old school British view" on Shrine probably is not the better approach. Now, the video of Masons at a funeral is a different matter.

FYI, I was a member of the European Shrine Club, have performed a ceremonial in London, and take some credit for the UK still being under Aahmes Shrine and not Emirat."

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https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/representing-the-craft.26835/page-4

Glen Cook

Apr 3, 2016

#62

"Travelling Man91 said:

Haven't seen the video. Okay let's say you did find a video of PHA masons dancing, so what. Just because one Lodge does it doesn't make it a custom for PHA masonry as a whole. There is a video online of a member of the Shriner international speaking on Lucifer and it caused controversy. Does his statement alone speak for all Shriner's ?

Apologies. Didn't mean to imply it was PHA lodge which many have seen doing a camel walk. I meant to indicate I didn't like it, as compared to the camel walk for Shriners of any fez, which doesn't bother me."

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Dontrell Stroman

Apr 3, 2016

#63

Glen Cook said:

Apologies. Didn't mean to imply it was PHA lodge which many have seen doing a camel walk. I meant to indicate I didn't like it, as compared to the camel walk for Shriners of any fez, which doesn't bother me.

No need for apologies brother cook. I understand what all the brothers are saying regarding dancing and acting like college fraternities. I'm just stating that yes PHA Shriner's do the "Camel Walk" and just because one or two PHA blue lodges do some kind of dance at a ceremony does not speak for PHA masonry as a whole. I have never saw it in person. I can only speak from my personal experiences. When I was a member of the ELKS lodge, they danced at certain ceremonies. I don't know why, but they did."
-snip-
The Elks is another secret fraternal order.

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MBC

Apr 8, 2016

#65

"Well It is just my opinion to think that "walk" is quite weird and pointed out some potential concerns as Freemasonry in general.

Outsiders won't care you Shriners, Craft, Royal Arch or even fake masons, they just know that these people are (free)masons.

And I am sure some of my closer brethren would have a similar view on it.

I am not putting my rulers up to measure everyone, just expressing my views.

If you get offended, then I am sorry about my poor English as it is not my mother language"

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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Apr 8, 2016

"MBC said:

Well It is just my opinion to think that "walk" is quite weird and pointed out some potential concerns as Freemasonry in general.

Outsiders won't care you Shriners, Craft, Royal Arch or even fake masons, they just know that these people are (free)masons.

And I am sure some of my closer brethren would have a similar view on it.

I am not putting my rulers up to measure everyone, just expressing my views.

If you get offended, then I am sorry about my poor English as it is not my mother language.

The people at those events probably love it. That type of dancing is a part of their culture. I am sure that some people don't like certain things of your culture regardless of what it is. They are Shriners and Shriners are known for having fun.

You don't have to like it. There are things in freemasonry that I don't like either. It is what it is"

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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Apr 8, 2016

#68

"MBC said:

I am not forcing people to not like it with me. Apart from that I am also a Shriner, I like to have fun as well.

However I may have a British old school mind like a brother said before.

I am a Shriner as well. Don't see a problem with it."

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Glen Cook

G A Cook

Apr 8, 2016

#70

"Travelling Man91 said:

Question : does Shriner international members dance at any functions ?

 

Umm, define dance?"

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G A Cook

Apr 8, 2016

#72

"Travelling Man91 said:

Move rhythmically to music, typically following a set sequence of steps. Lol okay my own definition, I guess similar to what the PHA shiners did in the video

I've never seen Shriners International members do a camel walk or the like, though I've not been to every temple."

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Dontrell Stroman

Apr 8, 2016

#73

"Glen Cook said:

I've never seen Shriners International members do a camel walk or the like, though I've not been to every temple.

Bro cook, I could see you doing the camel walk ha ha jk"

 
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Dontrell Stroman

Apr 8, 2016

#74

"All jokes aside, I wonder if this is part of their ritual or just "fun time" for them"

 
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The Traveling Man

Apr 8, 2016

#76

"The Camel Walk has been used by PHA Shriners for a long time. They call it Riding, as in "Riding through the desert". I think the song they usually ride to is called "White Horse". Some Clandestine black Lodges also do the camel walk. The walk itself has been around for probably 100 years, and the version that the Shriners use has been around for over 50 years. James Brown used to do the camel walk."

 
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mrpierce17

Apr 29, 2016

#77

"[QUOTE="The Traveling Man, post: Some Clandestine black Lodges also do the camel walk. [/QUOTE]

Im confused on by what you mean when you say clandestine black lodges because from my understanding any man regardless of race can join any lodge if he is voted on favorably by the brethren that would include GL of state PHA even clandestine lodges I am a Prince Hall mason and I have sat in tiled lodge with many white brothers who where also Prince hall Mason further more I don't see how having a little fun doing a dance is giving away any secrets or violating ones MM oath and obligation"

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mrpierce17

Apr 29, 2016

#78

"Not trying to single anyone out but I think it is a low blow for anyone to single a lodge out by one particular race a lodge can be predominantly composed of one particular race but open to all who wish to join"

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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Apr 29, 2016

#79

"mrpierce17 said:

Im confused on by what you mean when you say clandestine black lodges because from my understanding any man regardless of race can join any lodge if he is voted on favorably by the brethren that would include GL of state PHA even clandestine lodges I am a Prince Hall mason and I have sat in tiled lodge with many white brothers who where also Prince hall Mason further more I don't see how having a little fun doing a dance is giving away any secrets or violating ones MM oath and obligation

PHA is regular regardless if the state grand lodge considers them clandestine in the states where the PHA grand lodge is not recognized. Each grand lodge is sovereign. In some areas like Texas & New York, there are a lot of so called 4 letter clandestine lodges so much so that they greatly outnumber the PHA lodges."

** 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard

Apr 29, 2016

#80

"mrpierce17 said:

Not trying to single anyone out but I think it is a low blow for anyone to single a lodge out by one particular race a lodge can be predominantly composed of one particular race but open to all who wish to join

Actually it isn't. And it is a big issue for the PHA grand lodges in certain states. I have no idea what criteria a clandestine lodge uses to recruit members."

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https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/representing-the-craft.26835/page-5

The Traveling Man
Apr 29, 2016

#92

"mrpierce17 said:

[QUOTE="The Traveling Man, post: Some Clandestine black Lodges also do the camel walk.

Im confused on by what you mean when you say clandestine black lodges because from my understanding any man regardless of race can join any lodge if he is voted on favorably by the brethren that would include GL of state PHA even clandestine lodges I am a Prince Hall mason and I have sat in tiled lodge with many white brothers who where also Prince hall Mason further more I don't see how having a little fun doing a dance is giving away any secrets or violating ones MM oath and obligation[/QUOTE]

Brother, you read too deep into my message. First, in case you haven't saw my pics, I'm black, so I wasn't playing the race card. I stated that the Clandestine black lodges do it to because the average person who may see a group of black Brothers doing the walk on YouTube would probably assume that they are PHA. So I was simply stating that the Clandestine black lodges (as in IFAAM, PHO, etc) do it too (because of the videos on YouTube are in fact Not PHA). If this was a PHA board I would have omitted the "black" reference. But seeing as how most of the Brothers on this board aren't black, me saying Clandestine lodges could have lead them to believe that other Clandestine lodges do it. Clandestine could mean GOdF, Italy, or any other Clandestine Jurisdictions, but when I say Black Clandestine most Brothers will automatically make the association with IFAAM, PHO, JGJ, etc.... Since the camel walk, as far as I know, is not done by any of the mainstream Brothers, I wanted to be clear on who I was referring to when I stated Clandestine. My bad if you took it the wrong way Brother.... And you're right, any race can join any Jurisdiction. There are definitely white Brothers who belong to Prince Hall Lodges, as well as black Brothers (like myself) who belong to Mainstream Lodges"

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ADDENDUM - THREE ADDITIONAL YOUTUBE VIDEOS  OF PRINCE HALL SHRINERS  DOING THE CAMEL WALK (also known as "riding"; "ride out")

Video #1 -Noble Ride Out @ Savannah State University (Georgia)

Say It Aint So Podcast, Nov 2, 2008
-snip-
music - Laid Back - "White Horse" (remix)

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Video #2 - Nasty Nobles! Bejilah Temple #163 Harvest Ball 2022

Tristan Perkins, Nov 25, 2022

Shriners Camel walking
-snip-
music- Too Short- "Blow The Whistle"

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Videos #3 - Camel 🐫 Walkin 🚶🏾‍♂️at the Gala Day 2023 Cookout Augusta Commons

 

Be Like Water, May 8, 2023  AUGUSTA COMMON [Georgia]

AEAONMS Desert of Georgia Nobles 👳🏾‍♂️👳🏾‍♂️👳🏾‍♂️👳🏾‍♂️👳🏾‍♂️👳🏾‍♂️👳🏾‍♂️ Camel 🐫  Walkin 🚶🏾‍♂️ 📻 🎶 at the Augusta Commons square, in Augusta GA, Saturday, 06 May 2023, 12:00 PM - 4:00 PM.
-snip-
Mystikal -"Here I Go" (Radio Version)
-snip-
The 1983 Danish Pop song "White Horse" by Laid Back* used to be the "go to" record for PHA Shriners' Camel Walk. However, since 2008? YouTube videos document that other records have largely supplanted Laid Back's "White Horse" as the record that is played for PHA Shriners' Camel Walks. Also, YouTube videos post 2007 or thereabouts of PHA Shriners doing that strutting circular dance appear to refer to it as "The Camel Walk" much more often than to "Riding".

*Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_(Laid_Back_song) for a Wikipedia article about the 1983 record "White Horse".by the Danish duo "Laid Back"

That article doesn't mention the fact that that record used to be the PHA Shriner's Camel Walk ("riding") anthem.  

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