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Sunday, June 25, 2023

"Down Down Baby" ("Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop") Rhymes with chronological information from 1973 to 2023

Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post documents a few examples of "Down Down Baby" (also called "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" and similar names) that I have come across from 1973 to 2023.  Each of the examples in this particular pancocojams compilation include the lines "Down down baby/ Down by the rollercoaster". 

These examples are given with chronological information about the date that the contributor remembered chanting them, the date that the example was collected by me or by someone else, or the date that that  example was published online or in a book..

The content of this post is presented for folkloric and cultural purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those whose examples of this rhyme are featured in this post.

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This pancocojams post doesn't include examples of "Down Down Baby (I Can Do Karate)" which is a contemporary spin off of "Down Down Baby" recreational rhymes.  Examples of those rhymes  that are also known as "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"and "Shimmy Shimmy China" can be found in the cocojams2 blog and in some other posts on this pancocojams blog.

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INFORMATION ABOUT THE RECORD "SHIMMY SHIMMY KO KOP BOP" [released 1960]
from https://www.songfacts.com/facts/little-anthony-the-imperials/shimmy-shimmy-ko-ko-bop [retrieved December 10, 2023]
“This seemingly innocuous song became one of the first great earworms, with the chorus of "Shimmy, shimmy, ko-ko-bop, shimmy, shimmy, bop" burrowing into our brains and refusing to let go.

Like many hits of this era aimed at teenagers, it's about a dance: the "ko-ko-bop." The third verse contains specific instructions:

Left foot forward, right one back
Bring them side by side
Syncopate your last two steps
Now you're gonna glide

The song is about a guy who is entranced by a "native" girl who shows him the dance.

This is based on a song called "(Shimmy Shimmy) Ko Ko Wop," which was released by a Pittsburgh group called the El Capris in 1956. That song was written by group members James Scott, James Ward and Leon Gray; it takes place on an island and has a Polynesian rhythm.

The Little Anthony & the Imperials version is a not-so-subtle rewrite, with just a tweak to the title and a change of setting for the verses. This version is credited as written by Bob Smith.

Various "Shimmy" songs followed: in 1960 "(I Do The) Shimmy Shimmy" by Bobby Freeman went to #37 US; "Shimmy Like Kate" by The Olympics made #42 that same year; and in 1962 James Brown hit #61 with "Shout And Shimmy."

This was the first uptempo hit for Little Anthony & the Imperials, who were known for their ballads "Tears On My Pillow" and "So Much."

Little Anthony did not like this song, and would often disparage it on stage before performing it.”…
-snip-
Two meanings for the word "bop" are "a general term for dancing" and "a particular type of dance." The later definition is probably what that word was supposed to mean in Anthony & The Imperials' hit 1960 R&B song "Shimmy Shimmy Ko Ko Bop". However, the "Ko Ko Bop" didn't become a trend anywhere.

The word "wop" in the title "(Shimmy Shimmy) Ko Ko Wop," by the El Capris also means "dance" or a particular type of dance. As was the case with the "Co Co Bop" dance, the "Ko Ko Wop" also didn't become a dance trend anywhere.

The titles "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop", "Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Puffs" and others for  recreational rhymes that were created after Anthony & The Imperial's hit song "Shimmy Shimmy Ko Ko Bop" were probably the result of folk processing-when people mishear, misremember, or unknowingly replace an unfamiliar word with a familiar word. In this case "bop" (and "wop") replaced the much more familiar words "pop" or "puff".

Click
https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2019/06/a-timeline-of-sorts-with-information.html for the closely related pancocojams post entitled "A Partial Timeline For "Bop" As A Referent For Music (with information & comments)".

Also,click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/05/examples-of-wop-line-dances-and-da-wop.html for a closely related pancocojams post entitled "Time Line Of "Wop" Dances & Examples Of "The Wop" Line Dances."

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
Most of the rhyme examples in this pancocojams post include the words "a biscuit" (with the word "a" pronounced "ah"). "A biscuit" recreational rhymes are documented as being chanted in the 1960s as jump rope rhymes before any examples of "Down Down Baby" ("Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop") rhymes that I have come across.

Here's a portion of an editorial note that I wrote in that cocojams2 post about why so many African American children's recreational rhymes include the "a biscuit" refrain (since at least 1967) :

"It occurs to me that most of these "ah biscuit rhymes" are part of "I have a boyfriend" verses, although those verses are combined with other rhymes as occurs with most children's recreational rhymes. In the beginning of those verses, after stating that she "has a boyfriend", the chanter describes him as being "so sweet". As such, "sweetness" ties into the "a biscuit" refrain, since one way of eating biscuits was with jelly or jam on top. Furthermore, I believe that "a biscuit" is a shortened form of "as a biscuit" or "like a biscuit".
-
snip-
Click http://cocojams2.blogspot.com/2014/11/a-biscuit-phrase-in-playground-rhymes.html "A Biscuit" Phrase In Playground Rhymes (Examples & What It Probably Means)"

and

http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2018/07/ronald-mcdonald-biscuit-other-childrens.html  "
Ronald McDonald A Biscuit" & Other Children's Rhymes That Include The Word "Biscuit" (Information, Comments, & Examples)" for more examples of these rhymes. 

Links to some pancocojams posts that include examples of "Down Down Baby" (Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" rhymes are found in this post or can be found by using this blog's internal search engine or by placing the words "down down baby pancocojams" in Google's search engine.

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SOME EXAMPLES OF THE RHYME "DOWN DOWN BABY(also known as "SHIMMY SHIMMY CO CO POP" and similar words)

Numbers are added to these examples for referencing purposes only. No titles are given for these examples. I've added my brief comments after a few examples in this compilation.

Example #1

Lyrics given in a musical sheet]

The Blacks go
Down down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet baby
I don't want to let you go
Just because I kissed you once
Doesn't mean I love you so

[CHANTED]

Shimmy, shimmy, shimmy, shimmy
Shimmy Shimmy pop!
Shimmy, shimmy, shiimmy, shimmy
Shimmy,shimmy.coke-ca-pop!
-John Langstaff and Carol Langstaff's 1973 book Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!: A  Collection Of City Children's Street Games And Rhymes (Garden City, New York, Doubleday & Co), page 78
-snip-
"The Blacks" is a (socially incorrect) way of saying "the Black people". Another (even more socially incorrect) way of saying that is "the spades".
  
Here's an editorial note that I've slightly revised from my note in the pancocojams post entitled "The REAL Meanings Of "The Spades Go" & "The Space Go" In Playground Rhymes" 
http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html
"I  believe that most children who chant rhymes that begin with the phrase "the spades go" didn't in the past and don't currently attribute any meaning whatsoever to those particular words. Instead, children say those words, if not the entire rhyme, by rote memory and focus more on the rhythm and the performance activity.

That said, it's my position that, early on, when a specific meaning was given to the introductory phrase the "spades go", that phrase meant "(This is the way) Black people say and do [perform] this rhyme. Unlike the idiom "calling a spade a spade" I believe that no pejorative connotations were/are inherently attributed to the words "the spades go" in children's rhymes.

Saying "the spades go" was a way of attributing the words of those rhymes or the way the rhymes were performed to Black people (or more specifically, to Black girls). That attribution lent authenticity to those rhymes and/or to their performance activities. That was because Black girls were (and still are) considered to be the arbiters of "the real way" that those songs or those hand clap rhymes were/are supposed to be sung, or chanted and performed.

This was/is partly because Black girls were/are considered to be the sources of many of these rhymes, or were/are considered to be the "coolest" or "hippest" examples of how those rhymes should be performed. This same dynamic can be found in the use of introductory phrases as "the Black people say" or "the Black people sing" in vaudeville songs. And this same dynamic can be found in past and current attitudes that mainstream American (i.e. White America) had/has about Black people being the "go to" population when it comes to learning how to do popular R&B/Hip Hop dances and talking "cool".

I further believe that the phrase "the spades go" predates the phrase "the space goes"., meaning that "the space goes" is a folk processed form of "the spades go". By "folk processed" I mean that "the space goes" was initially made up because "the spades go" was misheard or mis-remembered." However, in some cases such as in the American movie Big, the introductory words "the space go" may have been used instead of "the spades go" because of the history and potential volatility of the word "spades." 
-snip-
Read my similar comments in this post after the example from the movie 
Big [Example #6].

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Example #2

"Here's a pretty innocuous version. Clapping rhyme, Atlantic City NJ, late 70's:

Down Down Baby, down by the roller coaster
Sweet Sweet Baby, my heart's in love
Ooh, che-chihuahua
Biscuit
I solemnly love her
Biscuit
She is so sweet
Biscuit
Like a cherry treat
Biscuit
Touche Turtle, pull down your girdle
Biscuit
Ruth Archer, April, 10 2007, http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653&messages=29 "Down Down Baby-Race in Kid's Rhymes", 
-snip-
Ruth Archer was a member of Mudcat when I was active on that forum. However,  I didn't know her until she posted that example. I contacted her using that forum's internal private messaging system to share with her that I was also from Atlantic City, New Jersey.but I left that city to go to college in 1965. . I don't remember any "Down Down Baby" rhymes from my childhood or teenage years. However, I remember a version of the closely related rhyme "I Love Coffee, I Love Tea".  Verses from that family of rhymes are sometimes found in versions of "Down Down Baby" ("Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop").

From our brief email exchanges, I learned that "Ruth Archer" is a White American woman.

Ruth Archer shared that example in that particular Mudcat discussion to contrast it with the  other examples of that rhyme which were being shared that mention race.

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Example #3

Ooh shishy wah wah ta biscuit
I've got a boyfriend ta biscuit
He is the sweetest ta biscuit
Ice cream soda with a cherry on top
Ice ream soda with a cherry on bottom
Down down baby, down by the roller coaster
Sweet sweet baby I will never let you go
Just because I kissed you doesn't mean I love you
Ice cream soda with a cherry on top
Ice cream soda with a cherry on bottom
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Down_Baby, Southern New Hampshire version (late 70's), quote retrieved November 2, 2014
-snip-
The current Wikipedia page for "Down Down Baby" doesn't include any examples. Another example of that rhyme that I retrieved on that date doesn't include any chronological information.

Another example that includes chronological information is given as Example #19 below.
Here's the link to that Wikipedia page as of June 25, 2023: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Down_Baby  

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Example #4

Sesame Street: Handclapping Chants

Sesame Street, March 27, 2009

-snip-
Here's a transcription of this early 1980s Sesame Street clip:

"
Down, down baby, down down the roller coaster

Sweet Sweet baby ,I’ll never let you go.

Shimmy shimmy ko-ko pop
Shimmy shimmy pow[or bop!]
Shimmy Shimmy ko-ko pop
Shimmy shimmy pow!

Grandma, grandma sick in bed
Called the doctor and the doctor said

Let’s get the rhythm of the head, ding dong
We got the rhythm of the head, ding dong
Let’s get the rhythm of the hands (clap clap)
We got the rhythm of the hands [clap clap]
Let’s get the rhythm of the feet [stomp stomp]
We got the rhythm of the feet [stomp stomp]
Let’s get the rhythm of the hot-dog [gyration overlaps with “hot dog”]
We got the rhythm of the hot dog [gyration]

You put it all together and what do ya get:
Ding dong [clap clap], [stomp stomp], hot – dog [gyration]
You put it all backwards and what do you get:
Hot -dog [gyration],stomp stomp]. Clap clap],ding dong!
-snip-
These words are presented in sections from "A" to "E "(represented here by the spaces between the verses) by Kyra D. Gaunt in her book The Games Black Girls Play: Learning The Ropes From  Double--Dutch to Hip Hop  (New York, New York University Press, 2006), pages 94, 95

This video shows young African American girls performing a circle hand clap version of "Down Down Baby" ("Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa"). As this pancocojams post documents, these aren't the only words to that rhyme and the circle formation isn't the only way (or even the most common way among African Americans) that this rhyme was and is played.

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Example #5

Down, down baby
Down, down the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet baby
I'll never let you go
Chimey chimey cocoa pop
Chimey, chimey pow
Chimey, chimey cocoa pop
Chimey, chimey pop
I like coffee, I like tea
I like a colored boy and he likes me
So lets here the rhythm of the hands, (clap, clap) 2x
Let hear the rhythm of the feet (stomp, stomp) 2x
Let's hear the rhythm of the head (ding dong) 2x
Let's hear the rhythm of the hot dog
Let's hear the rhythm of the hot dog
Put em all together and what do you get
(Clap clap, stomp stomp), ding dong, hot Dog!
-Yasmin Hernadez; 2004; memories of East Harlem in the 1980s; posted on cocojams.com 
-snip-
"Colored" is a referent for Black Americans which is no longer considered acceptable since at least the 1970s. In the United States the referent "Colored" is considered old fashioned and offensive.

"cocojams.com" is the name of my cultural website that was active from 2001 to 2014. Some content from that multi-page website can be found on pancocojams and on cocojams2.

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Example #6

Tom Hanks Big rap Shimmy Shimmy Cocoa Pop

inspecda, Feb 3, 2011
-snip-
Here is a transcription of this clip from the 1988 American movie Big

"The space goes...

down down baby, down down the roller coaster.
Sweet sweet baby, sweet sweet don't let me go.
shimmy shimmy coco pop, shimmy shimmy rock,
shimmy shimmy coco pop, shimmy shimmy rock
I met a girlfriend- a triscuit,
she said a triscuit-a biscuit,
ice cream soda pop
vanilla on the top
oooo Shalida, walking down the street,
ten times a week
I meant it. I said it.
I stole my mama's credit.
I'm cool. I'm hot.
Sock you in the stomach three more times.
- from 
http://www.ice-cream-freaks.com/ice-cream-song-big.html [retrieved June 23, 2023]
-snip-
There's been considerable debate about whether the Tom Hanks character in the movie Big says "the space goes" or "the spades go". Examples of both versions can be found online. There's also multiple "transcriptions" of the movie Big's version of that rhyme that given the line "Oh Shelly, walking down the street" instead of "Oooh Shalida walking down the street."

My position is that the movie Big's version of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" ("Down Down Baby") is a folk processed form of one or more already existing version/s of that rhyme that the writers of that movie had come across. 

My belief about whether that character says "the space goes" ."the spades go" or "the Space Ghost" in that movie have changed over time (I was in "the spades go " team for a long time. That was largely because of what I thought I heard and also because of my awareness of other American children's recreational rhymes that begin with "the spades go", and particularly my awareness of the 1973 example of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" that begins with "The Blacks go". However, recently I finally was won over to "the space goes" team because I re-listened to that movie clip over and over and over again and was finally convinced that that was what was being said. I never was in the Space Ghost" team. 

Read my comment in http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html about the meaning of the spades in American children's recreational rhymes.

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Example #7

A Version of Down Down Baby in virginia in the 90's

Down down baby, down by the rollercoaster
Sweet sweet baby, mama never let you go
Shimmy shimmy coca pop, shimmy shimmy pow!

I like coffee, I like tea,
I like a color boy and he likes me
So step back white boy, you don't shine
I'll get the color boy to beat yo' behind

Let get the rhythm of the hands (clap, clap)
We've got the rhythm of the hands (clap, clap)

Let's get the rhythm of the feet (stomp,stomp)
We've got the rhythm of the feet (stomp, stomp

Lets get the rhythm of the head DING-DONG

(move head side to side)

We've got the rhythm of the head DING-DONG (move head side to side)

Let's get the rhythm of the HOT-DOG

(move body around)

We've got the of the HOT-DOG

(move body around)

Put all together and and what do you get....
clap, clap, stomp, stomp, ding-dong, hot-dog

Say them all backwards and what do you get....

hot-dog, ding-dong, stomp, stomp, clap, clap!
-GUEST,Down Down baby, 30May 07,  https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=63097 , Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?

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Example #8

Down Down Baby
Down by the Roller Coaster
Ah Biscuit
Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pah
Ah Biscuit
Um Shar Shara
Uh she she ahwa
Ah Biscuit
I had ah boyfriend*
Ah Biscuit
He’s so fine
Ah Biscuit
Like a cherry pie
AH Biscuit
Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pah
Um Shar Shara
Uh she she ahwa
I wanna tickle you.
-Diamond, Quala. Ashley, (African American females); Quinton, Javonte (African American males); Duquesne, Pennsylvania, 7/1999; Collected by Azizi Powell
-snip-
I collected this version from children who attended a summer camp in Duquesne, Pennsylvania, a city that is close to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I asked the group at that indoor camp to share some hand clap songs they knew. This is one of the examples that they shared. I guessed at the spelling for some of these words. *The boys chanted the word "girlfriend" while the girls chanted the word "boyfriend". 

These children were shy and didn't show me the hand clap routine that they usually did with this rhyme.  However, based on my direct observations of this rhyme, the usual way that I've seen it performed is with two people standing facing their partner; with three people in a triangle formation, or with four people (i.e. two sets of partners facing each other) in a square formation, or standing in a circle formation with more than four people.

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Example #9

Ronald Mcdonald
A biscuit
Ronald Mcdonald
A biscuit
Ah shimmy shimmy walla walla
Biscuit
I've got a boyfried a biscuit
He is as sweet as a biscuit
Ice cream soda with a cherry on the top
Ice cream soda with a cherry on the top
Down Down baby
Down down the rollercoaster
Sweet Sweet baby, I will never let you go
Shimmy Shimmy coco pop
Shimmy shimmy pow
Shimmy Shimmy coco pop
Shimmy shimmy POW!
-Pistachionut, April 23, 2008, http://www.dance.net/topic/7106059/1/General/Do-you-remember-those-old-rhymes-you-d-sing-as-a-kid.html " re: Do you remember those old rhymes you'd sing as a kid?", 

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Example #10

"I went to elementary school starting in 1980, in Bloomfield, Connecticut (adjacent to Hartford). The girls (including my sister) did clapping games on the bus everyday it seemed, and when they hung out in the street, etc. Demographic note: my family is White; Blacks (including many Jamaicans) are a majority in the town, and were most of our playmates.

The version to this one went:
"I like coffee, I like tea
I like a Black/White boy an' he likes me
So step back White/Black boy, you don't shine
I'll get a Black/White boy to beat your behind."

The girls would switch the race of the boy, depending on who was singing. Sometimes there'd be confusion if a White and a Black girl were playing together, and they'd sort of get jumbled up on that word and try to push their version. Sometimes they would agree on a skin tone based on a previous conversion about who the girl whose "turn" it was actually "likes." The reason why I remember distinctly that they did it both ways was that as a little kid I tried to imagine what "you don't shine" meant. I'd try to reason what skin tone "shined" more! Needless to say, I never figured it out!"
-Guest Gibs, 05 Mar 09,  http://awe.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=115045&messages=154&page=2 ,RE: Not Last Night But The Night Before-rhyme 
-snip-
Here's a portion of my March 5, 2009 response to Guest Gib (posted to that "Not Last Night But The Night Before-rhyme" thread)

..."Here's my take on that "you don't shine" phrase:

In this context, "shine" means to be as radiant as the sun or stars. Saying "you don't shine" to a boy means that you don't think that he is anything special (in looks, and/or in actions, or in his very being) as he or she thinks he is. Perhaps that use of "shine" comes from the outer (or inner glow) that people are said to have because of their auras or their spirit. Theoretically, the aura* of a good or great person shines brighter than that of a person who is evil or ordinary. And a charismatic person would be described as shining brightly."...

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Example #11

Blast From The Past :]

kaitlyn renee, May 3, 2009

I went downtown to see Charlie Brown
He gave me a nickle to buy a pickle
The pickle was sour so he gave me a flower
The flower was dead so this is what he said
Down Down Baby
Down Down The Roller Coaster
Sweet sweet baby sweet sweet I love you so
Shimmy Shimmy coco pop
Shimmy shimmy rah
Shimmy shimmy coco pop
shimmy shimmy rah
I had a boyfriend
a biscuit!
He's so cute...
a triscuit!
Apples on the table,
Peaches on the floor
Step out baby I dont love you anymore!
To the front
To the back
To the side side side
To the front
to the back
to the side side side
Abraham Lincoln sat on a bench
tried to make a dollor out of 50 cents
He missed
He missed
He missed like this !
- kaitlyn renee, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdl8NVSJ_Jo "Blast From The Past :]" , Uploaded on May 3, 2009

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Example #12

Downtown baby, downtown, the roller coaster
Sweet, sweet, baby. Sweet, sweet, don't let me go.
Shimmy, shimmy, coco-pah. Shimmy, shimmy, down.
Shimmy, shimmy coco-pah. Shimmy, shimmy, break it down!
Ohh, swish-sha-wa-wa, a biscuit. I found a lover, a biscuit.
She's so sweet, a biscuit. Like a soda sweet, a biscuit.
Ice cream soda pop, cherry on top, bop!
 GUEST,Guest: Cherokee, 17 Dec 09 - 02:58 PM, https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=6600 "Downtown Baby"
-snip-
Here's the comment that Guest Cherokee wrote before sharing that example:
"I'm only interested in the dowtown baby song. If they learned it at school then I think I know. I learned it at school, too. Mine might be a different verison, though. I learned it in primary school when I lived in South Carolina."
-snip-
After Guest Cherokee shared those words, she (he, they) wrote this:
"It looks a bit silly, but it's actually a really fun hand game. Of course it varies. Instead of "lover", you can say "nother". Like another? It was really fun when I was little and really popular. It doesn't make a lot of sense but... well it's just a game! Anyways, I always liked it, still do.""

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Example #13

"
me and my friends do down down baby like this even when we are still 6 years old so it goes like this

down down baby
down down the rollacouster
sweet sweet baby
sweet sweet don't let me go
i have a boyfriend a BISQUIT
he so cute a BIQUIT
apples on the table petch in the frot 
step on baby i don't love you any more
to the front to the back
to the side to the side
to the front to the back
to the side to the side and . . . FREEZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-TIFFINILE ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTFdsz8llOI, ;July 2010 [comment]
-snip-
This video and its comment thread aren't  available anymore.

"petch in the frot [floor]" = [probably] "peaches on the floor".

****
Example #14

"I always heard it as...

Down, down baby down down the rollercoaster
Sweet sweet baby, mama never let you go,
shimmy shimmy cocoa puff
shimmy shimmy pow
shimmy shimmy cocoa puff
shimmy shimmy wow
i like coffee, i like tea,
i like a white boy and he likes me
so stand back black boy you don't shine,
i got a white boy to kick your behind,
kick it rough, kick it tough, kick it till you get enough

I am VERY saddened that we said this in elementary school."
-GUEST,guest, 12 Dec 10, https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653&threadid=100653, Down Down Baby-Race in Children's Rhymes, 

****
Example #15

I used to do a chant/clap game similar to that with my friends in elementary school when I lived in Indiana, it went something like this:

Down, down baby, down by the rollercoaster

Sweet, sweet baby, too sweet, I'll let you go

Shimmy Shimmy coco pop

Shimmy shimmy down

Shimmy Shimmy coco pop

Break down, break down

Two Chinese, sitting on a bench,

Tryin' to make a dollar outta 15 cents

You miss, you miss, you miss like this

This is how me and my boy friend kiss

Like this

 

Looking back on it now, years later, it seems racist, but I didn't really think about it when I lived in an area that was virtually just Caucasian, even though I, myself, am hispanic.

-Guest ,Alexis, 22 Dec 10,  http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653&messages=24 ; Lyr Add: Down Down Baby-Race in Children's Rhymes
-snip-
There shouldn't be any doubt that versions of "Down Down Baby" (with their "sitttng on a bench -or fence- and trying to make a dollar out of __ cents) came from the racist Ching Chong rhymes. However, I believe that simply mentioning a race in a rhyme or elsewhere means that that rhyme has racial content, but that rhyme isn't automatically racist. That said, the "trying to make a dollar out of __ cents, can be interpreted to be mocking those persons' lack of understanding of United States money. Or it might be scornful of those persons' engaging in "hustling" and trying to get more for less.

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Example #16

"In PA we learned it as: down down baby, down by the rollercoaster, sweet sweet baby, i'll never let you go, jimmy jimmy coco puff, jimmy jimmy pow, jimmy jimmy coco puff,  jimmy jimmy coco pow, say it all together, just like a feather.. P. O. W. spells POW! (then we would pretend to hit each other) lol  That brought back memories!"
-Rae Rae, 2012, [comment], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RQkTGU1cQ "Down Down Baby Hand Clap Australia" published by yummum1978, Jun 7, 2010
-snip-
The words and performance activity of this rhyme is the same as that given in the Sesame Street clip (Example #4)

That discussion thread is no longer available since 2019 when YouTube prohibited discussion threads for most of its children's videos and at the same time deleted most of the discussion threads that were found on YouTube. 

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Example #17

Down down baby
Down by the rollorcoaster
Sweet sweet baby
Mama never lets you go
Shimmy shimmy cocoa puffs
Shimmy shimmy wow
Shimmy shimmy cocoa puffs
Shimmy shimmy break it down
I have a boyfriend
A biscuit
He is as sweet as
a biscuit
Down down baby
Down by the rollorcoaster
Sweet sweet baby
Mama never lets you go
-GUEST, 02 Oct 13,  https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653 "Down Down Baby-Race in Children's Rhymes"

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Example #18

Down down baby down by the roller coaster
sweet sweet baby mama never let you go
if you wanna kiss me just say you love me

Shimmy shimmy coco pop shimmy shimmy pow
shimmy shimmy coco pop shimmy shimmy pow

I like a black boy and he likes me
so step back white boy I ain't shy
I bet you 5 dollars i'll beat yo behind

Last night and the night before
I met my boyfriend at the candy store
he brought me ice cream he brought me cake
he brought me home with a belly ache

I said momma momma i'm so sick
call the doctor quick quick quick!
I said doctor doctor shall i die
he said close your eyes and count to 5

I said ah 1 ah 2 ah 3 ah 4 ah 5...
i'm alive on channel 5
scooby dooby doo on channel 2
big fat lady on channel 80
and all the rest on channel 8
-Guest, Meme, 03 July 14, https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653 "Down Down Baby-Race in Children's Rhymes"

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Example #19

Ronald McDonald, a biscuit (accompanied by thumbs pointing back over the shoulders, first one, then the other)

Ronald McDonald, a biscuit

oh shu shu wa wa a biscuit

ive got a girlfriend a biscuit

shes so sweet a biscuit

sweeter than a cherry treat a biscuit

icecream soda with a cherry on top

icecream soda with a cherry on top

Down, down, baby

Down, down the roller coaster (accompanied by the hand making a horizontal wave motion)

Sweet, sweet, baby (accompanied by both arms crossing the chest)

I'll never let you go

Shimmy, Shimmy cocoa pop

Shimmy, Shimmy POW! (accompanied by punching the air with a fist just below chest-level)

Shimmy, Shimmy cocoa pop

Shimmy, Shimmy POW!
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Down_Baby (Eastern Massachusetts Version),  retrieved November 2, 2014
-snip-
The current Wikipedia page for "Down Down Baby" doesn't include any examples. Another example of that rhyme that I retrieved on that date doesn't include any chronological information.

Here's the link to that Wikipedia page as of June 25, 2023: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Down_Baby  

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Example #20

"this is how i learned mine:

down down baby, down by the roller coaster,sweet sweet baby,i dont want to let u go,gimme gimme coconut, gimme gimme round, gimme gimme coconut, gimme gimme round,breakdown,2 little kids sitting on the fence,trying to make a dollar out of 85 cents,she missed, she missed, she missed like this
-Raquel Grier, 2016, [comment], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RQkTGU1cQ "Down Down Baby Hand Clap Australia" published by yummum1978, Jun 7, 2010

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Example #21

"
The lyrics are down down baby down by the roloarcoast shimy shimy baby oh how I love you so shimy shimy cocoa puffs shimy shimy ride I like coffee I like tea I like like another boy he likes me now up and down and side to side p o p spells pop"
-I'm a emotional potato with feelings, 2018, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RQkTGU1cQ "Down Down Baby Hand Clap Australia" published by yummum1978, Jun 7, 2010

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Example #22

.Down down baby
Down by the roller coaster
Sweet sweet baby
Momma never let you go
Shimmy shimmy cocoa pop
Shimmy shimmy wow
Shimmy shimmy cocoa pop
Shimmy shimmy break down
Two Chinese sittin on a fence
Tryin to make a dollar
Out of 45 cents
You miss, you miss You miss like this
This is how me and my boyfriend kiss
-GUEST, Indians Kid, 11 Feb 23, https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100653 "Down Down Baby-Race in Children's Rhymes"


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7 comments:

  1. Here are three comments that I just posted to the comment section of "Ronald McDonald A Biscuit" & Other Children's Rhymes That Include The Word "Biscuit" (Information, Comments, & Examples)" http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2018/07/ronald-mcdonald-biscuit-other-childrens.html:

    "I'm re-reading the comments for this post (and for that cocojams2 post about "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" and I realize that some people think (thought) that the "Co Co Pop" is (was) a referent for carbonated soft drink. Some people (in different states and different cities within the United States States and some people in other parts of the world) refer to carbonated soft drinks as "pop", "soda pop", or "soda".

    In her comment given above Australian commenter Samantha Gerada wrote that she and her friends thought that the "Co Co Pop" referred to "Coca Cola".

    I'm from Atlantic City, New Jersey and people there refer to carbonated soft drinks as "soda". In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania which is two hours away from Atlantic City and six hours away from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, those drinks are also referred to as "soda". When I moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I learned that those drinks were referred to as "pop".

    When I lived in Atlantic City, New Jersey I chanted a version of "I Love Coffee I Love Tea" rhyme that included some "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" lines. (This was in the 1950s and/or early to mid 1960s.) However, I didn't think that "Co Co Pop" referred to soda or pop. If I thought about it at all, I probably equated the "Co Co" words with meaningless rhythmic sounds and I thought the word "Pop" was the sound that occurs when a balloon burst or what is meant when people say "Pop goes the weasel" (not that I knew what a weasel was") I think I believed those "Pop goes the weasel" words referred to the sudden appearance of the Jack in the box toy.)"

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    1. Furthermore, I've come across the end word "puff", "puffs", and "pow" instead of the word "pop" in online examples of that rhyme. And when I was a child, I may have chanted those words as "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co pa". However, the word "pop" is the most often used end word that I've come across for versions of those lines.

      Delete
    2. I'll add that when I chanted the word "shimmy" in that "I Love Coffee I Love Tea" * rhyme, I didn't think that the words "co co" meant the hot or cold chocolate drink called "cocoa".

      Also, I didn't know that "Shimmy" was the name of a hip or butt shaking dance or that chanting that word meant that children should do that dance. I don't remember thinking about what that word "shimmy" meant. It was probably chanted from rote memory, and I definitely don't remember doing any butt or hip shaking dance while chanting it. I would have remembered that since it would have been kinda risque for children to do that way back then.

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    3. I meant to add this note after the asterisk in that last comment:
      The version of "I Love Coffee I Love Tea"/Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" that I remember from my childhood didn't include the words "Down down baby/down by the rollercoaster".

      Delete
  2. I believe that the words "down down baby" are a shortened form of the sentence "We're [or "l'm] going down down baby/down by the rollercoaster".

    It's also possible that the words "down down baby" could have originally been "downtown baby" as in "We're [or i"m] going downtown baby".

    These two examples that use the words "downtown baby" are found in this Mudcat folk music discussion thread
    Subject: Downtown Baby
    From: Rex Rideout
    Date: 18 Sep 98 - 04:05 PM

    "Alright it's not folk and my name will be permanently tarnished in this group but here it is. I'm looking for info (singer, lyrics, music) on "Downtown Baby". The one goes like Shimmy, shimmy cocopah. I hated to bring it up but my kids like it. Heard it in school I guess. Rex Rideout"...
    Subject: RE: Downtown Baby
    From: GUEST,Guest: Cherokee
    Date: 17 Dec 09 - 02:58 PM

    I'm only interested in the dowtown baby song. If they learned it at school then I think I know. I learned it at school, too. Mine might be a different verison, though. I learned it in primary school when I lived in South Carolina.

    Downtown baby, downtown, the roller coaster
    Sweet, sweet, baby. Sweet, sweet, don't let me go.
    Shimmy, shimmy, coco-pah. Shimmy, shimmy, down.
    Shimmy, shimmy coco-pah. Shimmy, shimmy, break it down!
    Ohh, swish-sha-wa-wa, a biscuit. I found a lover, a biscuit.
    She's so sweet, a biscuit. Like a soda sweet, a biscuit.
    Ice cream soda pop, cherry on top, bop!

    It looks a bit silly, but it's actually a really fun hand game. Of course it varies. Instead of "lover", you can say "nother". Like another? It was really fun when I was little and really popular. It doesn't make a lot of sense but... well it's just a game! Anyways, I always liked it, still do."

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    Replies
    1. Contrary to what Rex Rideout wrote in his 1998 mudcat post that I just quoted, I strongly believe that children's recreational rhymes, children's singing games, and children's cheers are folk music and should be documented and discussed on a folk music forum such as mudcat.

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    2. I just happened upon this article about an African American woman's remembrances of "Down Down Baby" chanted as a Double Dutch rhyme:
      https://ywalker.medium.com/double-dutch-leftover-bb55d18ad38c "Double Dutch Leftover" by Yvette Walker, Jan. 24, 2018

      Here's an excerpt of that article:
      "“Down, down, baby, down down by the rollercoaster. Sweet, sweet baby, I’ll never let you go. Shimmy, shimmy cocoa pop, shimmy, shimmy pow …”

      This chant, or some form of it, could be heard in any black neighborhood in the 60s and 70s where there were young black girls. It was the chant of the double dutch rope.

      And though I could sing the chant, I could not jump double dutch.

      That’s right. I am black girl who can’t jump Double Dutch.
      I loved jumping rope single-handedly, either in place or skipping down the street. But I felt intimidated when I’d roll up on groups of girls who seemingly formed their own teams of 4–6 turners and jumpers who were moving together in rhythm and rhyme, saying the sing-songy words and smiling and giggling.

      I wanted to join in. I wanted to BE them. But I just couldn’t do it.

      Double Dutch is comprised of two girls at either end of two ropes. They turn the ropes outward in, in unison, and a girl (or more) jumps in the middle of the ropes.

      When you jump Double Dutch, there are two ways to start: standing right in the middle, between the two ropes, and start when the turners start, or jumping into the already moving ropes. This is what most of the girls in my neighborhood in South Chicago did."...

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