buttercup7956, March 19, 2011
-snip-
My transcription of this video is given below.
****
Edited by Azizi Powell
Latest Revision- Janauary 25, 2022
This is Part II of a two part pancocojams series on Jazz scatting and the inclusion of the Jazz scatting phrase "scooby doo" in some versions the "Miss Sue From Alabama" children's rhyme.
Part II presents some information about the children's recreational rhyme "Miss Sue From Alabama" (or "Miss Sue From Parramatta"). Part II also presents an example from that rhyme family that includes the scat phrase "scooby-do-wah" and some examples of that rhyme that include the phrase or cartoon dog's name "Scooby Doo".
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2020/11/what-is-jazz-scatting-with-youtube.html for Part I of this pancocojams series. Part I presents definitions for and article extracts about Jazz scatting.
The Addendum to that post also presents information about scatting.
The content of this post is presented for cultural, entertainment, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all the unknown composers of these rhymes and thanks to John and Alan Lomax for collecting and publishing some early examples of these rhymes. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publisher of this video on YouTube.
****
EARLIEST RECORDED DATES FOR "MISS SUE FROM ALABAMA": 1930s and 1940s1934- cited by Google result: Miss Sue From Alabama- Kodaly Center For Music Education that online site which is no longer available]
Collected by John and Alan Lomax, 1934. Informant/Performer Eight girls, Kirby Industrial School, Atmore, AL,1934. State:Alabama
**
1936- https://www.loc.gov/resource/afc9999005.1833.0
"Title: Miss Sue from Alabama
Contributor Names
Lomax, John Avery -- 1867-1948 (recordist)
Unidentified children (singer)
Created / Published: Taylor, Louisiana.
Subject Headings: - United States of America -- Louisiana -- Taylor
Notes
- Sung by Negro
children with dancing. (statement of responsibility)
- With dancing.
- School Yard (venue)"
**
Miss Sue from Alabama / Who De Cat (Sail, Sail)
Date recorded: August 12, 1942
Contributor(s): Performer: Unidentified girls; Performer:
Johnson, Mary; Performer: Harris, Etherine; Recordist: Lomax, Alan; Recordist:
Jones, Lewis
Subject(s):
Genre: play song, game song
Instruments: voice
Setting: Mohead Plantation
Location: Moon Lake, Coahoma County, Mississippi, United
States
Tape number: AFS6669
Track Number: 3
Archive ID: 6669A3
Transcript:
Belongs to: Moon Lake 8/42"
-snip-
"Miss Sue Miss Sue
Somebody’s in your parlor
Miss Sue Miss Sue
Somebody’s in your parlor
Miss Sue Miss Sue
Somebody’s in your parlor
Miss Sue from Alabama
Miss Sue Miss Sue
Did you ever see a monkey make a motion
Miss Sue Miss Sue
Did you ever see a monkey make a motion
Did you ever see a monkey make a motion
Miss Sue from Alabama"
WHAT "BETTY CROCKER" MEANS IN SOME CONTEMPORARY EXAMPLES OF "MISS SUE FROM ALABAMA"
Some contemporary versions of "Miss Sue From Alabama" in the
USA include the lines "sittin in the rocker/eating Betty
Crocker"/watching the clock go boom tick tock etc".
“Eatin Betty Crocker" means "eating Betty Crocker cookies or pastry", "Betty Crocker" is the invented name for a fictitious cook who represents the General Mills company. That name and character was first introduced in 1921. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Crocker "Betty Crocker" cookbooks contain easy to use recipes, including recipes for bake goods such as cookies, pies, and cakes. Thus "eating Betty Crocker" means eating some baked goods that were created by using a Betty Crocker recipe.
The word "rocker" is an abbreviation for "rocking chair" and the word "crocker" rhymes with the word "rocker".
Based on my admittedly informal collection efforts, it appears to me that "eatin Betty Crocker" versions of "Miss Sue From Alabama" are relatively recent (1990s?). Please share any examples of this rhyme that you remember with the phrase "Betty Crocker" that predate the 1990s. Thanks!
****
AN EXAMPLE OF "MISS SUE FROM ALABAMA" THAT INCLUDES
THE SCATTING PHRASE "A DOOBIE- DO-WAH
[no title given]
Miss Sue
Miss Sue
Miss Sue from Alabama
Someone is in your garden
Miss Sue
Miss Sue
Someone is in your garden
Miss Sue from Alabama
Show me what you can do
Miss Sue
Miss Sue
Show me what you can do
Miss sue from Alabama
Is this the way you do
Miss Sue
Miss Sue
Is this the way you do
Miss Sue from Alabama
Hey Hey
A doobie-do-wah
Your mama's broke
And your papa's broke
Turn to the east
Turn to the west
Turn to the very one you love the best
Milk in the pitcher
The butter's in the bowl
Can't catch a sweetheart
To save your soul
I think this is the way we sang this game in Northern Mississippi cira 1965.
-snip-
GUEST,nanasallthat, Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?, https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=63097 ; 11 Dec 07
-snip-
Italics are used to highlight this line.
-snip-
This is the earliest example of "Miss Sue From Alabama" with words that I've come across offline or online.
This contributor didn't include any racial demographic information. However, the textual structure and vernacular language of this example is clearly of African American origin. Notice that the contributor referred to rhyme as a "game". Also, notice the "show me your motion: and "I can do your motion" lines. These lines strongly suggest that this version of "Miss Sue From Alabama" was performed as a "show me your motion" circle game with one person in the center.
**
This example is composed of a number of lines from stand alone rhymes including a version of "Little Sally Walker" that is found in
https://www.loc.gov/folklife/LP/AfroAmFolkMusicMissL67_opt.pdf [B7 Sung with hand clapping by Nettie Mae and Aleneda Turner, near Senatobia, Mississippi, July 9,1971. Recorded by Cheryl Evans.]
"Little Sally Walker sitting in a saucer.
Rise, Sally, rise.
Wipe )'our weeping eyes.
Put your hand on your hip
And let your backbone slip.
Oh, shake it to the east.
Oh shake it to the west.
Oh, shake it to the one that you love the best
Your mama says so.
Your papa says so.
That's the way you do it,
and you'll never catch a beau.
The milk in the pitcher,
the butter ill the bowl.
You can't catch a sweetheart
to save your soul. "
****
EXAMPLES OF "MISS SUE FROM ALABAMA THAT INCLUDE A
"SCOOBY DOO" PHRASE/NAME
(with the name or words "Scooby do" given in italics to highlight that portion of the rhyme]
MISS SUE FROM ALABAMA
(Version #1)
Miss Sue
Miss Sue from Alabama
Hey you,
scooby do
your Mama's got the measles
Your papa's got the flu
magic measles
magic flu
Take an a b c d e f g
Take an h i j k l m n o p
Take a smooth shot
Take a smooth shot
and now freeze.
-Eleanor Fulton, Pat Smith: Let's Slice The Ice,
(Magnamusic-Baton, 1978; St. Louis, Mo.; p. 16)
-snip-
Rhymes in this compilation are from African American children in St. Louis, Missouri.
It's very likely that children who read this example think that the words "scooby doo" refer to the cartoon dog "Scooby Doo". However, I believe that those words were derived from the Jazz scatting term "scooby-doo- wah (or similar scatting terms) and were used for rhyming purposes ("doo" rhymes with "you"). Furthermore, I believe the name "Scooby Doo" came from that Jazz scatting term.
Here's information about the "Scooby Doo" cartoon character from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooby-Doo
"Scooby-Doo is an American animated franchise comprising many
animated television series produced from 1969 to the present, as well as their
derivative media. Writers Joe Ruby and Ken Spears created the original series,
Scooby-Doo, Where Are You!, for Hanna-Barbera Productions in 1969. This
Saturday-morning cartoon series featured teenagers Fred Jones, Daphne Blake,
Velma Dinkley, and Norville "Shaggy" Rogers, and their talking brown
Great Dane[1] named Scooby-Doo, who solve mysteries involving supposedly
supernatural creatures through a series of antics and mis-steps.[2]”…
-end of quote-
Notice that the words "scooby doo" in this example isn't capitalized as they would be if they were names. Instead, the word "doo" is part of a Jazz scatting phrase that rhymes with the word "you" in the preceding line. That said, "Scooby Doo" is capitalized in the example given as #4 below.
**
I believe that "take a smooth shot" is a folk processed form of the phrase "take a flu shot".
****
MISS SUE FROM ALABAMA (Version #2)
Miss Sue
Scooby Doo
Miss Sue from Alabama
Sittin at the table
peeling mashed potatoes.
Waitin for the clock to go
boom tick tock.
boom ticky wally wally.
Boom tick tock
Boom ticky wally wally.
Stop!
Ah 2 more time.
Boom tick tock.
Boom ticky wally wally.
Boom tick tock.
boom ticky wally wally.
Ah 1 more time.
Boom tick tock
Boom ticky wally wally
Boom tick tock.
Boom ticky wally wally.
Ah no more times.
-Alafia Children's Ensemble, Pittsburgh, PA; 1999 &
2001; Collected by Azizi Powell, 1999 & 2001 [Groups on both dates recited
the same rhyme.]
-snip-
"Alafia Children's Ensemble" was the name of the
children's cultural group that I founded in 1990. The group in Braddock,
Pennsylvania was divided into components- one for girls and boys ages 5-12
years old in which the group learned,
shared, and performed original and adapted African American game songs, cheers,
and rhymes and one for girls and boys ages 10-14 years old in which children
were introduced to playing the djembe drum. The group in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania consisted of girls ages 8-9 years old who learned, shared, and
performed original and adapted African American game songs, cheers, and rhymes .
A lot of the children's rhymes that I directly collected from 1990-2004 came
from these groups.
****
MISS SUE FROM PARRAMATTA (Example #3)
Miss Sue
Miss Sue
Miss Sue from Parramata
Hey you
Scooby-Doo
Your mother's got the measles
Your fathers got the flu
Magic measles magic flu
Take a abcdefg
Take a hijklmnop
Take a smooth shot
Take a smooth shot
And freeze.
-buttercup7956, Mar
19, 2011
-snip-
Here's information about Parramatta from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parramatta
"Parramatta … is a major commercial city[7][8] in Greater
Western Sydney, located in the state of New South Wales, Australia. It is
located approximately 24 kilometres (15 mi) west of the Sydney central business
district on the banks of the Parramatta River.[2] Parramatta is the
administrative seat of the local government area of the City of Parramatta and
is often regarded as the main commercial centre and the central business
district for the broader Greater Western Sydney region.”…
****
MISS SUE FROM PARRAMATTA (Example #4)
mine is
miss sue
miss sue
miss sue from parramata
hey you Scooby-Doo
your mother's got the measles
your fathers got the flu
magic measles magic flu
take a abcdefg
take a hijklmnop
take a smooth shot
take a smooth shot
and freeze. (×4)
-Gymnast Queen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-svfUMX3BMMiss Sue Playground Song [discussion thread comment; discussion thread no longer available*], 2016
-snip-
*As per the policy of YouTube announced in Feb 2019, YouTube disabled almost all of the discussion threads for its videos featuring children *, including the one for the video whose link is given above. The admirably reason for this policy was to prevent "predatory comments". YouTube discussion threads were a treasure trove for contemporary examples of children's recreational rhymes. Unfortunately, almost all of the discussion threads for YouTube children's rhymes were deleted because of that policy. That action resulted in the lost of folkloric material and also means that the opportunities for people to share examples of and information about children's rhymes, game songs, and cheers online are greatly reduced.
All online versions of "Miss Sue From Parramatta" that I've come across don't include the "scooby doo" phrase/name, For instance, here's a link to another example of "Miss Sue From Parramata" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmqEV2U6uA&ab_channel=ThomasTang. The brief summary statement indicates that the girl reciting this rhyme learned it in school. This version doesn't include the "Scooby Doo" phrase/name, but otherwise is the same as the other "Miss Sue From Parramatta" examples given in this post.
****
ADDENDUM: SCATTING
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scat_singing
'In vocal jazz, scat singing is vocal improvisation with
wordless vocables, nonsense syllables or without words at all.[2][3] In scat
singing, the singer improvises melodies and rhythms using the voice as an
instrument rather than a speaking medium. This is different from vocalese,
which uses recognizable lyrics that are sung to pre-existing instrumental
solos.
Structure and syllable choice
Though scat singing is improvised, the melodic lines are
often variations on scale and arpeggio fragments, stock patterns and riffs, as
is the case with instrumental improvisers. As well, scatting usually
incorporates musical structure. All of Ella Fitzgerald's scat performances of
"How High the Moon", for instance, use the same tempo, begin with a
chorus of a straight reading of the lyric, move to a "specialty
chorus" introducing the scat chorus, and then the scat itself.[4] Will
Friedwald has compared Ella Fitzgerald to Chuck Jones directing his Roadrunner
cartoon—each uses predetermined formulas in innovative ways.[4]
The deliberate choice of scat syllables is also a key
element in vocal jazz improvisation. Syllable choice influences the pitch
articulation, coloration, and resonance of the performance.[5] Syllable choice
also differentiated jazz singers' personal styles: Betty Carter was inclined to
use sounds like "louie-ooie-la-la-la" (soft-tongued sounds or
liquids) while Sarah Vaughan would prefer "shoo-doo-shoo-bee-ooo-bee"
(fricatives, plosives, and open vowels).[6] The choice of scat syllables can
also be used to reflect the sounds of different instruments. The comparison of
the scatting styles of Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan reveals that
Fitzgerald's improvisation mimics[a] the sounds of swing-era big bands with
which she performed, while Vaughan's mimics[b] that of her accompanying bop-era
small combos.[10]"...
****
This concludes Part II of this pancocojams post.
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
I just came across an example from another children's rhyme family that includes the words "scooby doo". In this example, "scooby doo" is probably the cartoon character. Here's the comment it replies to and the comment that includes the words "Scooby Doo":
ReplyDeleteFrom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0KMFSj-FrQ&t=23s&ab_channel=Camillecoggburn "Fun hand games"
syckindahead, 2014
[shares another rhyme example]
"Then there's "una dos see es o said a east a west I met my boyfriend at the candy store. He brought me ice cream he brought me cake he brought me home with a bellyache. Mama mama im so sick/call the doctor quick quick quick/ doctor doctor will I die/ count to five and you'll be alive / a 1 a 2 a 3 a 4 a 5 im alive/ a 6 a 7 a 8 a 9 a 10 I'm dead again"
**
REPLY
Monet-AaliyahM 2014
"i heard of uno dos see ano i love that hand games but i know a different version instead its a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 i'm alive on channel 5 scooby doo on chanel 2 rick flay on channel 8 know freeze"
-snip-
I don't know who "Rick Flay" is. Maybe he's an actual news reporter on channel 8.
An earlier version of this pancocojams post included this Wikipedia quote:
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Sue_from_Alabama
"Miss Sue From Alabama" is a song sung by African American children in the South at the turn of the 20th century. The children would then dance with each other. Miss Sue was, in African American folklore, a prostitute that lured White men to bed and then manipulated them into doing favors for the Black men on the plantation. She was somewhat of a spy an undercover agent that worked on behalf of Black men.[citation needed]
The song was recorded in 1934 and 1939.[1]"
-snip-
The first and last sentences of this description are true. However, based on historical evidence, the remaining portion of this description is probably fakelore [UNTRUE].
I haven't come across any mention of African American folklore that describes Miss Sue as a prostitute that lured White men on the plantation to do favors for Black men. This description is highly unlikely based on known historical facts about life on American Southern plantations.
MISS SUE FROM PARRAMATTA (Example #4) is the song my sisteris doing for her itam at school and i like it
ReplyDeleteHello, Anonymous! Thank you your comment.
DeleteI don't know why the geographic location "Parramatta" is used for some examples of "Miss Sue From Alabama" except that "Parramatta" kinda rhymes with "Alabama" and "Parramatta" sound cool to say.
Here's information about Parramatta from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parramatta: "Parramatta is a suburb and major commercial centre[7][8] in Greater Western Sydney, located in the state of New South Wales, Australia. It is located approximately 24 kilometres (15 mi) west of the Sydney central business district on the banks of the Parramatta River.[2]" …
Do you live in Australia? And what is a itam?
Best wishes to you and to your sister!
Hey there, I went to school in Western Sydney in the early 00's and rhyme version #3 was taught to us by the teachers. Parramatta is one of Sydney's oldest and centrally located suburbs, it is essentially a small CBD for Western Sydney and hence, students going to school in the Western Sydney catchment would be familiar with Parramatta.
ReplyDeleteI believe each year some of the younger grades maybe years 1 or 2 (5-6 years old) would present an 'item' at assembly, which would be a sing and dance that they had rehearsed. Thanks for the comprehensive research on this as I had been wondering where the rhyme had come from :)
Hello, Anonymous.
DeleteThanks for sharing information about Parramata in the rhyme "Miss Sue From Parramata. Also thanks for remembering to include demographic information and information about how students could have shared this rhyme during assembly.
Best wishes!