This is Part IV of a four part pancocojams series about the 19th century African American originated dance song "Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On)".
This post showcases a YouTube video of guitarist/singer Sam Chatmon* singing "Can't Get The Saddle On The Old Gray Mule". That title is another referent for the song "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On."
This post also presents information about Sam Chatmon and presents lyrics for two versions of that song that Sam Chatmon sung.
Some of Sam Chatmon's memories of this song are also included in that post.
*Sam Chatmon's last name is sometimes erroneously given as "Chatman".
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/07/sound-file-lyrics-auto-generated.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. Part III showcases a 1950 sound file of Celina Lewis singing "Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On"). That post also includes the lyrics for that rendition and Celina Lewis' comments about that song. In addition, that post includes my re-wording into standard English of Celina Lewis' comments.
**** The content of this post is presented for historical, folkloric, socio-cultural, and entertainment purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to the unknown composers of this song. Thanks to Sam Chatmon, Celina Lewis, Bessie Jones, and others whose renditions and comments about this song are documented offline and online. Thanks also to the folklorists who collected & recorded this song.
**** INFORMATION ABOUT SAM CHATMON From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Chatmon "Vivian "Sam" Chatmon (January 10, 1897 – February
2, 1983)[1] was an American Delta blues guitarist and singer who was a member
of the Mississippi Sheiks.
Life and career
Chatmon was born in Bolton, Mississippi.[1] His family was
well known in Mississippi for their musical talents; he was a member of the
family's string band when he was young. He may have been Charley Patton's
half-brother.[2] In an interview he stated that he started playing the guitar
at the age of three, laying it flat on the floor and crawling under it.[3] A
year older and he recalled singing a song including the lyrics "Run down
to the river thought I'd jump an' drown / I thought about the woman I lovin'
and I turn around".[4] He regularly performed for white audiences in the
1900s.[5]
The Chatmon band played rags, ballads, and popular dance
tunes. Two of Sam's brothers, the fiddler Lonnie Chatmon and the guitarist Bo
Carter, performed with the guitarist Walter Vinson as the Mississippi
Sheiks.[1]
Chatmon played the banjo, mandolin and harmonica in addition
to the guitar. He performed at parties and on street corners throughout
Mississippi for small pay and tips. In the 1930s, he recorded with the Sheiks
and also with his brother Lonnie as the Chatman Brothers.[1]
Chatmon moved to Hollandale, Mississippi in the
early 1940s and worked on plantations there.[6] He was rediscovered in 1960 and
started a new chapter of his career as a folk-blues artist.[1] In the same year
he recorded for Arhoolie Records. He toured extensively during the 1960s and
1970s. While in California in 1970, he made several recordings with Sue
Draheim, Kenny Hall, Ed Littlefield, Lou Curtiss, Kathy Hall, Will Scarlett and
others at Sweet's Mill Music Camp, forming a group he called "The California
Sheiks".[7] He played many of the largest and best-known folk festivals,
including the Smithsonian Folklife Festival in Washington, D.C., in 1972, the
Mariposa Folk Festival in Toronto in 1974, and the New Orleans Jazz &
Heritage Festival in 1976."...
**** EXCERPT FROM FOLKSTREAM FILM TRANSCRIPT
Pancocojams Editor's Notes: The YouTube video that is given at the top of this pancocojams post is from this Alan Lomax film.
The name "Alan" in this transcript refers to (White American) folklorist Alan Lomax.
The name "Sam" in this transcript refers to (African American) guitarist/singer Sam Chatmon. (Sam Chatmon's last name is sometimes given as "Chatman".)
I added the words given in italics as explanations.
"[Alan] “America has a patchwork culture of the dreams and
songs of all its people This is Alan Lomax. Come with me now on an adventure in
our marvelous patchwork culture. Folklorists like myself spent a great deal of
time with old people, people of the early generation. What we're looking for
though is not the old things, but basically the roots of the culture. We're
looking for the keel of the culture so that we can, in them we find the things,
the values, the forms, the shapes, the songs, the ceremonies, which go back as
far as the living memory can take us into the past and we establish therefore
the actual baseline keel of the cultures.
[…]
- This is the heart of the Delta. Hollandale, Mississippi,
and we're at the home of a member of one of the royal families of the blues,
Sam Chatman. The Chatman family was here when the blues began, almost a 100
years ago. They helped to make them and popularize them, and when you think
about it, it was almost a miracle that occurred then, deep in the heart of the
Delta.
[…]
- [Alan] Do you remember how the tunes he played to you? [“He”
refers to-Sam Chatman’s father]
[Sam]- Yeah, I remember practically all of 'em, all of 'em is
just old things about can't get the saddle on the old gray mule, Little Liza
Jane.
♪ Whoa, mule ♪
♪ Whoa, mule ♪
♪ Whoa, mule ♪
♪ Can't get the saddle on the
old gray mule ♪
♪ Can't get the saddle on the
old gray mule ♪
♪ Chicken in the bread pan ♪
♪ Pickin' up dough ♪
♪ Everybody time for more ♪
♪ Can't get the saddle on the
old gray mule
♪ Can't get the saddle on the
old gray mule ♪
♪ Can get the saddle on the old
gray mule ♪
♪ Whoa, mule ♪
♪ Whoa, mule ♪
♪ Can't get the saddle on the
old gray mule
[…]
[Alan]- In Chatman, we meet a real professional, and
that was characteristic of the blues very early. It was a chance for the
talented Black musicians of the Deep South to become professional and in doing
so, they made a transform of folk music into something that could live and grow
in an urban setting, and the Chatman family was very important in all this, as
he'll tell us.
[Chatman]- Peter Chatman up here in Memphis, they
called him Memphis Slim, that's one of my sister's boys. And if you ever heard
of Charlie Patton? Well, Charlie Patton's my brother.
- [Alan] Charlie Patton and others in the Chatman connection
were among the first to record the blues. "Sugar Blues" was one of
the early commercial ones.”…
-snip-
This concludes the reference to Sam Chatmon in this article except for the
lyrics to the song “Sugar Blues”.
Sam Chatmon's mention of "Little Liza Jane" near the beginning of this transcript was probably because some versions of "Little Liza Jane" includes floating verses from "Can't Get The Saddle On The Old Gray Mule" (also known as "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On").
**** LYRICS FOR "CAN'T GET THE SADDLE ON THE OLD GRAY MULE"*
This comments preface this rendition of that song. Words given in italics are my addition to this transcription for explanatory purposes.
”Square dance. Calling figures, stealing partner.
[Music]
[Sam Chatmon] Yeah, my daddy used to play them. So, we’d be in the house. We’d be in the
house playing. We’d make like a made like a mistake, playing them. So he’d tell
us “Play me [Bring me] that fiddle boy.
You didn’t play that right”. So he could [would] play it for us.
We tried to get him to play, and we couldn’t get him. “I don’t feel like
playing.”
We going out the next night and come and make mistakes. He’d say “That ain’t
right.”
So, Branch, let me show you how to play it. He could play it too.”
-snip- I don't know who "Branch" was. (I think that it was a referent for Alan Lomax.)
The sentence “He could play it too” means “He was really skillful in the way he played that song.
-snip This song begins around .45 in this video. The words in italic are my guess about what he sung.
See that gal with the red dress on Don't you stop till I told you so [?]
If you get there before I do
Just tell ??? I’m comin to
Can’t get the saddle on
Hold that mule.
Can’t get the saddle on.
Hold that mule
Can’t get the saddle on.
Whoa mule
Whoa mule
Can’t get the saddle on Hold that mule.
Can’t get the saddle on.
Hold that mule.
Can’t get the saddle on.
Chicken in the bread pan
Pickin up dough
Everybody time for more
Whoa mule
Can’t get the saddle on
Hold that mule.
Can’t get the saddle on.
Hold that mule.
Hold that mule
Can’t get the saddle on.
Hold that mule. -snip- *Part of this transcript is from the auto-generated transcription of the YouTube video that is given at the top of this pancocojams post and part of this transcript is what I believe I heard Sam Chatmon speaking and singing.
(?) means that I was unable to decipher what was being sung.
The lyrics "Don't you stop till I told you so" that are given after the line "See that girl with the red dress on" are given in italics because I'm not sure if those are the words that Sam Chatmon sung. However, those words are sung in Chatmon's version of "Little Liza Jane" that is found on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us0Uh57v0Tg .
Additions and corrections are welcome.
**** This concludes Part IV of this pancocojams series.
This is Part II of a four part pancocojams series about the 19th century African American originated dance song "Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On)" and the 19th century originated game song "Peep Squirrel".
Part II continues the presentation of information about the history and early examples of the dance song "Whoa Mule" and the African American singing game "Peep Squirrel". This post is is an updated version (with additions and corrections) of a 2013 pancocojams post that is no longer available.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/07/sound-file-lyrics-auto-generated.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. Part III showcases a 1950 sound file of Celina Lewis singing "Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On"). That post also includes the lyrics for that rendition and Celina Lewis' comments about that song. In addition, that post includes my re-wording into standard English of Celina Lewis' comments.
**** The content of this post is presented for historical, folkloric, socio-cultural, and entertainment purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to the unknown composers of this song. Thanks to Celina Lewis, Bessie Jones, Sam Chatmon, and others whose renditions and comments about this song are documented offline and online. Thanks also to the folklorists who collected & recorded this song.
**** EXAMPLES OF WHOA MULE (CAN'T GET THE SADDLE ON) (The numbers assigned to these examples continue from Part I of this series).
Example #3: From Bessie Jones and Bess Lomax Hawes Step It Down, Games, Plays, Songs & Stories from the Afro-American Heritage University of Georgia Press, 1972; p. 214.
Peep Squirrel Ya di da di deedy dum
Peep Squirrel Ya di da di deedy dum
Hop Squirrel Ya di da di deedy dum
(each line is repeated as above)
Run Squirrel
Come here, mule.
Whoa, mule I can’t get the saddle on.
Hold that mule, I can’t get the saddle on.
Go that mule I can’t get the saddle on.
Go that mule Ya di da di deedy dum, a Ya di da di deedy dum, dum! -snip- Comment written by Bess Lomax Hawes: “You can sing “Peep Squirrel” while the children dance, or while you’re bouncing a child on your knees; or at a slower pace, it makes a fine song for a tired baby and a warm lap and a rocking chair. Mrs. Jones said that the “Ya di da di deedy dum” is the sound of the squirrel’s feet scuffling in the leaves"... -snip- The Cd Put Your Hand on Your Hip and Let Your Backbone Slip includes a recording of Bessie Jones singing "Peep Squirrel". http://www.last.fm/music/Bessie+Jones/_/Peep+Squirrel
The length of that song is given as 2:32.
A 30 second mp3 sample is provided on that website. That sample is a recording of Bessie Jones explaining why the mule is including in the "Peep Squirrel" song. My summary of her comments is that a man trying to get a mule to catch a squirrel, but he’s too little to put the saddle on the mule and the saddle was too heavy.
**** Example #4 From Harold Courlander Negro Folk Music U.S.A, Courier Dover Publications, 1963, p. 160 [Google Books]
Whoa Mule Can’t Get The Saddle On “One song taken from an elderly informant was described as “as real grown up playparty”. Other than that it was “a kind of wild game that could get you thrown out of church”, no no information was given about the activity that accompanied the song.
Whoa mule Can’t Get The Saddle On (2x) Stop that mule Can’t Get The Saddle On (2x) Whoa mule Can’t Get The Saddle On(2x) Run mule Can’t Get The Saddle On (2x) Catch that mule Can’t Get The Saddle On (4x) You go that mule Can’t Get The Saddle On Go that mule Can’t Get The Saddle On -snip- Speculation about the risque nature of the performance of "Whoa Mule: Saddle" is given in the Addendum below. **** ADDENDUM
Example #2 (in Part I of this series) and Example #4 (above) allude to people labeling the way that "Whoa Mule:Saddle" was performed as being risque (sexually suggestive). Example #4 indicates that if the "wild" behavior that adults did while singing that song were known- it would get them thrown out of their church. It seems likely that that performance activity verged on sexualized horse play. Perhaps the men and women couples did piggyback rides when they sung "Ride the mule". Unless there is more documentation out there, we'll never know what was so risque about the movements that were done while singing that song that before singing her version (Example #2) Celina Hall had to basically tell church people to mind their own business.
I don't think that "Peep Squirel" or "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On" are still being sung or played by children or by adults since at least around the mid 1960s. However, I'm intrigued by the possibility that the circle game song "Here We Go Ride That Pony" may be an updated version of one or both of these songs.
The earliest online example of the singing game "Ride That Pony" in the United States that I've come across s of August 9, 2026 is from 2006. Unfortunately, the YouTube video of this game song that was published in 2006 is no longer available.
i have also come across several YouTube videos and one (word only) post about "Ride That Pony" performed as a children's singing game in Jamaica and in the Virgin islands. [A pancocojams post on these examples will be published ASAP and the link to that post will be added here.]
I'm not sayind that the performance activities of either of those 19th century songs are the same as the performance activity of "Ride That Pony". But all three of those songs include references to players doing specific movements such as running, chasing, trying to catch something or someone, trying to put a saddle on a pony (or on someone who represents a pony), and/or dancing in front of, back to back with someone, or besides someone else. -snip- The original Addendum for this 2013 post included information about and an example of the 21st century singing game "Ride That Pony". That portion of that Addendum will be added to a pancocojams post about sexualized And sexualizing children's singing games. The link to that post will be added here when it is published.
**** This concludes Part II of this pancocojams series.
℗ 1992 Rounder Records, a division of Concord Music Group,
Inc.
****
Edited by Azizi Powell
Latest Update -August16, 2026
This is Part I of a four part pancocojams series about the 19th century African American originated dance song "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On)".
Part I presents a general overview about this 19th century Southern Black American song.
In addition to presenting general information about ""Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On)", this post introduces two other 19th century songs of African American origin that sometimes include lyrics from :Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On"- "Chicken In The Bread Pan" (also known as "Chicken In Tne Bread Tray") and "Little Liza Jane".
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/07/sound-file-lyrics-auto-generated.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. Part III showcases a 1950 sound file of Celina Lewis singing "Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On"). That post also includes the lyrics for that rendition and Celina Lewis' comments about that song. In addition, that post includes my re-wording into standard English of Celina Lewis' comments.
**** The content of this post is presented for historical, folkloric, socio-cultural, and entertainment purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to the unknown composers of this song. Thanks to Celina Lewis, Bessie Jones, Sam Chatmon, and others whose renditions and comments about this song are documented offline and online. Thanks also to the folklorists who collected & recorded this song. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publisher of this video on YouTube.. -snip- It's important to note that the song "Whoa Mule, Can't Get The Saddle On" isn't the same song as "Whoa Mule" (also given as 'Whoa Mule Whoa".) "Whoa Mule" is largely performed in the 21st century as fiddle tune without any lyrics.
**** INFORMATION ABOUT "WHOA MULE (Can't Get The Saddle On)" "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On" is an up-tempo late (?) 19th century dance song that online sources credit to African Americans from the United States south.
"Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On)" is a song with a short varying line & a repeated refrain, a format which lends itself to it being sung using a call & response pattern.
Floating verses from "Whoa Mule.Can't Get The Saddle On" versions are found in some versions of "Chicken In The Bread Pan", "Lil Liza Jane" and "Peep Squirrel".
All of these songs originated in the 19th century among African Americans from the United States South.
**** AN ONLINE SUMMARY ABOUT 'WHOA MULE" From "https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Whoa_Mule_(1) "WHOA MULE (WHOA) [1]. AKA and see "Kicking Mule."
American; Song and Breakdown (2/4 time). USA; Missouri, Oklahoma, Georgia,
southwestern Va., western North Carolina. G Major. Standard tuning (fiddle).
AABB. "Whoa Mule" or "Whoa Mule Whoa" is a widespread song
and tune played throughout the south, midwest and southwest in a variety of
styles and genres, by both black and white musicians, as a song, instrumental
and a combination. There is much varaition between versions, especially in
tempo, and song lyrics are often imported from other songs or are
"floaters" in the tradition.’… -snip- The song "Whoa Mule. Can't The Saddle On" (also given as "Can't Get The Saddle On The Old Gray Mule") is a variant form of the song "Whoa Mule".
** The song "Simon Slick" that is found in Thomas W. Talley's 1922 book Negro Folk Songs: Wise & Otherwise is also a variant form of the song "Whoa Mule".
**** AN EXAMPLE OF 'WHOA MULE. CAN'T GET THE SADDLE ON" LYRICS IN THE SONG "CHICKEN IN THE BREAD PAN".
Hold that mule.
Whoa mule!
Whoa, mule!
Can’t get the saddle on.
Whoa, mule!
Hold that mule.
Whoa mule from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zswLahjLb7 "Sam Chatman "Can't Get The Saddle On The Old Gay Mule", published by Lomax Film Collection, 1978 -snip- This is my transcription of those lyrics. I'm not sure about my transcription of the words that are given in italics.
**** AN EXAMPLE OF 'WHOA MULE. CAN'T GET THE SADDLE ON" IN A VERSION OF "LIL LIZA JANE" From Margaret McKee Beale and Fred Chisenhall's book Black & Blue: Life and Music on Black America's Main Street, p. 189, published October 1,1981 [Louisiana State University Press]
[In this excerpt an African American Bluesman talks about the way that enslaved Black people used songs during slavery to express feelings that the couldn't openly express, and to make coded comments about their treatment by White people & about their oppressive living conditions.]
“I’ll tell you why the blues come about. It’s an expression that a person have –he want to tell you something, and he can’t tell you in his words, he’ll sing it to you. See back in-well, I’ll just bring it right out plain where anybody can see it, in olden days, if a white man do a colored man wrong, he couldn’t tell him he was wrong. He’d go off on a mule or something, and sing back to that man, the blues, like, singing it to him. That’s the way a plenty of them songs come up.
Take my daddy. When he playing his fiddle in the slavery time, he wouldn’t want to play, but he had to play. So he’d go along and make things up and holler it out in the fields where the old boss man could hear him, just singing away. Now that’s what he meant – he’s tired of playing nearly every night and then working in the daytime. [Asked for an example, he sang]
“Hey Liza, little Liza Jane. Oh Liza, little Liza Jane, Can’t get the saddle on the ole gray mule Can’t get the saddle on the ole gray mule. Whoa, whoa, mule, can’t get the saddle on the ole gray mule.
He’s saying that the white man done worked him so ‘til he can’t even put a saddle on the ole gray mule.* That’s what he’s talkin about. Chicken in the bread pan Pickin at the dough When he gets through picking He stratch for more.
That’s what they be singing to the white folks what wasn’t giving ‘em enough to eat. Yeah, in slavery time. All them things come out of slavery time. All that happened in them days." -snip- *I think that some words are implied in this sentence. For instance, the above sentence would read “the white man done worked him so hard ‘til he can’t [even] get the saddle on the ole gray mule."
"Get the saddle on" means "to put the saddle on" (the mule).
On another page of this book the man speaking indicates that his father carried his fiddle to the fields. I believe that the implication is that his father was required to play the fiddle during the night for the White master’s entertainment, and then also required to play the fiddle during the day to help pace the work of other field hands. -snip- From AI Overview (result retrieved on August 15, 2026) "Early recordings of "Little Liza Jane" frequently incorporated
floating verses from "Whoa Mule," demonstrating a shared 19th-century
folk tradition. These interchangeable lyrics are well-documented in collections
like Ira Ford’s and performances by artists such as Mike Seeger." -snip- Read these quotes from the section "Selected list of recordings (in chronological order):from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%27l_Liza_Jane : "Note that some records (e.g. Silas Leachman's song "Whoa Dar Mule" and Henry "Ragtime" Thomas’s song "Run, Mollie, Run") are considered to be part of the "Liza Jane" family as they contain significant "Liza Jane" content....
Silas Leachman. "Whoa Dar Mule." Victor A-801,
1901." -snip- There are numerous versions of the song "Whoa Mule". The song "Whoa Dar Mule" that is cited in that particular Wikipedia page is one of those versions.
The multiple examples of the song "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On" are also part of the large "Whoa Mule" song family.
**** NOTE ABOUT 'WHOA MULE. CAN'T GET THE SADDLE ON" IN SOME VERSIONS OF "PEEP SQUIRELL" SONGS
"Peep Squirrel" is largely described by researchers as a "play-party motion song; a game for chasing". It seems likely that "Whoa Mule:Saddle" was also sometimes performed as a
motion/chasing song. However, there are allusions to the performance of
"Whoa Mule:Saddle" being risque.
One hint of that is found in
prefacing comments that the singer Celina Lewis made in 1950 before she sang a
version of "Whoa Mule:Saddle" that is included in folklorist Harold
Courlander's Negro Folk Music of Alabama, Vol. 6: Ring Game Songs and Others
Various Artists FW04474. Another hint of the risque nature of "Whoa
Mule:Saddle"'s performance is found in another online quote which is found
in Part II of this post.
Also, Georgia Sea Isles folk singer Bessie Jones recorded a
version of "Peep Squirrel" that includes lines from "Whoa Mule:
Saddle".
Read more about the song "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On" and "Peep Squirrel" in in Part II of this pancocojams series.
**** TWO TEXT (WORD ONLY) EXAMPLES OF "WHOA MULE (CAN'T GET THE
SADDLE ON)"
Example #1: 1:15 minute sound file
"Whoa Mule! Can't Get the Saddle On"
From the album Animal Folk Songs for Children by Mike,
Peggy, Barbara & Penny Seeger
My description: This is an uptempo, call & response
song.
****
Example #2 [Note that the YouTube sound file for this rendition of "Whoa Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On" is showcased in Part III of this 2026 pancocojams series.]
Session with Celina Lewis, (a)Catch That Squirrel,
(b)Sangaree, (c) Whoa Mule, Can't Get the Saddle On, from Harold Courlander's
Negro Folk Music of Alabama, Vol. 6: Ring Game Songs and Others Various Artists
FW04474 1955
From Harold Courlander's notes:
“The singer was an old woman when these songs were recorded.
She had a reputation of having been a fine and spirited singer when she was
young."
[Text of "Whoa Mule (Can't Get The Saddle On)- Celina
Lewis; Alabama, 1950]
All you church folks looking right at me, and they calI on
me
to praise ... get up there!
Whoa, mule, I can't get the saddle on, (2)
Stop that mule, I can 't get the saddle on, (2)
Whoa mule, I can't get the saddle on, (2)
Run mule, I can't get the saddle on, (2)
Can't you catch that mule, can't get the saddle on,
Catch that mule, can't get the saddle on, (4)
Yon go that mule, can't get the saddle on
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Notes I believe that the word "yon" that is given in these lyrics is a shortened form of the
word "yonder" (meaning "seen from a distance"). In more
standard American English, that line would be given as "Yonder goes that
mule" (I can see the mule in the distance.)
The "Go that mule" version of that line is the one
used by Bessie Jones in the 1972 Step It Down (authors Bessie Jones and Bess
Lomax Hawes). "Go that mule" is also the line for that song that was
given by "an elderly informant" in Harold Courlander's 1963 book
Negro Folk Music U.S.A and most websites that I've come across use that wording
in their lyrics for that song. However, I believe that "Go that mule"
is an example of folk etymology and "Go that mule wasn't the earliest
version of those lyrics. The "yon" word may have been dropped from
that line because that wasn't the way that Bessie Jones and others learned it.
Another possibility is that the word "yon" may have been dropped
because that word's meaning was no longer understood. Yet, "go that
mule" doesn't make any sense in Standard American English or in the
versions of African American Vernacular English that were used when this song
was published and afterwards. However, that hasn't stopped people from singing
or, at least, from quoting that version of that line.
*** REPRINTED VISITOR COMMENTS AND MY REPLY (from pancocojams' now deleted Part II "Whoa Mule, Can't Get The Saddle On" that was published in 2013:
African American fiddler Elijah Cox (1842-1941) was recorded playing the tune in 1935 in San Angelo, Texas.
White fiddler Bill Chitwood was recorded playing the tune in the 1920s with the Georgia Yellow Hammers, a white string band from North Georgia that had a close association with African American fiddler Andrew Baxter.
The tune also shows up in the Texas Style fiddle tradition with great renditions by Major Franklin, Terry Morris, Matt Wyatt, Garland Gainer, Wes Westmorland, Gary Lee Moore and others.
Thanks Dan Foster for sharing that great example of "Whoa Mule Can't Get The Saddle On"
My sincerest apologies to you for the long time it has taken me to respond to your comment.. I've just revisited this pancocojams post almost five years after your comments and am just reading it on July 24, 2026.
Knock John Booker (To The Low Ground) · Mary McDonald
Deep River Of Song: Alabama, "From Lullabies To Blues" - The Alan Lomax Collection
℗ 2001 The Association for Cultural Equity, under exclusive license to Rounder Records, a division of Concord Music Group, Inc.
Released on: 2001-05-15
Recording Engineer, Producer, Speaker: John A. Lomax
Recording Engineer, Producer: Ruby Lomax
Producer: Steve Rosenthal
Mastering Engineer: Phil Klum
Vocalist, Speaker: Mary McDonald
Assistant Producer, Recording Second Engineer: Ruby Pickens Tartt
Composer Lyricist: Traditional
Auto-generated by YouTube.
[comments are turned off]
****
Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post provides information about and lyrics for the African American song "Gon' [Gonna] Knock John Booker" (To The Low Ground). This song is classified as an African American children's game song. In this sound file, one person sings this song to the accompaniment of up-tempo hand clapping and (probably) foot stomping.
After hearing this song, my speculative conclusion is that "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground" was song that accompanied a dance competition (dance challenge). As such it was similar to African American "show me your motion" circle game songs, except that the children (or people of other ages) who participated in that dance competition weren't expected to imitate the movements of previous dancers. Instead, they were expected to show off their best dance moves regardless what dance steps other people had performed.
Also, the African American song "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground" may have been a mash up of the 1840s and later African American "Johnny Booker" songs and the 1920s bluegrass instrumental tune "Billy In The Low Ground".
The content of this post is provided for folkloric, historical, socio-cultural, and recreational purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to the composers and singer/s of "Gon' Knock John Booker". Thanks to the African American woman Molly (or Mary) McDonald for singing this song, and thanks to Alan Lomax for collecting and recording this song a many other American folk songs. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this pancocojams post. -snip- Most of the content of this post was found in a 2014 pancocojams post about the song "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground". That post had no comments. I deleted it and replaces it with this posit that includes additional information.
The YouTube sound file that I embedded in that 2014 pancocojams post was published by Nico Fournier on May 10, 2014 That post is no longer available on YouTube.
The summary for that sound file categorized it as "Afro-American Blues and Game Songs"
There apparently were at least two comments in that sound file's discussion thread because I added this statement underneath that publisher's categorization of this song: "In response to a query [from the person recording this song] who shared that this game was played in the yard and in the house too."
**** INFORMATION, LYRICS, AND DANCE INSTRUCTIONS FOR "GON' KNOCK JOHN BOOKER TO THE LOW GROUND" From http://www.loc.gov/folklife/LP/AFS_L4_sm.pdf The Library Of Congress. Music Division; Archive of American Folklore "The slave children played ring games, many of the tunes for which were adaptations of white game songs and country tunes. Three of these ring games follow; [titles "Rosey", "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground", and Run [N word*] Run"
*ThE "n word" is fully spelled out in that pdf.
GON KNOCK JOHN BOOKER TO THE LOW GROUND Gon knock John Booker to the low ground Tu-da darlln' day. Gon knock John Booker to the low ground Tu-da darlln' day. That lady bow to beat you. Tu-da darlln' day. That lady bow to beat you. Tu-da darlln' day. That gentleman bow to beat you Tu-da darlln' day. That gentleman bow to beat you
Tu-da darlln' day.
Chorus: Hey-ay-ay, Hey-ay-ay, Hello, my lover Keep a- g-wine on Hello, my lover Keep a-runnin on Hello, my lover Keep a- gwine That ole mule buck That ole mule buck Keep a- gwine Kicked the saddle off That ole mule buck Keep a- gwine [The next lines repeat what has gone on before] -snip- White folklorist John Lomax collected this song in 1940 in Alabama as it was sung by African American woman Harriet McClintock.
I believe that "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground" was a "show me your motion" African American challenge dance competition. My guess is other children sung the song while one person at a time, but probably more than one person showed off their best dance moves while other people sung that song.
Here are my guesses about the meanings of some of the lyrics of that song in the context of that song.
gon'" - African American Vernacular English word meaning "gonna" (going to), also given as "gwine".
** In the context of the song "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground", I think that the words "Knock John Booker to the low ground" has a very similar meaning as the contemporary African American Vernacular English saying "Kick 'em to the curb" (meaning,"beat that person" / "get rid of him or her" . If "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground" was a dance challenge game song-as I think it was-, the dance challenger wants to dance better than her or his competitor herein referred to as "John Booker". If that dance challenger dances better than John Booker, she (or he) would have (figuratively) knocked John Booker to the low ground.
Furthermore, I believe that the word "knock" in both of those African American songs have the connotation of dancing very well". The American saying "to knock it out of the park" (i.e. to hit a home run in baseball or in softball" has a similar complimentary meaning..
The 2016 dance name "Hit The Quan" is a "contemporary" example of the use of the phrase "hit the" + the name of a Hip Hop dance that has basically the same meaning as "Knock John Booker" and "Knock Jim Crow" i.e. "to do that particular dance" very well.
**
In the excerpt given toward the end of this pancocojams post https://andybiskin.com/musings/andy-biskin-and-16-tons-songs-from-the-alan-lomax-collection "Musings: Andy Biskin and 16 Tons: Songs from the Alan Lomax Collection" Alan Biskin (who worked for a brief period of time with folklorist Alan Lomax) wrote that "when you hear the lyrics you realize it’s a slave-era protest song. Alan writes, “‘Booker’ is another form of buckra, a word of African origin meaning ‘white’.” -end of quote-
I disagree with that statement as I don't find any references to slave-era protest in the lyrics for that song. I'm aware that the name "John Booker" was used in a number of a number of plantation (pre-end of Civil War) dance songs with titles such as "Jonny Boker", "Old Johnny Booker", "Mister Booger" "What Johnny Booker Wouldn't Do"). However, with all due respect to Alan Lomax, if the "Knock John Booker" song that his father John Lomax collected in 1940 originated as a protest song that was sung by enslaved Black people in Alabama or elsewhere in the United States, the song that John Lomax heard and recorded in 1940 didn't have any protest lyrics.
It seems to me that Alan Lomax based what I think is his faulty conclusion about the slave protest origins of that song on his belief that the last name "Booker" derived from the West African word "buckra" meaning "White man" and later, "White people". Here's information about the etymology of the word "buckra" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckra "Buckra or Backra is a term of West African origin. It is mainly used in the Caribbean and the Southeast United States. Originally, it was used by slaves to address their white owners. Later, the meaning was broadened to generally describe white people.
Etymology
"Buckra" has been found in many variants, successively bacceroe, bochara, backra, baccra, bakra, buckera, buckra, bockra,[1] and more. It probably derives from the Ibibio and Efik Annang word mbakara, meaning (white) European or master.[2] It is thought to have emerged during the 17th or 18th century colonial period of slavery, when enslaved people were transported from West Africa and Central Africa to plantations in the Caribbean owned by European colonizers.
Initially, it was used by enslaved people to address their white owners and their overseers. Later, the meaning was broadened to generally describe white people. After the abolition of slavery, the word survived to refer to white people, usually used by black people in the US in derogatory meaning."...
However, another etymology has been given for the last name "Booker" in the African American folk songs "Johnny Booker". Here's a comment about the song "Johnny Booker" from https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=67154 "Lyr Req: Old Johhny Bucker"
From: Dave Sutherland, Date: 21 Feb 04 "It is in the forum under "Old Johnny Booker". It started life as a minstrel song called "Old Johnny Bigger" with the politically incorrect chorus "Old Johnny Bigger was a gay old ni-ger*". It later changed to Booker and was a favourite among soldiers in both the first and second world wars. Jack Elliott of Birtley was perhaps best known for purveying the song to the folk scene, Both he and Bob Davenport have recorded the song. -snip- *This word is fully spelled out in this comment. The word "gay" in those lyrics means "happy".
If "Gon' Knock John Booker To The Low Ground" originated as a slave-era protest song, my guess is that its meaning and probably also its performance activity had changed a lot when John Lomax happened upon a Black woman singing it in 1940 Alabama.
By then, my guess is that in the context of that song "John Booker" no longer was a general referent for a White man if it ever was. Instead "John Booker" referred to any person who another person beat in this dance challenge.
Also, I think that the words "the low ground" no longer literally meant "a lower level of ground". Instead, by the 1940s in the context of this song, my guess is that "the low ground" figuratively, not literally meant "where the people stood who lost the dance challenge"..
** "That lady (or "that man") bow to beat you" - "bow to beat you" might mean "performing a bow or curtsy before starting the dance challenge (dancing).
However, in the "Musings: Andy Biskin and 16 Tons: Songs from the Alan Lomax Collection" article that has previously been mention in this pancocojams post (an excerpt of which is given toward the end of this post), the writer gave that lyric as "bound to beat you". In large part because of that quote and also because that meaning makes more sense for what I believe was a dance challenge, I believe that the word "bow" is a mistranslation for the word "bound". In that song "bound to beat you" means "is going to beat you (with "beat you" meaning "win"/ dance better than you".)
** "That ole mule buck"- the old mule bucked ,meaning "leap[ed] with arched back and come down with head low and forelegs stiff, in order to dislodge a rider or pack" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bucked
I wonder if the children who sung the line about the mule bucking performed the "bucking" movement that still lives on in the [new style] Black majorette dance routines. Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/07/eight-dd4l-dancing-dolls-of-jackson.html for a pancocojams post that shows examples of "bucking". Note that "bucking" isn't the same as the tap dance movement of "buck & wing".
"Alan Lomax (1915-2002) had a profound influence on our understanding of American folk music. His legacy includes thousands of essential field recordings, as well as anthologies, essays, and groundbreaking research that seeks to unravel the very meaning of music within a culture. He was a tireless advocate for what he, way ahead of his time, termed "cultural equity": giving all cultures an equal voice and promoting their diversity and preservation.
[,,,]
Alan had a genius for finding singers who not only gave us songs we’d never heard before, but also delivered intimate, unforgettable performances by infusing the words and melodies with all they knew and lived.
[,,,]
One of my favorite Lomax recordings is his "Southern Journey," a 13-volume collection from around the same time as FSNY. For that series Alan returned to many of the rural southern locales he had visited early in his career, excited to find new songs and singers. Alan always relished the fact that he and I were both displaced Texans living in exile in New York City, and I think of this CD as my own homecoming journey. I hope it proves to be a good travelling companion for you.
[…]
"Knock John Booker" is an African-American children’s game song. Alan’s father, John Lomax, recorded Aunt Molly McDonald singing it on a farm in Alabama in 1940, and as far as I can tell, there are no other available renditions. When you hear the lyrics you realize it’s a slave-era protest song. Alan writes, “‘Booker’ is another form of buckra, a word of African origin meaning ‘white’.”
Gon’ knock John Booker to the low ground Tu-da darlin’ day
That lady bound to beat you, Tu-da darlin’ day”…
Gon’ knock John Booker to the low ground Tu-da darlin’ day
That lady bound to beat you, Tu-da darlin’ day”…
**** INFORMATION ABOUT BLUEGRASS TUNE "BILLY IN THE LOW GROUND" From AI Overview (retrieved March 2, 2026)
AI Overview #1 [retrieved March 2,2026] " "Billy in the Low Ground" is a foundational,
traditionally upbeat American fiddle tune with 18th-century Scottish/Irish
roots, likely originating from tunes like "The Braes of Auchtertyre"
(1761). It became a staple in old-time and bluegrass music, typically played in
the key of C, and was popularized in the 1920s by early recording artists like
A.C. "Eck" Robertson.
Origins and Evolution
Roots: The tune's ancestry is traced to early Scottish/Irish
music, possibly related to the 1724 tune "O, Dear Mother What Shall I
do?" or the 1761 "The Braes of Auchtertyre".
Title Meaning: Theories suggest the title may refer to
William of Orange at the 1690 Battle of the Boyne (a "low ground"
battle) or simply a description of someone in a low-lying, swampy area.
Alternative Names: The song has been known as
"Fiddler’s Drunk and the Fun’s All Over," "Jinny in the
Lowland," and "The Belles of Tipperary".
Bluegrass and Early Recordings
Early Recordings: The tune was famously recorded in the
1920s by A.C. (Eck) Robertson (1924) and Fiddlin' John Carson (1923),
solidifying its place in the American repertoire.
Key of C: While many old-time tunes are in D or G,
"Billy" is famous for being in the key of C, which makes it distinct
for fiddlers and popular among guitarists (notably, Tony Rice's version is
often considered the bluegrass standard).
Variations: It has been played by a wide variety of
musicians, including Uncle Jimmy Thompson, the Kessinger Brothers, and Lowe
Stokes.
Old Time vs. Bluegrass
There is a distinct, older version known as "Old Time
Billy in the Lowground," linked to Kentucky fiddler Kelly Gilbert, which
predates the more common, fast-paced bluegrass version.
The bluegrass version is often recognized for its
"crooked" (uneven) structure in some interpretations, although the
standardized version is a 2-part reel.
Common Performances
The tune is a jam favorite for bluegrass bands, with notable
versions by Doc Watson (played in D), Byron Berline and Clarence White, and
modern interpretations by Billy Strings.
**** AI Overview #2 [retrieved March 2, 2026]
The traditional fiddle tune "Billy in the Low
Ground" was first recorded in the early 1920s, with common attributions to
early 1920s recordings by artists like Fiddlin' John Carson (circa 1923) or
A.C. (Eck) Robertson (1924). It is a well-known American fiddle tune with roots
in 18th-century Irish and Scottish music.
Earliest Recordings: While some sources cite A.C.
Robertson's 1924 recordings, the tune was in the repertoire of various
fiddlers, with recordings by Fiddlin' John Carson in 1923 and recordings by the
Kessinger Brothers in 1929.
Contest Tradition: The song was a popular contest tune,
appearing in the 1919-1928, Berea, KY, contest tune lists.
Origins: The tune is rooted in older British/Irish fiddle
traditions, with early American printings appearing in the 19th century.
It is often listed as a seminal, early American
old-time/country tune from the 1920s" -snip- Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKhfjBrWiY "Billy in the Lowground" - Benny Thomasson, published by Joy of Fiddling, Oct 21, 2016 for one of many YouTube videos of "Billy In The Low Ground"
The musician who introduced the fiddler Benny Thomasson referred to "Billy In The Low Ground" as "that old breakdown tune."
I don't think the tune for "Billy In The Low Ground" sounds the same as the tune for the song "Knock John Booker To The Low Ground". But "Knock John Booker.." could have been inspired by that instrumental song.
This post provides an article excerpt about the 19th century African American originated children's rhyme "Green Sally Up" and showcases a 1950s and a 1970s example of that song.
This pancocojams post also includes an example of a 1939 African American children's rhyme that includes two lines that remind me of "Green Sally Up".
In addition, this pancocojams post features the 1999 electronical house record "Flowers" by Moby which samples that above mentioned 1950s rendition of "Green Sally Up".
The Addendum of this post presents performance instructions and lyrics for a circle game that I created in 1990s that was inspired by the 1950s version of "Green Sally Up". The rhyme/song for that circle game has a similar tune and a similar textual structure as the 1950s version of "Green Sally Up".
The content of the this post is presented for folkloric, historical, cultural, recreational, and entertainment purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to the unknown composers of "Green Sally Up" and thanks also to all those who are featured in these embedded sound files, and the online publishers of those sound files. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post.
**** EXCERPT ABOUT THE SONG "GREEN SALLY UP" From https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/5/1577996/-Morning-Open-Thread-Old-slave-children-s-song-Bring-Sally-Up Morning Open Thread - Old slave children's song: "Bring Sally Up." By Otteray Scribe 2016/10/05 ..."Today, we have a mashup of a centuries old children's song. Not just any children’s song, but one by and for slave children in the old South. The meaning is obscure to most people. The original lyrics varied, because songs by and for children are not static. This is an approximation of the original:
Sometimes it was “Bring Sally Up” and sometimes “Green Sally.” It went on to the next line, “Last one squat gotta tear the ground." That was accompanied by dance like antics, where “Sally" referred to the little girls. They jumped and then squatted in rhythm to the song. Tearing the ground meant the last one to squat had to scrabble in the dirt with their hands.
The line, "Last one squat gotta tear the ground", is similar to the more modern phrase, "Last one to do it is a rotten egg," sort of teasing. The implication being that the last one to squat had to help the adults in the field, although it was a playground tease and not a serious threat.
The song goes on, "Old miss Lucy's dead and gone, left me here to weep alone." That verse meant the slave owner (or his wife), is dead. In the original song that verse is followed with the call, "If you hate it fold your arms, if you love it clap your hands." Obviously the kids who clapped along to the rhythmic beat of the song were glad that Old Miss Lucy has died, and the ones who didn't were showing a measure of respect for her....
The iconoclastic singer, Moby, who is white, manages to capture the rhythm and feel of the old slave song. …which he has titled, Flower. “
**** LYRICS: GREEN SALLY UP Example #1: (Mattie Garder, Mary Gardner, Jesse Lee Pratcher; 1958 rendition from Cosmo, Mississippi in Sounds of the South [4 CDs]), edited by Alan Lomax, released 1993
Green Sally up Green Sally down Last one squat gotta tear the ground Old miss Lucy's dead and gone Left me here to weep alone If you hate it, fold your arms, if you love it, clap your hands.
**** Example #2: (From Step It Down: Games, Plays, Songs, and Stories from the Afro-American Heritage by Bessie Jones and Bess Lomax Hawes, published, 1972)
Green Sally up, Green Sally down Green Sally bake her possum brown.
Asked my mama for fifteen cents to see the elephant jump the fence. He jumped so high, he touched the sky He never got back till the fourth of July.
You see that house upon that hill, That's where me and my baby live.
Oh the rabbit in the hash come a-stepping in the dash, With his long-tailed coat and his beaver on. -snip- From http://www.culturalequity.org/alanlomax/ce_alanlomax_profile_jonesb.php "Bessie Jones" by Peter Stone and Ellen Harold ...."Significantly, Bess Lomax Hawes, in her introduction to Step It Down, written jointly with [Bessie] Jones, emphasized Jones’s essential role, not as a carrier and documenter of folklore, but as a teacher; for such she felt herself to be. She was deeply aware of the socializing and educative function of the songs, plays, and movement games she remembered from her childhood:
'The children, they don’t even know how to play those things now, see. But it’s just good fun games, keeps you out of devilment, keeps you from fighting. I never had fights with children when I was little — didn’t have time to fight, we had to play. When we wasn’t eating or sleeping or working — and so that was it. But now they got time to talk about the grown things. —Step It Down: Games, Plays, Songs, and Stories from the Afro-American Heritage (1972; reprint, Athens, University of Georgia Press, 1987), p. 172
The games, mostly from the British Isles, had been widespread among Southern black and white populations as a way to circumvent religious prohibitions against physical movement and dancing. As adapted by African-Americans they served as an important vehicle to transmit traditional African-derived dance movement and rhythmic styles that promoted group cohesion, nurtured individual virtuosity, and, as Bessie realized, helped make the players physically and mentally stronger. The songs, games, and stories of the past were a “spiritual survival kit,” in Bessie’s case, connecting her with the beloved figures of the past. To keep their memory alive she sought out young people to teach them to." -snip- This 1972 published version of "Green Sally Up" is from a book about the play traditions of African Americans from the Georgia Sea Islands. This version of "Green Sally Up" includes lines from the African American originated rhymes "Miss Mary Mack" and "I Love Coffee, I Love Tea". I believe that the lines "Green Sally bake her possum brown" and "the rabbit in the hash" are from other traditional African American folk songs/rhymes, although I've not yet found any other examples of rhymes or songs that include that phrase or that verse.
In the context of this rhyme, Green Sally" means a young, inexperienced girl. "Greenhorn" is a similar use of the word "green".
The "bake her possum brown" phrase refer to the old custom among poor Black (and probably also poor non-Black) people in the Southern region of the United States of hunting opossum and rabbits, and cooking them to supplement their meager diets. -snip- Read the Addendum below for a singing game called "Green Color Up" that I created in 1990. That game was inspired by the 1950s version of "Green Sally Up".
**** SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THE DISCUSSION THREAD FOR THE SHOWCASE VIDEO GIVEN AT THE TOP OF THIS POST. These comments are numbered for referencing purposes only. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPBJRwp7eEQ
1. redplague888, 2011 "Ohhh, so this is where Moby sampled this from. Classic! I like these folk songs from back in the day."
** 2 LionArmor9, 2011 ..."Ask someone in the South and they'll tell you... They don't like the song because it's considered slave music but it is Last one squat gotta tear the ground... What sense would it make to say lift and squat gotta tear the ground."
** 3. Ali Mo, 2012
"Because this is an old slave song/hang jive song that was passed down orally there are a lot of versions/variations, although the lyrics for this one are pretty clear. Another version includes "Green Sally up, Green Sally down, Green Sally baked her possum brown. She asked her mama for fifty cents, to see the elephant jump the fence, They jumped so high, they reached the sky, and didn't come back till the Fourth of July." Similar to Miss Mary Mack oddly enough... don't know what that is about"
** 4.@IvchoBrasil, 2012 "@MrJord137 I don't care what google says. I hope you're not believing everything that's coming out in google results. I know what I hear and three days ago I was at Moby's concert where the singer sang "lift and squat" which supports my thesis. You're telling me she doesn't know the original lyrics?"
** Reply 5. @miamivicepastels83, 2012
"@IvchoBrasil moby changed it for his purposes boo. moby took the original song from this song that we are listening to now which came from slavery and little children's songs...."
** Reply
6. @MBlac777, 2012
"I agree, there are different versions of this song. However, it is a song by either slaves or sharecroppers. It is a work song. I know that google may have posted the lyrics, but they may
not have all of their information correct for the original song. So Moby's version is just that his version. It says what he says it says. However, I am curious about what the original song said. It seems like a childrens play song or a work song for plowing fields.
** Reply 7. @Roox8115, 2023 "Thank you so much for explaining this, i knew the there was something strange about it, when listening to the lyrics. Something in my mind told me this is not right, how can a children's song be about death? That's the first thing that struck me.This is NOT a children's song, and i personally don't understand why Mr. Lomax, who recorded it in 1959 in the South (probably Alabama or Mississippi), actually mis-titled it a "children's song" on the original album cover. It says "American Folk Songs for Children"...Maybe there are other songs on the album that are children's songs, i don't know, i don't have this album from 1959. But this song, in particular, is definitely a slave work song, it talks about the hard labour they have to perform all day long, lifting and carrying things, about death of old people from over-work probably, and things like that. How can that be a children's song?"
** Reply 8. @michaelbauers8800, 2024 "@Roox8115 Given some of the dark nursery rhymes I know of, and dark children's stories about parents abandoning their kids in dark forests...not sure why it could not be a children's song. I of course don't know what the song means for a fact. But old miss Lucy may be a slave owner, and a disliked one. Someone suggested the lyric is something like "last one squat going to tear the ground" is some sort of game where if you are too slow, you lose. If you lose do you "tear the ground" meaning to work in the fields? I don't know. But it feels like some of the songs I have heard kids jump rope to, just darker. And if kids of slaves sing dark songs, it's not shocking, as their lives sucked IMO."
** Reply 9. @Roox8115, 2024 "@michaelbauers8800 I see what you mean. If you're referring to the dark "children's stories" by the Grimm Brothers, those are not " children's" stories to begin with😄😄My opinion is that children were the last reason in their minds when they wrote them, in other words they were just a false pretence. The reasons were everything but the children, however they proved a good cover for those times. But that's another matter. Maybe miss Lucy was indeed an old disliked slave owner and it is is possible those were children of the slaves singing those rhymes, but i find it hard to believe. It is possible but improbable. I wouldn't apply the "Grimm Brothers" principle on a children's song, even if it's from the slave-owning era 🙂"
** Reply 10. @Open-DI_239,2024 "Slavery was a dark time, especially to the slaves."
** Reply 11. @heathertaylor8904, 2025 "@Roox8115 are you kidding? So many children's songs are about death or dark subjects."
** 12. @mreaganismyhero, 2014 "My dad bought an album with this song on it around 1970 and I grew up listening to it. It's called American Folk Songs for Children recorded by Alan Lomax. My dad's almost 80 now and I'm in my 50's and he gave me that album just about a year ago because he knew how much I liked it. I love this original version but I also like what Moby did with this song too.
Consequently, this album has another song on it (Soldier, Soldier) that Kevin Costner sang to himself in the movie Dances With Wolves while he took a swim.
**
13.@khristlemehth9615, 2014 "Actually its:
Green Sally up, Green Sally down
LIFT And Squat gotta TILL the ground"
** Reply 14. @earthgreen, 2018 "Khristle Mehth not saying 'lift 'and squat but saying "last'un" squat...last'un is how old people from the south say last one...so they saying last one squat gotta till the ground...listen closely!"
** 15. furioushazaa, 2016 "Does Moby's song say "bring" or "green"... I've seen conflicting websites.."
** Reply 17. @ClaytonMacleod, 2016 "+furioushazaa Moby's song contains a direct sample of this exact recording, which says green."
** 18. @Nicoleflygrl81, 2021 "Ol Miss Lucy is a slave owner who died.. green Sally means little girl .. this is a old plantation song"
** 19. @irwins_saucetwt3379, 2022 "Does no one else have to do push-ups to this song"
** 20. @nicoloquatraccioni3714, 2024 "Moby basically remixed this whole album (Sounds of The South by Alan Lomax)".
** 21. @Open-DI_239, 2024 "God bless my ancestors 🖤🖤🖤🖤💯"
****
LYRICS FOR A VERSION OF "RING AROUND THE ROSIE" THAT MAY BE RELATED TO "GREEN SALLY UP" From https://blogs.loc.gov/folklife/2014/07/ring-around-the-rosie-metafolklore-rhyme-and-reason/ "Ring Around the Rosie: Metafolklore, Rhyme and Reason", July 24, 2014 by Stephen Winick ..."On May 16, 1939, in Wiergate, Texas, John and Ruby Lomax collected an interesting version for the Library of Congress, from a group of African American schoolgirls. You can hear it in the player below. The words were as follows:
Ring around a Rosey Pocketful o’ posies Light bread, sweet bread, squat! Guess who she told me, tralalalala Mr. Red was her lover, tralalalala If you love him, hug him! If you hate him, stomp! Ring Round A Rosey
Ring Round Rosey AFC 1939/001: AFS 02656b01 Burkeville, Texas, 1939-05-16. -snip- The "If you love him/hug him! / If you hate him, stomp!" lines in this rhyme remind me of some of the lines in the 1950s version of Green Sally Up" that are given above.
Maybe that version of "Ring A Round The Rosie" or other versions of that singing game that mention flowers and squatting down (instead of the later "all fall down" words) explains why Moby named his tune "Flowers".
****
INFORMATION ABOUT MUSICIAN MOBY AND HIS "FLOWER" TUNE From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby "Richard Melville Hall (born September 11, 1965),[1] better known by his stage name Moby, is an American DJ, record producer, singer, songwriter, musician, photographer and animal rights activist...
In 1999, Moby released the album Play. The album had moderate sales after its release, but eventually went on to sell over ten million records worldwide a year later.[4] Every song on the album was licensed internationally to various films, advertisements, and TV shows, as well as independent films and non-profit groups.[28] Moby performed three times on Top of the Pops with singles from the album. Play mixes songs from Alan Lomax's 1993 Atlantic recording Sounds of the South: A Musical Journey From the Georgia Sea Islands to the Mississippi Delta. For the song "Natural Blues", Moby mixes "Trouble So Hard" performed by Vera Hall from the Alan Lomax Sounds of the South compilation.
In 2000, Moby contributed his song "Flower" to the intro of the Nicolas Cage remake of Gone in 60 Seconds.
**** Moby - 'Flower' (Official Audio)
Moby, Published on Aug 1, 2014
-snip- Here are a few comments from this YouTube sound file's discussion thread: slick willie, 2015 "The vocals for this song were recorded by Alan Lomax in Mississippi back during the 1950's. The vocals were sung by Maddie Gardner, Mary Gardner and Jesse Lee Pratcher and it was sung accapella (without musical instruments). Moby added the musical instruments much later for this movie (and did an excellent job, I might add) At any rate, my dad bought the album back in the 60's and I used to listen to this song as a kid growing up. I still have that album to this day. btw, the name of the song is "Green Sally Up" not "Bring Sally Up"." -snip- Click http://lyrics.wikia.com/wiki/Moby:Flower for a a transcription of the lyrics for Moby's Flower. That transcription erroneously gives the title and lyrics as "Bring Sally Up" instead of "Green Sally Up" and "Lift and squat" instead of "Last one squat".
** Eric King, 2016 "i dont get it? why is this a workout song? why is everyone saying this song makes it hard to exercise or something?"
** Ricardo Chalo, 2016 "Rich Froning (Crossfit Athlete) made a challenge workout with this song, other athletes or coaches from other sports did it too. So people are relating this song to workouts."
** Reply James STEVENS, 2016 "+Eric King when he says down you go down, such as the bottom of a squat or pushup. You hold the down position until he says up, and you follow along."
**** ADDENDUM: GREEN COLOR UP (a contemporary circle game) (created by Azizi Powell, 1990, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)
Performance Directions For "Green Color Up": 1. Players form a large circle.
2. A person is designated as the "Caller". The same person remains the caller throughout the entire rendition of this game.
3. The Caller calls out the color "Green". (If no one in the group has on an outfit with the color "green", the game start with another color).
4. Everyone who has the color "green" on quickly moves to the center of the circle. (People wearing an outfit that has that color can also remain where they are if they so choose.) **
5. Everyone claps their hands and stomp their feet to the beat while singing.
6. The people who have on the color that is called out raise both of their hands in the air and sway back and forth while singing this portion of the song.
6. The people who don't have that color on, strike a pose while folding their arms.
7. The Caller randomly calls out another color. The people in the center of the ring who don't have an outfit on that has that color in it quickly leave the center of the circle. At the same time, people who do have that color on quickly enter the center of the circle.
8. Follow the directions that have already been given, and continue this pattern until all of the colors (for outfits in that people are wearing) are called out.
** I made this rule because I noticed that some children were shy about moving to the center when they were there alone, or even when there were other people in the center.
"GREEN COLOR UP" LYRICS: Caller - Green! Caller & Group - Green color up. Green color down. Green color all around the town. If you have on green, just raise your hands. If you do not, just fold your arms.
Caller- Yellow! Caller - Green! Caller & Group - Green color up. Green color down. Green color all around the town. If you have on green, just raise your hands. If you do not, just fold your arms. -composed by Azizi Powell, 1999 (c)Azizi Powell, 1999
I created this game in 1990 after unsuccessfully trying to introduce "Green Sally Up" to the children in my Alafia Children's Ensemble game song groups. Unfortunately, I don't have any sound files or videos of this game.
I became aware of the 1950s "Green Sally Up" game after someone gifted me with the multi-CD Sounds Of The South album. Before teaching this game to the group of children and their accompanying adults (who attended these sessions and were always encouraged to join in the play), I explained its background and the meaning of the song's words. However, I gave up after several tries as I could see that the children didn't like the game and particularly had difficulty with the "last one squat gotta tear the ground" line. I think that might have been because "squatting down to the ground" is something that little children might be allowed to do in selected places outside when they have to pee and they aren't near any bathroom.
While playing "Green Color Up" some children would complain that another child or other children shouldn't go into the center of the circle because that child or children only had a little bit of a certain color in their shirt, pants, or hat. I redirected them, advising them to focus on themselves and not on other people. Also, some children wanted to count the color of their underwear. I told them that that doesn't count.
