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Tuesday, April 22, 2025

"Old Joe Clark" (General Information & Comments About This American Old Time Music/Bluegrass Music Song)

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series on the Old Time Music /Bluegrass Music tune & song "Old Joe Clark".

This post presents some general information and comments about the song/tune "Old Joe Clark". Some of these entries include lyrics for this song. 
This post also presents some general information and comments about the song/tune "Old Joe Clark".

The Addendum of this post presents some information about and examples of floating verses from "Old Joe Clark" that are found in some other American Old Time Music/Bluegrass Music songs.

The earliest sources for these songs suggest that Black Americans were the originators of a number of the early verses for "Old Joe Clark" and the other American Old Time Music/Bluegrass Music songs that include those verses. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/04/five-video-examples-of-old-time.html for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post showcases five YouTube video examples of the United States Old Time Music /Bluegrass Music tune & song "Old Joe Clark".

The content of this post is presented for historical, cultural, and entertainment purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE ABOUT MINSTREL SONGS
Since this pancocojams blog focuses on African American culture and other Black cultures throughout the world, I would like to share the reason why I'm publishing posts on 19th century minstrel songs.
 
My focus on 19th century minstrel songs in this pancocojams blog shouldn't be interpreted to mean that I believe that Black Americans composed these songs. 

However, I believe that some themes, terms, and some previously existing floating verses that Black Americans did compose (largely as Southern plantation secular dance/work songs) were taken from those sources by White composers and used in a number of minstrel songs. White men are named as the composers of those songs without any acknowledgement of those Black sources. 

I recognize those Black contributions through these posts and I also recognize that some blackfaced minstrels were Black Americans. The influence of Black Americans in minstrelsy extends from the United States South to music traditions in other parts of the world including Great Britain and South Africa. 

****
GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT "OLD JOE CLARK" 
The sources for these online quotes are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes online.

ONLINE SOURCE #1
From 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Joe_Clark

" "Old Joe Clark" is a US folk song, a mountain ballad that was popular among soldiers from eastern Kentucky during World War I and afterwards.[1] Its lyrics refer to a real person named Joseph Clark, a Kentucky mountaineer who was born in 1839 and murdered in 1885.[1][2] The "playful and sometimes outlandish verses" have led to the conjecture that it first spread as a children's song and via play parties.[3] There are about 90 stanzas in various versions of the song.[1] The tune is based on an A major scale in the Mixolydian mode, but moreover has definite hints of a complete blues scale, namely, the flatted 3rd and 5th.[4]

Although "Old Joe Clark" may have originated in the 19th century, no printed records are known from before 1900.[3] An early version was printed in 1918, as sung in Virginia at that time.[1]

"Old Joe Clark" has been described as "one of the most widely known of all Southern fiddle tunes [as of the late 20th century. ... It] has, to a degree, become part of the [United States] national repertory. One may hear it in bluegrass jam sessions, old-time fiddle sessions, and country dances throughout the United States."[3]

Gary Cooper sang several verses of this song in the 1945 western, “Along Came Jones”.

Lyrics

Fare-the-well Old Joe Clark, goodbye Mitsy Brow-owww-owwwn

Fare-the-well Old Joe Clark, I'm gonna leave this town

Old Joe Clark he had a house 16 stories high

and every story in that house was filled with chicken pie

I went down to Old Joe's house – never been there before

He slept on a feather bed, and I slept on the floor.

 

Refrain:

Round and around Old Joe Clark Round and around I say

Round and around Old Joe Clark. I hav'n't long to stay."...

****
ONLINE SOURCE #2
From https://www.balladofamerica.org/old-joe-clark/
"Old Joe Clark: About the Song

“Old Joe Clark” is an American fiddle tune that is well-known throughout the United States and other parts of the world. Many different verses and choruses have been sung to the tune. The song’s origins are unclear, as is the identity of Joe Clark himself, if the title did actually derive from a namesake. Various claims indicate that Joe Clark may have been a moonshiner in the Virginia hills, a veteran of the War of 1812, or a banjo player from Clay County, Kentucky.

Lyrics

chorus:

Round and round, old Joe Clarke

Round and round, I say

Round and round, old Joe Clarke

I ain’t got long to stay

 

Fare thee well, old Joe Clarke

Fare thee well, I say

He’d follow me ten thousand miles

To hear my fiddle play

 

verses:

Old Joe Clarke the preacher’s son

Preached all over the plain

The only text he ever used

Was high low jack and the game

 

I went down to old Joe’s house

Never been there before

He slept on the feather bed

And I slept on the floor

 

Old Joe Clarke he had a dog

As blind as he could be

Chased a redbug ’round a stump

And a coon up a hollow tree

 

Old Joe had a yellow cat

She would not sing or pray

She stuck her head in a buttermilk jar

And washed her sins away

 

I went down to old Joe’s house

Old Joe wasn’t at home

I ate up all of old Joe’s meat

And left old Joe the bone

 

I used to live on mountaintop

But now I live in town

I’m boarding at the big hotel

Courting Betsy Brown"

****
ONLINE SOURCE #3
From https://wmeamusic.org/files/2016/03/CMPtp2011_GenMus_OldJoeClark-Bartling.pdf
..."Title: Old Joe Clark Composer: Unknown: Folk song of 1860’s Instrumentation/Voicing: Unison singers/folk instruments

[...]

This plan was designed for Grade 5.

[...]

ANALYSIS

Broad Description:
Traditional Type/Genre: American Folk Song/Fiddle Tune Background: Old Joe Clark is one of the most widely know Southern fiddle tunes. It has to some degree become a part of the national folk repertoire. You can hear it in most old time fiddle jam sessions, many blue grass concerts, on multiple recordings, and at country dances across the nation. It has also become a children’s favorite with its fanciful verses and easy melody. 

[...]

This song has traveled all across the nation as a fiddle tune. It also has a tradition of being a children’s play party song. Children have sung it and made up their own verses for many years. Adults have sung it and created verses of their own as well.

[...]

Elements of Music

Form: Verse and Refrain. (AB form)

Rhythm: This arrangement is in 2/4. The two main rhythmic patterns are a steady eighth note pattern in the verse (A) section and a dotted eighth note- sixteenth note - quarter note pattern in the refrain (B) section.

Melody: Mixolydian mode. The Mixolydian scale, or mode, is the fifth of the seven musical modes. It is similar to the major scale except for the lowered seventh. The Mixolydian scale is the scale that appears when a major scale is played with the fifth note (fifth scale-degree) as the root. Thus, a C major scale played from "G" is a G Mixolydian scale. This is why the term "mode" is more appropriate than "scale".

[...]

Texture: Voice and accompaniment. This song is traditionally accompanied by guitar, fiddle, folk percussion (spoons, washboards etc.) banjo, string bass etc. The texture can vary depending on the group that is performing it. Expression: This song should be sung with a lively, joyful and even silly spirit. It is all about having fun and singing with humor. The verses can often be sung by a soloist or solo group. The refrain should be sung a little louder with an emphasis on a steady pulsing beat and the entire community of players and/or singers joining in on this repetitive portion.

Special Considerations: There are so many versions of this song that it is important to emphasize that a group of students may have had experience with a different version than what is being taught. A discussion on the folk tradition of passing songs along through the generations without written notation or verses has created so many different versions. Discuss how different parts of the country may sing it differently. Connecting this song to the social studies unit of pioneers and westward expansion can establish additional insights into the song.

Reasons to Perform this Song: - to learn an American folk song that is part of our American heritage - to learn the historical significance of the song - to improvise lyrics - to learn the rhythmic patterns that include a dotted eighth – sixteenth note pattern - to listen to a variety of versions of the song both vocal and instrumental - to perform on folk instruments - to compose a different verse using musical elements of dynamics and tempo.

Heart Statement: The heart of “Old Joe Clark” is its humorous, joyful feeling that is created by its rhythmic composition of dotted rhythms and improvised lyrics. The fact that individuals would create lyrics for the verses and the community would sing the refrain.

[...]

MUSIC SELECTION “Old Joe Clark” has stood the test of time. It has been sung and played for many generations and has become a part of our national repertoire. It has a rich history and has been performed by a great variety of instrumental and vocal groups. This song has a sense of community because it has been sung for years in a community setting at barn dances, around campfires, at fiddle concerts, folk concerts, and community singing events. Its great sense of fun and humor is appealing to both elementary students and adults. There is so much to teach in the piece including the instruments, melody, rhythms, history, and expression to name just a few. This song just sticks in your head and gets your foot tapping. Every time that I teach this song, I have students tell me that they love making up new verses and singing it to their families."...

****
ONLINE SOURCE #4
From https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=48624
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: old joe clark?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 02 - 05:24 PM

"A lot of songs have the meter of "Old Joe Clark-Liza Jane." One of these is known as the "The Gal From The South," which usually includes the line

"Old massa had a yaller gal,

He brung her from the south," etc.,

It includes this verse:

Old massa had a banjo,

Its strings were made of twine;

The only tune that I could play

Was "I wish that gal was mine."

"My Liza Jane" has these lines:

Saturday night and Sunday too, pretty gals on my mind;

Monday mornin' just 'fore day, white folks got me gwine,

White folks got me gwine, white folks got me gwine.

When I go to my gal's house and she is at home,

I lays myself back in de big arm cheer and picks on de old banjo,

And picks on de old banjo, and picks on de old banjo.

 

As I went down the new cut road, she went down de lane.

Was de last time I saw my true love, so go 'long, Liza Jane.

Go long, Liza Jane, go long Liza Jane.

 

Not what you want, but offered for comparison. From Newman L. White, American Negro Folk Songs. The chorus you offer is common to several versions of Old Joe Clark (in Lomax, etc.) but not with verses suggesting slavery or playing the banjo.

 

In Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, is the verse:

I had a banjo made of gourd,

The strings was made of twine,

But the only tune that I could play

Was I wish that gal was mine.

 

No verses in Randolph suggest slavery; this one, also from Randolph, suggests prison:

 

Old Joe Clark is dead and gone, I hope he's a'doin' well,

He made me wear the ball and chain,

An' it made my ankles swell.

 

No other verses with this fragment collected in 1930."

****
ONLINE SOURCE #5
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=25394

1.
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune?
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Sep 00 - 01:38 PM

"Is Old Joe Clark the complete and typical example of a folk song/tune?

I have heard it played and sung many times. I don't think I have ever heard it played exactly the same twice. As for the words, there appears to be so many different ones, that it is a surprise if you hear ones you know. You don't really expect to hear a familiar version.

Why is it so popular and is it the song/tune with the most versions?"

**
2.
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 14 Sep 00 - 02:27 PM

"...just my opinion...but

Old Joe Clark is extremely easy to play (with a noter) on the dulcimer. I suspect it is the quintessential beginners song. Thus, with all of us beginners playing it and feeling like we are really keeping up with the real players/performers, it probably gets bastardized a lot.

 

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong!"

**
3.
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM

"Old Joe Clark goes back a long ways (pub. 1842, "Nursery Rhymes," Halliwell) and probably older.

'Joe Clark' cannot be referred or traced to anyone, no connections can be made.

I prefer this one:

Old Joe Clark is a preacher,

He preached all over the plain,

The highest text he ever took

Was high, low, jack and the game!

 

(Randolph, Ozark Folk-Songs, vol. 3, p. 124. Many verses, everyone has contributed over the years).

 

See the threads, esp. 25394 and 48624.

 

Old Joe Clark 25394

Old Joe Clark 48624

 
**
4.
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 11:16 AM

"I picked up a copy of Mother Goose Rhymes, and there were the same words used in Old Joe Clark, Little Liza Jane, Whoa, Mule, Whoa, etc.. Which came first? The chicken or the egg?"

**
5. 
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune?
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 06:19 PM

"The earliest reference I've seen to the tune/song is from the "Asheville [N.C.] Daily Citizen" of July 8, 1892:

 “At night, the banjos were brought out, and to the strains of ‘Old Joe Clarke’ and ‘Pretty Little Liza Jane’ and ‘I’m gwine down to town,’ the puncheons resounded to the tread of the ‘dancers dancing in tune.’”

**
6.
Subject: RE: Old Joe Clark. THE folk song/tune?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 03:23 AM

"Guest: “Which came first? Chicken or the egg?”

 Rooster.


Eliza Jane; Lucy Long; Old Joe and Pomp (Pompey) were all stock minstrel characters pretty much from the start (c.1840.)

 “Many are the verses and variations to Liza Jane, but "Old Joe Clark" is the banner song for length. "There are one hundred and forty-four verses to 'Old Joe Clark,' though I don't know all of them," modestly affirmed a popular "caller" in Nolan County.”

46. OLD JOE CLARK.

Old Joe Clark is dead and gone,

I hope he's doin well(1)

He made me wear the ball and chain

Till it made my ankles swell.

 

Chorus—

 

Round and round, old Joe Clark,

Round and round, I say;

Round and round, old Joe Clark,

I ain't got long to stay.

 

Eighteen pounds of meat a week,

Bacon (candy) here to sell,

How can a young man stay at home,

When the gals all look so well.

 

Old Joe Clark had a big white house,

Sixteen stories high,

And every room in that old house

Was filled with chicken pie.

 

Old Joe Clark is mad at me,

I'll tell you the reason why,

I went down to old Joe's house

And ate all his chicken pie."...

[Thompson, Stith, ed., Some Texas Party-Play Songs, Publications of the Folk-Lore Society of Texas, No.1, (Austin, 1916, p.32)]"

****

ADDENDUM: ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ABOUT & EXAMPLES OF SOME FLOATING VERSES THAT MAY BE FOUND IN EXAMPLES OF "OLD JOE CLARK" AND IN SOME OTHER AMERICAN FOLK SONGS 

[DEFINITION OF "FLOATING VERSES" from Google Results (AI)
"In the context of folk and blues music, "floating verses" or "floating lyrics" refer to verses (or stanzas) that appear in multiple songs, often with slight variations, but sharing a common theme or idea. These verses are not bound to a specific song and can be freely borrowed and adapted by different singers and communities.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

Borrowed and Adapted:

Floating verses are like musical building blocks that are taken from one song and reconfigured into another.

Common Themes:

They often express shared experiences or emotions, making them recognizable across different songs.

Tradition-Steeped:

In traditional blues and folk music, singers often have a vast repertoire of floating verses readily available."]...

****
FOLK SONG EXAMPLES
These entries are given in no particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only

1. 
From http://www.ceolas.org/cgi-bin/ht2/ht2-fc2/file=/tunes/fc2/fc.html&style=&refer=&abstract=&ftpstyle=&grab=&linemode=&max=250?old+joe+clark

"FINGER RING. AKA and see "I Wish't I Had a New Five Cents," "New Five Cents." Old-Time, Breakdown/ Song. USA, Oklahoma. D Major. ADAE. AABB. Originally from African-American tradition. Source for notated version: R.E. Perkins (Sequoyah County, Oklahoma) [Thede].

***

I would not have a yeller gal, I'll tell you the reason why,

She'd blow her nose on yeller corn bread and call it pumpkin pie.

***

Refrain

Wish't I had a finger ring (or, new five cents),

Wish't I had a dime;

Wish't I had a finger ring (new five cents),

To give that gal of mine.

***
I would not have a yeller gal, I'll tell you the reason why,

Her neck's so long and yeller I'm afraid she'd never die.

***

Mawsy had a yeller gal, brought her from the South,

Her mouth looked like an old fireplace with the ashes all raked out.

***

Mawsy had an old gray mare I know her mighty well,

If she ever jumps in my corn patch she'd better jump in hell.

***

Mawsy had an old blind horse, he calls him Bawly Sam,

Every tooth in his old head is sixteen inches round.

****

(See "Old Joe Clark," "Old Dan Tucker" for similar floating verses, also the song "Raise a Ruckus (Roughhouse) Tonight")

Thede (The Fiddle Book), 1967; pg. 67."

-snip-
I found this quote while searching for information about the song "Old Joe Clark".
"yeller gal" = a light skin Black woman

"Mawsy" = a referent for a White woman (such as the Master's wife], in this song "Mawsy" can mean the same thing as "Missy".
-snip-
Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbcU4vQT2j4 "New Five Cents"

Walt Koken, Apr 26, 2022

"There are several versions of this tune out there, some by a different name, but this one, a three part tune, is one of our favorites."

****
2.
From 
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=15777
Subject: Lyr Add: BOIL DEM CABBAGE DOWN
From: Stewie
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 03:34 AM

"For the purposes of comparison, here are 2 of the earliest recorded versions of the song. Fiddlin' John Carson's was the first version recorded - in 1924. Although 'Dem' is retained in the title of the song, Fiddlin' John definitely sings 'them'. However, the 'dem', the 'master', the 'yella girl' and the taking of the wife to 'New Orleans' (John was a Georgian chicken farmer) would seem to betray the song's minstrel/medicine show and black tradition connections. Carson's version was a reasonably sedate affair, accompanied only by his fiddle. Earl Johnson's version, recorded in 1927, is a much more spirited hoedown treatment - and it has totally different verses.

As an instrumental, 'Bile dem cabbage down' was part of the countryman's common stock - black and white - of traditional music that also included tunes like 'Old Hen Cackle', 'Turkey in the Straw', 'Sourwood Mountain', 'Leather Britches', 'Keep My Skillet Good and Greasy' and dozens of others. Clayton McMichen, the 'reluctant hillbilly' and member of the Skillet Lickers', said he won the national fiddle championship 16 times playing the tune. Evidently, he would improvise on the melody like a jazz soloist or modern bluegrasser. Some later fiddlers absorbed part of his improvisations as a normal part of the tune.

 

Anyhow, here are the lyrics of the 2 earliest recordings of the piece as a song. Like all transcriptions of early 78s, they are tentative and subject to correction by other ears - but I have done my best with the equipment at my disposal. Both are very different from that in the DT.

 

Cheers, Stewie.

BOIL DEM CABBAGE DOWN

Boil them cabbage down

Boil them cabbage down

The only tune that I can sing

Boil them cabbage down

 

Master had a little mule

And he called him silent slick

That mule it had such dreamy eyes

But how that mule could kick

 

Quit that ticklin' me

Quit that ticklin' me

Mule go away you let me be

And quit that ticklin' me

 

Feet was light as a feather

Face was made of lead

Mule's (?) kick you feel so quick

Land you on your head

 

Boil them cabbage down

Boil them cabbage down

The only tune that I can sing

Boil them cabbage down

 

Whisky by the gallon

Sugar by the pound

Great big bowl to put it in

Spoon to stir it around

 

Quit that ticklin' me

Quit that ticklin' me

Mule go away you let me be

And quit that ticklin' me

 

Wouldn't marry a yella girl

I'll tell you the reason why

She'd get up the very next morning

Be sure to tell a lie

 

Boil them cabbage down

Boil them cabbage down

The only tune that I can sing

Boil them cabbage down

 

If I had a scolding wife

I'd whup her sure as she's born

Tear her down to New Orleans

Trade her off for corn

 

Quit that ticklin' me

Quit that ticklin' me

Mule go away you let me be

And quit that ticklin' me

 

Now I got no money

Got no place to stay

Got nowhere to lay my head

Chicken a-crowin' for day

 

Quit that ticklin' me

Quit that ticklin' me

Mule go away you let me be

And quit that ticklin' me

 

Fiddlin' John Carson 73040-A-OK 40306 New York 18 December 1924. Reissued on Fiddlin' John Carson 'Complete Recorded Works Vol II' Document DOCD 8015.

 

BOIL DEM CABBAGE DOWN

 

Boil them cabbage down

Turn them hoecakes around

The only tune that I can play

Is boil them cabbage down

 

I went up on the mountain

(It is not known around) (?) Put me in a coffee pot

Blowed me through the spout

 

Boil them …

 

I asked that girl to marry me

She said she'd see me later

She mashed my nose all over my face

Like a great big hard potato

 

Boil them …

 

Wish I had a nickel

Wish I had a dime

Wish I had a redhaired girl

And I could call her mine

 

Boil them …

 

Wish I had a wide (?) brim hat

Push it in the crown

Go to see some pretty little girl

And turn my damper down

 

Boil them …

 

Greenback in my pocket

Whisky when I'm dry

If I come drunk and ragged

I'll live until I die

 

Boil them …

 

Earl Johnson and His Dixie Entertainers 80265-A-OK 45112 23 March 1927 Atlanta Georgia.Reissued on Earl Johnson 'Complete Recorded Works Vol I' Document DOCD 8005."

2. 

Subject: Lyr Add: BOIL THEM CABBAGE DOWN
From: Les B
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 09:10 PM

...Some of the verses to "Bile them..." seem to float between it and "Old Joe Clark" ....

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This concludes Part I of this pancocojams series.

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