Translate

Thursday, March 14, 2024

Bo Diddley -"Say Man" : A 1959 Example Of Snapping (Playing The Dozens)


Carlos Rasool, Oct 23, 2010

****
Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series about the slang meanings of the English word "snap".

This post showcases Bo Diddley's 1959 recording "Say Man" as a 1959 example of "snapping" (playing the dozens).  The lyrics to that record are included in this post along with selected comments from the discussion thread of this YouTube sound file.

The Addendum to this post presents an excerpt of a 2023 online article about playing the dozens.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2024/03/what-oh-snap-means-online-article.html for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post presents the meanings of the exclamation "Oh Snap!".

The content of this post is presented for cultural, entertainment, and linguistic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Bo Diddley and Jerome Green for their musical legacies and thanks to all others who were associated with this record. Thanks to the publisher of this recording on YouTube and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.   

****
LYRICS - "SAY MAN"

(Bo Diddley, 1959)

[Verse]

Say man, what's that boy?

I want to tell you about your girlfriend

What about my girl?

Well, you don't look strong enough to take the message

I'm strong enough

I might hurt your feelings

My feelings are already hurt by being here with you

Well, I was walking down the street with your girl the other day

Ah, ha

And the wind was blowing real hard

Is that right?

And the wind blew her hair into my face

Ah, ha

You know what else happened?

What happened?

The wind blew her hair into her face

Yeah?

And we went a little further, you wanna hear the rest of it?

I might as well

The wind blew her hair into the street

Okay, since you told me about my girl

I'm going to tell you about yours

I was walking down the street with your girl

Yes?

I took her home, for a drink, you know

Took her home?

Yeah, just for a drink

Oh

But that chick looked so ugly

She had to sneak up on the glass to get a drink of water

You've got the nerve to call somebody ugly

Why, you so ugly, the stork

That brought you in the world oughta be arrested

That's alright, my momma didn't have to put a sheet

On my head so sleep could slip up on me

Look a here

What's that?

Where are you from?

South America

What's that?

South America

You don't look like no South American to me

I'm still from South America

What part?

South Texas

Where are your working boots at?

I've got them on

There aren't no boots you got on, those broguettes

Hey, look a here

What's that?

I've bin trying to figure out what you is

I already figured out what you is

What's that?

You that thing I throw peanuts at

Look a here

What's that?

You should be ashamed of yourself

Why?

Calling people ugly

I didn't call you ugly

What you say?

I said you was ruined, that's all

You know something?

What?

You look like you've bin whooped with a ugly stick

Hey, I haven't got nothing to do with it but I beat the fellah, right

About [this record]
"In “Say Man” Bo Diddley plays the dozens, a game in which two people competitively trade insults with each other while rhyming, with his percussionist over one of his trademark beats."

online source for lyrics and "about" quote: https://genius.com/Bo-diddley-say-man-lyrics
-snip-
Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Diddley for information about Bo Diddley (Ellas Otha Bates (December 30, 1928 – June 2, 2008).

Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Green for information about Jerome Greene (c. 1934 – c. 1973)

****
SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THE DISCUSSION THREAD OF THIS YOUTUBE SOUND FILE

Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45ZdKCFFR3I

1. @hammrtim1, 2014
"Origins of rap right here."

**
Reply
2. @abelramirez7320, 2017
"I didn't know that scoring on someone went back this far in time lol"

**
Reply
3. @andikay71, 2019
"and much farther Abel"

**
Reply
4. @GereDJ2, 2016
"I my day, it was known as a "chop session"."

**
Reply
5. @jamescullen622, 2020
"In case anybody was wondering (I was), the other guy in the rap was Jerome Green, Diddley's maracas player, and it was improvised during a recording session in 1959."

**
Reply
6. @tonyrodriguez8990, 2020
"This was our RAPPING in the 50s, clean and fun."

**
Reply
7. @neilhaverstick1446, 2022
"
I grew up in the slums of St Louie in the 1950's...this is the dozens, the roots of rap. Jazz and blues musicians are good with the insults as well, ha."

**
@mrmaxxx94, 2020
8. "Pre Hip Hop and this cut is crazy funny and a real battle,real talk
**
Reply
9. @robertorick6383, 2023
"In the ghetto streets of Chicago and Detroit, these playful insults are called "Playing The Dozens", or "Yo Mama" jokes."

**
Reply
10. @mrmaxxx94, 2023
"@robertorick6383  I'm a black man and well aware of that. We called it jonesing as well. If you read what I said I Said pre hip hop where cats would case om folks"

**
Reply
11. @robertorick6383, 2023
"@mrmaxxx94  I know . I heard it a lot in high school, as the high school I went to was 50% black, and 35% Mexican-American (in the city of Pontiac, no less.) Saying "your mama" or "yo mama" was considered funny to 14-year old classmates. The teachers didn't think it was amusing as they were teaching us that saying things about someone's mother was racist. It was all a learning experience. Still, for a 65 year old record, "Say Man" is still funny."

**
Reply
12. @mrmaxxx94, 2023
" @robertorick6383  we bagged on each other left and right. It was some great lines and disses."

**
13. @jacobmcgrath7698, 2015
"50s rap battle lmfao"

**
Reply
14. @MRLein93, 2015
"Bunker Jokes They're playing the Dozens, rap comes from the same game."

**

15. @PsyVen, 2020
"Doin' the Dozens! Bo SHOULD have had more National Top 40 hits than this one, but I'm glad he and Jerome put together this hilarious, rockin' tune. May they rest in peace."

**
16. @ethanhill9460, 2021
"Oh SNAP."

**
17. @marxlover100, 2022
"There were two Bo sequels to this insult war of a song. The first was "Say Man Back Again" and the third was called "Signifyin' Blues".

-snip-
African Americans in different regions of the United States have used and continue to use a number of different terms for these types of insult exchanges and/or the insults themselves. This compilation from that "Say Ma" discussion thread includes these terms (numbered in order of their appearance in these selected comments)

1. "scoring on someone"
2. chop session 
3. the dozens
4. playing the dozens; "yo mama" jokes
5.  jonesing 
6. bagged on each other [bagging on...]
-snip-
Other terms that have been used and are still used for "playing the dozens" is "snapping", "dissing", "ripping on" [someone], "casing on" [someone[, and signifying, 

Additions and corrections are welcome along with information about where (what city, state, or region in the USA and where outside of the USA) these terms or comparable terms are used.

****

ARTICLE EXCERPT- THE DOZENS: THE ART OF TENDER TRASH TALK
written by Aryol Prater, Research Specialist for Black Play and Culture

February 3, 2023
" “Your breath smells like camel spit and urine samples,” exclaimed one of my dearest friends at the top of his lungs, as a group of our friends walked to the local pool, in the summer of 2002. While the rest of our crew was caught up in the rapture of laughter at what might be the best roast I have received to this day, the challenge of a response weighed upon me. Timing was everything in these engagements. The right words could shift the power dynamic of the group for the day. While I do not recall my retort—something about his head shape resembling a fast-food item—I remember the reaction did not come close to matching the original uproar from our friends. Mike remained our top roaster and unofficial leader that day. Though we had witnessed our elder siblings and cousins engaged in this behavior, unbeknownst to our cadre of “cappers” we were practicing a tradition that linked us to the continent of our origin. The name of the game varies by region, but roastin’, flamin’, choppin’, cappin,’ rankin’ etc., stem from the play exercise by the name of “the dozens.”

There are as many theories about the origins of the term “the dozens” as there are theories about the origins of the game. One prevailing theory states that the basic structure of the dozens originated in West Africa and made its way to the Americas via the Atlantic slave trade. It further suggests the game was intended to prepare youth for societal stress by offering tools to respond to insult without anger. “The dozens” is most historically accessible by way of “Yo’ Mama.” Allow me to assure the readers who are conversant in this art that I did not intend this as a slight to their respective mothers. Rather, I speak of “Yo’ Mama” as a scaffolding for jokes that range from claims of excessive frugality to the more vulgar assertions about virtue.

Regardless of subject matter the framing of the joke enables a rapid-fire exchange and requires less creativity. Instead, opponents spar more like a fencing match. Each player recites jokes that have a history of success. Each blow is either successfully deflected by producing laughter that matches or surpasses the preceding joke, or the match concludes. In 2005, the Wayans Brothers converted these verbal volleys into a trading card game.

[…]

A couple of decades removed from the huddle of pained sides, and tears of laughter wiped away, I hope Mike can hear the echo of the joy he offered us that day. Adding this game to The Strong’s collection feels like an invitation to all the roasters, cappers, and flamers of my youth, as well as the generations of dozens player before us."

****
This concludes Part I of this pancocojams series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

No comments:

Post a Comment