mtcalverypb, Mar 9, 2010
The Mount Calvary Primitive Baptist Association October 2009
which was held at Pleasant Grove Primitive Baptist Church. Our Next Session
will be held at County Line Primitive Baptist Church on HWY 212 in
Milledgeville, GA beginning Friday before the 1st Sunday in October 2010.
Moderator: Elder Tony Goggins
Clerk: Deacon Adolphus Williams
-snip-
This song is called "You better Run To The City Of Refuge". Click https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/dr.-cJ-johnson-lyrics/you-better-run-lyrics.html for the lyrics of a Black Gospel version of that song as sung by Dr, CJ Johnson. .
****
Edited by Azizi Powell
Latest revision- March 23, 2023
This pancocojams post is part of an ongoing pancocojams series on Old School Black Gospel Music.
This post provides some information about the Primitive Baptist (Christian denomination as well as some information and comments about African American Primitive Baptist churches singing, hand clapping, foot stomping, and ring shout-like worship traditions.
This post also showcases three YouTube video of an African American Primitive Baptist Church congregation in Georgia (United States) singing four old Gospel songs.
In addition, some comments from several YouTube discussion threads for videos showcasing this worship tradition are also included in this post.
The content of this post is presented for historical, religious, cultural, and aesthetic purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to the unknown composers of the two songs that are featured in this embedded video and other songs that were/are sung by African American Primitive Baptist Church members.
Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publishers of these video on YouTube.
-snip-
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2013/05/african-american-ring-shouts-origins for a pancocojams post to compare this African American Primitive Baptist Church tradition with ring shouts.
****
SHOWCASE VIDEO #2- Look Where He Brought Me From
KATHY PHELPS, Apr 28, 2011 Easter Sunday 2011 Mt. Carmel Primitive Baptist Church, Ideal, GA -snip- Notice how the members of the congregation sometimes rock around the table in the center of the front of the church.
*****
SHOWCASE VIDEO #3-WALKING IN JERUSALEM JUST LIKE JOHN
KATHY PHELPS, Nov 7, 2011
Mt. Ramah Primitive Baptist Association 2011 Thomaston, GA
****
INFORMATION ABOUT PRIMITIVE BAPTIST CHURCHES
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_Baptists
"Primitive Baptists – also known as Hard Shell Baptists, Foot
Washing Baptists or Old School Baptists – are conservative Baptists adhering to
a degree of Calvinist beliefs who coalesced out of the controversy among
Baptists in the early 19th century over the appropriateness of mission boards,
tract societies, and temperance societies.[2][3] Primitive Baptists are a
subset of the Calvinistic Baptist tradition.[1] The adjective
"primitive" in the name is used in the sense of
"original".[2]
History
The controversy over whether churches or their members
should participate in mission boards, Bible tract societies, and temperance
societies led the Primitive Baptists to separate from other general Baptist
groups that supported such organizations, and to make declarations of
opposition to such organizations in articles like the Kehukee Association
Declaration of 1827.[3][4] The Kehukee Primitive Baptist Church released a
proclamation that they rejected formal service institutions outside of the
church…
[…]
Primitive Baptist churches arose in the mountainous regions of the American South, where they are found in their greatest numbers.[9][10]
African-American Primitive Baptist groups have been considered a unique category of Primitive Baptist. Approximately 50,000 African Americans are affiliated with African-American Primitive Baptist churches as of 2005.[11] Approximately 64,000 people were affiliated (as of 1995) with Primitive Baptist churches in the various other emergences of Primitive Baptists.[11]
Since arising in the 19th century, the influence of Primitive Baptists has waned as "Missionary Baptists became the mainstream".[4]
[…]
Distinct practices
Primitive Baptist practices that are distinguishable from
those of other Baptists include a cappella singing, family integrated worship,
and foot washing.
A cappella singing
Primitive Baptists generally do not play musical instruments
as part of their worship services.[15] They believe that all church music
should be a cappella because there is no New Testament command to play
instruments, but only to sing.[14] Further, they connect musical instruments in
the Old Testament with "many forms and customs, many types and shadows,
many priests with priestly robes, many sacrifices, festivals, tithings"
that they see as having been abolished; "had they been needed in the
church Christ would have brought them over".[14]
African-American Primitive Baptists may not share the
general Primitive Baptist opposition to musical instruments, however.[16]”…
-snip-
There are a few YouTube videos of American Primitive Baptist churches whose congregations are White Americans.
"Rocking" (around a table in the front of the church or standing in place at the front of the church isn't a worship style in these churches. These congregations' song choices also appear to be different and their style of singing is different.
Click https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiIZ0kgn588 Old Harp Singing, Cades Cove Primitive Baptist Church, published by GreatSmokyMountains, August 20, 2013 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_lYxMdYt84 10,000 Reasons (Primitive Baptist Singing), published by Vestavia Primitive Baptist Church, Jan 4, 2018 for two examples of YouTube videos of White American Primitive Baptist churches.
****
DISCLAIMER:
I'm not a member of a Primitive Baptist church and I have never attended any Primitive Baptist church. All of the information in this pancocojams post has been gleaned from online sources. Additions and corrections are very welcome.
"Rocking" and "Macon Rock" are terms that have been used to describe the way that African American Primitive Baptist congregations used to* sway from side to side while they sing their old Gospel songs.
These old Gospel songs date from the late 19th century or the early 20th century. These Gospels songs which are also called "Jubilees" were/are sung a Capella without any musical instruments (including no tambourines), no microphones, and no choirs or separate praise and worship groups.*
These three videos document some of the African American Primitive Baptist's tradition of singing congregational call & response songs without any musical instrument accompaniment.
By "congregational call and response" I mean that those songs are started spontaneously and are sung by the entire congregation with more than one leader/caller.) In these videos, while singing these songs a number of members of the congregation move in a circle in a ring shout -like manner at the front of the church. As shown in the video that is given as Example #2 in this post, sometimes these church members circle a table with a white cloth that is placed in the center of the front of the church. These men and women walk single file, singing, stomping their feet, and clapping their hands in 2 & 4 pattern, or clapping their church fan into the palm of their hands. This walk includes a slight dip to the song's beat.
Alternatively, a number of members of these congregations may "rock" (sway from side to side) while standing in place while singing these songs. This stand in place worship tradition may have started some years after the first tradition that is described above, perhaps replacing the ring-shout like movements because of the lack of space at the front of the church's altar.
The members of the church who participate in the stand in place rocking style of praise and worship also clap their hands in 2 & 4 and/or double clap patterns and stomp their feet to the 2 & 4 beat to produce a bass like sound.
*I don't know if any African American Primitive Baptist churches still worship the way that is shown in these two embedded YouTube videos. More recent YouTube videos that I have watched of African American Primitive Baptist churches show those churches having a choir, electronic microphones, and musical instruments (snare drums, piano, and electric guitars). Those contemporary videos also don't show members of those congregations doing the ring shout-like "rocking" at the front of the altar. Furthermore, the songs in the videos of contemporary African American Primitive Baptist churches aren't examples of old school call & response songs.
****
SELECTED COMMENTS ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICAN PRIMITIVE BAPTIST SINGING, HAND CLAPPING, AND ROCKING (SWAYING FROM SIDE TO SIDE OR MOVING IN A CIRCLE IN FRONT OF THE ALTAR WHILE SINGING OLD GOSPEL SONGS
These comments are given in no particular order. Numbers are added for referencing purposes only.
Discussion thread #1
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCUd19FgZFs "We Will Wait Til Jesus Comes". published by Kathy Phelps, Nov 7, 2011
Mt. Ramah Primitive Baptist Association 2011 Thomaston, GA
1. Antuane Perkins, 2014
"My God My God! This is the type singing that I love! You sit
there for as long as you can and you get so Spiritually full that you have to
stand up and let the spirit work on you."
**
2. Karen G., 2015
"every time I watch this video I love it more and more! y'all better SANG! Praise your HOLY NAME LORD"
-snip-
"Sang" is an African American Vernacular English present tense form of the word "sing" which means "to sing very well, especially to sing soulfully very well". "Sang" or "Sangin' can be a verb. "Sang!" can also be an exhortation.
**
3. Connie Kent, 2016
"I am a Holy Ghost filled born again Christian but I am truly
ignorant to this style of worship... can anyone tell me more about this?"
**
Reply
4. kamaliyah, 2016
"praise and worship."
**
Reply
5. K J, 2016
"this is how our parents on the slave plantations sung and
worshipped in the fields gathered around in a circle by the water, fast forward
to now what you see here"
"Sing your heart out and let the holy ghost fill
you till you eneter extacy. The only one judging is god, no matter how you sing
it just makes god happy that you sing his name. <3"
**
7. mary oyewole, 2016
"I remember this from a child in the primitive baptist church. please keep these recordings alive."
**
8. Shay Barnes, 2018
"Hand clapping, feet stomping church! My kind of carrying
on!!"
**
9.. Ellijah Raines, 2018
"Yes Lord!! Churches has gotten away from this!"
**
10. John Nightshade, 2019
"Reminds me of my grandfather's congregation in Kentucky when
I was little boy. People shouting and
old folks swaying back and forth while the Holy Spirit moved through the
building. I miss those days when church
was church, farmers came in from the
fields to give thanks to the Lord while the older ladies were cooking and
singing in the back."
**
11. Linda Bowens, 2020
"Would love to be in the circle praising God right along with
them. This is what ya call having a good time, you didn't worry about getting
out of service because you wanted to stay in the service. They take their time
in worshipping. If we as nation do this, I truly believe things will change for
us. Worship and having faith 🙏🏼❣️"
**
12. Miss SoftnSensual, 2022
"Reminds me of the old days at church with my great aunts. Foot stomping, clapping, and sanging along with the deacon's and mother's of the church during devotion.🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾"
**
13. nghtwtchr9, 2023
"A lot of contemporary gospel sounds good and has a positive
message, but something about the old school gospel that is truly anointed and
uplifting no matter when you hear it today, tomorrow or even years later."
****
Discussion thread #2
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKBhKHxBMQo
1. Chandra Carter, 2017
"I love this! Rocking without music just hand clapping and
foot stomping and GOD"
Discussion thread #3
Mt. Ramah Primitive Baptist Association 2011 Thomaston, GA
"I love this! You can tell the spirit of
the HolyGhost was with them. The best part was that they didn't have no
instrument at all."
**
2 .june briggs, 2013
"All primitive baptist rock up front of the church circling the table,
just something we do!"
**
3. Ashley Bailey-Harrell, 2013
"This is what I grew up on as a child. My
grandmother and all my family attended Mt Moriah Primitive (HardShell) Baptist
St. Petersburg Florida. They would have prayer meeting at her house and
"rock" all night long!..Mattie, Lucille, Camilla, Hattie, Annie,
Georgia..I know y'all rocking right now!..My grandmother favorite song was
"I'm a solider"..Elder Snead sung it at her funeral way back in
1987. Keep posting this is good!"
4. James Williams, 2013
"Takes me back to Waynesboro, Ga. to Third Chapel MBC when my Great-grandmother used to sing in the choir!!! Man those was the days when it was chuch (Not church)........Chuch!!!!! Amen and Amen!!! We serve and AWESOME GOD!!!!"
**
Reply
5. k. 2021
"This is no Choir, no Drums, no Organ, No Piano, no Tamberine, just pure
hands voice and feet. WHO said your church can't have CHURCH without
Instruments. Tha Devil is a liar. This is the best church service I've seen
yet,,,I been with Primitive Baptist 19 years, Baptist 3 and Holiness 12,,, but
I want the pure church service,,,DO Anyone watching see Any Competition, Too
loud, Rolling eyes, Mic Hungry, Music too loud, And more NOPE. All in one place
on one accord. That's why that generation LIVED long"
6. Smoochz1, 2014
"Love the primintiive baptist, no more here in Columbus Ohio, but my parents belong to Prospect In Buena Vista Georgia grew up praising God just like this. "
**
Reply
7. Gregory Thornton, 2018
"Smoochz1 I am from Ellaville, GA live in Memphis, TN now can't get this here"
**
8. BlkRose, 2014
"Good ole Primitive Baptist church
singing ,stumping, and rocking"
**
9. Shirletha Anderson, 2015
"I Love this song reminds me of down home
singing in S. C."
Reply
10. Brent James, 2019
"South Carolina Yes Lord"
11. mookkers decausey, 2016
"thats old school praising lol we didnt have a organ or durmmm or a bass we had hands and feet and a voice and a memory
12. Rox Smith, 2016
"I love to watch Deacon Phelps do his holy rock!"
**
13. Mz Hollywood, 2018
**
14. caldonia lewis, 2019
"There's a meaning in every old school song, why churches don't sing these songs anymore. I love old school songs. My soul is a witness for my Lord, HALLEUJAH ! Thank you Jesus. Sing saints of The Most High God sing!🙏🏾😍✝🌹👼🏽💯"
**
15. Dee Harrison, 2019
"I pray that one day we can go back to
these old ways. They understood the power of The Most High, they knew where to
put their trust, love, dependency come he'll or high waters. To submit to The
Lord in spirit and in truth. My heart
aches to go back to the old landmark where we stayed in The Presence of The
Lord🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾"
-snip-
"The Old Landmark" is a title of an old school Gospel song. I believe that it also can refer to these types of old school African American Gospel songs.
**
16. Jeffery Hall, Jr,, 2020
"🗣THIS HAS BROUGHT BACK MEMORIES
OF MY GRANNY!!! She would sing a verse of this song over and over when I was a
kid and I still remember!!!! 😍"
17. Linda Bowens, 2020
**
18. Jaye Johnson, 2020
"I grew up Baptist in the North and never heard of Primitive Baptist but I love it❤️"
****
Discussion thread #4
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMuEWqraMTw "Elder Nathan Rolle--This May Be My Last Time", published by Kathy Phelps, Nov 11, 2010
"Sometime it's good to back home. Cause it may be the last time. The circle and rock could be a way of being
in the number and become a part of the praise. As today's waving . A church
back then could ROCK!"
Reply
2.
"Yes, the macon rock as my mom calls it. She's from macon. Ga"
**
3. Aunt Yo, 2015
"Anyone know why they circle in the front?"
**
Reply
4. Elder Maxwell Cotton, 2015
"they go around in a circle rocking"
**
Reply
5. PatsBooks, 2016
"It's the ring shout."
**
Reply
6. mssmmns, 2019
"This form of praise in a circle is prevalent in many West
African, Caribbean, and South Carolina Gullah religious ceremonies. This our
roots, sis!"
**
7. Ann Jones, 2019
"An old Deacon used to sing this at my Grandmother’s Church ,
I sure miss this kind of Service"
**
8. Chris Beatty, 2019
"We use to sing this in church when I was younger. I haven’t
heard it in a while unless one of the older members, or preacher, starts to
sings it. I was raised in in the Baptist way that we had musical instruments
for the accompaniment, but this church is rocking it too. We get into it too
because it may be our last time...we just don’t know it."
**
9. Lorenzo Moore, 2020
"My old overseer used to sing this. She was from SC."
**
Reply
10. Martin Smith,2020
"Well South Carolina is where much of the African part of us
still remains due to the Gullah Geechee people. This song and the “ring shout”
like movement makes me think they’re part of the reason this movement/style has
been somewhat preserved and your overseer probably grew on this and it’s
something that’s familiar for him or her"
****
Discussion thread #5
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGnjpkUlZDY&t=37s "Walking In Jerusalem Just Like John", published by Kathy Phelps, Nov. 7, 2011
Mt. Ramah Primitive Baptist Association 2011 Thomaston, GA
"Grew up Primitive Baptist. This takes me back. No instruments needed; just hands, voices,
and feet to praise God."
**
2. donald frierson,2017
"This reminds me of growing up in Green view First Baptist
Church when an elderly man or woman would get up singing and the church just
falls in behind. This is straight from
Africa here. Of course, we are to modern
now and many churches don't have signing like this."
**
3. Bruce Dexter,2022
"Hi. There are many different varieties of Primitive
Baptists. In urban areas where I grew up my cousins were PB..National Primitive
Baptist Convention USA and they Did use musical instruments, had many Choirs and usually were the top
members of Choir Unions. What differentiated them from Missionary Baptists was
their Foot Washing at The Lord's Supper. They had tons of a capella Hymn lining
and singing but also Gospel Singing with instruments. There really is nothing
wrong with that. The 150th Psalm is all about Praise giving God All including
with cymbals, string
instruments..All..so it is Biblically okay to do so . We can choose not to as
well and that is to be respected but the Primitive Baptists on my family choose
to use it all. I am a musician and if God Blessed me with a talent how can I
reject it?"
****
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