The Blue Vein Society & The Brown Paper Bag Test: For Light Skinned People Only (YouTube video & comments)

Ti's Hot Mess History, Feb 7, 2022

If you have ever had even a surface level conversation about blacks in The United States of America, chances are that you have heard of the brown paper bag test or the paper bag test. Very briefly, in case you haven’t heard of it…

The brown paper bag test is an early 1900’s discriminatory practice that blacks used against other blacks - in which an individual’s skin tone is compared to the color of a brown paper bag.  One was said to pass the test by having a skin tone that matched the hue of the paper bag or was lighter than the paper bag. What did passing the test mean? Access to privileges. Those privileges could be anything from gaining membership to sororities, fraternities and other social clubs to gaining admission to schools and even churches. Definitely not an example of black people at our finest hour.

But today, I want to discuss the black and partially black people who opened the door that allowed the paper bag test to become a reality. The lighter black Americans who used the brown paper bag test as a tactic to distance themselves from darker black Americans actually had a predecessor group of light complexion blacks, biracials, mulattos, quadroons and octoroons who prided themselves on THEIR proximity to whiteness; and saw dark complexioned black as inferior.  The pre-brown paper bag testing group was called the Blue Vein Society. As their name suggests, they delighted in having skin that was so white, that their blue veins could be seen through it. And they wanted absolutely nothing to do with other blacks whose veins were concealed by their dark skin. And they went out of their way to make their disdain for those dark skinned blacks to be made public.”….
-snip-
The narrator indicates that the first mention of Blue Vein Society was in a newspaper in 1873.

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Edited by Azizi Powell

This pancocojams post showcases a YouTube video and some comments from its discussion thread about The Blue Vein Society and the brown paper bag test. 

Most of these comments in this compilation are from African Americans. A few commenters are from people from the Caribbean and elsewhere.

The content of this post is presented for historical, socio-cultural, and educational purposes.

All copyrights remains their owners.

Thanks to Ti's Hot Mess History for researching and publishing this video and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
The term "Blue Vein Society" wasn't the name of any particular organization or organizations (institutions), but refers to the type of social organizations/institutions that prohibited membership or participation by people whose skin was darker than a certain complexion.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/03/article-excerpt-lousiana-creole-people.html for the closely related pancocojams post entitled "Article Excerpt - "Louisiana Creole People" (as historical background for information & comments about the Blue Vein Societies and the brown bag tests)."

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DISCLAIMER: Some commenters specifically mentioned Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc, Jack & Jill of America, and The Links as Blue Vein Society (type) organizations. This is a small example of the social organizations that either considered themselves or were considered "Blue Vein Societies.

Judging from online content, these organizations no longer adhere to these colorist rules.

Click Wikipedia links for information about these organizations.

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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO'S DISCUSSION THREAD

These comments are numbered for referencing purposes only. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJR-jpHOA84&t=33s

2022

1. Lailah Lynn Media
"Awesome video, Ti.  A lot of people deny this type of history.  But it's real and it's affected generations of people."

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2. Ti's Hot Mess History
"Thank you so much, Lailah!  You're right.  It WAS real and is real now.  There's even denial in this comment section.  It's shameful."

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3. Leah Ben Israel
"Also in the Caribbean"

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4. Addicted To Success
"Colorism, featurism (typically hate against our nose and lips), and texturism (hate against Afro textured hair) is still HIGHLY rampant in our community. We need to do better! Dark skin women are the ones mainly impacted now."

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5. Beautiful IsDifferent
"Unfortunately, we are still living like this today!  As a little girl I was called every derogatory name because I am dark skin. Just thinking about it hurts me!  Thanks for the video! I never heard about the Blue vein Society."

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6. S Larvadain
"I’m from New Orleans and yes this was true in many households at one time. I believe my great grandparents were like that just because one of my grandfathers is darker and he said he had to meet my grandmother’s parents to get approval. It’s something that no one should be proud of."

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7. green byrd
"@S Larvadain  No, it is definitely not something to be proud of. Something similar happened to my uncle. A classmate from college took him home for the weekend and was told not to bring him back. This was in 1968. Everyone in her family was very light, and they let him know (through their non-verbals) that he was not considered to be their equal. Pathetic!"

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8. S Larvadain
"T La I’m definitely aware but was sharing my family’s experiences because my city was notorious for colorism at one time.  So that was enough to deal with. I’m on a lighter spectrum and feel bad for how that slave mentality divided us and still to this day in many ways."

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9. S Larvadain
"@green byrd  Definitely !  I’m just happy my siblings and I wasn’t raised with that mindset."

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10. green byrd
" @S Larvadain  Me too! 😊"

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11. La Jo
"My daddy called them the 7th Warders because that's where the light skins lived when he was growing up in the late 40's-60's"
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This comment refers to the 7th Ward New Orleans, Louisiana neighborhood.

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12. La Jo
"Also the Autocrat Club was light skinned and shunned the darker skins which is why the Zulu club was created. When whites started wanting to be a part of Zulu then so did they"

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13. S Pecan
"Don't forget the backwoods of North Carolina. Colorism is alive and well."

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14. Just Andrea
"My mom told me not to adopt a dark skinned child because they would not look like my husband and I. I was like, come on man. That's crazy. But she grew up in Mississippi and that's how they think. I am very very fair but I've always wanted to be darker."

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15. Laurie Williams
"So true when i was growing up i use to hear black boys say my mother or aunt or grandma told me to marry a white woman so i can have pretty kids when i grow up.A lot of black people feel that way today,When a black man don't have anything he'll want that black woman by his side,but let that joker become famous,he will want everything except a black woman.The black man go to thinking that their better than us.Check out the NFL sports.Their wives or girlfriends are white or mixed with another race.Just because you marry outside your race don't mean your kids will be pretty!!!"

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16. S Larvadain
"@Laurie Williams   It’s funny you mention white women. My mom always said back in the day they would get money and get them a high yellow woman 😂. My mom said they don’t even want us (light skinned women) anymore, they want straight up white because they’ve got easier access to them now."
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"high yellow" = informal term for a very light skinned person

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17. TG Hamilton
"Yep, the women were also called the Washington, D.C. Pinks.:

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18. green byrd
"@TG Hamilton  OMG! 🙄"

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19. TG Hamilton
"@green byrd  My 80+ year old elders are light skinned. They were too dark for the DC Pinks, but a few cousins were white passing. They were also DC Pinks back in the day."

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20. green byrd
"@TG Hamilton  Fix it Jesus! 😂"

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21. TG Hamilton
"@green byrd  Mostly deceased now, but I didn't even know that some of my own second cousins were white passing. I was like....WHAT?!* But, I get it. There was a time when their survival may have depended on it as there were hard and obvious barrier to prosperity and education if you were Black. It is what it is/was."

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22. green byrd
"@TG Hamilton  Sad, but true."

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23. JaMarcia Clay
"South America as well"

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24. Christa
"As a native of south Louisiana I can confirm this is accurate.  There are a few other Louisiana communities that can be added to the list."

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25. sand mors
"Green Byrd, don't also forget in Georgia, especially in the ATL area and Methodist! My grandfather's family were for the most part all light skinned, Methodist and had businesses and trade. My grandfather married a dark skinned, beautiful, smooth skinned, high cheek bone, silky haired black woman and his family tried to lose contact with him."
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"ATL"= Atlanta, Georgia

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26. green byrd
"@sand mors  Wow. Never heard that about Methodists, but I was Methodist growing up and come to think of it, they did have a thing about the "big important" churches preferring light skinned pastors. So crazy!"

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27. Nicole Smith
"Yes it the Caribbean there's a lot of colorism. There was a saying that was said by my great grandmother it goes if you black stay back, if you brown stick around and if you're white/fair skin welcome or come around something to that effect. This whole thinking 🤔 and mentality came  from slavery and trickled down to our grandparents and parents. We need to break this cycle but I still see colorism being perpetuated in our generation and society which is pretty sad and stupid 😔 at the same time."

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28. green byrd
"@Nicole Smith  You're from the Caribbean? I'm from Ohio and I heard the same saying, just phrased a little differently: "If you're white, you're alright. If you're yellow, you're mellow. If you're brown, stick around. But if you're black, get back." So, from the beautiful Caribbean to land locked Ohio, looks like the same foolishness is embedded in the culture.  You're right. It is sad and stupid."

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29. sand mors
"@TG Hamilton  but there was some passers that also helped the black cause, example: there was a multiracial man who passed as white and infiltrated the KKK and shared that information with black groups preventing possible lynchings and house burning. Not all light skinned people are against their dark skinned brethren. I say, use it to your advantage if you can pass to help your people."
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"passers" = people with some Black African descent who "passed" for White

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30. Foluke Bady
"As a Washingtinian you are absolutely  correct. I saw it as a child and teen and furthermore, I see it in more discreet cunning ways in industries, sororities, spiritual organizations."

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30. Nichola Lewis
"This video is a lot to unpack! I've never heard of the Blue Vein Society, but growing up in the New Orleans 7th ward I'm familiar with the brown paper bag test. Colorism deeply affected families by pitting the light against the darker relatives. The lighter your complexion and the more European features you had, you were crowned the "favorite". Imagine being a child and only seeing pictures of your light complexioned relatives featured prominently around the house while the darker relatives were in the photo album."

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31. Chica Robertson
"Color-struck is what we used also.. It's now called colorism..."

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32. An Uncolonized Mind
"I am so tired of this Light skinned vs Dark skinned mess.

I have heard My mom say negative things all my life.

 My mom was born in the 40s & is light skinned & brainwashed.. still to this day.

My little brother is light like her &  our dad is dark skin, I came out somewhere in the middle. So she always favored him more, than she does me.

My dad used to say she is "color struck" I honestly don't know how, they came to be married. 🤷🏾‍♀️

We are all black, no matter the shade. This has always seemed very stupid to me."

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33. Ronald Higgins
"It's a sad sickness that we as black folks are going to have to keep dealing with. It hasn't entirely gone away. Its not as blatant and ugly as it was years ago, but it is still with us. I had an aunt who would always tell me to get a light skin yellow gal. I paid her no mind. Plus I was a young boy at the time and didn't  really understand the depth of that comment. Now that I am much older and do, how sad it was."

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34. karlkilcrease51
"Here in Pittsburgh, up to the early 1970's our high yellers were called The Five Hundreds. They had a private club, The Loendi and they held the paper bag test close to their hearts. We laughed at these wannabes, with their heads full of fur, and regardless of how light they were, the Pittsburgh whites still called them "The N Word," with impunity."
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Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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35. lionessawaking42412
"My dad taught me about the paper bag test….he hated it. My dad could ‘pass’ the test and yet he hated how divisive it was to black community.

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36. Darren Ridley
…."it starts with us being brutally honest about the situation. There are no groups, organizations even cities or towns that excluded light skin blacks. This doesn't mean light skin blacks didn't have colorism issues , it's just not the same."

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37. BlindMellowJelly
" @Darren Ridley  True but I heard tales of how when a light guy came into one of the juke's back in the day men would pull guns on them cause they thought they would mess with their wife or GF. Many do not know how painful it is for a entire Town to turn their back on you because you might be light. Cab Calloway and Duke Ellington spoke of this and how relatives and loved ones just hated them for no real reason. That is the conditioning whitey passed on to them and they arent educated enough to have seen the pain. I have a whole side of my families (both sides) that will never ever know me or my grandchildren because of this topic. I just hope one of mine does not marry any and create genetic f—kery*.
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*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

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38. Yona Avraham
"I knew about both the blue vein society and the intraracial prejudice in the black race.

Nothing has changed.Today they call it a preference,but if you look at celebs and who is promoted it's still the light skinned woman over the dark skinned woman and the dark skinned man over the lighter skinned man."

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39. Tee Willi
"Even in commercials. You rarely see brown or dark skinned little girls. In the off chance that the family is brown to dark, only the little girl will light or look "mixed" with softer textured big hair. It's not much better for brown and dark women. And the more black people are in commercials, the more light, or mixed big haired black women appear. Also notice how it's mostly black people paired with non-black partners in commercials. This is rarely seen for other races."

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40. Gemini Queen
"I have a friend whose mother would have passed the brown paper bag test, and whose father would not have passed.  She said her father told her, "don't ever think that you're better than someone else because you are lighter than them, because that means that anyone who's lighter than you is better than you."  She also said her mother grew up poor and her father was the one who was privileged."

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41. Janita Poe, Ph.D.
"We have the rainbow in my extended family and I can tell you, as some know, this issue cuts ALL ways:

1) The valuing of light exists in Black people of all hues. In fact, the most over-the-top hate towards the darker-skinned fam that I've seen has come from medium-skinned peeps who seem to care a lot about color.

2) A lot (not all!) of light-skinned blacks wish they were darker and try very hard to be loved by the only community they've ever known.

3) As a people, we may bully the darkest child on the playground but as adults it's absolutely the reverse. e.g. It is the norm for a sister to say "I'm not attracted to light skinned men" -- often right in front of them -- and no one blinks (Imagine the reverse. All h... would break loose on the speaker). "The blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice" is an anthem in some circles as are other sayings that uplift and affirm our darkest.

My view is that the healing needs to happen for us all."

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42. Exquisite Beauty by Jacqueline
"Hello Ti, unfortunately I knew about most all of this. Colorism is alive.  It runs on both sides, light and dark, and keeps people divided.  My great great aunts , grandmother and great aunts were some of the school teachers in those days.  Many of them left the deep south to teach in the north.    Also, my quadroon grandad stopped speaking to my mom for five years because she married a dark man!  Her first love, was very light like her, and granddad liked him.  I knew about those stupid tests because I grew up in Alabama, and they still did a bit of that during my lifetime.  Great episode!"

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43. Exquisite Beauty by Jacqueline
"@Ashanti Edwards  I have no side in this mess.  My parents are from the opposite spectrum of appearance.  My dark skinned dad always told me he chose my mom because in his words "black ____are evil".  So obviously there was some self hatred there.  I actually was excluded from a club my darker biological brothers belong to because I take after my mom, and was considered "watered down".  "Y all" must mean you are generalizing based on my appearance, and that defines the problem."

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44. Ashanti Edwards
"@Exquisite Beauty by Jacqueline  clearly you have a side because after all that was presented in the video you commented that colorism is on both sides. You cant find examples of dark skinned blacks doing all the things the light skinned blacks have done throughout history. What's the name of this club that excluded you? Generalizing based on your light skin doesnt define the problem at all. Making death threats and harassing people for no other reason that they are dark skinned defines the problem. Excluding people from the workforce because they are dark skinned defines the problem. Coveting your white blood defines the problem. Stop tryna deflect from that with petty examples that clearly are the extreme exception and tryna equate them to the behavior that was the rule for light skinned people."

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45. Jessica Williams
"@Ashanti Edwards  Darkskinned folks may not have formed groups and alienated lightskinned folks, but getting bullied everyday because of your complexion is more than some hurt feelings. I didn't have to go through this, but my lightskinned sisters did. My brother, although he is light as well didn't go through it because they were too afraid of him. Black people as a whole have abused each other, but everyone wants to act like abuse against lightskinned black folks is okay, or they try to downplay it like it is nothing serious or just some hurt feelings."

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46. S Larvadain
"Being from New Orleans, I’ve heard of the paper bag test from my grandparents. Most of the beautiful sisters holding up the paper bag in your video would not have passed.  My family is an old Creole family and that is one of the embarrassing stain on black American history."

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47. S Larvadain
"Curly💞 I never said being Creole is an embarrassment. I said colorism is an embarrassing stain on the black community.  I’m Creole on both sides, born and raised in New Orleans with family who still speak Creole.  I’m true to it but we can’t deny that many Creole families practiced colorism."

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48. Felicia Jenkins
"I grew up in the 70's-80's and unfortunately have some relatives who don't want anything to do with me cause I'm not light skin. I was the darkest one in my house but never got that kind of rejection from my mother who is very light or brother.  Meanwhile those relatives I've been fortunate enough to not be around are not missed."

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49. David Buirst
"I saw some documentaries about Creoles that blew my mind. I couldn't believe so much started from that including sororities, fraternities and social clubs..

Love the fact you said it produced cycles that lasted generations and still exist"

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50. Terminator X
"My grandma once encountered a paper bag party at Tuskegee University…She was denied entry."

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51. Nicole Smith
"Rosa Parks was not the first person to not give up her seat on the bus. A few years prior there was a 15 year old girl named Claudette Colvin read up on her that did this not giving up her seat on the bus. But the difference between Rosa and Claudette was colorism and ageism. Rosa got the shine cause of being lighter hue than Claudette also Rosa was mature in age. While Claudette the true and first activist remained in the back for us to research."

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52. N̳o̳v̳a̳☆HittingTheGroundRunning ♏️2.0
"This reality is a painful part of my childhood.

Colorism is horrible in the Caribbean community"

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53. Alfreda Gross
"I am a great grandma!  The year 1967. Because the inside of my wrist is light with blue veins running through I was invited to join our neighborhood light skin girls, bougie, upper class club. Sadly beautiful girls darker than a paper bag were never asked.to join. Afro hair, I’m black and I’m proud was shameful to most of our light skinned parents,  Doctors , Judges , Attorneys , teachers, preachers who so called arrived were full of self hate. SMH"

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54. Sheila B
"It's sad we still live in these days and times. My mother was 1 of 14 all by the same man and woman . Different complexions dark skin , light skinned, bright and pecan. Not once did any of them think they were better than the other. My mom never raised her children to think or feel less than. Yes, I'm light skinned came from a beautiful pecan woman, my biological mother. Only classmates made an issue of being light.   Not my family. People still haven't grown up."

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55. Jessica Williams
"Amen!! I'm brown from a very lightskinned mother and she never raised us to be that way. I raise my girls the same way. People start in on complexion conversation with them and they look at them like they are stupid. It's so many more important things in life than somebody's blue veins and paper bags. I hate that it was our people who came up with this dumb ish!!"

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56. biggasmelly
"Great Story Thank you.

This mindset still exists in Jamaica to this day. Where Light skinned Black people and very Light skinned Black people who look nearly white are called "BROWNING" They get all the top jobs in the Banks, and nearly all major corporations. In the Parliament they are the majority compared to the darker skin Black politicians. Historically it has always been this way in Jamaica since the abolition of Slavery. Take a look at a photo of the current Prime Minister of Jamaica to see what i am speaking about.."

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57. Andrea Brown
"This is so true my mom family treated darker skin people like myself and darker like they were less than I just thought it was something that was done only in her family but as I got older I noticed that not only did this happen in my mom family it was happening every where. Which is so unfortunate because my dad is light skin that if he wanted to he could pass for another race he never did that thankfully he taught me that no matter what you look like or what complexion I am I was special to him thank you dad for that❤️"

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58. gabriella johnson
"Girrrrl you have just blown my mind!! Omgawd I thought Spike Lee movie “School Daze” was deep but this “Blue Vein Society “ is scary because I’m dark skinned and it still carry’s on in Chicago and in the BLACK COMMUNITY"

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59. Thomas Malone
"I've heard about this. My (now) late grandmother used to talk about her aunt Sarah being in a sorority that was afflicted* with the blue vein society. She always made it sound like a badge of honor or something.it is the first time i ever heard of something my grandmother would talk about in actual history."
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*Afflicted= is a typo for “affiliated”

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60. Melanie Allen
"Great video! I’m from and live in Shreveport, LA. I never knew Shreveport had it’s own Blue Vein Society. Colorism has really done a number on our community."

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61. Minsky Brown
"That was a fascinating and well produced video, thank you.

As a Black Brit of Caribbean descent I had heard stories of my maternal Grandmother showing & telling people her blue veins and stating that she was royalty. I now get the context which may have caused her to do so in the 1920's.

And yes, please do the vid on colourism pre slavery."

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62. Jane Toler
"Yes,  I knew about the Blue Vein Society. My mother told me about it. She said one of the largest Baptist church in Washington  D.C. was a blue vein church until a light skinned preacher came to that church as their new pastor and his wife was dark skinned. The church changed after that."

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63. Black Butterfly
"I subscribed!  Thank you for the video and sad that this behavior is generational.... I remember being treated differently growing up being darker than my light skinned sisters. I was literally called a 'tar baby' going to an all white school in the 80's!!!!!! But lo and behold in '98' I was asked if I was my son's nanny because he's light skinned and me being that dark skinned woman. The feeling that came behind that question - I can not put into words..."

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64.  Squalli 1
"I didn't know what colorism was until I went to school in the 50's & was called "high yellow." I later learned this was taught in the home that I didn't learn. As an adult in the 70's, I have applied at Black owned businesses which practiced the brown paper bag rule. One employer did not hire an applicant unless his wife gave the okay-appearance mattered to her. I believe colorism starts in the home & the women whom run them. Girls are highly impacted by colorism growing up as they see female celebs/entertainers & their impact on our society. It somehow trickles down generationally."

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65. Mz. Jackson
"This is a topic that truly hits home for me on a very personal level and has profoundly shaped and impacted my own sense of identity, community and belonging for as far back as I can remember. And unlike the experience of many of my fellow mixed or light complected black Americans, my upbringing was quite unusual in that I am descended from multiple generations of so-called  "Blue vein" Negroes dating all the way back to at least the time of  the Louisiana Purchase and most likely even earlier, however records, dairies, ledgers and other documents produced prior to the American Revolution are nearly impossible to come by - especially with respect to those forebears who were enslaved. As an historian and archivist of Black Diasporic Studies, I have spent a great number of years researching my family's lineage on both maternal and paternal sides and have been quite successful in obtaining a relatively substantial trove of information regarding my ancestors, although to be fair, any success is credited mainly to the impeccable collection of family paperwork, letters, journals and photos my grandmother had accumulated over the course of her impressive life of 102 years and bequeathed unto me shortly before her passing.

Speaking of passing (lol), my paternal grandmother spent the greater portion of her life assuming the identity of a Spanish woman or sometimes a French woman, depending upon the audience or situation. As a light skinned Creole woman growing up in the Jim Crow South, she, like her parents and their parents before them, had belonged to that unique  self-appointed class of privileged black people whose fair skin, naturally wavy to straight hair and  seemingly European looking features earned her an "elite"  status recognized by both blacks and whites ever since the first biracial babies began to appear in the western hemisphere shortly after the arrival of Columbus. Lighter skinned blacks typically enjoyed a significantly higher "privileged" status than their darker counterparts in just about every colony and nation in the New World,  particularly in such places as Saint Domingue (Haiti), Brazil, Cuba, Argentina and the United States, however it should be noted that the practical advantages awarded by such privileges varied astronomically between colonies and even between states. In some very rare instances, lighter blacks were granted some of the same rights as Whites. In Saint Domingue, for example, prior to the Haitian Independence, a series of codes de Noire or black codes were passed by France outlining the rights and privileges afforded to the gens de colour libere or free men of color. These people were nearly exclusively mixed or light complected blacks and were often the offspring of unions between French elite and black enslaved women. They were permitted to receive an education- often studying in France in order to obtain the finest education- and they could own property, serve as high ranking officers in military, and even serve in government.  This rare and unprecedented legislative display of favoritism created a strong division among Haitians which is still very heavily felt today.

In the U.S., it is perhaps unsurprising that a similar tradition of favoritism would develop in New Orleans,  due most likely to the tremendous French influence of the city. Even long after Louisiana entered the US as a state and adopted a much harsher legislative attitude towards free blacks, New Orleans more or less maintained its traditions with respect to the more privileged  treatment of lighter skinned folks.

From that tradition  emerged the Creole community from which my family descended. After the end of slavery in 1865, my great-great grandfather established a bank and even served in local government for a term before being forced out by Klan. Nonetheless , he and his wife lived quite well even when everyone around them were struggling. From what I've learned of them, I am ashamed to admit I find very little if anything redeemable about their character or lack thereof. They were elitists and, while I don't know whether they actually participated in the Blue Vein society, they were indeed poster children for the cause! This deep sense of arrogance and entitlement passed on down to their children and grandchildren  until, finally discarded by my dad. The psychological wounds, however, remain and today I struggle with the guilt and shame of inheriting a shameful legacy as well as the light skin and European features that unfairly won my forebears  unmerited favor and privilege in a society ruled by the very ones who beat and raped those like my great great great-grandmother whose children subsequently became the blue veins of the following generation."

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66. Bernadette Devereaux
"My mother’s side of the family had light skin and hazel eyes. My uncle married a woman that his mother and sisters always referred to her as “that Black gal” behind her back. Being called Black was quite offensive until James Brown’s “Say it loud. I’m Black and I’m proud.” "

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67. meeka boo
"I enjoyed watching. I learned some things about our history of colorist. I want to mention that Spike Lee's movie, School Daze gave a history lesson. In regards to Sororities and Fraternities and the inflected division based in skin color/tones."

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68. EbTheCeleb
"I’ll say this both my grandfathers (very dark men with wavy hair) married very high yellow women. My mother’s mom shunned her because she came out dark like her dad but her sister did not. It’s damaged my mother greatly and me a bit. Her mom was so mean to me as a baby. Im broken but I figure still obviously darker than her :( this is heartbreaking because it’s real. I’ve seen my mothers mom in town and pasty ass would tilt her head up n walk right past me. I mean she was white! Her only give away was her hair she had very course hair."

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69. Frances Walker
"Just to let you know, being called "high yella" is offensive just as it is offensive calling someone "Nig-a*", "darkie", "blackie", "blurple", etc. I don't know why brown skin people think it's okay to talk about light skinned people calling them "high yella"! It is NOT OKAY to say "HIGH YELLA!""
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*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.

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70. kerman725 n5
"Cab Callaway insisted that his dark skinned dancers after he took over from Duke Ellington.  He insisted that they be paid higher wages.  His popularity was so strong the owners gave in."

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71.  E Dow
"No one mentioned the second test.  Run a fine  tooth comb through your hair, if it catches a snag, you failed.  I passed the paper bag test but failed the hair test."

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72. I'am V
"And most of them wouldn't pass the hair test or the size test as well.  Because most of them probably don't have the size of top model Naomi Campbell.  That goes to show you black people as a whole need to wake up out of foolishness."

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73. Sandra Brooks
"In my family I had heard bring home someone who can use my comb. But our family feels we Black Black period. Cause white Privilege only see Black from the darkest to the lightest. We still Black"

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74. Cathy Moore
"Thank you for this video Ti. I never knew such an organization ever existed. I know colorism is asinine, but this group of black folk really took it to another level. Everything you told us about the " blue vein" was terrible, but the story about them threatening the dark skin man's life because he was with a light skin woman was the worse one for me."

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75. Brandon Page
"Thanks Ti, for once again, digging up little known black history facts. I definitely have never heard of the blue vein society, & it's disgusting to know that blacks were doing that to each other, so soon after slavery ended. Well, I definitely would not pass the brown bag test, lol, but my father would, as he is part German, & very light skinned. My mother was a beautiful dark skinned black woman.

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76. Kathleen King
"Some of those "blue veiners" passed for white and left the black community entirely"

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77. SJanez91
"Thanks for this information Ti! I've heard of the Blue Vein Society before. Stedman Graham, Oprah's man and Maria Cole, Nat King Cole's wife families were allegedly were part of that society. I remember Natalie Cole's autobiography, Maria and her family were something else. They did not want her marrying Nat because he was DS, they didn't care that he was wealthy and famous either. Maria's first husband was an Tuskegee airmen named Neal Spurgeon Ellington who died two years after they got married was LS so they looked at Nat as an downgrade for Maria."

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78. Supremmo
"There were two books some years back that covered this topic. One was the Color Complex and the other was Our Kinda People by the late Lawrence Otis Graham. Check those two books out when you have a chance."

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79. can i kickit
"Thank you so much for making this video Ti...sometimes when I try to talk to people about colorism.... they try to sweep it under the rug, act like it's something new or act like it doesn't exist at all...I keep telling people colorism has been around in our community and even  more intimately in our own families..we need to first acknowledge it, then learn more about it and lastly have healthy discussions so as not to repeat the destructive behaviors...self reflection can be hard but it is sooo necessary for change....this was an awesome video well done👏👏"

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80. Dieezah Translator-Songwriter
"News flash: some people still think in this manner. This isn't a problem of the past although it tends to manifest in different ways now... And it isn't restricted to the U.S., sadly..."

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81. Valley girl
"I just found your channel. I grew up in this population. My mother was in all the social clubs that upheld this mindset till the early 70's when the Civil Rights movement finally penetrated these groups. My family and I were the darkest in those groups for years. we squeaked through because we are the color of the paper bag and my father had a DR., to his name. I also think because we are a West Indian family on both sides. I remember my HS boyfriend and his family passed and his mother couldn't stand me because I didn't pass. My grandfather passed and when he took my mom to Barbados to see family for the first time when she was 5, her aunts couldn't understand why my mother was so black. My mom was lighter than a paper bag and never forgot that or the feeling of being unwanted.. Don't get me wrong. I loved my childhood. I always felt like a stranger in a strange land."

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82. A.D. Owens
"My wife’s grandmother told me about the paper bag and blue vein parties in NYC. She was fairly light too, but she didn’t get in the parties."

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83. Tzuriah
"I had never heard of the paper bag test or the blue veined society. They make my heart hurt."

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84. Kaleah Collins
"My aunt would scrub my skin with Ajax when I bathed . I got darker as I got older. But I was at least the color of the brown paper bag as a little girl my veins still show through my red tinted skin She would tell me about the test and that I would pass still because my hair wasn't nappy and though I was brown skin I was Carmelo tone with red tint . I didn't have such features many would say no your not really black you dnt look Real black you dnt have black features or hair 🤔.  My 2x great grandmother who was native by birth but looked white she raised all 14 of her children as black . She passed as mulatto instead of Indian just so she didn't have to send her future children to the forced residential schools . She raised her children My great grandmother and all her siblings no matter the color as black . My own daughters could be considered as white in some ways. My eldest is lighter then my youngest but they are both very much racial ambiguous.  I show them and tell them these stories as well as stories the stories of how light skinned almost white children was still slaves and woman was used as whores for the rich elite."
-snip-
"Ajax" is a brand name for a household cleaning product that is not meant to be used on people's skin.

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85. You'll Like It Too
"Self hatred is as old as time itself. Blue Vein is new to me. Thanks for sharing!! Now, Jack and Jill are groups such as this are what I've heard of."

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86. Terrilyn Woodfin
"Unfortunately, I now understand why my mother and I were ostracized in darker skinned black communities. I still have remnants of trauma possibly because of this."

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87. elvmat1
"Thanks for the interesting video! I have certainly heard of the Blue vein society, paper bag test etc-I am from NC. Also, Washington DC was a particularly bad place for that cause they controlled the public schools and had some power. Most of these people had some social pull only. The nickname for many of the Light skinned DC folks was "the Pinks".  Whole towns in NC had mostly light Black people like the notorious Ashoskie. The tyranny of the Blue vein society was ended by the rise of HBCU's educating Black people of all complexions and with the better paying jobs and education for darker Blacks, many a Blue vein woman married a dark skinned professional man! A lot of that went out the window if  it was a wealthy doctor who was Dark versus a Blue vein who was just a Barber-same fools messing around about the dumb paper bag would move heaven and earth to get Light Mary to marry that doctor,lol! BTW, a lot of Blue vein jobs were actually service jobs around Whites like chefs, Barbers and seamstresses etc. When real educations and careers began to arise, many dark people outcompeted the Blue veins at HBCUS and elsewhere , and that caused way more mixing and less color segregation among Blacks. Colorism did not die of course but that organized Blue Vein stuff did. Plus some of the most active and helpful people in Civil rights were these almost white folks who helped go where darker folks could not go. A good book about the efforts of these folks to get rights for the whole race is "Light Bright and Damn near white" which Lena Horne's daughter complied. Its a great book!"

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88. Dieezah Translator-Songwriter
"The same way of thinking and acting often occured in the Caribbean colonies and mulattos would marry mulattos or quadroons. My great grandmother broke that streak when she fell under the spell of the dark-skinned black man who would become her spouse and the father of her 12 children. She fell for his educated mastery of French as he was making a public speech. He was one of the first black school teacher on the island after slavery was abolished... (Abolition here happened in 1848)"

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89. Ronda my music
"My first job I worked at a school that taught business , auto and cosmetology. The president was a very light skin woman with what some refer good hair. Once a month her society group (in the 1970's) would have their meeting in her conference room. Every woman was very light and a few could pass for white. I asked the other secretary who was very dark . Why are all of them light in this group. She just smile and wink as long as you can pass the paper bag test you can join. Never heard that before so when I went home I compare myself to a paper bag . (I know it was stupid,) Never paid attention to the color of bags . Just felt strange . Even though I was lighter than the bag. I felt I wouldn't want to be in there group. It just didn't feel right and it wasn't right."

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90. Catherine English
"There's a whole community in Camden Co NJ where all the folks are fair and had to marry fair skinned mates . My sister in law and her urban are a couple married in  this fashion .  My sister in law was  also the first black home coming queen in Pennsauken NJ ."

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91. Beth5171
"OOOOOOOOoooohhhh speak on it Sis!!!!! ❤❤❤❤💯💯Time to put some TRUTH on the subject...hello black Sororites and Fraternities!!😏💋"

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92. sherritay
"Oooo that's so true  my mother is very lite skined went to college a certain sorority who she remain nameless invited her to pledge they didn't look at a grade she had my mama could have been as dumb as a post but as long as that skin didn't get darker she was ok to pledge there sorrority my mother was very offended and pledged another sorrority"

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93. Beth5171
"@sherritay  Wow!! How disgusting! And while you are ever gracious and polite in saying they shall remain nameless, I'm not as gracious 😂😂❤

Definitely sounds like an AKA move 😏

🐷&🐸 Pink and Green 😊"

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94. sherritay
"@Beth5171  now see I wasn't naming any names lol but my mom did go on to pledge DST"
-snip-
"DST" =Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

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95.Kelly Variste
"Bravo!👏👏👏 I enjoyed watching this video I grew up in New Orleans in the 1980's and 90's and I can attest from firsthand experience the intra-racial division and the blatant colorism. New Orleans society is a three tier racial class system black, white and creole nothing in-between well at least prior to Hurricane Katrina. Now this where it gets complicated you had dark-skinned creoles who looked like Tatiana Ali or Philip Michael Thomas who were just as elitist as the light-skinned ones because they were the product of elitist freed dark-skinned blacks who were social climbers and intermarried into these light-skinned black families. So consequently these folks became the black elite so unfortunately to this day those elite black families are the New Orleans's black bourgeoisie that are involved in every level of local politics and the business class. These people are so siddity tell it ain't even funny the ultimate sell-outs. So this video really brought me back home for sure."

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96.  Cindy
"Colorism goes both ways! I am multiracial. Just like my Scandinavian mother, I was born with blonde hair and blue eyes and yep, you can see my blue veins! Growing up in a predominantly black neighborhood was hell for me, as I heard  things like how "I thought I was cute" "Zebra", "Halfbreed" and even more vicious, hateful comments on a daily basis. I grew up with dark skinned girls I barely knew, wanting to fight me just because of how I looked.  Funny when racism is the topic, that flip side I experienced, is rarely mentioned. I would have joined the Blue Veined Club in a minute! At least I would have been accepted!"

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97. 17thNO
"Same here born in New Orleans in the late 70s and raised in the 80s and 90s. It was wild how that color thing was. But...then when darker brothers were becoming the street dudes/dope boys that was runnin thangs and would do anything to get a "fiya red girl" and would give up all their bread to get them, the red girls started flocking to them. Also some of the darker girls would do anything to have lightskinned "cute/pretty" babies. So things changed."
-snip-
"Red girls" = probably refers to "redbones", an informal, usually considered non derogatory term that refers to particular shades of light brown, particularly with red tinges

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98. Kelly Variste
" @17thNO  Ah yes! You described it perfectly. That color thing was just as bad as the race thing not just color but hair texture and facial features. All of those traits or characteristics was directly associated with your class and familial status. Classism in New Orleans is so multi-layered it's not enough space to explain it all.😂😂😂"

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99. 17thNO
"@Kelly Variste  Real we all felt it. Family, school, jobs, dating. It was crazy."

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100. Lechiffresix six
"@Kelly Variste  its like we can never a break from racism frankly. this one L we need to hold it even though colorism is a mutation of white supremacy but as conscious folk we need to kill it off.

 when black americans founded Liberia, Africa . they installed colorism , and a very rigid form of it down there . and because bad habits can never be erradicated."

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101. Denise Muhammad
"We Got A Lot Of Work To Do. I'm Thankful For Sisters Like Freddie Washington, Lena Horne And Brother Adam Clayton Powell Who Didn't Suvscribe To This Foolishness. They Hated Their Own, Hated Themselves, And Was Dealing With No Reality That Caucasian Race Rejected Them Also.. Its Sad, But We Are Still Experiencing This Sick Mindset, The Social Structure Of Amerika Has Assist This Type Of Thinking To  Develope into A System. We Must Straighten This Out, We Are Not Going Anywhere Without Each Other."

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102. DJDowe
"There were sororities, Jack and Jill and debutante balls only for light skinned people. My father went to Hampton because he was too dark for Howard in his day."

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103. Livi JoJo152
"They still have these clubs and sororities but the colorism is gone thankfully. Definitely in Jack and Jill and the soros. The old women's clubs are still kind of like this sadly. I think it's ending though. The Boomers are in charge of those more now. I think it was their parents who were just really holding onto all that, who got it from their parents, who were essentially coming from WEB Dubois and his lot. The Boomers grew up with the whole black pride movement and were going against their parents even though they had to be in the deb balls/cotillions still. My mom and aunts were involved in all that stuff but they were also sneaking out and protesting for the movement. They cared much more about the latter, but grew up and joined the clubs. Change happened. I do think this is still a horrible issue in our community that needs to be addressed, but this is the case from what I've observed being a child of this world."

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104. Christophiel
"Hate to tell you this but I got a LOT of hatred growing up from my darker skinned people.... I had to learn the hard way that I was hated for my skin color to the point where my life was in danger, my self esteem destroyed, and I had business trying to hang around people who made me and my family miserable.  Truth is darker skinned people in general hate light skinned people except for light skinned women who are coveted by dark skinned men."

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105. Janita Poe, Ph.D.
"No one wants to discuss this side of the issue, Christophiel. Our community is lock step with the narrative that light-skinned blacks think they are better when the truth is we ALL have issues around all these colors were were born into."

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106. Christophiel
"@Janita Poe, Ph.D.  Persecution, chased thru the halls at school, spit upon, social outcast.... Even the teachers got in on the 'fun'.  Not wanting to be around those who despise me does not equate to me thinking I'm better than them.  I was better treated by my white and Latin friends than I ever was by my so called brothers and sisters..."

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107. Memewalker B
"I grew up in an ethnic enclave where Blacks of varying hues lived and interacted. In my own family, three of my uncles were involved in The Nation of Islam. Two of these were light completed with straight hair and one darker completed with nappy hair. Many of the activists that identified completely with the Black community had lighter skin. Adam Clayton Powell was far more militant than Martin Luther King and even referred to Dr. King as an Uncle Tom. Malcolm X himself was of mixed racial ancestry. I am fair and my brother is dark and we share the same ancestry. I personally abhor the reverse colorism of late where Zoe Saldana seen as Nina Simone in your presentation was pilloried for her. It does seem OK to not have a lighter-skinned Black actor portray Thurgood Marshall. Get over yourself as Black women of all hue are being celebrated in fashion and film these days. they are ALL beautiful. This is from a seventy-year-old grandma before you decide to be disrespectful."

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108. AE3007
"With all due respect, “respect” is earned, not automatic. Phrases like “get over yourself “ are highly dismissive of the collective experience of most dark skin peoples. And Zoe apparently realized albeit late what she chose to do was simply put, wrong, and attempted an apology, of sorts."

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109. Baheeja Williams
"My grandfather was Blue vein passed for White during the Depression

But he was Cree Native American changed the name to be accepted as an African American they had more rights

They were cotillion folks but my Mum was dark and could not attend."

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110. Rebecca Augustine
"As my grand-dad once opined, "You haven't seen prejudice until you've seen it among [blacks] of differing skin tones!" (Back in the 1950s, polite Caucasians said "Negroes" at the time.)"

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111. tafi mutekwe
"Caste system in the black community."

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112.Abena Williams
"The writer is referring to the darker skinned blacks as full blooded Ethiopians. Around that time “Ethiopian” was used almost synonymously with “African” "

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113. originalprinceeq
"Now it's the exact opposite. Have you been to Atlanta? Dark skin gets together to specifically hate on light skin ... it's never ending ..."

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114.  Aiai Monkey
"Colorism is in itself rooted in racism and plantation practices of the old south. Many "light skinned" blacks, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries were mixed race with a white father or grandfather. The politics are mind numbing"

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115. Beverly Hintzen
"Colorism was one of the issues in the Rawanda genocide in 1994. Colorism is not only an African American problem."
-snip-
"Rawanda" is a typo for the name of the East African nation of Rwanda.

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116. victor vazquez
"White America also try to do similar thing a century ago in Puerto Rico. During WW1 they separated Puerto Ricans bye color. They also attempted to do a population census bye color in P.R. in the early 1900s. They introduce as a mandate sterilization to woman garment workers in the late 50s to early 60s and made it a priority for dark skin  Puerto Rican woman. We didnt fall for the Yankee trap. We are not a color we are Puerto Ricans."

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117.  Juan Jones
"If only you knew that still goes on today as quite as it's kept. Back in the day we would call them passe pour blanc or short pass'er blanc, oh and they'd get mad, because they knew we knew they were black. Till this day you could lose your life trying to marry a light skin person in Louisiana and you darker than a paper bag, or they will shun you. frfr."

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118. Tee Willi
"First I'd ever heard of the Blue Vein society. But I had heard "light, bright, darn near white" black folks referred by the old folks as blue bloods. Colorism is truly a sick, sick, SICK mental disorder. Please do the video on pre-slavery colorism, as well as one on the effects of colonial emperialism throughout the diaspora (including Africa) as it relates to colorism."

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119. Gordon Franklin Terry, Sr. M.Ed.
"My grandma would pass the paperbag test and help her darker sisters into her clubs. The links"

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120. The Al Show
"Notes on the video:

1) Biracial and mixed race people prior to the Civil War had their own communities and organizations in places like Charleston, SC and New Orleans, LA. This changed with the Plessy V Ferguson SCOTUS decision. Likely the founding of BVS came as part of the effort to retain mixed race organizations but within black communities because of changes in the law and encroaching segregation.

2)  The Arizona Republican item shows you how blunt , matter of fact and in your face race and racial matters could be decades ago.  The fact it called for members of   "European blood"  tells you all you need to know in that aspect.

3) I never knew much of anything about the Blue Vein Society but that last item makes one think they tried to intimidate others. Quite disturbing

4) Im.biracial and its interesting how some of the mixed race people in these photos look."
-snip-
Plessy was a light skin Creole of Color. 

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121. Aimee-Lynn Donovan
"Yes my grandmother passed for white for employment , but never shunned brown or black. My grandfather was very dark."

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122. Sarah Bewley
"I guess the Morial family of Louisiana were "Blue Veins", I have family members in my family that are blue veins from the State of Tennessee, yet my father is a tan brown and my Mom is a "Blue Vein"."

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123. SagesseNoir
"I wonder how these blue veins would react to family like mine: Dark skin dad,  light mother (some called her red   bone), with light daughter and dark son. And a lot of my family from the Carolinas are like this...some as light as Halle or Barack, some as dark as Michelle Obama or Denzel."

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124.  LoveWorkProject
"I knew about this light, bright, damn near white hierarchy, but I didn't know about the death threats, the blocking of employment, etc.  It's interesting however that they would label as "superior" their own oppressors; which, as we know, is a sign of serious self-hatred.  But thanks a bunch for this.  I'd like to see more of these "extra" pieces of history that remain obscure, especially since you do such a marvelous job of integrating the still-life pictures which underscore the point you are making.  Thanks again.  Much love"

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125. Brown Bagz
"Yes I was in subjected to the paper and test when I tried to join Jack & Jill"

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126. Ken_yatta
"In Guyana it’s the Indians and lighter skinned individuals that get those jobs. You forgot to mention the light and mixed woman who always win the beauty pageants."

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127. Lawrence Phelps
"Never heard of the brown bag test or the Blue Vein Society but here in Maryland there was a close knit group called Proctors who were similar to Blue Vein.  Light skinned and intermarried. When I got my first interview for the US Government,  the Manager was a very nice woman who was light skinned.  She hired me.  A few of the blacks called her an Oreo that startled me."

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128.  Theresa Bullock
"I’m glad you published this. It’s time we tackle this in our OWN community because this is a situation that was bought about by US. To whites we all were inferior, that’s why they bought the 1 drop rule out. They didn’t care about how white you looked. So, we as a people perpetualed  this sin among ourselves, so it’s time we address it. Even our entertainers and  sports figures are highly involved when you hear them always talking about their preferences. Where did this can of self hate come from? No, not the white man, it started in our own bullying and inferiority complexes right in our OWN neighborhoods and in the distinctions made in our own families. We are a beautiful people made up of so many color spectrums of dark browns to yellow tones. Let’s love and honor that and stop the divisions among us so that we can elevate as a people."

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129.Keyna McQueen
"Blue veins means you can see their veins through their skin..simple and dumb but true"

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130. Maggs W
"Growing up in the UK as a dark skinned black woman of West Indian parentage, I can assure you, dark skin 'colorism' is alive and well. I believe I experienced more of this from my black kin-folk than the white man."

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2023

131. Abraham Isaac Mucius III
"So is preferring dark skin a form of colorism?

There are still some families in the D.C. area and of course New Orleans that actively work to maintain their light complexion. Children are told not to marry anyone with brown or dark brown skin. Colorism is definitely still a problem."

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132. Hannah landfair
"When I used to live in Alabama, the kids used to pick with me because I am lightskin I wanted to be dark skinned so bad."

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133. Tiffany Baldwin80
"Thank you for this history I always thought the brown paper bag test came from somebody white I feel away that our own people did this and it created this division which is still going on today I am a dark woman with a light-skinned daughter who definitely pass the brown paper bag test"

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