BBYMRLCCOTN, Jan 15, 2010
-snip-
Here's information about Fiddlin'" John Carson from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddlin%27_John_Carson
"Fiddlin'" John Carson (March 23, 1868 – December
11, 1949) was an American old-time fiddler and singer who recorded what is
widely considered to be the first country music song featuring vocals and
lyrics
**** SHOWCASE SOUND FILE #2: Uncle Dave Macon - Wouldn't Give Me Sugar In My Coffee
Macon's music is considered the ultimate bridge between 19th-century American folk and vaudeville music and the phonograph and radio-based music of the early 20th-century."... **** INFORMATION ABOUT THE OLD TIME MUSIC SONGS "SUGAR IN MY COFFEE-O" From http://bluegrassmessengers.com/sugar-in-the-coffee-o--version-7-carson.aspx Sugar in My Coffee-O
..."Old-Time Song and Breakdown, Widely known.[...]
CATEGORY: Fiddle and Instrumental Tunes
DATE: 1843 as “Dandy Jim from Caroline.” First recording as Sugar in My Coffee-O by Crockett's Kentucky Mountaineers, "Sugar in my Coffee" (Crown 3075, c. 1930); First recording as What are You Going To Do With the Baby 1928 by the Hodge Brothers; then Grayson & Whittier in 1929; First recording as Prettiest Little Gal in the County by Gid Tanner and Riley Puckett in 1924. [...]
RELATED TO: Cornstalk Fiddle and a Shoestring Bow; Prettiest Little Girl/Gal in the County-O/Country/World; What'cha Goin' to Do with the Baby; Baby-O; Hell Up Hickory Holler; Who’s Been Here Since I’ve Been Gone?
[...] NOTES: Typical lyrics found in the chorus are “How in the world do the old folks know/That I like sugar in my coffee-o.” Sugar in my Coffee-O is one of a large group of songs that originated from the chorus of Dandy Jim from Caroline:"...
There are three distinct branches of songs that have evolved from Dandy Jim from Caroline. Because they are from the same family the titles and lyrics are interrelated. There are different versions from both black and white sources:
1) The Prettiest Little Girl in the County-O: Includes the titles “Prettiest Little Gal in the Country-O” and “Prettiest Gal in the County-O.” Recorded by Skillet Lickers in 1924.
2) Sugar in my Coffee-O: Includes the titles Sugar in my Coffee/Sugar in my Coffee-O Wouldn't Give Me Sugar in My Coffee/I Like Sugar in my Coffee-O;
3) What’ll We Do With The Baby-O: Titles include “Baby-O.” There are more recordings in this branch.
From Kuntz: Bayard (1981) thinks there is a relationship between Sugar in my Coffee-O and his Pennsylvania-collected sets of "Up Jumped Jinny With Her Shirt Tail Torn" and this tune. The title appears in a list of traditional Ozark Mountain fiddle tunes compiled by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph, published in 1954.
African-American collector Thomas Talley, in his book Negro Folk Rhymes (reprinted 1991, edited by Charles Wolfe), prints a song called "Sugar in Coffee" that is related to this song, and predates white recorded versions such as Tennessee's Uncle Dave Macon's ("She Wouldn't Give Me Sugar in My Coffee") and Georgia's Fiddlin' John Carson's ("Little More Sugar in My Coffee").
The “Prettiest Girl in the County-O” tune is similar in its melodic contour to "What're We Gonna Do with the Baby-O" and to “Turkey Buzzard.” R.P. Christeson notes similarity to his “Sugar in the Coffee” (Old Time Fiddler’s Repertory, vol. II, No. 129). "A popular 19th century fiddle and play party tune well remembered by older informants across the South" (Charles Wolfe). Jeff Titon says the tune is generally well known in the South, but not frequently found in the repertoires of Kentucky fiddlers. Alan and Elizabeth Lomax recorded the tune for the Library of Congress from the playing of fiddler George C. Nicholson. See also Thomas Tally’s No. 41. [Kuntz]
Meade shows a relationship with Cornstalk Fiddle and a Shoestring Bow/Who’s Been Here Since I’ve Been Gone?/Pretty Little Girl with the Blue Dress On songs to the "Sugar in Coffee" family of songs. Meade also references “Prettiest Little Girl in the County-O” songs to "Dandy Jim from Caroline."
Since the Skillet Lickers recorded “Prettiest Little Gal in the County-O” in 1924, with the “I like sugar in the coffee-o” lyrics, it seem likely that most of the “Sugar in the Coffee” titles and songs came from that recording. Many of the early country groups would play the same song under a different title to avoid copyright problems. They would also change some of the lyrics."...
****
SOME LYRICS FOR THIS SONG
Numbers are added for referencing purposes only. These numbers don't coincide with their order in the cited discussion threads.
From http://bluegrassmessengers.com/sugar-in-the-coffee-o--version-7-carson.aspx SUGAR IN MY COFFEE- Fiddlin' John Carson
"Fiddlin' John Carson's 'Little More Sugar In The Coffee' [Okeh 45542]
One stanza only. It is repeated with the third line left out and the
last line is repeated in isolation.
Prettiest girl in the country-o
Daddy and mammy both said so
All dolled up in calico
Little more sugar in the coffee
Prettiest girl in the country-o
Daddy and mammy both said so
Little more sugar in the coffee
Little more sugar in the coffee
ONLINE EXCERPT #2
From https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=40593 Subject: Sugar In My Coffee
1. From: Stewie, Date: 29 Oct 01 - 08:31 PM
"The Fiddler's Companion entry for this gives the following verses:
SUGAR IN MY COFFEE
Go there once and go no more
If they don't give no sugar in my coffee-o
How in the world's the old folk know
That I'll take sugar in my coffee-o
Sugar's high and sugar's low
But I'll take sugar in my coffee-o
How in the hell's the old folk know
That I'll take sugar in my coffee-o
It refers to versions by Uncle Dave and Fiddlin' John and
gives a precursor from Talley's 'Negro Folk Rhymes':
Sheep's in de meader a-mowin' o' de hay
De Honey's in de bee-gum, so dey all say
My head's up an' I'se boun' to go
Who'll take sugar in de coffee-o? (Similar to Uncle Dave Macon's lyric)*
I'se de prettiest liddle gal in de county-o
My mammy an' daddy, dey bofe say so
I looks in de glass, it don't say, "No"
So I'll take sugar in de coffee-o. (Close to John Carson's
lyric)*
-snip-
*Pancocojams Editor's Note: Those words in parenthesis aren't part of the song lyrics that are found in the 1922 book Negro Folk Rhymes. That book was edited by Black American university professor and folklorist Thomas W. Talley (October 9, 1870 – July 14, 1952) who collected examples from his memories and from his Black American students. Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Talley for information about Thomas W. Talley.
**
Here's an explanation about the term "bee-gum" from https://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=2156 "Sugar in de Coffee-o"
[That website quotes the song lyrics from Talley's Negro Folk Rhymes]
"Notes: *A bee-gum is a bee-hive. Originally it was specifically a
hive found in a hollow log or tree."
**
2. Stewie, Date: 21 Jan 03 - 01:52 AM
..."Fiddlin' Ryan,
This is what I hear Uncle Dave singing. The transcription,
as always, is open for correction. How does it line up with what you hear?
WOULDN'T GIVE ME SUGAR IN MY COFFEE
Instrumental [banjo] introduction.
[Spoken] Hot dog! People, you know, a gentleman asked me last night what I was doing. I said, 'Well, sir, on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, I don't do anything'. He says, 'Well, what do you do on Thursday, Friday and Saturday?' I says, 'Why, I rest'. He says, 'You do anything on Sunday?' 'Oh, yes sir, that's my busiest day'. He says, 'What are you doing on Sunday?' I says, 'Getting ready to do nothing on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday'. Ha! Ha!
I'll be dogged if I can see,
How my little honey got away from me,
Been there once, I'm going home,
Wouldn't give me sugar in my coffee-o
Just one thing that bothers my mind,
A world full of women and none of 'em mine
Been there once, I'm going home,
Wouldn't give me sugar in my coffee-o
Well try to look for a needle in the sand,
Try to find a woman that's got no man
Been there once, I'm going home,
Wouldn't give me sugar in my coffee-o
Jaybird sitting on a hickory limb,
Picked up brickbat took him on the chin - hi-ho mister don't
you do that again,
Brother, you'll kick the bark off a seasoned hickory limb
Been there once, I'm going home,
Wouldn't give me sugar in my coffee-o
Preacher went to Florida, the truth to tell, he went to
Miami at a big hotel,
He went to the beach and the bathing was fine,
Sued for divorce in an hour's time
Been there once, I'm going home,
Wouldn't give me sugar in my coffee-o
Never you mind what your mammy say,
Shake your little foot and sail away,
Been there once, I'm going home,
Wouldn't give me sugar in my coffee-o
Source: transcription of Uncle Dave Macon 'Wouldn't Give Me Sugar In My Coffee' recorded on 8 September 1926 and issued as Vocalion 15440 in December 1926 [also as Vocalion 5002 in February 1927]. Reissued on Uncle Dave Macon 'Wait 'Till The Clouds Roll By 1926-1939' Historical LP HLP-8006 [1975].
Fiddlin' John Carson's 'Little More Sugar In The Coffee' [Okeh 45542] is one stanza only. It is repeated with the third line left out and the last line is repeated in isolation.
Prettiest girl in the country-o
Daddy and mammy both said so
All dolled up in calico
Little more sugar in the coffee"
**
3. GUEST,Bob Coltman, Date: 19 May 09 - 03:06 PM
"Hi Stewie, (only 6 years later ... how's that for quick
response?)
Some suggested changes:
Chorus: Been there once, I wouldn't go no mo'
Jaybird sittin' on a hickory limb,
He looked at me and I looked at him,
Picked up a brickbat, hit him on the chin,
Great Godamighty, don't you do that again.
My theory on the hash Uncle Dave makes of it is that the
A&R man, or perhaps Uncle Dave himself, decided that divine reference was
disrespectful and it caused Uncle Dave to lose track and mess up the verse. He
was a pretty good improviser on the spot, but this one tied him in knots."
**
4. Jim Dixon, Date: 20 May 09 - 09:06 PM
"From an article "Some Play-Party Games of the Middle
West" by Edwin F. Piper, in The Journal of American Folk-Lore, Vol XXVIII,
1915, page 281:
B.
(Western Iowa, 1900.)
1. First your heel, and then your toe,
And I'll take sugar in my coffee, O.
2. How do you think my mammy knows,
I take sugar in my coffee, O.
3. Cornstock fiddle and a shoestring bow,
And I take sugar in my coffee, O.
4. Sugar's high and coffee's low,
And I take sugar in my coffee, O."
**
5. GUEST,Joanne Stevenson, Date: 14 Oct 10 - 11:17 PM
"My children's British kindergarten teacher taught us in
Canada in the 70s
I don't know how the old folks know
I like sugar in my coffee-o
Wind blows high, wind blows low
Blows my sugar and coffee-o
Oh what do I do with the baby-o
What do I do with the baby-o
What do I do with the baby-o
Take him to his mammy-o"
**
6. Azizi, Date: 16 Sep 12 - 10:07 AM
"For those who may be interested, this page on my Cocojams
website http://cocojams.com/content/sugar-my-coffee-o-fiddle-song-early-sources-examples
is a compilation of information, comments about and text examples of the song
"Sugar In My Coffee O".[website no longer available]
Included in that page are several posts from this thread and from another Mudcat thread. That page also includes other examples such as this US civil war recollection:
[Pancocojams Editor's Note 10/21/2022: Here's some information about that link:
"Hood County Texas Genealogical Society; Biographical Note: The William Burns Malone Family;
Experiences Of Early Settlers....
-end of additional information-
And this version from Tennessee Folklore Society Bulletin 5,
April 1939, page 32-33 and quoted on that same online site:
"How in the world did you all know
I like sugar in my coffee so?
Some like it hot, some like it cold,
But I like sugar in my coffee so.
I had a girl named Sally, Oh,
But she won't put sugar in my coffee so.
Up in the hollar the cowbells ring,
The hound dog barks, and the hoot owl sing.
I had a girl Sweet Nancy,
I asked her if she'd marry me.
She says, "I like your manners so,
And I like sugar in my coffee too." "
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