Edited by Azizi Powell
This is Part II of a two part pancocojams series that showcases the YouTube vlog [video blog] by Ghcurls entitled "Being Black in Italy| My Experience".
Part II presents that vlog along with selected comments from that vlog.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2019/12/youtube-video-partial-transcription-of.html for Part I of this post presents that vlog and presents my partial, unofficial transcription of this vlog episode with a focus on the numbered points that Ghcurls made.
The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owner.
Thanks to Ghcurls for this vlog. Thanks also to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2019/12/2017-article-excerpt-leaning-away-from.html for a closely related pancocojams post entitled "2017 Article Excerpt - "Leaning Away From Racial Evaporations in Italy- Reflections on Whiteness, African Americanness and Privilege in Italy" by Candice Whitney"
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SHOWCASE VIDEO: Being Black in Italy| My Experience
Ghcurls, Jan 31, 2018
Hello guys i thought i should do a little talk video and so here you are. These are just some general things you might face as a black person living in Italy. It actually varies. In some cities you might even go unnoticed and in others you will just be one of the many black people.
If you want me to do more of such videos comment in the comment section and i will be glad to make such videos for you
#beingblackinitaly #livinginitalyasablackperson
-snip-
"Ghcurls" is a woman who was born in Ghana, West Africa. From a comment she made in this vlog, she came to Italy when she was in high school.
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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO'S DISCUSSION THREAD
WARNING: This discussion thread contains a great deal of profanity. There's also at least one comment with the pejorative "n" word. None of those comments are given below except with partial spelling.
I also didn't include any comments in this compilation that discuss Italian politics in detail and didn't include any of the few comments that were written in Italian.
I assigned numbers to these comments for referencing purposes only.
1. David Black, 2018
"Interesting video. I spent a lot of time in Veneto, too. It's strange that they think you're American. Italians would assume that I'm not American (I am) but instead from Cuba, Brazil, or Morocco. And when I'd say I'm American, they'd ask me where I originally came from. Talk about stupid!"
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2. BPTB1, 2018
"David Black There's nothing more racist in this planet than fascist Italians."
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3. Gisele Marcelle Findjeu, 2018
"I totally agreed with you my dear, all you said was true. Living in Milan working in office and have a good background i am so proud to tell them I'M AFRICAN, not french or american"
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4. Priscilla Owusu Pankyee, 2018
"It is very true that there are people who would ask you very stupid questions. One white 19 year old Italian girl asked my 60 year old uncle if he stole the car that he drives.I was asked if in Africa we have food to eat and if we even have flat screen TVs.I mean how stupid is that?"
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5. Sir Ace, 2018
"I'm sorry for your experience, though some of your remarks are totally typical of countries that never faced or only recently faced immigration from far countries.
As examples, the silly questions are obvious. I've been living in East Asia and they were sometimes asking me if Italy was one of USA states. Or if all Italians ate only pasta, they were called Mario or they were all Mafia affiliates. I couldn't find deodorant for my skin or products for my hairs. It's part of being an ethnic minority in a far foreign country. I was stared everywhere I went and sometimes insulted when I was dating local girls.
I personally accepted all that stuff as part of my choice in living in such a far foreign country. I can't blame the locals for that.
Add that racism in Italy towards Africans and South East Asians is as recent as the immigration from those areas. And actually it is really recent. Less than 30 years. And 30 years are nothing in terms of social acceptance and integration of diversity."
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6. Marley Barley, 2018
"Sir Ace I think it depends on the number of immigrants and their level of integration. The more the immigrants from x ethnic background (and lack of integration from them) the more they’re targeted for racism.
Albanians + Romanians are the largest ethnic minorities in Italy and as a result they face a lot of racism (also because many of them are criminals) this was also true for Moroccans several years ago as they were the largest ethnic minority.
Recently Bangladeshis have migrated to Italy but because their numbers are relatively small in comparison to others (b/w 100,000-150,000) and many own local grocery shops and aren’t as criminal they don’t face much racism (now if there were 1 million Bangladeshis in Italy they would face a lot more racism)."
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7. Sir Ace, 2018
"Well, what you write it's true but it's a secondary effect. For example, Philippinos have been the largest (or second largest) community of immigrants in Italy for three decades and still now are the fourth largest group. They never faced though much racism if any.
Chinese face some racism where there are the largest and most complex communities like in Prato but overall they are doing fine (more or less).
Albanians today are mostly integrated, I worked with a lot of them and they confirm me that basically racism against them has mostly come to an end.
The point is that most of Albanians worked hard to integrate, despite a big number of them that indulged in criminal activities. For Romanians there is a similar process going on and I think in less than 10 years you would not tell a Romanian from an Italian.
The problem for South Sahara people is that they are visible and recognizible, so the racist ones in Italy have an easy target. Add that some very violent crimes in the last years have been committed by South Sahara illegal immigrants and were widely reported in the media.
Still, I'm quite sure that in short time (maybe 30 years) we will not debate about this issue because it will be solved, since hopefully the African immigrants will try hard to integrate (as the Albanians did) and at the same time the locals will be more accustomed to variety."
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8. Mamadou Lama Diallo, 2018
"Is true my dear"
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9. Priscilla Owusu Pankyee, 2018
"It's not a comfortable country to live in as a foreigner. As much as there are many racists there I've met a lot of good people who treat me with a lot of respect but seriously I don't feel comfortable."
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10. 1FDerek, 2018
"Priscilla Owusu Pankyee It depends if you're a black or white foreigner cause Italians give a lot of importance to skin color. If you're a black foreign they will treat you like sh&t*, if you're a white foreigner with blonde hair and blue eyes the Italians will kiss your ass."
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in this comment.
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11. Priscilla Owusu Pankyee, 2018
"+1FDerek soo true you're right if you're black or Asian they don't respect people"
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12. 1FDerek, 2018
"Priscilla Owusu Pankyee Italians aren't really that racist to Asians but they're racist as hell against blacks, they don't respect blacks at all."
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13. MB-A, 2018
"Living in Pisa, and the staring is on another level. I hate it here and never go anywhere."
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14. Priscilla Owusu Pankyee, 2018
"exactly I don't even want to go out with my Italian friends because when you do people are going to stare at you with you with disgust or curiosity and they look at you the entire time until you leave the place."
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15. la mulata linda Martinez, 2018
"I have lived in Rome for 10 years, my husband is Italian and my children are half Italian. I have never had anyone approach me as a prostitute. Maybe it is the fact that I am African American of Afro Puerto Rican descent. Sometimes I am thought to be Brazilian and people will speak Portuguese to me but I have never had a racist encounter in the 10 years I've lived in Italy. I do agree in the last few years the Fascist strain that is apart of Italy's DNA has shown its ugly head. The immigrants are treated horribly and it is a scary time with 5 Star and Lega coming into power. My kids are small and I hope this latest strain of Fascism is a blip and not the future. I'm sorry that your experience has been so painful. It hurts me to know that people can be so ignorant. I left America to get away from white racism and it seems that everywhere we are with Europeans racism shows its ugly face. My husband and his family are the Italy that I love, good people who love humanity. My father in law is a lawyer that helps immigrant families, get housing and find jobs. But I will agree there is a feeling here now that I didn't feel when I first came here. I haven't had anyone be racist with me yet but the mood is ominous. Good luck to you sister."
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16. Sahada Beloved, 2018
"+la mulata linda Martinez I had to ask sorry.but are you light skinned?."
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17. 1FDerek, 2018 [This is written in response to another comment]
"Gray The majority of you Italians are not racist? Yeah sure, that's why the racist fascist of the Northern League won the latest election in Italy and the Northern League leader Matteo Salvini is the most important and powerful politician in Italy right now."
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18. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek What led to their election though? Ask yourself that and think wisely. Most Italians are not racist. Ten years ago many Italians were, but they’ve changed immensely within a decade. Italians have been rescuing hundreds and thousands of refugees weekly, if not daily, and welcoming them with open arms for ten *years*, so how are they racist? To me this shows how they’re welcoming towards all regardless of ethnicity + religion.
Unemployment for locals is high, their economy is a mess, the EU (more like Germany) enforced austerity on them, and enforced the euro currency on them (which is destructive for Southern Europe but beneficial for Germany), the mass immigration is too much and too overwhelming; Europe can’t accept the whole, half, quarter, or even one fifth of the population of Africa and the Middle East, these are reasons why neo-fascists and populists are in power. All of these problems need to be addressed."
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19. Right Says Ted, 2018
"Marley Barley Wrong, I'm Italian and I can confirm that most Italians are racist."
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20. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley Well, to be honest Italy has always been a quite racist country, it's not something that started recently: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_Race
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21. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek Not necessarily true, pale, blonde, blue eyed Romanians or east Europeans aren’t treated well."
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22. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley Romanians and other Eastern European immigrants are treated quite well in Italy, I met a lot of them when I was in Italy."
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23. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek Not really, Romanians and Albanians have been heavily discriminated against"
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24. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley Not now, I met a lot of Romanians and Albanians when I was in Italy, many of them have good job and there are many Romanian and Albanian women who are married to Italian men. From what I saw in Italy Eastern European immigrants are treated much better than those blacks who are born and bred in Italy."
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25. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek I think it’s because they’re - they being Albanians and Romanians - now starting to integrate, their people are known for committing a lot of crime when they first arrived.
I’ve heard western black people like American/Canadian/British/etc black people are treated better than born and bred Italian black people...but I know many who are in mixed relationships with Italian men (many have their own YouTube channels)."
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26. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley Well, let's say that black westerns from countries like America, England and Canada are quite rare in Italy and most of them are tourists, but it's true that those blacks who are born and bred in Italy are treated very bad. Italy reminded me of the south of the US during the Jim Crow laws era."
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27. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek What the hell?! Surely it can’t be that bad, i think you’re exaggerating. What’s your ethnicity and what country are you from?
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28. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley I'm a black dude from US, I lived in Italy for a couple of years because of my job, I'm not exaggerating, I'm just telling what I saw with my own eyes."
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29. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek I always knew it was tough being raised in Italy as a black person with African parents but I didn’t think it was Jim Crow level of unbearable."
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30. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley Yes, it's very bad. Blacks who were born and bred in Italy and who studied in Italy go through a lot of racism and discrimination, they're considered like third class citizens and they're excluded from the Italian society. It's very sad."
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31. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek I’ve come across at least 5 (if not more) youtube channels of interracial Italian and black couples with their mixed children, none of them ever mentioned racism was a problem for both them or their mixed children. There’s some ignorance and curiosity but nothing like being a third class citizen. I’ve heard only good things from Bangladeshis living in Italy too.
I’m appalled by what I’m reading, can I ask you how they’re discriminated against? And in what way are they treated like third class citizens?"
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32. 1FDerek, 2018
"Marley Barley Well, you should know that since you're Italian and you live in Italy : )"
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33. Marley Barley, 2018
"1FDerek I’m mostly Irish with partial Bangladeshi heritage (i look white) raised in the uk and lived in the Netherlands for a while. Where did I say I’m Italian? I just read about Italian politics."
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34. Arianna E, 2018
"italy is like the last place to go to escape racism if ur coming from america lmaoo"
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35. André K., 2018
"@Arianna E Exactly, maybe going to England or France or some other country, not to fascist land Italy, lmao."
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36. Priscilla Owusu Pankyee, 2018
"The thing you said about stares in the beginning is soo true.I am a black girl born and raised in Italy and I can confirm that this is true.Some look at you as if they don't know that there is such a thing as the black race as if you are an alien.From the way you talked I can tell you are bitter towards Italy and that you don't like living there.Personally I don't feel comfortable in the country now I live in France and I feel more comfortable there because the racial integration is much better over there."
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37. Sir Ace, 2018
"Indeed. I hope for a future without racism in Italy and I also hope for a good integration of all the newer Italians. I do really hope that they'll feel Italians as soon as possible. On the other hand I'm not so ingenous to think it will be a short process. Italians don't really know how to behave with cultures they don't know. Second generation Italians need to be patient and help the more historic Italians to understand that in the end we will all be Italians. Maybe it will not happen tomorrow and still in France there is a lot of racism but I feel that in Italy there will be less cultural segregation. Even because in France the banlieu housing system only slowed down integration (as the many terrorist attacks from radicalized 2nd/3rd generation French, English and Belgians demonstrated). In Italy the immigrants live more side by side with Italians."
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38. Teena W., 2018
"You are so wrong about the majority of what you're saying, I lived in Rome in Trastevere and did not experience any of this prostite stuff. And there are several black hair salons and beauty supply stores... There is one big black hair supply store by the termini station in Rome. Please don't speak for all black people because yes I'm Black American and I noticed the different of treatment but it's still depends on YOUR reaction to things on how your experiences will be. My experience living in Rome as a Business English Teacher was quite positive and sure I was asked where in America I was from and they would want to know more, it's ok because i know it is out of genuine interest. Of course if you're black in Italy we are gonna get looked at, because we are in Italy... Duh!😏"
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39. It's kris Btw, 2018
"Teena W. How is she wrong? Its her experience, and to be corrective here, you don't look like her, your skin is lighter, so of course you and her experiences are vastly different."
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40. Teena W., 2018
"It's kris Btw Well, Kris I know she's talking about her experience on how she was treated but when she said ALL Black people are thought of as prostitutes in Italy, That was wrong and when she said there were no hair products for Black people or hairnsalonss in Rome that was also wrong. I never challenged her opinion on how SHE was treated by Italians because of course I'm American and my experience will be different for sure. But she was wrong about the things I mentioned."
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41. 1FDerek, 2018
"It's kris Btw Exactly, the darker is your skin, the worst the Italians treat you. If you're pale, blonde and with blue eyes the Italians will kiss your ass."
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42. ramarr0, 2018
"I noticed that black people coming from USA in general report a better experience in Italy than black people coming from African countries."
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43. HAT, 2019
"It is because Italians have a thing for Americans = NICE TREATMENT"
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44. BPTB1, 2019
"@HAT I can assure you that Italians are racist against black Americans too. It happened to me when I was in Italy and I'm a black American man from Brooklyn Heights."
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45. Courtney Henley, 2018
"You have some seriously weird issues and this was both stupid and untrue! I lived in Italy for two years and no one - NO ONE - ever thought I was a prostitute or stared at me with disgust. This is something that YOU are putting out because I was adored by the Italians and never had any issue."
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46. Mercedes B, 2018
"Courtney Henley are you even black? From your pic you don’t look black"
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47. Tasha Mack, 2018
"Courtney Henley Are you fully black?"
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48. 1FDerek, 2018
"Courtney Henley The darker is your skin the worst the Italians will treat you. If you're pale, blonde and with blue eyes the Italians will kiss your ass."
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49. Ghcurls, 2018
"well you lived for 2 years. I have been here for long so i don't expect you to tell me i have weird issues. Talk to me when you stay here for 10 years"
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50. Sahada Beloved, 2018
"Courtney from your picture.you are light skinned right?. OK girl sit somewhere. never knock down someone's experience because you haven't experienced it. if you were to get on YouTube and talk about being sexually assaulted does that mean I have the right to condemn you because I haven't?. you are either trolling or just plain empathetic"
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51. Rho A, 2018
"Courtney Henley You're being hostile and You're not even truly black! No wonder you fled from the responses. You want us all to live vicariously through your light skin? 🤣 Get real."
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52. Caroline Obonyo, 2018
"Courtney Henley. Your skin is not black. U could easily pass for being white. Case closed. Amen."
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53. Malika Diza, 2019
"Courtney Henley I’ve been in Rome for a week and I’ve been stared at multiple times in disgust"
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54. 1FDerek, 2019
"[names of three previous commenters] Italians are worldwide recognized as the worst and the most racist European colonizers in Africa."
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55. Salvatore Lanzieri, 2019
"1FDerick The problem is Italians dont trust most foreigners Period.. Not just subsahran poor negroes. Especially recently because there are so many subsahran africans. Nigerians especially have given africans a bad name ! they prostitue there own sisters,they sell hard drugs etc etc. The nigerians and most africans also come with no trades or skils ! So what will they do ? Just beg and get state money ? The fact is we look at you in this way ! And another thing ,older Italian men will not let there daughters date africans period. And thats why 99% you will not end up with them ."
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56. 1FDerek, 2019
"@Salvatore Lanzieri Salvatore Lanzeri You Italians have ALWAYS been very racist against blacks, it certainly didn't start today. Italians have a long history of racism against blacks."
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57. Salvatore Lanzieri, 2019
"Geeeze thats funny because before the 1990s there were only a few african migrants in cities . and before the 1950s there were none . so how were we always prejudice ??? during ww2 we were in north africa but that was war. So nice try ! But once again Derek your wrong . They have wifi in subsahra ? oh thats right your in America !! ahahaha!!!!"
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58. Marcel Tresvant, 2019
"@Salvatore Lanzieri What about the Italian fascist racial laws against black people? What about Benito Mussolini and the gassing of the Ethiopians? Nice try dude but everyone who went to school knows about it."
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59. Marcel Tresvant, 2019
"Salvatore Lanzieri War has nothing to do with that stupid idiot. The Italian fascist racial laws were made against those citizens of the Italian kingdom who were black, like people who lived in the Italian colonies of Africa. Idiot."
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60. FataLFreaKZz, 2019
"Marcel Tresvant Omg what a stupid person ... in 1940s black people didn’t have any right in all Europe... The racial laws made because of being an ally of Germany were against Jews, not Africans that especially France and English were enslaving"
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61. 1FDerek, 2019
"@FataLFreaKZz The Italian fascist racial laws were not only against Jews but also against those blacks who lived in the Italian colonies in Africa (Eritrea, Somalia, Ethiopia). They weren't made in 1940s but in the 1930s. It's not true that blacks in 1940 didn't have any right in Europe, racial laws were only in fascist Italy and in nazi Germany."
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62. RW M, 2019
"Wish i had watched before i landed hahaha this is 100% true. The stares are giving me anxiety."
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63. The Renaissance Amazon, 2019
"RW M Damn. That’s making me not want to go."
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64. BPTB1, 2019
"@The Renaissance Amazon I'm a black American man and because of my job I lived in Italy for a period some years ago. Italy is freakin' SCARY if you're black. Lots of fascists and a lot of fascist racist graffiti in the Italian towns. It looks like still living in the world war 2 era. Most racist and scary place where I've been."
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65. Ej khan, 2019
"Im a british born muslim i got married to an Italian Muslim. I spent most of my time in milan and the staring i got..omg... They made me feel as if I was an alien lol. They talk about u infront of you thinking u dont understand .. Look at you up and down... Not most people talk English so its hard to communicate .. Most of them are racist but not all.. I get you sister x gota say no country beats the humanity and right we all get in the uk."
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66. Malika Diza, 2019
"I’ve been in Rome for a week and the people here are unfriendly, and they stare at you straight in the eyes and I got so annoyed with it that I just started saying hello 🤦🏾♀ but yeah most people just keep to themselves here and I figured if they wanna be racist then that’s their problem not mine...🤷🏾♀"
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67. alex ojideagu, 2019
"That's very strange for a major capital city, even in Italy they should be used to black people. Nobody stares in London or Paris just because you're black."
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68. 1FDerek, 2019
"@alex ojideagu Rome is a very particular case, cause it's a big city with a village mentality.
-snip-
This sub-thread included a comment exchange between Malika Diza and Ghcurls, the video producer, indicating that they would be in direct contact with each other in Rome."
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This concludes Part II of this pancocojams series.
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