Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post highlights comments from the discussion thread of Iyanya's song "Kukere" about the influence Caribbean music has had on African music and vice versa.
The content of this post is presented for folkloric and cultural purposes
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post. Thanks also to Iyanya for his musical contribution that is showcased in this post and thanks to the publisher of this video on YouTube.
Click "http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2015/09/iyanya-nigerian-afrobeat-song-kukere.html for a previous pancocojams post on Iyanya's "Kukere". That post includes the lyrics to that song and some information about Iyanya and about that song.
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SHOWCASE VIDEO: Iyanya - Kukere [Official Video]
officialiyanya, Published on May 14, 2012
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SUB-THREAD: CARIBBEAN MUSIC'S INFLUENCE ON AFRICAN MUSIC
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBoV1VSpKLo#t=45.168396
Note: This is the complete sub-thread from that discussion thread as of the date of this post's publication. These comments are numbered for referencing purposes only.
1. Gian Gayle, 2014
"This has nothing to do with black, ancestors, etc... There is no such thing as a" black culture" since Africa is one of the most diverse places in the world, when it comes on to culture, tribes and languages. Caribbean music and dancing is quite popular in Africa. No one can tell me that these modern day Nigerian music and dancing, did not have influence from Caribbean music. I know you will say "whining" is African, yes it is. In a foolish way, our whining is somewhat more advance. I am not talking about that aspect of our culture, for our dancing is not just whining. I am talking about their movements. West Indian culture is a melting pot of different cultures. Do not tell me we got our dances and rhythms influences from Africa only! For to take something from another country, would be like a replica (cultural wise). We have influences from Africa, yes. Along with many other cultural influences from all around the world. In the end, we created our own identity with the "melting pot".Admit the fact that Our Caribbean culture has influence on modern day Nigerian music. "
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2. IAMTOLANI31, 2014
"Other way around mate"
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3. emperor8483, 2014
"well as a Nigerian, i understand what you mean but this particular song has no Caribbean influence, also Caribbean music is well influenced by African instruments and sounds which is FACT and yes some Nigerian music have samples of Caribbean beats e.g bam bam, when it comes to dancing lol the basics of almost every Caribbean dance is from African, e.g one drop(Jamaica), is traditionally known as etighi in southeast Nigeria, you can see the girls in this video doing the traditional dance with traditional attire. assuming this comment was made in a video that actually have samples of Caribbean music, i would have known that you knew what you were talking about but because this song sounded like what you hear in the Caribbean you thought it was influenced by Caribbean music while the reverse is the case. Truth of the matter is that a lot of Caribbeans and Americans have a lot to learn about Africa."
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4. alima ABDOULAYE, 2014
"Do you know where the caribbean population is originated from??????"
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5. Scopps94, 2014
"Your comment is very bias and toxic. Your concept is all jumbled, yes you have pride in your islands. But don't come on here and try and claim ownership of the style of music and dance.
Just stop. Caribbeans love this song, leave it to that and shut up with your shenanigans please, it's ridiculous."
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6. Scopps94, 2014
"And also To me The Caribbean islands are nothing more than just African occupation."
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7. alima ABDOULAYE, 2014
"Thank you Scopps94.teach him some history"
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8. stargyal shabine, 2014
"are u serious gian gayle? smh"
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9. Mike Weller, 2014
"Seriously Gian Gale! Dah weh kinda schtupedness you di taak bwai.
Now you translate that if you can buddy!"
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10. superAweber, 2014
"I'm Nigerian. I think people genuinely don't know. So they can't admit what they don't know. I know you're right because I heard Nigerian music in the 80s. To my ears it was lacking. I heard old latin-american inspired Congolese pop from the 1960s when I was a kid. So I had already heard latin beats in African music and I loved it. Later in the UK, I searched and searched for this kind of music. I listened to Cuban, Puerto Rican and Colombian music and a bit of Soca. (I still have a CD called Africa to Cuba - it's like a precursor to Afrobeats). 20 years later I found exactly what I was looking for in Afrobeats and I love it the most. But younger people have no idea that Afrobeats rhythms are inspired from Latin (ie Spanish) American percussion and also a bit of the Carribean. They don't know and can't know because they aren't widely musically educated. But it's no big deal! The artists don't hide it! In a few songs they even sing in Jamaican patois! Timaya's beat sometimes sounds like 100% soca. The arrangement in "Sanko" is partly Jamaican, with that interlude near the end. In Flavour's song "Ashawo" the melody is straight, 100% from a Cuban song "Peanut Seller". Wizkid has a song "Only one she wants" which is a cover of a song by Popcaan (Jamaican I think?). Burna Boy raps in patois as well as pidgin. Again people can't know if they're not musically exposed. Probably any of the older Nigerians who lived abroad for a while would know this.
The other influences are from French West Africa and Congo. Different artists take influence from a specific area. I gave examples above. This particular artist, Inyanya, often has French West African sounds and rhythms in his music.
Oh before someone misunderstands. I'm not saying they're *copying. Afrobeats is a *fusion of Nigerian plus many different influences. That *fusion is new and unique and it's a big achievement and probably very hard to do."
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11. DonCapoeira, 2014
"+superAweber
Still if you listen to the guitar music and background guitar rhythm, there is a distinctive Highlife influence, almost purely so. To discount that completely is to rob Nigeria of it's musical past and act as though it did not exist. Go listen to highlife and afrobeat music from artists like Fela. I hear more Highlife than Carribean in this. Maybe some of the way they structure beats might have some dancehall influence but the sound is African purely. If you're truly Nigerian then this should be obvious to you. I'm Nigerian and American and grew up listening to all types of music from hip hop to dancehall/reggae, to my parents highlife collection.
There are even Carribean ppl who think that Ashawo (which is a word-for-word and beat-for-beat remake of Sawale from the 1950s) is a remake of a Jamaican song from the 1980s. Come on Nigerian music has been evolving on it's own with some outside influences but we had our own sound for quite some time. The only reason why noone heard it until recently is the same reason many Americans never watched soccer until recently, lack of access to it. Itunes and Youtube have connected us and given Nigerians access to new markets with their own music, something that Jamaicans (due to their proximity to the US) have benefited from for decades."
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12. superAweber, 2014
"+DonCapoeira Please, please don't create create a "straw man" position that I never took. I never said there's no Nigerian influence. What I'm contesting is the attitude that there is no Carribean or latin influence whatsoever.
Reposting my last sentence: "Oh before someone misunderstands. I'm not saying they're *copying. Afrobeats is a *fusion of Nigerian plus many different influences. That *fusion is new and unique and it's a big achievement and probably very hard to do."
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13. davies99313, 2014
"And where did your own influence in Caribbean music come from, since it must come from somewhere else that is not in your locality? Presently people are gradually digging up old things from their cultures while searching for inspiration that could help them bring out new things. This music was created from Etighi dance of the Efiks. Iyanya himself said it on an interview, that he just decided to go back to this traditional dance 'Etighi' that has been existing in his culture since time immemorial. You can even hear him mention etighi in this song if I really heard him clearly. You also need to note that the bulk of diverse African or let's just say the bulk of the diverse Nigerian traditional music can never be exhausted in the near future. Do you know the uncountable number of traditional melodic and rhythmic styles in each ethnic group that are yet to be explored and exploited for show biz? It's true that sometimes Africans and Carribeans sound similar but it's also easy to explain because your music took off from the African music. Most of the sounds I hear in the Nigerian music presently are mainly sounds I can easily relate to certain traditional music. Many of yours too I can also relate them to some traditional African music I know. I however still believe that there is some level of external influences both from Africa and outside Africa but not to the degree you guys do try to project, as if though Africans could never do anything on their own. Moreover you owe African music far more than you can claim Africans owe you."
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14. kicha cooper,2014
"Carribean music has his whole influence from africa , the slaves from africa were brought to Carribean to work for white people - carribean music is african music u fool"
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15. Khadijah Henry, 2014
"+alima ABDOULAYE Do you? Lemme guess, you think we just originate from Africa right? Lol. You clearly missed the whole 'melting pot' analogy stated in the original comment."
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16. oprah7, 2015
"+Gian Gayle lol What? Jamaicans came from Nigeria and Ghana. I'm Jamaican I know my history. Our music and dance was influenced by only africa no other countries. Our food was influenced by india with curry, but mostly African. smh what melting pot? Out of many one people was an ideology not a fact. When that statement was written the country was over 97% black, now it's slightly more mixed and people want to call us a melting pot? I only use jamaica because it has the largest influence in the Caribbean. Please take a class at your local university on Caribbean studies and learn your facts. - a Jamaican"
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17. davies99313, 2015
"Curry is also used in African dishes. I saw my Jamaican friends eating a local food and it was almost entirely prepared the way my culture does; both the ingredients and the food and also for similar nutritional reasons as in my culture"
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18. Diplomatic Worrior, 2015
"You are definitely one of the arrogant and stupidly ignorant Caribbean people with little knowledge of history. Africa was in existence before Caribbean was created.
Caribbean people are more than average the people of African descent
The few minority of Caribbean (British, French, Hispanics and native Indians)"
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19. oriolori89, 2015
"+Gian Gayle who are you again? shut up idiot our music has nothing to do with some nonentity island culture [profanity phrase abbreviations deleted]? you are an idiot"
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20. Abraham Malu, 2015
"+Khadijah Henry, why don't you point out the European, Amerindian, East Indian and Chinese influences in Caribbean music since you are a melting pot of all those cultures? Am curious."
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21. Abraham Malu, 2015
"+davies99313 , there some East Indians in Africa too. Curry is Indian."
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22. davies99313, 2015
"+Abraham Maru You don't know what you are talking about. You have curry and we have curry too. So stop talking what you don't know."
-snip-
This is the end of that sub-thread to date [March 24, 2017; 8:25 PM]. However, there were additional comments on that discussion thread that referenced the subject of that sub-thread and/or referred to one or more commenters in that discussion. Here are three of those comments to date [given without any numbers assigned.)
jenntopp1, 2014
"Caribbean music, and even a lot of South American music has its origins from African beats, that's why black music crosses the board, to argue otherwise is just plain stupid, know your TRUE history and forget what the western schools and the media is teaching you."
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ShardaeAlisha, 2014
"I swear every African song or music video has someone comparing Caribbeans to Africans. Alot of Caribbeans were slaves from West Africa hence why there are similarities in dancing and music. We need to stop dividing ourselves. Enjoy the music"
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Asedri Amin Amin, 2014
+Gian Gayle It's so sad you do not have an academic understanding to compare Caribbeans to continental Africa when it comes to culture! For you to think Caribbean culture influences Nigerian music, is the same like saying your stinky [profanity deleted] ass look like the British, Franch or Indian who were in the island before your great grandparents! The British and Frenchman did not want the slaves to be taught in anyway or other! The Indian culture was totally subliminally, How exactly did the Caribbeans archive multi racial culture? They were left ignorant until this day. Alot of Africans accepted Bab Marley musical talent because of the massage it carries, but not for geniuses in music industry! Behind doors Africa is interacting with Caribbeans, honestly we don't give a [profanity deleted] if Caribbean exist or cease to exist 😄😃😃😃😃😃😃😃"
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