Switching Places" Children's Ring Games (Part 1-Description. Examples, & Other Comments)

Edited by Azizi Powell

[This is a complete reprint of the latest update of a 2014 post on this subject that was published on my cocojams2 blog. https://cocojams2.blogspot.com/2014/11/switching-places-ring-games-part-1.html. That post remains on that blog which features information and examples of English language children's recreational rhymes and singing games]. 

This is Part I of a two part cocojams2 series on switching places ring games. This post provides a general description of and some examples of those types of types of ring (circle) games...

Click http://cocojams2.blogspot.com/2014/11/little-sally-walker-ride-that-pony_9.html for Part II of this series. Part II provides text and video examples of two contemporary "switching places" circle games: "Little Sally Walker" (Walking Down The Street) and "Ride That Pony". 

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, cultural, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
-snip-
This post originally only focused on the two contemporary children's "switching places" singing games "Little Sally Walker (Walking Down The Street)" and "Ride That Pony". The Bahamian singing game "Rock My Cherry" was also mentioned in the originally version of this post.

In September 2026 I added references in this post regarding two additional (and much older) children's "switching places" singing games ""Little Johnny Brown" and "Whoa, Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On".
Information about and examples of these singing games can be found in their designated pancocojams posts. 

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GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF SWITCHING PLACES GAMES
"Switching places" games is a term that I coined for a sub-set of ring (circle) games. These games can be considered a variant form of "show me your motion" games.

In standard "show me your motion games" the person in the center of the ring remains in the center and does a brief dance or other movement. The rest of the group who are forming the circle then tries to exactly imitate the movements that the middle person continues to do.

After these portions of the singing game, the middle person uses some strategy to choose the new middle person. One strategy is to walk up to a person forming the ring and immediately exchange places with that person. Another strategy is for the middle person to cover her or his eyes with one hand while turning around in the middle of the ring and pointing to the people forming the ring. At the end of the song, the person who the middle person is pointing to becomes the new middle person. The old middle person trades places with that person and the game immediately begins from the beginning.    

In contrast, in "switching places" singing games, the middle person moves to face one particular person who remains standing in her or his place forming the ring (the circle). That person is sometimes referred to as the middle person's "partner". That partner might be  chosen on purpose or randomly chosen. When the middle person does her or his movements, the person she or he is standing in front of must also do the same movement.

According to the different ways that these games are played, the rest of the group may simply stand and watch the two people perform movements or they might continue to sing and clap (and in some renditions also stomp their feet) to the beat. However, in "switching places games, the people forming the ring don't attempt to do the actions performed by the center person and her or his partner. After the old center person and her or his partner perform movements together (according to the words of that song), the old center person switches places with her or his partner who becomes the new center person and the game immediately begins again from the beginning.

Sometimes large groups have two (or more) center persons at the same time. Each one stands in front of another person in the ring, and plays the game as lyrics describe. Having more than one center person is probably a modification of the original format because adults directing the play experience (and the group members themselves) wanted to have as many people in the group participating in thee game as possible in the short amount of time that may be allotted for these games.

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EXAMPLES OF "SWITCHING PLACES" RING GAMES THAT ORIGINATED WITH AFRICAN AMERICANS
I believe that the "switching places" singing games are of African American origin because of their words and because of their performance activities.

Given in no particular order, some examples of these switching places singing games are:
"Little Johnny Brown"

"Whoa, Mule. Can't Get The Saddle On"
  
"Little Sally Walker" (Walking Down The Street)

and "Ride That Pony".

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AN EXAMPLE OF A "SWITCHING PLACES" RING GAME FROM THE CARIBBEANICA
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/07/examples-of-show-me-your-motion.html for a pancocojams post about the children's singing game from the Bahamas entitled "Rock My Cherry" and other Bahamian children's recreational ring plays (circle games).

Update: 2026] The video for that pancocojams post is no longer available. In that video, the performance of the singing game "Rock My Cherry" was performed with sensual hip winding and pelvic thrust dance movements. Those performances would probably be considered too sexualized by many Americans.

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HOW OLD IS THE SWITCHING PLACES" METHOD OF CHOOSING THE NEXT CENTER PERSON IN RING GAMES?
I'm not sure how old this method of choosing the next center person is, but here are dates for some examples of "Little Sally Walker (Walking Down The Street)  that I've found thus far:

The old "Little Sally Walker" Ring Game dates at least from the early 1950s (as per my recollections of that game in Atlantic City, New Jersey:

Little Sally Ann
Sitting in the sand
A weepin and a cryin
For a nice young man.
Rise, Sally, rise
Wipe your weepin eyes
Turn to the East
And turn to the West
And turn to the one
That you love the best.   

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LITTLE SALLY WALKER
Little Sally Walker,sittin’ in a saucer,

weepin' and cryin’ cause nobody loves her.
Rise Sally rise wipe your weepin’ eyes
put your hands on your hip,
and let your backbone slip.
Oh, shake it to the East;
Oh, shake it to the West.
Shake it to the very one that you love the best.

The game of Little Sally Walker is for ages 7 – 12

Here's a description of the action that accompanied this rhyme: Prior to song starting- Girls form a circle; one girl is chosen to be “Sally”

1st line- "Sally" sits down on the inside of the circle (as if sitting in a saucer) and pretends to weep and cry; the rest of the circle walks counter-clockwise holding hands and walking to the song’s beat

2nd line & line 3 -“Sally” remains inside the circle but now rises to stand in the center part of the circle and does what the rhyme is saying(wipes her eyes); the rest of the group is now standing still and claps their hands and stomps their feet to the beat.

3rd line & 4th line -Sally now stops and puts her hands on her hip and moves her hip into a dip and the girls in the circle who performed this rhyme stand still while "Sally" in the middle performs a movement.

As the rhyme progresses the children forming the ring try to exactly imitate Sally's movements (they shake their hips to movements the same time Sally does) on the words to the East the hips move to the right, and on the words to the West the hips move to the left.

Still standing in front of whoever Sally may stop in front of "Sally" continues doing the same dance or movement of her hips that she did previously.

5th- On the words you love the best Sally is standing still and facing the girl she stopped in front of, now the game is over; the former “Sally” rejoins the ring, and the new Sally immediately enters the center of the ring and the game begins again. When both boys and girls play this game together the game takes on a little more interest.
-Anna R., Cocojams.com, 5/8/2008
-snip
Anna Robinson's memories of the mid 1950's written when she was in her 60's.

This entry was reformatted for this post.
-snip-
Click http://cocojams2.blogspot.com/2014/11/african-american-singing-games-movement.html "African American Singing Games & Movement Rhymes (A-L)" for more examples of "Little Sally Walker" and its newer version "Little Sally Walker (Was Walking Down The Street)"

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ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND EXAMPLES OF TWO CONTEMPORARY "SWITCHING PLACES" CIRCLE GAMES

Early Collection Dates For "Little Sally Walker" (Walking Down The Street)
1999 - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (collected by Azizi Powell)

The oldest example of "Little Sally Walker" (Walking Down The Street) that I've found is one that I observed being played by African American girls (under age 12 years) in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (1999):

Little Sally Walker was walkin down the street.
She didn’t know what to do so she stood in front of me.
I said ooh girl do your thing.
Do your thing, Stop!
I said ooh girl do your thing.
Do your thing, Stop!
-African American girls (about 7-9 years old), Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (North View Heights Public Housing Program), 1999; collected by Azizi Powell, 1999
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A full description of its performance activity can be found in cocojams2: African American Singing Games & Movement Rhymes (A-L) link that is given above.

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2001 - summer camp game, as mentioned by LNL in a 2004 comment posted to a Mudcat (online folk music forum) discussion thread: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4300#1126685 "Children's Street Songs"
LNL wrote that she first came across "Little Sally Walker (Walking Down The Street) and "Ride That Pony" when she was a camp counselor "three years ago" (resulting in 2001 as the year she saw those games). LNL described "Little Sally Walker (Walking Down The Street" as "Little Sally Walker" being reincarnated." Here's that example:

"Little Sally Walker,/walking down the street.
She didn't know what to do, so/she jumped in front of me and said:
'Hey, girl, shake that thing,/shake that thing like it ain't no thing.
Come on, girl, shake that thing,/shake that thing like it ain't no thing."

LNL also wrote that campers played the game "Ride That Pony". The words to that game are found in Part II of this series.

LNL's post implied that both of those games were new to her. But I'm not sure if those games were new to those campers. LNL also indicated that those two games were favorites of the campers and that staff often had to stop their performances from getting "too involved".

Unfortunately, LNL didn't mention how the camp was played, where the camp was. Nor did she give any demographical information about the campers. However, given that the majority of Mudcat bloggers are from the United States, and given that LNL also wrote that "We also did the fairly innocuous "Wisconsin Milk" song, and a ton of other call-and-responses that don't quite qualify as street games", a likely conclusion is that the camp was located in the United States.

That forum's archiving feature show that LNL only posted five times on Mudcat- all between February 1, 2004 and March 9, 2004. So the possibilities of retrieving demographical information from that blogger are quite slim. That said, I use "around 2001" as the oldest example that I've found for the "Ride That Pony" singing game.

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2003 -A rhyme that includes "Little Sally Walker (Walking Down The Street" is included in the 2003 American movie "Soul Of Rock" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvGia9u1McM.
-snip-
The poster of that YouTube video rachelarmstrong (January 24, 2008) included the words to that rhyme on the video clip screen shot. The words she gave are:

Soul Sister Number Nine
Sock it to me one more time
Say Ungawa we got the power
Say Ungawa we got the power

Little Sally Walker's walking down the street
She didn't know what to do so she jumped in front of me

She said "go on girl, do your thing do your thing
go on, girl do your thing, do your thing. Stop!!

-snip-
As a (friendly) amendment to that transcription, I hear the two chanters saying "Say Unn Ungawa. We got the powa. Say Unn Ungawa. We got the powa."

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"Ride That Pony"
2001-The oldest example of "Ride That Pony" that I've found is in the 2oo4 Mudcat comment by LNL (link given above). That comment mentions campers playing that game three years ago.

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WHO PLAYS THESE GAMES
Unlike many ring games that are currently played in the United States, "switchng places" ring games are not only played by very young children but have also been adopted by older children, teenagers, and (usually young) adults. Furthermore, unlike many ring games, males appear to play these switching games much more readily and eenthusiastically than they play other singing or chanting games, with the exception of hand slapping games such as "Down By The Banks Of The Hanky Panky" and "Stella Ella Ola".

For children, the lightly competitive hand slapping games and the non-competitive "switching places" games may often be adult initiated (for instance, as part of an elementary school's school's music class). However, those games sometimes appear to be initiated by the children themselves.

For children, teens, and adults, those hand slaping games and the switching places games are played as "ice breakers" (getting to know people activities), as stress relieving activities, and "just for fun" by members of sports teams, cheerleaders, summer campers, performing arts groups, and school and university students.

"Ride That Pony" 's movements are indicated by that song's lyrics. But what makes "Little Sally Walker" (Walking Down The Street) fun to play and fun to watch is the different dances or moves that different center people do. As is the case with older "show me your motion" games, in "Little Sally Walker" (Walking Down The Street) each center person is supposed to perform a dance or movement that is different from those that were performed by any center person who camee before her (or him). That said, I've also come across videos of both of those games in which every center person does the same dance. Those videos are much less interesting to watch.

Additional text examples and video examples of those two games are found in Part II of this series.

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Visitor comments are welcome.

Examples Of "Bobo Ski Otten Wotten" Rhymes (Or Similar Titles) With Decade & City/State Demographics

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision - May 28, 2026

This pancocojams post presents a compilation of examples of the children's recreational rhyme "Bobo Ski Otten Wotten" that include the decade and geographic location (city/state in the United States) that the commenter remembers chanting or hearing that example. 

The earliest date that I've come across thus far for an example of "Bobo Ski Otten Wotten" (or similar titles) is the 1940s.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, and recreational purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all these contributors of these examples.
-snip-
To be clear, I still believe that the source of the "otten totten" words in examples of "Bobo Ski Watten Totten" (and similar titles) is the Black American song entitled "Who Dare" that was published in 1845.

Here's an excerpt of that song that includes the "otten totten" words. (Those words serve as the song's chorus)
From https://www.google.com/books
"The Popular National Songster And Lucy Neal And Dan Tucker's Delight: Containing A Choice Collection Of The Most Admired, Patriotic, Comic, Irish, Negro & Sentimental Songs;

published by Perry, John B

Date: 1845

Publication Place: Philadelphia

SKU b00481

"PAGE 155 

 WHO DARE

Come all you jolly [a plural form of "the n word"]
To you the truth I tell, ah
Neber lib wid white folks
For de neber use you well, ah
     -Dingee, I otten totten 
      Ballio otten dotten
      Dingee I otten dotten ,
      WHO DARE?"
-snip-
I used italics for highlighting purposes only.

For the entire composition and my speculation about the meaning of the words in that song, click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/11/a-19th-century-source-for-20th-century.html 
"Who Dare" - The 19th Century Black American Source For The 20th Century United States Hand Clap Rhymes "Bobo Ski Otten Totten".  

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SELECTED EXAMPLES OF "BOBO SKI OTTEN TOTTEN" (AND SIMILAR TITLES) WITH DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION

Before 1970

"My mom told me this was done as a crowd cheer when she was in school in the 1940’s:

Bo bo ski watten tottle, ala sssssssss,
Bo bo ski watten tottle, ala sssssssssss,
Eaten beaten watten tottle
eaten beaten watten tottle,
Bo bo ski watten tottle ala sssssssss."
-submitted by D, https://schoolyardplay.net/bo-bo-ski-watten-totten/
-snip-
This example is an exception to the rule in this compilation of only featuring examples that provide geographic demographics.

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"I learned Bo Bo Ski as a small child in the early 50's. It was a cheer they used at high school football games. My mother cheered it in the late 40's in lower Delaware."
-Cathy Wagner, https://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=2199, "Mama Lisa "Bo Bo Ski Waton Taton" Hand Clapping Rhyme

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1970s

"Oh my gosh, you brought me back to a long-ago summer at camp in Lake Peeksill, NY!(1970?)

I learned this one as:

"Bo-bo-ski-waten-doten,

EH-EH-EH-EH(boom boom boom)

Bo-bo-ski-waten-doten,

EH-EH-EH-EH(boom boom boom)

ITTY-bitty-waten-doten,

bobo-ski-waten-doten,

bobo-ski-waten-doten,

EH

EH

EH!!!!

 

Thanks so much!!"
-Perry, April 7, 2009, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008

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1980s

"Bo bo see watten totten

Eh eh eh eh boom boom boom

Mini mini wa wa bo bo see wa wa

Bo bo see watten boom boom boom~ Cleveland '80s with claps"
-Anonymous, October 25, 2019, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008

**

"Just went searching this on an old memory from summer camp (Massachusetts, early 80s)! So interesting to see all the different versions from all over the northeast! Ours was a hand clap and the words were:

Bo Bo ski waten taten

Na Na, I am Bo Bo

Eeny Meeny waten taten

Bo bo ski waten taten

Bo bo ski waten taten

BOOM! (With a big mutual hand clapTo end it 🙌🏼"
-KayQue, July 9, 2020, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008

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"The way Katie May learned it is exactly how I recall hearing it. It would have either been in Groton, Conn, early 80s, or Hampton VA, mid 80s.

Bobo Shi Otten Totten

Uh-uh, I ain't no fool!

Itty bitty Otten Totten

Bobo Shi Otten Totten

Bobo Shi Otten Totten

Boom!

 

My mind translated it to be an argument between two people, ending with a slap. As a kid, I figured the translation would go something like this...

 

Bobo, she often taught him.

No, I am not a fool.

Lizzy Betty often taught him.

Bobo, she often taught him.

Bobo, she often taught him.

Boom.

 

Anyway, I am convinced that ditty started with actual words, which may or may not have made sense, and much like the whisper game, the words/sounds moved farther away from their origins for each new generation that sang it."
-Anonymous, August 30, 2021, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008

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"We did the "wotten tottem" version late in Miami way back around 1980. Finding this confirms that the words really were gibberish!"
-clunkygirl, April 28, 2023, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008

**

"11 yrs old 1980

Oh Bo say

Rotten Cotton

Oh Bo say

Boom Boom Boom Boom

(faster)

Eeny meeny rotten cotton

Oh Bo say rotten cotton

Eeny meeny rotten cotton

BOOM! "
-Anonymous, October 19, 2023, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008.

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1990s

"The one I did in the 90's near Chicago was like this and it was a complicated group clapping game

Bo bo ski waten ta-ten

Eh Eh, say boys are rotten

(Faster) Bo bo ski waten taten

Eh eh say boys are rotten

Bo bo ski waten taten

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,out!

^As learned in the 1990's near Chicago"
-LadyShakespeare, October 10, 2019, https://kaytmay.blogspot.com/2008/08/childhood-rhymes.html "Childhood Rhymes", Katie May’s Blog, August 27, 2008

**
"As a Minnesotan born in the late 90s, I played this in elementary school. I can’t really remember how it’s played but I can remember kids singing it. I thought it was just some variation on duck, duck, grey duck."
-deleted, 2021, https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/koyoo7/hope_i_dont_stir_up_too_much_controversy_with/ "Obo ski wotten totten or Obo shin otten totten" 

**
"Man this takes me back. We played this in elementary school in the early/mid 90s. Where I went to school, in a suburb just north of St. Paul, we said "obo ski wotten totten."
-KristySueWho, 2021,
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/koyoo7/hope_i_dont_stir_up_too_much_controversy_with/ "Obo ski wotten totten or Obo shin otten totten" 

**
..."Here’s the version I grew up with:

o-bo-oh shi-NA ten-TA-ten
ne-ne-eh ai/em-bum-BUM-bu(m)
i-ty bi-ty-AH-ten-TA-(t)en
o-bo-oh shì-NA ten-TA-ten—
MBU!

[...]

I first remember this song/game from daycare or kindergarten in Farmington, Minnesota, USA, in the mid-1990s.

The movement I remember was a circle hand-slapping elimination game: hands were placed so the slap passed around the circle, then after the chant we counted to ten, and the person whose hand was slapped on ten was out unless they pulled their hand away in time."...
-Thrin, May 26 and May 27, 2026 [two comments], https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/11/a-19th-century-source-for-20th-century.html " "Who Dare"- The 19th Century Black American Source For The 20th Century United States Hand Clap Rhymes "Bobo Ski Otten Totten"
-snip-
These are clips of two long comments that were posted in that pancocojams discussion thread on May 26 and May 27, 2026 by Thrin.

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2000-2015

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after 2015

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Visitor comments are welcome.

The History of "On The Mountain Stands A Lady" Children's Singing Game And Recreational Rhyme (Excerpt From bluegrassmessengers.com)

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest Revision- May 9, 2026

This is the Part I of a four part pancocojams series about the children's singing game and skipping (jump rope) rhyme entitled "On The Mountain stands A Lady" (or similar titles).

This post presents an excerpt about this singing game and rhyme from two bluegrassmessanger.com website. The second website indicates that the earliest documented example of "On The Mountain stands A Lady" is from 1846 with other elements from the 18th century. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/05/on-mountain-stands-lady-part-ii.html for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post presents a 2025 Facebook post about a 2012 Isle of Man sound file by Violet Corlett of "On The Mountain Stands A Lady". Some comments from that post's discussion thread are also included in that pancocojams post. Those comments include memories of that skipping rhyme mostly from the 1940s - 1970s with one commenter sharing her memory of singing this rhyme while skipping rope in the 1980s. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/05/on-mountain-stands-lady-jump-rope-rhyme.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. Part A of that post showcases a YouTube video example and some text (word only) examples of "On A Mountain Stands A Lady" recreational rhymes from various online sources. 

Part B of that post showcases a YouTube video example of "There Stands A Lady On A Mountain" circle game and the lyrics for that example. 

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/05/examples-of-on-mountain-stands-lady.html for Part IV of this pancocojams series. That post presents additional online examples and comments about the children's singing game and skipping rope (jump rope) rhyme entitled "On The Mountain Stands A Lady" (or similar titles).from a discussion thread on Mudcat folk music forum. 

 
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, historical, socio-cultural, and recreational purposes.

All copyights remain with their owners.

Thanks to bluegrassmessanger.com for their research and writing about this singing game and rhyme.

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PANCOCOJAMS EDITOR'S NOTE
This post departs from this pancocojams blog's mission of showcasing the music, dances, language practices, & customs of African Americans and of other people of Black descent throughout the world.

While some singing games and recreational rhymes that are showcased on pancocojams have been documented to come from Black Americans or from other Black people, most if not all of the examples of "On A Mountain Stands A Lady" probably weren't composed by Black people and may have rarely been chanted by Black people, at least in the United States.

These examples of and information about "On A Mountain Stands A Lady" are showcased on pancocojams because I like these genres of folk culture. Also, I like learning about the history of songs and rhymes and discovering how some elements of old songs and rhymes are retained in "new" songs and rhymes.

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EXCERPT ABOUT "ON A MOUNTAIN STANDS A LADY"
From http://bluegrassmessengers.com/british-versions-8c-on-a-mountain-stands-a-lady.aspx British & other versions: 8C. On a Mountain Stands a Lady

[Pancocojams Editor's Note: This page includes a sketch of girls holding hands moving around a circle counterclockwise with a girl in the center kneeling on the ground with her hands covering her face.]

"British and Other Versions: 8C. On a Mountain Stands a Lady Roud 2603; "There Stands a Lady" (Sharp); "There Stands a Lady on the Mountain;" "Yonder Stands a Lovely Lady;" "There She Stands a Lovely Creature;" "Lady on the Mountain"(Opie); "Lady on Yonder Hill;"

[The fundamental stanza of children's game songs used in 8C. On a Mountain Stands a Lady (Roud 2603) is derived from the text of two stanzas of 8. Madam, I Have Come To Court You. This opening stanza appears in a variety of ways but usually:

    There stands a lady on the mountain,

    Who she is I do not know:

    Oh! she wants such gold and silver!

    Oh! she wants such a nice young man! [Gomme A, 1894]

 The modern versions[1] often reverse first line of the text:

      On a mountain stands a lady,

     Who she is I do not know;

     All she wants is gold and silver,

     All she wants is a nice young man[2]. [South London 1974]

The image of a lady on a "mountain" or "hillside" makes the stanza easily identified. The source of "mountain" is unknown and only one reference is given to it in the related "Madam" songs (see: The Dumb Lady-- 1672). It's derived from the first two lines of the opening stanza of "Madam[3]":

Yonder sits[stands] a lovely creature,

Who is she? I do not know,

I'll go court her for her features,

Whether her answer be "Ay" or "no."

The two lines are combined with a two-line variation of the last "gold and silver" stanza of "Madam" (the woman's response)[4]:

What care I for gold and silver,

What care I for house and land

What care I for rings and jewels,

If I had but a handsome man."

In this stanza the 1st and 4th lines make up the last two lines of the opening of the children's game song while a "handsome man" becomes a "nice young man" and the young lady once who eschewed "gold and silver" for a "handsome man" now wants "gold and silver." When these changes took place is unknown but since versions were collected in the 1880s the change likely took place by the mid-1800s.

The standard text of Madam was sung by children in 1846 as a nursery rhyme, my A. It was collected by Halliwell and does not have the standard game-song form found in C-G. The text of 8C's  A and B are remnants of Madam with B versions having ring-game instructions. The logical conclusion would be that the nursery rhymes and ring games of A and B, predate C-G which were adapted from them. This evolution has not been verified and only two hybrid first stanzas[5] have been found (one from Australia) which have the "On the Mountain" opening with the "Madam" closing line "whether she answers Yes or No."

C is represented by children's game songs with the standard "Here stands a lady on the mountain" opening. One early version of C was collected in Berrington by Charlotte Burne and published in Shropshire Folk-Lore II ( p. 509) in 1885. Burne calls it "another version of Sally Water(Walters)" since the other parts are similar to or taken from Sally Water. She also says, "See the ballad of the Disdainful Lady," a version of Madam published in the same edition. In the notes for "Disdainful Lady" she says, "the first stanza slightly resembles a game-rhyme given ante (p. 509), and one in Folio Lore Journal, Vol. I. p. 387." Here's Burne's version:

Chorus. 'Here stands a lady on a mountain,

Who she is I do not know;

AU as she wants is gold and silver,

All as she wants is a nice young man.

Choose you east, and choose you west.

Choose you the one as you love best.

(She chooses, and chorus continues,)

Now Sally's got married we wish her good joy,

First a girl and then a boy;

Twelve months a'ter a son and da'ter,

Pray young couple, kiss together.

The text of stanzas of C not found in versions of "Madam" are taken from other children's songs current at the time of collection. Burne mentions "Sally Water." Some other children's songs/games with a lines similar to "Choose you east" and the "kissing stanza" are "King William," "Here Stands a Young Man," "Tug of War" and the aforementioned "Sally Water." Cf. the version in Gillington's "Old Hampshire Singing Games."

Two versions of D, children's songs where children reenact roles similar to those of the early wooing plays,  were published by Gomme in 1894. Titled "Lady on Yonder Hill" they feature the character of the wooed lady who feigns death and is resurrected.  In the folk plays Alan Brody points out that the "combat leads to the death and resurrection of one of the figures, after which the wooing resumes." The death of one of the wooers is found in both "Lady on Yonder Hill" and some of the "Quack Doctor" folk plays. The first version, Da, was taken by Gomme from an article, Children's Games, collected from Suffolk children by Miss Nina Layard of Ipswich and published in Suffolk Folk-lore, Issue 37, Part 2 as edited by Lady Eveline Camilla Gurdon, 1893.  Gurdon gives the game instructions along with the sung text:

[…]

The inclusion of elements of the wooing plays suggests the possibility that the "There stands a Lady" stanza evolved from a wooing play in the early to mid-1800s. However, no wooing play has been collected which gives the "There stands a Lady" opening. The two "gold and silver" stanzas found similarly in Madam were collected in wooing plays of the 1900s but were surely present in the 1800s[6]. The argument that text of the children's songs resembles text of the wooing plays is tenuous at best.

In 1906 Cecil J. Sharp collected a version of E from John Barnett of Bridgwater, Somerset. This ring game variant (designated Ea) combines "Lady on a mountain" with a chorus, "Madam will you walk" associated with another courting song, "Keys of Heaven (Keys of Canterbury)[7]":

Madam will you walk

Madam will you talk

Madam will you walk and talk with me.

In 1909 Gillington published a version of E, "There Stands a Lady" (Keys of Heaven)," in her "Old Surrey Singing Games and Skipping Rope Rhymes." The most popular version of "There Stands a Lady (Keys of Heaven)"  was collected from girls at Littleport Town Girls' School by Cecil Sharp on 8 September, 1911 at Littleport, Cambridgeshire. Sharp's elaborate version was widely reprinted and seems to be the source for a number of reprints including "There Stands a Lady." published by Norman Douglas in "London Street Games" (1st edition, 1916) pp. 85-87 and the popular "There Stands a Lady" from the TV sitcom series "Liver Birds" set in Liverpool that aired from 1969 to 1979.  Here is the text of the 1912 version (slightly expanded from the MS) which was published by Sharp and Gomme for Novello and Company:

"There Stands a Lady" Circle Game

All the players join hands in a ring except one, A, who stands in the centre. They then sing and act as follows:—

The players dance round in the ring and sing these  lines. A says “No” very decidedly. The players then stand still and sing the last two lines. A again says " No.”

1 There I stands a lady on the mountain,

Who she is I do not know;

All she wants is gold and silver.

All she wants is a nice young man.

 

Madam will you walk? Madam will you talk?

Madam will you marry  me? No!

Not if I buy you a nice arm chair

To sit in your garden when you take the air? No!

 

2 There I stands a lady on the mountain.

 Who she is I do not know;

All she wants is  gold and silver,

All she wants is a nice young man.

 

Madam will you walk?  Madam will you talk?

Madam will you marry me? No

Not if I buy you a silver spoon

To I feed your baby every afternoon? No

3 There stands a lady on the mountain,

Who she is I do not know;

All she wants is gold and silver.

All she wants is a nice young man.

[As in first stanza, except that on the second interrogation A says “Yes.” A then chooses a partner  from the ring, B.]

Madam will you walk? Madam will you talk?

Madam will you marry me! No!

Not if I buy you a nice straw hat,

With three yards of ribbon a-hanging down your back? Yes

[A and B, arm in arm, walk out from the ring under the raised arms of two of the players. B puts a ring on A’s finger,]

4 Go to church, love,

Go to church, love, farewell.

 

5 Put the ring on,

Put the ring on, farewell.

 

6 Say your prayers, love, [A and B kneel down]

Say your prayers, love, farewell.

 

7 Back from church, love, [A and B, arm in arm, walk back into the centre of the ring,]

Back from church, love, fare-well.

 

8 What’s for breakfast, love, [Sung by A and B.]

What’s for breakfast, love, fare-well'?

 

9 Bread and butter and watercress, [Sung by the ring]

Bread and butter and watercress,

Bread and butter and watercress,

And you shall have some.

[Verses continues to #13.]

After a cover version was featured on the TV sitcom series "Liver Birds" in the early 1970s, the song was revived. In a rootsweb London archive post Joanna Coventry said:

At the beginning of the 1970s only a few lines of this game-song seem to have been remembered; but in 1975-6 versions such as the above were collected in quick succession from 9 year olds in Salford, from an 8 year old at Wool in Dorset and from 10 year olds in Oxford…. The words are virtually those of the game, "There stands a lady," published by Cecil Sharp in 1912 and most of the children had learnt the song from a young man with a guitar on the TV schools programme  “Music Time” . . This extended version belongs to the period 1920-25; but the first four lines have been continuously popular in the skipping rope, as well as forming the basis of a simple ring game first noted in 1913.

* * * *

By the mid-1900s the short ring game songs had become popular skipping songs also called, "jump-rope songs," with a new variation of the first line (also is the title)-- "On the Mountain Stands a Lady." These songs, my F, were popular throughout the UK and in the US and Canada as well. The standard rope jumping version begins:

On the mountain stands a lady,

Who she is I do not know,

All she wants is gold and silver,

All she wants is a nice young man. [Lucy Stewart Aberdeenshire, 1960] [8]

 

After this a new child is asked to come in (called by name) to jump rope and one of the participating jumpers is asked to leave (called to leave).

Come in my dear [name],

Go out my dear [name].

The invitation ("come in" or "calling in") of another player who replaces the old player in the center of the ring or rope is the most common version known in the last fifty years and many children from the 1950s up to today have learned this basic version. That these later game songs were widely popular in the UK was corroborated by a tabulation by the Opies[9] in 1997 who noted the "On the Mountain" game song "from sixty-five places since 1950."

Additional stanzas have been added to the skipping texts of F. My G has extra stanzas similar to the additional stanzas of C found in other children's game (Sally Water/Walker) of the late 1800s. In this version[10] from South London in 1974 these additional lines are added:

So go to your__, dear,

And make it Mrs___

How many kisses did he give you?

One, two, three. . .

Will you marry him?

Yes, no, yes. . .

How many babies will you have?

One, two, three. . .

Do you love him?

Yes, no, yes. . .

The way the additional lines of the game were enacted were described by schoolgirls from Huish Episcopi, Somerset in a recording[11]: A girl is skipping in the middle while the girls sing "Will you marry him?" When they sing "Yes, no yes, no. . ." the rope stops swinging and if they were singing "yes" when it stopped-- that is the answer for the girl in the middle-- "Yes" she will marry him. The other questions are answered similarly.

* * * *

Ian Turner collected a number of versions in Australia (see: Cinderella Dressed in Yella, New York, 1972). Here's one reprinted in The Bulletin of Sydney (December, 1998) that has the second verse in the third person:

Here stands a lovely creature,

Who she is I do not know.

Will she answer for her beauty,

Will she answer Yes or No.

No, she won't have gold and silver

No, she won't have house or land

No, she won't have ships on the ocean.

All she wants is a nice young man.

 

This version and another collected in 1952 in England by the Opies have the familiar "Madam" first stanza which is the older form of the children's song.

* * * *

The appearance of these children's songs based on text of "Madam" can only be traced to the 1870s with the "There stands a Lady on the Mountain" stanza dating to the early 1880s. Whether the new "There stands a Lady on the Mountain" stanza is derived from the wooing folk plays is unknown, but at least two versions suggest the possibility[12]. The children's songs can't be traced to the mid-1700s broadsides of "Madam" and have an assumed origination date no earlier than the mid-1800s. The earliest appearance of the more modern "On a Mountain Stands a Lady" first line is 1914 where it appears without attribution in John Hornby's "The Joyous Book of Singing Games," published in New York.  The "On a Mountain Stands a Lady" versions associated with skipping rope are products of the early 1900s which became popular by the mid-1900s.

In this cursory study no attempt has been made to secure every available version and a number of known versions, available in books which I do not have access, are not given.

Footnotes:

1. Although hardly "modern" in the strict sense, these versions appeared in Britain in after World War II. The first published version was Horby's in 1914 by a NY publisher.

2. This is the standard modern stanza found in the 1950s and on skipping games. One variation is "On the hillside."

3. This is from earliest extant version of "Madam," titled "The Lovely Creature" ("Yonder sits a Lovely Creature") which was printed at Aldermary Churchyard by one of the Dicey/Marshall dynasty and is dated about 1760.

4. The early print versions (c. 1760s) have "gold and treasure" but many subsequent versions have "gold and silver." The plough plays also have "gold and silver."

5. See Opie 1952 and Turner 1976.

6. See, for example, the version from Kentucky dated 1930 but recreated from informants who learned it in the late 1800s.

7. Although some admixture is found in "Madam" and Keys," there are clearly different ballads and should not be lumped.

8. This is standard with slight variation throughout the UK, Canada, US and Australia.

9. See:  "Children's games with things: marbles, fivestones, throwing and Catching, Gambling, Hopscotch, Chucking and Pitching, Ball-Bouncing, Skipping, Tops and Tipcat" by Iona Archibald Opie, ‎Peter Opie - 1997.

10. See: The Lore of the Playground: One hundred years of children's games, by Steve Roud - 2010.

11. From:  Opie collection of children's games & songs C898-76-02. The children perform the singing game 'On a Hillside Stands a Lady' (a variation of 'On a Mountain Stands a Lady') [00:00:58 - 00:01:59] http://sounds.bl.uk/Oral-history/Opie-collection-of-children-s-games-and-songs-/021M-C0898X0077XX-0100V0”…

12. Two hybrid versions are the 1952 "folk" version collected by the Opies and a version collected by Ian Turner from The Bulletin of Sydney (12.3.98)."...
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note 
This page includes a lengthy list of individual versions that can be accessed on that website.

The earliest example listed is http://bluegrassmessengers.com/1madam-i-am-come-to-court-you--lon-halliwell-1846.aspx 
"Earliest source: Madam, I Am Come to Court You- (Lon) Halliwell 1846

Madam I Am Come to Court You- (Lon) Halliwell 1846

[From Halliwell's 1846 book, "The Nursery Rhymes of England, obtained principally from oral tradition.]"
-R. Matteson 2017

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This concludes Part I of this pancocojams series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visitor comments are welcome.

Reddit.com Comments About How Children's Recreational Rhymes, Chants, Parodies, Singing Games Etc. Were Spread In The USA And Elsewhere BEFORE The Internet

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part II of a two part pancocojams series about the spread of children's recreational rhymes, chants, songs including parodies, and singing games throughout the world before the internet became available to the general public (before 1993-1994 and particularly before YouTube was first launched in 2005)

This post presents selected comments from four reddit.com discussion threads about how children's recreational rhymes and singing games etc. were spread in one nation and elsewhere in the world before the internet was available to the general public.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/04/how-childrens-recreational-rhymes.html for Part I of this pancocojams series. That post presents my list of how children's recreational rhymes, chants, songs including parodies,  singing games etc. have been spread worldwide before the internet was available to the general public and particularly before YouTube was first launched. I believe that after those dates the internet and particularly YouTube have been important ways that children's recreational rhymes and singing games etc. have been and continue to be spread throughout the world.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners. 

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM ONLINE DISCUSSION THREADS
These entries are given in relative chronological particular order and are numbered for referencing purposes only.

[All of the pertinent comments from these very short reddit.com discussion threads on this subject are quoted below.] 

Source #1:
From https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/4oa12c/eli5_how_do_elementary_school_kids_all_over_the/

1. Palacesofparagraphs, 2015
"How do elementary school kids all over the country know the same playground songs/rhymes/etc?"...

**

2. expired_methylamine, 2015
"Media is a good answer, but also, let's not forget family reunions and summer camps. Many families have sometimes even annual events where they invite everyone over to read connect, and the kids can talk about all the jokes and stuff they know. Also, lots of wealthy families send their kids to overnight camps several states away. The kids surely have the time to share their rhymes and things there."

**
3.Coastreddit, 2015
"People move, it may come as a surprise but trump is right. People move all over and they talk to each other and adopt each others practices when they like them.

You moved, is it that hard to think that other people have done it to?"

****
Source #2
from https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/cfwp9z/without_the_internet_and_tv_how_did_children_all/

1. Iamjustjenna, 2018
"Without the Internet and TV, how did children all over the world learn the same taunts, songs and nursery rhymes?

There are hundreds of examples of this but here are just a few

-Ring around The Rosies

-Missed me, missed me now you gotta kiss me

-I know you are but what am I

-Cootie Shots

-jump rope songs like "Cinderella Dressed in Yella..."

My husband was born in Iran and spent most of his childhood in New Zealand and Australia. I was born and raised in the US. He and I both heard the same schoolyard chants and taunts and I know most Americans knew them too. I asked my parents and grandparents and they also had heard almost all of the same ones too.(or some variation thereof.)

So what I don't understand is how all of these rhymes and songs and such were spread around the world in a time before the Internet or even television. Even with the limited travel people did back then, how could these songs have gotten so popular all over the world?"
-snip-
This is how this comment was written in that discussion thread.

**

2. rewboss, 2018
"The first point is that they didn't learn them perfectly. You mention "Ring Around the Rosies"; the version sung by most British children is "Ring a Ring o' Roses", and where most American versions have the line "Ashes! Ashes!" the British version has "A-tishoo! A-tishoo!" In India, the first line is usually "Ringa ringa roses" and the third "Husha busha!"

How these songs and rhymes spread was by word of mouth. Unfortunately, for that reason we have no details: there are no written records until about the 19th century, when people thought to write them down and publish them in books. By that time, many of these songs were already centuries old.

People moved about quite a bit more than we usually assume. Most people didn't move far from where they were born, but enough did that these traditions spread.

There are some clues as to the kind of ways this could happen. In the 1940s, a British visitor to the Danish island of Anholt heard the local children singing a song; to the children, the lyrics were just nonsense words: "Jeck og Jill vent op de hill, og Jill kom tombling after." It's quite clear to any English speaker that this is a corruption of part of Jack and Jill: historians know that during the Napoleonic Wars British troops were stationed there, so presumably they taught the local children the song, and even though they didn't understand it, they sang it as best they could and passed it down to their children.

Travel wasn't limited so much that the English language wasn't able to spread, even in the 17th or 18th century.

Picking another example from your list, cooties is a very American thing. The word "cootie" was used by British soldiers during WW1 to refer to the lice that infested them in the trenches, and it was an American games manufacturer than heard of this and produced a game called "The Cootie Game" in 1915, which led in 1949 to the much more successful "The Game of Cootie" (almost identical in concept to a British party game called "Beetle" or "Beetle Drive"). Cooties isn't as old as you seem to think it is, and neither is it very widespread.

The nearest British equivalent to "cooties" is "the dreaded lurgi" (or simply "lurgi"), a fictional disease invented by a popular 1950s radio comedy show called The Goon Show."

**
3. Iamjustjenna (OP; "original poster"), 2018
"Not sure why this was downvoted, it gave a lot of good information. Thank you.

I'd have to disagree with you about cooties not being widespread. Australia is about as far from America as you can get and the whole "cootie shot" thing was around there when my husband was growing up. His parents had heard it in Bangladesh as well.

The first point is that they didn't learn them perfectly

Right that's why I said "or some variation thereof". :)

**
4. rewboss, 2018
" "Widespread" in the sense of "known to a very large number of people", not necessarily "known to people on different continents". It's thought that "cooties" ultimately comes from the Austronesian languages, which includes Maori (the word is "kutu" and means "bug"). But the cootie shot -- if by that you mean "Circle, circle, dot, dot, now you've got the cootie shot" -- is, as far as I can tell, a relatively recent North American invention, and if your husband and his childhood friends picked it up, then probably ultimately from radio and/or TV.

It's likely that cooties are known of in the South Pacific and perhaps anywhere British soldiers went during or before WW1. Whether they are as widespread in those areas as they are in the US I can't say for sure. Of course, your husband's story is complicated by the fact that his family moved around quite a bit, and what they were doing will affect who they actually interacted with -- did your husband, for example, attend international schools in those places?"

****
Source #3
From https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/6rfngr/eli5_how_did_folkcultural_songs_and_nursery/ 

[Question] "How did folk/cultural songs and nursery rhymes spread before records or the Internet?"

[This is the only response]
. Rhomboidus, 2016
"Prior to printing they were spread by word of mouth along with other folk traditions. The invention of the printing press however allowed music and lyrics to be distributed widely to the general public. Music, storytelling, and poetry were very popular ways to pass the time back in the day. Newspapers, magazines, and even catalogs often came with music the readers could play themselves on a fiddle, banjo, or piano. Simple tunes people could play and sing at home were very popular as marketing gimmicks."

****
Source #4
From https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/jxeo6i/how_did_those_naughty_nursery_rhymes_type_things/

1. GravelGuy666, 2020
"How did those “naughty nursery rhymes” type things spread across the playgrounds in the US pre internet?

Sorry, I don’t know what they’re called exactly, but like

“Miss Susie had a steamboat, the steamboat had a bell. Miss Susie went to heaven the steamboat went to Hello operator give me number 9 If you disconnect me, I’ll kick you from Behind the fridgorator”

And so on and so on.

“There’s a place in France where the naked ladies dance and a whole in the wall where the men can see it all”

There’s tons of those “bad” rhymes we used to say in elementary school and everyone I met across the country has heard them at their school too. How did these all get around to little kids before the internet was a thing?"

**
2. bullevard, 2020
"Childhood folklore is actually kind of fascinating. Stuff would spread from older sublings to younger siblings. People moved from town to town. Sometimes tv shows would spread stuff too.

You may be interested in this youtube video that tracks Jingle Bells Batman Smells across the english soeaking world.

https://youtu.be/V5u9JSnAAU4

**
3. GravelGuy666 (OP), 2020
"Thank you for that! Pretty interesting stuff"

**
4. [deleted], 2020
"The Joker sang "Jingle Bells Batman smells, Robin legged an egg" on the Christmas with the Joker episode of Batman: The Animated Series; and, according to IMDB, that episode aired on 13 Nov 1992. The Simpsons episode referenced in his video aired in 1993.

The Joker did it first."

**
5. journoprof, 2020
"Travel was a thing, and family connections. A kid in Chicago hears a rhyme and shares it when he visits his cousin in Michigan, etc., etc. Regional variations would creep in, but the essence would remain.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord, he was tearing down the alley in a green-and-yellow Ford. One hand was on the throttle and the other on a bottle of Pabst Blue Ribbon beer."

**
6. Haort, 2020
"I mean, people still had friends or relatives at other schools back then. Life pre-internet wasn't a microcosm."

**
7. BackUpAgain•, 2020
"From older kids? Is that not where you learned them? I went to daycare after school with kids who were all different ages. Recess was at the same time for all the grades. Lots of kids have siblings."

**
8. GravityTruther, 2020
"Andrew Dice Clay probably had a decent hand in the spreading of “Naughty Nursery Rhymes” in the pre-internet days. He’s probably one of my favorite comedians, definitely would recommend you check him out if you haven’t heard of him.

https://youtu.be/aTKZRire8Wg "

**
9. AutisticTroll, 2020
"I often hear a lot of those in old tv sitcoms and think “ah, that’s where ray learned that.” My 3rd grade friend."

**
10. kidfantastic, 2020
"Big brothers. That's how I learned them."

**
11. GravelGuy666 (OP), 2020
"Lol same. But where did our big brothers learn them? It just blows my mind that these rhymes started with one child who made one up and spread across the country to every playground."

**
12. IReplyWithLebowski, 2020
"I’ve got an old book on American folklore that has songs and rhymes that blew my mind, cause I remember singing the same ones in Australia."

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This concludes Part II of this two part pancocojams series.

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Visiting comments are welcome.

How Children's Recreational Rhymes, Chants, Parodies, Singing Games Etc. Were Spread Worldwide BEFORE The Internet

Edited by Azizi Powell

This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series about the spread of children's recreational rhymes, chants, songs including parodies, and singing games throughout the world before the internet became available to the general public (before 1993-1994 and particularly before YouTube was first launched in 2005)

This post presents my list of how children's recreational rhymes, chants, songs including parodies,  singing games etc. have been spread worldwide before the internet was available to the general public and particularly before YouTube was first launched. I believe that after those dates the internet and particularly YouTube have been important ways that children's recreational rhymes and singing games etc. have been and continue to be spread throughout the world.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2026/04/redditcom-comments-about-how-childrens.html___ for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post presents selected comments from four reddit.com discussion threads about how children's recreational rhymes and singing games etc. were spread in one nation and elsewhere in the world before the internet was available to the general public.

The content of this post is presented for folkloric purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

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CHILDREN'S RECREATIONAL RHYMES INCLUDE
-jump rope rhymes, including single rope, Double Dutch jump rope etc.
-hand clap rhymes (partner hand clap rhymes, group hand clap rhymes) etc.
-ball bouncing rhymes
-and some rhymes that are chanted without any accompanying physical activity

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HOW CHILDREN'S RECREATIONAL RHYMES, CHANTS, PARODIES, SINGING GAMES ETC.
WERE SPREAD WORLDWIDE BEFORE THE INTERNET 

These entries also apply to the dissemination of English language (and other languages) children's nursery rhymes 
 
These entries aren't presented in any particular order.

Word of mouth

AI Overview definition: "Word of mouth is the passing of information, opinions, or recommendations from person to person through spoken, informal conversation rather than written or formal advertising")

-telephone conversations -learning a new rhyme, singing game etc. via telephone communication with a person who doesn't live in your neighborhood, city, state, or nation 

-formal and informal communication at schools/universities that include students/professors from more than one location in your nation and/or overseas 

-written communication with children, teen, and/or adult "pen pals" within your nation and/or outside of your nation 

summer camps and other formal and informal gatherings of children/teens  that includes people from multiple locations, including from other nations

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Mass Media

Wikipedia definition: "Mass media refers to the forms of media that reach large audiences via mass communication. It includes broadcast media, digital media, print media, social media, streaming media, advertising, and events."

-books, magazines, newspapers, scholarly journals/dissertations (These entries pertain to children's rhymes. singing games etc.) 

-vinyl records, videocassette recorders (VCRs), (compact disc (CDs), Digital Versatile Discs (DVDs). and their linear notes particularly for vinyl records; including children's records, folk records, and records from multiple genres that have song tracks that include actual or adapted children's rhymes. singing games etc. 

-radio, television, movies, theater productions, and commercials (These forms of mass media include actual or adapted children's rhymes, singing games etc.; including multiple genres of music concerts, and including stand up comedy.)  

-advertisement (ads) that include actual or adapted children's rhymes, singing games etc.

****
Travel, Visits, Relocation
-travel, visits, or relocation to another location where you hear or learn a rhyme, singing game etc. that is new to you or a different version of a rhyme, singing game etc. that you already knew

- travel, visits, or relocation to another location where you share a rhyme, singing game etc. that you know; this especially occurs in these occupations: teachers (including those that teach English as a second language) , missionaries, the peace corp. and other overseas volunteer positions, and soldiers.

-emigration and immigration - resulting in becoming familiar with children's recreational rhymes and singing games etc from people other that those you had known before

(AI Overview- "Immigration refers to entering and settling in a new country, while emigration is the act of leaving one's home country to live elsewhere. The primary difference is the perspective: emigration is moving out (E for Exit), and immigration is moving in (I for In). Both terms often describe the same movement from opposite sides."...

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This concludes Part I of this pancocojams series. 

Thanks for visiting pancocojams.

Additions and corrections to this list are very welcome.

What The Word "Knickerbocker" Means In The Children's Recreational Rhyme & Action Song "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine"

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest update- June 14, 2026

This is Part I of a three part pancocojams series on the English language recreational rhyme "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine" (and similar titles). 

This post presents information about the origin and meaning of the words "knickerbocker". "Knickerbocker  Number nine", and "Knicks" (the name of the National Basketball Team").

The Addendums to this post presents information about and examples of the phrase "number 9" in United States' culture and in British culture.

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/examples-of-dr-knickerbocker-number.html  for Part II of this pancocojams series. That post presents some (word only) examples of the rhyme "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine".  

Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/doctor-knickerbocker-number-9-videos.html for Part III of this pancocojams series. That post showcases some YouTube videos of the song/rhyme "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine".  

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The content of this post is presented for historical, cultural, and folkloric purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

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THE ORIGIN AND MEANING OF THE WORD "KNICKERBOCKER"
From https://www.nba.com/knicks/history/knickerbocker  NBA presented by Chase 

[This is a complete reprint from Chase Banks. No publishing date is given. I retrieved this post on Oct. 9, 2025.]

"The term "Knickerbockers" traces its origin to the Dutch settlers who came to the New World - and especially to what is now New York - in the 1600s. Specifically, it refers to the style of pants the settlers wore...pants that rolled up just below the knee, which became known as "Knickerbockers", or "knickers".

In 1809, legendary author Washington Irving solidified the knickerbocker name in New York lore when he wrote the satiric A History of New York from the Beginning of the World to the End of the Dutch Dynasty under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker. Later known as Knickerbocker's History of New York, Irving's book introduced the word "knickerbocker" to signify a New Yorker who could trace his or her ancestry to the original Dutch settlers.

With the publication of Irving's book, the Dutch settler "Knickerbocker" character became synonymous with New York City. The city's most popular symbol of the late 19th and early 20th centuries was "Father Knickerbocker", complete with cotton wig, three-cornered hat, buckled shoes, and, of course, knickered pants.

At the same time, the term "Knickerbocker" became indelibly linked to anything and everything New York...from Jacob Ruppert's Knickerbocker Beer to the 1938 Broadway musical Knickerbocker Holiday (which starred Walter Huston and featured the haunting "September Song") to famed society gossip columnists Cholly Knickerbocker (the nom de plume used by Maury Paul and Igor Cassini) and Suzy Knickerbocker (Aileen Mehle).

The Knickerbocker name had its first use in the sports world in 1845, when Alexander Cartwright's Manhattan-based baseball team - the first organized team in baseball history - was named the "New York Knickerbockers" or the "Knickerbocker Nine." The Knickerbocker name stayed with the team even after it moved its base of operations to Elysian Fields at Hoboken, NJ in 1846. (The baseball link may have prompted Casey Stengel to joyously exclaim, "It's great to be back as the manager of the Knickerbockers!" when he was named pilot of the newborn Mets in 1961).

Thus, the Knickerbocker name had been an integral part of the New York scene for more than a century when the Basketball Association of America granted a charter franchise to the city in the summer of 1946. As can best be determined, the final decision to call the team the "Knickerbockers" was made by the club's founder, the legendary Ned Irish.

The late Fred Podesta, the longtime Garden executive who passed away in 1999, once recalled, "The name came out of a hat. We were all sitting in the office one day - Irish, (publicity man) Lester Scott and a few others on the staff. We each put a name in the hat, and when we pulled them out, most of them said Knickerbockers, after Father Knickerbocker, the symbol of New York City. It soon was shortened to Knicks."

In keeping with another New York tradition, the team's colors have always (except for the years from 1979-80 through 1982-83) been orange, blue and white...the official colors of New York City.

So now you know."

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WHY WAS THE 'KNICKERBOCKER NINE" AN EARLY NICKNAME FOR NEW YORK'S KNICKERBOCKER BASKETBALL TEAM?
From https://hooptactics.net/premium/basketballbasics/bb8rulesevolution.php
"Originally, there was no set rule on the number of players. The idea was that the game could be played by any number of players. However, that did not work out. After experimenting with teams up to 50 players, early games were primarily played by nine players on each side - the reason being that 18 students showed up for Naismith's class. In 1897 five players became the mandatory team size."

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WHEN WAS THE SONG/RHYME "DOCTOR KNICKERBOCKER" (ALSO KNOWN AS 
DOCTOR KNICKERBOCKER NUMBER NINE" FIRST DOCUMENTED?
from AI Overview
"The exact historical origin and first documented print date of the "Dr. Knickerbocker Number Nine" folk rhyme remain unrecorded, as it originated as an unauthored, oral schoolyard clapping and jump-rope chant. However, its cultural pieces and modern commercial releases provide a clear timeline of how it developed:"...
-snip-
This write-up continues with history about the New York Knickerbockers basketball team and indicates that "The song ["Doctor Knickerbocker"] achieved massive global fame when it was covered by the Australian kids' group The Wiggles on their May 2008 album You Make Me Feel Like Dancing.
-snip-
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/10/doctor-knickerbocker-number-9-videos.html for Part III of the pancocojams series on "Dr. Knickerbocker" children's rhymes for a 1973 sound file of a version of that song that was sung by African American children from the Gullah culture of St. John's Island, South Carolina.

This may be the earliest documentation of that song/rhyme.

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ADDENDUM #1- SOME OTHER EXAMPLES OF THE PHRASE "NUMBER NINE" IN AMERICAN CULTURE

QUOTE #1 - "CLOUD NINE"
From https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2iy68n/eli5_where_did_the_saying_im_on_cloud_nine_come/ "Where Did The Saying "I'm On Cloud Nine Come From?" 
[deleted], 2014
"Whenever a phrase includes a number, like the whole nine yards, at sixes and sevens etc., then attempts to find its derivation usually focus on the number. 'On cloud nine' is no exception. A commonly heard explanation is that the expression originated as one of the classifications of cloud which were defined by the US Weather Bureau in the 1950s, in which 'Cloud Nine' denotes the fluffy cumulonimbus type that are considered so attractive. Another explanation is that the phrase derives from Buddhism and that Cloud Nine is one of the stages of the progress to enlightenment of a Bodhisattva (one destined to become a Buddha).

Neither of these explanations holds water. To begin with, both the cloud classifications and the Buddhist stages to enlightenment have ten levels. To single out the last but one stage of either is rather like attributing the source of the 'whole nine yards' to American Football, where it is ten yards rather than nine that is a significant measure. Also, the fact that nine is far from the only number that has been linked with clouds, argues against those origins. Early examples of 'cloud' expressions include clouds seven, eight, nine and even thirty-nine.

It seems that it is the clouds themselves, rather than the number of them, that were in the thoughts of those who coined this phrase. The imagery was originally of a 'cloud cuckoo land' or 'head in the clouds' dreaminess, induced by either intoxication or inspiration, rather than the 'idyllic happiness' that we now associate with the phrase. The early references all come from mid 20th century USA and the earliest that I've found is in Albin Pollock's directory of slang, The Underworld Speaks, 1935:

"Cloud eight, befuddled on account of drinking too much liquor."

'Cloud nine' comes a little later, for example, in The Oxnard Press-Courier, August 1946:

"I think he has thought of everything, unless the authorities pull something new on him out of cloud nine."

Around the same period we find clouds seven and thirty-nine, in The San Mateo Times, April 1952 and Ross’s Hustlers, 1956, respectively:

"Mantovani's skilled use of reeds and strings puts this disc way up on Cloud Seven."

"That stuff is way up on Cloud Thirty-nine."

The early favourite was 'cloud seven' and many of the oldest citations use that form, as in this piece from The Dictionary of American Slang, 1960, which was the first printed definition of the term

"Cloud seven - completely happy, perfectly satisfied; in a euphoric state."

This early preference for seven as the significant number may have been influenced by the existing phrase 'seventh heaven'.

Since the 1980s or so, 'cloud nine' has become predominant. That has probably been influenced by the use of 'cloud nine' in popular music - George Harrison adopted the term as the title of his 1987 album and, more notably, The Temptations' 'psychedelic soul' album of the same name, in 1969."

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QUOTE #2 - 'SOUL SISTER NUMBER 9" 
From AI Overview (as a result of my October 13, 2025 Google Search question "What does Soul Sister #9 mean?")  
"Soul sister number nine" means a "superlative soul sister" in playground rhymes, suggesting the person is the best of the best. The phrase combines "soul sister," a term for a close female friend, with "number nine," a spiritually powerful number that represents enlightenment, universal love, and completion. The implication is that she is an exceptional soul sister with the highest qualities.

Soul sister: Originally used to describe a Black woman, the term has evolved to mean a close female friend who deeply understands you and shares a deep connection, similar to a soulmate but without a romantic connection.

Number nine: This is considered a spiritually significant number across many cultures and religions, symbolizing completion, spiritual enlightenment, universal love, and inner strength.

"Number nine" in rhymes: In the context of playground rhymes, "number nine" is used to show a superlative or exceptional quality. It's a way of saying that the person is the ultimate or the best."
-snip-
Click https://cocojams2.blogspot.com/2014/11/soul-sister-number-9-in-childrens.html for the 2014 post " "Soul Sister Number 9" In Children's Playground Rhymes". Here's one example of the words "Soul sister number 9" in children's playground rhymes:

"I'll be. be
Walking down the street,
Ten times a week.
Un-gawa. Un-gawa {baby}
This is my power.
What is the story?
What is the strike?
I said it, I meant it.
I really represent it.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me down.
Take a cool cool Black to knock me out.
I'm sweet, I'm kind.
I'm soul sister number nine.
Don't like my apples,
Don't shake my tree.
I'm a Castle Square Black
Don't mess with me."
- John Langstaff, Carol Langstaff Shimmy Shimmy Coke-Ca-Pop!, A Collection of City Children's Street Games & Rhymes {Garden City, New York, Double Day & Co; p. 57; 1973} 

-snip-
Another widely known children's recreational rhyme that includes the phrase "number nine" is "Engine Engine Number Nine". However, in that rhyme, it appears that the words "number nine" are the train or trolley's name and don't refer to how exceptional that train or trolley is. 

Here's an excerpt from a page that features several examples of the rhyme "Engine, Engine Number Nine" 
https://www.firstcry.com/intelli/articles/engine-engine-number-9-nursery-rhyme/  "Engine Engine Number 9 Nursery Rhyme For Kids" by Angela Naik, November 19, 2022
"Here’s the most popular version of the Engine Engine Number Nine poem used by kids to pick an ‘It’:

 Engine, engine number nine,

Going down Chicago line,

If the train goes off the track,

Do you want your money back?

Yes, no, maybe so!

 

Y-E-S Spells Yes And You Are It!

 

Or

 

N-O Spells No And You Are It!"   

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ADDENDUM #2-  THE USES OF THE PHRASE "DOCTOR'S ORDERS NUMBER NINE" IN BRITISH CULTURE

From https://www.reddit.com/r/wiggles/comments/1bn1fhb/dr_knickerbocker_9/

r/wiggles

Proof-Creme-1133, 2024

Dr. Knickerbocker #9

Music

What is the meaning of this song and the significance of the number 9 can someone explain?""

**

Past_Cut_7986, 2025
"In the uk we say “doctor’s orders, number 9” during the game of bingo. A doctor asks you to say “nine” while they check your tonsils as it moves your throat just right. Maybe Dr Knickerbocker is asking to look in peoples throats 😂"
-snip-
The first commenter in that discussion shared information about the first basketball team in history- New York City's Knickerbocker Nine".

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This concludes Part I of this pancocojams series.

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