Edited by Azizi Powell
This pancocojams post showcases selected comments from a 2012 online discussion thread entitled "Why Do Young White Londoners Talk Black Style?".
The content of this post is presented for folkloric, linguistics, and socio-cultural purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are participated in this discussion and all those who are quoted in this post. YouTube.
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This is part of an ongoing pancocojams series on "African American Vernacular English", "code switching" and other related linguistics customs.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2017/07/selected-youtube-discussion-thread.html for a closely related pancocojams post entitled "Selected YouTube Discussion Sub-Thread About Whether Black People From Britain "Talk White".
Also, click the tags below to find other posts in this series.
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DISCUSSION EXCERPT
Pancocojams Editor's Note:
The full discussion is seven pages (169 comments).
I recognize that other people compiling excerpts of these comments might choose to highlight some other comments than the ones that I chose.
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style
radyag
28/05/12 #1
"I've noticed in recent years that the classic cockney accent has now gone. Young people now speak in what I call black style, or gangsta. I can only assume this is the effect of mass immigration in London."
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ladymoanalot
28/05/12 11:45
#2
"When I was in London working I hardly heard anyone talk like that. Well apart from a gang of rough looking ones, in their early teens.."
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flagpole
28/05/12 11:51
#6
radyag wrote:
I've noticed in recent years that the classic cockney accent has now gone. Young people now speak in what I call black style, or gangsta. I can only assume this is the effect of mass immigration in London.
"if you stop calling it black style and refer to it as something like urban youth culture then the question of why the urban youth do it becomes more apparent."
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Talullahmay
28/05/12 11:52
#8
radyag wrote:
I've noticed in recent years that the classic cockney accent has now gone. Young people now speak in what I call black style, or gangsta. I can only assume this is the effect of mass immigration in London.
"I don't think it's just london though tbh, I live in manchester & it's the same with some white guys & girls here!"
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alisonrose3764
28/05/12 12:15
#20
"Cos they think its SO cool - shame they don't know they look totally stupid!
Its the jeans halfway down their bum that makes me laugh - what a pathetic look!
I'm so glad I am a grown-up!"
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stoatie
28/05/12 12:25
#25
"I think I must have missed the meeting where all the rules changed and adults were supposed to be able to understand why teenagers do stuff."
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https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style/p2
skp20040
28/05/12 13:08
#31
"Its a faux Jamaican patois, and it sounds ridiculous in white people ( I actually have a white Jamaican friend and it still sounds odd ) , especially young ladies ( and I use the word ladies in the loosest possible of terms ) .
But we can all speak in a Jamaican accent if we want, try saying Beer Can and you will find it sounds like Bacon in a Jamaican accent."
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Pancocojams Editor: The bold font was included in this comment
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pickwick
28/05/12 13:10
#32
flagpole wrote:
if you stop calling it black style and refer to it as something like urban youth culture then the question of why the urban youth do it becomes more apparent.
Heh, yes, this :D
"Anyone who actually thinks accent is tied to race is hilariously ignorant about language. (Not that being ignorant is hilarious in itself, just when they're trying to look down on other people from their lofty perches of ignorance.)"
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whydoiwatch
28/05/12 13:10
#33
stoatie wrote:
I think I must have missed the meeting where all the rules changed and adults were supposed to be able to understand why teenagers do stuff.
"Same here. You think I would've been issued a manual since I have kids. I guess I'm still waiting on "The Black Person's Guide to Being Black: How You Are All The Same Regardless of Ethnicity, Nationality, Class, Culture or Religion." I've been doing this black thing for almost 35 years but according to DS,I'm doing it wrong."
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Ber
28/05/12 13:27
#38
"All the white kids round here sound just like they were born and raised in Lagos :rolleyes:
(Saying that, I do love the Nigerian / Ghanaian accent)"
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Bex7t6
28/05/12 13:32
#41
"I heard this accent being discussed on the radio recently. Seems more of an influence of environment rather than white kids trying to talk 'black', whatever the f**k that is. I know a fair few black people who don't talk in the way being descibed.
From Wikepedia- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English
Although the street name, "Jafaican", implies that it is "fake" Jamaican, researchers indicate that it is not the language of white kids trying to "play cool" but rather that "[it is] more likely that young people have been growing up in London exposed to a mixture of second-language English and local London English and that this new variety has emerged from that mix"."
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor: That word was written with asterisks in that discussion thread.
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lala
28/05/12 13:53
#49
radyag wrote:
I've noticed in recent years that the classic cockney accent has now gone. Young people now speak in what I call black style, or gangsta. I can only assume this is the effect of mass immigration in London.
" "black style"? Surely you mean AMERICAN street talk?
But hey, let's not blame the other cultures in the west for this now. :rolleyes:"
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https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style/p3
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skp20040
28/05/12 14:00
#53
pickwick wrote
Yeah, but you only "know" (or assume) that London kids' Jamaican-style accent is put on because of their race, I guess is what I mean, really. I know quite a few people who have "put on" a false accent, but because it was broad Glaswegians or Cornish people "putting on" an Estuary or Standard English accent, nobody thinks it sounds stupid or they're weird fakers. Largely because they're going from low-status accent to higher-status accent, I think. And conversely that's why people think the Jafaikan sounds "wrong" and "stupid" and "unnatural" - because people are choosing to use a lower status accent, and that's just weird ;)
"It's not that the white kids are choosing to use a Jamaican accent though anyone choosing to use an accent other than their own I find a bit sad , no accent to my mind is low-status , an accent is an accent , but its that they are specifically choosing a gangsta aspect of that which is made up and they do it to come across as hard ."
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Ber
28/05/12 14:13
#55
"Thing is, I know quite a few jamaican people and their accents don't sound anything like "street slang" - so I'm not sure why its called "Jafaican" (unless its just because you can insert the word fake into it)"
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SillyBoyBlue
28/05/12 15:34
#70
"It's funny that black kids aren't accused of 'talking white' when their accent is as far removed from their grandparents' native Jamaican accent as white kids' are from theirs.
"Innit" is a "white" cockney word. Both black and white kids have grown up in a multi-cultural environment where the various accents have blended. I agree though that certain words ("Feds" for example) have been picked up from exposure to American rap culture, but this 'Jafaican' thing was obviously invented by someone whose never heard an authentic Jamaican patois."
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https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style/p4
kimotag
28/05/12 16:46
#79
"I think a lot of 'urban' accents have simply evolved out of the 'melting pot' culture that young people in some areas grow up in. Therefore they aren't 'fake' at all for those people. What I do find fake though is the way a lot of young men add extra bass to their voice in order to appear more masculine.
As someone else said, some people do moderate their accents when talking to different people. A guy in my gym speaks to me in standard estuary English, but can switch to Jamaican patois in an instant if a friend of his. who shares this ancestry comes along.
Having been born in Hampshire, but moving to London 30 years ago, my accent has slowly changed to Estuary English, but still with an element of Hampshire in it. I will speak posher (Received Pronunciation) in interview situations, or when giving a presentation, and less-posh when I am talking to people who speak urban English."
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GreenJellyJam
28/05/12 17:12
#81
"How can you talk 'Black'? Skin colour has nothing to do with how you speak.
Language and accents change over time and of course immigration has something to do with it otherwise we would not be speaking this language we are using now, it has nothing to do with the colour of someones skin it's do with kids from different cultures, backgrounds, countries intergrating with each other so the way they speak they develop their own accents and slang. Sure some put it on but most develop naturally, so let's not mock."
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yvier
28/05/12 19:47
#88
:Not sure whether this really is 'black style' way of talking. I was born and raised in London in the Notting Hill area during the 60s and 70s. I went to school and had many friends who were from a West Indian background and was always amazed that when they were all together they spoke with a West Indian accent but when they were with their white friends they spoke a typical London 'cockney' type accent. What I hear now is not a West Indian accent nor an old fashioned 'London' accent but something quite different. I can't really understand a lot of what kids say now but I suppose that's probably how it should be! Even so, I do find it very unattractive to listen to and I'm sure it isn't doing them any favours if they want to get a job. Guess it will change and evolve into something else one day."
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Lain Andrews
28/05/12 20:14
#90
radyag wrote:
I've noticed in recent years that the classic cockney accent has now gone. Young people now speak in what I call black style, or gangsta. I can only assume this is the effect of mass immigration in London.
"I have been in a class when a white teacher asked me,"why are you talking black?; Why don't you just be yourself." Should he be fired?
I grew up with black people and I've always like the way they dress,food culture, it's kool. :)
It is called ebonics and it is a recognized linguistic language, such as asian pronunication (hard time with th "r" sound) or spanish pronunciation (ee comes off as i)."
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John Carter
29/05/12 07:56
#99
....”I don't think this is about just an "accent" , for some people it's a way of identifying, for others it may be a way of being "cool". For some it isn't anything conscious it's just the way they and their friends talk. For some teenagers its a way of differentiating themselves in groups and from adults which is nothing new
The majority of teenagers who talk like this will probably talk differently to their parents, and switch their language to match the setting.
The ones who can't switch can go into youth work or TV or radio presenting;)
I also don't think it is ebonics, Lain.
But to go back to the original post it's not "black" style it's a mix found in urban areas and many urban areas will have their version ( as other posters have said)"
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Pancocojams Editor: This is a portion of a longer comment.
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https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style/p5
It'saLondonthin
29/05/12 16:15
#107
"Being from London, and being young I can go on record saying that not everyone under the age of 30 speaks black style.
What is black style? Is the the colloquialisms or the way in which these words are pronounced. ANyways this is a joke thread right??"
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Mr.Humphries
29/05/12 17:35
#109
"Most African people in London don't talk with a 'black style'. Most speak with impeccable accents and the rest with their own background patois mixed with a high grasp of English. Education is very important to Africans."
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https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style/p6
AssistedAction
#138
flagpole wrote:
if you stop calling it black style and refer to it as something like urban youth culture then the question of why the urban youth do it becomes more apparent.
It's not urban youth culture. Youths have always lived in urban areas but they haven't spoken in anything other than their regional accents or regionally indistinct accents, not something that owes its pronunciation, inflexions and even some of its vocabulary to West Indian patois. Therefore, though "black style" may not be the best choice of words as it suggests that all black people everywhere speak this way, it isn't in any way an inaccurate description of the way many young people speak these days.
It sounds ridiculous on any young person, whatever their colour, brought up in this country and the saddest thing is that it's costing young people job opportunities. Particularly if they are applying for a role where they will be speaking to the public."
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skipjack79
31/05/12 10:24
#145
"It's funny that these London kids use phrases like "keep it real", or "I'm keeping it real", while talking in a hilarious fake accent using fake mannerisms and pretending they're gangsters, but I'm guessing the irony is lost on them. :D"
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ChristmasCake
31/05/12 11:19
#147
"As someone of Jamaican origin, I can say that this way of talking is as far away from Patois as you can get."
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https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/1667825/why-do-young-white-londoners-talk-black-style/p7
Throgmorton1
31/05/12 17:17
#152
"Every generation desperately tries to define itself by developing (or stealing) a new vocabulary and vocal rhythm.
Depending on your age - you all have some individual language that you embraced as both setting you apart from the older generation and allowing you to identify with your own peer group.
Mine was the hippy vocabulary - no more - nor less cringe-worthy than anything used today - and certainly nothing to be proud of. Surely one of the joys of getting older is the ability to laugh at yourself at exactly the point you took yourself the most seriously."
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Youtoo?
31/05/12 17:36
#154
"Where I live we have Asian kids, white kids and black kids all talking in "urban black" accent (no offense, I can't think of a better phrase) with a Yorkshire twang on top. It's very amusing. :D"
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Imperfect Angel
01/06/12 00:15
#160
"What exactly is a black style? so much ignorance in this thread :sleep:"
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Pancocojams Editor: My guess is that in this comment "sleep" means that the commenter believes that people who use the term “black style” to refer to ways that people talk aren’t socially conscious (i.e. They aren't "woke" (in the contemporary African American originated meaning of that word).
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Prince Monalulu
01/06/12 01:30
#163
ChristmasCake wrote:
As someone of Jamaican origin, I can say that this way of talking is as far away from Patois as you can get.
"You're wasting your time.
Everytime this comes up various FM's point out it's not a (working class) Jamaican patois, nor an attempt to copy it.
If they were attempting to copy it, they'd get closer to it.
They'll just keep banging on about Jafakan (sp)."
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Prince Monalulu
01/06/12 02:41
#166
Mr.Humphries wrote:
I would love to hear standard English come back into vogue. It would be nice to understand what people are saying. It is a pity that no one in power is prepared to do something about the sorry situation that we find ourselves in today. Illiteracy is ruining this country.
"Good luck removing all slang and accents.
What's standard english?
What are 'those in power' supposed to do about it?
Might be my ignorance here, but I thought literacy related to the written word."
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Mr.Humphries
01/06/12 13:39
#168
Prince Monalulu wrote:
Love to know where you've met all these Africans with impeccable accents.
Do you mean impeccable english accents?
What countries do you mean, Africa's a big place.
"I meant most Africans from most of the nations that make up the continent. They make an effort to speak standard English and it is most pleasing to hear it rather than provincial garble. It would be nice if the natives could do the same too."
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pugamo
01/06/12 13:47
#169
"Because they are young and young people are silly. They'll soon drop the pretend accents when they have to do grown up things like go for an interview with the bank manager to arrange a mortgage."
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