Edited by Azizi Powell
This is Part I of a two part pancocojams series about the inclusion of the word "fine" meaning "physically attractive" in some American and in some Black American girls' foot stomping cheers.
This post presents an excerpt of a 2024 reddit.com discussion thread that documents some examples of songs that include the word "fine" meaning "physically attractive".
The Addendum to this post also showcases one of the early examples of these songs- the 1962/1963 R&B song "He's So Fine" by The Chiffons.
Click https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2025/12/examples-of-word-fine-meaning.html for Part II of this pancocojams post. That post presents some examples of the word "fine" with this meaning in Black American girls' foot stomping cheers. In addition, this pancocojams post includes some information about foot stomping cheers as well as a YouTube video of stepping which is a movement art that is very similar to performing foot stomping cheers.
The content of this post is presented for historical, linguistic, socio-cultural, and entertainment purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks ro all those who are quoted in this post. Thanks to the composer of the song "he's So Fine" that is showcased in this post and thanks to The Chiffons for recording that hit song in 1963.
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SELECTED COMMENTS ABOUT SONGS THAT INCLUDE THE WORD "FINE" MEANING "PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE"
Numbers are added for referencing purposes only. These numbers don't correspond to the numbers that are given to these commrents in that online discussion thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/1delc4u/fine_as_in_sexy_or_attractive/
r/etymology
1.AtabeyMomona, 2024
" "Fine" as in "sexy" or
"attractive"?
Question
I'm stumped. The word "fine" is used in so many
different contexts that every internet search I try turns up the wrong
iteration.
Does anyone know when the word "fine" as in
"Damn (s)he's fine!" or "Wow, you're looking fine tonight."
first came into popular use?
My instincts tell me the 1980s or 90s, but I'm not really
sure."
**
2. JacobAldridge, 2024
"My thoughts immediately turn to the song “Hey Mickey”,
released in 1981 and including the catchy cheerleader chorus:
“Oh Mickey you’re so fine, You’re so fine you blow my mind, Hey Mickey.”
The song itself was a cover version of sorts, but the “so fine” was an addition - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_(Toni_Basil_song)"
3.
"And I should add, please don't see me suggesting "Hey Mickey" as evidence of the earliest usage - it was just something that came to mind while I was on mobile that at least pre-dates OP's thoughts about it being an 80s-to-90s coinage."
**
4. BubbhaJebus, 2024
"Also in 1981, there was a comedy movie called So Fine.
In my own memory, the popularity of using an emphatic
"fine" as slang to describe a beautiful woman originated around that
time, too."
**
5. madsci, 2024
"There's also "Brandy (You're a Fine Girl)" from
1972."
**
6. longknives. 2024
"I get the sense that that usage isn’t the same as fine
meaning “good looking”. While the song does suggest that Brandy is good
looking, it seems like this usage is more about her quality as a person. It’s
the same kind of thing as “they’re fine people”, or “he’s a fine kid”."
**
7. NomenScribe, 2024
"And there's So Fine by the Fiestas 1959."
**
8. NomenScribe, 2024
"I might argue that this could be in the old sense of just
"good" as in the phrase "a fine girl" but the rest of the
song backs you up:
She's so fine, fine, fine She's so fine fa- fa- fa- fine She's so fi-aye-aye-aye-ine She's so fine, fine, fine"
9.
"Well OK then, there's Reet Petite from 1957"
The finest girl you ever want to me-ee-et
10.
"makin' me look up stuff, grumblegrumble
'fine (adj.) mid-13c., "unblemished, refined, pure, free of impurities," also "of high quality, choice," from Old French fin "perfected, of highest quality" (12c.), a back-formation from finire or else from Latin finis "that which divides, a boundary, limit, border, end" (see finish (v.)); hence "acme, peak, height," as in finis boni "the highest good." The English word is from c. 1300 as "rich, valuable, costly;" also in a moral sense "true, genuine; faithful, constant." From late 14c. as "expertly fashioned, well or skillfully made," also, of cloth, "delicately wrought." Of weapons or edges, "sharp" from c. 1400. In reference to quality of gold and silver, late 15c.'
11.
"it just means good. like fine china or silver. not really an
etymology, i suppose"...
12.
"This may be a dialect issue, but as someone who graduated
high school in southern California in 2001, I can confirm that OP is right that
there was a distinct usage of the term in the ‘80s and ‘90s, namely “sexy, hot”
rather than “good, refined.” But this may date back at least to The Chiffons’
“He’s So Fine” (1963)."
**
13. altgrave, 2024
"oh, i wasn't contesting that. i was merely saying it means
the same."
**
14, Ass_feldspar, 2024
"You are right. The coolness of fine definitely comes from
black culture."
**
15. [deleted], 2024
"I'm not sure it's distinct in meaning, but obviously had a
revival of use in that way in certain cultures.
'Fine' has implied qualities of beauty for a long time."
**
16, BucketsMcGaughey, 2024
"You're going to have to go back a lot further than that. For
example, here's "Country Girl" by The Johnny Otis Show. "She's
so fine, great big country girl, she's the finest thing I've seen in the
world"
17.
"hey mickey 1980 d... u ... folks steal so much it makes u
....ed fine is obviously black american goes back waaaay before the 70 s 80s
also the hey mickey girl got her start from dancing with black male group the
lockers hint hint google her and the lockers ..d... yall steal and lie so much
u forget where u steal it from"
18.
"This definitions sounds like what you mean, from the Oxford
English Dictionary's definition of fine number II.9.a.:
The earliest citation of this definition dates to
"c1450 (c1350)" whatever that means, with this quote from
"Alexander & Dindimus (Bodleian MS.) (1929) l. 591":
'Gravus of gret prys ȝe grayþe ȝou tille, And but hit fair be
and fin folie ȝe holden.'
My Middle English isn't good enough to know if that is using
"fine" to refer to a person or a thing, but the next citation from
1588 is more clear:
'Women of middle beautie, neyther so fine, as to make euery
man to loue, nor so foule, as to make euery man hate them.'
So it's been used in the sense you ask from at least 1588,
and probably much earlier.
The dictionary also notes:
[In the 18th cent. frequent in general use modifying woman,
girl, etc., in contexts where the usual term would now be ‘beautiful’ or
‘pretty’, equivalent to French une belle femme in similar use.]
The first citation they have that sounds modern to me is
1959, from "A. Anderson, Lover Man 115":
‘She was fine, wasn't she?’... ‘I got a gal..that's finer
than that.’
So this form of the word was always around in English at
least to some degree, but African American vernacular kept it alive and
re-popularized it, is my understanding from all that."
**
19. AtabeyMomona, OP, 2024
"That makes sense. Thank you. I appreciate the deeper dive."
**
20. [deleted], 2024
"It was widely used in the '70s when I was a teenager. It was
probably used before that. I think it might have originated in the
African-American community."
**
21.sfocolleen, 2024
"We said it all the time in the 80s."
**
22. Ok_Television9820, 2024
"At least as far back as 1963.
The Chiffons, “He’s So Fine”
https://youtu.be/rinz9Avvq6A?si=4OL2vvT_DHCBm2Ef
**
23. Ok_Television9820, 2024
"Sure!
I have a hunch that if you try specifically Black American slang, you will see that going back a ways earlier. Having it go “mainstream” in the 80’s fits a general pattern for that sort of thing.
Edit: incidentally that song is also famous for being the
one George Harrison was found to have infringed copyright-wise with “My Sweet
Lord.” "
-snip-
https://www.nytimes.com/1976/09/08/archives/george-harrison-guilty-of-plagiarizing-subconsciously-a-62-tune-for.html "George Harrison Guilty of Plagiarizing, Subconsciously, a
'62 Tune for a '70 Hit" [Complete reprint] 9/08/1976
"George Harrison, the former Beatle, was found guilty
yesterday of “subconsciously” plagiarizing the 1962 John Mack tune “He's So
Fine” for Mr. Harrison's 1970 hit record, “My Sweet Lord.”
Judge Richard Owen of the United States District Court in Manhattan, a composer himself, ruled that Mr. Harrison was guilty of copyright infringement, although the judge concluded. “I do not believe he did so deliberately.”
Judge Owen scheduled Nov. 8 for trial on the issue of damages in the lawsuit brought against Mr. Harrison by the Bright Tunes Music Corporation, which owns the copyright to “He's So Fine.”
“It is clear,” the judge said, “that My Sweet Lord is the very same song as ‘He's So Fine.’ This is, under the law infringement of copyright and is no less so even though subconsciously accomplished.”
“He's So Fine” was one of the top hits in England in 1963, Judge Owen said. Years later Mr. Harrison began putting together his “My Sweet Lord” during a singing engagement in Copenhagen, Judge Owen said, and completed it in London. The song was issued by Apple Records, the Beatles' recording company.
Judge Owen said it was apparent from the trial evidence that Mr. Harrison had not been conscious of the fact that he was plagiarizing the theme of “He's So Fine.”
“I conclude,” he said, that the composer, “in seeking
musical materials to clothe his thought . . . there came to the surface of his
mind a particular combination that pleased him as being one he felt would be
appealing to a prospective listener.” Mr. Harrison's subconscious mind, Judge
Owen said, “knew this combination of sounds would work because it already had
worked in a song his conscious mind did not remember.’"
****
ADDENDUM- The Chiffons - "He's So Fine"
OldiesUploadz, Nov 14, 2011
-snip-
Click https://genius.com/The-chiffons-hes-so-fine-lyrics for this song's lyrics.
Here's the first verse of that song:
"[Verse 1]
He's so fine (Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
Wish he were mine (Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
That handsome boy over there (Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
The one with the wavy hair (Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
I don't know how I'm gonna do it
(Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
But, I'm gonna make him mine (Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
He's the envy of all the girls (Doo-lang-doo-lang-doo-lang)
It's just a matter of time (Doo-lang-doo-lang)"...
**
Here's a note from the About section of that genuis.com page:
"This song spent four weeks at #1 on Billboard’s Hot 100 chart in spring 1963.
George Harrison was found guilty of ‘subconscious plagiarism’ of this song when he released “My Sweet Lord”. The verdict caused a tidal wave in the music world with many artists rushing to add credits to their songs in which they borrowed similar tunes or were heavily inspired by."
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This concludes Part I of this two part pancocojams post.
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