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Tuesday, April 12, 2016

New York Mayor Bill De Blasio's CP Time Joke & Comments About "CP Time", "African Time" & Similar Time Concepts

Edited by Azizi Powell

A lot of media attention has been given to New York City mayor Bill De Blasio's April 9, 2016 joke about "CP time"

Here's one article about that from http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/york-mayor-de-blasio-faces-criticism-joking-cp/story?id=38320320
"New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is facing some criticism for joking about "CP time" while performing in a comedic sketch alongside Hillary Clinton at a charity event over the weekend.

During Inner Circle's annual event in New York City that includes musical and comedy performances by local politicians and reporters, Clinton made a surprise cameo during a scripted scene with de Blasio and Leslie Odom Jr., who plays Aaron Burr in the Broadway show “Hamilton.”

Clinton joked with de Blasio about how long it took him to endorse her for president, to which the New York City mayor (and Clinton's former Senate campaign manager) quipped back, “Sorry, Hillary. I was running on CP time." The remark is an apparent reference to colored people time -- a phrase sometimes used as a stereotypical reference to black people supposedly being late to everything.

In a video of the skit, released by the mayor's office on Sunday night, the audience appears to laugh awkwardly at the remark. One man in the crowd can be heard shouting, “No!"

"That’s not -- I don’t, I don’t like jokes like that, Bill,” Odom, who is African-American, said.

Clinton then interjected. “Cautious politician time," she explained. “I’ve been there.”

De Blasio, whose wife is black, explained the joke during an interview on CNN on Monday night. "It was clearly a staged show. It was a scripted show. The whole idea was to do the counter-intuitive by saying cautious politician time. Every actor thought it was a joke on a different convention. That was the whole idea," he said. "I think people are missing the point here."...

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YOUTUBE VIDEO OF MAYOR DE BLASIO'S "CP TIME" JOKE

Hillary Clinton and Bill de Blasio Joke About CP Time



The Benjamin Dixon Show, Published on Apr 11, 2016

1 Question for you: What if Sanders participated in this sketch?
-snip-
"Sanders" in the video publisher's comment refers to Senator Bernie Sanders, who is competing against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the designation of Democratic candidate for President of the United States.

That video's publisher and -I think- a lot of commenters in that video's discussion thread were Bernie Sanders supporters. Putting aside the political pros and cons about whether people should support Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, or another person for President of the United States, I agree with some commenters that it was a political gaffe for Bill de Blasio (a Clinton supporter) to refer to "CP time" and for Hillary Clinton to change the meaning of that term to "cautious politician time". I get that that joke was supposed to allude to the fact that it took de Blasio some time before he endorsed Clinton. But, I believe that the use of "CP time" phrase in an attempt to be "witty" and/or "funny" gave ammunition to people who were alert for reasons to criticize their favored candidate's competitor.

Do I (as an African American) think that the use of "CP time" means that either Bill de Blasio or Hillary Clinton or both are racist? No. Did I find the joke offensive? No, but as a joke I rate it a fail.

Also, I was struck by the number of commenters in that video's YouTube discussion thread that took umbrage at (African American) Leslie Odoms Jr.'s participation in that joke. At least one commenter used a four letter form of what is commonly now called "the n word" as a referent for Leslie Odoms, Jr. And several commenters wrote that Odoms Jr. was "dressed as a slave". A couple of commenters corrected that erronneous assumption with the information that Leslie Odom, Jr. is a star of the hit Broadway show "Hamilton" and was dressed as the early 19th century United States Vice President "Aaron Burr".

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COMMENTS AND INFORMATION ABOUT WESTERN & NON-WESTERN CONCEPTS OF TIME
While "CP time" can be categorized as an offensive phrase, as an African American, I think it can be helpful to consider why it is (or it may be) offensive.

"CP time" is a stereotype because it states or implies that "all Black people act the same way", "Black people are always late", and "Black sponsored events will always start after their designated starting time." None of these statements are true. That said, in my experience, it's common for a number of African American social events to start later than the announced starting time.

I think that one reason why the term "CP time" may be considered offensive is because the referent "Colored People" in and of itself is problematic. "Colored people" is a dated, old time referent for African Americans that was retired by at least the mid 1960s. I'm not sure if African Americans even use the term "CP" time anymore, or if many African Americans even remember that "Colored People" was once the preferred referent for Black Americans. Perhaps because the term "Colored People" is offensive in and of itself, I've read that the term "CP time" has been changed to "BP time" or "Black people's time". However, I've never heard either of those terms used.

My recollection of hearing the term "CP time" being used (by African Americans) and using that term myself (probably not since the 1990s) was that it was a mild joke as well as a self-fulfilling statement of fact, i.e. since people's experience was that many Black sponsored social events would start late, they purposely didn't arrive at the event until later than the announced starting time.

However, for me and for some other (mostly afrocentric) Black people I knew who also used the term "CP time" or heard it used, "operating on "CP time" not only might be viewed as a given, but being later than the designated time might just be a different way of conceptualizing time and a different way of reacting or responding to the passage of time than the rigid way that Western society (i.e. White folks) view/ed time.

Here are some excerpts from several articles about "CP time" and other similar concepts of strict time adherence & being late [I've assigned numbers to these excerpts for referencing purposes only.]

Excerpt #1:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored_People%27s_Time
"Colored People's Time, or CPT, or CP Time (also referred to as Black People Time) is an American expression referring to a negative stereotype of African Americans as frequently being late. [1][2][3][4].

The expression is often described as a racist and negative stereotype[5][6][7][8]

In media
The phrase or initialism has been referenced numerous times in various types of media, including the films Bamboozled, Undercover Brother, Let's Do It Again, House Party and several television series: The Mindy Project, Prison Break, The Boondocks, The Wire, Weeds, Where My Dogs At?, Reno 911, 30 Rock, Everybody Hates Chris, The PJs, Bridezillas, Mad TV and Cedric the Entertainer Presents, Empire, and reality series The Real Housewives of Atlanta. In the Black Jeopardy sketch aired during the March 29, 2014 episode of Saturday Night Live, host Alex Treblack (Kenan Thompson) says upon the sound of the final bell, "As usual, we started late."...

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Excerpt #2:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardiness#Tardiness_stereotypes
"Tardiness stereotypes
There are several stereotypes which associate tardiness with certain categories of people. African time (or "Africa time" or "Caribbean time") is the perceived cultural tendency, in parts of Africa and the Caribbean[4] toward a more relaxed attitude to time.[5][6][7] This is sometimes used in a pejorative sense, about tardiness in appointments, meetings and events.[8] This also includes the more leisurely, relaxed, and less rigorously-scheduled lifestyle found in African countries, especially as opposed to the more clock-bound pace of daily life in Western countries.[9][10]

Colored People's Time (also referred to as Negro Time) is an American expression referring to a stereotype of African Americans as frequently being late.[11][12][13][14]

Other terms referring to a loose attitude to time include "Hawaiian time" and "island time". [15]

A similar term can also apply to South Asians in the form of Indian standard time or IST.[16][17][18][19]"...

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Excerpt #3
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_time
"African time (or Africa time or Caribbean time) is the perceived cultural tendency, in parts of Africa and the Caribbean[1] toward a more relaxed attitude to time.[2][3][4] This is sometimes used in a pejorative sense, about tardiness in appointments, meetings and events.[5] This also includes the more leisurely, relaxed, and less rigorously-scheduled lifestyle found in African countries, especially as opposed to the more clock-bound pace of daily life in Western countries.[6][7] As such, it is similar to time orientations in some other non-Western culture regions...

Aspects of African time
The appearance of a simple lack of punctuality or a lax attitude about time in Africa, may instead reflect a different approach and method in managing tasks, events, and interactions. African cultures are often described as "polychronic,"[8][9] which means people tend to manage more than one thing at a time rather than in a strict sequence. Personal interactions and relationships are also managed in this way, such that it is not uncommon to have more than one simultaneous conversation.[9] An African "emotional time consciousness" has been suggested which contrasts with Western "mechanical time consciousness".[10]

In the Caribbean, "...[t]hings just won't always happen as quickly or as precisely as you may be accustomed to." Due to the cultural influence of "Caribbean time" or "island time", locals do not have the sense of time pressure that is part of Western culture.[11]"...

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Excerpt #4:
From http://asb4.com/floor/teaching/timeafr/timeafri.html Bert hamminga The Western versus the African Time Concept
""Future" is a word that both Westerners and Africans know. I have learnt from the African philosopher John S. Mbiti (African Religions and Philosophy, London: Heinemann 1969) how the African "future" differs from the Western one. Mbiti successfully explained it to me in his book "African Religions and Philosophy", because he took the trouble of learning the Western concept of time, and thus understood how to explain the African concept of time to Westerners. A very good result, deserving respect!

To Westerners, time is a set of stripes drawn on the tarmac that is on the road on which we drive. They believe to drive at exactly constant speed, so they think they know exactly when we will cross these stripes. There is one big stripe every hour, a small one every minute, a very small one every second, and so on....

Instead of hours and numerical dates, Africans traditionally rely on emotional marks of time, like when you were born, when you married, when you had you first child, when there was a war. But as far as the future is concerned these marks are still to be made, and the African typically considers his or her influence on that as small.

The difference between the Western mechanical and African emotional time consciousness is a highly instructive one: it explains a lot of intercultural differences and problems of intercultural contact in any kind of business. Of course, also Westerners experience emotional time. Important events in your life, say a new job in another town, a marriage, a baby "mark" your past in that some things will later be experienced as before or after this or that important event. The typical holiday experience is that after a few days you feel you left home ages ago, while upon return it feels you just left. In waiting for something time "goes slowly", in hurrying for something time "goes fast". The difference between Western and African time consciousness is that a Westerner asks: "when did your grandfather die". The answer is "15 years ago". The African asks "When was 15 years ago". And the answer is "When your grandfather died". What is the difference? That is far less obvious than it seems at first sight...

European cultural superstition is that time runs regularly, and the future points in time come near in the same regular speed as past points in time withdraw: exactly 1 second per second by definition. Traditionally, Africans do not believe this....

The African interpretation of time starts thus: events occur in some order: there is "before" and there is "after". In African languages, there is a number of tenses that indicate roughly "how much" before, and how much after. There usually is a tense for "at that time", for "after that", for "a considerable time after that", and "a very long time after". That does not sound strange to a Westerner. He also has such rough ideas on events. But the Westerner's clock and calendar gives him the option of filing the event as having occurred at a certain numerical date-time. The Westerner deems that more "precise". He wants to have trains running on schedule and fly to the moon. Africans have different aims in life. They want to "live" their own way. Traditionally, Africans have no concept of historical progress: in every life of every person the same happens. There is no thrive to change things. They have another idea of preciseness: emotional preciseness. The past is a chain of events. It has its places that are marked in memory, just as when you travel far through an unknown area. You will remember the river crossed, the mountain pass climbed. In time, you remember your eldest brother getting his first child, your great grandfather dying, your harvest spoiled by torrential rains, a war. Those are the tops of the "hours" in the memory of the African. Between them are the minor events as "minutes". Westerners would say these hours do not have equal length. Africans are not interested at all in such considerations. By talking en passing over history orally to one another, they cut themselves a wooden past that feels like a comfortable place well connected to the present. A history to rest upon comfortably. Not so Westerners, who run puffing after the time they created to be their master!"..

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Excerpt #5:
From http://www.chicagonow.com/becoming-nikki-lynette/2009/12/cp-time-does-my-black-race-indicate-ill-always-be-late/ "CP Time": Does my Black race indicate I'll always be late? by Nikki Lynette, December 2, 2009
..."CP Time" (Colored Peoples' Time), is a term attributed to the belief that people of color operate on their own sense of time, which doesn't adhere to the clock. The generalization that black people are fated to be tardy sounds like a pretty lame stereotype. Yet, I have to admit, when I do business with African American people, it rarely EVER starts on time. I know that tardiness can happen to anybody, but it has become so thoroughly engrained into African American culture that we often use the term amongst ourselves. And we use it as an excuse for not being timely as well. So is it a myth? Or has CPT become a fact of life?

I asked my followers on Twitter if they believe CPT is a fact or a myth. Some of their responses were really surprising.

Colored People's Time, CP Time, or CPT, is actually a commonly used American expression that refers to the stereotype of African Americans or Latinos frequently being late. Aside from the obvious problems with using the word "Colored" in the 21st century, CPT is not inherently a negative thing. Its actually an inside joke, because many people of color use the term themselves, making light of when they're late. I just can't help but wonder if the joke has been taken too far."...

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11 comments:

  1. This is a new expression and a new concept to me. I've literally never heard of it where I live. There isn't, as far as I know, any belief that black British people have an attitude towards punctuality or timekeeping at all different from their white compatriots. (There is a lingering belief that the Irish have, but even that most people think is an amiable myth which wouldn't hold up to scrutiny.)

    There's still a pretty general conviction though that countries in northern Europe care more about punctuality than those in the south, a vague idea that people in hot countries are somehow more relaxed about time. You still occasionally hear it said that Spain for example has a 'maƱana' culture. But I doubt it's true.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Hello, slam2011

      Thanks for your comment.

      "The degree to which a culture cares about punctuality" is a good way of conceptualizing this topic.

      Delete
    2. Here's another post that I found about CPT:
      http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/03/black_stereotype_c_p_time_is_not_a_myth.html It’s Time to Quit Operating on C.P. Time; “You know how we are.” It’s a stereotype that, for some, is all too real and all too frustrating.
      BY: T.J. HOLMES, March 14 2014
      -snip-
      That post focuses on Black Americans being late for business appointments.

      That author wrote that "You know how we are.” is what Black Americans say to brush off the habit of Black people being late for business appointments and for Black events starting later than the scheduled starting time.

      I agree with the point that anyone with a business appointment should be either early or on time for that appointment.

      Here are three comments from that post:
      Lisa Thompson Jun 17, 2014
      "CP time is cultural, you'll find this type of fluidity and attitude with time across all Black nations, within and outside of the continent. Look up African time. Don't talk about things you're unfamiliar with. Adjust it so that the event starts at the time you want. Not hard. I do it all the time lol."

      **
      Nebsen Mar 17, 2014
      "I hear & agree with the article ; but is it just African Americans ? Yes, here in the good OL' USA being on time is a, must , but I have heard for years that other countries esp. south of the boarder &, Africa,& certain countries in Southern half of Europe seems to run on a different time table from most westerners,"

      **
      borrokatu Mar 15, 2014
      "I had a couple of employee that tried that CPT thang . They went from CPT to UPT pretty fast."
      -snip-
      I'm assuming that UPT meant "Unemployment time".

      I can understand why employees who were constantly late would be fired, but 1. whether they were Black (or otherwise People of Color or not) the reason why they were late may not have been because of the concept of CPT. For instance, bus schedules and/or having to get a child to school or to a babysitter before going to school might make getting to work on time a challenge.

      and

      2. Hopefully, if an employee was late several times within a short period of time, hopefully an employer met with him or her to find out why that was and gave the employee warnings before any probation or firing.

      Delete
    3. Here are three comments from yet another post about New York City Mayor de Blasio CP Time joke/skit:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/04/12/1514476/-Hillary-Clinton-Puts-Racially-Charged-Skit-on-Bill-de-Blasio-s-Shoulders
      reesetheone Apr 12, 2016
      "Joy reid surveyed minorities in the bronx today about it. Her feedback from those surveyed: MEH."
      -snip-
      Joy Reid is an African American MSNBC [a national United States cable television station] reporter.

      According to http://www.netlingo.com/word/meh.php. meh is "A sound used to express indifference or apathy. Instead of responding with a "yes" or a "no", "meh" portrays indifference to the question"
      -end of quote-
      MEH in capital letters might mean that people really are indifferent to the question/subject.

      **
      MadScientist Apr 12, 2016
      "It was a bad joke.

      In the South, we talk about Southern Standard Time, a humorous allusion to our relaxed attitude toward time. But somehow, its not nearly as humorous when a Yankee says it."

      **

      DisNoir36 [reply to] MadScientist Apr 12, 2016
      "In NY we are on the opposite end of the spectrum. Everything is lightning fast. We have a 'in a New York minute' which means as fast as possible. Or as Johnny Carson once said the time between two traffic lights. Us Yankees also make fun of the relaxed attitude towards time in other parts of the country and rush to get everything done. Hell in Staten Island they rush to speak so much that multiple words get mashed up and letters get dropped. So Staten Island becomes something like Statnilan and Arthur Kill is Arthakil"

      Delete
  2. I think MadScientist (above) got it exactly right. Some in-group jokes cease to be funny when an outsider makes them.

    Since you're a music-history person, here's a link to a Wikipedia article about an old vaudeville song poking fun at the Irish attitude to time-keeping. The man who wrote it got sued:)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_Ye_Right_There_Michael

    And sometime, I have to ask you to show me how to post links here so they work.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks slam2011!

      That vaudeville song poking fun at the Irish o Irish attitude to time keeping is a great addition to this discussion!

      Here's the hyperlink to that Wikipedia article:
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_Ye_Right_There_Michael

      A friend who I met from the Mudcat folk music discussion thread (and who I regrettably has lost touch with) taught me how to post links online using html code.

      Here's the link for that information: http://www.echoecho.com/htmllinks01.htm

      Making hyperlinks the old fashioned way is easier than it sounds. Sometimes I still get it wrong, but the mistake I made in writing that hyperlink is noted in red at the top of the post I'm typing (or on the top of this comment box) which makes it easier to reread the attempted hyperlink and go back and fix it so it works.

      Thanks again, slam2011!

      Delete
    2. Also, slam2011, in regards to your comment that "Some in-group jokes cease to be funny when an outsider makes them.", that raises the interesting question "Did New York Mayor Bill de Blasio say that CP time skit/joke" thinking that it would be acceptable for him to use Black in-group humor or Black in-group references because he is married to a Black woman and has two Black (mixed race) children?

      That leads to a larger question of whether being married into another race, or ethnic group, or culture automatically entitles or ever entitles that person to certain in-group privileges.

      I believe that "privileges" aren't automatically conveyed by such marriages (or by adopting a child from that group, or by being friends with a person or people who belong to that group as a result of blood ties).

      African Americans have a saying that people have to "pay their dues". I think that saying fits these circumstances.

      I don't know much about Mayor de Blasio and therefore I can't say if he has "paid his dues" (in the "Black club") or not.

      Delete
    3. Please excuse my typos in these comments. :(

      I see them but I've chosen not to delete that comment and re-post corrected comments because doing so would mess up the flow of comments/replies.

      Delete
  3. That's an interesting point. If his wife and kids are black then I'd say yes, it's okay for him to share their humour when he's home with them, because you wouldn't want to start drawing race lines within a family. But if he carries it into the public domain, it changes. Humour does change in a new environment. It's okay for a man to tease his wife e.g. about monopolising the bathroom: but if he's a politician and he works those kind of jokes into his speeches, I'm apt to think he's patronising me. He loses my vote.

    Thanks for the link by the way, got it now:)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've never been in a racially mixed marriage, but I was in a racially mixed romantic relationship for a short time. And I wouldn't have liked him to make any Black "in jokes". There were things about Black culture that I had to school him on, while I felt that I knew about his White culture (since I live in a majority White nation, and had been enculturated and continue to be enculturated in majority White mores).

      Also, I'm not sure about whether it's ever okay for a person of another race/ethnicity/religion etc to share "in-jokes" from another race with people of that race, even if that person is alone with a member or members of that race/ethnicity, religion. I suppose it depends on the people and on the joke, and the age/s of the people who are around him or her when the joke is being told. I say that because children learn a lot by modeling and how would (for example) children who are Black/White - which means in the USA if not in other nations - that they are considered Black- know that it wouldn't be okay for their White parent to make Black in-jokes outside their family?)

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      You're welcome regarding my sharing that html code link.

      Delete
    2. I've never been in a racially mixed marriage, but I was in a racially mixed romantic relationship for a short time. And I wouldn't have liked him to make any Black "in jokes". There were things about Black culture that I had to school him on, while I felt that I knew about his White culture (since I live in a majority White nation, and had been enculturated and continue to be enculturated in majority White mores).

      Also, I'm not sure about whether it's ever okay for a person of another race/ethnicity/religion etc to share "in-jokes" from another race with people of that race, even if that person is alone with a member or members of that race/ethnicity, religion. I suppose it depends on the people and on the joke, and the age/s of the people who are around him or her when the joke is being told. I say that because children learn a lot by modeling their words and actions after what their parents say and do. Therefore, how would (for example) children who are Black/White - which means in the USA if not in other nations - that they are considered Black- know that it wouldn't be okay for their White parent to make Black in-jokes outside their family?)

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      You're welcome regarding my sharing that html code link.

      Delete