Latest Update- August 24, 2022
This pancocojams post presents information about and examples of the rhyme "Puddin Tane" (or similarly sounding words).
This post is presented for folkloric and recreational purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.
Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.
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COMMENTS ABOUT THE RHYME "PUDDIN TANE"
These comments are presented in chronological order according to their posting date online, with the oldest comments given first.
COMMENT #1:
From: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0110A&L=ads-l&P=R5702 [link no longer working]
Subject: Pudding tame
From: "Douglas G. Wilson"
Reply-To: American Dialect Society
Date: October 4, 2001
"Of course in researching the history of "poontang" I came upon remarks to the effect that this word seems to be reflected in a children's rhyme (still current, I think) along the lines of
What's your name?
Pudding tame.
[Ask me again and I'll tell you the same.]
In fact "pudding tame" and variants (pudding/puddin' [and] tame/tane/tang) are used today with the sense "I won't tell you my name" (e.g., often as a 'handle' or pen-name on the Internet, = "Anonymous"). The expression was used in the "X-files" TV program in 1999.
The rhyme appeared in the US by 1895, when it was cited in "Dialect Notes". Already we're out of the "poontang" milieu, I think; but in case there's any doubt, I find quoted from 1861 a version supposedly from ca. 1825 (apparently from Sussex?):
What's yer naüm?
Pudding and taüm.
Back a little further (ca. 1590), I find reason to believe there was approximately:
[What is your name?]
Pudding of Thame.
Now at least the expression has some surface sense, maybe. Thame is a place-name -- in particular a town in Oxfordshire, I believe. So "pudding of Thame" might have been the name of a food, perhaps similar (or at least analogous) to Oxford sausage, say. Still the expression is meaningless in the context, and I wonder whether
(1) it might even earlier have been something else ("pudding at home"? "Pudding Tom"? "pudding time"?) which maintained the rhyme in some early or regional pronunciation, and whether
(2) there is some recognizable double-entendre or other joke here in16th-century (or earlier) English.
Any ideas?
-- Doug Wilson
-snip-
This is the complete post from that site. It was referenced in a discussion of the word "poontang" by the "take my word for it" website http://www.takeourword.com/pt.html "The Etymology of Slang Sexual Terms." That take my word for it page included a hyperlink [that is now broken] to the comment that's given above along with this statement: "He [linguist Doug Wilson ] concludes that the two [poontang and Puddin Tane] are not related, and he gives some good evidence."
-snip-
I've re-formatted this post to make it easier to read
Update: August 24, 2022
Here's the complete reprint about "pudding of Thames" from https://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ads-l/2001-October/017775.html
"Pudding tame
Douglas G. Wilson douglas at NB.NET
Fri Oct 5 04:20:26 UTC 2001
Previous message (by thread): Pudding tame
"According to Iona and Peter Opie _Lore and Language of Schoolchildren_ (the
best UK study, albeit published in 1950s, of such material), who quote therhyme as 'US' and specifically 'Maryland' my earlier suggested link todialect 'pudding time' is wrong. They trace the term to Sussex and add -
I saw 2-3 US instances from different states from ca. 1900. I think this rhyme must have come from England, though; the resemblance to "Pudding of Thame" [this is how it is printed in Harsnett's book, at least in the 1603 edition which I reviewed] is too strong to be coincidence IMHO.
I think "pudding time" is apt. It is probably old enough (1546, OED), it was not narrowly limited in dialect AFAIK, and it makes a good-enough joke, the sense presumably "No need for my name, just call out 'pudding time' [i.e., 'time to eat'] and I'll appear." Cf. the 20th-century [and probably earlier?] joke: "You can call me anything, as long as you don't call me late for dinner." However, I would like the rhyme to be maintained. Was "time" pronounced to rhyme or nearly rhyme with "name" in ca.-1500 England, perhaps? Or could it be regional? Can we do without the rhyme?
If one reads only Opie's footnote (above), one might think
that the expression in question was perhaps a conventional ca.-1600
epithet for Satan, like "Old Scratch" maybe. But this is not the
case at all: rather,
in Harsnett's book (seemingly a skeptical and sarcastic
review of some contemporary 'exorcisms'), multiple devils during exorcism
identify themselves with various whimsical names (some recognizable
from slang, contemporary songs, etc.) (some of the names were later used
by Shakespeare in "King Lear"), and this one was recognized
from/as an already existing joke, which I suspect was simply the same rhyme still known
today.
- Doug Wilson
-snip-
Here's a tweet (with a reply) that mentions the devil "Pudding of Thame"
from https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/811209249409921024?lang=en
Tom Holland
@holland_tom
Lusty Dick, Hob, Pudding of Thame, Haberdicut, Cocobatto,
Delicate, Cornercap, Motubizanto, Lusty Jolly Jenkin - names of Jacobean demons
8:58 AM · Dec 20, 2016·Twitter for iPhone
**
Jessie Childs
@childs_jessie
Dec 20, 2016
Replying to
@holland_tom
Not forgetting Flibbertigibbet! Many originally Elizabethan
- from the 1585-6 exorcisms."
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note:
Given this information about the name of the Jacobean devil (demon), my position is that the name "Puddin Tane" derived from "Pudding Of Thame" [the river Thames in England] and later "Puddin Tame".
COMMENT #2:
From http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=94034 Origins: Down by the Banks of the Hanky Panky, posted by Jim Dixon, April 11, 2009
The quote from McDougal* reminds me of a parallel smart-alecky reply:
"What's your name?" – "Puddentain. [However you spell it.] Ask me again, I'll tell you the same."
I learned that from a "Little Rascals/Our Gang" comedy that was shown on TV when I was a kid in the 1950s. (Who said it? Stymie?)
– but it goes back at least to –
From The Beulah Spa (a play) by Charles Dance (London: John Miller, 1833):
MAG. ... What is her name?
HEC. Pudding and tame—if you ask me again I shall tell you the same.
-snip-
*The words "the quote from McDougal" refer to a blogger's comment that is unrelated to this subject.
****
COMMENT #3:
From http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=104417 "Folklore: Puddin Tane & Other Rhyming Sayings" [hereafter known as Mudcat: Puddin Tane]
- posted by Lighter, September 16, 2007
Alice Kane was born in 1908 and grew up in Ulster. Her book, Songs and Sayings of an Ulster Childhood, written with Edith Fowke, includes the following:
"What's your name?" - Mary Jane.
"Where do you live?" - Down the lane.
Her mother knew,
"What's your name?" - Curds and cream' (pronounced crame)
"What they call you?" - Pudgy dolly.
I suppose "call ye" sort of rhymes with "dolly."
-snip-
“Uster” is a province in the northern part of Ireland.
****
COMMENT #4:
From Mudcat: Puddin Tane, posted by kytrad*, September 15, 2007
Well I'm older than all of you, and our KY mountain village was quite isolated until just after the turn of the last century, early 1900s, thereabouts. We had never heard the word 'poontang,' but we did have the rhyme under discussion. Here's how it goes:
What's your name?
Puddin & Tame
Where d'you live?
Up the lane
Where d'you go?
Go to school
What d'you sit on?
Sit on a stool
What d'you look like?
Look like a fool!
There may have been one or two other rhymes in there- can't remember it all just now. It was said only for the fun of the rhyming, and sometimes for tricking someone into saying, "look like a fool," when all the gang would laugh at the joke.
-snip-
*”kytrad” is the Mudcat forum screen name for the acclaimed American folk singer Jean Ritchie
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COMMENT #5:
From Mudcat: Puddin Tane, posted by Azizi, September 1, 2007
The following examples are from this resource: Western Folklore, Vol. 13, No. 2/3 (1954), pp. 190-198 - "Children's Taunts, Teases, and Disrespectful Sayings from Southern California," by Ray B. Browne.
{h/t to Joe Offer for pointing out this article in his post on Mudcat's "Depression Era Children's song" thread}
[Note: the numbers ascribed to these examples by the article's author]
27a.
What's your name?
Pudd'n Tame.
Ask me again
And I'll tell you the same.
27b.
What's your name?
Pudd'n Tame.
Where do you live?
Down the lane.
Ask me again
And I'll tell you the same.
[footnotes: from California, also from Alabama, ca. 1935; cf. Musick, 432; for one version same, and one: "What's your name / John Brown / ask me again / and I'll knock you down."]
27c
What's your name?
President Monroe
Ask me again
And you still won't know.
****
COMMENT #6: From Mudcat: Puddin Tane - These words were first posted by Snuffy and the ending rhyme was added by Bryn Pugh who indicated that he remembered that entire rhyme from 1949
What's your name?
Mary Jane
Where d'you live?
Down the grid
What house?
Mickey Mouse
What number?
Cucumber
What street?
Pig's feet
What shop
Lollipop
****
COMMENT #7
From Mudcat: Puddin Tane, Azizi Powell, remembrances from my childhood [Atlantic City, New Jersey,in the 1950s]
What’s your name?
Puddin Tane
Ask me again and I’ll tell you the same. [mid to late 1950s?]
[also]
What’s the word?
Thunderbird. [early to mid 1960s?]
-snip-
"Thunderbird" was (is?) a brand name for a cheap bottle of drinking alcohol.
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[Note: The last three commenters don't include any dates in their remembrances of these rhymes.]
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COMMENT #8: From Mudcat: Puddin Tane, posted by Guest, Young Buchan, October 7, 2007
As children in Suffolk, if someone asked 'What's your name?' we always eplied Puddeny Crane, from a rhyme which I always assumed was widespread, but may not have been, since I tried googling various bits of it and didn't get a huge response:
What's your name? Puddeny Crane
Where do you live? Down the lane
What do you keep? A little shop
What do you sell? Candy floss [or sometime lollipops]
-snip-
I think this blogger means Suffolk, UK.
****
COMMENT #9: From Mudcat: Puddin Tane, posted by Guest Schuyer, October 11, 2010
I remember this from a song my sibling, friends, and I sang when we was in a kid. It went:
What's your name?
Puddin' Tane.
Where do you live?
Down the lane.
What's your phone number?
Cucumber.
What'd you eat?
Pigs feet.
What'd you drink?
A bottle of ink.
I believe there was also a part after saying "A bottle of ink" where we said "to make you stink" or something like that
****
COMMENT #10: From Mudcat-Puddin Tane , posted by Guest Patience, September 7, 2011
When I was a child, my Dad would teach me to say:
What's your name? Puddin' Tane.
Where do you live? Down the lane.
What's your number? Cucumber.
What do you eat? Bread and meat.
Hence, my Dad and one of the next door neighbors always used to call me "Puddin'".
****
COMMENT #11: [Added August 24, 2022]
From: https://blindpigandtheacorn.com/whats-your-name-puddin-tame/ Sept..19, 2018 [Applachia]
Judy Imanse: My
mother, who died last year, was 98 years old. She used to recite this when I
was little, I’m close to 77, and I believe it came from her mother. My
grandmother’s family moved to Indiana from North Carolina. What’s your name?
Puddintane. Where do you live? down the lane. What do you do? teach school. How
many students? 22. What do they sit on? little stools. ‘What do they look like?
little fools!
Quinn: What’s your name? PuddinTane! Where do you live? In a sieve! What’s your number? Cucumber! I learned it as a rhyme for jumping rope and clapping games and such. Really answering like that would have been very fresh…and probably not something I’d have tried a second time!
Bob Adcock: Down in “wiregrass country” it was common. Also, the esteemed Barney Fife used it in an Andy Griffith episode!
Bill Danner: It is from “The King of Boyville” by William Allen White, which is part of “The Court of Boyville” written in 1899. It is in response to an inquiry to the main character Piggy Pennington inquiring as to his name and the answer got the smaller new boy soundly thrashed. Well worth the read – good 1899 slang."...
#1. NANCY BIGGS, March 30, 2021 at 8:50 pm
"Hadn’t thought about Puddin Tane for a very long time. Used to recite it in north-central West Virginia ( Harrison County) as a child 1935-45. Various question/answer rhymes followed the initial question. If I recall one child asked the question, other child had to answer with a rhyme answer or get pinched.”…
**
2. JOHN ADSMS, May 17, 2021 at 7:45 pm
"My Mom used both of your sayings. She lived for a short time
with my older brother in Ducktown Tennessee. Pudnin’ Tain was like a nursery
rhyme, she asked the questions and I answered. “What’s your name?” Pudnin’
Tain. Where do you live? Down the lane. What’s your phone number? Rotten
cucumber. Mom said that “A whistling woman and a cackling hen came to the same
bad end.!”
3.
..."We said it as “Puddin’-tain” ask me again and I’ll tell you
again! Also made up several following sentences with rhyming words…
Loved all these comments…
We used this little ditty for jumping rope too….and
sometimes as a clapping rhyme…"
**
4. AARON PATTERSON, March 25, 2019 at 6:18 am
"Pudding ‘n tain was a record by the Alley Cats back in 1963.
Phil Spector productions ! Listen on you-tube. Cute song. I was in 10th grade
and remember it well."
-snip-
Pancocojams Editor's Note:
Here's a link to a sound file of the record "Puddin' N Tain" by The Alley Cats":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZrhYsW8leQ
**
5. ANN APPLEGARTH, September 19, 2018 at 8:25 am
"We said that, except we said Puddintane with an n. If you
asked a boy his name, he said, “John Brown. Ask me again and I’ll knock you
down.” My mother said, “My name is Mayro sayro elizabeth jane eda beda ri-si
katherbine payne.”
Thanks for visiting pancocojams.
Visitor comments are welcome.
Been going through my childhood in my head recently (I'm in my 40's) and I remember my mother always saying the puddin tane line, "whats my name? pudden tane, ask me again and I'll tell you the same". I never knew where that came from, I figured it was an old child's saying. Thanks for filling in the gaps for me.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome, Dan.
DeleteI also remember this rhyme from my childhood (in Atlantic City, New Jersey in the 1950s.)
That rhyme appears to have been fairly common along with other verses such as 'What I said, cabbage head" and "Where do you live. In a sieve.'
I don't think I even knew what a "sieve" was. :o)
Just read this great blog ... Love seeing the variety of responses from so many regions!
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, The Hills.
ReplyDeleteI also like discovering how versions of a particular rhyme may change depending on the location, and also on the population and decade the rhyme was chanted.
Unforunately, too few bloggers include demographical information along with their examples.
Best wishes!
My mother was born in the mid 1940s, when I was a child one of her many colorful "sayings" was, "what's your name"? "Puddin 'n Tane!
ReplyDelete"Where do you live?, I live in a hive!!
I used to think she made it up, ands had no clue what the heck she was talking about. :-)
Hello, Unknown. Thanks for your comment. I'm glad your found confirmation that your mother did know what she was talking about when she said that rhyme.
DeleteI wonder if your mother pronounced "live" to rhyme with "hive".
Thanks again for sharing!
Puud (as in Puddycat) & Tane was used among my friends in high school to duck into the crowd if a teacher who didn't know you was trying to get your name because of some mischief. It was also used to avoid a fight. Both were veiled insults, as our definition referred to vaginas. Pudd as in pussy- calling your opponent a coward, and homosexual, a cunt. Tane as in Poon- Tane. Tainted, diseased genitals. Mid 1980s. The books of Charles Earle Funk are good references for this sort of phrase. I believe I also 1st heard it on the Little Rascals. BTW I met one of the Our Gang actresses when I was a child. I wish I remembered her name. She waited tables at a bar in the Colorado Mts.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous December 7, 2015, thanks for sharing your high school memories of Puddycat & Tane. If you read this response, I hope that you will add where (city & state if in the USA, and city/country if outside of the USA) and when (decade) you and your friends did this.
DeleteI wasn't aware of the sexualized meaning and gender meaning for the word "Pudd", but I included a link to an internet article about the sexual term word "poontang" by the "take my word for it" website http://www.takeourword.com/pt.html. That take my word for it page included a hyperlink [that is now broken] to the comment that's given above along with this statement: "He [linguist Doug Wilson ] concludes that the two [poontang and Puddin Tane] are not related, and he gives some good evidence."
That said, I've no doubt that people could have inflated the two terms-plus the term "Pudd" that you mentioned in your comment- and given them a sexual meaning. In my childhood (in the 1950s) when I said that "What's your name/Puddin Tane" rhyme, I didn't think that rhyme had any sexual meaning. If it did, I wouldn't have said it. I think that's true for a number of other children.
Thanks again for your comment!
Poontang has always been referred to as sex by GI's, especially in the Viet Nam war.
DeleteMy mom often said, "What's your name? Put N Tame, Ask me again and I'll tell you the same.
Never knew where it came from, so thx for info. Mom was born 1912. She also used to say, "Well excuse me, l
I fell out of a hearse."
Thanks for sharing that information and examples, Andee in AZ.
DeleteWhile "poontang" definitely does have a sexual meaning, I think that a lot of people (like me) who chanted "What's you're name/Puddin' Tane (or "Puddin Tame"), didn't really think about the words of this rhyme, but focused on the intention- i.e. to "act smart"/taunt somebody.
I remember thinking at a certain age [maybe as a pre-teen or teenager) that "Puddin" was a girl's nickname and "Tane" or "Tame" was her last name.
That's the deepest I got into analyzing this rhyme.
I rew up in westernNew York and remember distinctly from the later 1930s the rhyme: "What's your name ?" followed by :Puddin Tame, Ask me again and I'll tell you the same." I sometimes wondered what it meant but the lines were invariable. That community, north of Buffalo, was predominantly German and Irish in background.
DeleteThanks for your comment, Allan G. Feldt.
DeleteFor the folkloric record, I appreciate your addition of the demographics for the version of "What's Your Name/Puddin Tame".
It's interesting that you remember the last name (word) as "Tame" and not "Tane".
Best wishes.
Hello! I found this blog post while looking for more information on the "Puddin' Tane" rhyme. When I was a toddler in New Jersey, in the early '80s, my grandparents taught me exactly the same version from comment #10 (September 7, 2011) in your post. They had learned it themselves as children in New Egypt, NJ in the early to mid-1920s. When I tried to turn it around on my grandfather by asking what his name was, he would sometimes say, "Puddin' Tane--ask me again and I'll tell you the same!"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, thanks for sharing your memories of "Puddin Tane".
DeleteAlso, as an aside, it's nice to "meet" another person from New Jersey. I'm from Atlantic City and I didn't know there was a city in that state called New Egypt.
I love the internet!
Why am I not surprised thus phrase may have been given sexual connotation in the 70's/80's. I remember it as a childhood rhyme and recently said it back to my child who will now not stop repeating it! Or asking me why? Then thought oh I'm bot really sure what it means or where it came from. Interesting info here. I graduated high school 30 years ago and have 2nd set of late in life children we live in Oklahoma City
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, Kayla Lee.
DeleteThinking about your child repeatedly saying this rhyme and asking "Why?" made me smile.
Fascinating! I got here because I just heard Mulder use a couple of the lines on an X-files rerun (a time travel episode set in WWII) and googled it. I also have a vague memory of the Little Rascals use.
ReplyDeleteI would never have thought to connect it with a jump-rope rhyme of my childhood in northern NJ in the early 70s:
What's your name? Mary Jane.
Where do you live? Down the drain.
What's your number? Cucumber.
What do you eat? Pigs' feet.
What do you drink? Black ink.
Greetings, Julie.
DeleteThanks for sharing your memories of a "What's Your Name?" rhyme. I didn't know that some children chanted rhyme this while jumping rope.
As an aside, I'm from Atlantic City, New Jersey and graduated from college in Northern Jersey in 1969. So I might have seen you walking down the street and asked you what's your name :o)
I found this conversation while trying to find the orgin of my aunt's nickname. Family lore is that aunt Elvera used the phrase "Puddin Tane. Ask me again and I'll tell you the same" to an older aunt Rosco and he always called her "Puddin" after that and it stuck. All her friends and relatives fondly called her "Puddin" for the rest of her life which came to its end in 2011 at 101 years old in Southern California.
ReplyDeleteGreetings, Anonymous.
DeleteThanks for sharing your family's history that is associated with the "Puddin Tane" rhyme. It's interesting how people get their nicknames.
RIP to your aunt Elvera.
I'm from southern NH, born in 1974 and remember it as
ReplyDeleteWhat's your name, puddin' tane
Where do you live, under a bridge
What's your number, cucumber
Thanks for sharing all the different versions.
Thanks and you're welcome, electrong99.
DeleteI love collecting and sharing examples of rhymes and noting how they may differ in small ways and sometimes in not so small ways.
It was used in a cartoon in the 40's, a spoof of actor's Bette Davis and Leslie Howard. She asks: "What's your name?" And he replies with what sounds like most of the responses here, "Puddn' Tane. Ask again and I'll say the same." It's also from the live action black and white film they were both in with Humphrey Bogart.
ReplyDeleteGreetings, mrken.
DeleteHere's the information about this cartoon spoof that I found at https://likelylooneymostlymerrie.blogspot.com/2012/05/160-she-was-acrobats-daughter-1937.html thanks to your comment:
"160. She Was an Acrobat's Daughter (1937)
Warner cartoon no. 159.
Release date: April 10, 1937.
Series: Merrie Melodies.
[...]
Synopsis: Parody of theatre programme with news reels, song and motion picture featuring celebrities and folks inside the cinema room.
[...]
The film begins with Leslie Howard as a hitchhiker walking in the Petrified Forest of Arizona holding a book in his hand. Cars are riding straight past him ignoring the character. Remember this film is just a parody of the movie which would be popular of it's time as this cartoon is pretty dated. Leslie Howard then rings the bell by a railroad pole waiting for a train. Meanwhile there is a donkey member sitting in the audience that sits up doing his duty as a man who delivers foods in the cinema to members of the audience. Because of his loud, annoying voice - the audience kick him out for disrupting the audience as he's tossed out of the theatre continuously shouting "Peanuts, popcorn, Cracker Jacks, chewing gun" still thinking he's on duty.
Back to the film that the audience are watching, the Leslie Howard character then walks into a hamburger inn in the middle of the desert. The Leslie Howard character then demands a waiter to arrive and demand service. The Bette Davis character pop up as there is sort of a relationship going on.
Bettie Davis: What's your name?
Leslie Howard: Puddin Tame. Ask me again, and I'll tell you the same.
Bette Davis: Are you a poet?
Leslie Howard: After a fashion.
Bette Davis: I love poetry.
Leslie Howard: Would you like me to recite?
Bette Davis: No!"...
-snip-
Thanks again for that lead to this use of "What's your name/ Puddn' Tane."
This is BRILLIANT! Thanks. Tears of JOY. Really.
DeleteKen Neal :o)
DeleteGreat post!
ReplyDeleteI’ve been feeding a stray cat lately, and when I ask its name I am reminded of all the times my mother used to say the little rhyme (1950s-60s). I’m going to call the cat Puddin’ if it sticks around =^o.-^=
I appreciate your comment, Laura Dell.
DeleteAnd thanks for sharing your memory of "What's Your Name Puddin Tane" from the 1950s-1960s.
I hope your stray cat Puddin' is still with you :o)
Thank you for this fascinating post! Three years and a day later..... :)). Teaching this to my three year old grandson. Only remember my father saying it quite a bit. I’ve collected some older rhyme books. There is one that was about a gal who waited till Saturday to do her wash ‘oh she’s a slut indeed’ soooo funny! Happy holidays and Joy to all!
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome, Anonymous.
DeleteHappy holidays to you too!
Was wishing I could send a picture. I bought a picture with two musicians playing instruments at a sale and can’t find a title. Was doing jigsaw puzzle by Sue Brabeau ‘the yarn shop’ and spotted knitting bag with similar figures. Can you help me with this? Thank you for your time! Blessings to you and yours
ReplyDeleteHello, Anonymous.
DeleteYour comment motivated me to do a Google search for two musicians playing instruments, but I didn't know which instruments they were playing.
As a result of your comment, I learned about the group "Black Violin". Here's one link to one of that duo's videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEIVzWCRSg8.
Thanks again for your comment/s.
I found this thread when I googled " Puddin Tane". My grandmother used to say "What's your name? Pudding Tane. What's your other? Bread and Butter. Where do you live? In a tin. What's your number? Cucumber"
ReplyDeleteI've always wondered where that came from and just thought my grandma was being silly.
Thanks for your comment Krystal Jones.
DeleteNow you know that grandmas can be silly and hip to the jive :o)
my grandmother (b. 1896) used to recite it with much delight apparently the kids on the playground liked it because of its sass. then she added "whats your name, John Brown, ask me again and I'll knock you down." kids love this playground speak. the question is how far back in time can it be traced? I have read that "ring around the rosy....ashes ashes .. " refers to the black plague and yet we were still saying it when I was a school boy.
ReplyDeleteChristopher Hardy thanks for sharing that example of "What's your name". That's one I hadn't heard or read before.
DeleteRegarding your comment about "Ring Around The Rosey", I used to below to the online folk music forum Mudcat and commenters repeatedly debunked the theory that that children's game had anything to do with the plague*, but that theory is still widely held.
*https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=49672#751536 Origins: Ring around the Rosy / Rosey
Funny, I remember my Nana and Mom doing the rhyme with me as follows ..
ReplyDeleteWhat’s your name?
John MacLean.
Where do you live?
Down the lane.
What’s your number?
Cucumber.
What do you do?
Eat stew.
My Nana was born in 1904 and my mom in 1929, myself in 1967 and am teaching my kiddo born in 2010 the same! He loves it! We do a q & a with it and put a jinx game twist on it for many laughs...
Cat Martin, thanks for sharing your family's version of "What's My Name" with us and thanks for including demographics.
DeleteHappy Holidays!!
My Papoo definitely said
ReplyDelete"What's your name? Puddin' Tane. Ask me again and I'll tell you the same"
Apalachicola, Florida is where he grew up. Born 1918.
Mary Alice, thanks for sharing your Papoo's version of "What's your name?". Thanks also for including demographic information.
DeleteBtw, does Papoo mean grandfather? What language/culture is that?
Mary Alice responded to my question my writing "Greek!".
DeleteThanks.
My apology for being so quick to delete that comment because I thought it was spam.
Best wishes!
I found this on another amateur linguistics site. It is somewhat skewed to the sexualized versions of the phrase trigger by an earlier question about the Rap song also briefly discussed here which raises interesting questions about origins and side branches of this phrase, particularly in pre 1800s England. It also suggests that 'Pudd' has a direct lineage to 'Pudding' as hypothesized in a comment above. The most interesting part is the well documented very early use of 'pudding tame', a burglar's method to quiet (or kill) a home's dog. It makes sense that the ryhme might refer to a criminal not wanting to give his real name and parenthetically circles back to the Gary Larson cartoon mentioned above. I agree that the more recent American usage appears to be as an innocent, if slightly contrarian, child hood ryhme given legs by the continued use by adults passing it on to family members, as seen in many citations above.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7
drramdo@zoominternet.net Butler PA
Anonymous, thanks for sharing information in that wordwizard page.
DeleteUnfortunately, people need to have a username and password to access that page.
As an aside, greetings from Western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh: East Liberty neighborhood)!
I heard "What's your name? Puddin' Tane, ask me again and I'll tell you the same" from my mother in the 1940's. We lived in North Central West Virginia.
ReplyDeleteJerry B
Thanks, Anonymous for sharing that information, including demographics.
DeleteThat's one of the earliest examples of "Puddin' Tane" that I've come across.
Best wishes!
Here’s a limerick for you that my Grandmother who was born in the Middle1800’s taught me: “Yellow Belly, Yellow Belly, Run Take A Swim, Jump Out By Golly , When The Tide Comes In!”
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, thanks for sharing that rhyme for the folkloric record.
DeleteMy guess is that it was used as a taunt which was either directed at people who were considered cowards or Asians, or both.
For those reasons, I hope it isn't revived nowadays or in the future.
I fondly remember 3 from my Mother early 1960s. Puddin Tame or Tane (not sure) - ask me again I will tell you the same. John Brown ask me again and I'll knock you down. There was a 3rd one but I can't remember it. I do recall seeing it in the Great Gatsy starring Alan Ladd. Driving me nuts so I ordered the movie from Amazon and I will update this post after I watch the movie. We spent a lot of time with these and I always loved it. Simple times and pleasures. (07/14/22).
ReplyDeleteBy the way, she was originally from eastern Tennessee but moved to Joplin Missouri where I was born.
DeleteAnonymous, thanks for sharing your memories of "Puddin Tane" and the John Brown rhyming saying.
DeleteAnd thanks for including demographic information (who, when, and where you first heard them.
I appreciate it!
I was wrong! Not the Great Gatsby. I'm thinking it was perhaps the Blue Dahlia. I love Alan Ladd fortunately, so another movie in my future soon.
DeleteOkay, Anonymous. I'm not familiar with the Blue Dahlia movie so don't know if the "Puddin Tane" rhyme with the lines "John Brown/ ask me again and I'll knock you down" are in that movie.
DeletePlease give us an update if you find out that's the right movie.
Best wishes.
Btw, the "John Brown" version is included as a note in this pancocojams post as part of Comment #5 (from the "Puddin Tane" discussion thread on the Mudcat folk music forum.
DeleteAnonymous, thanks again. Your comment caused me to do some more online searching for information about this rhyme and I added an update in the post itself.
Delete:o)
A variation i haven’t seen here yet but that i grew up with (maine in the 90s) went like
ReplyDeleteWhats your name/puddin tane
Where do you live/down the lane
Whatcha eating/piece if chocolate
Where’d ya get it/doggie dropped it
Number/cucumber was in the mix, too.
Anonymous, thanks for sharing that version of "Puddin Tane" with demographic information.
DeleteI haven't come across the chocolate/dropped it version before, but I have heard the number/cucumber one.
Best wishes!
Growing up in the early sixties in Lancashire we used to chant. What's your name .Alec Compain.Where d'ya live.Down the drain.What's yer number.Cuecumber. I've tried to find out if Alec Compain was a real person,without success.
ReplyDeleteSomeone mentioned the rhyme about Thunderbird. My father and his 2 brothers (born in the late 1930s and grew up in Wakefield Massachusetts - in the Bostone area) used to say the following rhyme:
ReplyDeleteWhat's the word? Thunderbird!
What's the price? Sixty twice!
I never heard any more of there was more.
Anonymous, thanks for sharing your memories of that rhyme. I grew up in the 1950s in Atlantic City, New Jersey and vaguely remember "Thunderbird" being the brand name or nickname for some cheap liquor (whiskey?).
DeleteI'm curious if anyone else remembers references to "Thunderbird" liquor and/or references to "Thunderbird" in recreational rhymes. If so, please share those memories.