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Friday, April 29, 2016

What "Black Betty" & "Brown Bess" REALLY Mean

Edited by Azizi Powell

Latest revision: Nov. 10, 2020

This pancocojams post presents information about the early meanings of the term "Black Betty" and the term "Brown Bess". 

The content of this post is presented for cultural, historical, and folkloric purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post.

Addendum #1 to this post provides information about the term "Black Bill".

Addendum #2 to this post provides excerpts from an online article about Black (including Black/White) people in 18th century England. That information augments points that are made about one theory about the origin of the term "Black Betty" as well as the documented origin of the term "Brown Bess."

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This is a companion post to the earlier pancocojams post http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/1930s-versions-of-folk-song-black-betty.html 1930s Versions Of The Folk Song "Black Betty". The content of that post and its comments considers the meaning of the title and lyrics "Black Betty". Sound file, video, and text (lyric only) examples for four 1930s examples of the song "Black Betty" are included in that post.

To a lesser extent, another earlier pancocojams post http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-clean-meaning-of-name-becky-in.html The "Clean" Meaning of The Name "Becky" In African American Culture and some of the comments from that post also considered the same subject.

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EARLY MEANINGS OF "BLACK BETTY"
Pancocjams Editor's Note:
These early meanings of "Betty Betty" aren't the same as the meaning/s of that term in the early 20th century African American originated song "Black Betty" (with its "Bam ba Lam") refrain. Also, the term "Black Betty" may have more than one meaning in the same song. 

Meanings of that term/referent are given below in italics. 

Here are some excerpts about the meaning of "Black Betty" from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Betty
"Black Betty" (Roud 11668) is a 20th-century African-American work song often credited to Huddie "Lead Belly" Ledbetter as the author, though the earliest recordings are not by him. Some sources claim it is one of Lead Belly's many adaptations of earlier folk material...There are numerous recorded versions, including a cappella, folk, and rock arrangements. The best known modern recordings are rock versions by Ram Jam, Tom Jones, and Spiderbait, all of which were hits.

Meaning and origin
Some sources claim the song is derived from an 18th-century marching cadence about a flint-lock musket with a black painted stock; the "bam-ba-lam" lyric referring to the sound of the gunfire. In the British Army from the early 18th century the standard musket had a walnut stock, and was thus known (by at least 1785) as a 'Brown Bess'. [2] There is no citation however for this firearm or a subsequent model being known as a 'Black Betty'.*

Other sources give the meaning of "Black Betty" in the United States (from at least 1827) as a liquor bottle.[3][4] In January 1736, Benjamin Franklin published The Drinker's Dictionary in the Pennsylvania Gazette offering 228 round-about phrases for being drunk. One of those phrases is "He's kiss'd black Betty."[5][6]
"Black Betty" used as an expression for a liquor bottle may ultimately owe its origin to the famous pretty black barmaid who worked at the notorious Tom King's Coffee House in Covent Garden, London, which opened in 1720.**

In Caldwells's Illustrated Combination Centennial Atlas of Washington Co. Pennsylvania of 1876, a short section describes wedding ceremonies and marriage customs, including a wedding tradition where two young men from the bridegroom procession were challenged to run for a bottle of whiskey. This challenge was usually given when the bridegroom party was about a mile from the destination-home where the ceremony was to be had. Upon securing the prize, referred to as "Black Betty", the winner of the race would bring the bottle back to the bridegroom and his party. The whiskey was offered to the bridegroom first and then successively to each of the groom's friends.[7]

David Hackett Fischer, in his book Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America (Oxford University Press, 1989), states that "Black Betty" was a common term for a bottle of whisky in the borderlands of northern England/southern Scotland, and later in the backcountry areas of the eastern United States.

In 1934, John A. and Alan Lomax in their book, American Ballads and Folk Songs described the origins of "Black Betty":
"Black Betty is not another Frankie, nor yet a two-timing woman that a man can moan his blues about. She is the whip that was and is used in some Southern prisons. A convict on the Darrington State Farm in Texas, where, by the way, whipping has been practically discontinued, laughed at Black Betty and mimicked her conversation in the following song." (In the text, the music notation and lyrics follow.)[8]

John Lomax also interviewed blues musician James Baker (better known as "Iron Head") in 1934, almost one year after recording Iron Head performing the first known recording of the song.[9] In the resulting article for Musical Quarterly, titled "'Sinful Songs' of the Southern Negro", Lomax again mentions the nickname of the bullwhip is "Black Betty".[10] Steven Cornelius in his book, Music of the Civil War Era, states in a section concerning folk music following the war's end that "prisoners sang of 'Black Betty', the driver's whip."[11]
In an interview[12] conducted by Alan Lomax with a former prisoner of the Texas penal farm named Doc Reese (aka "Big Head"), Reese stated that the term "Black Betty" was used by prisoners to refer to the "Black Maria" — the penitentiary transfer wagon.

Robert Vells, in Life Flows On in Endless Song: Folk Songs and American History, writes:
"As late as the 1960s, the vehicle that carried men to prison was known as "Black Betty," though the same name may have also been used for the whip that so often was laid on the prisoners' backs, "bam-ba-lam."[13]"
-snip-
Some citations from this Wikipedia article
2. "Brown Bess, n." OED Online. Oxford University Press, March 2016. Web. 29 April 2016.

3. Thorton, An American Glossary, p. 66: "Black Betty. A spirit-bottle. Obs. The N.E.D. has Betty, 1725. They became enamored of blue ruin itself. The hug the "black Betty," that contains it, to their bosoms.—Mass. Spy, Oct. 31 [1827]: from the Berkshire American."

4. Collins, Historical Sketches of Kentucky, p. 163: "Pretty late in the night some one would remind the company that the new couple must stand in need of some refreshment; Black Betty, which was the name of the bottle, was called for and sent up the ladder."

5. Benjamin Franklin; William Temple Franklin; William Duane (1859). Memoirs of Benjamin Franklin, vol. 2. Derby & Jackson. p. 496.

6. From the Writings of Benjamin Franklin in the Pennsylvania Gazette 1736 - 1737

8. Lomax, John A. and Alan Lomax. American Ballads and Folk Songs. (1934; reprint, New York: Dover, 1994), 60-1.
*Thanks frequent pancocojams commenter slam2011 for adding this citation from the Oxford English Dictionary (OED).

**The term "Brown Bess" is also said to have originated as the referent for a prostitute. Read that information found below.

The text (lyrics) for the "Black Betty" song that is referred to the citation given as #8 is included in the earlier pancocojams post http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/1930s-versions-of-folk-song-black-betty.html

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EARLY MEANINGS OF "BROWN BESS"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bess#Origins_of_the_name
"Brown Bess is a nickname of uncertain origin for the British Army's muzzle-loading smoothbore Land Pattern Musket and its derivatives. This musket was used in the era of the expansion of the British Empire and acquired symbolic importance at least as significant as its physical importance. It was in use for over a hundred years with many incremental changes in its design....

A fire in 1841 at the Tower of London destroyed many muskets before they could be converted. Still, the Brown Bess saw service until the middle of the nineteenth century...

Most male citizens of the American Colonies were required by law to own arms and ammunition for militia duty.[1] The Long Land Pattern was a common firearm in use by both sides in the American War of Independence.[2]
In 1808 Sweden purchased significant numbers from the United Kingdom for use in the Finnish War.

During the Musket Wars (1820s–1830s), Māori warriors used Brown Besses, having purchased them from European traders at the time. Some muskets were sold to the Mexican Army, which used them during the Texas Revolution of 1836 and the Mexican-American War of 1846 to 1848. Brown Besses saw service during the Indian rebellion of 1857. Zulu warriors, who had also purchased them from European traders, used them during the Anglo-Zulu War in 1879. One was even used in the Battle of Shiloh in 1862.[3]...

Origins of the name
One hypothesis is that the "Brown Bess" was named after Elizabeth I of England, but this lacks support. It is not believed that this name was used contemporaneously with the early Long Pattern Land musket but that the name arose in late years of the 18th century when the Short Pattern and India Pattern were in wide use.

Early uses of the term include the newspaper, the Connecticut Courant in April 1771, which said "... but if you are afraid of the sea, take Brown Bess on your shoulder and march." This familiar use indicates widespread use of the term by that time. The 1785 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, a contemporary work which defined vernacular and slang terms, contained this entry: "Brown Bess: A soldier's firelock. To hug Brown Bess; to carry a fire-lock, or serve as a private soldier." Military and government records of the time do not use this poetical name but refer to firelocks, flintlock, muskets or by the weapon's model designations.

Popular explanations of the use of the word "Brown" include that it was a reference to either the colour of the walnut stocks, or to the characteristic brown colour that was produced by russeting, an early form of metal treatment...

Similarly, the word "Bess" is commonly held to either derive from the word arquebus or blunderbuss (predecessors of the musket) or to be a reference to Elizabeth I, possibly given to commemorate her death. More plausible is that the term Brown Bess derived from the German words "brawn buss" or "braun buss", meaning "strong gun" or "brown gun"; King George I, who never spoke English and commissioned its use, was from Germany. Bess may be a corruption of bus. The OED has citations for "brown musket" dating back to the early 18th century which refer to the same weapon. Another suggestion is that the name is simply the counterpart to the earlier Brown Bill.*

However, the origin of the name may be much simpler, if vulgar.
In the days of lace-ruffles, perukes, and brocade
Brown Bess was a partner whom none could despise -
An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade,
With a habit of looking men straight in the eyes -
At Blenheim and Ramillies, fops would confess
They were pierced to the heart by the charms of Brown Bess.

— Rudyard Kipling, "Brown Bess," 1911

Kipling's poem most possibly "hits the mark" although he may have based his poem on an earlier but similar "Brown Bess" poem published "Flights of Fancy (No. 16) in 1792. Of course, the name could have been initially inspired by the older term of the "Brown Bill" and perhaps the barrels were originally varnished brown, but it is well known in literary circles that the name "Brown Bess" during the period in question in the 17th to early 19th centuries is not a reference to a color or a weapon but to simply refer to a wanton prostitute [or harlot]. [4] Such a nickname would have been a delight to the soldiers of the era who were from the lower classes of English and then British society.

So far, the earliest use noted [sic] so far of the term "Brown Bess" was in a 1631 publication, John Done's "POLYDORON: OR A Mescellania of Mo∣rall, Philosophicall, and Theologicall Sen∣tences." at Page 152
Things profferd and easie to come by, diminish them∣selves in reputation & price: for how full of pangs and dotage is a wayling lover, for it may bee some browne bes∣sie? But let a beautie fall a weeping, overpressed with the sicke passion; she favours in our thoughts, something Turnbull.
-snip-
Italics added by me to highlight these sentences.

That 1631 publication appears to be a plural reference to "brown bessies". Was "Brown Betty" a general referent for Black/White prostitutes similar to "Black Betty" [which was] used as an expression for a liquor bottle may ultimately owe its origin to the famous pretty black barmaid who worked at the notorious Tom King's Coffee House in Covent Garden, London, which opened in 1720. " Read the citations #5 & #6 for this quote in the "Black Betty" section above.

Read information about Black and mixed race (Black/White) people in 16th - 18th century England in Addendum #2 below.

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ADDENDUM #1: information about "Brown Bill"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon)
"The bill is a polearm weapon used by infantry in medieval Europe. The bill is similar in size, function and appearance to the halberd, differing mainly in the hooked blade form. Other terms for the bill include English bill, bill hook or bill-guisarme...

Derived originally from the agricultural billhook, the bill consisted of a hooked chopping blade with several pointed projections mounted on a staff. The end of the cutting blade curves forward to form a hook, which is the bill's distinguishing characteristic. In addition, the blade almost universally had one pronounced spike straight off the top like a spear head, and also a hook or spike mounted on the 'reverse' side of the blade. There were many types of bill. English bills tended to be relatively short, with broad chopping heads, while Italian bills (ronche) often had very long thrusting points. The English distinguished between several varieties of bill, including the black, brown and forest bills, but the differences between them are currently not fully understood."

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INFORMATION ABOUT BLACK AND MIXED RACE (BLACK/WHITE) PEOPLE IN ENGLAND IN THE 16th - 18th CENTURY
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrival_of_black_immigrants_in_London
16th century
Early in the 16th century Africans arrived in London when Catherine of Aragon travelled to London and brought a group of her African attendants with her[citation needed]. Around the same time African named trumpeters, who served Henry VII and Henry VIII, came to London. When trade lines began to open between London and West Africa. The first record of an African in London was in 1593. His name was Cornelius. London’s residents started to become fearful of the increased black population. At this time Elizabeth I declared that black "Negroes and black Moors" were to be arrested and expelled from her kingdom, although this did not lead to actual legislation.[2][3]

17th–18th centuries
During this era there was a small rise of black people arriving in London. Britain was involved with the tri-continental slave trade between Europe, Africa and the Americas. Black slaves were attendants to sea captains and ex-colonial officials as well as traders, plantation owners and military personnel. This marked growing evidence of the black presence in the northern, eastern and southern areas of London

During this era there was a small rise of black people arriving in London. Britain was involved with the tri-continental slave trade between Europe, Africa and the Americas. Black slaves were attendants to sea captains and ex-colonial officials as well as traders, plantation owners and military personnel. This marked growing evidence of the black presence in the northern, eastern and southern areas of London. There were also small numbers of free slaves and seaman from West Africa and South Asia. Many of these people were forced into beggary due to the lack of jobs and racial discrimination.[4][5] There is evidence that black men and women were occasionally discriminated against when dealing with the law because of their skin colour. In 1737 George Scipio was accused of stealing Anne Godfrey's washing, the case rested entirely on whether or not Scipio was the only black man in Hackney at the time.[6]

Around the 1750s London became the home of many of Blacks, Jews, Irish, Germans, and Huguenots. In 1764 The Gentleman's Magazine reported that there was 'supposed to be near 20,000 Negroe servants' -Evidence of the number of black residents in London has been found through registered burials... During this era Lord Mansfield declared that a slave who fled from his master could not be taken by force or sold abroad. This verdict fueled the numbers of Blacks that escaped slavery, and helped send slavery into decline. During this same period many slave soldiers who fought on the side of the British in the American Revolutionary War arrived in London"...

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From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10863078/Dido-Belle-Britains-first-black-aristocrat.html Dido Belle: Britain’s first black aristocrat By Nisha Lilia Diu 06 Jun 2014
[caption under the title]
"Dido Elizabeth Belle, the illegitimate, mixed race daughter of an 18th-century naval captain and subject of a new film, was a Lady like no other, discovers Nisha Lilia Diu

The amazing thing about Dido Elizabeth Belle is not that she was mixed-race. Who knows how many white men’s children were born to black slave women in the 18th century? It’s not even that her father was a wealthy English aristocrat – there were plenty of titled captains tearing around the Caribbean at that time, capturing French and Dutch schooners during the Seven Years’ War and making off with their sugar, coffee and other (often human) cargo. The extraordinary thing about Dido Belle is that her father, a 24-year-old Navy officer called John Lindsay, took her home to England and asked his extended family to raise her. And they did. They did it in some style, too.

Belle grew up in Kenwood House in north London. It was the palatial weekend retreat of Lindsay’s uncle, the first Earl of Mansfield, set in landscaped gardens with a view of St Paul’s Cathedral six miles away. Mansfield was Lord Chief Justice, and he made a number of landmark rulings on slavery that were among Britain’s first steps towards abolition. Did Belle’s presence in his home have anything to do with it? Plenty of his contemporaries thought so, and they didn’t admire him for it...

We tend to think of mixed-race children as a modern phenomenon, but London has been a cultural melting pot since at least Roman times. There were around 10,000 black people in the city, and many more of mixed parentage by the time Belle was born in 1761. Lindsay seems to have met Belle’s mother, a slave named Maria, on a captured ship in the West Indies. He was a young bachelor, but already much-feted by the newspapers back home for his exploits."...
-snip-
Click https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_(2013_film) for information about the 2013 American movie about Dido Elizabeth Belle.

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Visitor comments are welcome.

Thursday, April 28, 2016

Throwing Shade (Definition And Non-Verbal & Verbal Examples)

Edited by Azizi Powell

This post provides definitions of non-verbal and verbal "throwing shade". A video example of what is said to have been throwing shade (First Lady Michelle Obama rolling her eyes at then Senate Leader John Boehner) is included in this post. Also included in this post is a sub-section of a discussion thread in which a commenter is said to have thrown "world class shade".

The content of this post is presented for etymological, and cultural purposes.
All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publisher of this video on YouTube.

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/03/what-reading-someone-throwing-shade-no.html
for an earlier pancocojams on "reading" and "throwing shade".

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DEFINITION OF THROWING SHADE (Non-Verbal And Verbal)
From http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/277511/what-is-the-correct-usage-of-throwing-shade
"Two other Google Books matches focus on the gay African American subculture from which "throw shade" in its modern sense seems to have arisen. Both articles are well worth reading at fuller length if you're interested in the subject. From Tricia Rose, "An Interview with Willi Ninja," in Microphone Fiends: Youth Music an Youth Culture (1994):
"R: Before we go, define “throw shade" for me.

N: [Laughter] Shade is basically a nonverbal response to verbal or nonverbal abuse. Shade is about using certain mannerisms in battle. If you said something nasty to me, I would just turn to you, and give you a look like: "Bitch please, you're not even worth my time, go on." All with a facial expression and body posture, that's throwing shade. If I want to be a little extra nasty I might throw in a little cough, but not so loud, just a little bit like: "You're making me choke."...

And from E. Patrick Johnson, "SNAP! Culture: a Different Way of Reading" in Text and Performance Quarterly 15(2) (1995), reprinted in Performance: Media and Technology (2003):
"The nonverbal counterpart to reading is called "throwing shade." To throw shade is to ignore a person altogether, even if the person is in immediate proximity. If a shade thrower wishes to acknowledge the presence of the third party, he or she might roll his or her eyes and neck while poking out his or her lips. People throw shade if they do not like a particular person or if that person has dissed them in the past. The effect of throwing shade in this manner is also a type of dissing, because it is considered disrespectful not to acknowledge someone's presence. In the playful mode, however, a person may throw shade at a person with whom he or she is a best friend."
-snip-
If I correctly understand that article, it is saying that originally Black and Latino drag queens used "throwing shade" to mean giving non-verbal insults. However, their use of the term "shade" (and other folks' use of that term) changed over time to what Dorian Corey said was making a "more artfully executed, more dependent on constructing a veiled (or not-so-veiled) insult rather than relying on obvious crudities and innuendo. Throwing shade requires wielding your words like a rapier rather than a cudgel." [quote from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/movies/videos/parisisburningrhowe_a0b315.htm ‘Paris Is Burning’ (R), By Desson Howe
Washington Post Staff Writer, August 09, 1991]
-snip-
It seems to me that at this time (2016) making an "artfully executed [verbal] insult" is still the usual definition of "throwing shade". But "throwing shade" can also still be non-verbal. Take, for instance, this 2013 example in which (rightly or wrongly" Michelle Obama

Watch Michelle Obama Throw World Historical Shade at John Boehner



Mike Roda, Published on Jan 21, 2013
-snip-
Here's a comment from that video's discussion thread:
Cristina Santamaría, 2015
"flawless shade right there"

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Here's an excerpt of an article about throwing shade
From http://www.gurl.com/2015/03/23/flawless-examples-of-celebrities-throwing-shade-twitter-instagram-feuds/ The 22 Most Flawless Examples Of Celebrities Throwing Shade
Monday, March 23, 2015 by Jessica Booth
"One of my favorite things about social media is watching people get angry about something, then turn around and throw shade at someone in a fascinatingly epic way. Before we get any further, for those of you who don’t know the ins and outs of shade throwing, let’s check out the Urban Dictionary definition for throwing shade:

“To talk trash about a friend or acquaintance, to publicly denounce or disrespect. When throwing shade it’s immediately obvious to on-lookers that the thrower, and not the throwee, is the bitcy, uncool one”

Throwing shade can be done with an epic side-eye, by picking out flaws, or it can be done indirectly – sort of like sub-tweeting. The most flawless shade throwing moments are often the indirect ones, when you’re not sure if the person really did the shade throwing or not. It’s fun to guess! And even though celebrities usually don’t like to air their dirty laundry, many of them are still guilty of doing massive amounts of shade throwing.

The results are almost always amusing for the rest of us – except for some cases, which are just pretty offensive and will literally make you cringe."...
-snip-
Here's an example of verbal shade from that same article:

"Even Madeline Albright got in on the fun!
[tweet] - 23 Oct. 14
"Conan O'Brien ✔ ‎@ConanOBrien
I picked out my Halloween costume. I’m going as “Slutty Madeleine Albright.”

Madeleine Albright ✔ ‎@madeleine
.@ConanOBrien I'm considering going as hunky Conan O'Brien - but that might be too far fetched."
4:26 PM 23 Oct. 2014
-snip-
Here's a tweet about that exchange:
"Tony AielloVerified account
‏@AielloTV
. @madeleine @ConanOBrien call 911 - tall red haired man down - speared by rapier-like wit
2:47 PM - 23 Oct 2014" https://twitter.com/AielloTV/status/525403056897527808

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A SUB-SET OF A DISCUSSION THREAD IN WHICH A BLOGGER IS SAID TO HAVE THROWN "WORLD CLASS SHADE"
From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-brown/white-commentary-on-lemonade_b_9780056.html White Commentary on ‘Lemonade’: No One Asked Us
04/27/2016 12:17 pm ET | Updated 20 hours ago Alex Brown
Note:
All of these comments were retrieved on 4/28/2016 at about 2 PM. I'm leaving the time stamps and other notations with each comment to show how that portion of that discussion thread flowed and what other bloggers thought about each comment.

I believe that the number after "Like . Reply" is the number of participants in that discussion who replied that they "liked" that particular comment.

I've assigned numbers to those comments for referencing purposes only.

1. Maui Strife · Universidad Autónoma de Tamaulipas
"its music,it doesnt matter the race, anyone can study and disect a song music in universal, because if it isnt,then why is she singing pop? and i dont want black woman to take over the world,in 5 years we would be living in huts just like with feminism."
Like · Reply · 1 · 22 hrs

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2. Irene Lartey
"What?"
Like · Reply · 42 · 22 hrs

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3. Irene Lartey
"I've been trying to dissect this comment for about 7 minutes and I still don't get it. So I'm just going to write something random like the poster above.

The mailbox is universal. It will take over the world. Purple."
Like · Reply · 143 · 22 hrs

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4. Jack Manley · Metadata QC Coordinator at In Demand
"Irene Lartey I may not be able to understand Lemonade due to the fact that it isn't, nor should it be, intended for me, but I do understand world-class shade. You're awesome"
Like · Reply · 71 · 22 hrs

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5. Lynnette Beth Mcfadzen · Secretary, Board of Directors at BiNet USA
"Irene Lartey lol..what? lol"
Like · Reply · 1 · 21 hrs

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6. Tanya Mlcm
"Irene Lartey ROFL"
Like · Reply · 8 · 21 hrs

**
7. Terrell Anderson · CEO/Founder/Owner at Get Versed
"Irene Lartey lmaaoooooooooooooooooo"
Like · Reply · 7 · 21 hrs

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8. Coco Ochwada
"Irene Lartey OMG!!!! I'm glad Prince's decades of shade lessons have paid off for the black community. *dying*."
Like · Reply · 10 · 21 hrs

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9. Craig Webster · Toronto, Ontario
"Feminism's living in huts??"
Like · Reply · 3 · 21 hrs

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Retonia Knott Smith
"Irene Lartey my thoughts exactly, LMAO."
Like · Reply · 4 · 20 hrs

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10. Sy Gruza
"Irene Lartey I guess you're comprehension-challenged. You know exactly what the poster means. address substance and bag the personal insults."
Like · Reply · 20 hrs

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11. Dee Balt
"DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!!!!"
Like · Reply · 3 · 20 hrs

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12. Irene Lartey
"When there is substance, Sy Garza, I will happy to address.

Just come get me when it occurs. I'll be in my hut."
Like · Reply · 58 · 20 hrs

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13. Joyce Konrad · Auburn, Massachusetts
"Irene Lartey ❤"
Like · Reply · 5 · 19 hrs

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14. Jarlisa Corbett
"Irene Lartey be my friend"
Like · Reply · 5 · 19 hrs

**
15. Elissa Malaikah · Bronx, New York
"Irene Lartey i hate'chu! Thanks for making me laugh all the way home."
Like · Reply · 4 · 18 hrs

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16. Monique Barbour · Massage Therapist at Licensed Certified Massage Therapist
"What?!"
Like · Reply · 3 · 17 hrs

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17. Tee Artice
"Irene Lartey...don't even try to comprehend it because you can't make sense out of something that's just not sensible. SMH. Chalk it up to the attitude of entitlement that has always been instilled for centuries."
Like · Reply · 5 · 15 hrs · Edited

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18. Danielle Terry
"Hahaha..you gave me a good laugh amongst all the serious discussion...thanks"
Like · Reply · 4 · 14 hrs

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19. Audrey Nelson · Minnesota State University, Mankato
"Irene Lartey... 2 SNAPS GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!!!!! Sent from my Hutt.. Lmao"
Like · Reply · 6 · 13 hrs
-snip-
That comment is the end of that comment sub-set as of this time.

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Visitor comments are welcome.

Two Examples Of Malvina Reynold's Protest Song "It Isn't Nice"

Edited by Azizi Powell

This post showcases two examples of Anglo American Malvina Reynolds' protest song "It Isn't Nice". Information about Malvina Reynolds is given in this post along with song lyrics and three examples of that song. Selected examples from YouTube comments threads for this song are also included in this post.

This post also provides information about African American Civil Rights activist Medgar Evers who is mentioned in the song "It Isn't Nice" as well as information about the term "Mister Charlie" which is also mentioned in that song.

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural, etymological, inspirational, and aesthetic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Malvina Reynolds and Medgar Evers for their lifes' legacies. Thanks to all those who are featured in these YouTube examples, and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post. In addition, thanks to the publishers of these examples on YouTube.

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INFORMATION ABOUT MALVINA REYNOLDS
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvina_Reynolds
"Malvina Reynolds (August 23, 1900 – March 17, 1978) was an American folk/blues singer-songwriter and political activist, best known for her song-writing...

Malvina Milder was born in San Francisco to David and Abagail Milder, Jewish and socialist immigrants, who opposed involvement in World War I.

She married William ("Bud") Reynolds, a carpenter and labor organizer, in 1934. They had one child, Nancy Reynolds Schimmel (a songwriter and performer in her own right), in 1935. Malvina earned her Bachelor of Arts and Master of Arts in English from the University of California, Berkeley, and later earned a doctorate there, finishing her dissertation in 1938.

Music career
Though she played violin in a dance band in her twenties, she began her songwriting career late in life. She was in her late 40s when she met Earl Robinson, Pete Seeger, and other folk singers and songwriters. She returned to school at UC Berkeley, where she studied music theory. She went on to write several popular songs, including "Little Boxes" (1962), recorded by Pete Seeger and others, "What Have They Done to the Rain" (1962), recorded by The Searchers, The Seekers, Marianne Faithfull, Melanie Safka and Joan Baez (about nuclear fallout), "It Isn't Nice" (a civil rights anthem), "Turn Around" (1959) (about children growing up, later sung by Harry Belafonte)”...
-snip-
For the record (no pun intended), Malvina Reynolds was a White American.

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INFORMATION ABOUT MEDGAR EVERS
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers
"Medgar Wiley Evers (July 2, 1925 – June 12, 1963) was an African American civil rights activist from Mississippi who worked to overturn segregation at the University of Mississippi and gain social justice and voting rights. A World War II veteran and college graduate, he became active in the Civil Rights Movement in the 1950s. He became a field secretary for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). Following the 1954 ruling of the United States Supreme Court in Brown v. Board of Education that segregated public schools were unconstitutional, Evers worked to gain admission for African Americans to the state-supported public University of Mississippi. He also worked on voting rights and registration, economic opportunity, access to public facilities, and other changes in the segregated society.

Evers was assassinated by Byron De La Beckwith, a member of the White Citizens' Council, a group formed in 1954 to resist integration of schools and civil rights activity... His murder and the resulting trials inspired civil rights protests, as well as numerous works of art, music, and film. All-white juries failed to reach verdicts in n the first two trials of Beckwith. He was convicted in the new state trial in 1994, based on new evidence."...

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WHAT "MISTER CHARLIE" AND "MISS ANN" MEAN IN VERNACULAR AMERICAN CULTURE
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Charlie
Mister Charlie is a pejorative expression used within the African-American community to refer to an imperious white man. The expression suggests that whites are generic or interchangeable.[1] Occasionally, it refers to a black man who is arrogant and perceived as "acting white".

The expression is sometimes written as "Mr. Charlie," "Mister Charley," or other variations.[2]
The expression was in use during the 19th century, much like the female equivalent, Miss Ann. Miss Ann was an expression used among slaves to refer to the woman of the house, usually the wife of the slave owner, and any other white woman that the slaves had to serve. Mister Charlie was the slave owner, or any other white man exploiting, or being condescending towards, slaves.[3]

Cassell's Dictionary of Slang (2005) argues that in the 1920s, "Mister Charlie" meant "any white man," but in the 1970s evolved to mean "the man in power."[4]

In the 1960s the phrase was associated with the Civil Rights movement in the United States and became "nationally familiar."[5] It appeared in the title of James Baldwin's play Blues for Mister Charlie (1964) and in the third verse of Malvina Reynolds's protest song "It Isn't Nice" (1967):
We have tried negotiations / And the three-man picket line, / Mr. Charlie didn't see us / And he might as well be blind. / Now our new ways aren't nice / When we deal with men of ice, / But if that is Freedom's price, / We don't mind.[6]

The expression has fallen out of use by young African-Americans today.[7]"
-snip-
Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-clean-meaning-of-name-becky-in.html for a loosely related pancocojams post on the vernacular referent "Becky" which refers to White women in general or a sub-set of White women. That post mentions the earlier use of "Miss Ann".

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LYRICS - IT ISN'T NICE
(Malvina Reynolds)

John Clark9 months ago
It isn't nice to block the doorway,
It isn't nice to go to jail,
There are nicer ways to do it,
But the nice ways always fail.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
You told us once, you told us twice,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.

It isn't nice to carry banners
Or to sit in on the floor,
Or to shout our cry of Freedom
At the hotel and the store.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
You told us once, you told us twice,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.

We have tried negotiations
And the three-man picket line,
Mr. Charlie didn't see us
And he might as well be blind.
Now our new ways aren't nice
When we deal with men of ice,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.

How about those years of lynchings
And the shot in Evers' back?
Did you say it wasn't proper,
Did you stand upon the track?
You were quiet just like mice,
Now you say we aren't nice,
And if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.

It isn't nice to block the doorway,
It isn't nice to go to jail,
There are nicer ways to do it
But the nice ways always fail.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
But thanks for your advice,
Cause if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.

Source: comment by John Clark (2015) in the discussion thread for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvC4xq32AX8 (given below as Example #1)

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FEATURED EXAMPLES
Example #1: Malvina Reynolds - It Isn't nice



Kevin Jordan Uploaded on Apr 19, 2009
-snip-
Selected comments from that sound file's discussion thread:
2009
stickynyki
"singing somber words without a somber tone....damn great 'stuff'.
thanks for posting this!!"

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2011
Susanna J. Sturgis
"Just came looking for "It Isn't Nice" because it's so totally appropriate for a struggle that's going on where I live. Those in power are taking us to task for our "unwarranted accusations" and our "extremely strong opinions and words." Malvina, you had it right in the 1960s and you've got it right now."

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BuddhaBebop
"It's so weird she's encouraging democracy and revolution for the benefit of all the people while all the time sounding like a grandmother."

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121ramondo
"Ive never heard of this woman, got here because of the 02 advert. I love her aging emotional voice, makes me think of her as a gentle, ageing granny activist"

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mindofalbion
"this is ace!

But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind."
-snip-
Although this is an aside, I added this comment because of the "this is ace!" sentence. That's something my mother used to say. It means the same thing as "That's great", but I rarely have heard or seen anyone use that saying. It occurs to me that I have used and heard the related word "aced" as in "I aced that exam" (I got an A in that exam.) I guess the saying "This is ace" comes from playing cards.

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2012
BigMapleFishThing
"This is important work that many grandmas do! Grandmothers (and mamas, and aunties and great-grandmas) all over the world organize for justice, peace and freedom."

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Susanna J. Sturgis
"Sending this out to George Will, who says that gay men and lesbians aren't being "neighborly" or "nice" when we fight for equal rights."

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Reply
Oom Yaaqub [2013]
"comparing something as stupid as gay marriage to the civil rights movement is disgusting. "

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Reply
Thøger Emil Rivera-Thorsen [2014]
"+Oom Yaaqub No, it is really very appropriate. And you prove it is necessary."
-snip-
Here's a comment about the song "It isn't Nice" from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4eNH1DEI_E "It Isn't Nice by Malvina Reynolds, sung by Heather Lev"
Steve Suffet, 2007
"OMG! The ghost of Malvina Reynolds has taken possession of your soul. She wrote "It Isn't Nice" about the civil rights movement, but it speaks of the increasing militancy of many struggles. You have captured the essence folk music at its best: that exquisite balance between continuity and change, between the past and the present in an unbroken chain that reaches back decades. even centuries, and which will thus continue forward. And you have added a beautiful voice to the tradition. Bravo!"

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Example #2: It Isn't Nice



Jacob Clary Uploaded on Nov 11, 2009

Barbara Dane and the Chambers Brothers - It Isn't Nice.
-snip-
Selected comments from this sound file's discussion thread:
2009
geezeruser
"beautiful voices, beautiful message"

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nikkizthe1
"awesome harmony by some fabulous singers"

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2010
Michael Schaeffer
"This is a great version, of a "peoples classic', Do people still remeber Medgar Evers? I do, and I hope you never forget either. I wonder if people still sing this song at rallies? I've bee told it isn't nice to sing at rallies anymore."
-snip-
My response to Michael Schaeffer question about singing at rallies is that it's very rare for people to sing at rallies. Instead, they listen to performers sing. I think that unfortunately reflects how singing is regarded in the USA now.

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2016
Matthew Willner
"Sam Cooke like a motherfu&&er*"
-snip-
*That word is fully spelled out in that comment. I take it that that comment means that this version sounds like how Sam Cooke would have sung it.

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Reply
Barbara Dane
"+Matthew Willner You got it! I took Malvina's words and made my own SC-inspired tune to take with me to sing at the Freedom Schools of Mississippi in 1964... The Brothers did a great job of harmonizing too!"
-snip-
Since it is capitalized, I assume that "The Brothers" in Barbara Dane's last sentence refers to The Chambers Brothers and isn't a general referent for Black men (as in the brothers at the Freedom Schools of Mississippi in 1064).

Here's some information about Freedom Schools of Mississippi in 1964:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Schools
"Freedom Schools were temporary, alternative free schools for African Americans mostly in the South. They were originally part of a nationwide effort during the Civil Rights Movement to organize African Americans to achieve social, political and economic equality in the United States. The most prominent example of Freedom Schools was in Mississippi during the summer of 1964.

Origins
Despite the Supreme Court's ruling of 1954 in the Brown v. Board of Education case striking down segregated school systems, in the mid-1960s Mississippi still maintained separate and unequal white and "colored" school systems. On average, the state spent $81.66 to educate a white student compared to only $21.77 for a black child.[1] Mississippi was one of only two states in the union that did not have a mandatory education law and many children in rural areas were sent to work in the fields and received little education at all. Even the curriculum was different for white and black. As a typical example, the white school board of Bolivar County mandated that "Neither foreign languages nor civics shall be taught in Negro schools. Nor shall American history from 1860 to 1875 be taught."[2]

In late 1963, Charles Cobb,[3] a Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) activist, proposed the organization sponsor a network of Freedom Schools. The concept of Freedom Schools had been utilized by educators and activists prior to the summer of 1964 in Boston, New York, and Prince Edward County, Virginia, where public schools were closed in reaction to the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision or, in the case of Boston, as acts of protest against discriminatory school conditions.[4]"...

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Visitor comments are welcome.

Wednesday, April 27, 2016

1930s Versions Of The Folk Song "Black Betty"

Edited by Azizi Powell

This post provides three 1930s sound file examples & lyrics of the African American folk song "Black Betty". Selected comments from the discussion thread of the example given as Version #2 are also included in this post.

The Addendum to this post also includes lyrics of another early example of "Black Betty". That example is from American Ballads and Folk Songs by John Lomax (originally published: January 1, 1934) [update April 28, 2016]

The content of this post is published for folkloric, cultural, entertainment, and aesthetic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to the composer/s of the song "Black Betty", thanks to all those whose recordings are included in this post, and thanks to all those who are quoted in this post. Thanks also to the publishers of these sound files and the transcribers of these lyrics.

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/what-black-betty-brown-bess-really-mean.html for a pancocojams post that provides information about the meanings of the terms "Black Betty" and "Brown Bess".

The information that is included in that post was partly gleaned from information found in this post and from comments to this post. Special hat tip to commenter slam 2011!

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SEVERAL VERSIONS OF "BLACK BETTY"
These YouTube versions of given in chronological order based on their posting date.

Version #1: black betty (1939)



RosieKeepinthepromis, Uploaded on Apr 21, 2009
"I got this recording from the Library of Congress call number AFC 1939/001 2643b2.

It's the infamous song Black Betty. This wikipedia article has some interesting info about this song http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Betty

This particular recording was done in 1939, Rev Mose 'Clear Rock' Platt is singing.
It was recorded in Texas (Taylor, Williamson County) by John and Ruby Lomax

The photograph is from the Library of Congress as well, call number LOT 7414-F, no. N11.
It has a handwritten note on the back"Moses Platt (Clear Rock) Sugarland, Tex. June 1934.", and the photographer is listed as John Lomax.

I am really interested in early recordings of this song. If you know of any recordings of Black Betty that were recorded 1939 or earler please let me know.

Also due to the quality of the recording I have some trouble making out the lyrics/conversation.
If you'd like to take a try at transcribing I'd love to see what you are hearing.

BlindBoyBlue has helped with some transcription (the whoa Black Betty isn't written because...well that's obvious):

Black Bettys in the bottom x2
just chewin' on the timber

Black Betty had a baby x2
well the thing went crazy
just drinkin' river water

Just jumpin' to a number x2

Just stewin' in the bottom
Just stewin' in the bottle

He then gets interupted and asked "who's this Black Betty?" to which he replies "Black Betty was an old n***** woman who...".

Can anyone else out there help make out that conversation at the end?"

[This is the end of that sound file's description.]
-snip-
That abbreviated form of the n word (with asterisks) was given in the sound file's review.

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Version #2: Black Betty- Leadbelly



songs1994, Published on Mar 3, 2009
-snip-
The comments below are from the discussion thread for the sound file that was originally embedded in this post. That sound file which was published by RagtimeDorianHenry, on Apr 15, 2009, is not longer available.
-snip-
Here are some comments from this sound file's discussion thread.
Many of these commenters shared different theories about what (or who) Black Betty was.

These comments are given in relative chronological order based on the year that they were posted. However, they may not be in consecutive order. I assigned numbers for referencing purposes only.

By reading online sources such as Wikipedia (though that source may not be all that reliable), I've learned that there have been different meanings for the term "Black Betty". It occurs to me that the early meanings of the term "Black Betty" may have nothing whatsoever to do with "Black Betty" folk song (or folk songs). Furthermore, it's possible that the term "Black Betty" may have more than one meaning within the same song.

1. Mich, 2010
"@putz1113 Southerners have been calling whisky Black Betty since they came over from the old country."

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2. uckybear3822, 2010
"@MonyVibescu1919 Black betty referes to a flintlock musket. In the US, black betty was a common term for a liquor bottle. In January 1736, Benjamin Franklin published The Drinker's Dictionary in the Pennsylvania Gazette offering 228 round-about phrases for being drunk. One of those phrases is "He's kiss'd black Betty''."

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3. westernjen, 2010
"Encore Comment: Part of this tells something that doesn't seem to have much to do with whips or wagons or anything like that. It has to do with a real child, who was blind and ran wild, but wasn't none of his doing ... or so he claims. Sound familiar?"

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4. RippvonShar, 2010
" "In 1976, the group Ram Jam scored a hit record with a hard-rock version of the obscure 1930's Leadbelly blues tune, "Black Betty". At the time, this recording was deemed by the NAACP and C.O.R.E as "insulting black women", and both groups called for a boycott of the song. The situation: Ram Jam was a white group, but the composer (Leadbelly) was a black man. One thing is for sure - Ram Jam's version kicks some serious butt, and it's a "classic rock" staple." "

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5. NocturniaTX, 2010
[written in response to a commenter who wrote that Lead Belly recorded "Black Betty" first.]
"@ucwicket420 Incorrect.
Baker was the original recording. I didn't say he went into a recording studio.
Field recordings by musicologists are *not* uncommon. John and Alan Lomax recorded Baker in at a work (prison) farm in Sugaland, TX (I grew up near Sugarland) in 1933 performing "Black Betty" a capella while Baker was a prisoner. The Lomax recordings are available through the Library of Congress.

Lead Belly's version was recorded in 1936."

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6. tubemagpie, 2011
"To me this doesn't sound at all like a Blues.... yes it's Black/African American and sounds like a work song It has a rhythm and the clapping imposes a beat. Listen to it again and close your eyes . Imagine using a hoe in a field or perhaps a hammer in a forge(dubious).
The great thing about Leadbelly for me is the way he links the late 19th and the 20th centuries... many of his songs will have come from his early days (true folk songs) while many later were influenced by other trends."

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7. mixmastermeeks, 2011
"@DudeXMyster There realy isn't an "original" writer of this song. Most of the ones Leadbelly sang are old folk songs. It would kinda be like trying to figure out who wrote twinkle twinkle little star. Although there are a lot of songs that he recorded before anyone else. House of the Rising Sun, Black Betty, Midnight speical......ect."

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8. krzykanuk3, 2011
"FYI black betty is a whip"

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9. Epeolatry1, 2011
"@kimzilla No, a Black Betty is an old type of musket."

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10. Per Rock, 2011
"It is supposed to be a whip for slaves that was nicknamed "black betty" according to Wikpedia. I thought is was about a black lady but it seems not to be so this time...well. well"

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11. N0band, 2011
"There is a time signature here, actually: 8/8. Leadbelly claps his hand on the sixth beat, leaving out only one clap ("Jump steady, Black Betty") to enter the verse. The song is an old Afro-American work/slave-song, the topic being the whip in the supervisor's hands (nicknamed Black Betty). The lead singer sang the verses while the rest of the group joined in at the chorus. The clap signifies the fall of the pick, hammer or shovel that the group was using so that the work would proceed in unison"

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12. Reply
david tillman, 2011
"@N0band so your saying "black betty" is a whip, that means the whip had a baby and the damn thing went crazy... thanks for the laugh."

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13. Jae Shep, 2011
"it could've been about a whip, a 17th-18th century musket, a woman, a pentitentary wagon. Buts its very debatable. clearly one of those songs thats meaning has changed over time. but no one is really "wrong" about what it means"

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14. IamDottieDandridge, 2011
"@tomterrific456 he is saying jump steady black betty its an old black saying our elders still say it here in the South"

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15. MacBratt, 2011
"@apugarcia Lead Belly mixes up the lyrics, he doesn't remember the song - again, I'm a big Lead Belly fan, I researched where he got it from. The oldest recorded version is by James "Iron Head" Baker
That version is a lot better, backing vocals and lyrics that do make sense. I bet Huddie heard it in prison and added it to his repertoir to impress Lomax."

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16. ShottyIZ, 2012
"This was a prison song back in 1933 by James iron head Baker and Group, at least its the first known recording. Also if no ones knows, (in this song) Its referring to a whip that the guards used to punish convicts, its also known to be a nick name for a bottle a whiskey which Benjamin Franklin came up with when he made his drunk dictionary back in the 1700's... Come on kids keep up!"

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17. ToWatchMusic, 2012
"black betty is a gun not a woman."

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18. Baddaby, 2012
No one really knows what black betty is about. And I doubt we'll ever find out unless black belly himself says it. From his grave.

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19. gunslinginnunz69, 2012
just saying but ur comment is a disgrace to the song considering the song is about a black slave being raped by her owner and having a blue-eyed child

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20. kyrastube, 2012
"this is why I love internet. I could have gone through lifr thinking this was written by ram jam.
its amazing. I dont think its the best old blues-song Ive ever heard, but it might grow on me. I have, either way, big respect for all these old blues-singers."

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21. Chris Moos, 2014
"Thanks for all your posts, RDH. I'll chime in with this: all of us can enjoy music no matter where it comes from. But you have to understand the African-Americans who originated this style have paid a much higher price for the emotions we hear than the white artists.

To ignore the historical context is to miss a lot that's there in the music."
-snip-
"RDH" is RagtimeDorianHenry, the publisher of this sound file on YouTube.

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22. CPD0123a, 2014
"+Jamie Warrior Warlord McCallum +ValGray 1015 +Robert Parker McCollum According to the documentary on Leadbelly by the Smithsonian Channel, it's a stone-cutting song from his time in prison. The bam-a-lam part with the clap is when you hit the stone with your sledge. The rest is to keep time among the group while you ready your next swing. It's not really slavery, it's old-style hard time on a prison chain gang. (Bam-a-lam even sounds like the ring of men hitting it with their sledge hammers in a row when you think about it)"

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23. Karl Lafollette, 2014
"This song is about rape white man raping black women back in the day and she gets knocked up with white mans kid , she has the baby and there comes out a blond out her ? am i missing something ?"

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24. dwk67, 2014
"Ram Jam's version of this used to get played at sports arenas in the south awhile back but they stopped because of accusations of racism because of the mention of Betty being black. Those white boys in Ram Jam did a smokin' cover version in 1977 of this song that is a tribute to the black blues legend who wrote it, and not racist whatsoever. Political correctness is so asinine."

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25. Michael Shapiro, 2014
"I took a music class in college where we listened to this song, and our professor told us that was the sound of leadbelly chopping wood. Maybe he's wrong or maybe he's right, who cares haha."

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26. Baddaby, 2014
"Have you ever chopped wood? That sounds alot more like a man slapping his own thigh than chopping wood."

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27. Michael Shapiro, 2014
"Or perhaps leadbelly was trying to emulate the sound of chopping wood/laboring while singing"

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28. elliott nunez, 2015
"First recorded in the field by John and Alan Lomax in 1933. Also performed A Capella by convict James Baker and group at Central State Farm Sugarland Texas.Leadbelly recorded it later 1939 I believe..Lead Belly and the Lomax boys were longtime associates....In prison perhaps?"

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29. Reply
Cool Breeze, 2015
"Thanks for the info. It appears that James "Iron Head" Baker was the first person to sing it acapella and have it recorded by the Lomaxes. The recording is also on YouTube."

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30. Hans Josef, 2016
"+elliott nunez Yeah, and before it was recorded it was sung by sharecroppers around the turn of the century, whose parents taught it to them. "

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31. Reply
Jennifer Thomas, 2016
"+elliott nunez Lomax Father and Son were traveling the south looking for more songs to add to their collection of music. They came across him in their travels. You are right with the acapella of James Baker and friends. By that time Lead Belly was out of jail. When he made his friendship with the Lomax's he went to visit prisons with them looking for songs to record for them...when he ran out of his own of course."

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32. David Little, 2015
"Well actually lead belly's version of black betty is not an original song by any means, his is a version of a much earlier folk song which is apparently adapted from a marching tune used by british soldiers ( & possibly others??? ) who called their muskets black bettie's because they had black painted stocks....who knew ;-)"

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33. Reply
Jen Wen, 2015
"+David Little everybody quotes the same quotes from wikipedia.(which we all know isnt a reliable source.) but always seem to overlook the facts that James Baker and his partner was the first to do it, Leadbelly was the 2nd. Waaaaaay before the talk of it being about a musket and ball, is was about a bull whip, used to whip prisoners."

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34. Reply
David Little, 2015
+Jen Wen Well that is why I used the term "apparently" as I was opening a discussion on alternative possibilities to the origin of the music & reinforced it by subsequently stating that I was "philosophising" about it's origins & to categorically state that you know who did a particular song first is shall I say without trying to be offensive, sounds more dubious than any wikipedia page. There is also some references that link it it to heavy drinking & that black betty refers to a type of bottle. So basically I don't think anyone really knows. Although given that the blues partly originated from traditional songs then I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that it has a long history & no single person invented it.

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Version #3: James Iron Head Baker - Black Betty (1933)



Adelfred, Uploaded on Feb 9, 2010

"Black Betty" (Roud 11668) is a 20th century African-American work song often credited to Huddie "Lead Belly" Ledbetter as the author, though the earliest recordings are not by him. Some sources claim it is one of Lead Belly's many adaptations of earlier folk material;[1] in this case an 18th century marching cadence about a flint-lock musket.
The song was first recorded in the field by U.S. musicologists John and Alan Lomax in 1933, performed a cappella by the convict James Baker (also known as Iron Head) and a group at Central State Farm, Sugar Land, Texas.

The Lomaxes were recording for the Library of Congress and later field recordings in 1934, 1936 and 1939 also include versions of "Black Betty". It was recorded commercially in New York in 1939 for the Musicraft label by blues artist Lead Belly, as part of a medley with two other work songs: "Looky Looky Yonder" and "Yellow Woman's Doorbells".Lead Belly had a long association with the Lomaxes, and had himself served time in State prison farms.

The origin and meaning of the lyrics are subject to debate. Some sources claim the song is derived from an 18th century marching cadence about a flint-lock musket with a black painted stock; the "bam-ba-lam" lyric referring to the sound of the gunfire. Soldiers in the field were said to be "hugging Black Betty". In this interpretation, the musket was superseded by its "child", a musket with an unpainted walnut stock known as a "Brown Bess".

In "Caldwells's Illustrated Combination Centennial Atlas of Washington Co. Pennsylvania of 1876", there is a short section describing wedding ceremonies and marriage customs on page 12. Caldwell describes a wedding tradition where two young men from the bridegroom procession were challenged to run for a bottle of whiskey. This challenge was usually given when the bridegroom party was about a mile from the destination home where the ceremony was to be had. Upon securing prize, referred to as "Black Betty" the winner of the race would bring the bottle back to the bridegroom and his party. The whiskey was offered to the bridegroom first and then successively to each of the grooms friends.

The earliest meaning of "Black Betty" in the United States (from at least 1827) was a liquor bottle.In January 1736, Benjamin Franklin published The Drinker's Dictionary in the Pennsylvania Gazette offering 228 round-about phrases for being drunk. One of those phrases is "He's kiss'd black Betty."

David Hackett Fischer, in his book Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America (Oxford University Press, 1989), states that "Black Betty" was a common term for a bottle of whisky in the borderlands of northern England/southern Scotland, and later in the backcountry areas of the eastern United States.

In an interview conducted by Alan Lomax with a former prisoner of the Texas penal farm named Doc Reese (aka "Big Head"), Reese stated that the term "Black Betty" was used by prisoners to refer to the "Black Maria" — the penitentiary transfer wagon.
-snip-
Here's the lyrics to James Iron Head Baker - Black Betty (given without the bamalam exclamation) as published in the sound file review of this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiCEVl_9-MM , published by mokaey Uploaded on Dec 17, 2008. A commenter credited this version to James Iron Head Baker.

"Oh black betty (x2)
Black Betty where you come from (x2)
Well I come from.....?...
Well I'm going to Corsicana
Black betty what's your number (x2)
750 (x2)
Oh lord (lordy) black betty (x2)
Black betty had a baby (x2)
and the damn thing crazy
ah, she dipped it's head in gravy (x2)
Oh lord black betty (x2)
Black betty where she (you) come from (x4)
Oh lord (lordy) black betty (x2)
Now (oh) the baby had blue eyes (x2)
Well it must have been the captains (x2)
Oh lordy black betty (x2)

lyrics got from blindboyblue take a look at his page if you liked this video."
-snip-
Note: The publisher's review for this sound file includes profanity and the "n word" (fully spelled out). Those portions aren't quoted in this pancocojams post.

I'm not sure which blindboyblue page this publisher is referring to.

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ADDENDUM -
From American Ballads and Folk Songs by John Lomax (originally published: January 1, 1934)
Source: http://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=656

BLACK BETTY
Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bam-ba-lamb,
Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bamhalamb,
Black Betty had a baby,
Bambalamb,
Black Betty had a baby,
Bambalamb.

Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bam-ba-lamb,
Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bam-ba-lamb,
It de cap'n's baby,
Bam-ba-lamb,
It de cap'n's baby,
Bam-ba-lamb.
Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bambalamb,
Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bambalamb,
But she didn' feed de baby,
Bambalamb,
But she didn' feed de baby,
Bambalamb.

Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bamhalamb,
Oh, Lawd, Black Betty,
Bambalamb,
Black Betty, where'd you come from?
Bambalamb,
Black Betty, where'd you come from?
Bambalamb.

Note given on that website with these lyrics: "Black Betty was the whip used in some southern prisons."

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Tuesday, April 26, 2016

Sir Mix-A-Lot's 1992 Hip Hop Record "Baby Got Back" & Its Socio-Cultural Impact

Edited by Azizi Powell

This post showcases Sir Mix-A-Lot's 1992 Hip Hop record "Baby Got Back" with a special focus on how that record influenced society's views on women's bodies. A video of that record is showcased in this post along with selected comments from that video's discussion thread.

Warning- This video contains sexually suggestive lyrics & visuals but no profanity and no explicit sex. As is the case with many YouTube comment threads, a great deal of profanity and sexually explicit language is found in this video's discussion thread.

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-clean-meaning-of-name-becky-in.html http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-clean-meaning-of-name-becky-in.htmlfor the closely related pancocojams post entitled The "Clean" Meaning of The Name "Becky" In African American Culture

The content of this post is presented for socio-cultural, entertainment, and aesthetic purposes.

All copyrights remain with their owners.

Thanks to Sir Mix-A-Lot for the significant and perhaps unexpectedly positive impact that "Baby Got Back" has made in the United States and elsewhere. Thanks to all those who are quoted in this post and thanks to the publisher of this video on YouTube.
-snip-
UPDATE 2020: I consider this post to be Part I of an ongoing pancocojams series about names that are used as referents for certain types of White people in the United States.

Click http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2020/03/why-becky-and-karen-are-used-as.html for Part II for a March 2020 pancocojams post that is Part II of this series. That post is entitled  "Why The Names "Becky" And "Karen" Are Used As Mocking/Insulting Social Referents For Certain Types Of White Females (information & comments)"

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INFORMATION ABOUT SIR MIX A LOT'S "BABY GOT BACK" RECORD
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Got_Back
"Baby Got Back" is a hit song written and recorded by American artist Sir Mix-a-Lot, from his album Mack Daddy. The song samples the 1986 Detroit techno single "Technicolor" by Channel One.

At the time of its original release, the song caused controversy with its outspoken and blatantly sexual lyrics about women, as well as specific references to the female buttocks which some people found objectionable. The video was briefly banned by MTV.[1] "Baby Got Back" has remained popular and even anthemic[2] since it was originally featured on the album Mack Daddy in 1992.

It was the second best-selling song in the US in 1992, behind Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You", with sales of 2,392,000 physical copies that year.[3] In 2008, it was ranked number 17 on VH1's 100 Greatest Songs of Hip Hop.[4]

Synopsis
The first verse begins with "I like big butts and I cannot lie", and most of the song is about the rapper's attraction to large buttocks. The second and third verse challenge mainstream norms of beauty: "I ain't talkin' 'bout Playboy/'Cause silicone parts are made for toys" and "So Cosmo says you're fat/Well I ain't down with that!". Sir Mix-a-Lot commented in a 1992 interview: "The song doesn't just say I like large butts, you know? The song is talking about women who damn near kill themselves to try to look like these beanpole models that you see in Vogue magazine." He explains that most women respond positively to the song's message, especially black women: "They all say, 'About time.'"[5]

In the prelude that opens the song there is a conversation between two (presumably) thin, white valley girls, where one girl remarks to her friend, "Oh, my God, Becky, look at her butt! It is so big [...] She's just so ... black!", to which Sir Mix-a-Lot, representing the African-American subculture's view, says: "You other brothers can't deny" and "Take the average black man and ask him...".[6] However, Sir Mix-a-Lot admits in a later verse that it is not only African-American men who are attracted to curvy women with the lyric "even white boys got to shout", an aspect which was referenced in a retrospective two decades later.[7]"...
-snip-
"Anaconda", a 2014 record by Trinidadian-born American rapper Nicki Minaj samples "Baby Got Back". Whether Minaj's effort was done well or not is a topic of considerable debate in the discussion thread for the Sir Mix-A-Lot video that is found below (and I'm sure elsewhere.)

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SHOWCASE VIDEO
Warning- This video contains sexually suggestive lyrics & visuals but no profanity and no explicit sex. As is the case with many YouTube comment threads, a great deal of profanity and sexually explicit language is found in this video's discussion thread.

Sir Mix A Lot Baby Got Back Best Quality



CHRISONSLOW, Uploaded on Sep 18, 2009
-snip-
Back" here means "booty" (butt). "Baby got back" praises Black women who have big butts.

Click http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/sirmixalot/babygotback.html for the full lyrics to this song.

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SELECTED COMMENTS FROM THIS VIDEO'S DISCUSSION THREAD
As of 4:38 PM when this pancocojams post was being written, there were a total of 8,111 comments to this Sir Mix A Lot "Baby Got Back" video's discussion thread. This compilation documents a very small number of those comments which I think are representative of most of the comments in that discussion. I read a lot of the comments, but not all of them. A number of those comments contained profanity (used as curse words and not as compliments) and/or sexually explicit language. None of those comments are included below, at least not with their full spelling.

These comments are given in relative chronological order based on the year that they were published, with the oldest comments given first (except for responses). However, these comments may not be in consecutive order. I've assigned numbers for referencing purposes only.

I'm most interested in comments that address any socio-cultural impact or implications of the "Baby Got Back" record, including comments about whether this song is racist or objectifies women. I've added a brief editorial comments after a few of these comments.

2013
1. PinkButterfly2020
"this video is about 20yrs old....and it was really a positive confirmation from a black man appreciating how we are naturally shaped....growing up looking at Vogue, Cosmopolitan,Elle magazines etc...those magazines are great but they promoted white women and white shapes...we don't look like that...for the black women who had shapely butts we were told we were fat...and needed to lose weight...we have been told negative things about being black all throughout American history...from the ends of the strands of our hair to the bottom of the souls of our feet..negative things have always been taught about us...so many, many shout outs to Sir Mix a Lot....and even today King Magazine and others,for celebrating black women with our natural God given shapes....."

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2. vanteesomeone
"I forgot all about the start of the video. I love the white girl lip syncing a black girl's impression of a white girl."

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3. Jibriltz
"This is actually quite a good song for a lot of women to boost their self-esteem. Hear me out - he raps about Cosmo calling women with curves fat and how he is apparently not down with that. Neither am I. And if you were wondering if my girlfriend has the butt - Hell yeah!"

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4. mechanoid2k
"Yeah believe it or don't many hip hop songs from the early days had positive messages"

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5. hehustle2009
"We all have that one song that brings out our emotions. As soon as we hear it, everything in our mind, spirit, and soul just pours out. These songs have meaning and they have an impact on our very being. With that being said (I'm very emotional right now), thank you for your contribution to society Sir Mix-A-Lot........*wipes tear*"
-snip-
I'm not sure if this commenter is being facetious or not. Be that as it may, I think that Sir Mix-A-Lot positively impacted society with the song "Baby Got Back".

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6. CelciaSnow
"Funny how this is a lot cleaner than today's rap music videos... and back then they considered THIS obscene!"

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7. Forza Huskers
"Isn't it amazing how a song that was fairly risqué in its day seems pretty tame by today's standards? Clever video, too. I love the Josephine Baker reference."

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8. greasedog
"It wasn't too long ago when white folks called the oh so many black and Latina women with ample butts fat. They did it cause most white women don't have it so they dogged it. Sistas have always had bangin bodies to go with their beautiful faces. Thanks to modern surgery and padded pants, white women are trying to have it too."

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Reply
9. cinnamonstar808
"+greasedog
i think alot of white-hispanics get butt jobs. America still prefers the hourglass shape. so many white women will go for more that balance look

White girls do have natural big butt but it all depends where in Europe they are from. Your tribe kinda determine your butt size. the same goes with Africa and Asia people.

Any country that touches the Mediterranean sea or North Africa.. chances are you're gonna have an ample backside.
italy, greece, algeria morocco.. israel etc etc"

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10. Reply
christianne1975
"I'm white, and I work to get my butt round! In high school even a few of my black classmates told me, "You got a black girl's booty." It may not come naturally for me, but with exercise and eating high protein"

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11.greasedog [2014]
"+justtoni1

Notice that I said "most" white women. I never said "all". Just like there are "some" black women and Latinas who don't have any ass. There are exceptions to everything. In general, among white women a plump ass is rare. Among black women and Latinas it's common. Get it? I got one!"

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12. Manga Man
"When white girls start hating about being flat in back"

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13. visa422978
"Such a popular song when it comes to karaoke here and the majority of guys who rap to this are white boys while the white girls enjoy and twerking to this song :D"

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14. Reply
Milos Pinstripe
"It is such a silly song. My neighbors uncle had a karaoke setup for parties and I remember his drunk brother-in-law loved doing this song. We enjoyed watching him too."

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15. Annie McKinnon
"Oh My God Becky! THIS WILL NEVER GET OLD!!!!

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16. randomer24700
"The start xD (black guys' stereotype of white girls)"

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17.BlackBarbie561863
"The Greatest 1 Hit Wonder ."

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18. Reply
gifted1der
"This wasn't Sir Mix A Lot's only "hit". "Posse on Broadway", "My Hooptie", and "Beepers", while nowhere near as commercially successful as "Baby Got Back", were still considered hits on urban radio formats where rap was predominantly played back in the day. He had a huge fan base before "Baby Got Back" crossed over and sold more albums independently than most rappers on major labels sell nowadays."

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19. Vahan Nisanian
"I heard Amy Dorsey does vocals on this song.

Does anyone know how she looks like and does she appear in this video?"

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20. Reply
Ryan James
"Not sure. Was this Amy Dorsey Sir Mix A-Lot's girlfriend? I do know that the intro to this song was in fact spoken by Mix A-Lot's girlfriend at the time. She was a Black/Puerto Rican woman and she was the one who says the "Omg, Becky look at her butt" line. The white girl in this video was just lip synching. "

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21. Ryan James
"Most people who seen this video also think Sir Mix-A-Lot is praising both black women and white women, lol."

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22. Keyser Soze
"Well back when it came out, no, he wasnt praising white women. But ever since the late 90s somehow white women magically started having ass. Some of the best ones ive ever seen have been on white women. Thank god for all the bovine growth hormones theyre putting in food, or whatever the hell it is thats doing it!

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2014
23. Gi Burns
"I remember despairing when I was growing up, because the trend in the 70's was designer jeans and a FLAT PANCAKE ASS. No diet would starve that thing down. The fashion world still lags behind modern tastes - still poisonous to believe a model's proportions are what the world finds beautiful. There's room for us all."

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24. teamoutrage1
"the 90's started the big butt krazz"

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25. LrsLzk
"If someone did a song celebrating characteristics or cultures of white people then it would be deemed racist."

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Reply
26. Michelle J.
"Oh please. The characteristics & culture of white women are celebrated every single day. Just look at fashion magazines, advertisements & television. White women have been put on a pedestal for years & told the are beautiful, pure & delicate while Black women have been told the exact opposite. One song celebrating the sistas and yall wanna start clowning."

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27. Grind Master
"+troodon9999 Oh yea? That was racist? Well this video is clearly, racist, saying white girls don't have butts and blacks have, no how can this be racism right cause only whites can be racist. Yes, I am white and I am proud of it, why should I be ashamed, I didn't choose to be white but still why the f&&k* should I be ashamed."
-snip-
"troodon9999" may have been an earlier screen name for "LrsKzk" or may have been another blogger whose comments was deleted.

*This word is fully spelled out in the comment

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28. LrsLzk
"+spoonabeats She uttered no facts. All just cited off conjecture based purely on her own subjective outlook. Are black people not in magazines, too? Of course they f&&king* are. The only reason that there isn't equal proportion of black/white people in said magazines is because there are more white people living in the west, so naturally there'll be more. Defensive paranoia being spurted to a guy who has nothing against black people what so ever. Good job."
-nip-
*This word is fully spelled out in the comment.

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29. babyEroose
"+LrsLzk Honey in 1992 black people weren't on magazine covers that didn't have a large black consumer base, and for many of the major FASHION magazines (which is what's referenced) it's still a rare occurance when a black woman is on the cover. Sir Mix-a-lot is saying as a black man that he appreciates the body of a fuller figured black woman and doesn't abide by what mainstream America AKA white people find to be a beautiful woman or a beautiful woman's body).

The west (white/european culture) has strongly influenced how we look at each other. They colonized the world and the impact of that is felt in several ways including beauty. Black women today have their looks very seldom celebrated and in many non-white cultures a woman is considered more beautiful when she has "whiter' features. All the "beautiful" hispanic women you see celebrated for their appearance according to the mainstream have lighter skin & light straight hair, even though hispanic people come in all colors. The most popular cosmetic surgery among east Asians is to have their eyes opened wider, and the biggest Asian stars are usually fair skinned. In India Aishwarya Rai is considered this major beauty because she is a Indian woman with light skin and green eyes. There people can be very dark, darker than many black people in the U.S. and that is considered unattractive. One of the most common plastic surgeries for Middle Eastern women is to get nose jobs so that they have thinner smaller noses. And with black American women, who are considered the great beauties here? Halle Berry (half white) , Tyra Banks, Beyonce, Rihanna, Zoe Saldana, Kerry Washington, Nicki Minaj (and that is pretty much the whole list) and what do they have in common? Light skin, light eyes, long silky hair (or weave) or they are biracial so what is inherently beautiful about these women are the features that many black women don't have. When that one dark skinned short haired black actress got People's 50 most beautiful, there was a lot of blow back.

Conversely there are non-black celebrities who are celebrated for having features that are seen on most black women that are extra beautiful b/c its a white lady, light skinned lady with exotic features. The most glaring example of this is Angelina Jolie. Practically every black woman has full lips but somehow that makes Jolie one of the prettiest women ever b/c she is a white woman with big lips.

(p.s. a big ass is not a black feature or characteristic. There are plenty of latin women out there with ass and plenty of country white girls or German girls with booty, but white women were shamed for having bodies like this, especially in the era it was made, again the rationale for this song!) "

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30. Reply
LrsLzk
"+babyEroose You really do have a chip on your shoulder, don't you? I mean typing out a comment that long on a Youtube video titled "Sir Mix A lot Baby Got Back" is both impressive and worrying. Beauty is just a matter of opinion and as the cliché goes, in the eye of the beholder, so don't worry about it. You're mainly talking about how you think ethnic minorities aren't appreciated in the white West (meaning Europe and America), well, perhaps white people aren't found as attractive in the Middle East and Africa etc, where white people are the minority. It's like saying American football isn't very popular/appreciated as much in Europe yet it is loved and revered back in the US.
Anyway, I still think you're being defensive and worrying over nothing. The way you are going on you make it sound as though every black person in the West is single and thought of as universally ugly no matter what; this is of course no where near true."

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31. Reply
babyEroose
"+LrsLzk You say chip, I say educated with my eyes open. Yes I left a long comment b/c I naturally talk a lot and you spent a lot of time and comments defending your position I think you've written just as much. You used comments like black paranoia and that black people are all of over magazines forgetting that when this song was made blacks were NOT as prevalent in mainstream media, nor were they considered (or have ever been considered) the fairest ones of them all. I never said that black women were all single, I said that they seem to only be widely seen as beautiful the less "black" they look. Who decides what bodies and faces are the most beautiful in the U.S.? So yes that is what you are naturally going to see the most of. Completely not defensive but it seems like you are back pedaling a little because maybe in my long comment you realize that I have a point.

I wasn't responding to what's going on in the video I was responding to you and your inability to see the obvious and real discrepencies when it comes to race and beauty and how it is perceived in the U.S. It only took 15 min of my day to write that."

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32. Reply
spoonabeats
"+LrsLzk Your original statement was "If someone did a song celebrating characteristics or cultures of white people then it would be deemed racist." First Michelle told you that white women were celebrated everyday then +babyEroose took the time to explain in more detail. You concede and say well its only because Whites are the majority. So basically your original statement has been refuted, at the very least. Rather than admitting so, you just keep on bit&hing* and attacking character."
-snip-
*This word is fully spelled out in that comment.

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33. Reply
LrsLzk
"+spoonabeats Well then let me rephrase my original statement:
If white characteristics were explicitly and specifically celebrated directly, it would be deemed racist (not in a theoretical, inexplicit and symbolic way that others are stating as being fact, which in itself is debatable). But I do apologise from my heart if I was not clear, English isn't all of our first language, you know?"

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34. Reply
João Luiz
"He likes big butts and he can`t deny it, that`s just that."

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35. Reply
Dave Keays
"Is it a coincidence that all the women with small and unattractive (to him) butts are white in this video? A coincidence in the same way as the divide between management and the black race means nothing. Please decide if those kinds of relationships should be paid attention to or ignored by everybody- don't just dump blame on one race."

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36. Reply
0LolaLola
"+babyEroose http://fabmagazineonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/naomi-campbell-vogue-june-1993.jpg

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37. Reply
babyEroose
"+0LolaLola What's your point here? Showing me Naomi Campbell on the cover of 1993's Vogue issue when this song came out in 1992 doesn't contradict the lyrics of the song or my original comment, which was that it was a rare occurance that black women are on the cover of major magazines. In '93, Vogue had been out for over 100 years and you could count on 1 hand how many black women had been on the cover. Just google 'how many black women have been on the cover of Vogue' and you will see several links talking about how uncommon it is. Last, it still brings back my point in my original comment that looks of black women are usually only widely seen as beautiful when their features are considered "less black". Naomi Campbell is mixed race."

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38. Reply
0LolaLola
"+babyEroose
92 93 who cares it's 1 year difference rollingeyes lol You said there were no black models on covers. Which wasn't true. There were several black Vogue models and at that time only a very small number of models appeared on the cover of Vogue anyhow. Do your research hun, is always a good idea

And Naomi Campbell largely identifies herself as black, as do other black people.

There were tons of black women on covers prior to that. 70s was full of black models on covers and in magazines.

You're welcome rolleyes"

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39. babyEroose
"Read my original comment lolalola. I say that black models were rare and using the same model over and over doesn't count as "plenty of black models" on their covers. Show me the "plenty" btn 1974-92. This originally started with a rap song that came out over 20 years ago talking about how black women aren't shown on major fashion magazines which for the most part was certainly true. You counting the last 20+ years where there has been more diversity doesn't discount the era in which this song was made. I lived through it and I'm telling you black women were poorly represented. You will see twice as many articles discussing the lack of diversity in fashion magazines than you will see diversity on the cover. Black women come in all colors and shades but using the green eyed, straight haired, Campbell as a reference was poor judgement on your part and didn't help your argument. Oh and the rolling eyes thing....stop it that's childish. "

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40. Reply
0LolaLola
"+babyEroose In the 90s there were only a few models who graced the covers of Vogue, it was mainly a rotation of largely the same models. So there wasn't a broad variety there to begin with.

In the 70s black models were not rare.
If one wants to go the route of black models being rare, I think it's interesting to look at a broader picture, not just 90s onwards.

You said there were no black models on Vogue covers in 92 - I took that as early 90s - but there were. I was responding to that.

Everything else is irrelevant to me, as modelling in itself has changed."

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41. Reply
Lunar Rabbot
"+0LolaLola praise the lord! One black-ish model!!! Man what a majority! How many other black models were there during that time? And how many other mags did they sport compared to the white models back then? I'll wait.
She said they were rare not nonexistent, there is a reason they're called tokens."

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42. Reply
GinaR AtlantaRealestate
"It was being celebrated... in magazines, movies, TV, which is why he wrote this song to give props to what HE considered attractive. Now, the rest of the world has caught on since plastic surgery is available."

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43. lat woods
"+babyEroose Brilliant!!!!!!! great points Sister, I am 45 years old and I remember when Sir Mix A Lot release "Baby Got Back" back in 1992, I was a senior in college. I am one of those Brothers who love seeing a beautiful Sister with a big round shapely Booty, you are correct the concept of beauty back then was a white woman with a flat ass and no curves. While most Black men perception of a beautiful woman is a curvy body with a small waist and a big round booty. Videos back then generally used white models, and dancers wish did not appeal to most Brothers, so Sir Mix A Lot decided to make a rap about the beauty of our curvy Sisters, which showed his love and appreciation for our beautiful Black Woman.
"Digg That""

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44. Reply
LrsLzk
"+lat woods "brothers" "sisters"
For damn sake man, talk properly! "

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45. Reply
jjsprite
"LrsLzk Look man the only reason why you have black appreciation is because were underappreciated I'm sure the commenters made that clear to you. Do you really want your history regulated to a month or one channel named after your race? White appreciation in a majority white country is as redundant as it sounds."

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46. Reply
Darnell Hendeason [2015]
"Umm, magazine's like Cosmo and ...well, all of them have be promoting thin, white and blond since forever! They never show a thick dark woman in Cosmo."
-snip-
That comment is the end [to date] of that sub-set of that discussion.

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47. Why Patterns?
"This video may or may not be racist. But it is certainly SEXIST. Picking apart a women's body and dehumanizing women in this way is pretty nasty. Yet this is the logic of capitalist society. People are not human, but rather a collection of commodifiied attributes. Black, Fat, Thick, Busty, Tight, Thin whatever. This has all seeped into our animalistic brains, by which the cynical PR masters have pushed our buttons for a very long time now... I dont want to be a debbie down though, this song has nostalgic appeal for me. Lets call it for what it is, sexist trash."

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48. Reply
Amberdragon
"So just because a man admits he himself likes big butts, it's sexist? He's talking about how magazines are the ones who dehumanize women and illustrate a false sense of beauty. He's saying a woman who is curvy is beautiful too not FAT. Being skinny is healthy but just because a woman is curvy, she's fat. If anyone is sexist it's Nicki Minaj's version. She's telling women, who are skinny, aren't good enough for men. As if ALL men want women who are big and curvy in the right places. If a woman was making a song about men's penises and that she liked them in whatever size, is that considered sexist?"

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49. shaariq jackson
"shes just so black..... wow a little bit of history there .... i finally get this song... sir mix alot wast trying to just describe how he loved a certain part of a females body... he was trying to defend black women.... #Thingsthatmakeyougohmmmm"

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50. JonnyTainment
"Ever since that song came out, a black woman's big butt has become an official symbol of black pride!"

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51. Jeannia Powell
"to the beanpoles dames in the magazines, you ain't it miss thing, give me a sister, I can't resist her, red beans and rice didn't miss her.. oldie but goodie"
-snip-
"Give me a sister, I can't resist her, red beans and rice didn't miss her" are lyrics from "Baby Got Back". "Red beans and rice" are a favorite African American dish (particularly in Louisiana and other parts of the South). "Don't resist her" means that the food doesn't resist being eaten by the sister (i.e. the Black woman).

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52. Deep Night
"This was 1992? 1993? Back then it was in the midst of the Kate Moss "waif" look. Very skinny models were making all the covers of the fashion magazines and extreme dieting was all the hype. I think he was speaking out against having to be very, very thin to be attractive. "

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53. Holly varley
"OH MY GOD BECKY

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54. Reply
asnaes
"Whitest girls ever!"

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55. Reply
Modzie
"+asnaes lily white..xD"

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56. Jason Murray
"Alot of feminists are saying this is a bad video and objectifies women but when you think of it, he is saying that its ok to have a nice and average body because thats what most men like. He actually says, "screw what cosmo says about them flat butts, take the average black man bet he'll say she gotta pack much back". So yeah......."

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57. HoneyT W
"Today those black dancers asses would be considered small. Big, huge and fake is hot now...
I guess i am old because nicki minaj did not "bring me here". Lol, you guys are young if you havent herd this song before nicki minaj"

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58. 662chillin
"Mix just did an interview with Vlad a few days ago explaining why those women were so small. He had much thicker women but the label only kept 3 that he choose.

"Put Em On The Glass" has thicker women than this video (probably his raunchiest video lol) "

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59. bluestrapsify1 year ago
" So Cosmo says you're fat, Well I ain't down wit that" Bravo !!"
-snip-
This comment (with the exception of the word "Bravo") is part of the lyrics to this song.

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60. Eggscape
"Becky wants that glorious ass she's glaring at it so hard xD"

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61. miap
"The opening part with the two white girls is so priceless, love the commentary, just cracks me up!"

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62. John Hart
"WHITE CHICKS HATING.........YEAH BLACK CHIX GOT BACK!"

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63. Lindsay J
"God forbid there be an ode that compliments and pays homage to the naturally beautiful figures of black women. Some will never understand the difference between white supremacy and black power. One represents reigning supreme over another race while the other represents uplifting one's own race. This is not racist. Although this song is a bit chauvinistic, I like it because 1. it's funny and 2. it reassures black women that mainstream beauty is not the only beauty there is. Of course white women are beautiful and many of them have gorgeous figures; it just so happens that this song isn't about them. 2:09"

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2016
64. costin saceanu
"feminists be like: triggered!!"

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65. Reply
strawberryseason
"+costin saceanu Why would feminists dislike a song telling women not to listen to Cosmo propaganda to be a thin rail?"

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66. Reply
nitelite 9
"+strawberryseason Can't understand that either. Maybe they spent too long starving themselves. They need to go get some red beans and rice!"

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67. BeastBoyYesLeviNo
"So Nicki completely ripped this off? Nicki, wowwww...."

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68. Reply
Fernanda Castillo
"she actually asked for permission and he let her. he's actually making profit too"

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69. Esiana Turner
"Becky just mad because she ant got back."

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70. green_ fling
"hen he said 36-24-36 i was like those numbers are way different these days lol 😂
-snip-
" 36-24-36" are measurements for what was considered then the ideal women’s body – an hourglass figure.

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71. Reply
TheMusicGeek
"Back when asses look natural and weren't pumpd full of silicone or hard as a rock with glass. Nice bubble butts that if you have a little weight, squats will work out for you"

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72. Reply
James Laidler
"And he managed not to swear, and I could understand him, and he was quite entertaining."

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