tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post4805313905867399522..comments2024-03-28T07:58:41.643-04:00Comments on pancocojams: Sources Of The Movie Big's Rap Shimmy Shimmy Coco PopAzizi Powellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-13641283945101400352023-12-14T10:43:21.081-05:002023-12-14T10:43:21.081-05:00Hello, Anonymous.
I admit that I didn't know...Hello, Anonymous. <br /><br />I admit that I didn't know about Lou Reed's 1972 Rock song "Walk On The Wild Side" before reading your comment, but I have heard that saying before. If you are referring to the line from that song that goes "And the colored girls say Doo do doo do doo do do doo." I agree with. you that the first part of that line is very similar to population referenced in "the spades go" line.<br /><br />Thanks for your comment!<br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-80416838779325731262023-12-14T09:23:15.222-05:002023-12-14T09:23:15.222-05:00Cool blog! I would have to go with “spades” being ...Cool blog! I would have to go with “spades” being the original version that Hanks’s kid heard at camp, maybe sanitized by scriptwriters. There is a wealth of examples of such racialized terminology in kids rhymes. I’m wondering too if such kids songs may be a reference point for the first line of the chorus to Lou Reed’s “Walk on the Wild Side” since the song is supposed to capture sounds of NYC streets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-18147581829225215082023-07-23T07:26:31.565-04:002023-07-23T07:26:31.565-04:00Anonymous, I took the liberty of quoting your comm...Anonymous, I took the liberty of quoting your comment and my reply in this closely related pancocojams post: The REAL Meanings Of "The Spades Go" & "The Space Go" In Playground Rhymes <a href="http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html" rel="nofollow">http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html</a><br /><br />Thanks again!Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-90540640664928216472023-07-23T06:53:35.023-04:002023-07-23T06:53:35.023-04:00Anonymous, thanks for this comment and thanks for ...Anonymous, thanks for this comment and thanks for going into more detail in your subsequent comment.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-64204605823780927622023-07-23T06:52:36.526-04:002023-07-23T06:52:36.526-04:00Anonymous, thanks for sharing your thoughts about ...Anonymous, thanks for sharing your thoughts about this example of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" and its "the space go" introduction. I appreciate your comments.<br /><br />I didn't know that Tom Hanks had said in an interview that that rhyme came from his son's camp. I agree with you that if the movie writers even knew that the earlier words were "the spades" instead of "the space" , they would have changed those earlier words to avoid that racial meaning.<br /><br />I appreciate your understanding of my motivations for writing and publishing this post.<br /><br />Best wishes.<br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-15630459452930144072023-07-23T00:07:42.413-04:002023-07-23T00:07:42.413-04:00I don't understand how people are getting upse...I don't understand how people are getting upset saying you don't want to admit that you were wrong but how do they even know that you were wrong in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-90032603069755494682023-07-22T23:59:41.884-04:002023-07-22T23:59:41.884-04:00In an interview Tom Hanks said they just wanted so...In an interview Tom Hanks said they just wanted something in the movie and they just got it from his son's camp randomly. It was easy it was catchy. And the interview he also did say space. He did say shalita. But something to think about is a business is not going to want to have controversy so if the real original version did say Spades then it only makes sense for them to change it. Also it's hard to find what the original version did say because chances are it was made up long ago when they didn't write things down or put it on record. I understand somebody did record it but that was obviously after it was made up they were not the first ones to create it. If you take the nursery rhyme Jimmy crack corn it's the same situation where nobody can truly know it's original meaning because it was so long ago. Some say that Jimmy was a black slave others say Jimmy was the white Master falling off his horse. People change the words after time so it doesn't sound so racial. I don't understand why all this hate for this post no matter how old it was just for a person saying that it's their interpretation or research. It doesn't matter what the original script on big was saying the words were, they did not make up the song. If this person hurt it wrong, they have already openly said I could be wrong. But they went into detail about what else they found and where the song came from. There's so many videos about people noticing something that's been around for so long and they're just realizing it's actual use. The Ritz cracker for example. The writer also said in the movie Bigs version. Did not say the original version. When Nelly came out with the song Country Grammar nobody's jumping on him because he changed the words. So what's wrong if the movie changed the words to avoid any racial backlash. What if the camp changed the words for the same reason and Tom Hanks only heard the camps version.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-22491086431584994852023-06-25T10:01:19.762-04:002023-06-25T10:01:19.762-04:00Thanks for your comment Blerb.
I appreciate it a...Thanks for your comment Blerb. <br /><br />I appreciate it and I believe that you are correct. Here's a note that I added to my most recent pancocojams post about "Down Down Baby" ("Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" rhymes. <a href="https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/06/some-examples-of-down-down-baby-shimmy.html" rel="nofollow">https://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2023/06/some-examples-of-down-down-baby-shimmy.html</a>:<br />"There's considerable debate about whether the Tom Hanks character in the movie Big says "the space goes" or "the spades go". (There's also multiple "transcriptions" of this rhyme from that movie, especially regarding the line "Oooo Shalida,walkng down the street". Many of those examples give that line as "Oh, Shelly, walking down the street."<br />My position is that the movie Big version of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" ("Down Down Baby" is a folk processed form of one or more already existing version/s of that rhyme that the writers of that movie had come across. <br /><br />My thoughts about whether that character says "the space goes" ."the spades go" or "the Space Ghost" in that movie have changed over time (I was in the spades go " team for a long time,. This was largely because of what I thought I heard and also because of my awareness of other American children's recreational rhymes that begin with "the spades go", and particularly my awareness of the 1973 example of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa" that begins with "The Blacks go". However, recently I finally was won over to "the space goes" team because I re-listened to that movie clip over and over and over again and was finally convinced that that was what was being said. I never was in the Space Ghost" team." <br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-79628987475699137582023-06-24T21:20:34.653-04:002023-06-24T21:20:34.653-04:00It's "goes" not "go." Whet...It's "goes" not "go." Whether you're hearing space or spades (it's space), the second word is obviously "goes."Blerbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-1370341233075296022023-06-24T19:55:23.966-04:002023-06-24T19:55:23.966-04:00June 24, 2023. I revised the content of this post ...June 24, 2023. I revised the content of this post to reflect the use of the phrase "the space go" instead of "the spades go". <br /><br />I also added the example of the earliest version of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pop" ("Down Down Baby") that I've come across (from a children's rhyme book published in 1973) that begins with the introductory words "The Blacks go". <br /><br />I though that "the spades go" were the words that I heard in that movie because I probably misheard those words "the spades go" in the movie <i>Big</i>'s version of that rhyme and because I read some versions of that rhyme with those words from some people's remembrance of that movie and otherwise. <br /><br />My apologies to all those reading these comments for what I now realize was (probably) my jumping to erroneous conclusions. Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-81079943100201599392021-09-26T02:56:51.207-04:002021-09-26T02:56:51.207-04:00Hello, kb3ojg.
Thanks for your comment. Your theo...Hello, kb3ojg.<br /><br />Thanks for your comment. Your theory about The Great Space Coaster being the reason why he said "space" instead of "spades" in that rhyme is interesting and may be true. <br /><br />That said, I don't think that "rap" needed to be something Josh made up by himself. It could have been relatively unknown around the neighborhood Josh and Billy lived in, but known to other people at the same time.<br /><br />Thanks again for your comment.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-63425474629154615022021-09-26T01:59:11.610-04:002021-09-26T01:59:11.610-04:00Okay.....just gotta mention this.
It is *exceedin...Okay.....just gotta mention this.<br /><br />It is *exceedingly* unlikely that it would be "spades".<br /><br />Infinitely more likely to be "space", for a very simple (but somewhat obscure) reason:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Space_Coaster<br /><br />The time-frame makes sense, given that Josh and Billy are explicitly portrayed as young teens who would have *grown up* watching "the great space coaster".<br /><br />Assuming that Josh is 14 at the time of the film, he would have been:<br /><br />1. Born in 1974<br />2. Between 7 and 12 years of age during the original run of the show.<br /><br />Now, notice something else:<br /><br />Josh *explicitly* uses the "rap" as a way to prove his identity to Billy. (That indicates that it isn't just some weird "schoolyard rhyme" used by other children, but is explicitly something at least comparatively unique to the two of them.<br /><br />Context matters.<br /><br />Just sayin'. kb3ojghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18262054511880274666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-5576979216720159132020-07-17T09:58:10.968-04:002020-07-17T09:58:10.968-04:00Thanks for your comment, Jeremy.Thanks for your comment, Jeremy.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-76133430670684016852020-07-16T15:32:53.667-04:002020-07-16T15:32:53.667-04:00There's a from way back in the day from little...There's a from way back in the day from little anthony & the imperials that's actually shimmy shimmy ko ko bop.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14555194681614556666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-82196525063399220822019-08-11T22:43:56.760-04:002019-08-11T22:43:56.760-04:00Thanks for your comment, Unknown.Thanks for your comment, Unknown.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-74872011883974411712019-08-11T16:54:16.271-04:002019-08-11T16:54:16.271-04:00I appreciated the link someone shared from the scr...I appreciated the link someone shared from the script, since the script is closer to the version I learned than to the transcription given here. I learned “the space goes” and “oo, shalida.” (On the other hand, I also always thought it went “I meant it, I said it.”) I think the version I learned was probably taken straight from the film.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13397542017138322609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-31911143951327538742018-10-10T06:53:42.920-04:002018-10-10T06:53:42.920-04:00I don't know how you are hearing "Shelly&...I don't know how you are hearing "Shelly's out" . Josie Q Has given you the correction, but you stand by what you have already said. You can delete as many posts as you want, but it will never make you right. I do not know what "The space goes" means but you are probably right about it once being "The spades go". But you are definitely wrong about "Shelly's out", "Met/Read it", "Sock me".sicariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01074556730302692086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-25845830109554367622018-06-07T18:04:36.708-04:002018-06-07T18:04:36.708-04:00Irrelevant. We have the original script, and the f...Irrelevant. We have the original script, and the fact that this woman is still going on about it being SPADES just to avoid having admitted she wasted weeks or months or years of her time reading into something based on nothing, because on an erroneous transcription by a nobody, is absolute madness.<br /><br />(Also your teeth meet for a "d" sound more than an "s", but I wouldn't make that point, I would make the one that he's obviously saying GOES and not GO, and "The spades goes" makes no sense.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17840590322919106624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-26730792086824835382018-06-07T17:54:13.256-04:002018-06-07T17:54:13.256-04:00seeing as both the d and s sound are at the same p...seeing as both the d and s sound are at the same place of articulation i dont think you could tell from just watching his lips, they would look identical.TheShrimphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12057391090444718466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-52100874840456909602016-11-03T14:44:47.186-04:002016-11-03T14:44:47.186-04:00Notice: I deleted two additional comments in this ...Notice: I deleted two additional comments in this thread from two different commenters. <br /><br />I recognize that there are disagreements about this subject. But I retain the right to delete comments if I consider that the comments include discourteous language.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-30795199878058229492016-09-20T22:33:39.332-04:002016-09-20T22:33:39.332-04:00http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/Big.pdf
Page 28...http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/Big.pdf<br /><br />Page 28 in the PDF of the draft of the actual script.<br /><br />The space goes... (although I also thought he was singing the intro to The Space Ghost).<br /><br />Upon dozens of repeated watching, his lips definitely never say "spades."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-81674496371468029742016-08-03T14:19:21.511-04:002016-08-03T14:19:21.511-04:00Good good, it's good to pig-headedly refuse to...Good good, it's good to pig-headedly refuse to acknowledge you're wrong simply because you've built a whole stupid theory around something than to admit you're a human who may've made an error.<br /><br />Oh but here, found this!<br /><br />http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/Big.pdf<br /><br />Original scanned script, not just something transcribed by a random person like your link to script-o-rama (seriously, you and that person are the ONLY people in the world who think it says "spades" and not "space"). Page 28.<br /><br />You lose. ^-^Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17840590322919106624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-60379739258552679912016-08-03T11:58:26.291-04:002016-08-03T11:58:26.291-04:00Josie Q, thanks for sharing your opinion.
I stand...Josie Q, thanks for sharing your opinion.<br /><br />I stand by what I've already written on this subject.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-86351317645875639002016-08-03T11:41:19.807-04:002016-08-03T11:41:19.807-04:00It's always been "space," not "...It's always been "space," not "spades," wtf. It's sock YOU in the stomach, and I'm pretty sure "I MEANT it, I said it," all times, never "read" why would it change, why.<br /><br />Also it's a name, either "Shalida" or "Shanida" or something, not "Shelly's out" which it sounds nothing like.<br /><br />What are you even hearing, Jesus. You're going into deep analysis of "spades" when it was never said once in the movie or in the interview. XDAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17840590322919106624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-16743851997250879912016-06-02T11:57:50.954-04:002016-06-02T11:57:50.954-04:00Thanks for your comment, zarbaugh4.
I admit that ...Thanks for your comment, zarbaugh4.<br /><br />I admit that it's possible that the first words to this rhyme in the movie <i>Big</i> could be "The Space Ghost" instead of "the spades go" or "the space goes". But, if so, that doesn't explain the use of "the spades go" or "the space goes" at the beginning of other children's rhymes. <br /><br />Click <a href="http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html" rel="nofollow">http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-real-meaning-of-spades-go-space-go.html</a> for a pancocojams post about those phrases. Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.com