tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post3936461642436015178..comments2024-03-28T07:58:41.643-04:00Comments on pancocojams: A Cultural Critique Of The Song "Shut De Door" (Keep Out De Debil)Azizi Powellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-14267085841061560612021-07-06T16:59:35.832-04:002021-07-06T16:59:35.832-04:00Thanks Pastor Swope for sharing your experience wi...Thanks Pastor Swope for sharing your experience with this song.<br /><br />I'm glad that you and others liked this song. <br /><br />As I indicated in my post, I like it. However, that doesn't detract from the points that I made that the song isn't from the Caribbean although it appears to me that it is presented as though it is from that region of the world or from African Americans.<br /><br />I believe that for the record (no pun intended) it's important to make sure that people are aware of the provenance of this song, whether they agree with my criticisms of the song or not.<br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-78502132016974131222021-07-06T16:09:28.496-04:002021-07-06T16:09:28.496-04:00To be fair I went to a multi-racial, multi-nation ...To be fair I went to a multi-racial, multi-nation and diverse cultural Christian College. The West Africans really liked this song and they sang it along with their own regional songs.Pastor Swopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16008265694116146151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-39239838797586741722019-08-02T10:30:53.815-04:002019-08-02T10:30:53.815-04:00Anonymous, thank you for your comment.
I stand by...Anonymous, thank you for your comment.<br /><br />I stand by what I have written about this song, but I agree with you that my statements are based on one single video clip.<br /><br />As to whether Mr. Stonehill "was a racist who appropriated a culturally specific music genre for the express purpose of disparaging an entire race/culture", those are your words and not mine.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-33891524866850021532019-08-02T09:29:47.016-04:002019-08-02T09:29:47.016-04:00I believe you are missing the point of some of the...I believe you are missing the point of some of the previous comments. We (as a society) cannot look at things from 20, 30, 40 (etc) years ago through the same lenses of today and apply the same judgement to it. I understand your concerns regarding the introduction, but as previously stated, was likely a misguided attempt at getting his audience involved in the show. Particularly without any history of racism. Also as previously stated, other artists of this time frame incorporated this genre of music into their albums and songs and yet no mention of those artists “appropriating” the culture was made. As far as other people assuming it was an old folklore song, you cannot hold Mr. Stonehill responsible for what other people assume unless he specifically made statements alluding to that, which I have been unable to find. Lastly, this entire article and it’s presumptions are based on one single video clip, which is not enough to make the assumption that Mr. Stonehill was a racist who appropriated a culturally specific music genre for the express purpose of disparaging an entire race/culture. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-74706771081857541072017-09-30T11:21:10.680-04:002017-09-30T11:21:10.680-04:00Greetings, Anonymous.
I appreciate your comments....Greetings, Anonymous.<br /><br />I appreciate your comments. <br /><br />I don't know whether the composer of this song is racist or not. My point was that his "banter" as given in this post wasn't culturally sensitive when he made it, and isn't culturally sensitive now. Whether he meant or didn't mean to be disrespectful, in my opinion he was disrespectful and offensive. And I don't think that trying to be funny excuses that.<br /><br />Furthermore, I think that a lot of people believe that Randy Stonehill's song "Shut The Door" is older than 1982. This post- and also presumably Randy Stonehill himself- points out that that isn't true. <br /><br />I certainly understand that people can compose songs <i>in the style of</i> African American Spirituals or traditional Jamaican Spirituals. However, it should be clear that those songs aren't "traditional" (meaning composed in the 19th century).<br /><br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-3253844557042777792017-09-30T02:04:38.997-04:002017-09-30T02:04:38.997-04:00Hello,
I saw your thoughtful post on this song. I ...Hello,<br />I saw your thoughtful post on this song. I remember this song coming out as I followed Christian music back then. Though I am not qualified to speak for anyone, I'll just give my simple opinion. Was Mr. Stonehill disrespectful or outright racist for writing a song like this. Well, no. This was during a time when Caribbean- and Africa-influenced music was very common: the Police, Paul Simon and many more. The subject matter was story from a certain viewpoint -- a common songwriting motif. The song was playful and while, according to today's cultural-sensitivity standards, the banter was not very, shall we say, atuned to 2017, from what I know of the artist, I would not cast aspersions upon his character or reputation. I can certainly understand your feelings and concern, however he has been, as far as I can tell, a reputable entertainer and humanitarian. I looked back at that album and found it pretty robust for what it was. Some light and some heavy songs. Anyway, thanks for you post. I enjoyed reading it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-3394173790776036352017-07-01T11:37:10.659-04:002017-07-01T11:37:10.659-04:00Thanks for your comment, unknown.
I don't kno...Thanks for your comment, unknown.<br /><br />I don't know if Randy Stonehill is or was disdainful of Caribbean music when he composed "Shut De Door". <br /><br />I actually like that song and don't really think its appropriation if a person who isn't from one culture composes a song in the manner of another culture. What I think is problematic is if that person believes leads others to believe that what is composed is an authentic folk song from or an authentic cultural product from that culture. <br /><br />Also, I personally don't like the use of that dialectic English because of the negative connotations that dialect has about Black people.<br /><br />This subject is complicated and I haven't touched on all its ramifications. <br /><br />I appreciate your input. Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-20865190703416533002017-07-01T00:15:32.157-04:002017-07-01T00:15:32.157-04:00I was taught this song in grade school and led to ...I was taught this song in grade school and led to believe it was a spiritual. I'm very surprised to learn that this is not the case! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I think Stonehill's appropriation and apparent disdain for Caribbean and/or Black culture is beyond distasteful. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02501721652222057084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-76275912533346964532015-07-07T11:25:39.231-04:002015-07-07T11:25:39.231-04:00Thanks, Stephen Mager for your comment.
Here'...Thanks, Stephen Mager for your comment.<br /><br />Here's a link to a pancocojams post that I wrote entitled "Singing Spirituals Using 19th Century Black Dialect" <a href="http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/08/why-i-dont-like-use-of-19th-century.html" rel="nofollow">http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2014/08/why-i-dont-like-use-of-19th-century.html</a><br /><br />Here's an excerpt from that post:<br />" I acknowledge that there are different opinions among African Americans and non-African Americans about the appropriateness of using 19th century "Negro dialect"* while singing Spirituals. For some people the question is one of preserving the authenticity of these Spirituals and not "watering them down". However, I'm much more concerned about how 19th century dialectic words may be interpreted as a reflection of the lack of respect for the intelligence and the literacy of African Americans in the past, and in the present. Perhaps if racism wasn't still so very much a factor in the present, I wouldn't be as concerned about how Black people are depicted in our songs. "...<br /><br />I have no problem whatsoever with non-African Americans performing Spirituals or any other genre of Black originated music. After all, Black people perform music from non-Black originated genres. I do have problems with the <i>way</i> any music may be interpreted or performed (for instance blackface and/or stereotypical depictions). <br /><br />I also have problems with people directly claiming or alluding that they or their racial/ethnic group originated a musical genre or a performing art and failing to give the credit to Black people when that credit belongs to people from that race.<br /><br />What is considered offensive changes over time. With regard to 19th century Black dialect in Spirituals and secular folk songs [such as "Shortnin' Bread], I believe that it's very important that people consider the negative connotations of so-called Black dialectic words [such as "dem", "Lawd", and "heben" that they previously may not have given a second thought.<br /><br /><br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-85253947129206503372015-07-06T13:53:07.008-04:002015-07-06T13:53:07.008-04:00Thank you for your research and perspective on thi...Thank you for your research and perspective on this song. I am not a supporter of Contemporary Christian Music, and I first encountered this selection quite by happenstance. My interest in this is in its utility and appropriateness as choral music for church or concert. The points you make are well taken. Perhaps the real problem here is simply Randy Stonehill himself, who seems rather naïve in his good-natured if stereotypical characterization of a culture not his own. <br /><br />However, your observations raise some serious questions. If, as you seem to suggest, the song is unauthentic because its author seeks to emulate a style outside his own racial and cultural identity, does it follow that only African Americans should compose and arrange spirituals, that only Caribbeans of color should compose calypsos? <br /><br />If the use of dialect is the problem, then what of the numerous spirituals arranged by William L. Dawson, Jester Hairston, Rosamond Johnson, Moses Hogan, and many others, whose texts use dialect unabashedly? Shall performers, contrary to Mr. Stonehill’s recommendations, “normalize” the pronunciation, lest they give offense?<br /><br />And does it follow that only the originators of the spirituals or calypsos are qualified to perform the selections in the first place? Have whites any business performing an African American spiritual?<br /><br />This poses a real artistic quandary. In my profession, we prepare and perform music in an effort to be life-giving and life-enhancing. In so doing, we regularly cross cultural borders in a spirit of discovery and an abiding regard for humanity in all of its facets. We cannot speak all languages with equal authenticity, but I suggest that, regardless of our limitations, our desire to do so is a measure of genuine goodwill.<br />Stephen Magerhttp://www.stephenmager.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-89466901672096293882014-01-03T13:23:38.464-05:002014-01-03T13:23:38.464-05:00Let me try that link again
https://www.youtube.co...Let me try that link again<br /><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArAmG7On8Ak" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArAmG7On8Ak</a>Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-72421483426710849142014-01-03T13:22:52.247-05:002014-01-03T13:22:52.247-05:00Greetings, Uumlad.
Thanks for that information ab...Greetings, Uumlad.<br /><br />Thanks for that information about the dancers. Here's the link to that Dance About it iPod Commercial video <a rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArAmG7On8Ak">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArAmG7On8Ak</a><br /><br />Yes, I can see the ear plug necklaces that the dancers are wearing better in that original video. But I was specifically referring to the dancer that appears at around 2:02 or 2:03 of that "Shut de Door" video. I think he's wearing a chain link necklaces. <br /><br />Regardless, it certainly appears to me that those silhouetted dancers are Black and even if they aren't Black they are performing African American originated Hip-Hop dances (and not Caribbean originated dances) though a good case can certainly be made that Hip-Hop in part comes from the Caribbean and some dances that are referred to as Hip-Hop/R&B like the Butterfly are from the Caribbean (but I don't know if those dancers are doing that particular dance).<br /><br />But the points that I tried to make in this post can stand without those sentences about those dancers. <br /><br />And, yes, I was surprised by those remarks Randy Stonehill made before he began singing his admittedly very catchy song. <br /><br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5893219718076521675.post-76994050892504034302014-01-03T09:55:50.234-05:002014-01-03T09:55:50.234-05:00Shocking.
One place I think you missed the mark i...Shocking.<br /><br />One place I think you missed the mark is when you wrote the following:<br /><i> It should also be noted that in the beginning of Randy Stonehill's singing this song, silhouette images of people dancing [Black people?] in a Hip-Hop fashion. The people are wearing necklaces. At least one man is wearing a large chain link necklace, a style that was popular among African American Hip-Hop music lovers. </i><br /><br />The silhouettes are actually from Apple's highly successful iPod commercials from the mid-2000s. Specifically, they ripped off portions of this commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArAmG7On8Ak<br /><br />There, you can see that the necklaces are actually the white ear-bud style earphones that were made iconic by the then-only-available-in-white iPod.Umludhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09975670307431521495noreply@blogger.com